BlackWaterUSA: Organzied Or Mercenaries
- Thread starter Steelwill2006
- Start date
Indeed. I've heard alot of Blackwater's teams are ex South African military, so Kaffa might be heard too.
I think this is their old recruitment poster . . .
I've got nothing against Blackwater...as a matter of fact I almost interviewed with them guys. More so those are the kinds og guys needed on the ground in the AOR. However some controls are needed to be ensured shit doesn't get out of hand i.e. itchy trigger fingers, drunken employees.
What do some of you think about this company? I think they are treated unfairly when it comes to a business standpoint. There is absolutely nothing to substantiate the claims by the media to indict anyone on criminal charges. The law is the law, and I say let these guys live.
A few key points surrounding the company:
The founder of black water is a former Navy Seal who inherited a fortune, along with his sisters, a sum of Billions.
Black water is located in NC.
They secured a contract of $1B dollars I believe in 2005
For every U.S. personnel in Iraq now, there are 100 private contractors in Iraq.
Black waters head quarters is half the size of Manhattan, NY
$145,000 is the most anyone can earn under a 12 month duration.
Oh, if now you are intrigued by this company, forget about it. As of today, the site has crashed.
[FLASH]http://www.liveleak.com/player.swf?autostart=false&token=57f_1190050654[/FLASH]
[FLASH]http://www.liveleak.com/player.swf?autostart=false&token=b6a_1190033185[/FLASH]
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OH snap! I didn't realize you started this tread?!?!?
I see why you responded or rather, didn't, respond when I brought up Balckwater in that other post this weekend. 
It's cool though.
Blackwater = Mercenaries
Sleep if you wanna.
Google Militias and I guarantee you'll see dozens of other groups like this.
Sleep if you wanna.
Google Militias and I guarantee you'll see dozens of other groups like this.
Check this out...article from 04
Steelwill its obvious you have no or very little military experience. I was in the army for 6 years, served in Iraq an can tell you, companies like Black Water were a thorn in our side. Every time they would fuck up guess who had to clean up the mess or deal with the Aftermath? We did. They say they are comprised of mostly retired military, my ass maybe about 20% ex military 80% trigger happy redneck goons. I hope these shit birds are disbanded and imprisoned! If you think having a government contracted militia patrol the streets of this country is a good idea, you need to have your head checked. Ok now back to lurking
Steelwill its obvious you have no or very little military experience. I was in the army for 6 years, served in Iraq an can tell you, companies like Black Water were a thorn in our side. Every time they would fuck up guess who had to clean up the mess or deal with the Aftermath? We did. They say they are comprised of mostly retired military, my ass maybe about 20% ex military 80% trigger happy redneck goons. I hope these shit birds are disbanded and imprisoned! If you think having a government contracted militia patrol the streets of this country is a good idea, you need to have your head checked. Ok now back to lurking
CHUUUCH!!!
Steelwill its obvious you have no or very little military experience. I was in the army for 6 years, served in Iraq an can tell you, companies like Black Water were a thorn in our side. Every time they would fuck up guess who had to clean up the mess or deal with the Aftermath? We did. They say they are comprised of mostly retired military, my ass maybe about 20% ex military 80% trigger happy redneck goons. I hope these shit birds are disbanded and imprisoned! If you think having a government contracted militia patrol the streets of this country is a good idea, you need to have your head checked. Ok now back to lurking
I'll admit, I haven't researched this company at all. In fact, as I was driving I was listening to the radio and they were speaking of an incident that happened a day before this post that left 9 Iraqis dead, supposedly of course. You people are so quick to call them mercenaries when their objective speaks of the exact opposite on a more personal level.
To say that most people who are employed by blackwater is a mercenary is like stereotyping every black male in America as a hoodlum. Now, before you start formulating any thoughts, walk with me for second...........the most you hear of black folk in the media is bad, correct? So why is it not a fair assumption that most black males respresent what the media portrays them to be.
My whole standing is the company does not speak for most the individuals themselves. So if you are to label anyone who seeks employment with this company as a mercenary then you are to consider our very own as such. Most of these muthafuckas aren't fighting for our country. They either want to make money, kill Iraqis, or both.
It doesn't fucking matter who is in Iraq. Military personnel are killing just as many as these so called Mercs in Iraq. They are there so fucking deal with it. I've seen a lot of shit in Iraq as an 11B and live to this day to tell about it. Got deployed back to back from 03-05. I was home only 8 fucking months before I got deployed again. I was supposed to have gotten out that same fucking year but instead of making up some bullshit, I went back. So don't down play my fucking service hero.
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Chuuch?? Niggah unless you served in Iraq yourself as a combat soldier/Marine, STFU.
Steelwill its obvious you have no or very little military experience. I was in the army for 6 years, served in Iraq an can tell you, companies like Black Water were a thorn in our side. Every time they would fuck up guess who had to clean up the mess or deal with the Aftermath? We did. They say they are comprised of mostly retired military, my ass maybe about 20% ex military 80% trigger happy redneck goons. I hope these shit birds are disbanded and imprisoned! If you think having a government contracted militia patrol the streets of this country is a good idea, you need to have your head checked. Ok now back to lurking
Damn you from flint too. They havent talked about deport you to iraq?
Thank you for setting the record straight on this with your honest assesment.Steelwill its obvious you have no or very little military experience. I was in the army for 6 years, served in Iraq an can tell you, companies like Black Water were a thorn in our side. Every time they would fuck up guess who had to clean up the mess or deal with the Aftermath? We did. They say they are comprised of mostly retired military, my ass maybe about 20% ex military 80% trigger happy redneck goons. I hope these shit birds are disbanded and imprisoned! If you think having a government contracted militia patrol the streets of this country is a good idea, you need to have your head checked. Ok now back to lurking
Fuck that poughe, A.KA. "Fobbit". Bitch if you ain't Infantry, you ain't shit. We win wars, not some punk ass support battalion.
Your ass ain't even seen A real soldier after 12 hours in sector up close and cosigning on some shit. How do you know how valid his statement is fucktard? STFU!
Infantry? LOL 19 D Cav scout
I swear I see more sheep on this bitch by the day.
This doesn't ring true to me. It became a reflex for me to say "HOAH".After having to hear that shit a billions times during formations and ceremonies, one gets tired of having to say it. Besides, I think HOORAH sounds better anyway.
Your ass ain't even seen A real soldier after 12 hours in sector up close and cosigning on some shit. How do you know how valid his statement is fucktard? STFU!
First, I’m going to let you slide with the verbal theatrics. I’d rather dice you by exposing you and this post of yours as fraudulent.
Second, it is not necessary for me to have “…seen A real soldier after 12 hours in sector up close and cosigning on some shit.” to agree with Prince of Persia’s comments because I R-E-A-D, and share information so that ignorant people can be informed, you @$$. (Excuse me. I said I was going to let it go. I apologize). Like when I posted this article three days ago that you responded to:
12 U.S. troops die in Iraq; Spain leaving
FALLUJAH: Brutal ambush might have been avoided
Colin Freeman, Chronicle Foreign Service
Monday, April 19, 2004
(04-19) 04:00 PDT Baghdad -- The brutal slaying and mutilation of four private U.S. guards as they drove through the flashpoint town of Fallujah last month shocked the world and sparked an escalation of the bloody conflict in Iraq. Yet as U.S. Marines besiege the overwhelmingly Sunni Muslim city in a bid to punish the attackers, one uncomfortable question remains: Could the tragedy have been avoided?
In the past three weeks, The Chronicle has delved into the background of the fateful decision that led Blackwater Security, a respected and experienced U.S. security firm, to escort a food convoy through the most dangerous town in Iraq.
Disturbing allegations have emerged that Blackwater -- which provides guards for Paul Bremer, the U.S. administrator in Iraq -- ignored warnings from another security company that Fallujah was unsafe to travel through.
Furthermore, a former military colleague of one of the slain men, ex-Navy SEAL Scott Helvenston, 38, of Oceanside (San Diego County), has raised questions about why the company may have taken on risks they could not cope with.
(Full article here: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...NGKU67AHP1.DTL)
Remember what you wrote after reading the article? Sure you don’t. Let me remind you of our exchange:
"I am missing something here? According to this article: Blackwater agents”… ignored warnings from another security company that Fallujah was unsafe to travel through”. They (the 4 BW guards) were also “…lightly armed, and yet they would be up against people who regularly take on the U.S. Army."
You don’t find it disturbing – at all – that:
1. Blackwater/contract agencies operate OUTSIDE of military judicial jurisdiction should they commit a crime – unlike enlisted officers.
2. These men (in the article) put themselves in harms way by disobeying information given to them.
3. Contracted "civilians" are not beholden to ANY US military chain of command authority like officers. (Hence this debacle).
4. The deaths of these 4 “civilian” guards triggered a US Marine assault on a town that was an established haven of death.5. Their reckless “civilian” actions possibly led to the deaths of some of your peers?
6. This is only ONE reported case. Does anyone know how many times US commanders threw soldiers into the fray for an armed "civilian" contractors back?!?!? I don't and neither does the rest of America.
I respect your service and what you have given. I have not served in the military, but I have a hard time swallowing the fact that these Merc’s or “civilians” can f-up their independent mission and then have the wrath of the US Marines reign down to cover their autonomous @$$e$! Yet, the government does not count the 4 that lead to the death of US officers… I would want to know their death count as well as how many of my comrades died for their mistakes. That’s just me. If you’re cool with that then I stand down. You are entitled to your perspective".
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I made the same assessment of our troops covering Balckwaters mistakes just like Prince of Persia did ("I was in the army for 6 years, served in Iraq an can tell you, companies like Black Water were a thorn in our side. Every time they would fuck up guess who had to clean up the mess or deal with the Aftermath?") without stepping foot in Iraq. How did this phenomenon occur you ask?!?!. I R-E-A-D and share information with others so they will be less ignorant about issues, you @$$. (Yo, for real, my bad. I really, really apologize this time).
1. I gave you the opportunity to "intelligently" explain your view. You declined and hauled @$$ over here and created this infomercial.
2. You are disengenuine (aka: fake) with your comparisons about blacks in the news. You’re not really substantiating a valid argument. You are, unsuccessfully, trying to associate negative portrayal of blacks in the media as the common denominator so Afican Americans can sympathize with your biased view. I would have been offended but I laughed too hard.
3. There is more to BGOL than porn![/U] Sooo... if you had searched for "Blackwater", on this site – not Google, Yahoo or MSN - before you wrote this gem: “There is absolutely nothing to substantiate the claims by the media to indict anyone on criminal charges”. Are you f-n kidding me?!?!?!!?
IF you would have R-E-A-D this: THEN you would have saved yourself the embarrassment of being exposed as shady AND ignorant. I’m trying hard to avoid putting you on the "ignore list" like everyone else. Help me out a little.
There are a lot of articulate and knowledgeable people on this board. Here's an invitation to join us...
Less bravado
- MORE Info...
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Does this sound like preemptive blame heading towards some, " Black water was set up by the Iraqi MOI!???
Doug Brooks of the International Peace Operations
DOUG BROOKS: There seems to be a lot of different versions of the event. It seems, you know, as somebody once -- or someone I talked to today was saying that, you know, the Iraqi government responded within two hours to an incident, which is a record speed. So some question there may be some political aspect behind this.
The Ministry of Interior, of course, has a really interesting reputation in terms of working with militia groups and things like that. So there may be some other factors involved that we're not quite clear on. I think there's a couple of -- at least two investigations underway. We're looking forward to seeing how those pan out, before I think we'd make any other...
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/middle_east/july-dec07/blackwater_09-18.html
Entire transcript -
Security Contractors Questioned After Blackwater Shooting
The Iraqi Cabinet said Tuesday it would review the status of all foreign security companies following the alleged killing of eight civilians by security firm Blackwater USA. Two experts consider the ramifications.
JUDY WOODRUFF: For the past two days, public anger has been mounting in Iraq over the deaths on Sunday of at least nine Iraqis, allegedly killed by private security guards accompanying a State Department convoy in Baghdad. The guards were working for the American firm Blackwater USA.
IRAQI CIVILIAN (through translator): We see the security firms or the so-called American security firms doing whatever they want in the streets. They beat citizens and scorn them.
JUDY WOODRUFF: A dozen other Iraqis were wounded in the firefight in western Baghdad. Accounts differ on who fired first. This injured man said...
IRAQI CIVILIAN (through translator): They shot randomly.
JUDY WOODRUFF: The Iraqi government blamed the Blackwater personnel and ordered all the firm's contractors to leave the country. It also ordered an investigation of all private contractors whom the government licenses.
The North Carolina-based Blackwater USA provides most of the security for the U.S. embassy personnel in Iraq, with nearly 1,000 contracted employees. It is one of the largest private security firms in Iraq.
Company officials insisted their employees acted lawfully and appropriately in response to a hostile attack: "These civilians reportedly fired upon by Blackwater professionals were, in fact, armed enemies and Blackwater personnel returned defensive fire."
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice telephoned Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki late yesterday to express regret, and State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said today an investigation is underway.
But at the same time, U.S. Ambassador Ryan Crocker and other State Department officials have insisted the Blackwater guards were essential to their security in Baghdad.
RYAN CROCKER, U.S. Ambassador to Iraq: There is no alternative except through contracts. And I would have to say that the capability and courage of the individuals who provide security under contract is worthy of respect of all Americans.
Doug Brooks
Doug Brooks
International Peace Operations
I think all the contractors are pretty important. The security companies essentially relieve the military of doing a lot of sort of static security.
"Highly paid for high-risk work"
JUDY WOODRUFF: But the U.S. and Iraqi laws applying to private contracts are murky. There are more than 182,000 individual contractors of many nationalities working for the U.S. government in Iraq, doing an assortment of jobs, with an estimated 20,000 to 30,000 in security work. And while there have been several incidents with them being accused of shooting Iraqis, none has been prosecuted to date.
Security contractors are highly paid for high-risk work. One of the most horrific attacks of the war came in Fallujah in March of 2004, when four Blackwater employees were ambushed and killed. Chanting crowds hanged their charred bodies from a bridge.
This afternoon, Blackwater officials said they had yet to receive word from the Iraqi Ministry of Interior to stop work, and their contractors are still in the country.
For more on all of this, we get two views. Jeremy Scahill is author of "Blackwater: The Rise of the World's Most Powerful Mercenary Army." He also reports for the Nation magazine and for the independent radio program, "Democracy Now." And Doug Brooks is founder and president of the International Peace Operations Association. It is a trade organization for military service companies.
Gentlemen, thank you both for being with us.
And, Doug Brooks, to you first. Blackwater is saying it has not been told to leave the country. The Iraqi government is saying, yes, that their license has been revoked. Whichever is happening at this moment, how important is Blackwater and these other security companies to the American war effort?
DOUG BROOKS, President, International Peace Operations Association: Well, I think all the contractors are pretty important. The security companies essentially relieve the military of doing a lot of sort of static security. We have a smaller military than we have had in the past, and it's a very capable military, but there's no reason you should have combat troops guarding gates and things like that. So you use a lot of contractors. And I think it's important to remember, even with the security contractors, most of them are Iraqis. Now, Blackwater does a lot of high-end...
JUDY WOODRUFF: Most of them are Iraqis?
DOUG BROOKS: Most of them are Iraqis. And Blackwater does a lot of the high-end security, so it has to use Americans with clearances and so on. But for most contractors for convoys, for site protection and stuff, you'll see mostly Iraqis doing the work.
Jeremy Scahill
Jeremy Scahill
The Nation Magazine
What's different now is that the Iraqi government seems to be asserting itself and standing up, not just to any company in Iraq, but to what is the official mercenary company of the U.S. occupation.
The role of private contractors
JUDY WOODRUFF: Jeremy Scahill, how important are these private contractors, whether it's Blackwater or the others to this overall effort?
JEREMY SCAHILL, The Nation Magazine: Well, Judy, the Bush administration failed to build the coalition of willing nations to occupy Iraq, and so instead it built a coalition of billing corporations. And as you said, there are now private contractors in Iraq than there are official U.S. soldiers. So, actually, the U.S. military is the junior partner now in this coalition that's occupying Iraq.
These are extraordinary developments, but there's nothing particularly new over what's happened over the last 48 hours, because Blackwater itself has been engaged in numerous firefights with Iraqis over the years. In fact, for four years of occupation, we've seen numerous instances of U.S. mercenaries opening fire on Iraqis.
What's different now is that the Iraqi government seems to be asserting itself and standing up, not just to any company in Iraq, but to what is the official mercenary company of the U.S. occupation. They guard Ambassador Ryan Crocker, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. I mean, telling Blackwater they have to leave the country is essentially saying, "We're going to expel the bodyguards of the senior U.S. officials."
JUDY WOODRUFF: Doug Brooks, we hear him saying that there have been numerous firefights over the last four years. If that's what's happened, has any action been taken against these security firms, these other firms when that's happened?
DOUG BROOKS: Well, essentially, they have rules that they operate under as a security company. Militaries have rules of engagement, ROEs, which are secret, which are aggressive, and allow them to use force and proactively to carry out their mission.
But security companies is a thick line, and security companies have rules for the use of force, RUF. And what it means is they're allowed to defend themselves, they're allowed to defend whatever they've been contracted to protect, whether it's a convoy or a politician or an organization or whatever, and they are allowed to protect Iraqi civilians under imminent threat. And that's it.
So it's a very different sort of role. They're lightly armed compared to the military, but they have a very specific, specialized role. And, yes, they do get -- they do end up protecting whatever they're hired to protect quite often.
JUDY WOODRUFF: And what's happened in the past when there have been complaints against them?
DOUG BROOKS: There is different ways of holding companies accountable. A company can be held accountable contractually through the U.S. government. It can be held accountable through those various rules, as far as the federal acquisition regulations and DFARS and so on. There's different ways to hold companies accountable.
For individuals, this has been improving. And this is something that our association is working with Congress on. You can actually bring individuals back to the United States for trial, not local nationals, not Iraqis, but you can bring back people from other nationalities to the United States to try them for felonies.
Jeremy Scahill
Jeremy Scahill
The Nation Magazine
We had Blackwater contractors in Najaf shooting at Iraqis and saying it was like a turkey shoot. So this is a big problem. It's like a Wild West atmosphere in Iraq right now.
Governing private contractors
JUDY WOODRUFF: And, Jeremy Scahill, how clear are the laws that govern these private contractors?
JEREMY SCAHILL: It's interesting. You hear Doug say that they can be held accountable. The fact is that they have not been held accountable. Not in one single instance has a mercenary been charged with any crime against an Iraqi in four years of occupation, not under the Iraqi law, because the United States gutted the Iraqi legal system. At a time when it said it was handing over sovereignty, they were saying, "You can prosecute these contractors for crimes committed in your country."
They haven't been held accountable under the court martial system, nor have they been held accountable under civilian law inside the United States. So either we have tens of thousands of Boy Scouts working in Iraq as mercenaries or something is fundamentally rotten with the system.
And I think that this is something that the industry likes to hide behind. They say, "Well, there are laws," and they look really good on paper. The fact is that the political will to prosecute these mercenaries has simply not been there.
JUDY WOODRUFF: And just to be clear, what are you saying they have done that they should be held accountable for?
JEREMY SCAHILL: Well, for instance, we had an incident that occurred last Christmas Eve, where an off-duty Blackwater contractor is alleged to have shot and killed a bodyguard for the Iraqi vice president. Blackwater responded to that by whisking that contractor out of Iraq and back to the United States. Now, Blackwater said it fired that individual and is cooperating with the Justice Department investigation, but so far nothing, to my knowledge, has happened to that individual.
There was a similar incident to the one that happened on Sunday involving Blackwater last may, this past May, where on back-to-back days Blackwater contractors engaged in firefights just outside of the Iraqi Ministry of the Interior. We had Blackwater contractors in Najaf shooting at Iraqis and saying it was like a turkey shoot.
So this is a big problem. It's like a Wild West atmosphere in Iraq right now. And finally attention is being paid to it and the Iraqi government is asserting itself.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Doug Brooks, from your perspective, what has happened in these incidents? And why have they or have they not been held accountable?
DOUG BROOKS: There needs to be due process. And when there's an incident that occurs that appears to be outside the rules of use of force, then there needs to be some sort of accountability. And this is something our industry supports.
You're not going to get perfect accountability. You're operating in what's called a complex contingency operation. There's no legal system. There's very little in the way of governmental system. So you have to find a way that you can hold contractors accountable when there's a problem.
And this is something we actually support from our side that good accountability is good for our industry. And we've been backing this. And, again, we've been working with Congress on this. We've been -- Congressman Price has been particularly good on this.
JUDY WOODRUFF: So are you agreeing that they have not always been held accountable?
DOUG BROOKS: I think it could be done better.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, let's talk about the specific -- quickly, the specific incident on Sunday. You've got sources presumably inside Blackwater. Are they shedding any more light on what happened?
DOUG BROOKS: There seems to be a lot of different versions of the event. It seems, you know, as somebody once -- or someone I talked to today was saying that, you know, the Iraqi government responded within two hours to an incident, which is a record speed. So some question there may be some political aspect behind this.
The Ministry of Interior, of course, has a really interesting reputation in terms of working with militia groups and things like that. So there may be some other factors involved that we're not quite clear on. I think there's a couple of -- at least two investigations underway. We're looking forward to seeing how those pan out, before I think we'd make any other...
Doug Brooks
Doug Brooks
International Peace Operations
The private security companies are involved in a proportionately smaller number of incidents than the military is. And the military, of course, is much better armed, and so there's more problems with the civilian casualties in these events.
Diplomatic investigation
JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, the State Department announced they're doing a diplomatic investigation, as well as the Iraqi government investigation.
Jeremy Scahill, you've got sources inside Iraq. You've been talking to them. Are they shedding any more light on this?
JEREMY SCAHILL: Well, I think that the main concern right now -- Doug Brooks talks about how there needs to be due process. There has been a systematic failure to allow Iraqis due process when they're the victims of crimes.
And the fact of the matter is that Blackwater says that it only engages in defensive operations. The fact is that you can't get more offensive than occupying someone else's country. And Blackwater has put its forces at the vanguard of that operation.
And Iraqi lives are put at a far lower value than the American lives that Blackwater is protecting, and this is just the most recent incident. And it's tragic to see the Iraqi civilian with bullet wounds in that hospital room talking about being fired upon by these Blackwater operatives. I think that this system needs to be reined in and brought under control.
JUDY WOODRUFF: There are these -- go ahead.
DOUG BROOKS: I was just going to say, if I could take issue with that, many of our companies or most of our companies actually have a number of Iraqi employees. And one of the chief concerns of these companies is taking care of their employees.
There's been numerous instances where employees' families have been threatened and so on, and the companies have stepped forward to make sure that they're taken to safety. And one of the key issues that we're looking at now is the whole asylum issue. I think this is -- we do take our Iraqi employees very seriously.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Meaning, if they're accused of something and they're found...
DOUG BROOKS: No, meaning that if they're threatened by militias or whatever that the companies do take care of them.
JUDY WOODRUFF: All right.
There are -- back to you, Jeremy Scahill, quickly -- there are these two investigations underway. How much confidence do you have that eventually we'll get to the bottom of this, we'll know what happened on Sunday?
JEREMY SCAHILL: I think that we may see the beginning of some kind of prosecution. It's going to be token, and it's going to be symbolic. I think that this incident has brought it to the forefront, and I think that the Bush administration, especially if it wants to keep Blackwater in the country, is probably going to have to take some kind of a step against the company.
Doug Brooks talks about how these companies have concern for their Iraqi employees. What about concern for the Iraqi civilians who were killed over the course of these past four years by these unaccountable mercenaries in Iraq? That's something these people never want to talk about.
DOUG BROOKS: I think you need to have the most professional people you can get in the field. And when the government actually contracts these companies, if you look in their contracts and stuff, they're very careful about what sort of training these people have to have.
And I think you'll see that, when you look at the statistics, the private security companies are involved in a proportionately smaller number of incidents than the military is. And the military, of course, is much better armed, and so there's more problems with the civilian casualties in these events.
But in any case, there's a lot of combat in urban areas. And when you're attacked in an urban area, it is very dangerous. It's a war zone. And these companies are operating in that war zone. And there's always going to be problems. Now, the companies -- good companies will step forward and do the right thing, and that's something we encourage, from an IPOA perspective.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, we are going to have to leave it there, gentlemen. Doug Brooks here in Washington, Jeremy Scahill joining us from New York. We appreciate it. Thank you both.
DOUG BROOKS: Thank you.
Doug Brooks of the International Peace Operations
DOUG BROOKS: There seems to be a lot of different versions of the event. It seems, you know, as somebody once -- or someone I talked to today was saying that, you know, the Iraqi government responded within two hours to an incident, which is a record speed. So some question there may be some political aspect behind this.
The Ministry of Interior, of course, has a really interesting reputation in terms of working with militia groups and things like that. So there may be some other factors involved that we're not quite clear on. I think there's a couple of -- at least two investigations underway. We're looking forward to seeing how those pan out, before I think we'd make any other...
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/middle_east/july-dec07/blackwater_09-18.html
Entire transcript -
Security Contractors Questioned After Blackwater Shooting
The Iraqi Cabinet said Tuesday it would review the status of all foreign security companies following the alleged killing of eight civilians by security firm Blackwater USA. Two experts consider the ramifications.
JUDY WOODRUFF: For the past two days, public anger has been mounting in Iraq over the deaths on Sunday of at least nine Iraqis, allegedly killed by private security guards accompanying a State Department convoy in Baghdad. The guards were working for the American firm Blackwater USA.
IRAQI CIVILIAN (through translator): We see the security firms or the so-called American security firms doing whatever they want in the streets. They beat citizens and scorn them.
JUDY WOODRUFF: A dozen other Iraqis were wounded in the firefight in western Baghdad. Accounts differ on who fired first. This injured man said...
IRAQI CIVILIAN (through translator): They shot randomly.
JUDY WOODRUFF: The Iraqi government blamed the Blackwater personnel and ordered all the firm's contractors to leave the country. It also ordered an investigation of all private contractors whom the government licenses.
The North Carolina-based Blackwater USA provides most of the security for the U.S. embassy personnel in Iraq, with nearly 1,000 contracted employees. It is one of the largest private security firms in Iraq.
Company officials insisted their employees acted lawfully and appropriately in response to a hostile attack: "These civilians reportedly fired upon by Blackwater professionals were, in fact, armed enemies and Blackwater personnel returned defensive fire."
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice telephoned Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki late yesterday to express regret, and State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said today an investigation is underway.
But at the same time, U.S. Ambassador Ryan Crocker and other State Department officials have insisted the Blackwater guards were essential to their security in Baghdad.
RYAN CROCKER, U.S. Ambassador to Iraq: There is no alternative except through contracts. And I would have to say that the capability and courage of the individuals who provide security under contract is worthy of respect of all Americans.
Doug Brooks
Doug Brooks
International Peace Operations
I think all the contractors are pretty important. The security companies essentially relieve the military of doing a lot of sort of static security.
"Highly paid for high-risk work"
JUDY WOODRUFF: But the U.S. and Iraqi laws applying to private contracts are murky. There are more than 182,000 individual contractors of many nationalities working for the U.S. government in Iraq, doing an assortment of jobs, with an estimated 20,000 to 30,000 in security work. And while there have been several incidents with them being accused of shooting Iraqis, none has been prosecuted to date.
Security contractors are highly paid for high-risk work. One of the most horrific attacks of the war came in Fallujah in March of 2004, when four Blackwater employees were ambushed and killed. Chanting crowds hanged their charred bodies from a bridge.
This afternoon, Blackwater officials said they had yet to receive word from the Iraqi Ministry of Interior to stop work, and their contractors are still in the country.
For more on all of this, we get two views. Jeremy Scahill is author of "Blackwater: The Rise of the World's Most Powerful Mercenary Army." He also reports for the Nation magazine and for the independent radio program, "Democracy Now." And Doug Brooks is founder and president of the International Peace Operations Association. It is a trade organization for military service companies.
Gentlemen, thank you both for being with us.
And, Doug Brooks, to you first. Blackwater is saying it has not been told to leave the country. The Iraqi government is saying, yes, that their license has been revoked. Whichever is happening at this moment, how important is Blackwater and these other security companies to the American war effort?
DOUG BROOKS, President, International Peace Operations Association: Well, I think all the contractors are pretty important. The security companies essentially relieve the military of doing a lot of sort of static security. We have a smaller military than we have had in the past, and it's a very capable military, but there's no reason you should have combat troops guarding gates and things like that. So you use a lot of contractors. And I think it's important to remember, even with the security contractors, most of them are Iraqis. Now, Blackwater does a lot of high-end...
JUDY WOODRUFF: Most of them are Iraqis?
DOUG BROOKS: Most of them are Iraqis. And Blackwater does a lot of the high-end security, so it has to use Americans with clearances and so on. But for most contractors for convoys, for site protection and stuff, you'll see mostly Iraqis doing the work.
Jeremy Scahill
Jeremy Scahill
The Nation Magazine
What's different now is that the Iraqi government seems to be asserting itself and standing up, not just to any company in Iraq, but to what is the official mercenary company of the U.S. occupation.
The role of private contractors
JUDY WOODRUFF: Jeremy Scahill, how important are these private contractors, whether it's Blackwater or the others to this overall effort?
JEREMY SCAHILL, The Nation Magazine: Well, Judy, the Bush administration failed to build the coalition of willing nations to occupy Iraq, and so instead it built a coalition of billing corporations. And as you said, there are now private contractors in Iraq than there are official U.S. soldiers. So, actually, the U.S. military is the junior partner now in this coalition that's occupying Iraq.
These are extraordinary developments, but there's nothing particularly new over what's happened over the last 48 hours, because Blackwater itself has been engaged in numerous firefights with Iraqis over the years. In fact, for four years of occupation, we've seen numerous instances of U.S. mercenaries opening fire on Iraqis.
What's different now is that the Iraqi government seems to be asserting itself and standing up, not just to any company in Iraq, but to what is the official mercenary company of the U.S. occupation. They guard Ambassador Ryan Crocker, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. I mean, telling Blackwater they have to leave the country is essentially saying, "We're going to expel the bodyguards of the senior U.S. officials."
JUDY WOODRUFF: Doug Brooks, we hear him saying that there have been numerous firefights over the last four years. If that's what's happened, has any action been taken against these security firms, these other firms when that's happened?
DOUG BROOKS: Well, essentially, they have rules that they operate under as a security company. Militaries have rules of engagement, ROEs, which are secret, which are aggressive, and allow them to use force and proactively to carry out their mission.
But security companies is a thick line, and security companies have rules for the use of force, RUF. And what it means is they're allowed to defend themselves, they're allowed to defend whatever they've been contracted to protect, whether it's a convoy or a politician or an organization or whatever, and they are allowed to protect Iraqi civilians under imminent threat. And that's it.
So it's a very different sort of role. They're lightly armed compared to the military, but they have a very specific, specialized role. And, yes, they do get -- they do end up protecting whatever they're hired to protect quite often.
JUDY WOODRUFF: And what's happened in the past when there have been complaints against them?
DOUG BROOKS: There is different ways of holding companies accountable. A company can be held accountable contractually through the U.S. government. It can be held accountable through those various rules, as far as the federal acquisition regulations and DFARS and so on. There's different ways to hold companies accountable.
For individuals, this has been improving. And this is something that our association is working with Congress on. You can actually bring individuals back to the United States for trial, not local nationals, not Iraqis, but you can bring back people from other nationalities to the United States to try them for felonies.
Jeremy Scahill
Jeremy Scahill
The Nation Magazine
We had Blackwater contractors in Najaf shooting at Iraqis and saying it was like a turkey shoot. So this is a big problem. It's like a Wild West atmosphere in Iraq right now.
Governing private contractors
JUDY WOODRUFF: And, Jeremy Scahill, how clear are the laws that govern these private contractors?
JEREMY SCAHILL: It's interesting. You hear Doug say that they can be held accountable. The fact is that they have not been held accountable. Not in one single instance has a mercenary been charged with any crime against an Iraqi in four years of occupation, not under the Iraqi law, because the United States gutted the Iraqi legal system. At a time when it said it was handing over sovereignty, they were saying, "You can prosecute these contractors for crimes committed in your country."
They haven't been held accountable under the court martial system, nor have they been held accountable under civilian law inside the United States. So either we have tens of thousands of Boy Scouts working in Iraq as mercenaries or something is fundamentally rotten with the system.
And I think that this is something that the industry likes to hide behind. They say, "Well, there are laws," and they look really good on paper. The fact is that the political will to prosecute these mercenaries has simply not been there.
JUDY WOODRUFF: And just to be clear, what are you saying they have done that they should be held accountable for?
JEREMY SCAHILL: Well, for instance, we had an incident that occurred last Christmas Eve, where an off-duty Blackwater contractor is alleged to have shot and killed a bodyguard for the Iraqi vice president. Blackwater responded to that by whisking that contractor out of Iraq and back to the United States. Now, Blackwater said it fired that individual and is cooperating with the Justice Department investigation, but so far nothing, to my knowledge, has happened to that individual.
There was a similar incident to the one that happened on Sunday involving Blackwater last may, this past May, where on back-to-back days Blackwater contractors engaged in firefights just outside of the Iraqi Ministry of the Interior. We had Blackwater contractors in Najaf shooting at Iraqis and saying it was like a turkey shoot.
So this is a big problem. It's like a Wild West atmosphere in Iraq right now. And finally attention is being paid to it and the Iraqi government is asserting itself.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Doug Brooks, from your perspective, what has happened in these incidents? And why have they or have they not been held accountable?
DOUG BROOKS: There needs to be due process. And when there's an incident that occurs that appears to be outside the rules of use of force, then there needs to be some sort of accountability. And this is something our industry supports.
You're not going to get perfect accountability. You're operating in what's called a complex contingency operation. There's no legal system. There's very little in the way of governmental system. So you have to find a way that you can hold contractors accountable when there's a problem.
And this is something we actually support from our side that good accountability is good for our industry. And we've been backing this. And, again, we've been working with Congress on this. We've been -- Congressman Price has been particularly good on this.
JUDY WOODRUFF: So are you agreeing that they have not always been held accountable?
DOUG BROOKS: I think it could be done better.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, let's talk about the specific -- quickly, the specific incident on Sunday. You've got sources presumably inside Blackwater. Are they shedding any more light on what happened?
DOUG BROOKS: There seems to be a lot of different versions of the event. It seems, you know, as somebody once -- or someone I talked to today was saying that, you know, the Iraqi government responded within two hours to an incident, which is a record speed. So some question there may be some political aspect behind this.
The Ministry of Interior, of course, has a really interesting reputation in terms of working with militia groups and things like that. So there may be some other factors involved that we're not quite clear on. I think there's a couple of -- at least two investigations underway. We're looking forward to seeing how those pan out, before I think we'd make any other...
Doug Brooks
Doug Brooks
International Peace Operations
The private security companies are involved in a proportionately smaller number of incidents than the military is. And the military, of course, is much better armed, and so there's more problems with the civilian casualties in these events.
Diplomatic investigation
JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, the State Department announced they're doing a diplomatic investigation, as well as the Iraqi government investigation.
Jeremy Scahill, you've got sources inside Iraq. You've been talking to them. Are they shedding any more light on this?
JEREMY SCAHILL: Well, I think that the main concern right now -- Doug Brooks talks about how there needs to be due process. There has been a systematic failure to allow Iraqis due process when they're the victims of crimes.
And the fact of the matter is that Blackwater says that it only engages in defensive operations. The fact is that you can't get more offensive than occupying someone else's country. And Blackwater has put its forces at the vanguard of that operation.
And Iraqi lives are put at a far lower value than the American lives that Blackwater is protecting, and this is just the most recent incident. And it's tragic to see the Iraqi civilian with bullet wounds in that hospital room talking about being fired upon by these Blackwater operatives. I think that this system needs to be reined in and brought under control.
JUDY WOODRUFF: There are these -- go ahead.
DOUG BROOKS: I was just going to say, if I could take issue with that, many of our companies or most of our companies actually have a number of Iraqi employees. And one of the chief concerns of these companies is taking care of their employees.
There's been numerous instances where employees' families have been threatened and so on, and the companies have stepped forward to make sure that they're taken to safety. And one of the key issues that we're looking at now is the whole asylum issue. I think this is -- we do take our Iraqi employees very seriously.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Meaning, if they're accused of something and they're found...
DOUG BROOKS: No, meaning that if they're threatened by militias or whatever that the companies do take care of them.
JUDY WOODRUFF: All right.
There are -- back to you, Jeremy Scahill, quickly -- there are these two investigations underway. How much confidence do you have that eventually we'll get to the bottom of this, we'll know what happened on Sunday?
JEREMY SCAHILL: I think that we may see the beginning of some kind of prosecution. It's going to be token, and it's going to be symbolic. I think that this incident has brought it to the forefront, and I think that the Bush administration, especially if it wants to keep Blackwater in the country, is probably going to have to take some kind of a step against the company.
Doug Brooks talks about how these companies have concern for their Iraqi employees. What about concern for the Iraqi civilians who were killed over the course of these past four years by these unaccountable mercenaries in Iraq? That's something these people never want to talk about.
DOUG BROOKS: I think you need to have the most professional people you can get in the field. And when the government actually contracts these companies, if you look in their contracts and stuff, they're very careful about what sort of training these people have to have.
And I think you'll see that, when you look at the statistics, the private security companies are involved in a proportionately smaller number of incidents than the military is. And the military, of course, is much better armed, and so there's more problems with the civilian casualties in these events.
But in any case, there's a lot of combat in urban areas. And when you're attacked in an urban area, it is very dangerous. It's a war zone. And these companies are operating in that war zone. And there's always going to be problems. Now, the companies -- good companies will step forward and do the right thing, and that's something we encourage, from an IPOA perspective.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, we are going to have to leave it there, gentlemen. Doug Brooks here in Washington, Jeremy Scahill joining us from New York. We appreciate it. Thank you both.
DOUG BROOKS: Thank you.
IF you carry a gun for profit in a warzone and are not a member of the local population nor a member of the uniformed military of the occupying country, or its Intelligence Services, THEN YOU ARE A MERCENARY. Plan and simple.
The embassy bars officials in Baghdad from traveling by land outside the Green Zone.
By Ned Parker, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
September 19, 2007
BAGHDAD -- -- The U.S. Embassy on Tuesday banned diplomats and other civilian government employees indefinitely from traveling by land outside the heavily protected Green Zone as American and Iraqi officials debated the legal status of foreign security contractors after a weekend shooting incident here in which eight civilians were reported killed.
The Iraqi government announced Tuesday that its initial investigation had determined that Blackwater USA guards fired without provocation on Iraqi civilians at a Baghdad traffic circle Sunday. The account contradicted statements by the North Carolina-based security company and the U.S. State Department that the guards had come under small-arms fire after a car bomb exploded.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationw...ter19sep19,0,1430653.story?coll=la-home-world
[flash]http://www.youtube.com/v/5z0NMKcVHHM[/flash]
By Ned Parker, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
September 19, 2007
BAGHDAD -- -- The U.S. Embassy on Tuesday banned diplomats and other civilian government employees indefinitely from traveling by land outside the heavily protected Green Zone as American and Iraqi officials debated the legal status of foreign security contractors after a weekend shooting incident here in which eight civilians were reported killed.
The Iraqi government announced Tuesday that its initial investigation had determined that Blackwater USA guards fired without provocation on Iraqi civilians at a Baghdad traffic circle Sunday. The account contradicted statements by the North Carolina-based security company and the U.S. State Department that the guards had come under small-arms fire after a car bomb exploded.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationw...ter19sep19,0,1430653.story?coll=la-home-world
[flash]http://www.youtube.com/v/5z0NMKcVHHM[/flash]
Awww man it was a glorious sight when Iraqi Insurgents ambushed a black water convoy and lit their cracka asses up with lead then proceeded to burn the bodies alive and hang them faggot cracka's from the Bagdad brigde. That was the best shit I seen
Man I hated them fuckers when I was over there too and I'm feeling the same rage about the whole fucked up situation down range but I think you went a little too far on this one.
Thats some real shit right there. Man.. I was glad I was in the airforce.. we got some strange shit down the wire.. but when ground pounders, do shit like that. makes em glad I can't hear whatever the fuck they are talkin about.
If those guys are mercs.. then they need to be held accountable.
Mercs come in two flavors.
1) The soldier lookin to put food on the table
2) Everbody else.
Originally Posted by: Steelwill2006
What do some of you think about this company? I think they are treated unfairly when it comes to a business standpoint. There is absolutely nothing to substantiate the claims by the media to indict anyone on criminal charges. The law is the law, and I say let these guys live.
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Yup, absolutly "..NOTHING to substantiate the claims by the media to indict any one on criminal charges" - yet.
Feds target Blackwater in weapons probe
By MATTHEW LEE,
Associated Press Writer
Sat Sep 22, 11:59 AM ET
WASHINGTON - Federal prosecutors are investigating whether employees of the private security firm Blackwater USA illegally smuggled into Iraq weapons that may have been sold on the black market and ended up in the hands of a U.S.-designated terrorist organization, officials said Friday.
The U.S. Attorney's Office in Raleigh, N.C., is handling the investigation with help from Pentagon and State Department auditors, who have concluded there is enough evidence to file charges, the officials told The Associated Press. Blackwater is based in Moyock, N.C.
A spokeswoman for Blackwater did not return calls seeking comment Friday. The U.S. attorney for the eastern district of North Carolina, George Holding, declined to comment, as did Pentagon and State Department spokesmen.
Officials with knowledge of the case said it is active, although at an early stage. They spoke on condition of anonymity due to the sensitivity of the matter, which has heightened since 11 Iraqis were killed Sunday in a shooting involving Blackwater contractors protecting a U.S. diplomatic convoy in Baghdad.
The officials could not say whether the investigation would result in indictments, how many Blackwater employees are involved or if the company itself, which has won hundreds of millions of dollars in government security contracts since the 2003 invasion of Iraq, is under scrutiny.
In Saturday's editions, The News & Observer of Raleigh reported that two former Blackwater employees — Kenneth Wayne Cashwell of Virginia Beach, Va., and William Ellsworth "Max" Grumiaux of Clemmons, N.C. — are cooperating with federal investigators.
Cashwell and Grumiaux pleaded guilty in early 2007 to possession of stolen firearms that had been shipped in interstate or foreign commerce, and aided and abetted another in doing so, according to court papers viewed by The Associated Press. In their plea agreements, which call for a maximum sentence of 10 years in prison and a $250,000 fine, the men agreed to testify in any future proceedings.
Calls to defense attorneys were not immediately returned Friday evening, and calls to the telephone listings for both men also were not returned.
The News & Observer, citing unidentified sources, reported that the probe was looking at whether Blackwater had shipped unlicensed automatic weapons and military goods to Iraq without a license.
The paper's report that the company itself was under investigation could not be confirmed by the AP.
Meanwhile, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice ordered a review of security practices for U.S. diplomats in Iraq following a deadly incident involving Blackwater USA guards protecting an embassy convoy.
Rice's announcement came as the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad resumed limited diplomatic convoys under the protection of Blackwater outside the heavily fortified Green Zone after a suspension because of the weekend incident in that city.
In the United States, officials in Washington said the smuggling investigation grew from internal Pentagon and State Department inquiries into U.S. weapons that had gone missing in Iraq. It gained steam after Turkish authorities protested to the U.S. in July that they had seized American arms from the outlawed Kurdistan Workers Party, or PKK, rebels.
The Turks provided serial numbers of the weapons to U.S. investigators, said a Turkish official.
The Pentagon said in late July it was looking into the Turkish complaints and a U.S. official said FBI agents had traveled to Turkey in recent months to look into cases of missing U.S. weapons in Iraq.
Investigators are determining whether the alleged Blackwater weapons match those taken from the PKK.
It was not clear if Blackwater employees suspected of selling to the black market knew the weapons they allegedly sold to middlemen might wind up with the PKK. If they did, possible charges against them could be more serious than theft or illegal weapons sales, officials said.
The PKK, which is fighting for an independent Kurdistan, is banned in Turkey, which has a restive Kurdish population and is considered a "foreign terrorist organization" by the State Department. That designation bars U.S. citizens or those in U.S. jurisdictions from supporting the group in any way.
The North Carolina investigation was first brought to light by State Department Inspector General Howard Krongard, who mentioned it, perhaps inadvertently, this week while denying he had improperly blocked fraud and corruption probes in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Krongard was accused in a letter by Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Calif., chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, of politically motivated malfeasance, including refusing to cooperate with an investigation into alleged weapons smuggling by a large, unidentified State Department contractor.
In response, Krongard said in a written statement that he "made one of my best investigators available to help Assistant U.S. Attorneys in North Carolina in their investigation into alleged smuggling of weapons into Iraq by a contractor."
His statement went further than Waxman's letter because it identified the state in which the investigation was taking place. Blackwater is the biggest of the State Department's three private security contractors.
The other two, Dyncorp and Triple Canopy, are based in Washington's northern Virginias suburbs, outside the jurisdiction of the North Carolina's attorneys.
___
What do some of you think about this company? I think they are treated unfairly when it comes to a business standpoint. There is absolutely nothing to substantiate the claims by the media to indict anyone on criminal charges. The law is the law, and I say let these guys live.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yup, absolutly "..NOTHING to substantiate the claims by the media to indict any one on criminal charges" - yet.
Feds target Blackwater in weapons probe
By MATTHEW LEE,
Associated Press Writer
Sat Sep 22, 11:59 AM ET
WASHINGTON - Federal prosecutors are investigating whether employees of the private security firm Blackwater USA illegally smuggled into Iraq weapons that may have been sold on the black market and ended up in the hands of a U.S.-designated terrorist organization, officials said Friday.
The U.S. Attorney's Office in Raleigh, N.C., is handling the investigation with help from Pentagon and State Department auditors, who have concluded there is enough evidence to file charges, the officials told The Associated Press. Blackwater is based in Moyock, N.C.
A spokeswoman for Blackwater did not return calls seeking comment Friday. The U.S. attorney for the eastern district of North Carolina, George Holding, declined to comment, as did Pentagon and State Department spokesmen.
Officials with knowledge of the case said it is active, although at an early stage. They spoke on condition of anonymity due to the sensitivity of the matter, which has heightened since 11 Iraqis were killed Sunday in a shooting involving Blackwater contractors protecting a U.S. diplomatic convoy in Baghdad.
The officials could not say whether the investigation would result in indictments, how many Blackwater employees are involved or if the company itself, which has won hundreds of millions of dollars in government security contracts since the 2003 invasion of Iraq, is under scrutiny.
In Saturday's editions, The News & Observer of Raleigh reported that two former Blackwater employees — Kenneth Wayne Cashwell of Virginia Beach, Va., and William Ellsworth "Max" Grumiaux of Clemmons, N.C. — are cooperating with federal investigators.
Cashwell and Grumiaux pleaded guilty in early 2007 to possession of stolen firearms that had been shipped in interstate or foreign commerce, and aided and abetted another in doing so, according to court papers viewed by The Associated Press. In their plea agreements, which call for a maximum sentence of 10 years in prison and a $250,000 fine, the men agreed to testify in any future proceedings.
Calls to defense attorneys were not immediately returned Friday evening, and calls to the telephone listings for both men also were not returned.
The News & Observer, citing unidentified sources, reported that the probe was looking at whether Blackwater had shipped unlicensed automatic weapons and military goods to Iraq without a license.
The paper's report that the company itself was under investigation could not be confirmed by the AP.
Meanwhile, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice ordered a review of security practices for U.S. diplomats in Iraq following a deadly incident involving Blackwater USA guards protecting an embassy convoy.
Rice's announcement came as the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad resumed limited diplomatic convoys under the protection of Blackwater outside the heavily fortified Green Zone after a suspension because of the weekend incident in that city.
In the United States, officials in Washington said the smuggling investigation grew from internal Pentagon and State Department inquiries into U.S. weapons that had gone missing in Iraq. It gained steam after Turkish authorities protested to the U.S. in July that they had seized American arms from the outlawed Kurdistan Workers Party, or PKK, rebels.
The Turks provided serial numbers of the weapons to U.S. investigators, said a Turkish official.
The Pentagon said in late July it was looking into the Turkish complaints and a U.S. official said FBI agents had traveled to Turkey in recent months to look into cases of missing U.S. weapons in Iraq.
Investigators are determining whether the alleged Blackwater weapons match those taken from the PKK.
It was not clear if Blackwater employees suspected of selling to the black market knew the weapons they allegedly sold to middlemen might wind up with the PKK. If they did, possible charges against them could be more serious than theft or illegal weapons sales, officials said.
The PKK, which is fighting for an independent Kurdistan, is banned in Turkey, which has a restive Kurdish population and is considered a "foreign terrorist organization" by the State Department. That designation bars U.S. citizens or those in U.S. jurisdictions from supporting the group in any way.
The North Carolina investigation was first brought to light by State Department Inspector General Howard Krongard, who mentioned it, perhaps inadvertently, this week while denying he had improperly blocked fraud and corruption probes in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Krongard was accused in a letter by Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Calif., chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, of politically motivated malfeasance, including refusing to cooperate with an investigation into alleged weapons smuggling by a large, unidentified State Department contractor.
In response, Krongard said in a written statement that he "made one of my best investigators available to help Assistant U.S. Attorneys in North Carolina in their investigation into alleged smuggling of weapons into Iraq by a contractor."
His statement went further than Waxman's letter because it identified the state in which the investigation was taking place. Blackwater is the biggest of the State Department's three private security contractors.
The other two, Dyncorp and Triple Canopy, are based in Washington's northern Virginias suburbs, outside the jurisdiction of the North Carolina's attorneys.
___
What do we think of them? They are fuckin murderers for hire. In the field mercenaries are given NO quarter. In Iraq they hung these savages from a bridge after dragging their dead carcasses through the streets. That should tell you what kind of reputation mercenaries make for themselves - they are hated and rightly so. They operate beyond any legal or established rule of law for modern warfare.
By the way if any of you foolishly think these people fight "for you" be reminded that they were running around New Orleans after Karina - doing what? God knows. But they weren't rescuing children and feeding people you can believe that. Mercenaries have caused more death and destruction on the African continent trying to subvert our peoples quest for freedom then I'd care to remember.
Fuck em.
By the way if any of you foolishly think these people fight "for you" be reminded that they were running around New Orleans after Karina - doing what? God knows. But they weren't rescuing children and feeding people you can believe that. Mercenaries have caused more death and destruction on the African continent trying to subvert our peoples quest for freedom then I'd care to remember.
Fuck em.
Fuck those faggot ass crackas they are nothing but guns for hire. Iraq is for sale, I have no ill will against the soilders there risking their lives over some bullshit but Blackwater and their emloyees can go straight to hell so yes ambush them all day, riddle their worthless souls with bullets and hang them from the fuck bridge like the animals they are.
an update:
Iraq: Blackwater guards fired unprovoked
By ROBERT H. REID,
Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 22 minutes ago
BAGHDAD - Iraqi investigators have a videotape that shows Blackwater USA guards opened fire against civilians without provocation in a shooting last week that left 11 people dead, a senior Iraqi official said Saturday. He said the case was referred to the Iraqi judiciary.
Iraq's president, meanwhile, demanded that the Americans release an Iranian arrested this week on suspicion of smuggling weapons to Shiite militias. The demand adds new strains to U.S.-Iraqi relations only days before a meeting between President Bush and Iraq's Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki.
Interior Ministry spokesman Maj. Gen. Abdul-Karim Khalaf said Iraqi authorities had completed an investigation into the Sept. 16 shooting in Nisoor Square in western Baghdad and concluded that Blackwater guards were responsible for the deaths.
He told The Associated Press that the conclusion was based on witness statements as well as videotape shot by cameras at the nearby headquarters of the national police command. He said eight people were killed at the scene and three of the 15 wounded died in hospitals.
Blackwater, which provides most of the security for U.S. diplomats and civilian officials in Iraq, has insisted that its guards came under fire from armed insurgents and shot back only to defend themselves.
Blackwater spokeswoman Anne Tyrrell said Saturday that she knew nothing about the videotape and was contractually prohibited from discussing details of the shooting.
Khalaf also said the ministry was looking into six other fatal shootings involving the Moyock, N.C.-based company in which 10 Iraqis were killed and 15 wounded. Among the shootings was one Feb. 7 outside Iraqi state television in Baghdad that killed three building guards.
"These six cases will support the case against Blackwater, because they show that it has a criminal record," Khalaf said.
Khalaf said the report was "sent to the judiciary" although he would not specify whether that amounted to filing of criminal charges. Under Iraqi law, an investigating judge reviews criminal complaints and decides whether there is enough evidence for a trial.
Government spokesman Ali al-Dabbagh denied that authorities had decided to file charges against the Blackwater guards and said Saturday that no decision had been taken whether to seek punishment.
"The necessary measures will be taken that will preserve the honor of the Iraqi people," he said in New York, where al-Maliki arrived Friday for the U.N. General Assembly session. "We have ongoing high-level meetings with the U.S. side about this issue."
Al-Maliki is expected to raise the issue with Bush during a meeting Monday in New York.
It is doubtful that foreign security contractors could be prosecuted under Iraqi law. A directive issued by U.S. occupation authorities in 2004 granted contractors, U.S. troops and many other foreign officials immunity from prosecution under Iraqi law.
Security contractors are also not subject to U.S. military law under which U.S. troopers face prosecution for killing or abusing Iraqis.
Iraqi officials have said in the wake of the Nisoor Square shooting that they will press for amendments to the 2004 directive.
A senior aide to al-Maliki said Friday that three of the Blackwater guards were Iraqis and could be subject to prosecution. The aide spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the case.
Shortly after the Sept. 16 shooting, U.S. officials said they "understood" that there was videotape, but refused to give more details. They spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not supposed to release information to the media.
Following the Nisoor Square shooting, the Interior Ministry banned Blackwater from operating in Iraq but rolled back after the U.S. agreed to a joint investigation. The company resumed guarding a reduced number of U.S. convoys on Friday.
The al-Maliki aide said Friday that the Iraqis were pushing for an apology, compensation for victims or their families and for the guards involved in the shooting to be held "accountable."
Hadi al-Amri, a prominent Shiite lawmaker and al-Maliki ally, also said an admission of wrongdoing, an apology and compensation offered a way out of the dilemma.
"They are always frightened and that's why they shoot at civilians," al-Amri said. "If Blackwater gets to stay in Iraq, it will have to give guarantees about its conduct."
Allegations against Blackwater have clouded relations between Iraq and the Americans at a time when the Bush administration is seeking to contain calls in Congress for sharp reductions in the 160,000-strong U.S. military force.
Adding to those strains, President Jalal Talabani demanded the immediate release of an Iranian official detained Thursday by U.S. forces in the Kurdish city of Sulaimaniyah.
The U.S. military said the unidentified Iranian was a member of the Quds force — an elite unit of Iran's Revolutionary Guards accused of arming and training Shiite militias in Iraq.
A statement issued Saturday by Talabani's office said the arrest was carried out without the prior knowledge or the cooperation of the Kurdish regional government.
"This amounts to an insult and a violation of its rights and authority," said the statement, quoting a letter Talabani sent to Gen. David Petraeus and U.S. Ambassador Ryan Crocker. Talabani, a Kurd, is one of Washington's most reliable partners in Iraq.
Talabani said Iran had threatened to close the border with the Kurdish region if the official were not freed — a serious blow to the economy in the president's political stronghold.
"I want to express to you our dismay over the arrest by American forces of this official civilian Iranian guest," Talabani wrote to Petraeus and Crocker.
Five Iranians said to be linked to the Quds force were arrested in the Kurdish city of Irbil and remain in U.S. custody.
Also Saturday, the U.S. military announced the death of two more American soldiers — one of an unspecified non-combat related injury and another in a vehicle accident in Diyala province.
Iraq: Blackwater guards fired unprovoked
By ROBERT H. REID,
Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 22 minutes ago
BAGHDAD - Iraqi investigators have a videotape that shows Blackwater USA guards opened fire against civilians without provocation in a shooting last week that left 11 people dead, a senior Iraqi official said Saturday. He said the case was referred to the Iraqi judiciary.
Iraq's president, meanwhile, demanded that the Americans release an Iranian arrested this week on suspicion of smuggling weapons to Shiite militias. The demand adds new strains to U.S.-Iraqi relations only days before a meeting between President Bush and Iraq's Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki.
Interior Ministry spokesman Maj. Gen. Abdul-Karim Khalaf said Iraqi authorities had completed an investigation into the Sept. 16 shooting in Nisoor Square in western Baghdad and concluded that Blackwater guards were responsible for the deaths.
He told The Associated Press that the conclusion was based on witness statements as well as videotape shot by cameras at the nearby headquarters of the national police command. He said eight people were killed at the scene and three of the 15 wounded died in hospitals.
Blackwater, which provides most of the security for U.S. diplomats and civilian officials in Iraq, has insisted that its guards came under fire from armed insurgents and shot back only to defend themselves.
Blackwater spokeswoman Anne Tyrrell said Saturday that she knew nothing about the videotape and was contractually prohibited from discussing details of the shooting.
Khalaf also said the ministry was looking into six other fatal shootings involving the Moyock, N.C.-based company in which 10 Iraqis were killed and 15 wounded. Among the shootings was one Feb. 7 outside Iraqi state television in Baghdad that killed three building guards.
"These six cases will support the case against Blackwater, because they show that it has a criminal record," Khalaf said.
Khalaf said the report was "sent to the judiciary" although he would not specify whether that amounted to filing of criminal charges. Under Iraqi law, an investigating judge reviews criminal complaints and decides whether there is enough evidence for a trial.
Government spokesman Ali al-Dabbagh denied that authorities had decided to file charges against the Blackwater guards and said Saturday that no decision had been taken whether to seek punishment.
"The necessary measures will be taken that will preserve the honor of the Iraqi people," he said in New York, where al-Maliki arrived Friday for the U.N. General Assembly session. "We have ongoing high-level meetings with the U.S. side about this issue."
Al-Maliki is expected to raise the issue with Bush during a meeting Monday in New York.
It is doubtful that foreign security contractors could be prosecuted under Iraqi law. A directive issued by U.S. occupation authorities in 2004 granted contractors, U.S. troops and many other foreign officials immunity from prosecution under Iraqi law.
Security contractors are also not subject to U.S. military law under which U.S. troopers face prosecution for killing or abusing Iraqis.
Iraqi officials have said in the wake of the Nisoor Square shooting that they will press for amendments to the 2004 directive.
A senior aide to al-Maliki said Friday that three of the Blackwater guards were Iraqis and could be subject to prosecution. The aide spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the case.
Shortly after the Sept. 16 shooting, U.S. officials said they "understood" that there was videotape, but refused to give more details. They spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not supposed to release information to the media.
Following the Nisoor Square shooting, the Interior Ministry banned Blackwater from operating in Iraq but rolled back after the U.S. agreed to a joint investigation. The company resumed guarding a reduced number of U.S. convoys on Friday.
The al-Maliki aide said Friday that the Iraqis were pushing for an apology, compensation for victims or their families and for the guards involved in the shooting to be held "accountable."
Hadi al-Amri, a prominent Shiite lawmaker and al-Maliki ally, also said an admission of wrongdoing, an apology and compensation offered a way out of the dilemma.
"They are always frightened and that's why they shoot at civilians," al-Amri said. "If Blackwater gets to stay in Iraq, it will have to give guarantees about its conduct."
Allegations against Blackwater have clouded relations between Iraq and the Americans at a time when the Bush administration is seeking to contain calls in Congress for sharp reductions in the 160,000-strong U.S. military force.
Adding to those strains, President Jalal Talabani demanded the immediate release of an Iranian official detained Thursday by U.S. forces in the Kurdish city of Sulaimaniyah.
The U.S. military said the unidentified Iranian was a member of the Quds force — an elite unit of Iran's Revolutionary Guards accused of arming and training Shiite militias in Iraq.
A statement issued Saturday by Talabani's office said the arrest was carried out without the prior knowledge or the cooperation of the Kurdish regional government.
"This amounts to an insult and a violation of its rights and authority," said the statement, quoting a letter Talabani sent to Gen. David Petraeus and U.S. Ambassador Ryan Crocker. Talabani, a Kurd, is one of Washington's most reliable partners in Iraq.
Talabani said Iran had threatened to close the border with the Kurdish region if the official were not freed — a serious blow to the economy in the president's political stronghold.
"I want to express to you our dismay over the arrest by American forces of this official civilian Iranian guest," Talabani wrote to Petraeus and Crocker.
Five Iranians said to be linked to the Quds force were arrested in the Kurdish city of Irbil and remain in U.S. custody.
Also Saturday, the U.S. military announced the death of two more American soldiers — one of an unspecified non-combat related injury and another in a vehicle accident in Diyala province.
i posted negative stuff about blackwater like 2 yrs ago. after Katrina , they were given powers of arrest and shoot on sight orders. a couple indy news groups also did an expose on their behavior in the big easy after the flooding. fuck what anyone thinks about how good they are.assholes were capping blacks like it was a turkeyshoot.
cosign. You simps think these clowns are a good idea. Recall the strom Troopers from star wars. They started out good too.
I looked through some of your past post and did not see this article. If you know whee it is, could you include the link so that I can view it? Thanks.
Not Blackwater but just as bad
http://youtube.com/watch?v=KZX1odzHdAo&mode=related&search=
company name is Aegis
http://youtube.com/watch?v=KZX1odzHdAo&mode=related&search=
company name is Aegis
