Violence at Tampa health care forum

thoughtone

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source: 10connects.com

Tampa, Florida - Angry protesters and strong supporters are clashing inside and all around a health care reform town hall meeting in Downtown Tampa. The meeting which was scheduled to begin at 6:00 at the Children's Board of Hillsborough County drew hundreds of people who quickly began to overwhelm staff and event organizers at the front entrance.

As the building filled to capacity, angry protesters stuck outside began to scream, yell, and chant. At one point, those trying to get inside began banging on windows as Tampa Police officers quickly spread out guarding all entrances.

10 Connects photojournalist Kevin Carlson, currently inside the meeting reports at least one fist fight breaking out inside. Some other journalists remain outside.

Democratic Congresswoman Kathy Castor and State Representative Betty Reed were hosting the event.

UPDATE 7:13pm

Police on bullhorns are trying to break-up the crowd outside the building on 1002 E. Palm Ave.

Many in the crowd are refusing to go.

UPDATE 7:32pm

The forum has ended early.

Related Story - Pelosi: Protests won't derail health care overhaul

Anticipating problems at health care forums, Florida Democratic Party Chair Karen Thurman released the following statement today:

"Throughout the summer, we have been reaching out to Floridians to engage in an important debate on the future our health care system. We have heard story after story from people who are struggling to get the care they need. "Recently, their thoughtful discussions are being interrupted by angry mobs - well funded and organized by Washington special interests - attempting to drown out the voices of the hard-working Floridians who are desperate for health insurance reform. These groups are not concerned about Americans' access to quality heath care, but are extreme ideologues, only interested in 'breaking' the President and thwarting the change Americans voted for last November."

________________________________________________​


source: St. Petersburg Times

Protesters drown out Tampa health care summit
By Adam Smith, Times political editor
Posted: Aug 06, 2009 08:03 PM

TAMPA – Bitter divisions over reforming America's health care system exploded Thursday night in Tampa amid cat calls, jeering and shoving at a town hall meeting.

"Tyranny! Tyranny! Tyranny!" dozens of people shouted as U.S. Rep. Kathy Castor struggled to talk about health insurance reforms under consideration in Washington, D.C.

"There is more consensus than there is disagreement when you get right down to it,'' Castor offered, immediately drowned out by groans and boos.

She pressed on, mostly unheard among the screams from the audience of more than 200.

"Tell the truth! Tell the truth!"

"Read the bill!"

"Forty-million illegals! Forty million illegals!"

The spectacle at the Children's Board in Ybor City sounded more like a wrestling cage match than a panel discussion on national policy, and it was just the latest example of a health care meeting disrupted by livid protesters. Similar scenes are likely to be repeated across the country as lawmakers head back to their home districts for the summer recess.

Thursday's forum/near riot was sponsored by state Rep. Betty Reed, D-Tampa, and the Service Employees International Union, who apparently had hoped to hold something of a pep rally for President Obama's health care reform proposal.

Instead, hundreds of vocal critics turned out, many of them saying they had been spurred on through the Tampa 912 activist group promoted by conservative radio and television personality Glenn Beck. Others had received e-mails from the Hillsborough Republican party that urged people to speak out against the plan and offered talking points to challenge supporters.

An overflow crowd of critics was left waiting outside the building – and in some cases pounding on the meeting room doors – while health care reform activists complained that Democrats and union members were guided into the room for prime seats.

"They can't even run a meeting, and they want to run health care?,'' scoffed Kevin Grant, a Tampa printing business owner, standing near someone wielding a "Shame on you America. You sold your soul to the Devil" sign.

The nationally televised images of protesters lashing out at politicians sympathetic to President Obama's health care proposal certainly drive home the keen opposition to the health care plan. Some Democrats, though, argue that engaged, disruptive protesters only serve depict the GOP as unwilling to work on solutions.

"These groups are not concerned about Americans' access to quality heath care, but are extreme ideologues, only interested in 'breaking' the president and thwarting the change Americans voted for last November," said state Democratic chairwoman Karen Thurman.

Polls show mounting public concern about the nation's debt and deficit, and a CNN poll released this week found 50 percent of those surveyed supportive of the president's plan and 45 percent opposed.

U.S. Rep. Castor said a strong debate is healthy but suggested that many of the protesters who have shown up at town hall meetings in recent weeks would have staunchly opposed the creation of Medicare and Social Security a few decades ago.

"The insurance industry and … Republican activists are manufacturing a lot of these phony protests,'' said Castor, who has been closely involved in the health care debate and said she won't support any bill lacking a government-run insurance option.

She left before the forum ending, which drew more boos. State Rep. Reed said she encouraged Castor to leave because nobody could hear her any way.

Protesters said there was nothing phony about their strong showing, just a bubbling of grass roots anger.

"It's the backlash to the arrogance of our government that you're seeing here,'' said Brad Grabill of Temple Terrace.
 
Ah, for one Obama is Black? There are legitimist protests, but when they try and disrupt and intimidate without a dialog, there is racism.

I wouldn't think it is because he's black, if that was the case he wouldn't have gotten elected, but I could be wrong.

Dialog is key but let me ask you in all seriousness: Do you think the people who oppose HR 3200 don't want some type of relief from health care costs?
 
My opinion on this whole healthcare matter is, if the face behind the healthcare change was white, much of this wouldn't be an issue. The insurance companies would still fight, but these 'tea party' fucks would be nowhere to be found. Many of these white folks, dem or repub, don't want to swallow the fact that a black man might effectively help solve their problems.

Yes, many of Obama's problems stem from the fact that he is (half) black, and that's all people see. No matter how many people want to deny this, the undercurrent of racism permeates through everything Obama says or does.

I haven't seen too many (any) persons of color at these events screaming and shouting about 'socialized healthcare' or 'What happened to my America'.
 
My opinion on this whole healthcare matter is, if the face behind the healthcare change was white, much of this wouldn't be an issue.

They kicked Hillary to the curb when she bought this issue up in 93.

Is it possible that people don't want the Healthcare that Congress is proposing?
 
They kicked Hillary to the curb when she bought this issue up in 93.

Is it possible that people don't want the Healthcare that Congress is proposing?


<font size="4">Is it possible that the protests and violence are actually the result of orchestrated chaos ???

QueEx


</font size>
 
ok lets see, not one arrest reported, neither article mentions any violence towards another person or any property destruction and no one on either side is complaining about being assaulted. Will somebody point to the violence claimed by the OP or is that a gross and blatant overstatement in an effort to cast opponents of the health care proposals in a negative light.......just asking



BigUnc
 
<font size="4">Is it possible that the protests and violence are actually the result of orchestrated chaos ???

QueEx


</font size>

Orchestrated? Maybe, but seriously, People don't trust Republicans anymore, (I know I don't) so where is this "orchestration" originating?

Now the MSM is politicizing the events to the fullest
 
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ok lets see, not one arrest reported, neither article mentions any violence towards another person or any property destruction and no one on either side is complaining about being assaulted. Will somebody point to the violence claimed by the OP or is that a gross and blatant overstatement in an effort to cast opponents of the health care proposals in a negative light.......just asking



BigUnc

Not yet. The protesters have been bum rushing the town hall meetings. I understand the AFLCIO is going to be at many of the upcoming meetings for counter support. I doubt if there will be any violence since these anti healthcare protesters are mostly old people on MEDICARE!
 
<font size="4"><center>
Pelosi Is Not ‘Deranged’ — Swastikas And Comparisons
To Hitler Are On Display At Town Hall Protests </font size></center>



ThinkProgress
on 07 August 09


Earlier this week, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) came under heavy criticism from the right wing for her dismissal of the town hall tea parties as nothing but “Astroturf.” She also noted the disturbing fact that participants have been “carrying swastikas and symbols like that.”

The conservative site Wizbang called her claim a “crock.” Rush Limbaugh said that Pelosi was “deranged” and accused her of calling conservatives “Nazis.” He then, however, went on to note the similarities between Democrats and Nazis:


The Speaker of the House accusing people showing up at these town hall meetings of wearing Swastikas — that is not insignificant folks. This woman is deranged. They are unraveling. But that is not insignificant. You have the Democrat Speaker of the House saying that people — citizens — who are concerned about health care are now wearing Swastikas. She’s basically saying that we are Nazis. She is saying that the people who oppose this are Nazis. [...]​

This party, the Democrat Party, and where it’s taken this country — the radical left leadership of this party — bears much more resemblance to Nazi policies than anything we on the right believe in at all.

Pelosi did not seem to be calling conservative protesters Nazis, but rather calling attention to the disturbing number of Nazi references at these tea party protests. A few examples:


<center>
swastikas.jpg
</center>

The intent of these displays is to portray Obama as Hitler and his proposals as fascist, and they seem to be following the lead of many right-wing pundits. Just yesterday, Limbaugh said, “Adolf Hitler, like Barack Obama, also ruled by dictate.” Fox News host Glenn Beck — an inspiration for many of these town hall attendees — has said “fascism is on the rise.” Even Rep. Eric Cantor (R-VA) has talked about the increasing danger in America of “true fascism.”

This August recess isn’t the first time we’ve seen these displays at tea parties either. Signs comparing Obama to Hitler or other global dictators were prominent at the tea parties a few months ago as well.


Anti-Defamation League National Director and Holocaust survivor Abraham Foxman put out a statement today criticizing "attempts by some opponents of health care reform to bring Nazi imagery into the debate":


Regardless of the political differences and the substantive differences in the debate
over health care, the use of Nazi symbolism is outrageous, offensive and inappropriate.
Americans should be able to disagree on the issues without coloring it with Nazi
imagery and comparisons to Hitler. This is not where the debate should be at all.​

Foxman also criticized Limbaugh's comparison of Democrats to Nazis, saying, "Comparisons to the Nazis are deeply offensive and only serve to diminish and trivialize the extent of the Nazi regime’s crimes against humanity and the murder of six million Jews and millions of others in the Holocaust. I don’t see any comparison here. It’s off-center, off-issue and completely inappropriate



http://thinkprogress.org/2009/08/07/pelosi-swastikas/
 
ok lets see, not one arrest reported, neither article mentions any violence towards another person or any property destruction and no one on either side is complaining about being assaulted. Will somebody point to the violence claimed by the OP or is that a gross and blatant overstatement in an effort to cast opponents of the health care proposals in a negative light.......just asking



BigUnc

St. Louis County, Mo. -- Six people were arrested at a town hall meeting held by Rep. Russ Carnahan at Bernard Middle School last night. <SPAN style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffff00">Two arrests were due to "suspicion of assault</span>, one of resisting arrest and three on suspicion of committing peace disturbances," wrote Leah Thorsen of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch.


Ybor City, Fla. -- "Hundreds of vocal critics" <SPAN style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffff00">stormed a town hall meeting</span> as Rep. Kathy Castor (D) delivered her health-care reform pitch, according to Adam Smith of the St. Petersburg Times. Smith said Castor's remarks were disrupted by "cat calls, jeering and shoving." <SPAN style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffff00">One protester was arrested</span> as dozens in the audience shouted, "tyranny, tyranny, tyranny!"



<font size="3">Is it a gross and blatant overstatement in an effort to cast opponents of the healthcare proprosals in a negative light ? ? ?



</font size>
 
<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/OxWhoKYb2lY&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/OxWhoKYb2lY&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>
 
Orchestrated? Maybe, but seriously, People don't trust Republicans anymore, (I know I don't) so where is this "orchestration" originating?

Now the MSM is politicizing the events to the fullest

See anything in Post Number 11 that gives you a hint ? ? ?

. . . or are you wearing blinders?

QueEx
 
See anything in Post Number 11 that gives you a hint ? ? ?

. . . or are you wearing blinders?

QueEx

as with any story, Limbaugh aligns himself opposite of the Dems & spins the story. He was somewhere on Oxycotins last week when Lloyd Doggett was shouted-down. The sh*t went viral on youtube (thats when he joined in.)

IMO, what you are witnessing is the 'birth' of a 3rd party.
 
as with any story, Limbaugh aligns himself opposite of the Dems & spins the story. He was somewhere on Oxycotins last week when Lloyd Doggett was shouted-down. The sh*t went viral on youtube (thats when he joined in.)

IMO, what you are witnessing is the 'birth' of a 3rd party.

IMO, what you are witnessing is the 'birther' of a 3rd party

neo-nazis-saluting.jpg
 

St. Louis County, Mo. -- Six people were arrested at a town hall meeting held by Rep. Russ Carnahan at Bernard Middle School last night. <SPAN style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffff00">Two arrests were due to "suspicion of assault</span>, one of resisting arrest and three on suspicion of committing peace disturbances," wrote Leah Thorsen of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch.


Ybor City, Fla. -- "Hundreds of vocal critics" <SPAN style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffff00">stormed a town hall meeting</span> as Rep. Kathy Castor (D) delivered her health-care reform pitch, according to Adam Smith of the St. Petersburg Times. Smith said Castor's remarks were disrupted by "cat calls, jeering and shoving." <SPAN style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffff00">One protester was arrested</span> as dozens in the audience shouted, "tyranny, tyranny, tyranny!"



<font size="3">Is it a gross and blatant overstatement in an effort to cast opponents of the healthcare proprosals in a negative light ? ? ?



</font size>



Gotcha, thanks, I'll go along with minor disturbances at this point with the potential to escalate into serious violence.


Looking around news outlets it seems as though democratic party leaders are upset that citizens are exercising their right to assemble and petition the government.

Doesn't matter who organized the protests shouldn't these "leaders" and their followers on the left have a different perspective since just a few years ago when Bush and the GOP occupied the seats of power the left protested frequently, loudly and sometimes violently or is this a matter of we're in power now therefore protesting the actions or potential actions of the government is un american? One thing for sure these protesters have gotten under the skin of Dem leaders. They have taken notice of them so the protesters must be having an effect.

This seems to be a good round up.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jlMpJGn28kqCcgU-aGcYE_ZHW-ywD99TO8MO2

White House advises Dems on health care protests

By RICARDO ALONSO-ZALDIVAR and ERICA WERNER (AP) – 21 hours ago

WASHINGTON — Top White House officials counseled Democratic senators Thursday on coping with disruptions at public events on health care this summer, officials said, and promised the party and allies would respond with twice the force if any individual lawmaker is criticized in television advertising.

These officials also told skittish senators that fresh polling suggests an emphasis on issues such as barring insurers from denying coverage on the basis of pre-existing medical conditions is a political winner, able to increase support among independents, women, seniors and rural voters.

The officials spoke on condition of anonymity, saying they were not authorized to discuss details of the closed-door session that took place hours before lawmakers headed to their home states for a monthlong vacation.

In the week since the House began its own break, several town hall-style meetings have been disrupted by noisy demonstrators. These episodes have drawn widespread media attention, and Republicans have seized on them as well as polls showing a decline in support for President Barack Obama and his agenda as evidence that public support is lacking for his signature legislation.

Pushing back, Democrats have accused Republicans of sanctioning mob tactics, and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., accused protesters of trying to sabotage the democratic process.

The Republican Party says it's not behind the protests, but Reid scoffed at the notion that the protesters reflect grass-roots sentiment. He held up a piece of artificial turf during a session with reporters.

"These are nothing more than destructive efforts to interrupt a debate that we should have, and are having," Reid said Thursday. "They are doing this because they don't have any better ideas. They have no interest in letting the negotiators, even though few in number, negotiate. It's really simple: they're taking their cues from talk show hosts, Internet rumor-mongerers ... and insurance rackets."

Republicans answered back.

"All the polls show there is serious concern, if not outright opposition, to the president's health care plan," said Antonia Ferrier, spokeswoman for House Republican Leader John Boehner of Ohio. "Democrats are ginning up this cynical shell game."

Also Thursday, the AFL-CIO announced plans to mobilize labor activists to attend town hall meetings in 50 congressional districts this month to counter the conservative protesters.

White House aides David Axelrod and Jim Messina traveled to the Capitol for their presentation to Democratic senators. Senators saw videos of disruptions at events held by House members, and were told to organize their events more carefully as well as work with labor unions and other friendly groups to generate enthusiasm.

They also were urged to use these events to stress insurance reforms such as a limit on out-of-pocket expenses for those covered by insurance, a ban on coverage cancellation for the seriously ill and protections for small businesses.

Messina, the deputy White House chief of staff, also said any advertising attack would be met with a bigger response, these officials said.

"It's a challenge, no question about it, and you've got to get out there and make the case," Sen. Chris Dodd, D-Conn., said afterward. "This is not the time for the faint-hearted."

White House aides distributed briefing materials explaining to senators the points Obama is stressing, as well as how to answer commonly asked questions.

Some of the activists who've shown up at town-hall meetings held recently by Sen. Arlen Specter, D-Pa., and other lawmakers are affiliated with loosely connected right-leaning groups, including Conservatives for Patients' Rights and Americans for Prosperity, according to officials at those groups. Some of the activists say they came together during the "Tea Party" anti-big-government protests that happened earlier this year, and they've formed small groups and stayed in touch over e-mail, Facebook and in other ways.

But they insist they're part of a ground-level movement that represents real frustration with government spending and growth.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., was greeted by about 200 demonstrators at an event in Denver, about half supporting the Democrats, and half opposed.

About 20 protesters gathered in Saratoga Springs, N.Y., Thursday to let Democratic Rep. Scott Murphy know they oppose the health care plans in Washington. They carried signs saying: "Obamacare Seniors beware! Rationing is here," and "If socialized medicine is best ... why didn't Ted Kennedy go to Canada?" Motorists honked as they drove by.

So far, three House committees have approved health care legislation, and a measure is expected on the floor this fall. One committee has acted, and a bipartisan group of senators on the Finance Committee has been at work for weeks trying to draft a compromise plan.

Sen. Kent Conrad, D-N.D., a member of the group, said they were discussing exempting insurance policies sold to teachers and first-responders such as police and firefighters from a proposed tax on high-cost insurance.

Chairman Max Baucus, D-Mont., said Thursday the group, which will keep working over the August break, is making progress.

The outlines of a the Finance Committee compromise have emerged in recent weeks — although nothing is final. The package would cost around $900 billion over 10 years and would be fully paid for through a variety of revenue raisers including a tax on health insurers that offer high-cost plans worth more than $20,000 a year.

Individuals would be required to get insurance, either through an employer, on their own, or through a government program. Federal subsidies would help low-income and many middle-class households afford the premiums. Medicaid would be expanded to cover more people close to the poverty line. Nearly all Americans would be covered.

But even the usually optimistic Baucus says it's not a done deal.

"If Republicans aren't there, it could get to the point where some time after the recess ... Democrats may have to go in a different direction," Baucus said after the group returned from a meeting with Obama at the White House.

"I hope not," Baucus added, "but we have to face facts."

Associated Press writers David Espo and Sam Hananel in Washington and Valerie Bauman in Albany, N.Y., contributed to this report.

Copyright © 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved
 
Gotcha, thanks, I'll go along with minor disturbances at this point with the potential to escalate into serious violence.


Looking around news outlets it seems as though democratic party leaders are upset that citizens are exercising their right to assemble and petition the government.

Doesn't matter who organized the protests shouldn't these "leaders" and their followers on the left have a different perspective since just a few years ago when Bush and the GOP occupied the seats of power the left protested frequently, loudly and sometimes violently or is this a matter of we're in power now therefore protesting the actions or potential actions of the government is un american? One thing for sure these protesters have gotten under the skin of Dem leaders. They have taken notice of them so the protesters must be having an effect.

This seems to be a good round up.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jlMpJGn28kqCcgU-aGcYE_ZHW-ywD99TO8MO2

White House advises Dems on health care protests

By RICARDO ALONSO-ZALDIVAR and ERICA WERNER (AP) – 21 hours ago

WASHINGTON — Top White House officials counseled Democratic senators Thursday on coping with disruptions at public events on health care this summer, officials said, and promised the party and allies would respond with twice the force if any individual lawmaker is criticized in television advertising.

These officials also told skittish senators that fresh polling suggests an emphasis on issues such as barring insurers from denying coverage on the basis of pre-existing medical conditions is a political winner, able to increase support among independents, women, seniors and rural voters.

The officials spoke on condition of anonymity, saying they were not authorized to discuss details of the closed-door session that took place hours before lawmakers headed to their home states for a monthlong vacation.

In the week since the House began its own break, several town hall-style meetings have been disrupted by noisy demonstrators. These episodes have drawn widespread media attention, and Republicans have seized on them as well as polls showing a decline in support for President Barack Obama and his agenda as evidence that public support is lacking for his signature legislation.

Pushing back, Democrats have accused Republicans of sanctioning mob tactics, and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., accused protesters of trying to sabotage the democratic process.

The Republican Party says it's not behind the protests, but Reid scoffed at the notion that the protesters reflect grass-roots sentiment. He held up a piece of artificial turf during a session with reporters.

"These are nothing more than destructive efforts to interrupt a debate that we should have, and are having," Reid said Thursday. "They are doing this because they don't have any better ideas. They have no interest in letting the negotiators, even though few in number, negotiate. It's really simple: they're taking their cues from talk show hosts, Internet rumor-mongerers ... and insurance rackets."

Republicans answered back.

"All the polls show there is serious concern, if not outright opposition, to the president's health care plan," said Antonia Ferrier, spokeswoman for House Republican Leader John Boehner of Ohio. "Democrats are ginning up this cynical shell game."

Also Thursday, the AFL-CIO announced plans to mobilize labor activists to attend town hall meetings in 50 congressional districts this month to counter the conservative protesters.

White House aides David Axelrod and Jim Messina traveled to the Capitol for their presentation to Democratic senators. Senators saw videos of disruptions at events held by House members, and were told to organize their events more carefully as well as work with labor unions and other friendly groups to generate enthusiasm.

They also were urged to use these events to stress insurance reforms such as a limit on out-of-pocket expenses for those covered by insurance, a ban on coverage cancellation for the seriously ill and protections for small businesses.

Messina, the deputy White House chief of staff, also said any advertising attack would be met with a bigger response, these officials said.

"It's a challenge, no question about it, and you've got to get out there and make the case," Sen. Chris Dodd, D-Conn., said afterward. "This is not the time for the faint-hearted."

White House aides distributed briefing materials explaining to senators the points Obama is stressing, as well as how to answer commonly asked questions.

Some of the activists who've shown up at town-hall meetings held recently by Sen. Arlen Specter, D-Pa., and other lawmakers are affiliated with loosely connected right-leaning groups, including Conservatives for Patients' Rights and Americans for Prosperity, according to officials at those groups. Some of the activists say they came together during the "Tea Party" anti-big-government protests that happened earlier this year, and they've formed small groups and stayed in touch over e-mail, Facebook and in other ways.

But they insist they're part of a ground-level movement that represents real frustration with government spending and growth.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., was greeted by about 200 demonstrators at an event in Denver, about half supporting the Democrats, and half opposed.

About 20 protesters gathered in Saratoga Springs, N.Y., Thursday to let Democratic Rep. Scott Murphy know they oppose the health care plans in Washington. They carried signs saying: "Obamacare Seniors beware! Rationing is here," and "If socialized medicine is best ... why didn't Ted Kennedy go to Canada?" Motorists honked as they drove by.

So far, three House committees have approved health care legislation, and a measure is expected on the floor this fall. One committee has acted, and a bipartisan group of senators on the Finance Committee has been at work for weeks trying to draft a compromise plan.

Sen. Kent Conrad, D-N.D., a member of the group, said they were discussing exempting insurance policies sold to teachers and first-responders such as police and firefighters from a proposed tax on high-cost insurance.

Chairman Max Baucus, D-Mont., said Thursday the group, which will keep working over the August break, is making progress.

The outlines of a the Finance Committee compromise have emerged in recent weeks — although nothing is final. The package would cost around $900 billion over 10 years and would be fully paid for through a variety of revenue raisers including a tax on health insurers that offer high-cost plans worth more than $20,000 a year.

Individuals would be required to get insurance, either through an employer, on their own, or through a government program. Federal subsidies would help low-income and many middle-class households afford the premiums. Medicaid would be expanded to cover more people close to the poverty line. Nearly all Americans would be covered.

But even the usually optimistic Baucus says it's not a done deal.

"If Republicans aren't there, it could get to the point where some time after the recess ... Democrats may have to go in a different direction," Baucus said after the group returned from a meeting with Obama at the White House.

"I hope not," Baucus added, "but we have to face facts."

Associated Press writers David Espo and Sam Hananel in Washington and Valerie Bauman in Albany, N.Y., contributed to this report.

Copyright © 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved

Looking around news outlets

Site your ‘news outlet’ sources.

it seems as though democratic party leaders are upset that citizens are exercising their right to assemble and petition the government.

Nobody is upset that citizens are exercising their right to assemble and petition the government. Lamarr has been trying to insinuate that. What democrats and liberal are upset about is that these protesters are disrupting these town hall meetings and preventing disgruntled citizens from questioning their representatives. Their goal is to shut down debate.
 
source: Think Progress

Steele Distances Himself From Town Hall Mobs: ‘We’re Not Encouraging People To Be Angry’

This afternoon, ThinkProgress was on a conference call hosted by RNC Chairman Michael Steele. In response to a question from The Washington Times about protests inside health care town halls, Steele distanced himself and the RNC from the protesters:

STEELE: I had nothing to do with that, I did not encourage that. And we’re not encouraging people to be angry I mean to the point of being nasty and brutish and ugly. That’s not what this is about. There’s no upside for the Republican Party or the people involved to do that. Now some people, you know, that’s how they express their frustration, that’s how they express their frustration. But that’s not something deliberately coordinated by me or any one state party.

In condemning these disruptions, Steele placed himself at odds with a number of other Republican leaders. Recently House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-OH) promised that House Democrats would have a “very, very hot summer” when they had to face their constituents. Today, in fact, he even sent out a “GOP Leader Alert” that seemingly promoted the mob attacks on his colleagues:

boehner.gif

Rep. Pete Sessions (R-TX) has gone even further, bluntly telling the press that the time for polite town halls is now “over.” The NRCC also sent out a jubilant e-mail recently that praised the disruptions as “recess roasting.”

Steele may be distancing himself now, but in the past, he has embraced astroturfing tactics. In 2006, the Maryland GOP bused in homeless people from outside the state to hand out flyers on behalf of Steele, who was incorrectly identified as a Democrat.

The Washington Independent’s David Weigel, who was also on the call, noted that Steele said the stock market improving is a direct result of Democratic legislation slowing down in Congress.

________________________________________________​

Update Earlier today, Sen John McCain (R-AZ) voiced his displeasure with the town hall mobs via Twitter: "Town hall meetings are an American tradition - we should allow everyone to express their views without disruption - even if we disagree!"Comments425 146 Digg It! SharePrint
 
Gotcha, thanks, I'll go along with minor disturbances at this point with the potential to escalate into serious violence.


Looking around news outlets it seems as though democratic party leaders are upset that citizens are exercising their right to assemble and petition the government.

Doesn't matter who organized the protests shouldn't these "leaders" and their followers on the left have a different perspective since just a few years ago when Bush and the GOP occupied the seats of power the left protested frequently, loudly and sometimes violently or is this a matter of we're in power now therefore protesting the actions or potential actions of the government is un american?
<font size="3">
Well, are you looking for arguments to support the protesters (its okay if the protestors are violent and disruptive, because someone else was years ago), or, are you searching for the truth (is there something behind the protests designed to prevent and disrupt a real debate of the issues) ? ? ?</font size>

One thing for sure these protesters have gotten under the skin of Dem leaders. They have taken notice of them so the protesters must be having an effect.

<font size="3">I'm more concerned that the protesters have gotten under the skin of free and intelligent discourse. I'm a small business man who happens to offer health insurance, at no cost, to my employees. I'm interested in learning the pros and cons of the proposals, and I don't give a shit which side offers them.

What I don't want :angry:, however, is people drowning out the real debate with bullshit propagated by one side or the other. I'm not interested in the least bit in the partisan struggles as they usually don't have shit to do with my life anyway. If you're against the healthcare proposals, hell, maintain your opposition. On the other hand, please don't drown out my opportunity and the opportunity of those like me, who want to know how the various healthcare proposals will affect us and our bottom lines (wallets).

These disruptive protests make me think the opposition doesn't have the facts on their side, so they're trying to drown out the debate in order to confuse the issue.

QueEx

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What I don't want :angry:, however, is people drowning out the real debate with bullshit propagated by one side or the other. I'm not interested in the least bit in the partisan struggles as they usually don't have shit to do with my life anyway. If you're against the healthcare proposals, hell, maintain your opposition. On the other hand, please don't drown out my opportunity and the opportunity of those like me, who want to know how the various healthcare proposals will affect us and our bottom lines (wallets).

How bout that. . . . I agree 100%

These disruptive protests make me think the opposition doesn't have the facts on their side, so they're trying to drown out the debate in order to confuse the issue.

that works both ways, we expect our officials to at least, read the bills they are proposing. And before dismissing the debate as usual partisan politics, I think the people in opposition have found statements in HR 3200 they seriously question, or they need further clarification. For example, (and I don't know if this is true but) Is the govt going to have full access to my bank account?

Pg. 58HC Bill - Govt will have real-time access to individuals finances & a National ID Healthcard will be issued.

Legit concern right?
 
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Well, are you looking for arguments to support the protesters (its okay if the protestors are violent and disruptive, because someone else was years ago), or, are you searching for the truth (is there something behind the protests designed to prevent and disrupt a real debate of the issues) ? ? ?</font size>



<font size="3">I'm more concerned that the protesters have gotten under the skin of free and intelligent discourse. I'm a small business man who happens to offer health insurance, at no cost, to my employees. I'm interested in learning the pros and cons of the proposals, and I don't give a shit which side offers them.

What I don't want :angry:, however, is people drowning out the real debate with bullshit propagated by one side or the other. I'm not interested in the least bit in the partisan struggles as they usually don't have shit to do with my life anyway. If you're against the healthcare proposals, hell, maintain your opposition. On the other hand, please don't drown out my opportunity and the opportunity of those like me, who want to know how the various healthcare proposals will affect us and our bottom lines (wallets).

These disruptive protests make me think the opposition doesn't have the facts on their side, so they're trying to drown out the debate in order to confuse the issue.

QueEx

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Protest and disruption is an accepted form of political discourse in this country. Nothing you, I or anyone else can do about it. Do you really want to take the chance of silencing someone else's dissent when the day may come when you are the dissenter?

I for one believe these protesters have brought up legitimate issues that need to be aired out. There are those only interested in a debate among people who already agree on the major points and wish to shut out those who have fundamental differences with the overall concept.

Regarding an issue of this importance as many voices as possible should be heard. What's the rush QueEx,and others, the first cards won't be handed out until 2013?

Let everyone be heard.
 
Protest and disruption is an accepted form of political discourse in this country. Nothing you, I or anyone else can do about it. Do you really want to take the chance of silencing someone else's dissent when the day may come when you are the dissenter?

I for one believe these protesters have brought up legitimate issues that need to be aired out. There are those only interested in a debate among people who already agree on the major points and wish to shut out those who have fundamental differences with the overall concept.

Regarding an issue of this importance as many voices as possible should be heard. What's the rush QueEx,and others, the first cards won't be handed out until 2013?

Let everyone be heard.

I'm in no rush; hell, I fear the bill I may have to pay.

But I would never try to pass off chaos as debate. Let the voices, as many as possible, be heard and not drowned out by those who have made up their minds, either way, and who don't care that the truth ever gets out.

I stand on the side of intelligent debate and discussion, NOT on the side of chaos because I don't like whats being said, by the oher side.

QueEx
 
"IMO, what you are witnessing is the 'birther' of a 3rd party"


Maybe the rise of something similar to this...

I did not hear word of this until the next day...Seems to me that there were a bunch of ill-directed protestors that went there and did not show their disagreements in a stable manner...For it being a "racist-led" group going there, I not saying that it was...

...but there are some "race issues" around the area that have been hidden from the GP for a while...
 
"IMO, what you are witnessing is the 'birther' of a 3rd party"



Maybe the rise of something similar to this...

I did not hear word of this until the next day...Seems to me that there were a bunch of ill-directed protestors that went there and did not show their disagreements in a stable manner...For it being a "racist-led" group going there, I not saying that it was...

...but there are some "race issues" around the area that have been hidden from the GP for a while...

...but there are some "race issues" around the area that have been hidden from the GP for a while...

Not hidden, ignored. President Obama being of African ancestry forced the veil of racism off of this country. I still find it incredible. The overwhelming majority of Americans voted for an African American, yet the press chooses to highlight the isolated majority and give them a voice they would not have had. There were more protests against the Iraq war back in 2005 and 2006, yet I bet most people never new about that.
 
what the fuck is a "birther"? shit aint even a fuckin word, y'all sound retarded!

IMO, much of the anger isn't towards Obama, he's still a popular Prez, however, the ratings in Congress have been hovering around 25% for the past 2 yrs. just a thought!

In other News, Where the fuck is the 24 Trillion?
 
what the fuck is a "birther"? shit aint even a fuckin word, y'all sound retarded!

IMO, much of the anger isn't towards Obama, he's still a popular Prez, however, the ratings in Congress have been hovering around 25% for the past 2 yrs. just a thought!

In other News, Where the fuck is the 24 Trillion?

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however, the ratings in Congress have been hovering around 25% for the past 2 yrs. just a thought!

gallup.jpg

Compare the approval/disapproval ratings Republicans vs. Democrats and you can infer a trend in which each election the congress and senate becomes more and more Democrat. Yes, the people are pissed at congress, however it appears that they are pissed at the fact that they are governing too much from the right and not standing up to the corporate and business interests. As someone said on this board, the congress is more liberal than it was several years ago. Hopefully this trend will continue to the point where the obstructionistic, so called moderates and conservatives of both parties are purged for representatives that want actual real change, not just talk. This includes the presidency.

<iframe src="http://www.pollingreport.com/cong_rep.htm" width=800 height=1000></iframe>

<iframe src="http://www.pollingreport.com/cong_dem.htm" width=800 height=1000></iframe>

In other News, Where the fuck is the 24 Trillion?

You know where it is, in fucking Wall Street and in the pockets of multi national corporations.
 
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c'mon, legitimize the discussion, stop usin dumbazz, made-up words. Soundin like Dubya when he said his opponents "misunderestimated" him

By the way, Where's the 24 Trillion?
 
Notice that I haven't made a comment on this matter.

Reason being, I think that the American people do not care for this bill at all. If Obama's smart, he should find a crisis QUICK, so they can pass this bill under the table like Tax and Trade....
 
I didn't make this up? Reread the post.

alright man, for the record, I don't subscribe to that ignorance. When I said 3rd party, I meant people that don't trust Repubs or Dems, and its a lot of us

By the way, where's the 24 Trillion?
 
Notice that I haven't made a comment on this matter.

Reason being, I think that the American people do not care for this bill at all. If Obama's smart, he should find a crisis QUICK, so they can pass this bill under the table like Tax and Trade....

better speak now!
 
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