Dispelling a Myth: Part 1 - Kobe Bryant is a clutch player

[cranrab]

Re: Dispelling a Myth: Part 1 - tobe Bryant is a clutch player

since this thread is about 'clutch' play, and some people demand 'current' information, how about last night's game against the nets?

Q4, fakers down by 3, 13 seconds to play:

(0:00) End Period
(0:00) [NJN] Kidd Rebound (Off:1 Def:3)
(0:02) [LAL] Bryant Jump Shot: Missed
(0:13) [NJN] Krstic Substitution replaced by Vaughn
(0:13) [LAL] Brown Substitution replaced by Cook
(0:13) [LAL] Team Timeout: Regular
(0:13) [NJN 92-89] Krstic Tip Shot: Made (26 PTS)

*yawn* fakers LOSE

BTW, for the fakers bandwagon scapegoaters, before you start talking all that usual BULLSHIT about 'no supporting cast':

william parker 5-10 FGAs
lamar odom 7-11 FGAs
brian cook 4-6 FGAs
kwame brown 1-2 FGAs
luke walton 5-9 FGAs
sasha vujacic 2-4 FGAs

that's 57.1% shooting from the keystone fakers...

how 'bout the world's greatest basketball player?

tobe 9-24 FGAs, GAME HIGH (not TEAM high) 7 TOs, GAME HIGH (not TEAM high) 5 PFs...

that's 37.5% shooting from the euro turd, and 20+ changes of possession for the nets FROM ONE PERSON... think the fakers stood a better chance of winning if tobe wasn't so 'talented'?

 

[SpiritualPorn]

Re: Dispelling a Myth: Part 1 - tobe Bryant is a clutch player

since this thread is about 'clutch' play, and some people demand 'current' information, how about last night's game against the nets?

Q4, fakers down by 3, 13 seconds to play:

(0:00) End Period
(0:00) [NJN] Kidd Rebound (Off:1 Def:3)
(0:02) [LAL] Bryant Jump Shot: Missed
(0:13) [NJN] Krstic Substitution replaced by Vaughn
(0:13) [LAL] Brown Substitution replaced by Cook
(0:13) [LAL] Team Timeout: Regular
(0:13) [NJN 92-89] Krstic Tip Shot: Made (26 PTS)

*yawn* fakers LOSE

BTW, for the fakers bandwagon scapegoaters, before you start talking all that usual BULLSHIT about 'no supporting cast':

william parker 5-10 FGAs
lamar odom 7-11 FGAs
brian cook 4-6 FGAs
kwame brown 1-2 FGAs
luke walton 5-9 FGAs
sasha vujacic 2-4 FGAs

that's 57.1% shooting from the keystone fakers...

how 'bout the world's greatest basketball player?

tobe 9-24 FGAs, GAME HIGH (not TEAM high) 7 TOs, GAME HIGH (not TEAM high) 5 PFs...

that's 37.5% shooting from the euro turd, and 20+ changes of possession for the nets FROM ONE PERSON... think the fakers stood a better chance of winning if tobe wasn't so 'talented'?

More Proof of Tobe's hype:

[FRAME]http://82games.com/random12.htm[/FRAME]

[FRAME]http://www.82games.com/0506/05LAL7E.HTM[/FRAME]

 

[xfactor]

Well, maybe one day he'll make one...

(0:07) [CLE] Team Timeout: Regular
(0:07) [CLE] Gooden Substitution replaced by Marshall
(0:07) [CLE] Snow Substitution replaced by Jones
(0:04) [LAL] Odom Foul: Personal (4 PF)
(0:03) [LAL] Bryant Foul: Personal (4 PF)
(0:03) [CLE] Murray Free Throw 1 of 2 missed
(0:03) [CLE] Team Rebound
(0:03) [CLE] Jones Substitution replaced by Snow
(0:03) [CLE] Marshall Substitution replaced by Gooden
(0:03) [CLE 96-95] Murray Free Throw 2 of 2 (21 PTS)
(0:03) [LAL] Team Timeout: Regular
(0:03) [LAL] Brown Substitution replaced by Vujacic
(0:03) [CLE] Ilgauskas Substitution replaced by Varejao
(0:03) [CLE] Gooden Substitution replaced by Newble
(0:00) [LAL] Bryant Jump Shot: Missed

I everytime I see Wobe take a bullshit H-O-R-S-E shot at the end of the game and miss when he has 2 or more of his teammates wide open.


*EDIT* Good post with that site SP ... I should post it on the main board next time some fool starts runnin' off at the mouth about Wobe just to find the humor at all of Wobe's boy toys coming out of the woodwork to defend their fallen hero.

 

[TimRock]

he stunk it up this weekend. he played stupidly. Thats all i can say.

 

[SpiritualPorn]

he stunk it up this weekend. he played stupidly. Thats all i can say.

Now we can talk......

I saw Kobe light it up in the first quarter...hitting shots,ASSISTS, drawing the double team and PASSING. Notice the lead when he played team ball?

I said to myself "has Kobe finally gotten it?" Then I quickly corrected myself. In any NBA game,the hot shooting will slow down. Thats when players have to be commited to driving to get contact and a foul , and defense. Kobe's outside shot was hitting in the first half,so I figured that he would keep taking these long, fast break creating shots and it will hurt the team.

Sure enough come second half hit shot cools of. Does he concentrate on assists,rebounding or defense? (although I thought he had a pretty good defensive game...) No!!!! He keeps jacking up bs shot after shot and disrupted the flow Odom and Parker were rolling with in the first half.

I would almost feel sorry for him except that he basically threw the Championship series with Detroit and broke up the team shortly afterwards.
Did anyone see the Caron Butler highlights from the Wizards game? He was doing the same things here in Miami. Kobe couldn't play with him for some reason.

The Lakers better make the playoffs or we might start hearing Kobe for Lebron rumors very soon. (Lebron on the Lakers would be like putting Nash with Phoinex. With his ability to let his teammates shine James would make the current Lakers staff seem like stars)

 

[TimRock]

Now we can talk......

I saw Kobe light it up in the first quarter...hitting shots,ASSISTS, drawing the double team and PASSING. Notice the lead when he played team ball?

I said to myself "has Kobe finally gotten it?" Then I quickly corrected myself. In any NBA game,the hot shooting will slow down. Thats when players have to be commited to driving to get contact and a foul , and defense. Kobe's outside shot was hitting in the first half,so I figured that he would keep taking these long, fast break creating shots and it will hurt the team.

Sure enough come second half hit shot cools of. Does he concentrate on assists,rebounding or defense? (although I thought he had a pretty good defensive game...) No!!!! He keeps jacking up bs shot after shot and disrupted the flow Odom and Parker were rolling with in the first half.

I would almost feel sorry for him except that he basically threw the Championship series with Detroit and broke up the team shortly afterwards.
Did anyone see the Caron Butler highlights from the Wizards game? He was doing the same things here in Miami. Kobe couldn't play with him for some reason.

The Lakers better make the playoffs or we might start hearing Kobe for Lebron rumors very soon. (Lebron on the Lakers would be like putting Nash with Phoinex. With his ability to let his teammates shine James would make the current Lakers staff seem like stars)

The lakers should have kept caron and chucky. We probably would have been fighting phoenix for that division title. What does Phil Jackson say to him when he doesnt spot open team maters like that? Phil probably dont say shit, as long as he gets his money. But kobe is hurting them right now. He be playing good in the first half, then the second half come and it seems like hes obsessed with trying score every basket. Odom and Walton are starting to play real good, kobe better start realizing that and use them as his pippen and kukoc. Smush should have screamed on him for not passing the ball on that last possession. Even Vujacic (whatever) is starting to be more agrresive.

 

[cranrab]

from the l.a. times

is the media always responsible for scapegoating?

NO.

sometimes the 'world's greatest basketball player' SCAPEGOATS his own teammates...

The Lakers flubbed their final chance, Walton pausing a few seconds as he inbounded from the left side before finding Bryant in traffic several feet outside the three-point line. Bryant launched a 31-foot three-pointer that bounced hard off the back of the rim, then turned to Walton and shook his head in frustration, gesturing angrily that a timeout should have been called.

Laker Coach Phil Jackson concurred. "I think [Walton] got drawn into the play and that was a decision that he didn't make right," he said.

Said Walton: "I guess I could have called timeout, but in a 48-minute game, we didn't lose because I didn't call a timeout. There's a lot of things we did bad. I was trying to look at cutters [getting] open and I'd seen Kobe cut to the ball so I threw it to him."

what a great teammate....

 

[xfactor]

he stunk it up this weekend. he played stupidly. Thats all i can say.

This is what we've been trying to tell you. Too bad the play has been going on for YEARS and not just this weekend.

is the media always responsible for scapegoating?

NO.

sometimes the 'world's greatest basketball player' SCAPEGOATS his own teammates...

The Lakers flubbed their final chance, Walton pausing a few seconds as he inbounded from the left side before finding Bryant in traffic several feet outside the three-point line. Bryant launched a 31-foot three-pointer that bounced hard off the back of the rim, then turned to Walton and shook his head in frustration, gesturing angrily that a timeout should have been called.

Laker Coach Phil Jackson concurred. "I think [Walton] got drawn into the play and that was a decision that he didn't make right," he said.

Said Walton: "I guess I could have called timeout, but in a 48-minute game, we didn't lose because I didn't call a timeout. There's a lot of things we did bad. I was trying to look at cutters [getting] open and I'd seen Kobe cut to the ball so I threw it to him."

what a great teammate....

You'd think that after completely tanking the second half, he would point out one play at the end to blame the loss on his own teammate

I dont know why Phil Jackson was taking up for Wobe at the end there but I'm glad Luke stood up for himself, telling the TRUTH about how that one play was not the reason why they took the L.

 

[SpiritualPorn]

This is what we've been trying to tell you. Too bad the play has been going on for YEARS and not just this weekend.



You'd think that after completely tanking the second half, he would point out one play at the end to blame the loss on his own teammate

I dont know why Phil Jackson was taking up for Wobe at the end there but I'm glad Luke stood up for himself, telling the TRUTH about how that one play was not the reason why they took the L.

Phil must be feeling real guilty about that book he wrote.....

You lose a 15 point lead and were talking about time outs? Time OUTS???????

What part of the game is that??????

Kobe still doesn't get it.......

X-Fac....what is Phil's angle ? Why does he let this shit go? Is he scared to confront Kobe?

Youre welcome on the web site......Got it on www.insidehoops.com. That message board has some crazy fans.

 

[xfactor]

How did I miss this post...

X-Fac....what is Phil's angle ? Why does he let this shit go? Is he scared to confront Kobe?

Youre welcome on the web site......Got it on www.insidehoops.com. That message board has some crazy fans.

I dont think he does care. Coach Jackson knows that there is no way in hell that that team is going to be a legit contender so I think he is just trying to atleast get them looking respectable in the public's eye, create a buzz about the team so they wont fade away amongst the rest of the NBA's elite. That's one reason I feel he allowed Wobe to score 81 points in the game, allows for Wobe to tank games (or play into the opposition's game plan) with his wreckless style of play where the game will be kept close to the point where a dramatic finish is needed.

To be honest, I cant even tell you the method to his madness, just speculation. I'm sure he is at that team every night. I dont believe you can write a book ripping a player, then get cool with him again like it never happened? Something aint right there...

And that $10 million/year contract cant hurt either. Phil's going to have a nice retirement.

Oh yeah, I peeped that site too... Some of the funniest threads/posts I have ever seen.

http://p089.ezboard.com/finsidehoopsfrm1.showMessage?topicID=72539.topic

@ people continuing to say that Wobe has to hoist all those FGA because his teammates cant consistently knock down shots, yet every single starter shoots a higher FG % than him.

 

[SpiritualPorn]

How did I miss this post...



I dont think he does care. Coach Jackson knows that there is no way in hell that that team is going to be a legit contender so I think he is just trying to atleast get them looking respectable in the public's eye, create a buzz about the team so they wont fade away amongst the rest of the NBA's elite. That's one reason I feel he allowed Wobe to score 81 points in the game, allows for Wobe to tank games (or play into the opposition's game plan) with his wreckless style of play where the game will be kept close to the point where a dramatic finish is needed.

To be honest, I cant even tell you the method to his madness, just speculation. I'm sure he is at that team every night. I dont believe you can write a book ripping a player, then get cool with him again like it never happened? Something aint right there...

And that $10 million/year contract cant hurt either. Phil's going to have a nice retirement.

Oh yeah, I peeped that site too... Some of the funniest threads/posts I have ever seen.

http://p089.ezboard.com/finsidehoopsfrm1.showMessage?topicID=72539.topic

@ people continuing to say that Wobe has to hoist all those FGA because his teammates cant consistently knock down shots, yet every single starter shoots a higher FG % than him.

I really can't see him being heart and soul into the team. He doesn't even rip Kobe in the press. Arguing with teammates , hitting them , insulting them , doesn't help out. I see him leaving pretty soon. I don't see him enjoying it at all.

 

[xfactor]

Looks like the 9 year veteran should take lessons from Carmelo Anthony because it is clear who is the more dangerous player in the clutch...

(0:43) [DEN 108-108] Miller Free Throw 2 of 2 (15 PTS)
(0:23) [LAL] Bryant Jump Shot: Missed Block: Patterson (2 BLK)
(0:20) [LAL] Parker Rebound (Off:2 Def:1)
(0:18) [LAL] Walton Jump Shot: Missed
(0:16) [LAL] Bryant Rebound (Off:3 Def:5)
(0:14) [LAL] Bryant Layup Shot: Missed
(0:13) [DEN] Camby Rebound (Off:2 Def:9)
(0:03) [DEN 110-108] Anthony Jump Shot: Made (33 PTS)
(0:03) [LAL] Team Timeout: Regular
(0:03) [LAL] Team Timeout: Regular
(0:00) [LAL] Walton Jump Shot: Missed
(0:00) [LAL] Team Rebound
(0:00) End Period


@ Mr Clutch. I dont know whats worse. His performance down the stretch of games or people actually thinking he is an MVP candidate.

 

[SpiritualPorn]

Looks like the 9 year veteran should take lessons from Carmelo Anthony because it is clear who is the more dangerous player in the clutch...

(0:43) [DEN 108-108] Miller Free Throw 2 of 2 (15 PTS)
(0:23) [LAL] Bryant Jump Shot: Missed Block: Patterson (2 BLK)
(0:20) [LAL] Parker Rebound (Off:2 Def:1)
(0:18) [LAL] Walton Jump Shot: Missed
(0:16) [LAL] Bryant Rebound (Off:3 Def:5)
(0:14) [LAL] Bryant Layup Shot: Missed
(0:13) [DEN] Camby Rebound (Off:2 Def:9)
(0:03) [DEN 110-108] Anthony Jump Shot: Made (33 PTS)
(0:03) [LAL] Team Timeout: Regular
(0:03) [LAL] Team Timeout: Regular
(0:00) [LAL] Walton Jump Shot: Missed
(0:00) [LAL] Team Rebound
(0:00) End Period


@ Mr Clutch. I dont know whats worse. His performance down the stretch of games or people actually thinking he is an MVP candidate.

My Heat lost last night so I am not in a good mood.

Phil's worst season as a coach and people are all over Kobe's jock. They will learn.

I was reading "Jordan, In His Own Words" this morning. Phil had problems with Jordan taking too many shots also. He would always tell Jordan to get his teammates involved. This was when they were winning championships mind you. Phil coached Dennis Rodman. Only until he came across Kobe did he say that a player is uncoachable.

Kobe may have peaked as far as skills are concerned as evidenced that he is more of a fadeaway jump shooter now. His mental game can only get better. His EGO???????? We'll see.

 

[cranrab]

Re: Dispelling a Myth: Part 1 - tobe is a clutch player nuggets v. fakers

Looks like the 9 year veteran should take lessons from Carmelo Anthony because it is clear who is the more dangerous player in the clutch...

(0:43) [DEN 108-108] Miller Free Throw 2 of 2 (15 PTS)
(0:23) [LAL] Bryant Jump Shot: Missed Block: Patterson (2 BLK)
(0:20) [LAL] Parker Rebound (Off:2 Def:1)
(0:18) [LAL] Walton Jump Shot: Missed
(0:16) [LAL] Bryant Rebound (Off:3 Def:5)
(0:14) [LAL] Bryant Layup Shot: Missed
(0:13) [DEN] Camby Rebound (Off:2 Def:9)
(0:03) [DEN 110-108] Anthony Jump Shot: Made (33 PTS)
(0:03) [LAL] Team Timeout: Regular
(0:03) [LAL] Team Timeout: Regular
(0:00) [LAL] Walton Jump Shot: Missed
(0:00) [LAL] Team Rebound
(0:00) End Period


@ Mr Clutch. I dont know whats worse. His performance down the stretch of games or people actually thinking he is an MVP candidate.

i watched the game last night, and 1 factor really stuck out like a sore thumb... down the stretch of regulation, the nuggets took the ball out of carmelo anthony's hands... the nuggets lost their lead, the fakers tied, and the game went into OT... i'm sure coach karl didn't draw the play up for buckner to take the last shot...

something interesting about that play-by-play too... it said that patterson blocked tobe's shot, but it looked like tobe simply bricked the shot...

on a play prior to that, tobe got caught jumping in the air to make a pass, and ended up having to chuck a line drive at the front of the rim from about 10 feet away... the shot missed of course, but what EXCELLENT fundamentals!

 

[cranrab]

Oh yeah, I peeped that site too... Some of the funniest threads/posts I have ever seen.

here's some more amusement courtesy of fakers fans.

tonight, before the suns v. fakers game, kcal 9 (the fakers road game television station) did a viewer poll. the question?

who is the BEST GUARD in fakers history?

tobe?

earvin johnson?

jerry west?

tobe won the poll. earvin johnson came in 2nd. jerry west finished last.

 

[SpiritualPorn]

Re: Dispelling a Myth: Part 1 - tobe is a clutch player nuggets v. fakers

i watched the game last night, and 1 factor really stuck out like a sore thumb... down the stretch of regulation, the nuggets took the ball out of carmelo anthony's hands... the nuggets lost their lead, the fakers tied, and the game went into OT... i'm sure coach karl didn't draw the play up for buckner to take the last shot...

something interesting about that play-by-play too... it said that patterson blocked tobe's shot, but it looked like tobe simply bricked the shot...

on a play prior to that, tobe got caught jumping in the air to make a pass, and ended up having to chuck a line drive at the front of the rim from about 10 feet away... the shot missed of course, but what EXCELLENT fundamentals!

Didn't see that game. Get your point though.

The same things you point out about the press inflation of certain players can be applied to political candidates, movie stars, and music stars.

With sports there are wins and losses. Thats what seperates it from the other forms of entertainment.

I don't know if it's me or what however the press at this time in history seems to be more and more telling people what to think as opposed to showing us whats going on and letting us make up our own mind.

The Kobe story exemplifies this type of mind control.

Cran, the story you posted about Kobe in the In his own words thread is damn near word for word from the book I have on MJ. It's all BS. When a Lakers fan comes here trying to defend Kobe it seems like they are mind controlled. It goes back to what you said before about people accepting the first premise.

Do you have anymore information on that.

 

[SpiritualPorn]

here's some more amusement courtesy of fakers fans.

tonight, before the suns v. fakers game, kcal 9 (the fakers road game television station) did a viewer poll. the question?

who is the BEST GUARD in fakers history?

tobe?

earvin johnson?

jerry west?

tobe won the poll. earvin johnson came in 2nd. jerry west finished last.

Kobe is cannot hold Magic's used condoms.

I remember Magic in his rookie season in the finals playing center after Kareem went down with injury. Scored 42.

There was no moving the old man out of town with Magic. Magic , through his play pretty much allowed Kareem to play into his 40's.

Magic could score anytime he wanted to and chose to pass. Magic played trapping team defense and led the break like no other.

Magic led the lakers to the finals how many times?

People are really stupid.

 

[cranrab]

tobe is SOOOOO clutch! SCIENCE

so, game 1 of the playoffs, suns v. fakers.

the fakers are tied with the sun going in to Q4... why? because the fakers managed to limit tobe to only 10 FGs through 3 quarters... that put the fakers in a position to get the W...

too bad primadonna tobe wanted to outshine the team in Q4... tobe took 11 FGAs (MORE FGAs in Q4 than the previous 3 quarters COMBINED? ) in Q4 and the fakers trailed the entire final 12 minutes...



clutch in Q4?

clutch in the playoffs?

BTW, is anyone else laughing at hubie brown and the dumb cracker claiming that tobe got fouled by tim thomas on the drive?

the supposed 'knot' (alleged to have been caused by the PHANTOM foul) on tobe's forehead was on his LEFT side. tim thomas swiped at the ball on tobe's RIGHT side. some people will make up RIDICULOUS excuses for his piss poor play...

more proof that tobe is a whiney, ref baiting nut hugger...

 

[TimRock]

Re: tobe is SOOOOO clutch! SCIENCE

so, game 1 of the playoffs, suns v. fakers.

the fakers are tied with the sun going in to Q4... why? because the fakers managed to limit tobe to only 10 FGs through 3 quarters... that put the fakers in a position to get the W...

too bad primadonna tobe wanted to outshine the team in Q4... tobe took 11 FGAs (MORE FGAs in Q4 than the previous 3 quarters COMBINED? ) in Q4 and the fakers trailed the entire final 12 minutes...



clutch in Q4?

clutch in the playoffs?


more proof that tobe is a whiney, ref baiting nut hugger...

You do know there were 7 other games this weekend right? To tell you the truth, I dont think any Kobe fans are replying except me. The people that hate Kobe are the ones that are keeping these threads alive. So who's the real kobe fans?

BTW, is anyone else laughing at hubie brown and the dumb cracker claiming that tobe got fouled by tim thomas on the drive?

the supposed 'knot' (alleged to have been caused by the PHANTOM foul) on tobe's forehead was on his LEFT side. tim thomas swiped at the ball on tobe's RIGHT side. some people will make up RIDICULOUS excuses for his piss poor play...

I see you are paying close attention to Kobe huh.

 

[cranrab]

Re: tobe is SOOOOO clutch! SCIENCE

I see you are paying close attention to Kobe huh.

uh, it's kind of hard not to pay attention to tobe when the nine REAL athletes around him want to play ball, but he's holding up the game, steady whining to referees begging for fouls. what a great sportsman and true competitor you must be if you have to LIE about getting fouled just to hide the fact that you pulled a boner in clutch time...

if you watched the game, you might've noticed that tim thomas swiped at the BALL from BEHIND tobe's RIGHT side. yet tobe was berating the officials for not calling a foul, pointing to a knot on the LEFT side of his forehead. yeah, right. we'll call that the 'magic bullet' theory...

no fakers or tobe fans are replying except you because like you, they can't face FACTS. from all your replies today, NONE have even attempted to address FACTS. wonder why that is?

because everything i've written is correct?

 

[TimRock]

Re: tobe is SOOOOO clutch! SCIENCE

because everything i've written is correct?

I never denied your facts, and I credit you for taking the time to configure these facts for someone you don't like. But yet, my question still hasnt been addressed either. If you dont like Kobe or his style of play, why are you hanging on everything he does? If you don't like the way beer tastes, would you keep drinking it? You proved your point, along with the others, about Kobes fga's or whatever else. And they are pretty good facts. But what do you care? It seems like you are obsessed with him.

You dont like him or his style of play, but yet you pay close attention to everything he does. As soon as a game is over, or even during, you run to your computer and let us no what happened. We have cable. Some of us even have the league pass so we can pay attention to what the other teams are doing.

I'm really starting to believe that Kobe hurt you in some kind of way. Maybe it was you that asked for a pair of sneakers, or for his autograph, or maybe you are a fan of one of the teams that the Lakers beat on their way to winning 3 rings. Or maybe you are related to that chic who said kobe raped her. Who knows?

no fakers or tobe fans are replying except you because like you, they can't face FACTS. from all your replies today, NONE have even attempted to address FACTS. wonder why that is?

who said i couldnt face facts? I never denied anything you guys posted. I agreed with most of it actually. Who am i to disagree with facts. I never called anyone a liar or asked them for their sources to the stats they posted.

Everytime a basketball conversation is started, SOMEONE turns the whole conversations towards Kobe or the Lakers. Wonder why that is?

I know why.

 

[SpiritualPorn]

Re: tobe is SOOOOO clutch! SCIENCE

You dont like him or his style of play, but yet you pay close attention to everything he does. As soon as a game is over, or even during, you run to your computer and let us no what happened. We have cable. Some of us even have the league pass so we can pay attention to what the other teams are doing.

I'm really starting to believe that Kobe hurt you in some kind of way. Maybe it was you that asked for a pair of sneakers, or for his autograph, or maybe you are a fan of one of the teams that the Lakers beat on their way to winning 3 rings. Or maybe you are related to that chic who said kobe raped her. Who knows?



who said i couldnt face facts? I never denied anything you guys posted. I agreed with most of it actually. Who am i to disagree with facts. I never called anyone a liar or asked them for their sources to the stats they posted.

Everytime a basketball conversation is started, SOMEONE turns the whole conversations towards Kobe or the Lakers. Wonder why that is?

I know why.

I think Kobe draws the most ire because the press is constantly making him the best player playing and he is not.

Kobe can score....no doubt.

His BBall intel is lacking. He played well yesterday though.

The Lakers are one of the best franchises in sports history. To see this kid fuckin up is worth a shoutout.

I still remember when Grant Hill and Vince Carter got more all star votes than Jordan. I can still remember how the press tried to make alot of Jordans and Birds.

Kobe goes to the podium and says he took alot of bail out shots. That is not taking responsibility as a team leader.

 

[TimRock]

Re: tobe is SOOOOO clutch! SCIENCE

I think Kobe draws the most ire because the press is constantly making him the best player playing and he is not.

Kobe can score....no doubt.

His BBall intel is lacking. He played well yesterday though.

The Lakers are one of the best franchises in sports history. To see this kid fuckin up is worth a shoutout.

I still remember when Grant Hill and Vince Carter got more all star votes than Jordan. I can still remember how the press tried to make alot of Jordans and Birds.

Kobe goes to the podium and says he took alot of bail out shots. That is not taking responsibility as a team leader.

So let me ask you a question. What is he not doing or hasn't done, that T-Mac, Vince, KG, Paul Pierce, Jason Richardson, Dirk, Pau Gasol, Arenas and lets say Elton Brand, have done or are doing? Whats the difference between all of them? Why are those players that i mentioned, not talked about because of the things they fail to do. None of them have rings, so are they doing something wrong? Let me guess, its not their fault that they havent won championships, its because of who they are playing with. So doesn't this fall in the subject of making your teammates better? Why is Kobe (at least on here) so hated because of the decisions he makes on the court or for his style of play, and not these others? None of those players have accomplished the things that kobe has. And you all can say, that without Shaq, kobe wouldnt have a ring. The same thing can be said for Pippen, David Robinson, Clyde Drexler, and Tony Parker. They all needed someone to help them. So one man does not deserve all the credit. Just like one man can't be blamed for his team losing games. Is Pierce responsible for the C's not making the playoffs, how about KG and Richardson. Is it their fault? Or is it managements fault. A

As good as one player is, there is always someone better. That's why only one teams wins it all. When the Spurs lost to the lakers, who did they place the blame on? I didnt see reports saying Parker is this, or Duncan is that. But the Lakers lose, and its all Kobes fault. You can't win every game you play. And every shot is not gonna fall.

For the record, I am a kobe fan, and i do not dispute the facts you guys have posted. But these same facts can be said for a lof of players. AI shoots 10 for 34, but everyone else shoots 50% or more, and they lose. Is it AI's fault that they lost? Vince shot 12 for 33 (i believe) yesterday. Is it his fault they lost? You cant blame just one person, cause its not like theres only person playing defense.

 

[SpiritualPorn]

Re: tobe is SOOOOO clutch! SCIENCE

So let me ask you a question. What is he not doing or hasn't done, that T-Mac, Vince, KG, Paul Pierce, Jason Richardson, Dirk, Pau Gasol, Arenas and lets say Elton Brand, have done or are doing? Whats the difference between all of them? Why are those players that i mentioned, not talked about because of the things they fail to do. None of them have rings, so are they doing something wrong?

We are told Kobe is better. None of the players mentioned have fucked up a Dynasty.

Let me guess, its not their fault that they havent won championships, its because of who they are playing with. So doesn't this fall in the subject of making your teammates better? Why is Kobe (at least on here) so hated because of the decisions he makes on the court or for his style of play, and not these others? None of those players have accomplished the things that kobe has.

Exactly why he gets the scrunity

And you all can say, that without Shaq, kobe wouldnt have a ring. The same thing can be said for Pippen, David Robinson, Clyde Drexler, and Tony Parker. They all needed someone to help them.

Lets observe Magic and Kareem. Magic: humble,team player,can take over a game, hit game winning finals shots.

Let's observe Kobe and Shaq: According to Celiz article on MSNBC.com:

Bryant is the kind of player who will lose a game to make a point. It could be that's what he was doing Sunday — showing the fans what they can expect when he plays within the offense. It could be that now that he's made his point, he'll take the next game over to prove that without him, there is nothing.

So one man does not deserve all the credit. Just like one man can't be blamed for his team losing games. Is Pierce responsible for the C's not making the playoffs, how about KG and Richardson. Is it their fault? Or is it managements fault.

If you take credit when the team wins , you have to do the same when they lose. Most people would have us beleive that kobe plays with CBA players fresh off the AND1 tour. Not true.

For the record, I am a kobe fan, and i do not dispute the facts you guys have posted. But these same facts can be said for a lof of players. AI shoots 10 for 34, but everyone else shoots 50% or more, and they lose. Is it AI's fault that they lost? Vince shot 12 for 33 (i believe) yesterday. Is it his fault they lost? You cant blame just one person, cause its not like theres only person playing defense.

Then don't give one person the credit for winning.

AI is the same way...shoot first. However Iverson carried a very bad team to the finals. As much as I like Vince he has shown to choke in the playoffs. He is not as driven to greatness as Kobe.

The series is not over yet...lets wait and see.

 

[TimRock]

Re: tobe is SOOOOO clutch! SCIENCE

We are told Kobe is better. None of the players mentioned have fucked up a Dynasty.




Exactly why he gets the scrunity



Lets observe Magic and Kareem. Magic: humble,team player,can take over a game, hit game winning finals shots.

Let's observe Kobe and Shaq: According to Celiz article on MSNBC.com:

Bryant is the kind of player who will lose a game to make a point. It could be that's what he was doing Sunday — showing the fans what they can expect when he plays within the offense. It could be that now that he's made his point, he'll take the next game over to prove that without him, there is nothing.




If you take credit when the team wins , you have to do the same when they lose. Most people would have us beleive that kobe plays with CBA players fresh off the AND1 tour. Not true.





Then don't give one person the credit for winning.

AI is the same way...shoot first. However Iverson carried a very bad team to the finals. As much as I like Vince he has shown to choke in the playoffs. He is not as driven to greatness as Kobe.

The series is not over yet...lets wait and see.

Can't argue with this. Point very well taken.

 

[cranrab]

Re: tobe is SOOOOO clutch! SCIENCE

If you dont like Kobe or his style of play, why are you hanging on everything he does? But what do you care? It seems like you are obsessed with him. You dont like him or his style of play, but yet you pay close attention to everything he does.

i don't hang on everything tobe does. i don't write threads with inane comparisons of tobe to michael jordan. i don't write threads with absurd suggestions that tobe is a MVP candidate, much less an MVP.

i DO take the time to refute those and the multitude of other outrageous claims tobe fans make.

for example, i also love cinema. if someone were to suggest that 'jaws 3' or 'cheech and chong's the corsican brothers' were superior films to 'star wars' or 'the godfather', i'd take them to task. according to you, that would mean i 'hang on' or am obsessed with bad movies.

i also love music. if someone were to say britney spears or jessica simpson was a better singer than billie holiday, i would take time to refute those claims. according to you, that would mean i 'hang on' or am obsessed with britney spears or jessica simpson.

As soon as a game is over, or even during, you run to your computer and let us no what happened.

i have whole house integrated media center. no need to 'run to a computer' when computer access is wirelessly available on all of my HDTVs throughout the house and on my projectors in my entertainment room. if you live in california or nevada, i can have a salesman contact you about installing a system like this of your own.

We have cable. Some of us even have the league pass so we can pay attention to what the other teams are doing.

few people watch the games. many of the people that do watch the games aren't capable of understanding what they're seeing.

I'm really starting to believe that Kobe hurt you in some kind of way.

you're correct. tobe has hurt myself and every fan of BASKETBALL in countless ways. tobe's euro piss poor game has moved the league BACKWARDS. tobe's lack of sportsmanship has sullied the GAME. tobe's lack of commitment to teamwork has besmirched the GAME.

Maybe it was you that asked for a pair of sneakers,

sorry, no. i would never ask for tobe's sneakers. and to get the story right, ron artest didn't ask for tobe's sneakers. ron artest BROUGHT A PAIR OF HIS OWN SNEAKERS for tobe to autograph and tobe refused.

or for his autograph

sorry, no again.

or maybe you are a fan of one of the teams that the Lakers beat on their way to winning 3 rings.

well, yes. shaquille o'neal and the fakers defeated the 76ers in the nba finals. but so what? i'm very complimentary of the GOOD players who ACTUALLY positively contributed to the fakers championship runs: shaquille o'neal, robert horry, devean george, derek fisher, brian fisher to name just a few.

Or maybe you are related to that chic who said kobe raped her. Who knows?

LOL. i never have to worry about that. tobe doesn't care for my (our?) women.

 

[cranrab]

Re: tobe is SOOOOO clutch! SCIENCE

Kobe goes to the podium and says he took alot of bail out shots. That is not taking responsibility as a team leader.

here is tobe's disingenuous remark:

"I had to take a lot of bail-out shots tonight," Bryant said. "I wasn't looking to attack or assert myself, it is just a matter of finding that groove. All I need is one jumper, then I know I'll get hot. We were keying on the other guys. Look at the open opportunities our other guys had."

what a piece of shit. not only is this shovelling dirt on his teammates, but typical of tobe, it is a PURE LIE. if you have the video, look at tobe's Q4 shots. if you don't have the video, look at the Q4 play by play and note the shot clock when tobe chucked his bricks. tobe wasn't hot-potatoed by his teammates; tobe abandoned a disciplined game plan due to his stupidity and immaturity.

read this post game quote and see tobe absolve himself of the loss:

"I listen to the big guy," Bryant said, gesturing toward Jackson. "That's who I play for. If he says go out there and shoot the ball 50 times, that's what I'm going to do. I just follow his orders, follow his lead, and try to play the way he wants me to play, to the best of my ability."

 

[TimRock]

Re: tobe is SOOOOO clutch! SCIENCE

i have whole house integrated media center. no need to 'run to a computer' when computer access is wirelessly available on all of my HDTVs throughout the house and on my projectors in my entertainment room. if you live in california or nevada, i can have a salesman contact you about installing a system like this of your own.

Ha ha ha Thats pretty funny. I almost spit out my bagel. Thanks for the offer, but its not needed. Im fine with what i have. I wont go in to details about it, cause its not important and thats not my style.

Ok, I'm done with the back and forth stuff, it was fun. I know you all enjoyed it. But its getting boring and we all have our different views. So no one will win the argument.

BTW Cran, Who do you have winning it all? Who's your favorite player, and favorite team?

 

[SpiritualPorn]

Re: tobe is SOOOOO clutch! SCIENCE

here is tobe's disingenuous remark:

"I had to take a lot of bail-out shots tonight," Bryant said. "I wasn't looking to attack or assert myself, it is just a matter of finding that groove. All I need is one jumper, then I know I'll get hot. We were keying on the other guys. Look at the open opportunities our other guys had."

what a piece of shit. not only is this shovelling dirt on his teammates, but typical of tobe, it is a PURE LIE. if you have the video, look at tobe's Q4 shots. if you don't have the video, look at the Q4 play by play and note the shot clock when tobe chucked his bricks. tobe wasn't hot-potatoed by his teammates; tobe abandoned a disciplined game plan due to his stupidity and immaturity.

read this post game quote and see tobe absolve himself of the loss:

"I listen to the big guy," Bryant said, gesturing toward Jackson. "That's who I play for. If he says go out there and shoot the ball 50 times, that's what I'm going to do. I just follow his orders, follow his lead, and try to play the way he wants me to play, to the best of my ability."

Sounds like the Kobe I hope to see grow beyond this. Blaming teammates and coaches. He never gives them credit when they win though.

Time will tell

 

[cranrab]

Re: tobe is SOOOOO clutch! SCIENCE

BTW Cran, Who do you have winning it all? Who's your favorite player, and favorite team?

winning it all?

nothing exciting. if TD stays healthy, san antonio. if TD isn't healthy, detroit. who am i rooting for? miami.

favorite player? not currently playing? a few. joe dumars. moses malone. julius erving. james worthy. alex english. maurice cheeks. too many to name. currently playing? none really come to mind. shaquille o'neal is an undeniable force, but not a favorite. TD has fantastic skills, but not really a favorite either. ray allen has an incredible stroke, so maybe him.

favorite team? no question. philadelphia 76ers for the past 27 years.

 

[TimRock]

Re: tobe is SOOOOO clutch! SCIENCE

favorite team? no question. philadelphia 76ers for the past 27 years.

So what do you think the Sixers will do with Iverson and Webber this summer? What do you want them to do? I think Iverson should leave. Im pretty sure the sixers can get something good in return.

 

[SpiritualPorn]

Re: tobe is SOOOOO clutch! SCIENCE

winning it all?

nothing exciting. if TD stays healthy, san antonio. if TD isn't healthy, detroit. who am i rooting for? miami.

Why or why not will Miami beat Detroit Cran?

I would love the analysis on this one.

Thanks

 

[cranrab]

Re: tobe is SOOOOO clutch! SCIENCE

So what do you think the Sixers will do with Iverson and Webber this summer? What do you want them to do? I think Iverson should leave. Im pretty sure the sixers can get something good in return.

i don't have any idea what the 76ers will do with AI or CW. if nothing else, that club has been almost entirely unpredictable with personnel changes over the past 15 years.

what do i want them to do? i'd like to see AI stay put. unless the situation becomes one where he is unhappy with his environment (which i've not heard), then AI should stay with the team that he entered the league with. i'm not a big fan of players who chase rings (or franchises that do the same), and i like to see players on losing clubs stay and try to right the ship. to me, that's a sign of great character instead of abadoning ship when things get shaky.

regarding CW, i never thought the 76ers should have traded for him. not that CW isn't talented, but because he didn't mesh well. the 76ers gave up some young, athletic players who could defend, for an older, slower player who couldn't.

 

[cranrab]

Re: tobe is SOOOOO clutch! SCIENCE

Why or why not will Miami beat Detroit Cran?

well, i'm not entirely convinced that the heat could beat detroit. but if those 2 clubs did meet in the ECF, i'd be rooting for the heat. in a heat v. pistons matchup, antoine walker and james posey would be the deciding factors.

IMO, both of those players are careless and thoughtless shooters. and those are 2 HUGE liabilities against the detroit pistons because the pistons play GOOD team defense, can rebound the ball, and MOST OF ALL, play ball control basketball.

detroit reduces the number of possessions for the opposition, so each possession becomes extremely valuable. even if antoine walker and james posey only took a few bad shots each, those possessions would be enough to carry the pistons to victory in a sub 100 point game.

james posey should not be allowed to shoot the ball unless it is an open 3 off a double, or finishing in transition. and antoine walker makes me cringe every time he touches the damn ball.

those 2 players aside, how can you NOT like the chances of a team with shaquille o'neal on it? his performances against detroit speak for themselves.

 

[SpiritualPorn]

Re: tobe is SOOOOO clutch! SCIENCE

well, i'm not entirely convinced that the heat could beat detroit. but if those 2 clubs did meet in the ECF, i'd be rooting for the heat. in a heat v. pistons matchup, antoine walker and james posey would be the deciding factors.

Thats about how I see it. Moreso Walker. I think Posey should come off the bench with the second squad. JWill I think will force Billups to play more dfense than Damon "Jump in the air to pass turnover to blow the ECF" Jones. Billups was abusing Jones last year.

IMO, both of those players are careless and thoughtless shooters. and those are 2 HUGE liabilities against the detroit pistons because the pistons play GOOD team defense, can rebound the ball, and MOST OF ALL, play ball control basketball.

Agreed

detroit reduces the number of possessions for the opposition, so each possession becomes extremely valuable. even if antoine walker and james posey only took a few bad shots each, those possessions would be enough to carry the pistons to victory in a sub 100 point game.

Very good analysis. I didn't really observe it that way before

james posey should not be allowed to shoot the ball unless it is an open 3 off a double, or finishing in transition. and antoine walker makes me cringe every time he touches the damn ball.

Exactly. Toine has been playing much better lately. He should focus more on rebounding and defense. His passing is getting better also.

those 2 players aside, how can you NOT like the chances of a team with shaquille o'neal on it? his performances against detroit speak for themselves.

I would add that Wade has to be more careful with the ball. He get a bit lacksidasical with his handling. JWillis a better ball handler.
I have them beating Detroit. They were up 3-2 last year.

WE SHALL SEE.