We talking only money?????????????????????
Matrix 4 Resurrection - 2021 Discussion Thread (Officially in Theaters) **Poll added**
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@Tito_Jackson son this dude
Box office doesn't determine quality
Neo in the new matrix after fake Morpheus calls him out about being a pussywhipped stalker the rest of the movie
what so funny is that this accurately how the film ended
Man that nigga saw the whole movie
That's a true statement. My post was to remove subjectivity (your opinion) in this thread derailment. My thoughts were based on the studios opinion. Do you think WB cares more about a Rotten Tomatoes score or Box Office receipts? I attached the RT scores. Looks like only Shazam is better...barely. The other 2 were washes.
So, by this logic Flo Rida is a better rapper/ hip hop artist than 2 Pac, Snoop, and DMX because he made more money. The film, The Godfather to this date has made "only" $268,500,000 at the box office.
Hancock made more money than Ironman 1 and 2 and Logan. By your logic, Hancock is a better movie.
Captain America is the worst performing Marvel movies of all time only ahead of The Incredible Hulk, a movie that most Marvel stans love to conveniently leave out of every conversation.
Box office sales are never a true measure of the quality of a film. Neither are Oscars. Other than BP, the only other Marvel film to win ironically were animations. And we can all agree that DC animations are stillight years ahead of Marvel. DC Oscars? Simply, DC has more.
Phase 1 through 3 for Marvel was Incredible. No denying this.
Marvel and DC as properties have always respected each other and even collaborated. For any person to declare that any one of the properties are garbage simply doesn't know ish about anything.
Hancock made more money than Ironman 1 and 2 and Logan. By your logic, Hancock is a better movie.
Captain America is the worst performing Marvel movies of all time only ahead of The Incredible Hulk, a movie that most Marvel stans love to conveniently leave out of every conversation.
Box office sales are never a true measure of the quality of a film. Neither are Oscars. Other than BP, the only other Marvel film to win ironically were animations. And we can all agree that DC animations are stillight years ahead of Marvel. DC Oscars? Simply, DC has more.
Phase 1 through 3 for Marvel was Incredible. No denying this.
Marvel and DC as properties have always respected each other and even collaborated. For any person to declare that any one of the properties are garbage simply doesn't know ish about anything.
I guess you never saw the watchmen hbo series with Regina King. It was a sequel of sorts.
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Plenty of people prefer Flo Rida to Tupac, Snoop & DMX. I'm not one but that's their opinion. If you include inflation, usually better performing films have high critic/audience reviews. It's not all black & white of course. There's some gray. I don't agree with the sentiment that all DC films are trash. I think if you take the DCEU films, it's very hit or miss in box office performance & critical response compared to the MCU.
My point of bringing up box office was that generally audiences don't flood the theaters to see something they thought was meh or disliked (kids movies notwithstanding). My response was to @shaddyvillethug & his DC vs. Marvel list. So I showed that DC lost critically & financially in all 3 comparisons.
Making money doesn't guarantee something is/has top quality but in the entertainment industry, likes & preferences are all opinion based. I know plenty of people who like Freddy Got Fingered. Doesn't make it a good movie. And I also know people who can't sit through The Godfather. Doesn't make it a bad movie. That's their opinion. Just like in this thread there's plenty of people who like The Matrix Resurrections. My opinion is that it was terrible.
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Sorta missed my point. If Watchmen was more successful at the box office, you would have gotten Watchmen 2 in theaters & not 10 years later a TV series.
or maybe they realized they can tell a better story with a multi-episode series vs a 2:30- 3 hour movie. some things don't translate well as a movie.
The creator Alan Moore thought the novel was unfilmable. Which is why so many liberties were taken to adapt it to screen. TV Series typically get more time to develop characters & motivations. So yes, the story would work better as a series.
Bro both them hulk movies was complete ass
they leave out Ironman 2 and 3 for whatever reasons
ima keep it a buck
Winter soldier
Avengers(1)
BP
was they hottest shit
everything else was a dud
Them X-men movies are FOX
but isn't quality subjective too?? Particularly when your talking about commercialism and profits? Isn't this the biggest measuring stick in capitalism?? how much did it make? How popular did it score on average to the paying public??
Sorta. Capitalism is the driving force in this country. Cost plays a massive part in whether a film is a box office success. Numbers is the only tangible thing you can call objective in this derailment discussion.
If someone says film A is trash but film B is a masterpiece, that person is stating their opinion. Nothing definitive about that statement. If you say Film A won more Oscars than Film B, that's a fact. It's a fact driven by a group of individual's opinions. Box office success works similarly.
Film A made less money than Film B at the box office. Another fact based on the popular opinion of the masses who chose Film B with their wallets. Now the studio who developed Film B could still consider it a failure based on production & advertisement costs.
I agree.. I had this discussion on a matrix review channel on youtube.. the guy was talking about how well the metaphors and symbolism was constructed in the movie and my response was. that sounds boring to me....at no point did he mention fun or popcorn or entertaining in a way that movies are supposed to be. The average movie watcher shouldn't need a college course in philosophy and what not to enjoy a movie.
Looking at the reviews and scores...compared to the first Matrix which was almost universally acclaimed Resurrections was decidedly more mixed. As were Reloaded and Revolutions.
The explanation for that could be as simple as maybe people picked up on all the metaphors and symbols and weren't as impressed with it with each sequel. Or the increasing over the top and over long action scenes (100 smiths fight in Reloaded) or the annoying verbal diarrhea of the Architect or the wooden acting (not just keanu) for example. I'm sure all of these things were done on purpose but the biggest effect it had was removing people from the story.. When youre watching a movie and the thought "what the hell is he talking about?" pops in your head then we're no longer immersed in what's going on we're just watching things happen. At that point you have to ask who is this movie for? Again this is based on audience reaction for the 4 movies...for this last one some people loved it and some hated it but many in the middle seem to be....meh. As I understand it movie studios don't pump 100s of millions into a movie to get that reaction.
There were whole parts in the movie where I was thinking "I have no idea whats going on..." A lot of action was happening I wasn't invested in any of it. No one wants to feel like they need to watch a movie needing a sociology 101 and Guide to Metaphors & Symbolism in Cinema text books ("neo walked over 3 puddles that must mean something!") This was why many were disappointed with Revolutions it was too steeped in that stuff and not engaging or fun anymore. It shouldn't take 20 years of speculation to find out who the one was or wasn't..thats not clever thats just annoying and it removes people out of the story. Which, I'm sorry, I thought the whole purpose of action movie making was to get people involved in the story in the first place.
At this point with this particular series the wachowskis can get pretty dense with the metaphors and symbolism Again Reloaded and Revolution had diminishing returns.
And its one thing to ask the audience to think about the media we consume and its another to call us morons for liking cat videos.
I agree completely. The Wachowskis decided long ago that symbolism & metaphors is the most important part of of their film making process. How much symbolism can they cram in each shot. And I'm sure The Matrix Resurrections will be studied & theorized ad nauseum for years. To me that doesn't make a movie "smart" or entertaining.
I'm certain WB didn't pump however much money they invested into this film to get this reaction. I'm certain they have buyers remorse at this point. The Matrix had symbolism & metaphors, also clever use of foreshadowing. But ultimately at the end of the day it was a stylized action movie with ground breaking special effects & shots.
V is the truth cannot front. The Watchmen movie was aiight not better than The Avengers. Shazam I haven’t seen so can’t comment.
and in all of this notice....WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT THE STORY!!!
no cool lines..no cool or memorable characters... nothing.
Bugz? a rabbit reference...white rabbit...alice in wonderland...the rabbit hole....
SO THE FUCK WHAT?!What stand out action sequence was there?
hell lets get into the matrix itself... all the movies illustrate ultimately that you can't change something from the inside. When you step back and look at all the movies and stories attached (remember animatrix?) Theyve cycled thru all of this stuff some dozens of times...only to have to reboot everything and humans are STILL enslaved to the machines... at this point doing all of these things is just an exercise in futility...really.
maybe thats a metaphor for the black experience in America. Another example I used in the convo with the reviewer. He noted that 60 years had passed since the deal Neo made with the machines that would give humans the choice of staying in the matrix:
You do realise it’s been sixty years, that’s enough time for an entire new generation to have come of age having never been presented with that the choice? (Which, not to put too fine a point on it, might be similar to the real world phenomenon of how an entire generation that fought a war to reject fascism might somehow have completely forgot that struggle.)
my reply was: when the civil war ended the former slaves were offered the choice of going back to Africa to a newly formed country called Liberia..a country of ex US slaves. Many chose to not go because America was all they knew..you know having been born into slavery and living in America all their lives. The descendants of those ex slaves are some of the patriotic people you will ever meet (even if some of us don't openly show it) The first movie showed us a baby born in the matrix..that child growing up wouldn't know anything about the real world and wouldn't care. This goes beyond some sort of Stockholm syndrome. In 60 years there would be generations of humans that would only know the matrix and only want to know the matrix. Just as in the decades after slavery there wasn't a mass exodus of Blacks trying to leave the US. Giving someone a choice between what they know and don't know plus no guarantee of anything isn't really a choice is it?
What the Wachowskis wanted was a think piece that sparks conversations about the world around us and Lord knows they achieved that but all of this over the course of 4 movies and whats really changed?? Just as in American society theres a lot of protest and outcry but the basic power dynamics have remained unchanged since the beginning. Whiteness and white supremacy still remains and we ALL still think and behave in those terms so much so that nearly all of us aren't even aware of how deeply its ingrained in us.
In Resurrections, Trinity did say something about remaking their world (tho the rainbow skies was an LBGT reference)..cute....but unless the next story takes place outside of the matrix and actually brings the fight to the machines directly its all
And at no point in any of the movies was there a plan to take the fight to the machines directly. Anything less than that mean the machine will remain in power and humans still under their control to a large degree....any of that sound familiar?At this point to keep doing more Matrix movies means alot of flash and bang that will be blah... hell if you watch the last one, none of the infiltrators died and there were no real stakes. Again a critique of sequel making and society is all well and good but it comes at the sacrifice of just plain fun storytelling.
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For those who may still care there are rumors of an Animatrix 2.0.
During the architect scene in Matrix Reloaded, what was The architect trying to explain and what are his plans?
Essentially this is what The Architect tells us:
· The Machines have learned that the human brain cannot fully embrace their simulations unless it allows a real backdoor. A real choice of escaping - even if only on a subconscious level few will ever use. The Matrix must have a real dormant way to get free.
To solve this, their control system consists of four pillars:
1. The Matrix - the primary prison (power plant).
2. Zion - the secondary prison in the real world; a prison outside the simulation to house/managed "escaped" people.
3. Neo - the prophecy of the One gives humans false hope, and he can help manage humans in the real world (unlike programs).
4. A regular reset of Zion every 70-100 years to avoid that the human population of the outside world gets out of manageable control.
His plan was to get Neo to cooperate.
He needs Neo to help manage the anomaly, and the anomaly is this inherent human need for a choice of freedom, and the solution is allowing this choice under controlled circumstances. Neo is part of this solution. He is the eventuality, meaning he is inexorably made to solve the anomaly.
The Architect: “Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomaly … Which has led you, inexorably, here.”
“Sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation …”, mathematically this means he is the right side of the equation. He is the sum, the result — he is their solution.
After the Architect explains that Neo is the eventuality of the anomaly, he goes on to explain how this system of control has been done five times before. Each with a Neo, and a Zion to control escaping humans. Also, further supported by the images on the screens in the background. When he says what Neo is, we see images of Neo’s childhood and upbringing on all the monitors. Quite clearly illustrating that his life is a controlled lie. A fabrication. Neo was never sought for. He was not unknown or a surprise. He was on a planned path from his very conception until that moment, standing before the Architect. He was “inexorably, there”, to help keep the anomaly under control. And ultimately, to help reset the system when the number of escaped humans would have become too critical. All of which had been done five times before him.
In other words, The Architect then tells Neo he holds a code that is needed to save humanity. Only his decision can save it. That part is another trick, a leverage in his plan to convince Neo to cooperate.
The meeting with The Architect was for one purpose and one purpose only. It was to make Neo understand he had but one option to cooperate. They need a human (a Neo) to set up a new Zion, and nothing else.
It is evident by the fact that nothing happens to The Matrix after Neo chooses the wrong door. It doesn’t crash. It doesn't kill everyone connected, or anyone connected. It continues as it always would have. It is further evident when Neo then finally goes to The Source in Machine City, and it decrees that it does not need anybody - a reference to this code-fabrication. Of course, at that moment, it actually did need him – but for other reasons.
The question is, of course, why would the architect lie about Neo having a code? The answer is that Neo is presented with an ultimatum, purposefully designed to give Neo the impression of ultimate power where he can either save humanity or doom humanity.
The threat of this “code” makes Neo the key, and only he can save humanity. It is by his decision, and not somebody else’s. He has ultimate power over the future at this very moment — a binary choice. Of course, anyone presented with such power must use it… and help the machines. That was their plan: Making him believe he can only save humanity by cooperating blindly.
Would the ultimatum not have given him ultimate power - and him alone - it would not have worked.
Imagine if The Architect instead would say; “help, or we will kill you and your kin.” Essentially it is not much different, except he is not a key here. In this case, he could disagree, he could fight back, and perhaps he could even win. However, when they say he is the key to saving humanity - he cannot fight; he cannot oppose… he has to surrender and give his “code”. He has no true choice this way. And this is how The Architect thinks; he cannot see past any choice he does not understand (the Oracle later tells us). It was clever, but it was bullshit. Or as Neo rightfully says; “The problem is choice.”
The “reset of the Matrix” code-threat, was needed to make the charade work for them. Neo calls out on the bullshit (literally) and follows his heart (leading to Trinity) instead.
He has no “code” inside of him needed for a reset. No “code” is required to secure the Matrix from crashing. By choosing the “wrong” door, the Matrix did not crash. The Matrix was perfectly fine… Neo calling bullshit on the ultimatum permitted him to fight.
The Machines continue to clean out Zion, but now without the assistance of a Neo.
I heard the movie was about the plight of trannies.
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