All Believers In God, Listen to this Man's Reasons For NOT Believing. I Agree 100%.

[Ill Paragraph]

Re: All Believers In God, Listen to this Man's Reasons For NOT Believing. I Agree 10

see above post

The figures are like I said a fabrication of Alan taylors imagination. Good on you for debating imaginated figures and real facts

What you quoted had to do with indigenous American origins, NOT their population. Do YOU even know what you're talking about?

Edit: And by the way, "good on you" for a) completely derailing the thread with death count nonsense and b) relying on Europeans to tell you how many people they killed.

 

[nyeleman]

Re: All Believers In God, Listen to this Man's Reasons For NOT Believing. I Agree 10

So how many native Americans would you say were wiped out and what would you base that number on??

The number is probably less than 20 million over 4 centuries. And I would base that on the fact that hundred years ago populations weren't as inflated and as huge as today , people were sparesly populated due to food not being readily available, fertile land for farming, medicine, life expectancy and other factors. If they were really 100 milliona native americans where did their cities near rivers,lakes and food sources vanish to. How come none of the accounts of the europeans not say they killed or subjugated that many. Theres no way 50 million people can disappear with no one recording or even noticing something wrong .

 

[HALO2]

Re: All Believers In God, Listen to this Man's Reasons For NOT Believing. I Agree 10

didn't watch the vid, but i don't blame you for not believing because the only thing nggas believe in is smoking weed and 24 inch rims.

 

[divine]

Re: All Believers In God, Listen to this Man's Reasons For NOT Believing. I Agree 10

The number is probably less than 20 million over 4 centuries.

Source?

 

[nyeleman]

Re: All Believers In God, Listen to this Man's Reasons For NOT Believing. I Agree 10

In your feeble mind you really think you debunked something? Seriously? Did you post any link/source that says the number is false?

NO I posted a link that reviews his book and mentions the AUTHOR HAS A DISCLAIMER THAT HIS THEORY IS FAKE. So guess what that makes you quoting a fake theory as fact Do your best to deflect the fact that the ground you stood on is now air . How can a rational adult quote books as fact when the author clearly says it's not. I wonder do you even have the book or did you just think you could sneak misinformation as fact. I am here dumbfounded to the fact that someone claiming to be so smart is so stupid

 

[exiledking]

Re: All Believers In God, Listen to this Man's Reasons For NOT Believing. I Agree 10

I too believe cause I want to believe. Why not? My mother is 82. Her life at times was a living hell. She was the so called black sheep of her family. She was abused by her first husband. Worked 25 years at a job that did not offer retirement. While she work at her main job, she work several others to make ends meet. Five years ago she had a massive heart attack and survived about a 5 hour heart surgery. But today she is happier and healthier than she has ever been. I tell you, there is a God. Yes, I want to believe cause I want to see my moms in heaven. I want to see my pops who died in 2002 from lung cancer. I want to see my great great grandfather who was born a slave in 1831 but was later able to buy over a 100 acres of land only to have a loan shark still it from him.

Yes I want to believe. You keep your arguments about there is no God. Ive had too many spiritual moments in my life that I could not explain away then I still can't explain them away now.

theres lots that we all WANT to see and do, doesn't mean we get to bruh.

And being an athiest doesn't mean that any of us know how things happen outside of our understanding, they are simply OUTSIDE of our understanding.

When you say that you can't explain something away, then say that God is the explanation, that's an EXPLANATION. It's just one that says a whole lot about what you don't know. If that's called GOD, then I'm all for it.

Oddly enough, we wouldn't know half of what we actually do know if we just went with that kind of thinking. Whenever we don't know something, we chalk it up to God, and stop thinking about it.

Humans say that we believe in God, but certainly do a whole lot of backup planning just in case. I'm glad for that.

 

[Ill Paragraph]

Re: All Believers In God, Listen to this Man's Reasons For NOT Believing. I Agree 10

didn't watch the vid, but i don't blame you for not believing because the only thing nggas believe in is smoking weed and 24 inch rims.

On the contrary, I firmly believe that you're a cock-sucking douche bag who lies to anonymous internet cats about being in med school.

 

[nyeleman]

Re: All Believers In God, Listen to this Man's Reasons For NOT Believing. I Agree 10

Source?

Oh goodness me, You ask for my opinion now you want a source Where do opinions come from??? have you ever noticed theres something above your neck I wonder. Do you even know what the word 'Probably' means

 

[Ill Paragraph]

Re: All Believers In God, Listen to this Man's Reasons For NOT Believing. I Agree 10

The number is probably less than 20 million over 4 centuries. And I would base that on the fact that hundred years ago populations weren't as inflated and as huge as today , people were sparesly populated due to food not being readily available, fertile land for farming, medicine, life expectancy and other factors. If they were really 100 milliona native americans where did their cities near rivers,lakes and food sources vanish to. How come none of the accounts of the europeans not say they killed or subjugated that many. Theres no way 50 million people can disappear with no one recording or even noticing something wrong .

Is this (particularly the bolded) an example of naivety or self-delusion? Who was supposed to 'notice something wrong?' The people doing the killing, or the people being murdered? I'd wager that indigenous Americans probably noticed. At any rate, I find it interesting that your estimate closely mirrors that of those who attempt to minimize the deleterious impact of European invasion of the Americas.

 

[divine]

Re: All Believers In God, Listen to this Man's Reasons For NOT Believing. I Agree 10

Oh goodness me, You ask for my opinion now you want a source Where do opinions come from??? have you ever noticed theres something above your neck I wonder. Do you even know what the word 'Probably' means

I asked for you count and asked for a source? If your opinion is not based on anything.. did you just make it up? How can you have an opinion about numbers?

 

[nyeleman]

Re: All Believers In God, Listen to this Man's Reasons For NOT Believing. I Agree 10

Is this (particularly the bolded) an example of naivety or self-delusion? Who was supposed to 'notice something wrong?' The people doing the killing, or the people being murdered? I'd wager that indigenous Americans probably noticed. At any rate, I find it interesting that your estimate closely mirrors that of those who attempt to minimize the deleterious impact of European invasion of the Americas.

Don't be an idiot , how do you think archaelogists pick where to dig for ancient civilisations or past kingdoms. If your ass was to die today do you know how many belongings you would have left now multiply that 50 million. How can ground penetrating radar cannot locate 50 million skeletons from 4 centuries ago when it can locate skeletons from under the indian ocean. 50 million people just don't disappear with no trace unless they are a figment of your imagination. Do you even know what kind of resources on land would be there to sustain 50 million souls

 

[divine]

Re: All Believers In God, Listen to this Man's Reasons For NOT Believing. I Agree 10

So how many native Americans would you say were wiped out and what would you base that number on??

The number is probably less than 20 million over 4 centuries.

Source?

Oh goodness me, You ask for my opinion now you want a source Where do opinions come from??? have you ever noticed theres something above your neck I wonder. Do you even know what the word 'Probably' means

I asked for you count and asked for a source? If your opinion is not based on anything.. did you just make it up? How can you have an opinion about numbers?

You seriously believe I'm simply asking for your opinion?

 

[divine]

Re: All Believers In God, Listen to this Man's Reasons For NOT Believing. I Agree 10

Don't be an idiot , how do you think archaelogists pick where to dig for ancient civilisations or past kingdoms. If your ass was to die today do you know how many belongings you would have left now multiply that 50 million. How can ground penetrating radar cannot locate 50 million skeletons from 4 centuries ago when it can locate skeletons from under the indian ocean. 50 million people just don't disappear with no trace unless they are a figment of your imagination. Do you even know what kind of resources on land would be there to sustain 50 million souls

SO, you claim it was 20 million.

You say

50 million people just don't disappear with no trace

Did they find 20 million remains? What is that number based on?

 

[brown_joelewis]

Re: All Believers In God, Listen to this Man's Reasons For NOT Believing. I Agree 10

thats called perseverance, what about people that couldnt go on and killed themselves and there families is that Satan ?

That's more than perserverance. It's called Faith.

 

[nyeleman]

Re: All Believers In God, Listen to this Man's Reasons For NOT Believing. I Agree 10

I asked for you count and asked for a source? If your opinion is not based on anything.. did you just make it up? How can you have an opinion about numbers?

I see no admition from you that you are clueless about what you debate all I see is deflection. Honestly your ownly standpoint is the fact that you are quoting Alan Taylors Imagination and taking it seriously when he himself doesn't. How can you as a black man obey a CAC's imagination , seriously this is why you black atheists are headless chickens who cannot think for themselves. How many times have I mentioned NKVD I mean even their website http://www.nkvd.org/en/index.html directs you to the reports compiled in 1954 about Stalin's massacres, witness reports. Maybe the word NKVD is too big for your small mind but the NKVD were the Russian equivalent of the FBI/CIA

 

[Ill Paragraph]

Re: All Believers In God, Listen to this Man's Reasons For NOT Believing. I Agree 10

Don't be an idiot , how do you think archaelogists pick where to dig for ancient civilisations or past kingdoms. If your ass was to die today do you know how many belongings you would have left now multiply that 50 million. How can ground penetrating radar cannot locate 50 million skeletons from 4 centuries ago when it can locate skeletons from under the indian ocean. 50 million people just don't disappear with no trace unless they are a figment of your imagination. Do you even know what kind of resources on land would be there to sustain 50 million souls

This sounds disturbingly like the argument biblical literalists employ when denying the existence of dinosaurs.

At any rate, if we can agree that accurate estimations of pre-colonial American indigenous populations are nearly impossible to gather, how did YOU come up with your estimate? Did you acquire it from one of those paper opinion sources, or did you just pull it out of your ass?

 

[Ill Paragraph]

Re: All Believers In God, Listen to this Man's Reasons For NOT Believing. I Agree 10

I see no admition from you that you are clueless about what you debate all I see is deflection. Honestly your ownly standpoint is the fact that you are quoting Alan Taylors Imagination and taking it seriously when he himself doesn't. How can you as a black man obey a CAC's imagination , seriously this is why you black atheists are headless chickens who cannot think for themselves. How many times have I mentioned NKVD I mean even their website http://www.nkvd.org/en/index.html directs you to the reports compiled in 1954 about Stalin's massacres, witness reports. Maybe the word NKVD is too big for your small mind but the NKVD were the Russian equivalent of the FBI/CIA

I see no acknowledgment from you that you COMPLETELY deflected by bringing this shit up in the first place.

Also, do you think that Alan Taylors is the only person who estimates that Europeans were directly responsible for the deaths of tens of millions of Native Americans? You can't be this obtuse.

 

[nyeleman]

Re: All Believers In God, Listen to this Man's Reasons For NOT Believing. I Agree 10

SO, you claim it was 20 million. Did they find 20 million remains? What is that number based on?

Theres this big book called a dictionary you might want to acquiant yourself with the word I said PROBABLY. You seem to think an opinion is similar to fact, maybe thats why you cannot grasp the essence of a debate. My opinion based on probability comes from reading the accounts of native americans and assuming the same has been happening from the first time the settlers landed. I know about the cherokee removals, seminole wars, chotaw removals and the numbers of deaths weren't even in the 10000's. My opinion is if millions of native americans were being massacred how come the majority of the anecdotal evidence puts the worsts massacres in small numbers. Also the factor that makes stalins numbers great was the weaponry used to kill, the settlers did even have advanced weapons to kill that many

 

[nyeleman]

Re: All Believers In God, Listen to this Man's Reasons For NOT Believing. I Agree 10

Also, do you think that Alan Taylors is the only person who estimates that Europeans were directly responsible for the deaths of tens of millions of Native Americans? You can't be this obtuse.

You are so stupid

Why don't you bring up the others that have fabricated the numbers and then I will gladly refute them in 10 minutes tops. Really all I just need to do is read the bibliography to know that 100% of them are making up figures. How can you claim to know the exact number when NO ONE IN HISTORY HAS EVER REECORDE THAT NUMBER, That alone tells me how stupid and irrational you are.

 

[divine]

Re: All Believers In God, Listen to this Man's Reasons For NOT Believing. I Agree 10

NKVD estimated 20 million. You estimate 20 million native Americans (not including the slaves). So are you now agreeing Christians killed more?

I see no admition from you that you are clueless about what you debate all I see is deflection. Honestly your ownly standpoint is the fact that you are quoting Alan Taylors Imagination and taking it seriously when he himself doesn't. How can you as a black man obey a CAC's imagination , seriously this is why you black atheists are headless chickens who cannot think for themselves. How many times have I mentioned NKVD I mean even their website http://www.nkvd.org/en/index.html directs you to the reports compiled in 1954 about Stalin's massacres, witness reports. Maybe the word NKVD is too big for your small mind but the NKVD were the Russian equivalent of the FBI/CIA

 

[LeftyLuchini]

Re: All Believers In God, Listen to this Man's Reasons For NOT Believing. I Agree 10

Peace,

One of the best articulated, most thoughtful and convincing arguments about God and belief that I've ever had the pleasure of hearing.

yep.
i like this one too.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUx0Cgifx-Y

 

[nyeleman]

Re: All Believers In God, Listen to this Man's Reasons For NOT Believing. I Agree 10

NKVD estimated 20 million. You estimate 20 million native Americans (not including the slaves). So are you now agreeing Christians killed more?

20 million (by NKVD) PLUS 15 Million(from famines) PLUS 25 million WWII= 60 million

THE NKVD RECORDS are only for the people that were killed by the SECRET POLICE(NKVD)

 

[divine]

Re: All Believers In God, Listen to this Man's Reasons For NOT Believing. I Agree 10

20 million (by NKVD) PLUS 15 Million(from famines) PLUS 25 million WWII= 60 million

THE NKVD RECORDS are only for the people that were killed by the SECRET POLICE(NKVD)

So how many slaves do you think were killed. And how many people killed in wars by christain nations. Do you still think Stalin killed more?

 

[Ill Paragraph]

Re: All Believers In God, Listen to this Man's Reasons For NOT Believing. I Agree 10

You are so stupid

Why don't you bring up the others that have fabricated the numbers and then I will gladly refute them in 10 minutes tops. Really all I just need to do is read the bibliography to know that 100% of them are making up figures. How can you claim to know the exact number when NO ONE IN HISTORY HAS EVER REECORDE THAT NUMBER, That alone tells me how stupid and irrational you are.

Like I said, you're not serious about debating this topic. You just wanted to turn this thread into a swamp by polluting it with your bullshit. Congratulations. You've succeeded.

At any rate, although I know I'm wasting my time trying to get you to answer a straight forward question, here goes: do you believe that European invaders were directly responsible for the deaths of tens of millions of indigenous Americans or not?

Also, why are you so obsessed with a Christian/non-Christian death count comparison, and what does it have to do with the original topic?

 

[nyeleman]

Re: All Believers In God, Listen to this Man's Reasons For NOT Believing. I Agree 10

This sounds disturbingly like the argument biblical literalists employ when denying the existence of dinosaurs.

At any rate, if we can agree that accurate estimations of pre-colonial American indigenous populations are nearly impossible to gather, how did YOU come up with your estimate? Did you acquire it from one of those paper opinion sources, or did you just pull it out of your ass?

Really they are no dinosaurs in the bible See if am not mistaken big reptilian creatures that roamed the earth are mentioned in the bible like the leviathon and behemoths. And further in jewish mysticism theres grigori and other creatures the size of 3 humans standing on top of each other. Furthermore ancient relics like the Nile palestrina shows that people knew a lot about dinosaurs. 3

But of course CAC told you that dinosaurs are new and discovered in 1822 by a CAC huh

 

[Ill Paragraph]

Re: All Believers In God, Listen to this Man's Reasons For NOT Believing. I Agree 10

Really all I just need to do is read the bibliography to know that 100% of them are making up figures. How can you claim to know the exact number when NO ONE IN HISTORY HAS EVER REECORDE THAT NUMBER..

At any rate, if we can agree that accurate estimations of pre-colonial American indigenous populations are nearly impossible to gather, how did YOU come up with your estimate? Did you acquire it from one of those paper opinion sources, or did you just pull it out of your ass?

...

 

[divine]

Re: All Believers In God, Listen to this Man's Reasons For NOT Believing. I Agree 10

^ he said it was HIS opinion, but refused to base it off of anything.

 

[nyeleman]

Re: All Believers In God, Listen to this Man's Reasons For NOT Believing. I Agree 10

So how many slaves do you think were killed. And how many people killed in wars by christain nations. Do you still think Stalin killed more?

Stalin is the worlds biggest mass murderer that fact alone is not debateble. I don't believe in cooking up numbers from emotional standpoint and using them as fact and then turning misty eyed just because someone refuses to share your vivid imagination. I find it very childlike to debate numbers that don't exist. This debate is simply highlighting how emotive, unstable and irrational you are. Because my simple question is show me the numbers is met with such oestrogenal* outbursts. I know people do not want to accept things that don't conform to the view of the world they hold. It's kind of like the old slavery argument of african americans claiming africans left them when african americans were given a helping hand by nigerian chiefs but rejected

You know whats silly is that the records of bills of lading of slaves exist, but when that information is brought to the frefront it's rejected because people cannot reconcile their imagination and reality

 

[Ill Paragraph]

Re: All Believers In God, Listen to this Man's Reasons For NOT Believing. I Agree 10

Really they are no dinosaurs in the bible See if am not mistaken big reptilian creatures that roamed the earth are mentioned in the bible like the leviathon and behemoths. And further in jewish mysticism theres grigori and other creatures the size of 3 humans standing on top of each other. Furthermore ancient relics like the Nile palestrina shows that people knew a lot about dinosaurs. 3

But of course CAC told you that dinosaurs are new and discovered in 1822 by a CAC huh

You know a sure way to tell when someone is careening off the cliff of reasonable argumentation on this board? When they start posting a lot of and shit isn't even funny.

And now, you're actually arguing that the 'bohemoths' and 'leviathans' mentioned in the bible are..

a) dinosaurs
b) were aboard to Ark, along with humans

 

[divine]

Re: All Believers In God, Listen to this Man's Reasons For NOT Believing. I Agree 10

So how many slaves do you think were killed. And how many people killed in wars by christain nations. Do you still think Stalin killed more?

Stalin is the worlds biggest mass murderer that fact alone is not debateble. I don't believe in cooking up numbers from emotional standpoint and using them as fact and then turning misty eyed just because someone refuses to share your vivid imagination. I find it very childlike to debate numbers that don't exist. This debate is simply highlighting how emotive, unstable and irrational you are. Because my simple question is show me the numbers is met with such oestrogenal* outbursts. I know people do not want to accept things that don't conform to the view of the world they hold. It's kind of like the old slavery argument of african americans claiming africans left them when african americans were given a helping hand by nigerian chiefs but rejected

You know whats silly is that the records of bills of lading of slaves exist, but when that information is brought to the frefront it's rejected because people cannot reconcile their imagination and reality

Weren't you the one who started debating "numbers"?

So, you think Stalin killed more yet you are saying you don't know how many were killed by Christians? So what are you basing that (Atheist killed more) on?

 

[nyeleman]

Re: All Believers In God, Listen to this Man's Reasons For NOT Believing. I Agree 10

You know a sure way to tell when someone is careening off the cliff of reasonable argumentation on this board? When they start posting a lot of and shit isn't even funny.

And now, you're actually arguing that the 'bohemoths' and 'leviathans' mentioned in the bible are..

a) dinosaurs
b) were aboard to Ark, along with humans

Behemoth is a water creature

 

[BGLR1212000]

Re: All Believers In God, Listen to this Man's Reasons For NOT Believing. I Agree 10

20 million (by NKVD) PLUS 15 Million(from famines) PLUS 25 million WWII= 60 million

THE NKVD RECORDS are only for the people that were killed by the SECRET POLICE(NKVD)

Bruh, you're getting ate up.

 

[Ill Paragraph]

Re: All Believers In God, Listen to this Man's Reasons For NOT Believing. I Agree 10

Behemoth is a water creature

Behemoth doesn't exist, bruh. Certainly not in the days of man.

 

[divine]

Re: All Believers In God, Listen to this Man's Reasons For NOT Believing. I Agree 10

Behemoth is a water creature

A mythical one the "breathes" fire in the water. You christians are delusional.

First you say Stalin ( an atheists) killed more than Christians.. then you admit you don;t know how many died because of christians invading America or the slave trade. So you just made up that theory. Now you're speaking about mythical creatures.

 

[nyeleman]

Re: All Believers In God, Listen to this Man's Reasons For NOT Believing. I Agree 10

Weren't you the one who started debating "numbers"?

So, you think Stalin killed more yet you are saying you don't know how many were killed by Christians? So what are you basing that (Atheist killed more) on?

I never said I know how many christians have killed, I simply said it's nowhere near stalin and I asked you to show me proof and you quoted a fake number. Now you are mad that so called atheists are killers You seem to think by taking a tangent then somehow it will hide the fact that your information was downright fabricated. STALIN DID KILL MORE you yourself verified NKVD killed 20 million alone. The issue here is your numbers are fabricated and bullcrap , mine aren't I posted the damn NKVD WEBSITE that points you to at least 100 sources including Encyclopedia britannica. GOIng on a tangent won't hide the fact that you are clueless.