Mayweather to Dictate Drug Testing Terms for Mosley Fight

[Zeferino]

Also, High Profile is not a matter of opinion, it is a matter of bottom line numbers. That's why a fighter as talented as Paul Williams still has to headline cards on Regular HBO whereas his style and ability SHOULD in a perfect world have him headlining PPV events! I believe you are confusing talent with High Profile... Example, I believe Mickey Ward was a talented boxer with what he did best, but, he didn't receive the recognition, i.e. High Profile visibility until his wars with Gatti, who was High Profile but maybe not a better fighter. Talent is not the end all equation with High Profile. It has more to do with politics, your promoter and how they sell you, and to a point your fighting style and talent....

Hey, maybe I am confusing it. I can say I'm wrong when I am, I just need to hear a good argument and be convinced. I think part of the reason I look at this differently is because I've followed the sport since before PPV was even an issue or even in existence. Therefore, there were other ways of determining if a fighter was "high profile". I am interested to know what numbers the Juanma fight did. They must have been very paltry as almost no mention has been made of them.

Regarding the United States and recognition. There are many "high profile" European fighters that have stayed in Europe their whole careers and have become millionaires many times over without setting foot in the U.S. They were certainly high profile in Europe although unknown to casual fans in the U.S. But hey, as Chris Rock once said, "God bless America, and no place else."

Regardless, this all started because I used Valero as an example of yet another fighter stating he wants to fight Pac without all the drug testing demands. This was in response to AlaskanRed and UpgradeDave taking the doomsday approach regarding Pacquiao with the dramatical "oh, now no ones gonna wanna fight that nigga because he's hiding his PED use", etc. I posted the article with Valero and I previously mentioned the interview with Mosley where he states he wouldn't require any testing.

Predictably, anyone that is willing to fight Pacquiao without special testing is either not high profile enough or is just some "nigga" starving for money.

 

[TJervey]

Hey, maybe I am confusing it. I can say I'm wrong when I am, I just need to hear a good argument and be convinced. I think part of the reason I look at this differently is because I've followed the sport since before PPV was even an issue or even in existence. Therefore, there were other ways of determining if a fighter was "high profile". I am interested to know what numbers the Juanma fight did. They must have been very paltry as almost no mention has been made of them.

Regarding the United States and recognition. There are many "high profile" European fighters that have stayed in Europe their whole careers and have become millionaires many times over without setting foot in the U.S. They were certainly high profile in Europe although unknown to casual fans in the U.S. But hey, as Chris Rock once said, "God bless America, and no place else."

Regardless, this all started because I used Valero as an example of yet another fighter stating he wants to fight Pac without all the drug testing demands. This was in response to AlaskanRed and UpgradeDave taking the doomsday approach regarding Pacquiao with the dramatical "oh, now no ones gonna wanna fight that nigga because he's hiding his PED use", etc. I posted the article with Valero and I previously mentioned the interview with Mosley where he states he wouldn't require any testing.

Predictably, anyone that is willing to fight Pacquiao without special testing is either not high profile enough or is just some "nigga" starving for money.

I feel you and the argument you mentioned in your last paragraph is between you and them. I for one have never been on the not high profile or nigga starving for money tip, I am speaking on general terms from the prospective of profile. For example, High Profile...take LeBron James and say Gerald Wallace. Both are NBA Stars, talented and this season all stars...Which Player do you believe will be more recognized world wide by EVERYONE not just hard core basketball fans?

Also, again, I did NOT say ALL European fighters came to the US to fight, nor did I say you had to be High Profile to make millions?!?!?!? Please, show me when I said that...Truth is, most of the Euro fighters who didn't eventually come to the US to fight are not held in as high regard as some of the others. Example, Lennox Lewis, all time great, fought in the US. Name ONE Euro heavyweight who didn't come here to fight who is mentioned in the same breath as him.... Calzaghe, Hatton, Froch, Kessler, ALL are more known and respected at this point because they ventured across the water. Name me 5 Euro fighters who are held in High Regard and all time great status without making the trip. Just give me 5!!!!

 

[Jordan Diddy Buk]

Predictably, anyone that is willing to fight Pacquiao without special testing is either not high profile enough or is just some "nigga" starving for money.

I totally disagree. With this, but we are on two very different wavelenghts on this issue. How is this even an issue just because PBF/GBP made it one? Seriously. Are you going to tell me you had suspicions for years that manny was on something? I mean did you think of it when he fought JMM, MAB, Oscar, Hatton, or Cotto? If so you were ahead of your time. Because no one said anything like this until the mayweathers got shook and started planting seeds on why they might loss. Now cats are putting bhop in the same mix. Do you think any fighter that gets in the ring with hopkins should ask for a special test? Do you think Shane should do special test for the rest of his fights? Have you ever thought that maybe this really was a ploy and not something for real. Because I tell you something. I would put money on it. The next fight pbf has with a fighter outside of gbp's camp will not do the test. i mean you do see that him asking a stable mate to do the test is no big deal?

 

[Zeferino]

I totally disagree. With this, but we are on two very different wavelenghts on this issue. How is this even an issue just because PBF/GBP made it one? Seriously. Are you going to tell me you had suspicions for years that manny was on something? I mean did you think of it when he fought JMM, MAB, Oscar, Hatton, or Cotto? If so you were ahead of your time. Because no one said anything like this until the mayweathers got shook and started planting seeds on why they might loss. Now cats are putting bhop in the same mix. Do you think any fighter that gets in the ring with hopkins should ask for a special test? Do you think Shane should do special test for the rest of his fights? Have you ever thought that maybe this really was a ploy and not something for real. Because I tell you something. I would put money on it. The next fight pbf has with a fighter outside of gbp's camp will not do the test. i mean you do see that him asking a stable mate to do the test is no big deal?

I was just being sarcastic. Are you drinking beer and typing again?

 

[Upgrade Dave]

I have to disagree to a point concerning Manny's crossover appeal. While he may not have the Iconic appeal Oscar has (I don't thing ANY fighter has it to that degree), I don't believe a simple loss will effect his status that much. Say, for example, he loses to Clottey in a very close, hard fought fight...while it will have some impact, I still believe it's the way he loses more than IF he loses. To get dominated and knocked out, that would have a huge impact on ANY fighter, Floyd, Manny, it damn sure did on Oscar...that's a big reason why he retired as well. There was no coming back from the way Manny beat him! He sort of survived the Floyd loss, but Manny DOMINATED him. He was no longer considered a TOP contender due to HOW he lost.

Oscar's not a good comparison because he's had well over a decade of engaging casual fans, something Pacquiao doesn't have. DLH's been at the forefront for a long time while Pac's a new face to many who didn't see him fight Morales or Barrera. Oscar's thrashing by Manny was his second high profile beating in three fights and he was unimpressive in his win with Stevie Forbes.
I agree that Pac wouldn't be hurt as much with a strong losing effort but I do think he's not in a strong enough position with a contingent of non-hardcores that he can afford to lose to a "nobody"(how they would see Clottey, not me).

.

As far as Jones, Pac, and the PED's. I've never been a big fan about speculating that someone is guilty of cheating just because they "look" guilty. However, I will admit that I have suspicions about that Cris Cyborg chick. Anyway, as far as moving up and losing muscle tone, why mention Pac and not Mayweather? For the past few weeks there have been articles with comparison tables where they put Mayweather and Pac's ages and weights over the years and the rise in weight has been virtually identical. The last time I saw Mayweather, he was just as ripped as Pac and he hasn't lost any speed at all. Maybe Pac takes guys out in more exciting fashion but that's just a matter of styles. Just because Pac is knocking guys out and Mayweather decides to peck and shoulder roll does not mean Pac is juicing and Mayweather is not. What if Pac decided to change his style and peck at guys from the outside instead of stepping to them and trying to bang them out? Would that mean he was not juicing anymore?

I was tempted to answer this one but I see it's already been done, so carry on.

Also, sure options have surged for Pac at 140lbs but the biggest money fights in boxing were against Oscar, Mayweather, and even Mosley and Margarito, and shit even Cotto, all at 147. Why wouldn't Pac move to 147lbs? Do you guys really think Pac was running from Nate Campbell and Paulie Malignaggi at 140? I don't.

Wouldn't say he was running but he didn't exactly "clean out his division". This is one of my bones of contention when debating the merits of Floyd Mayweather and his career compared to other guys fighting. Mayweather gets it for not fighting every single name welterweight to lace up boots and taking big money fights with DLH and Hatton but Pacquiao fought the weakest option at lightweight and a shot, drained DLH and a weakened Cotto and is treated like the second coming of Henry Armstrong. Though he gets full credit for smashing Ricky Hatton, dude was at his natural weight and just got mollywhopped

Furthermore, I fail to see why 135 and 140 should be considered deeper divisions than 147. Maybe it is but I just don't see it. Juan Diaz fell off. Campbell fell off. Casamayor fell off. Malignaggi is a bum. Valero just arrived. Bradley's just getting known. Devon Alexander is still virtually anonymous and Khan is just coming up. The best guys at 140 will probably end up at 147 anyway.

Okay, you just named 8 noteworthy fighters at 135 to 140, now do that for welterweight. As I said, the depth is at lightweight now and not welter. But the money is at welter (Mayweather, Mosley).

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Hey, maybe I am confusing it. I can say I'm wrong when I am, I just need to hear a good argument and be convinced. I think part of the reason I look at this differently is because I've followed the sport since before PPV was even an issue or even in existence. Therefore, there were other ways of determining if a fighter was "high profile". I am interested to know what numbers the Juanma fight did. They must have been very paltry as almost no mention has been made of them.

Regarding the United States and recognition. There are many "high profile" European fighters that have stayed in Europe their whole careers and have become millionaires many times over without setting foot in the U.S. They were certainly high profile in Europe although unknown to casual fans in the U.S. But hey, as Chris Rock once said, "God bless America, and no place else."

Regardless, this all started because I used Valero as an example of yet another fighter stating he wants to fight Pac without all the drug testing demands. This was in response to AlaskanRed and UpgradeDave taking the doomsday approach regarding Pacquiao with the dramatical "oh, now no ones gonna wanna fight that nigga because he's hiding his PED use", etc. I posted the article with Valero and I previously mentioned the interview with Mosley where he states he wouldn't require any testing.

Predictably, anyone that is willing to fight Pacquiao without special testing is either not high profile enough or is just some "nigga" starving for money.

I never said "no one" will fight him. Even guys who have said they think he's dirty have said they'll fight him. Pacquiao's one of the two biggest paydays in boxing right now, he's always going to have guys willing to fight him. Athletes are not knows for doing the best thing for themselves long term so there are a lot of guys who could watch him shooting himself up right before the fight and would still fight. The only people that the PED/random blood testing controversy will come into play with are GB fighters (Shane can talk that game now but I'll believe it when the fight is signed, especially if he knocks out J. Clottey) I think he limited himself more by committing to welterweight.

I feel you and the argument you mentioned in your last paragraph is between you and them. I for one have never been on the not high profile or nigga starving for money tip, I am speaking on general terms from the prospective of profile. For example, High Profile...take LeBron James and say Gerald Wallace. Both are NBA Stars, talented and this season all stars...Which Player do you believe will be more recognized world wide by EVERYONE not just hard core basketball fans?

Also, again, I did NOT say ALL European fighters came to the US to fight, nor did I say you had to be High Profile to make millions?!?!?!? Please, show me when I said that...Truth is, most of the Euro fighters who didn't eventually come to the US to fight are not held in as high regard as some of the others. Example, Lennox Lewis, all time great, fought in the US. Name ONE Euro heavyweight who didn't come here to fight who is mentioned in the same breath as him.... Calzaghe, Hatton, Froch, Kessler, ALL are more known and respected at this point because they ventured across the water. Name me 5 Euro fighters who are held in High Regard and all time great status without making the trip. Just give me 5!!!!

Name 3. We complain often about bullshit judging here but over there it's damn near standard operating procedure where foreign (mainly American) fighters are concerned. There is a reason Dariusz Michalczewski rarely fought outside Germany.

 

[TJervey]

I never said "no one" will fight him. Even guys who have said they think he's dirty have said they'll fight him. Pacquiao's one of the two biggest paydays in boxing right now, he's always going to have guys willing to fight him. Athletes are not knows for doing the best thing for themselves long term so there are a lot of guys who could watch him shooting himself up right before the fight and would still fight. The only people that the PED/random blood testing controversy will come into play with are GB fighters (Shane can talk that game now but I'll believe it when the fight is signed, especially if he knocks out J. Clottey) I think he limited himself more by committing to welterweight.


Name 3. We complain often about bullshit judging here but over there it's damn near standard operating procedure where foreign (mainly American) fighters are concerned. There is a reason Dariusz Michalczewski rarely fought outside Germany.

That's my point in a nutshell! Not to say there are no talented fighters there...but whereas bad decisions are the exception to the rule here, a foreign fighter starts the first round down 4-0 on the score cards there! I've seen fight with multiple knockdowns and the foreign fighter has lost by 5-6 rounds! That why as much as RJJ used to bug me I can't blame him for not going there to fight back in the day!

 

[Upgrade Dave]

That's my point in a nutshell! Not to say there are no talented fighters there...but whereas bad decisions are the exception to the rule here, a foreign fighter starts the first round down 4-0 on the score cards there! I've seen fight with multiple knockdowns and the foreign fighter has lost by 5-6 rounds! That why as much as RJJ used to bug me I can't blame him for not going there to fight back in the day!

Oh hell yeah. Whatever one may think of Jones, he absolutely made the right decision to not fight Michalczewski or Calzaghe in Europe in the 90s. They needed him, he didn't need them.

 

[Zeferino]

Oscar's not a good comparison because he's had well over a decade of engaging casual fans, something Pacquiao doesn't have. DLH's been at the forefront for a long time while Pac's a new face to many who didn't see him fight Morales or Barrera. Oscar's thrashing by Manny was his second high profile beating in three fights and he was unimpressive in his win with Stevie Forbes.
I agree that Pac wouldn't be hurt as much with a strong losing effort but I do think he's not in a strong enough position with a contingent of non-hardcores that he can afford to lose to a "nobody"(how they would see Clottey, not me).



I was tempted to answer this one but I see it's already been done, so carry on.

Also, sure options have surged for Pac at 140lbs but the biggest money fights in boxing were against Oscar, Mayweather, and even Mosley and Margarito, and shit even Cotto, all at 147. Why wouldn't Pac move to 147lbs? Do you guys really think Pac was running from Nate Campbell and Paulie Malignaggi at 140? I don't.

Wouldn't say he was running but he didn't exactly "clean out his division". This is one of my bones of contention when debating the merits of Floyd Mayweather and his career compared to other guys fighting. Mayweather gets it for not fighting every single name welterweight to lace up boots and taking big money fights with DLH and Hatton but Pacquiao fought the weakest option at lightweight and a shot, drained DLH and a weakened Cotto and is treated like the second coming of Henry Armstrong. Though he gets full credit for smashing Ricky Hatton, dude was at his natural weight and just got mollywhopped



Okay, you just named 8 noteworthy fighters at 135 to 140, now do that for welterweight. As I said, the depth is at lightweight now and not welter. But the money is at welter (Mayweather, Mosley).

Actually, I named 2 lightweights and 6 junior welters.

Manny Pacquiao
Floyd Mayweather
Andre Berto
Luis Collazo
Shane Mosley
Zab judah
Antonio Margarito
Joshua Clottey
Kermit Cintron

Just as noteworthy as those other guys.

 

[Zeferino]

Wouldn't say he was running but he didn't exactly "clean out his division". This is one of my bones of contention when debating the merits of Floyd Mayweather and his career compared to other guys fighting. Mayweather gets it for not fighting every single name welterweight to lace up boots and taking big money fights with DLH and Hatton but Pacquiao fought the weakest option at lightweight and a shot, drained DLH and a weakened Cotto and is treated like the second coming of Henry Armstrong. Though he gets full credit for smashing Ricky Hatton, dude was at his natural weight and just got mollywhopped

What's ironic is how you say Pac fought the weakest guys at lightweight, fought a weakened Cotto, De La Hoya was drained, yet you swear he must have been on PED's to have been able to dominate such disadvantaged opponents. In a sense, I agree with you about the level of competition or the state in which his competition was when he fought them. That's is why I am not AMAZED that Pac beat these guys to the point where I have to think he was on steroids or something. If Pac steps up and starts knocking out Sergio Martinez and Kelly Pavlik, that would be amazing to me and maybe I would start entertaining the PED theories. But the guy beats up a mauled up Cotto and a so called drained De La Hoya and just because Mayweather Sr talks shit, you guys eat it up and swear the guy must have been on PED's. It's all very hypocritical.

 

[Dallas Bueller 2010]

http://www.secondsout.com/usa-boxin...o-dictate-drug-testing-terms-for-mosley-fight

out of all the comments this one got me thinking.

bodidis: We all know that pacquiao never take and tested positive on his all fights. But if pacquiao agrees to Mayweather conditions he should ask Mayweather to fight in Texas. You know what! I am positive Mayweather will decline to this contract and duck Pacquiao.

Would pbf really fight Manny in texas where Xylocaine is banned? I mean the only real reason he fights there is cause nevada allows the drug. Interesting thought. I doubt pbf would fight anywhere except in vegas even for 20 million dollars.

Boxing is going to have to hear this issue out and decide how to hand drug testing in the future.

goodp ost

 

[Upgrade Dave]

Actually, I named 2 lightweights and 6 junior welters.

Manny Pacquiao
Floyd Mayweather
Andre Berto
Luis Collazo
Shane Mosley
Zab judah
Antonio Margarito
Joshua Clottey
Kermit Cintron

Just as noteworthy as those other guys.

You said that like you corrected me. Isn't lightweight and jr welter between 135 and 140?
Manny can't fight himself so that's off the list of perspective opponents. He's already fighting Clottey, taking him off the list. Margarito is a strong maybe but Cintron and Judah are done and will spend the rest of their careers as "opponents". He's not going to fight Shane and Floyd, so one of them comes off the list. He's got maybe two live opponents left in the welterweight division after Clottey.
Casamayor and Campbell are well over the hill but were still fighting well when Manny first became a lightweight as was Joan Guzman (he may be done too). That still leaves 6 guys (Diaz, Malignaggi puke, Bradley, Alexander, Valero, Khan) for him to have possible matchups with if he had remained at lightweight.

Even taking your list as/is, the area of lightweight and jr. welter (I combined them because there's more possible movement between those two divisions) are still deeper than welter, even throw in super welters.

Some things we can honestly disagree about but the greater depth between 135 and 140 isn't one.

What's ironic is how you say Pac fought the weakest guys at lightweight, fought a weakened Cotto, De La Hoya was drained, yet you swear he must have been on PED's to have been able to dominate such disadvantaged opponents. In a sense, I agree with you about the level of competition or the state in which his competition was when he fought them. That's is why I am not AMAZED that Pac beat these guys to the point where I have to think he was on steroids or something. If Pac steps up and starts knocking out Sergio Martinez and Kelly Pavlik, that would be amazing to me and maybe I would start entertaining the PED theories. But the guy beats up a mauled up Cotto and a so called drained De La Hoya and just because Mayweather Sr talks shit, you guys eat it up and swear the guy must have been on PED's. It's all very hypocritical.

For the umpteenth and hopefully last time

It was not anything anyone named Mayweather said that made me suspicious of Pacquiao, it was his own behavior. I think the Mayweathers talk a lot of shit for entertainment purposes and as games they play on opponents. They treat the shit like pro wrestling in a lot of ways. So, while I respect their knowledge of the sport, I know they bullshit a lot too. My initial impression was that they would ping-pong it back and forth, end up with some testing and fight on. But it was the endless stream of lies and excuses thrown out there by Pac and Roach and Arum that made me look at Manny askew.
I had said the same things about his beating of both DLH and Cotto (them being weakened) but that does not mean Pac absolutely didn't use just as his whooping they're asses doesn't mean he did.
I've said all along, he played this wrong and it will follow him. It may hurt him but it probably won't (Shane Mosley, Roy Jones Jr. and James Toney will all be HoFers and they're guilty as fuck).

 

[TJervey]

Another overlooked common thread is that Freddy Roach was also James Toney's trainer during the time he was busted for steroids and he was also the biggest voice in the beginning of this Mayweather ordeal.... But now, since this issue has careened out of control, that Dude is silent as hell, leaving Manny to fend for himself which to me us kinda fucked up. Also, now it appear questions about other fighters in his stable using PED's, specifically Khan!