How many black people need to view a black movie for it to be a successful project

[HotSauce161]

Re: How many black people need to view a black movie for it to be a successful projec

1. crowd funding

2. That is how is works currently. There are other ways of making it work. That is what we are talking about in this thread.
Value Innovation: How do we change the value proposition?
How do we use techniques from the Alternatives market and bring about a change to the value curve?

e.g. the cost of facebook ads vary based on the demographic you choose to display the ads to.

If a movie is streamed online, a bidding platform can be created to vary the cost of the ads based on views and the market that is viewing.
It works for social media.

That is a direct departure from the way it works now.



This is what this thread is about.

How do we do away with the old models.


So you posting how it works currently is good so that we see what doesn't work and innovate away from it.

We are not trying to use the old methods because clearly they don't work.

I get your eagerness and enthusiasm but you need to back it up with facts and models that actually work.

You are proposing to have a company to give you or whoever as an unknown entity not just a flat fee for putting their product in your film with no script but a fee that rises based on viewership? Being that you are not Facebook you do not have the leverage let alone the viewership/users to negotiate something like that.

So good luck with that.

 

[HotSauce161]

Re: How many black people need to view a black movie for it to be a successful projec

I'm saying that there are obstacles to funding the traditional way i.e. some person or entity puts up a huge amount of money upfront.


I'm saying we have to innovate away from that model.


Does that make sense?

you haven't actually proposed a way around those obstacles.

right now you have an idea for a film but:

no script
no cast
no director
no funding source/stream that's been fleshed out and articulated

you're spitballing which is fine, coming up with ideas to see what might work. but you haven't actually come up with any ideas that might work yet. that's why I keep saying that you are getting ahead of yourself.

the type of film you propose to make takes a lot of money to make so you need to:

a) find a way to get $
b) make a different type of film

Does that make sense?

 

[water]

Re: How many black people need to view a black movie for it to be a successful projec

I get your eagerness and enthusiasm but you need to back it up with facts and models that actually work.

You are proposing to have a company to give you or whoever as an unknown entity not just a flat fee for putting their product in your film with no script but a fee that rises based on viewership?

Good luck with that.

Where did you get no script from?


We are exploring thoughts in this thread, trying to brainstorm

There are no hard models, no hard positions especially when I didn't say this is the way to go.

My position is that we can innovate away from the old models that have built in obstacles for black people to make the movies they want to see.

Those roadblocks are no coincidences.

Just as the music industry thought that they could do business as usual, the movie business will learn that nothing lasts forever.

The consumer is ultimately important, fuck the process.

I work in tech and companies come and go because of the arrogance.

Have you heard of Zynga?

They generate $2 billion in revenue from selling virtual products in games on facebook

$2 billion dollars.

Think about that.

I'll post some links that show the revenue potential in virtual goods

 

[water]

Re: How many black people need to view a black movie for it to be a successful projec

you haven't actually proposed a way around those obstacles.

right now you have an idea for a film but:

no script
no cast
no director
no funding source/stream that's been fleshed out and articulated

you're spitballing which is fine, coming up with ideas to see what might work. but you haven't actually come up with any ideas that might work yet. that's why I keep saying that you are getting ahead of yourself.

the type of film you propose to make takes a lot of money to make so you need to:

a) find a way to get $
b) make a different type of film

Does that make sense?

I don't have an idea for a film. I'm NOT in the film business, I'm in the tech business.

I have an idea of film funding which I already outlined: pre-paid crowd funding.

Do you understand the concept of crowd funding?

Or is it that you doubt it's ability to raise he necessary budgets?

I'm really confused cause you keep talking about funding

 

[HotSauce161]

Re: How many black people need to view a black movie for it to be a successful projec

I don't have an idea for a film. I'm NOT in the film business, I'm in the tech business.

I have an idea of film funding which I already outlined: pre-paid crowd funding.

Do you understand the concept of crowd funding?

Or is it that you doubt it's ability to raise he necessary budgets?

I'm really confused cause you keep talking about funding

Yes I doubt the ability of crowd source funding to cover the budget of the type of film you are proposing. Typically, crowd sourced films get a portion of the $ this way, the rest through more traditional avenues. You are proposing full on crowd sourcing which hasn't proven to be viable yet for medium to large budget films.

From the beginning I've been saying an argument like this is like geometry - you have to show your work.

You propose crowd sourcing. Fine. What do the funders base their investment decision on? what do you show them to entice them to give up $ Are they donors or investors? What kind of budget do you want to start with?

 

[soulcontroller]

Re: How many black people need to view a black movie for it to be a successful projec

 

[water]

Re: How many black people need to view a black movie for it to be a successful projec

Yes I doubt the ability of crowd source funding to cover the budget of the type of film you are proposing. Typically, crowd sourced films get a portion of the $ this way, the rest through more traditional avenues. You are proposing full on crowd sourcing which hasn't proven to be viable yet for medium to large budget films.

From the beginning I've been saying an argument like this is like geometry - you have to show your work.

You propose crowd sourcing. Fine.

Q. What do the funders base their investment decision on?
A. (i) Consumers: Wanting to see the movie anyway. There are people who want to see certain types of movies and would be willing to pre-pay part of a ticket.
(ii) Advertisers: demographic of viewers based on the different distribution models.

Q. what do you show them to entice them to give up $
A. Different levels of engagement, script overview, sample trailers, possible actors/actresses, locations, cities typically give incentives for films to be made: housing, tax breaks etc..

Q. Are they donors or investors?
A. Both types. There are a lof of donors and foundations that will provide funding for certain topics.
Investor models can be worked out also.

Q. What kind of budget do you want to start with?
A. Budget for what? A film?
I'm not interested in having a film made.
I'm interested in working out an alternative funding model for films.

" You are proposing full on crowd sourcing which hasn't proven to be viable yet for medium to large budget films."



So what is wrong with that?

Because it has never been done means that it can't be done?

 

[HotSauce161]

Re: How many black people need to view a black movie for it to be a successful projec

" You are proposing full on crowd sourcing which hasn't proven to be viable yet for medium to large budget films."



So what is wrong with that?

Because it has never been done means that it can't be done?

thanks for fleshing this out.

I'm not in film or tv either but I happen to know a little more about the business than you do at the moment. I hope that you go out and learn more about the business so you can devise ways to make it work better.

Right now, you think you have it figured out much more so than you actually do.

Again, I commend you for finally fleshing out the argument. People can now get a real look at the foundation of your argument and decide whether or not it holds water. In my opinion you still have a very long way to go but I encourage you to keep going.

 

[water]

Re: How many black people need to view a black movie for it to be a successful projec

thanks for fleshing this out.

I'm not in film or tv either but I happen to know a little more about the business than you do at the moment. I hope that you go out and learn more about the business so you can devise ways to make it work better.

Right now, you think you have it figured out much more so than you actually do.

Again, I commend you for finally fleshing out the argument. People can now get a real look at the foundation of your argument and decide whether or not it holds water. In my opinion you still have a very long way to go but I encourage you to keep going.

man, I appreciate your knowledge because I know nothing about the industry and the only way to learn is to engage people like you.

Sometimes NOT knowing an industry is good because you don't see the roadblocks and therefore you innovate around them.

I also commend you for pushing me to flesh out my thoughts and hopefully it could be of use to someone.

At the end of the day my wish is to see us create our own stories and that we control what we want to see as opposed to waiting for some person or org to put up money upfront.


Saw this pic this morning:

 

[CADE_BADAZZ]

Re: How many black people need to view a black movie for it to be a successful projec

That is what I am getting at.

Wildlover hit the nail on the head.

I'm trying to say provided you have promo & distribution in place i.e. fuck the current way of doing it.

Put all that shit in a black box.

What constitutes a "successful" movie in terms of percentages etc....

I don't know to much about the movie business. But IMO if at a min you double your money it's a success financially.

If everyone is talking about it for years and always quotes it is a success. Kinda like those J and Silent Bob movies I don't think a lot of those movies made it to the big screen but everybody can repeat every line. Also if I'm not mistaken Half Baked did not make to the movies but it's just as popular as any movie that made the big screen.

 

[water]

Re: How many black people need to view a black movie for it to be a successful projec

I don't know to much about the movie business. But IMO if at a min you double your money it's a success financially.

If everyone is talking about it for years and always quotes it is a success. Kinda like those J and Silent Bob movies I don't think a lot of those movies made it to the big screen but everybody can repeat every line. Also if I'm not mistaken Half Baked did not make to the movies but it's just as popular as any movie that made the big screen.

I really need to get on to Danny Glover

 

[water]

Re: How many black people need to view a black movie for it to be a successful projec

 

[HotSauce161]

Re: How many black people need to view a black movie for it to be a successful projec

I really need to get on to Danny Glover

Actually you don't.
Not yet.
You have not produced anything useful yet.

You have some untested theories that you need to research and develop.

Example - people pre-paying for film

-Yes it happens now but not in the way you are envisioning it. People pre-paid for Batman. That $ went to the studios and the movie theaters, it did not go to Nolan to complete the movie. The movie has a release date from a major studio.

You are proposing that people pre-pay for a movie with the $ going to create the movie. That is an entirely different arrangement with the consumer. Who are you? Will you be able to make your release date? The consumer will have to weigh that before they take the risk and pre-pay.

That said, keep working at it.

 

[water]

Re: How many black people need to view a black movie for it to be a successful projec

Actually you don't.
Not yet.
You have not produced anything useful yet.

You have some untested theories that you need to research and develop.

Example - people pre-paying for film

-Yes it happens now but not in the way you are envisioning it. People pre-paid for Batman. That $ went to the studios and the movie theaters, it did not go to Nolan to complete the movie. The movie has a release date from a major studio.

You are proposing that people pre-pay for a movie with the $ going to create the movie. That is an entirely different arrangement with the consumer. Who are you? Will you be able to make your release date? The consumer will have to weigh that before they take the risk and pre-pay.

That said, keep working at it.

Throw some more stuff at me to consider.........


Please?

 

[HotSauce161]

Re: How many black people need to view a black movie for it to be a successful projec

Throw some more stuff at me to consider.........


Please?

You need to do the work.
Yes the folks on this board are a great resource but you need to put in your work.

I can't sit here typing all day, I'm not Fuzzy_McNut.

You know tech, but you don't really know the basics of filmaking/film financing.

Go start there.

 

[water]

Re: How many black people need to view a black movie for it to be a successful projec

You need to do the work.
Yes the folks on this board are a great resource but you need to put in your work.

I can't sit here typing all day, I'm not Fuzzy_McNut.

You know tech, but you don't really know the basics of filmaking/film financing.

Go start there.

I don't think it would be an efficient use of my time right now.

I already have a lot on my plate going 2 companies.

Appreciate your insights though.

 

[geechiedan]

Re: How many black people need to view a black movie for it to be a successful projec

That is what I am getting at.

Wildlover hit the nail on the head.

I'm trying to say provided you have promo & distribution in place i.e. fuck the current way of doing it.

Put all that shit in a black box.

What constitutes a "successful" movie in terms of percentages etc....

“A writer needs a pen, an artist needs a brush, but a filmmaker needs an army.”
― Orson Welles

in two pages so far you've seen that making a movie isn't as simple as asking for money. Movies get shelved and production breaks down ALL THE TIME...the 100 movies you see that make it the theater is just a SMALL fraction of the literal THOUSANDS that are proposed or stopped in the middle of production.

"I would have been more successful if I had left movies immediately. Stayed in the theater, gone into politics, written; anything. I’ve wasted a greater part of my life looking for money and trying to get along. Trying to make my work from this terribly expensive paint box, which is a movie. And I’ve spend too much energy on things that have nothing to do with making a movie. It’s about 2 percent movie making and 98 percent hustling. It’s no way to spend a life.”

-Orson Welles

you said provided you have promo & distribution in place i.e. fuck the current way of doing it. you can't skip over those parts because without them no one sees what you worked so hard to make.


If you want to think outside the box on generating funds for the black cast film then you have to consider what it takes to get it distributed and marketed since those existing avenues work against the make up of your film (assuming its not starring will smith either by himself or with a bunch of white folks.)

 

[water]

Re: How many black people need to view a black movie for it to be a successful projec

you said provided you have promo & distribution in place i.e. fuck the current way of doing it. you can't skip over those parts because without them no one sees what you worked so hard to make.


If you want to think outside the box on generating funds for the black cast film then you have to consider what it takes to get it distributed and marketed since those existing avenues work against the make up of your film (assuming its not starring will smith either by himself or with a bunch of white folks.)

If you were my employee I would fire you on the spot.


I'm saying put those things in a black box.

Now think about what would be classified as a successful movie.

Don't tell me I can't put it in a black box.

Tell me you can't picture it being in a black box.


Shit is pissing me off now.


How do you think people come up with new ideas?


Think the same way?

Simple question: what would you consider a successful movie in terms of viewership, percentages etc...

I'm trying to QUANTIFY how many black people it would take to view a movie to consider it a success.


Understand?


maybe it's me, can someone else chime in and explain what it is I'm trying to say?


Thanks

 

[HotSauce161]

Re: How many black people need to view a black movie for it to be a successful projec

If you were my employee I would fire you on the spot.


I'm saying put those things in a black box.

Now think about what would be classified as a successful movie.

Don't tell me I can't put it in a black box.

Tell me you can't picture it being in a black box.


Shit is pissing me off now.


How do you think people come up with new ideas?


Think the same way?

Simple question: what would you consider a successful movie in terms of viewership, percentages etc...

I'm trying to QUANTIFY how many black people it would take to view a movie to consider it a success.


Understand?


maybe it's me, can someone else chime in and explain what it is I'm trying to say?


Thanks

You honestly don't realize how much you don't know about getting a film made and displayed on screens. So when people point out how much you have oversimplified an approach to a new paradigm you don't grasp it because you don't know what they/we are talking about.

You want to accomplish something big and that's admirable but you have to start at the beginning you don't get to jump ahead to 10 steps away from the finish line.

Know the ledge.

 

[water]

Re: How many black people need to view a black movie for it to be a successful projec

You honestly don't realize how much you don't know about getting a film made and displayed on screens. So when people point out how much you have oversimplified an approach to a new paradigm you don't grasp it because you don't know what they/we are talking about.

You want to accomplish something big and that's admirable but you have to start at the beginning you don't get to jump ahead to 10 steps away from the finish line.

Know the ledge.

Bro, how does his response help answer the question?

 

[HotSauce161]

Re: How many black people need to view a black movie for it to be a successful projec

Bro, how does his response help answer the question?

Dude.

You keep posing the question as forget all that other stuff how do I accomplish what I want to accomplish?

You don't understand all that other stuff enough to go dismissing it. You have to have a foundation. That foundation involves you getting a better grasp on what it actually takes to get a film made.

You still can't even define what a successful film looks like.

Know the ledge.

 

[water]

Re: How many black people need to view a black movie for it to be a successful projec

Dude.

You keep posing the question as forget all that other stuff how do I accomplish what I want to accomplish?

You don't understand all that other stuff enough to go dismissing it. You have to have a foundation. That foundation involves you getting a better grasp on what it actually takes to get a film made.

You still can't even define what a successful film looks like.

Know the ledge.

Ironically, the part in blue is what I have been asking all thread......





Are you saying that it is impossible to define what is a successful movie without knowing what it takes to make a film?

 

[geechiedan]

Re: How many black people need to view a black movie for it to be a successful projec

If you were my employee I would fire you on the spot.


I'm saying put those things in a black box.

Now think about what would be classified as a successful movie.

Don't tell me I can't put it in a black box.

Tell me you can't picture it being in a black box.


Shit is pissing me off now.


How do you think people come up with new ideas?


Think the same way?

Simple question: what would you consider a successful movie in terms of viewership, percentages etc...

I'm trying to QUANTIFY how many black people it would take to view a movie to consider it a success.


Understand?


maybe it's me, can someone else chime in and explain what it is I'm trying to say?


Thanks

what you don't understand is that question is not about MAKING a movie its about MARKETING and DISTRIBUTING a movie. It doesn't matter if its a classic great film or a piece of shit if your distribution and marketing network is strong then it will make money. Thats the overriding concept behind how hollywood makes a film.

 

[HotSauce161]

Re: How many black people need to view a black movie for it to be a successful projec

Ironically, the part in blue is what I have been asking all thread......





Are you saying that it is impossible to define what is a successful movie without knowing what it takes to make a film?

for you apparently yes. since:

1) you aren't grasping the answers that are being given to that question.
a successful film is one that makes it's money back. enough so to cover the cost of the film then make a profit. that's been said here. a big hit makes at least a third of the cost of the film back opening weekend and has a slight drop off the next weekend.

2) you still aren't asking the right questions. you don't need to care how many black people see the film to gauge success. you aren't going to be able to predict what will work as a successful black film. you focus on making a good film with a good story and understand what age groups it might best appeal to. that's basic stuff. stuff you don't know yet. stuff you are acting like you don't have time to bother with. but the same stuff that will trip you up because you don't know it.

know
the
ledge

 

[water]

Re: How many black people need to view a black movie for it to be a successful projec

for you apparently yes. since:

1) you aren't grasping the answers that are being given to that question.
a successful film is one that makes it's money back. enough so to cover the cost of the film then make a profit. that's been said here.

a big hit makes at least a third of the cost of the film back opening weekend and has a slight drop off the next weekend.

2) you still aren't asking the right questions. you don't need to care how many black people see the film to gauge success. you aren't going to be able to predict what will work as a successful black film. you focus on making a good film with a good story and understand what age groups it might best appeal to. that's basic stuff. stuff you don't know yet. stuff you are acting like you don't have time to bother with. but the same stuff that will trip you up because you don't know it.

know
the
ledge

it took 2 pages to get somewhat of a direct answer to my question.




Ideally you want a big hit.

However it is not a requirement for successfully recouping your money as an investor.

If the revenue curve deviates from the norm but still exceeds all cost, is it still a success financially?

Are those correct statements?

 

[HotSauce161]

Re: How many black people need to view a black movie for it to be a successful projec

there aren't any shortcuts to this.
you're gonna need to read a book.

what's your aversion to doing so?

 

[trstar]

Re: How many black people need to view a black movie for it to be a successful projec

bump.

Good thoughts in this thread.

 

[wildlover85]

Re: How many black people need to view a black movie for it to be a successful projec

there aren't any shortcuts to this.
you're gonna need to read a book.

what's your aversion to doing so?

black film white money

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0813522676/?tag=vp314-20

 

[water]

Re: How many black people need to view a black movie for it to be a successful projec

there aren't any shortcuts to this.
you're gonna need to read a book.

what's your aversion to doing so?

1. I don't want to make a film

2. I don't have the time to study an industry in detail

3. I rather work with a co-founder with the relevant knowledge


Synergy, a group of people with diverse skill sets that are able to come together to disrupt an industry.


It's 2012.

 

[HotSauce161]

Re: How many black people need to view a black movie for it to be a successful projec

Ishtar

 

[water]

Re: How many black people need to view a black movie for it to be a successful projec

Ishtar

Isis

 

[HotSauce161]

Re: How many black people need to view a black movie for it to be a successful projec

Isis

Not even close.

I made a reference that I guess you didn't get.
It was just to drive the point home that a lot of this stuff is still way over your head.

You say you want to change the game but you don't really know how the game is played.

know
the
ledge

 

[water]

Re: How many black people need to view a black movie for it to be a successful projec

Not even close.

I made a reference that I guess you didn't get.
It was just to drive the point home that a lot of this stuff is still way over your head.

You say you want to change the game but you don't really know how the game is played.

know
the
ledge

Google "change agent"

Your assertions don't always hold true.


Sometimes what is needed is someone outside of the game to effect change to the game.

 

[HotSauce161]

Re: How many black people need to view a black movie for it to be a successful projec

Google "change agent"

Your assertions don't always hold true.


Sometimes what is needed is someone outside of the game to effect change to the game.

At the rate you are going that change agent isn't you.
Your aversion to learning more about the subject at hand, theorizing that you know enough to accomplish your goals, is holding you back.

Right now, you aren't bringing anything to the table apart from enthusiasm. Enthusiasm alone won't cut it. Combine it with skill and knowledge and then you will prove useful.

 

[water]

Re: How many black people need to view a black movie for it to be a successful projec

At the rate you are going that change agent isn't you.
Your aversion to learning more about the subject at hand, theorizing that you know enough to accomplish your goals, is holding you back.

Right now, you aren't bringing anything to the table apart from enthusiasm. Enthusiasm alone won't cut it. Combine it with skill and knowledge and then you will prove useful.

You are drifting away from providing information about the industry that would prove helpful and venturing into spending the very same time trying to school me about the need to learn.

I'm not ashamed to say I don't know so demonstrating that benefits no one.


At the end of the day I asked a question hoping to get some answers not suggestion about what I should ask.

It's funny technical people ask tech questions om here and get answers without the whole dancing around thing.

But do you Bro.....