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Has LeBron Passed Kobe?

LeBron James has already surpassed Kobe Bryant

  • Total voters
    257
LordSinister said:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/311555-why-kobejordan-debate-is-closer-than-it-seems

whatever..
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:lol: 2009.

I was thinking it was at least a 2012 article.

You don't see Kobe press like that now-- he's been totally written off with this missed season.

That could change with just a few acquisitions... Nobody seems to care when Duncan isn't Finals MVP on a Spurs championship that still totally changes the conversation about him, so if the Lakers make improbable gains even without Bryant as the #1 option, critics are going to have to give way on that "sidekick" slur singularly slung at Bryant when comparing him to Duncan.

This poll is amusing as hell to me-- it's now "LeBron over Kobe" at 38.64% (51 votes) and "Kobe still ahead or even" at 61.36% (81 votes-- Raptors status). LeBron was ahead when everyone assumed his team was about to win a third straight championship. But he's held in totally different regard a week later, even though he and Kobe are still the same players.
 
Art Vandelay said:
:lol: 2009.

I was thinking it was at least a 2012 article.

You don't see Kobe press like that now-- he's been totally written off with this missed season.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but it points to the things that barnac and Factor don't bring up.

Kobe will never be where he was before, but the numbers are there.
 
Not yet. I think they're on about the same level. He would need to lead a team to a championship for a third time to pass Kobe.

Neither of them has even passed Tim Duncan.
 
vb.jpg
 
Chuck gets at my point exactly, though more simplistically.

Charles Barkley Discusses Kobe, Jordan After LeBron’s Third Finals Loss

​


On Sunday, in what was just a five game series, LeBron James and the Miami Heat lost to the San Antonio Spurs in the 2014 NBA Finals. Since arriving in Miami four years ago, James has been to the Finals every single season, but has only been able to win two championships with Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh.

With James failing to win a championship in three of his five appearances, Charles Barkley was on the Dan Patrick Show this morning to discuss where he ranks when compared to Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant:

“I always find it fascinating…‘Did [Kobe] die or something?’ because LeBron has two championships and they just forget that Kobe has five. And they’re like how good is he compared to Michael Jordan, I say Kobe still has more. I think he’s closer to catching Kobe than he is Michael.”​

Barkley has been a strong supporter of James and believes he can go down as the greatest player of all-time, but recognizes that LeBron has three less championships than Kobe. If LeBron had been able to accomplish the same feat of winning three championships in a row like Kobe and Jordan, he would have been in the conversation at the age of 29 and still in his prime.

When LeBron and the Heat made their third straight appearance, all the talk was about how they were the best team since Jordan and his Bulls in the 1990′s. However, LeBron still has a ways to go before being mentioned in the same breath as Kobe and Jordan.
 
Upgrade Dave said:
Not yet. I think they're on about the same level. He would need to lead a team to a championship for a third time to pass Kobe.

Neither of them has even passed Tim Duncan.
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So you really think that if they had won three more games he'd be better than Kobe?

I don't know how LeBron's performance this year stacks up to last years but I know his reinforcements were significantly worse. Unless you're putting the difference between last year and this year on James's shoulders, that logic basically says "'LeBron's team wasn't as good as last year' or 'the Spurs were better/smarter than a year ago,' therefore Kobe Bryant is still ahead of LeBron James as a basketball player. LeBron James is not as good because Dwayne Wade got old."

Applying team accomplishments to individuals is ridiculous unfair in every way. LeBron James is a Ray Allen three pointer and four free throws away from being a complete laughingstock.

Yet Kawhi Leonard gets hurt and James is the leader of this historic threepeat and arguably equal to or better than Jordan.
 
LordSinister said:
Yeah, but it points to the things that barnac and Factor don't bring up.

Kobe will never be where he was before, but the numbers are there.
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Yeah-- To be clear, I wasn't laughing at you, I was laughing at the conversation.

Some of the change in conversation with both Bryant and James is due to spectators counting unhatched chickens. In 2009, many people thought Kobe Bryant winning six championships was a possibility; in 2014, almost nobody does. A week ago, LeBron was moving toward winning his third straight championship; today, he is the loser of three of five finals on a rebuilding team. It's a bit ironic.
 
Art Vandelay said:
:lol: 2009.

I was thinking it was at least a 2012 article.

You don't see Kobe press like that now-- he's been totally written off with this missed season.

That could change with just a few acquisitions... Nobody seems to care when Duncan isn't Finals MVP on a Spurs championship that still totally changes the conversation about him, so if the Lakers make improbable gains even without Bryant as the #1 option, critics are going to have to give way on that "sidekick" slur singularly slung at Bryant when comparing him to Duncan.

This poll is amusing as hell to me-- it's now "LeBron over Kobe" at 38.64% (51 votes) and "Kobe still ahead or even" at 61.36% (81 votes-- Raptors status). LeBron was ahead when everyone assumed his team was about to win a third straight championship. But he's held in totally different regard a week later, even though he and Kobe are still the same players.
Click to expand...

That's because (whether right or wrong) we've seen Kobe at his best. We've seen him win and lose at his best. While we've seen LeBron win and lose I don't believe (as good as he is today) we've seen him at his BEST. As crazy at it sounds he's still growing and maturing as a player. If asked whether LeBron is as good or better than Jordan or Kobe I would say no. If asked if he will eventually become the best to ever play I would say the odds are stacked in his favor because of the reason I noted earlier as well as the fact that he could play for another nine years at a high level.

The issue, I believe is this RUSH to throw him into the BEST EVER mix before his time. Anyone who says he will never be this or that is either joking or delusional. It's inevitable and that should be enough for LeBron fans.
 
Art Vandelay said:
It was all good just a week ago...

Before Game 3, it was "We waited 15 years to see from Jordan to this."

If the Heat lose tonight, this past week-- from the moment they evened the series at a game apiece, stealing homecourt advantage, to the Spurs nearly sweeping them tonight-- may be the single greatest one week downturn in an athletes stock ever.
Click to expand...

That's quite an overstatement.


As for the pole, I don't remember Kobe ever being as good as LeBron currently is, so LeBron is my pick.


 
Art Vandelay said:
So you really think that if they had won three more games he'd be better than Kobe?

I don't know how LeBron's performance this year stacks up to last years but I know his reinforcements were significantly worse. Unless you're putting the difference between last year and this year on James's shoulders, that logic basically says "'LeBron's team wasn't as good as last year' or 'the Spurs were better/smarter than a year ago,' therefore Kobe Bryant is still ahead of LeBron James as a basketball player. LeBron James is not as good because Dwayne Wade got old."

Applying team accomplishments to individuals is ridiculous unfair in every way. LeBron James is a Ray Allen three pointer and four free throws away from being a complete laughingstock.

Yet Kawhi Leonard gets hurt and James is the leader of this historic threepeat and arguably equal to or better than Jordan.
Click to expand...

As a basketball player, I would take Lebron over Kobe. The flaws I see in Lebron are fixable flaws while Kobe is Kobe, who apparently sees no flaws in his game.
But the question is if he's passed Kobe, which insinuates a "greatest of all time" type listing and he hasn't passed him based on the fact that they have the same accomplishment: leading a team to two championships.
Applying team accomplishments to individuals is unfair in a lot of ways but that's how it is. Kevin Garnett's legacy was secured once he won in Boston. All those years of putting up great numbers and All Star appearances still equaled up to a "failure" to many because he hadn't won anything, even the Western Conference Finals.
 
Once pau came to th lakers

Kobe instantly got 3 MVPs

2 finals and 1 season

Before that he was scouting Bynum for the lottery
 
wiZe said:
What's a win share? :confused:
Click to expand...

A metric that estimates the number of wins a player produces for his team. This can be calculated on its own, or by finding a player's Offensive Win Shares and Defensive Win Shares, and adding those together. This number is generally calculated using full-season statistics.
 
HeathCliff said:
Oh okay. Thanks for clearing that up.

I disagree with you on Lebron not having the will to win. I thought People still questioning his heart went into extinction after Game 6 in the ECF against Celtics in the Garden but I guess not :smh:
Click to expand...

I do think Lebron has the will to win and I am a fan of Lebron. I just don't think he has the ability to take over an entire game by just scoring uncontrollably like Jordan or Kobe. I can remember many games where dudes on both teams were just watching Jordan & Kobe score. There was nothing they could do. And Jordan and Kobe gave no fucks about what others thought, they only wanted to win the game.
 
mad_bomber said:
I do think Lebron has the will to win and I am a fan of Lebron. I just don't think he has the ability to take over an entire game by just scoring uncontrollably like Jordan or Kobe. I can remember many games where dudes on both teams were just watching Jordan & Kobe score. There was nothing they could do. And Jordan and Kobe gave no fucks about what others thought, they only wanted to win the game.
Click to expand...

You didn't see 2012 ECF Game 6 vs Boston?

 
Art Vandelay said:
Chuck gets at my point exactly, though more simplistically.

Charles Barkley Discusses Kobe, Jordan After LeBron’s Third Finals Loss

​


On Sunday, in what was just a five game series, LeBron James and the Miami Heat lost to the San Antonio Spurs in the 2014 NBA Finals. Since arriving in Miami four years ago, James has been to the Finals every single season, but has only been able to win two championships with Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh.

With James failing to win a championship in three of his five appearances, Charles Barkley was on the Dan Patrick Show this morning to discuss where he ranks when compared to Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant:

“I always find it fascinating…‘Did [Kobe] die or something?’ because LeBron has two championships and they just forget that Kobe has five. And they’re like how good is he compared to Michael Jordan, I say Kobe still has more. I think he’s closer to catching Kobe than he is Michael.”​

Barkley has been a strong supporter of James and believes he can go down as the greatest player of all-time, but recognizes that LeBron has three less championships than Kobe. If LeBron had been able to accomplish the same feat of winning three championships in a row like Kobe and Jordan, he would have been in the conversation at the age of 29 and still in his prime.

When LeBron and the Heat made their third straight appearance, all the talk was about how they were the best team since Jordan and his Bulls in the 1990′s. However, LeBron still has a ways to go before being mentioned in the same breath as Kobe and Jordan.
Click to expand...


Thanks for this post. Charles made some great points. There is a lot to be said for winning all your titles with the team you started on. Especially this day in age.
 
KingTaharqa said:
/thread.

At this point Kobe has more team accolades and cumulative stats. But individually Inkosi surpassed him a few years ago. Prime Kobe didnt dominate in the manner or over the length of time that Prime Bron is. Even WITH Shaq Kobe never saw 4 straight Finals. Now that he's not surrounded by the best talent and coaching I think this answer is even clearer. :cool:
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If kobe was in the east he could have went to the finals 10 straight seasons.
 
RoadRage said:
The things that kills Kobe argument is he had the easiest threepeat in the history of sports, out of the Nets, 76ers and the old Pacer teams none of them would have made it out out the 2nd round in the West this year.. While LeBron has gone up against the Spurs three times, a OKC with Harden on it, and a Mavs team that has been perennial playoffs competitors..
The one MVP tittle plus only one legit MVP in the finals, that last one he got was due to the fact that both Gasol and Bynum as a entity should have won it, but by default they gave it to KObe. His win loss vs LeBron is horrible.
LeBron beats him in just about every stat known to mankind.
Kobe has had a remarkable career, lets not take anything away from it based on what LeBron is doing....
Click to expand...
Okc had harding but not Durant bc he spent half of almost every game in that series in foul trouble.
 
D-TOWN REP said:
The poll :smh:

What are y'all basing this on???
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Put kobe on that same Miami team and I bet they would have did better. People don't want to count kobe rings with Shaq well don't count lebron's rings with bosh and wade. Then his record in those final losses is 12 loses and 3 wins but we all know it's never bc of lebron.
 
l9ikjam said:
Put kobe on that same Miami team and I bet they would have did better. People don't want to count kobe rings with Shaq well don't count lebron's rings with bosh and wade. Then his record in those final losses is 12 loses and 3 wins but we all know it's never bc of lebron.
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Take Lebron off the Heat and put an in his prime Kobe on the team they still aren't beating the Spurs bro

Now take Wade off and add that same Kobe they fuck around and sweep the Spurs tho :lol:

Lebron would have no problem playing off of Kobe

But I don't disagree without Lebron going to Miami he wouldn't have any rings

But don't act like Lebron wouldn't have won with a early 2000s Shaq

Let's take the titles out of it cuz you can try and taint both players rings if you wanted to for arguments sake

My opinion is based on the player

Lebron is the better player
 
D-TOWN REP said:
The poll :smh:

What are y'all basing this on???
Click to expand...

D-TOWN REP said:
Take Lebron off the Heat and put an in his prime Kobe on the team they still aren't beating the Spurs bro

Now take Wade off and add that same Kobe they fuck around and sweep the Spurs tho :lol:

Lebron would have no problem playing off of Kobe

But I don't disagree without Lebron going to Miami he wouldn't have any rings

But don't act like Lebron wouldn't have won with a early 2000s Shaq

Let's take the titles out of it cuz you can try and taint both players rings if you wanted to for arguments sake

My opinion is based on the player

Lebron is the better player
Click to expand...
^Bump^

Dudes got mad at me for dropping this :lol:
HeathCliff said:
30vp55z.jpg
Click to expand...
 
D-TOWN REP said:
The poll :smh:

What are y'all basing this on???
Click to expand...

:lol: This poll is on a run like the Spurs against the Heat-- There have been 59 votes since Game 3 and they run 55-4 (93%-7%) against LeBron. :eek:

Before Game 3-
View Poll Results:
LeBron James has already surpassed Kobe Bryant
Yes- 48, 51.06%
No- 46, 49.94%
Voters: 94.

At this moment-
View Poll Results:
LeBron James has already surpassed Kobe Bryant
Yes- 52, 33.99%
No- 101, 66.01%
Voters: 153.​

Sports fans are fickle. The biggest reversal I've ever seen on a poll here.
 

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