Avengers: Endgame (2019) Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)

darth frosty

Dark Lord of the Sith
BGOL Investor
What have you noticed in Marvel movies that most people have not?


The Ancient one beat Thanos.

Strange, Stark, and all the others were just chess pieces she positioned on the board.

When the Ancient one dies, she tells Dr. Strange “I never saw your future, only the possibilities.”

And what does Dr. Strange see when he uses the Time Stone?

Over 14 million possible futures, with only one where they are victorious over Thanos.

The entire plot of Dr. Strange was the result of The Ancient One moving the proverbial chess pieces on the board to beat Thanos.

As she used the Time Stone, she would have known that Kaecullis was going to steal the ancient texts.
She didn’t prevent it, even though doing so would have stopped Darmammu in his tracks.

Instead, she let the events transpire knowing that doing so was the only way to ensure Dr. Strange was in the right place, at the right time, for that 1 in 14 million chance at beating Thanos.

But the real lynch pin in the theory?

This guy:

main-qimg-a560fff3daaf510763f0a3ba57f57f22

There are just too many coincident to not think this guy was, essentially, a “plant” from the Ancient one to direct Strange to where he needed to be.

Why?
  1. He sought treatment from Strange himself, but was rejected as it was “impossible”. This is important because of Strange’s ego. If Pangborn hadn’t sought Strange for treatment, Strange may have just thought the doctor’s who diagnosed him were subpar. At best, this would have delayed Strange’s search for Kamar-Taj because he likely would have taken the time to find and review the appropriate medical records (some of which he already had access to via his physical therapist and was in doubt). At worst, he just would have rejected Pangborn’s “miracle” as some form of delusion or parlor trick; kind of like he did upon first meeting The Ancient One.
  2. Both Strange and Pangborn have the same physical therapist which is the sole event which leads Strange to Pangborn.
  3. Although Pangborn left Kamar-Taj claiming he wanted to return to his normal life, it seems he doesn’t do that until after his meeting with Strange. I base this on the fact that Strange seeks him out while he is playing basket ball. Panghorn owns his own machine shop, as seen in the post-credit scene. It would have be infinitely easier and more expedient for Strange to simply approach him where he worked as opposed to seek him out while he’s playing basketball.
  4. Pangborn describes a widespread search for anything that could help him. This is likely how every other acolyte finds their way to Kamar-Taj. Strange, however, gets this beautiful little road map that leads him right there starting from within his home city.
 

darth frosty

Dark Lord of the Sith
BGOL Investor
What is one thing you noticed in the film Avengers: Endgame (2019)?



Natashas death was foreshadowed in Avengers AoU.

Clint named his son Nathaniel Pietro "Nate" Barton. It originally was supposed to be “Natasha” but since it turned out to be a boy it’s “Nathaniel”

Pietro sacrificed himself In AoU to shield Clint and a child he was holding in his arms

main-qimg-d0d0f3d06a6fe4793d402a46fc7f05e3


main-qimg-17a31b5ff62dc75c2a00a90f1bf43381








Nat jumped after Clint when they were trying to retrieve the soul stone I believe.

main-qimg-5a3bc6b5762be91f832480e8ef21ba0f


main-qimg-3b0369586583fda782445e5370e33365


main-qimg-91c7ade763237fa1be1a37a01283c59f







Nat and Pietro died for Clint Barton.
 

darth frosty

Dark Lord of the Sith
BGOL Investor
What is something you noticed in Avengers: Endgame that you believe others have missed?



What is something you noticed in Avengers: Endgame that you believe others have missed?

Wow. Guess I'm actually gonna answer this question. My answer's probably gonna get lost in the hundreds of other answers to this famous question, and there's a chance there's already an answer of this. But hey, I haven't seen what I'm about to write be made into a meme/edit on Instagram/Reddit, and honestly I'm just so proud of what I've found(Even though it's probably nothing to be proud of), I just had to write about it.

So, remember this scene in Endgame?

main-qimg-3299b6a3759d95dc287ba6289e611144






When Tony Stark is making the Nano Gauntlet with Rocket and Professor Hulk.

We see him using this Holographic-UI thing on a glass he uses to shield himself from the Stones, and said UI controls these small robot claws.

main-qimg-6c68e34537d3ad54372fa7ade3b14163






These claws hold onto an Infinity Stone. The camera focuses on the Gauntlet, and the claws draw closer to said Gauntlet, making contact with it.

main-qimg-129ec74bb0885775f02550af27a2dfbb






And then the Gauntlet is assembled,

main-qimg-821e665762275b8108df6813b901c2eb






And then “Boom!”,

main-qimg-80acc326589c1bcadd4ca55399e9fa5f






Says Rocket.

Well, I was rewatching Captain America: The First Avenger yesterday and I noticed a scene so similar to the Nano Gauntlet scene.

We got Howard Stark behind a protective glass, handling some controls, and those controls control some claws.

main-qimg-a6b98f9ee4ada0fc1facea4fa5ae4b76






And that claw is holding onto a piece of the Tesseract-powered HYDRA weapon.

main-qimg-731a59c299b40cf6ac6badb596c19443






He plays with that component a bit, with the camera focusing on on the claw and that component, and then another claw comes in, those 2 claws draw closer to each other and then make contact,

main-qimg-148d9011a9ce642c79f3a56d66c3a5f6






Then BOOM!

main-qimg-7c1e6323869c3fcaed65368a1a32ccac






An actual explosion happens.

I don't know. I just find it so poetic (If that's the right term). Howard Stark plays with a small piece of the Tesseract’s power, he simply touched it with a claw, and it explodes in front of him, then his son plays with all 6 of the Infinity Stones, assembles one of the most powerful weapons in the universe, and the only explosion is Rocket messing around.

Seriously, why aren't people talking about this? Like, this has got to be so obvious and blatant you'd think people would talk about it like the:

• Everything special about you came out of a bottle-Lifts Mjolnir//You're not the kind to make the sacrifice play//Sacrifices life.

• The big saved you for a reason, guess we'll find out//It's like I was made for this
 

darth frosty

Dark Lord of the Sith
BGOL Investor
What's something not a lot of people notice about the MCU (Marvel Cinematic Universe)?

Thor has no real friends among the Avengers

I started writing this article 18 months ago but could never really motivate myself to finishing it. But upon re-watching Thor: Ragnarok today, I came across a quote from Thor that reignited my passion for this topic. So here it is, better late than never:
It has been my observation that in the previous Avengers movies, Thor has always been rather detached from the other Avengers. He was the resident alien of the group, he spoke “funny” (see below) which probably caused raised eyebrows on a regular basis. He must have felt out of place a lot of the time and therefore had problems relating to the group at large and vice versa.

main-qimg-422b1dd83c14ffbbae2ebad67b51d1dc


Honestly, we see so little personal interaction between Thor and the other characters that it is hard to properly assess their friendship levels. But I will give it a try with the input we are presented with.

He certainly had a respectful relationship with Tony, but not at a ‘good friend’ level. There was friendly banter between Thor and Tony, you might think it was funny that Tony kept calling him “Point Break” as evidenced in Thor: Ragnarok when Thor tries to access the Quin Jet. But I see it as evidence that they never connected earnestly. Everyone else Tony at least calls by their last name, but Thor will always be the exception.

main-qimg-0e611e1ac1986ebc9f1e711ba6522ca2


Cap would be the one Thor connected with the most. In Avengers: Age of Ultron he shares his Asgardian Drink with Cap, knowing he could take it, as “it was not meant for mortal men”.

main-qimg-da7b347fa801ef61653347a38e805dd2


But that is a sign of respect for a fellow warrior, not necessarily of friendship. They are both out of place in a way, maybe that was their connection.

Then there is that famous scene where the gang takes turns trying to lift Mjolnir. It was truly a fun night and they were letting loose after a two-year hunt for the sceptre.

main-qimg-c07cd4b301b8bd1af72f4f0fcbf7ba32


But wait: it took them TWO YEARS to do this? They have lived together in the Avengers Tower for years and this is the first time they try lifting Mjolnir? A bit late, don’t you think?

And don’t argue that Thor was not there because he was with Jane, we just learned that she was somewhere around the world and he didn’t even know where.

So I postulate that he must have felt pretty alone most of the time and that he had little personal support from the Avengers.

This becomes obvious in Avengers: Endgame after the group ambushes Thanos and Thor decapitates him. Thor is apparently traumatized, his voice breaks as he says: I went for the head” and he separates himself from the group. No one follows him to try and comfort him, he deals with it alone like he always has.

main-qimg-7d574a59e543aa0d38c90c92dde79f34


But what about Banner/Hulk? In Thor: Ragnarok, we see his relationship with “Banner” evolve. Again, before the events of Thor: Ragnarok Thor and Banner were never friends. Thor said himself when he meets Banner/Hulk in the arena:
“Banner, I never thought I would say this but I’m happy to see you.”, emphasizing the never and the happy. (This is the afore-mentioned quote, by the way)

So after the events of Thor: Ragnarok they are friends, right? Let’s fast-forward to Avengers: Endgame, when we are about to meet a fallen god who has been in desperate need of a friend for five years.

This is a very meaningful conversation Prof. Hulk has with Valkyrie upon their arrival in New Asgard. It goes by very fast, but there is a lot of important information in there:

V.: “He won’t see you.”
P.H.: “It’s that bad, huh?”
V.: “We only see him once a month when he comes in for… supplies.”
P.H.: “It’s that bad.”
V.: “Yeah!”

main-qimg-51b15d5f88aeae1de3e1834d6cd02385


Do you see it? Do you see the knowing look on his face? No surprise, just acceptance. This means that Hulk has known all along that Thor has not been doing well. If he hadn’t, the conversation might have gone something like this:
V.: “He won’t see you.”
P.H.: “Why, what’s wrong? I don’t understand, why won’t he see us?”
V.: “Well, he has been in a bad shape for years, drinking and gaming the time away, which you would have known, if you or any of his so-called Avenger friends had bothered to inquire about him once in a while.”

This is why I believe that all the Avengers have known that Thor is suffering from PTSD and is in desperate need of help. But instead of helping him they decided to focus their attention on more important issues than the existential crisis of their distant work buddy Thor:
  • Black Widow is preoccupied with Barton,
  • Cap focusses his attention on his self-help group of random strangers,
  • Banner locks himself in a lab for 18 months and works on his anger issues,
  • Tony lives on a farm in the middle of nowhere and enjoys his family life,
  • The others (Rocket, Rhody, etc.) are running errands for Black Widow.
Plus I don’t think that any of them have made serious attempts at helping Thor in the past five years. They might have inquired about him, found out he was in bad shape (no pun intended), maybe extended a hand at some point, but gave up out of disinterest.

Obviously, there was no falling-out between them otherwise the reunion would have turned out differently.

But no, there was nothing, in fact. No help, no concern for the man who has “saved Earth a couple of times” (quote from Thor: Ragnarok).

Someone might argue that Thor has not been such a good friend himself, so why should anyone care for him? Again I refer to Avengers: Endgame and the following conversation:
Prof. Hulk: “I get it. You’re in a rough spot, okay? I’ve been there myself. And you want to know who helped me out of it?”
Thor: “I don’t know, was it Natasha?”
Prof. Hulk: “It was you. You helped me.”

So Thor was a friend to Banner/Hulk when he was lost, but Banner/Hulk could not bring himself to helping Thor when he knew that Thor was at a low point? What does that say about him? What does it say about all of our heroes? They call upon Thor when they need him, but otherwise they don’t care. It makes me really sad, to be honest.
 

Flawless

Flawless One
BGOL Investor
What's something not a lot of people notice about the MCU (Marvel Cinematic Universe)?
Thor has no real friends among the Avengers

I started writing this article 18 months ago but could never really motivate myself to finishing it. But upon re-watching Thor: Ragnarok today, I came across a quote from Thor that reignited my passion for this topic. So here it is, better late than never:
It has been my observation that in the previous Avengers movies, Thor has always been rather detached from the other Avengers. He was the resident alien of the group, he spoke “funny” (see below) which probably caused raised eyebrows on a regular basis. He must have felt out of place a lot of the time and therefore had problems relating to the group at large and vice versa.

main-qimg-422b1dd83c14ffbbae2ebad67b51d1dc


Honestly, we see so little personal interaction between Thor and the other characters that it is hard to properly assess their friendship levels. But I will give it a try with the input we are presented with.

He certainly had a respectful relationship with Tony, but not at a ‘good friend’ level. There was friendly banter between Thor and Tony, you might think it was funny that Tony kept calling him “Point Break” as evidenced in Thor: Ragnarok when Thor tries to access the Quin Jet. But I see it as evidence that they never connected earnestly. Everyone else Tony at least calls by their last name, but Thor will always be the exception.

main-qimg-0e611e1ac1986ebc9f1e711ba6522ca2


Cap would be the one Thor connected with the most. In Avengers: Age of Ultron he shares his Asgardian Drink with Cap, knowing he could take it, as “it was not meant for mortal men”.

main-qimg-da7b347fa801ef61653347a38e805dd2


But that is a sign of respect for a fellow warrior, not necessarily of friendship. They are both out of place in a way, maybe that was their connection.

Then there is that famous scene where the gang takes turns trying to lift Mjolnir. It was truly a fun night and they were letting loose after a two-year hunt for the sceptre.

main-qimg-c07cd4b301b8bd1af72f4f0fcbf7ba32


But wait: it took them TWO YEARS to do this? They have lived together in the Avengers Tower for years and this is the first time they try lifting Mjolnir? A bit late, don’t you think?

And don’t argue that Thor was not there because he was with Jane, we just learned that she was somewhere around the world and he didn’t even know where.

So I postulate that he must have felt pretty alone most of the time and that he had little personal support from the Avengers.

This becomes obvious in Avengers: Endgame after the group ambushes Thanos and Thor decapitates him. Thor is apparently traumatized, his voice breaks as he says: I went for the head” and he separates himself from the group. No one follows him to try and comfort him, he deals with it alone like he always has.

main-qimg-7d574a59e543aa0d38c90c92dde79f34


But what about Banner/Hulk? In Thor: Ragnarok, we see his relationship with “Banner” evolve. Again, before the events of Thor: Ragnarok Thor and Banner were never friends. Thor said himself when he meets Banner/Hulk in the arena:
“Banner, I never thought I would say this but I’m happy to see you.”, emphasizing the never and the happy. (This is the afore-mentioned quote, by the way)

So after the events of Thor: Ragnarok they are friends, right? Let’s fast-forward to Avengers: Endgame, when we are about to meet a fallen god who has been in desperate need of a friend for five years.

This is a very meaningful conversation Prof. Hulk has with Valkyrie upon their arrival in New Asgard. It goes by very fast, but there is a lot of important information in there:

V.: “He won’t see you.”
P.H.: “It’s that bad, huh?”
V.: “We only see him once a month when he comes in for… supplies.”
P.H.: “It’s that bad.”
V.: “Yeah!”

main-qimg-51b15d5f88aeae1de3e1834d6cd02385


Do you see it? Do you see the knowing look on his face? No surprise, just acceptance. This means that Hulk has known all along that Thor has not been doing well. If he hadn’t, the conversation might have gone something like this:
V.: “He won’t see you.”
P.H.: “Why, what’s wrong? I don’t understand, why won’t he see us?”
V.: “Well, he has been in a bad shape for years, drinking and gaming the time away, which you would have known, if you or any of his so-called Avenger friends had bothered to inquire about him once in a while.”

This is why I believe that all the Avengers have known that Thor is suffering from PTSD and is in desperate need of help. But instead of helping him they decided to focus their attention on more important issues than the existential crisis of their distant work buddy Thor:
  • Black Widow is preoccupied with Barton,
  • Cap focusses his attention on his self-help group of random strangers,
  • Banner locks himself in a lab for 18 months and works on his anger issues,
  • Tony lives on a farm in the middle of nowhere and enjoys his family life,
  • The others (Rocket, Rhody, etc.) are running errands for Black Widow.
Plus I don’t think that any of them have made serious attempts at helping Thor in the past five years. They might have inquired about him, found out he was in bad shape (no pun intended), maybe extended a hand at some point, but gave up out of disinterest.

Obviously, there was no falling-out between them otherwise the reunion would have turned out differently.

But no, there was nothing, in fact. No help, no concern for the man who has “saved Earth a couple of times” (quote from Thor: Ragnarok).

Someone might argue that Thor has not been such a good friend himself, so why should anyone care for him? Again I refer to Avengers: Endgame and the following conversation:
Prof. Hulk: “I get it. You’re in a rough spot, okay? I’ve been there myself. And you want to know who helped me out of it?”
Thor: “I don’t know, was it Natasha?”
Prof. Hulk: “It was you. You helped me.”

So Thor was a friend to Banner/Hulk when he was lost, but Banner/Hulk could not bring himself to helping Thor when he knew that Thor was at a low point? What does that say about him? What does it say about all of our heroes? They call upon Thor when they need him, but otherwise they don’t care. It makes me really sad, to be honest.

Hawkeye and Black widow were the only friends, the rest were coworkers.
 

darth frosty

Dark Lord of the Sith
BGOL Investor

What have you noticed in Marvel movies that most people have not?

Ya know what I just realized?

I don’t think Steve entirely enjoyed his time in the 1940s.

main-qimg-a96324e0dc0850d46bde80d9de200bce



He looks happy enough, but think about it. For the last several years, he’s been fighting side by side with heroes and patriots like War Machine and Falcon.

main-qimg-53690ea8d16a1b5284398d2b17d44ab1



Notice what those two have in common? This isn’t a trick question. They are both black. Neither one of them would have been popular heroes back in the 1940s. Far from it.

main-qimg-fe860e8b04531bf80b3651945d9dc7f8



So, what would it be like for Cap? How would he react to seeing black people belittled and mocked for the color of their skin, while remembering all the powerful experiences he had with Sam and Rhodey? I for one don’t believe he sat by and acted like nothing was wrong. Not with Cap’s character.

I suspect he hated it. He knew he couldn’t be very active because the world needed to keep thinking he was dead, so there wasn’t anything he could do.

I’m sure seeing Peggy again was nice, but was it worth it to have to rewind to a time with more bigotry? Was it worth it to have to see his own teammates belittled and mocked by association? I think not.

But I’m not the one who chose, Cap is. And who knows, maybe his experiences in the older days of America were the very reason he chose Sam as his successor.

main-qimg-ebfcf7c1c99a324cfed3c9c4424442eb



And a fine successor he is.
 
Top