Violence at Tampa health care forum

One thing I need to point out..

Why is it when people are against Obama's health care plan, people try to discredit the people? Is it too much to ask for a debate instead of trying to make these people out to be the next Nazi movement?

Everytime I hear "birther", and "nazi this...." it makes me think that the opposition actually have a good gripe.
 
Notice that I haven't made a comment on this matter.

Reason being, I think that the American people do not care for this bill at all. If Obama's smart, he should find a crisis QUICK, so they can pass this bill under the table like Tax and Trade....

I guess you mean the majority of the American people....either that, or the ones that don't know what the bill is about...

What crisis would make "us" support the bill, an outbreak of measles? A blitz of mad cow disease? I wouldn't know what could bring "people" to support the bill at this point...Hasn't it been tried at least three times before?
 
I guess you mean the majority of the American people....either that, or the ones that don't know what the bill is about...

What crisis would make "us" support the bill, an outbreak of measles? A blitz of mad cow disease? I wouldn't know what could bring "people" to support the bill at this point...Hasn't it been tried at least three times before?

Hell, anything to get our minds off Health Care.

I agree with your notion that majority of the American people *the ones that also vote religiously* do not like this bill at all. However, that's the same group that are being called bigots by Pelosi.
 
You know where it is, in fucking Wall Street and in the pockets of multi national corporations.

I'ma share a story with the board. I used to manage a club when I was in college for this guy that strongly resembled "Dolla Bill". I'll never forget Rule #1. KEEP YOUR EYE..............ON THE MONEY :D Seemed like he wasn't worried about nothin else. So forgive me for being over-critical of the dough.
 
I'ma share a story with the board. I used to manage a club when I was in college for this guy that strongly resembled "Dolla Bill". I'll never forget Rule #1. KEEP YOUR EYE..............ON THE MONEY :D Seemed like he wasn't worried about nothin else. So forgive me for being over-critical of the dough.

What's to be over critical about?

I understand your concern about it...Seems like you feel that the US Govt. has mismanaged their spending tremendously over the past few years...
 
I understand your concern about it...Seems like you feel that the US Govt. has mismanaged their spending tremendously over the past few years...

I'm just making an observation of how the media chooses what issues are newsworthy and how they keep people fightin over issues of less importance. Ultimately, the 24 Trill affects all of us, right, left or indifferent
 
I'm just making an observation of how the media chooses what issues are newsworthy and how they keep people fightin over issues of less importance. Ultimately, the 24 Trill affects all of us, right, left or indifferent

Word...That's why I keep my news watching to a minimum...They (the large news channels) have been bought over and have mostly propagandists on the desk now...Why do you think most newsheads were sad about the passing of Walter Cronkite?

I just can't buy what the media's selling nowadays...
 
Wrong, once again your knowledge of history sucks!

so, clinton didn't authorize a cruise missile strike during the Monica scandal?

BTW, you know I really don't care right? I guess you will make this out as a big deal though anyway...
 
Ya mean like GW's, red, blue, orange, whatever alerts?

fabricated!!!

fear is a 'tactic' just like when Obama said "if we don't act on this stimulus, unemployment is gonna hit 8% :yes:

just like when Paulson said "if I don't get $800 bn, the sky gon' fall!

Thought, somethin IS comin, we just don't know what it is. but rest assured, whatever it is, our liberties will be sacrificed!
 
fear is a 'tactic' just like when Obama said "if we don't act on this stimulus, unemployment is gonna hit 8% :yes:

just like when Paulson said "if I don't get $800 bn, the sky gon' fall!

Thought, somethin IS comin, we just don't know what it is. but rest assured, whatever it is, our liberties will be sacrificed!

I give Bush a pass on some shit *because of 9-11*. One thing you can't say about Bush is this. When he used the "fear" card, it was for good reason.

On the other hand, that stimulus haven't worked at all. Not to mention, we all know how to bring more jobs out. Bad thing about it, Obama disagrees with that style.
 
fear is a 'tactic' just like when Obama said "if we don't act on this stimulus, unemployment is gonna hit 8% :yes:

Fear is an OLD tactic that has worked everywhere...It forces many people to react first w/o much thought instead of taking time to think about what could happen if they supported something...

somethin IS comin, we just don't know what it is. but rest assured, whatever it is, our liberties will be sacrificed!

Something may be coming, but our liberties have already been taken away to some extent...
 
they want there country back from what? A colored person!

Bush broke all kinds of rule for absolute power via chenay but they all stood like sheep!
 
Bush broke all kinds of rule for absolute power via chenay but they all stood like sheep!

I guess it comes down to this: Do we continue to allow the use of fear tactics or Do we stop actin like sheep and demand the change the country wants to see?

those that sacrafice liberty for security deserve neither
 
so, clinton didn't authorize a cruise missile strike during the Monica scandal?

BTW, you know I really don't care right? I guess you will make this out as a big deal though anyway...

You make a statement and then don’t want to be called on it. If you don’t want to be called on them don’t make them!

More of your Matt Drudge/Rush Limbaugh talking points.

:lol:Wag the Dog:lol:

source: Salon

Monday, Sept. 25, 2006 13:10 EST

Revisiting GOP attacks on President Clinton

The Internet makes it much more difficult than ever before to fabricate history because virtually everything is recorded and so easily discovered. Those developments, however, did not deter Jonah Goldberg from writing this demonstrably false historical claim in National Review: "The notion that conservatives opposed Clinton as Commander-in-Chief in the pre-war on terror or in other military ventures is simply unfair ... Sure, there were some wag the dog voices -- like noted rightwing trogs [sic] Arlen Specter and Christopher Hitchens -- but generally even the most partisan Republicans supported Clinton."

It is hard to overstate how false Goldberg's claim is, as even Byron York reported, in Goldberg's own magazine, National Review (emphasis added): "Instead of striking a strong blow against terrorism, the action [launching cruise missiles at Osama bin Laden] set off a howling debate about Clinton's motives. The president ordered the action three days after appearing before the grand jury investigating the Monica Lewinsky affair, and Clinton's critics accused him of using military action to change the subject from the sex-and-perjury scandal -- the so-called 'wag the dog' strategy."

Leading GOP political figures and pundits repeatedly voiced such criticisms against Clinton:

Rep. Dick Armey, GOP majority leader: "The suspicion some people have about the president's motives in this attack [on Iraq] is itself a powerful argument for impeachment," Armey said in a statement. "After months of lies, the president has given millions of people around the world reason to doubt that he has sent Americans into battle for the right reasons."

Rep. Gerald Solomon, R-N.Y.: "It is obvious that they're (the Clinton White House) doing everything they can to postpone the vote on this impeachment in order to try to get whatever kind of leverage they can, and the American people ought to be as outraged as I am about it," Solomon said in an interview with CNN. Asked if he was accusing Clinton of playing with American lives for political expediency, Solomon said, "Whether he knows it or not, that's exactly what he's doing."

GOP Sen. Dan Coats: Coats, a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said in a statement, "While there is clearly much more we need to learn about this attack [on bin Laden] and why it was ordered today, given the president's personal difficulties this week, it is legitimate to question the timing of this action."

Sen. Larry Craig, U.S. Senate Republican Policy Committee: "The foregoing, the premise of the recent film 'Wag the Dog,' might once have seemed farfetched. Yet it can hardly escape comment that on the very day, August 17, that President Bill Clinton is scheduled to testify before a federal grand jury to explain his possibly criminal behavior, Commander-in-Chief Bill Clinton has ordered U.S. Marines and air crews to commence several days of ground and air exercises in, yes, Albania as a warning of possible NATO intervention in next-door Kosovo ...

"Not too many years ago, it would not have entered the mind of even the worst of cynics to speculate whether any American president, whatever his political difficulties, would even consider sending U.S. military personnel into harm's way to serve his own, personal needs. But in an era when pundits openly weigh the question of whether President Clinton will (or should) tell the truth under oath not because he has a simple obligation to do so but because of the possible impact on his political 'viability' -- is it self-evident that military decisions are not affected by similar considerations? Under the circumstances, it is fair to ask to what extent the Clinton Administration has forfeited the benefit of the doubt as to the motives behind its actions."

GOP activist Paul Weyrich: "Paul Weyrich, a leading conservative activist, said Clinton's decision to bomb on the eve of the impeachment vote 'is more of an impeachable offense than anything he is being charged with in Congress.'"

Wall Street Journal editorial: "It is dangerous for an American president to launch a military strike, however justified, at a time when many will conclude he acted only out of narrow self-interest to forestall or postpone his own impeachment."

Sen. Trent Lott, GOP majority leader: "I cannot support this military action in the Persian Gulf at this time," Lott said in a statement. "Both the timing and the policy are subject to question."

Rep. Gerald Solomon: "'Never underestimate a desperate president,' said a furious House Rules Committee Chairman Gerald B.H. Solomon (R-N.Y.). 'What option is left for getting impeachment off the front page and maybe even postponed? And how else to explain the sudden appearance of a backbone that has been invisible up to now?'"

Rep. Tillie Folwer: "'It [the bombing of Iraq] is certainly rather suspicious timing,' said Rep. Tillie Fowler (R-Florida). 'I think the president is shameless in what he would do to stay in office.'"

Phyllis Schlafly, Eagle Forum: "First, it [intervention in Kosovo] is a 'wag the dog' public relations ploy to involve us in a war in order to divert attention from his personal scandals (only a few of which were addressed in the Senate trial). He is again following the scenario of the 'life is truer than fiction' movie 'Wag the Dog.' The very day after his acquittal, Clinton moved quickly to 'move on' from the subject of impeachment by announcing threats to bomb and to send U.S. ground troops into the civil war in Kosovo between Serbian authorities and ethnic Albanians fighting for independence. He scheduled Americans to be part of a NATO force under non-American command."

Jim Hoagland, Washington Post: "President Clinton has indelibly associated a justified military response ... with his own wrongdoing ... Clinton has now injected the impeachment process against him into foreign policy, and vice versa."

Wall Street Journal editorial: "Perceptions that the American president is less interested in the global consequences than in taking any action that will enable him to hold onto power [are] a further demonstration that he has dangerously compromised himself in conducting the nation's affairs, and should be impeached."

Leading GOP senators, representatives, editorial boards, organizations and pundits repeatedly called into question Clinton's motives in taking military action, and thus attacked the commander in chief at exactly the time when troops were still in harm's way. The notion that such accusations were made only by a handful of isolated figures -- which Goldberg has the audacity to suggest were actually liberal -- and that the GOP largely supported Clinton's military deployments and refrained from criticizing his motives is just false. That is a fact that Goldberg would have discovered had he undertaken the most minimal amount of research before making those claims.

It is true that some Republican political figures supported some of Clinton's military decisions in Yugoslavia and the Middle East, but efforts to undermine those actions (as well as earlier ones) came from virtually every significant Republican precinct of influence throughout Clinton's presidency. That includes, most prominently, actions Clinton took against Iraq and Osama bin Laden, which were routinely attacked by Republicans as unnecessary.

The claim that Clinton paid insufficient attention to terrorism was one that virtually no Republicans made during the Clinton presidency. To the contrary, terrorism and Islamic fundamentalism were barely on their radar screen, and when they were, it was most prominently to use those issues as a weapon to attack Clinton politically and to suggest that he was deploying the military not for any legitimate reason (such as the terrorist threat) but only to distract the country's attention from the far more pressing sex scandal engulfing our government.

________________________________________________​

source: Think Progress

FLASHBACK: Conservative Lawmakers Decried Clinton’s Attacks Against Osama As ‘Wag the Dog’

In his interview with Fox News’ Chris Wallace, former President Bill Clinton noted that the political right, which now accuses him of not doing enough to stem the al Qaeda terrorist threat, criticized his 1998 missile strikes in Afghanistan as “wag the dog.” Clinton said:

The people on my political right who say I didn’t do enough spent the whole time I was president saying, Why is he so obsessed with bin Laden? That was wag the dog when he tried to kill him.

Originating from a 1997 movie, Wag the Dog was a phrase used by the right to suggest Clinton’s airstrikes were driven by ulterior motives in an effort to distract the public. Some examples below: (see above)


Watch the FLV video

Now disappear like you usually do after getting owed!
 
I guess you believe that 9-11 was fixed too..

Doesn't matter what I think of 9-11.

I'll rephrase my question:

Do you believe there is a time when it is appropriate for the government to deliberately use fear tactics on the population in order to advance a political agenda?
 
Doesn't matter what I think of 9-11.

I'll rephrase my question:

Do you believe there is a time when it is appropriate for the government to deliberately use fear tactics on the population in order to advance a political agenda?

Do you believe there is a time when it is appropriate for the government to deliberately use fear tactics on the population in order to advance a political agenda?

I give Bush a pass on some shit *because of 9-11*. One thing you can't say about Bush is this. When he used the "fear" card, it was for good reason.

I think in classical psychoanalysis, that is called a 'Freudian slip'.

Notice actinanass hasn't been back in this thread to defend that lunacy.

Do you need more proof that the conservative wing nuts are criminals! Their entire thought process is fucked up!
 
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Doesn't matter what I think of 9-11.

I'll rephrase my question:

<font size="3">Do you believe there is a time when it is appropriate for the government to deliberately use fear tactics on the population in order to advance a political agenda?</font size>

Seriously,

I would rate this as among:



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Certainly, the question raises another interesting question (beyond the context with AAA): does the mere mention of a probable or even possible consequence of an action being proposed, constitute a fear tactic ??? - probably best explored in another thread. Still, interesting.

QueEx

 
Seriously,

I would rate this as among:



41tvRoLK%2BGL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA240_SH20_OU01_.jpg

IMO, I rate what he asked as among the easiest questions ever....

I can NEVER think there is a time appropriate for the government to deliberately use fear tactics on the population at ANY point...

There can be explanation for this if needed...
 
IMO, I rate what he asked as among the easiest questions ever....

I can NEVER think there is a time appropriate for the government to deliberately use fear tactics on the population at ANY point...

There can be explanation for this if needed...

I would agree except that the easy part, "NEVER", becomes problematic when we're faced with whether its a deliberate<s>ly</s> use [of] fear tactics".

No?

QueEx
 
I would agree except that the easy part, "NEVER", becomes problematic when we're faced with whether its a deliberate<s>ly</s> use [of] fear tactics".

No?

QueEx

Thing is there are times when people don't realize when that is the case...Or when they do, it's too late.
 
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