Mayweather to Dictate Drug Testing Terms for Mosley Fight

[Alaskanredman]

I didn't even want to post anything in here cause 75% of this post is Buk ranting, but I had to talk about the Valero thing. The guy isn't even a Welter Weight and he hasn't even been proven as a good/great Light Weight. Now he is a high Profile fighter.... to who? I'm all into this boxing shit and I've only seen him fight 3 times and he wasn't fighting any top guys...

 

[Zeferino]

I didn't even want to post anything in here cause 75% of this post is Buk ranting, but I had to talk about the Valero thing. The guy isn't even a Welter Weight and he hasn't even been proven as a good/great Light Weight. Now he is a high Profile fighter.... to who? I'm all into this boxing shit and I've only seen him fight 3 times and he wasn't fighting any top guys...

So fucking predictable. I knew that was next. Now Valero is not a high profile fighter. Ok. I guess Floyd Mayweather is the only high profile fighter on the planet.

 

[Zeferino]

Valero is high profile. Who has he fought to be high profile? He is another hungry nigga(who most people don't know) trying to get a big payday....

Well who is high profile then according to you? What is your special definition of high profile?

 

[Zeferino]

I didn't even want to post anything in here cause 75% of this post is Buk ranting, but I had to talk about the Valero thing. The guy isn't even a Welter Weight and he hasn't even been proven as a good/great Light Weight. Now he is a high Profile fighter.... to who? I'm all into this boxing shit and I've only seen him fight 3 times and he wasn't fighting any top guys...

You're all into this boxing shit? You don't even have cable television and were on here begging some guy to send you video files of the fights. You watch grainy clips of boxing on youtube and then want to pretend you're some kind of hardcore fan. You've probably never even been to a live fight or haven't even been within 5000 feet of a boxing ring.

For your information, Valero did fight a top guy in Vicente Mosquera. Mosquera dropped Valero and took Valero into the 10th round for the first time before being stopped. If you don't think Mosquera was a top fighter, look at what he did to Yodsanan Sor Nanthachai before losing to Valero. Nanthachai was a bad ass and was able to walk through Stevie Forbes' slickness and just put a beatdown on him. And this was back when Forbes was Forbes. Mosquera bounced Nanthachai off the canvas multiple times and was extremely slick. Mosquera easily landed on Valero from the southpaw stance but was very cocky a la Mayorga and ate unnecessary punches that eventually wore him down. You have some nerve getting on here trying to pretend you're a fan of boxing when you don't even watch the fights. That's why the only thing it seems you know about is your favorite fighter, Floyd Mayweather, and according to you it's unfathomable that anyone could ever beat him. You're not into boxing, you're into your favorite fighter.

 

[Zeferino]

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/boxing/upcoming_bouts_help_ease_pain_of_X8GxWGXaB7hmW94EUIGsjP

Hopkins on PED's? Also, even Schaefer backing off all the PED nonsense.

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Different circumstances but it's all the same to me. I think Pac is so big now that he'd need at least two crushing losses in a row against whoever to slip in popularity. Anyway, yet another high profile boxer states he wants to fight Manny without all the testing nonsense: http://www.fightnews.com/?p=37390

You guys that defend Floyd tend to repeat this stuff about now Pac is doomed for not giving in to Mayweather's demands, no one will want to fight him without requiring tests, etc, etc, but all the evidence points to the contrary because in the real world, nobody gives a fuck about the allegations. The fans want big fights and the fighters want to make as much money as they can against whoever.

It might be the same to you but it's not, that's just how you want to see it, whatever really happened be damned. Pacquiao doesn't have the crossover like an Oscar to get beat and still be a "superstar" to more casual fans. More hardcore fans, like all of us on this thread, will still like and pay to see him fight big name fighters but he will lose some appeal if he loses to Clottey.

I won't say he's doomed but I've said he limited his options by committing to welterweight. His not submitting to random testing will limit who he fights since he will be asked to do so against GB fighters, limiting his options further. But I see him getting a fight with Margarito and maybe Andre Berto.
His timing's just off. He decides to fight at welter when the depth is now at light and jr. welter.

 

[TJervey]

It might be the same to you but it's not, that's just how you want to see it, whatever really happened be damned. Pacquiao doesn't have the crossover like an Oscar to get beat and still be a "superstar" to more casual fans. More hardcore fans, like all of us on this thread, will still like and pay to see him fight big name fighters but he will lose some appeal if he loses to Clottey.

I won't say he's doomed but I've said he limited his options by committing to welterweight. His not submitting to random testing will limit who he fights since he will be asked to do so against GB fighters, limiting his options further. But I see him getting a fight with Margarito and maybe Andre Berto.
His timing's just off. He decides to fight at welter when the depth is now at light and jr. welter.

I have to disagree to a point concerning Manny's crossover appeal. While he may not have the Iconic appeal Oscar has (I don't thing ANY fighter has it to that degree), I don't believe a simple loss will effect his status that much. Say, for example, he loses to Clottey in a very close, hard fought fight...while it will have some impact, I still believe it's the way he loses more than IF he loses. To get dominated and knocked out, that would have a huge impact on ANY fighter, Floyd, Manny, it damn sure did on Oscar...that's a big reason why he retired as well. There was no coming back from the way Manny beat him! He sort of survived the Floyd loss, but Manny DOMINATED him. He was no longer considered a TOP contender due to HOW he lost.

Also, I agree with his limited options committing to Welterweight, but I also seeing that commitment being adjusted once he realizes how limited his options are. I was talking to one of my Boys about this and he made a unique prospective on this Welterweight commitment, speaking to the fact that this may be an indication of PED use as well since it would be VERY difficult to cut weight effectively if the weight gain and strength gains were a result of PED's. That is actually a point of contention in conversation concerning RJJ's rapid fall from grace once he decided to 'Drop' back down to Light Heavy to fight Tarver. When Dude moved up to HW, he was a physical monster!!!! Didn't lose any muscle tone or anything, sort of how swollen Manny has become!!!! It does offer a question though, since Dude has come up so much in his career, and a lot of his big money options are still south of WW!?!?!? A Valero fight in Mexico or the Phillipines would be HUGE!!!!

As far as Valero, I agree with the 'high' profile fighter thing to a point, but it is unfair to discount him because 'nobody' knows about him?!?!? He is in an unfortunate situation where he cannot get Sanctioned to fight in the states, but don't get it twisted, Dude is a legitimate challenge to anyone withing 5 pounds either way of his weight class!!!

 

[Zeferino]

I have to disagree to a point concerning Manny's crossover appeal. While he may not have the Iconic appeal Oscar has (I don't thing ANY fighter has it to that degree), I don't believe a simple loss will effect his status that much. Say, for example, he loses to Clottey in a very close, hard fought fight...while it will have some impact, I still believe it's the way he loses more than IF he loses. To get dominated and knocked out, that would have a huge impact on ANY fighter, Floyd, Manny, it damn sure did on Oscar...that's a big reason why he retired as well. There was no coming back from the way Manny beat him! He sort of survived the Floyd loss, but Manny DOMINATED him. He was no longer considered a TOP contender due to HOW he lost.

Also, I agree with his limited options committing to Welterweight, but I also seeing that commitment being adjusted once he realizes how limited his options are. I was talking to one of my Boys about this and he made a unique prospective on this Welterweight commitment, speaking to the fact that this may be an indication of PED use as well since it would be VERY difficult to cut weight effectively if the weight gain and strength gains were a result of PED's. That is actually a point of contention in conversation concerning RJJ's rapid fall from grace once he decided to 'Drop' back down to Light Heavy to fight Tarver. When Dude moved up to HW, he was a physical monster!!!! Didn't lose any muscle tone or anything, sort of how swollen Manny has become!!!! It does offer a question though, since Dude has come up so much in his career, and a lot of his big money options are still south of WW!?!?!? A Valero fight in Mexico or the Phillipines would be HUGE!!!!

As far as Valero, I agree with the 'high' profile fighter thing to a point, but it is unfair to discount him because 'nobody' knows about him?!?!? He is in an unfortunate situation where he cannot get Sanctioned to fight in the states, but don't get it twisted, Dude is a legitimate challenge to anyone withing 5 pounds either way of his weight class!!!

As far as Valero, I'm not too big on him but I do find him overrated whether justified or not. When I say overrated, it's just because he hasn't been allowed to mix it up with the more well known quality fighters out there save one, Vicente Mosquera, and Mosquera would only be known by the very most hardcore fans out there. I think it's amazing how famous Valero is in spite of not being sanctioned to fight in the states for so long. He is very respected in most boxing circles.

As far as Jones, Pac, and the PED's. I've never been a big fan about speculating that someone is guilty of cheating just because they "look" guilty. However, I will admit that I have suspicions about that Cris Cyborg chick. Anyway, as far as moving up and losing muscle tone, why mention Pac and not Mayweather? For the past few weeks there have been articles with comparison tables where they put Mayweather and Pac's ages and weights over the years and the rise in weight has been virtually identical. The last time I saw Mayweather, he was just as ripped as Pac and he hasn't lost any speed at all. Maybe Pac takes guys out in more exciting fashion but that's just a matter of styles. Just because Pac is knocking guys out and Mayweather decides to peck and shoulder roll does not mean Pac is juicing and Mayweather is not. What if Pac decided to change his style and peck at guys from the outside instead of stepping to them and trying to bang them out? Would that mean he was not juicing anymore?

Also, sure options have surged for Pac at 140lbs but the biggest money fights in boxing were against Oscar, Mayweather, and even Mosley and Margarito, and shit even Cotto, all at 147. Why wouldn't Pac move to 147lbs? Do you guys really think Pac was running from Nate Campbell and Paulie Malignaggi at 140? I don't.

Furthermore, I fail to see why 135 and 140 should be considered deeper divisions than 147. Maybe it is but I just don't see it. Juan Diaz fell off. Campbell fell off. Casamayor fell off. Malignaggi is a bum. Valero just arrived. Bradley's just getting known. Devon Alexander is still virtually anonymous and Khan is just coming up. The best guys at 140 will probably end up at 147 anyway.

 

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

I didn't even want to post anything in here cause 75% of this post is Buk ranting, but I had to talk about the Valero thing. The guy isn't even a Welter Weight and he hasn't even been proven as a good/great Light Weight. Now he is a high Profile fighter.... to who? I'm all into this boxing shit and I've only seen him fight 3 times and he wasn't fighting any top guys...

I can't answer for anyone but myself. And I could not care one way or another why you post or don't. This PED in boxing is an interesting story. I'm interested in discussing it. You and a few dudes can not stop mentioning me. Get me out your mind. Hell, you that sensitive to my post I beg you to put me on your ignore list. Quit acting like a child and more like the man I assume you are online. lol, crying about not wanting to post in this thread. funny ass bgol shit.

 

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

Schaefer is backing off now cause he has one fighter that has been proven to use PED's and now another fighter people are asking questions about because he is 45 and still looks great in the ring. And wit both of them being gbp fighters he has no reason but to act in the manner he did not with manny.

drg testing seems like some silly to be discussed when there alread is a standard for doing the test. But PBF does what he wants. We lost a great fight because of that. I hope if they try to make it again he talks like jones is.

 

[TJervey]

As far as Valero, I'm not too big on him but I do find him overrated whether justified or not. When I say overrated, it's just because he hasn't been allowed to mix it up with the more well known quality fighters out there save one, Vicente Mosquera, and Mosquera would only be known by the very most hardcore fans out there. I think it's amazing how famous Valero is in spite of not being sanctioned to fight in the states for so long. He is very respected in most boxing circles.

As far as Jones, Pac, and the PED's. I've never been a big fan about speculating that someone is guilty of cheating just because they "look" guilty. However, I will admit that I have suspicions about that Cris Cyborg chick. Anyway, as far as moving up and losing muscle tone, why mention Pac and not Mayweather? For the past few weeks there have been articles with comparison tables where they put Mayweather and Pac's ages and weights over the years and the rise in weight has been virtually identical. The last time I saw Mayweather, he was just as ripped as Pac and he hasn't lost any speed at all. Maybe Pac takes guys out in more exciting fashion but that's just a matter of styles. Just because Pac is knocking guys out and Mayweather decides to peck and shoulder roll does not mean Pac is juicing and Mayweather is not. What if Pac decided to change his style and peck at guys from the outside instead of stepping to them and trying to bang them out? Would that mean he was not juicing anymore?

Also, sure options have surged for Pac at 140lbs but the biggest money fights in boxing were against Oscar, Mayweather, and even Mosley and Margarito, and shit even Cotto, all at 147. Why wouldn't Pac move to 147lbs? Do you guys really think Pac was running from Nate Campbell and Paulie Malignaggi at 140? I don't.

Furthermore, I fail to see why 135 and 140 should be considered deeper divisions than 147. Maybe it is but I just don't see it. Juan Diaz fell off. Campbell fell off. Casamayor fell off. Malignaggi is a bum. Valero just arrived. Bradley's just getting known. Devon Alexander is still virtually anonymous and Khan is just coming up. The best guys at 140 will probably end up at 147 anyway.

I feel you Dude, and I am as big an antagonist of PBF and his Fans as anybody, but while moving up in weight, PBF has NOT been ambushing Dude's and fucking them up like Manny!!! Manny is Hulk smashing Dudes which while not impossible, is definitely suspect when you consider he wasn't lighting Dudes up like this when he was at the lighter weights!?!?!?! Plus, he's fucking up Dude's who have been hit by some Monster punchers, Oscar, Cotto, etc. I'm just saying...

 

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

I feel you Dude, and I am as big an antagonist of PBF and his Fans as anybody, but while moving up in weight, PBF has NOT been ambushing Dude's and fucking them up like Manny!!! Manny is Hulk smashing Dudes which while not impossible, is definitely suspect when you consider he wasn't lighting Dudes up like this when he was at the lighter weights!?!?!?! Plus, he's fucking up Dude's who have been hit by some Monster punchers, Oscar, Cotto, etc. I'm just saying...

well the pacquiao fighter I usually talk about has 50 wins and 38 by knockout. that would suggest he has been knocking people out more than not when he wins.

won 50 (KO 38) + lost 3 (KO 2) + drawn 2 = 55
rounds boxed 305 KO% 69.09

 

[TJervey]

well the pacquiao fighter I usually talk about has 50 wins and 38 by knockout. that would suggest he has been knocking people out more than not when he wins.

won 50 (KO 38) + lost 3 (KO 2) + drawn 2 = 55
rounds boxed 305 KO% 69.09

All those stats are cool, but...A lot of those were against lesser competition...at Much Lower weight classes!!! Again, not saying it's impossible, but to not only carry power to higher weight classes, but to appear to get stronger, AND to fuck up Dude's who are accustomed to getting hit by bigger Dudes.... I'm saying...

 

[Alaskanredman]

You're all into this boxing shit? You don't even have cable television and were on here begging some guy to send you video files of the fights. You watch grainy clips of boxing on youtube and then want to pretend you're some kind of hardcore fan. You've probably never even been to a live fight or haven't even been within 5000 feet of a boxing ring.

For your information, Valero did fight a top guy in Vicente Mosquera. Mosquera dropped Valero and took Valero into the 10th round for the first time before being stopped. If you don't think Mosquera was a top fighter, look at what he did to Yodsanan Sor Nanthachai before losing to Valero. Nanthachai was a bad ass and was able to walk through Stevie Forbes' slickness and just put a beatdown on him. And this was back when Forbes was Forbes. Mosquera bounced Nanthachai off the canvas multiple times and was extremely slick. Mosquera easily landed on Valero from the southpaw stance but was very cocky a la Mayorga and ate unnecessary punches that eventually wore him down. You have some nerve getting on here trying to pretend you're a fan of boxing when you don't even watch the fights. That's why the only thing it seems you know about is your favorite fighter, Floyd Mayweather, and according to you it's unfathomable that anyone could ever beat him. You're not into boxing, you're into your favorite fighter.

I don't have show time there is a difference and I try to get most of those fights off the internet or go to a homies crib and watch it.... Mosquera is one of the top light weights? What about Casamayor, Márquez, Campbell, Diaz, Malignaggi.... and if he wants to move up for Manny... fight Bradley, Khan or one of them niggas at super light weight to prove yourself. Talk boxing to someone who doesn't watch it much and any of those niggas and they might have an idea but then ask them about Valero....This nigga Valero hasn't prove himself against these type of niggas and your claiming he's high profile. What the fuck... yes the nigga got hype. I like the nigga's style and would like see how he would do against Manny, but to say he's high profile is nuts.

 

[Alaskanredman]

A Valero fight in Mexico or the Phillipines would be HUGE!!!!

As far as Valero, I agree with the 'high' profile fighter thing to a point, but it is unfair to discount him because 'nobody' knows about him?!?!? He is in an unfortunate situation where he cannot get Sanctioned to fight in the states, but don't get it twisted, Dude is a legitimate challenge to anyone withing 5 pounds either way of his weight class!!!

I think the dude is a fighter to give props to for his skills, but has he been challenged by the top light weights? no. Could he fare well against them? probably. But is he high profile? no.

 

[Alaskanredman]

Also, sure options have surged for Pac at 140lbs but the biggest money fights in boxing were against Oscar, Mayweather, and even Mosley and Margarito, and shit even Cotto, all at 147. Why wouldn't Pac move to 147lbs? Do you guys really think Pac was running from Nate Campbell and Paulie Malignaggi at 140? I don't.

Furthermore, I fail to see why 135 and 140 should be considered deeper divisions than 147. Maybe it is but I just don't see it. Juan Diaz fell off. Campbell fell off. Casamayor fell off. Malignaggi is a bum. Valero just arrived. Bradley's just getting known. Devon Alexander is still virtually anonymous and Khan is just coming up. The best guys at 140 will probably end up at 147 anyway.

I've been hearing about Valero since '05/'06, but the nigga got holes is his game that I see Casamayor or Marquez exposing at light weight. He can fight Khan, Alexander, Campbell, Diaz etc. to make his mark and then we can talk about him as "high profile", until then his is like a lot of nigga trying to make a name for himself. Oh, by the way you've proved my point.... How does beating a skilled nigga that no one outside of hardcore fans even knows about make you high profiled?

 

[TJervey]

I've been hearing about Valero since '05/'06, but the nigga got holes is his game that I see Casamayor or Marquez exposing at light weight. He can fight Khan, Alexander, Campbell, Diaz etc. to make his mark and then we can talk about him as "high profile", until then his is like a lot of nigga trying to make a name for himself. Oh, by the way you've proved my point.... How does beating a skilled nigga that no one outside of hardcore fans even knows about make you high profiled?

Truthfully, at this stage, I'd give Valero the nod against Casamayor, who is a shell of his former self and cannot make weight anymore, and I'd have him as a pick em with Marquez. The thing is, I look at the High Profile Debate the same way I look at this Pound for Pound nonsense...all opinion. High profile is primarily based on your promoter and their ability to market you...a lot of High Profile Fighters are overrated and are exposed when their level of competition increases. EVERY fighter has holes, but its being able to play to your strengths that make you and I don't see a whole lot at 140 to expose him. Am I saying he can't be beat, definitely not, but...I only see two maybe 5 fighters I'd say he would have serious issues with, Bradley, Alexander, Malinnagi, and Marquez. Outside of that, I see a lot of the younger ones like Alexander staying the hell away from Dude for a while.

 

[Alaskanredman]

Truthfully, at this stage, I'd give Valero the nod against Casamayor, who is a shell of his former self and cannot make weight anymore, and I'd have him as a pick em with Marquez. The thing is, I look at the High Profile Debate the same way I look at this Pound for Pound nonsense...all opinion. High profile is primarily based on your promoter and their ability to market you...a lot of High Profile Fighters are overrated and are exposed when their level of competition increases. EVERY fighter has holes, but its being able to play to your strengths that make you and I don't see a whole lot at 140 to expose him. Am I saying he can't be beat, definitely not, but...I only see two maybe 5 fighters I'd say he would have serious issues with, Bradley, Alexander, Malinnagi, and Marquez. Outside of that, I see a lot of the younger ones like Alexander staying the hell away from Dude for a while.

The thing is I think you got a grasp of what high profile means... This nigga jump out there with Valero as high profile and Valero would love to have the exposure of a Diaz or Malinaggi. Right now the beef between us (not you specifically but the boxing heads) is at the point of who can one up the other with the bigger fights between Pac and Mays.

Pac and Valero may be a good fight, but Pac will be the draw... pulling the numbers. It couldn't compete if it was up against Mays verse Berto. Plus, unless Valero wins, I view it like throw pitbull in with a Lion because the nigga hasn't been tested against a GREAT lightweigh and he get's thrown in there with a nigga who is eating Welters for brunch.

 

[Zeferino]

The thing is I think you got a grasp of what high profile means... This nigga jump out there with Valero as high profile and Valero would love to have the exposure of a Diaz or Malinaggi. Right now the beef between us (not you specifically but the boxing heads) is at the point of who can one up the other with the bigger fights between Pac and Mays.

Pac and Valero may be a good fight, but Pac will be the draw... pulling the numbers. It couldn't compete if it was up against Mays verse Berto. Plus, unless Valero wins, I view it like throw pitbull in with a Lion because the nigga hasn't been tested against a GREAT lightweigh and he get's thrown in there with a nigga who is eating Welters for brunch.

What are you talking about? The guy said high profile is a matter of opinion. He didn't say your opinion was right or wrong or that your opinion is the DEFINITION. In my opinion, Valero is high profile. For me, at this point Valero is more likely to headline a card rather than be the first fight on some 3 fight undercard. Justified or not, Valero has almost legendary status with the way he has been hyped and he has attained this barely even fighting in the United States. Two more fights like the last one and they will be putting this guy on the pound for pound list and hyping him like crazy. HBO definitely wants a piece of Valero because Valero is marketable in a couple of different way. The guy looks like a savage little cannibal.

Anyway, I agree with Tjervey that high profile is less about accomplishment and more about promotion, if that's what he meant. Even fukkin Butterbean was high profile and he never fought anybody.

 

[Zeferino]

I've been hearing about Valero since '05/'06, but the nigga got holes is his game that I see Casamayor or Marquez exposing at light weight. He can fight Khan, Alexander, Campbell, Diaz etc. to make his mark and then we can talk about him as "high profile", until then his is like a lot of nigga trying to make a name for himself. Oh, by the way you've proved my point.... How does beating a skilled nigga that no one outside of hardcore fans even knows about make you high profiled?

Casamayor isn't exposing shit but his own age at this point. Marquez's trainer, Beristain, doesn't even want to match Marquez with Khan because he said he doesn't want Marquez to become a stepping stone. He said he wants Marquez to fight someone relatively easy and then retire. Beristain said this just this week. In light of that, do you think they want to throw Marquez in with Valero? I don't.

I never said that Valero's victory over Mosquera made him high profile. You said he never fought anyone good and I responded to that. Regarding the rest of what you said, Butterbean never fought anyone good that the fans knew about and he was high profile. Arturo Gatti never beat any A level fighter that I can recall and he was popular and high profile as fuck. Tommy Morrison got his ass beat all the time and was high profile too.

 

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

Entertaining stuff.

 

[Alaskanredman]

What are you talking about? The guy said high profile is a matter of opinion. He didn't say your opinion was right or wrong or that your opinion is the DEFINITION. In my opinion, Valero is high profile. For me, at this point Valero is more likely to headline a card rather than be the first fight on some 3 fight undercard. Justified or not, Valero has almost legendary status with the way he has been hyped and he has attained this barely even fighting in the United States. Two more fights like the last one and they will be putting this guy on the pound for pound list and hyping him like crazy. HBO definitely wants a piece of Valero because Valero is marketable in a couple of different way. The guy looks like a savage little cannibal.

Anyway, I agree with Tjervey that high profile is less about accomplishment and more about promotion, if that's what he meant. Even fukkin Butterbean was high profile and he never fought anybody.

Maybe I don't get it....I read tjervey's post to mean who is determined to be high profiled or on the P4P is all based on opinion. That does not mean that these terms don't have an independent meaning and that's what I was talking about...

 

[Alaskanredman]

Casamayor isn't exposing shit but his own age at this point. Marquez's trainer, Beristain, doesn't even want to match Marquez with Khan because he said he doesn't want Marquez to become a stepping stone. He said he wants Marquez to fight someone relatively easy and then retire. Beristain said this just this week. In light of that, do you think they want to throw Marquez in with Valero? I don't.

I never said that Valero's victory over Mosquera made him high profile. You said he never fought anyone good and I responded to that. Regarding the rest of what you said, Butterbean never fought anyone good that the fans knew about and he was high profile. Arturo Gatti never beat any A level fighter that I can recall and he was popular and high profile as fuck. Tommy Morrison got his ass beat all the time and was high profile too.

Valero defense is shit and if a slick vet like a Casamayor or Maquez could get the timing right... I can see them given him problems. That is my opinion and I doubt that I will see either one of them take a risk unless there's one last big payday involve.

If you actually read my post I said to who did he fight(not even beat) to be high profile and you talked about Mosquera. The thing is we understand that part of being high profiled is to be well known. The easiest way to become known in boxing is to fight someone well known and thus you get exposure. Other ways boxers have become well known is threw a gimmick or promotion. Butter Bean was a really big guy named "Butter Bean" that was fucking niggas up. Gatti was bummy guy who could take a beating and in a lot of cases.. he would come back and hurt the bum he was fighting.

Now that we have talked about those things... in what way has Valero become high profile. If you want to test this ask random people on the street about Valero and see how many people know about him.

 

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

All those stats are cool, but...A lot of those were against lesser competition...at Much Lower weight classes!!! Again, not saying it's impossible, but to not only carry power to higher weight classes, but to appear to get stronger, AND to fuck up Dude's who are accustomed to getting hit by bigger Dudes.... I'm saying...

if you take some time and look at his record he has been consistent. he was great in the begining of his career. but he had power. he knocked people out and got noticed. they say power is the last thing to go in a fighter. moct fighters back in the day were not tained to move up like fighters today. science and the knowledge of the human body is way far advance now than when say Ali was fighting. I don't even think lifting was encouraged until evander hooked up with haney. this is a different world. football, basketball, baseball players are all bigger and stronger. Boxing is no different. i mean barkely was on something and he was a small power forward dominating big men. Tyson wasn't omn something either. sometimes special people do special things. Hell MJ was a better player as he got older. you know what i'm saying?

 

[Zeferino]

Valero defense is shit and if a slick vet like a Casamayor or Maquez could get the timing right... I can see them given him problems. That is my opinion and I doubt that I will see either one of them take a risk unless there's one last big payday involve.

If you actually read my post I said to who did he fight(not even beat) to be high profile and you talked about Mosquera. The thing is we understand that part of being high profiled is to be well known. The easiest way to become known in boxing is to fight someone well known and thus you get exposure. Other ways boxers have become well known is threw a gimmick or promotion. Butter Bean was a really big guy named "Butter Bean" that was fucking niggas up. Gatti was bummy guy who could take a beating and in a lot of cases.. he would come back and hurt the bum he was fighting.

Now that we have talked about those things... in what way has Valero become high profile. If you want to test this ask random people on the street about Valero and see how many people know about him.

Ok. I'll take you up on that. I will be making a trip to Venezuela next week and I will do just that. Then we'll see whose right.

 

[Alaskanredman]

Ok. I'll take you up on that. I will be making a trip to Venezuela next week and I will do just that. Then we'll see whose right.

While you are down there ask them about Juan Diaz too and then when your back here try that test again..... Then you will see the difference.

Now that I allowed myself to get stuck in the matrix of another pointless conversation I rather leave this thread to Buk so he complain about those evil Mayweathers who are trying tarnish Pacquiao's noble legacy.

 

[TJervey]

if you take some time and look at his record he has been consistent. he was great in the begining of his career. but he had power. he knocked people out and got noticed. they say power is the last thing to go in a fighter. moct fighters back in the day were not tained to move up like fighters today. science and the knowledge of the human body is way far advance now than when say Ali was fighting. I don't even think lifting was encouraged until evander hooked up with haney. this is a different world. football, basketball, baseball players are all bigger and stronger. Boxing is no different. i mean barkely was on something and he was a small power forward dominating big men. Tyson wasn't omn something either. sometimes special people do special things. Hell MJ was a better player as he got older. you know what i'm saying?

Dude, you have your opinion and I have mine. Your comparison are ridiculous in that you are comparing oranges to apples. Holyfield was never a middleweight who jumped to heavyweight and physically dominated heavyweights and over powered them, Barkley was never a point guard who moved to power forward and physically dominated them, Tyson was never a light heavyweight who went on to physically dominated heavyweights, MJ didn't migrated to a physically dominant power player, his game always relied on finesse and he added wrinkles to his game as he got older to compensate for his DECREASED physicality. There are marked differences between the athletic evolution of the people you are trying to pull in to the discussion to qualify Manny's ascension. In addition, I am not saying he did or didn't do anything with PED's, what I am saying is, it is extremely against to norm to have your body grown in the manner Manny's has, not only take the power you had north with you but see it INCREASE TREMENDOUSLY AND all of a sudden develop the ability to be IMPERVIOUS to punches of guys who have been and currently are much bigger than the ones you used to fight!! I mean DAMN!!! Dude was knocked down by feather fisted Marquez, but he stands there and LETS Cotto hit him to 'TEST' his power ?!?!?!?! Man please...

Anyway, we have to agree to disagree on this one...

 

[TJervey]

Fam, as much as I live Valero, he is definitely not a High Profile fighter.... Even though he is generating some buzz, it is primarily coming from those in Boxing circles....

The way you determine if a fighter is high profile is the impact he has on the 'secular' or non-boxing world. Just because a fighter makes the cover of THE RING or Boxing Digest doesn't make him high profile. It's when Dudes are on Late Night talk shows, get on ESPN, get on the cover of Time or Sport Illustrated or have articles about them in USA Today or Rolling Stone, some shit like that that you can begin to recognize them as High Profile. When the average Joe is discussing Dude at a Sports Bar when Soccer is playing on the TV, or they are the topic of discussion at the water cooler at work....etc.

Also, Valero will not generate the money that a High Profile fighter would outside of a small segment of the world, i.e. Mexico or the home town of the Dude he's fighting and even then, he won't generate the millions a high profile fighter would.

I think we are confusing High Profile with Skill and Potential. High Profile has nothing to do with how good a fighter is or how many Dude's he's knocked out. To a degree, as good as he is, Shane still needs another High Profile fighter to help carry a major event...that's why he is still fighting on regular HBO at this stage in his career (i.e. Margarito/Cotto..two high profile fighters, fought on PPV, Mosley/Margarito..fought on regular HBO...and this was AFTER Margarito dominated Cotto!!!!), why because Shane wasn't high profile enough to carry a PPV event! Chad Dawson, universally recognized as the top guy at Light Heavyweight, while an tremendously talented fighter, still isn't high profile enough to headline a major PPV, or even headline a successful card OUTSIDE of his home town region of Connecticut. Valero falls to a lesser extent into the category of Shane and Chad, very good, but not high profile.

 

[Alaskanredman]

Fam, as much as I live Valero, he is definitely not a High Profile fighter.... Even though he is generating some buzz, it is primarily coming from those in Boxing circles....

The way you determine if a fighter is high profile is the impact he has on the 'secular' or non-boxing world. Just because a fighter makes the cover of THE RING or Boxing Digest doesn't make him high profile. It's when Dudes are on Late Night talk shows, get on ESPN, get on the cover of Time or Sport Illustrated or have articles about them in USA Today or Rolling Stone, some shit like that that you can begin to recognize them as High Profile. When the average Joe is discussing Dude at a Sports Bar when Soccer is playing on the TV, or they are the topic of discussion at the water cooler at work....etc.

Also, Valero will not generate the money that a High Profile fighter would outside of a small segment of the world, i.e. Mexico or the home town of the Dude he's fighting and even then, he won't generate the millions a high profile fighter would.

I think we are confusing High Profile with Skill and Potential. High Profile has nothing to do with how good a fighter is or how many Dude's he's knocked out. To a degree, as good as he is, Shane still needs another High Profile fighter to help carry a major event...that's why he is still fighting on regular HBO at this stage in his career (i.e. Margarito/Cotto..two high profile fighters, fought on PPV, Mosley/Margarito..fought on regular HBO...and this was AFTER Margarito dominated Cotto!!!!), why because Shane wasn't high profile enough to carry a PPV event! Chad Dawson, universally recognized as the top guy at Light Heavyweight, while an tremendously talented fighter, still isn't high profile enough to headline a major PPV, or even headline a successful card OUTSIDE of his home town region of Connecticut. Valero falls to a lesser extent into the category of Shane and Chad, very good, but not high profile.

Don't worry maybe you will get schooled by Zeferino when he calls you a Floyd nut hugger... The thing I would argue is that Valero isn't even in the same category of a Mosley or Dawson, because the public outside of hardcore fans have an idea who those niggas are. You can have a conversation with a motherfucker who watches boxing every once and a while see the difference, because they don't even know the name Valero.

 

[Zeferino]

Don't worry maybe you will get schooled by Zeferino when he calls you a Floyd nut hugger... The thing I would argue is that Valero isn't even in the same category of a Mosley or Dawson, because the public outside of hardcore fans have an idea who those niggas are. You can have a conversation with a motherfucker who watches boxing every once and a while see the difference, because they don't even know the name Valero.

Oh, now you feel brave now. Last I checked, there isn't a definition of high profile fighter in the dictionary or anywhere. Tjervey's opinion is very strong but I have mine. I still believe that United States is not the center of the universe and that you do not have to be on cereal boxes in the U.S to be considered high profile. I think high profile is usually a highly regarded champion and sometimes contender whether justified or not. For me, even Zab Judah is high profile even though he hasn't really beaten anyone either unless you count Cory Spinks. I see Valero as a highly rated, respected champion on the verge of million dollar purses within his next two fights.

 

[Zeferino]

Fam, as much as I live Valero, he is definitely not a High Profile fighter.... Even though he is generating some buzz, it is primarily coming from those in Boxing circles....

The way you determine if a fighter is high profile is the impact he has on the 'secular' or non-boxing world. Just because a fighter makes the cover of THE RING or Boxing Digest doesn't make him high profile. It's when Dudes are on Late Night talk shows, get on ESPN, get on the cover of Time or Sport Illustrated or have articles about them in USA Today or Rolling Stone, some shit like that that you can begin to recognize them as High Profile. When the average Joe is discussing Dude at a Sports Bar when Soccer is playing on the TV, or they are the topic of discussion at the water cooler at work....etc.

Also, Valero will not generate the money that a High Profile fighter would outside of a small segment of the world, i.e. Mexico or the home town of the Dude he's fighting and even then, he won't generate the millions a high profile fighter would.

I think we are confusing High Profile with Skill and Potential. High Profile has nothing to do with how good a fighter is or how many Dude's he's knocked out. To a degree, as good as he is, Shane still needs another High Profile fighter to help carry a major event...that's why he is still fighting on regular HBO at this stage in his career (i.e. Margarito/Cotto..two high profile fighters, fought on PPV, Mosley/Margarito..fought on regular HBO...and this was AFTER Margarito dominated Cotto!!!!), why because Shane wasn't high profile enough to carry a PPV event! Chad Dawson, universally recognized as the top guy at Light Heavyweight, while an tremendously talented fighter, still isn't high profile enough to headline a major PPV, or even headline a successful card OUTSIDE of his home town region of Connecticut. Valero falls to a lesser extent into the category of Shane and Chad, very good, but not high profile.

Hmm. Good argument. I'm just not convinced with the part about measuring high profile with an ability to headline a PPV. There are so many reasons why fights are not done on PPV. Sometimes, PPV's are done when the matchup is so shitty that even HBO and Showtime won't put up decent money for it. That's why there were these obscure PPV telecasts with Roy Jones and Jeff Lacy and Jones vs Badi, etc. Just because Jones and Lacy were on some obscure PPV together, does that mean they were high profile? I think they are high profile but not because they can or can't headline a PPV. Regardless of whether or not Mosley can headline a PPV, I think he's definitely high profile because he's a recognized major player. You did say Mosley needed "another" high profile fighter for a PPV to happen so you implied that Mosley is indeed high profile just not high profile enough. If the topic is that subjective and that muddied, then high profile is just a matter of opinion. Otherwise, how can you tell if a guy is short profile, high profile enough, too much, high profile level 1, high profile level 2, or whatever.

 

[TJervey]

the Jones fights were PPV because one Roy is high profile and two his promotion company put on the PPV. Also being a major player doesn't make you high profile...it makes you a good fighter.

 

[Zeferino]

the Jones fights were PPV because one Roy is high profile and two his promotion company put on the PPV. Also being a major player doesn't make you high profile...it makes you a good fighter.

What about Juanma Lopez? Do you think he's high profile too? Not being sarcastic, I'm just trying to fully understand your definition of high profile. Juanma Lopez had a PPV against MTagawa or however you spell it.

 

[TJervey]

What about Juanma Lopez? Do you think he's high profile too? Not being sarcastic, I'm just trying to fully understand your definition of high profile. Juanma Lopez had a PPV against MTagawa or however you spell it.

If you want to nit pick on a fighter by fighter basis then have at it. What makes Juan Manuel more high profile than Valero is he has a Network, HBO, behind him promoting him. Again, the definition of High Profile fits more in terms of the visibility of the fighter than the ability of the fighter. Is he more talented than Valero? I cannot say that, but...is he more visible, i.e. more high profile than Valero, Yes!!! Why, because of the network backing he has. Same thing goes for Victor Ortiz. Better fighter, maybe not, more high profile, definitely!!! That's why a fighter like DeLaHoya could have a pay per view against no hopers and sell, where as a fighter like a Mosley, who is a helluva fighter, needs a more high profile fighter like an Oscar, or a Mayweather to sell fights. To a point, initially that was Floyds issue, which is why I believe he needed a Gatti or a DeLaHoya to really sell a major production...were these fighter better than him? No! But they were more High Profile. Now, since he has had his initial dance partners, he is now in the drivers seat of any PPV he is in, but initially he didn't have that type of High Profile pedigree which is why he was fighting on HBO after Dark, Championship boxing, etc. The unfortunate thing is, whether you want to believe it or not, Stateside is the standard for visibility, which is why ALL great foreign fighters eventually want to come here to 'Prove' themselves, Calzaghe, Hatton, Froch, Kessler, Khan (although I wouldn't call him great yet),...all needed/wanted USA Mainstream recognition. Until Valero is able to attain that, through no fault of his own, he will NEVER reach the standard of drawing power that a Mayweather, Manny, etc. have!!!

 

[TJervey]

Hmm. Good argument. I'm just not convinced with the part about measuring high profile with an ability to headline a PPV. There are so many reasons why fights are not done on PPV. Sometimes, PPV's are done when the matchup is so shitty that even HBO and Showtime won't put up decent money for it. That's why there were these obscure PPV telecasts with Roy Jones and Jeff Lacy and Jones vs Badi, etc. Just because Jones and Lacy were on some obscure PPV together, does that mean they were high profile? I think they are high profile but not because they can or can't headline a PPV. Regardless of whether or not Mosley can headline a PPV, I think he's definitely high profile because he's a recognized major player. You did say Mosley needed "another" high profile fighter for a PPV to happen so you implied that Mosley is indeed high profile just not high profile enough. If the topic is that subjective and that muddied, then high profile is just a matter of opinion. Otherwise, how can you tell if a guy is short profile, high profile enough, too much, high profile level 1, high profile level 2, or whatever.

Also, High Profile is not a matter of opinion, it is a matter of bottom line numbers. That's why a fighter as talented as Paul Williams still has to headline cards on Regular HBO whereas his style and ability SHOULD in a perfect world have him headlining PPV events! I believe you are confusing talent with High Profile... Example, I believe Mickey Ward was a talented boxer with what he did best, but, he didn't receive the recognition, i.e. High Profile visibility until his wars with Gatti, who was High Profile but maybe not a better fighter. Talent is not the end all equation with High Profile. It has more to do with politics, your promoter and how they sell you, and to a point your fighting style and talent....