Obama: "Electricity Rates Would Necessarily Skyrocket." - Discuss!

[Lamarr]

33 seconds in, "Under my plan of a Cap N Trade system, Electricity Rates Would Necessarily Skyrocket.

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[Cruise]

He said that with a straight face!

Can you believe this guy?

I believe he could talk about raping the women and pillaging the towns and do it without a breaking sweat while looking you straight in the eye and expecting you to agree with him.

Obama is a real pro.

 

[VegasGuy]

"Would necessarily skyrocket???"

Not even a good try. Does that even sound like a properly constructed sentence to you? The brother doesn't construct fucked up sentences like your boy GWBush.

You know damn well this video has been altered. Either that or this is waaay the fuck out of context. Only reason why this clip was extracted to be floated around right wing blogs and shit.

Wingnuts don't let up. lol.

-VG

 

[BigUnc]

What's to discuss.

He said it for all to see and hear including that industry will pass on costs to the consumer.

The House has passed this , it goes to the Senate in the fall.


Whatever side you're on now is the time to mobilize and get in the game.


Whatcha gonna do?

 

[Lamarr]

"Would necessarily skyrocket???"

Not even a good try. Does that even sound like a properly constructed sentence to you? The brother doesn't construct fucked up sentences like your boy GWBush.

You know damn well this video has been altered.
-VG

Cluelessguy, Are you saying the prices of energy will decrease as a result of this legislation?

 

[Gunner]

What's to discuss.

He said it for all to see and hear including that industry will pass on costs to the consumer.

The House has passed this , it goes to the Senate in the fall.


Whatever side you're on now is the time to mobilize and get in the game.


Whatcha gonna do?

Great point!!! The rich don't pay add on taxes they pass them on to the consumer. In his process of sticking it to those mean business owners the poor who are already struggling to make ends meet will incur higher consumption taxes. Thanks Obama!!!!!!

 

[Gunner]

"Would necessarily skyrocket???"

Not even a good try. Does that even sound like a properly constructed sentence to you? The brother doesn't construct fucked up sentences like your boy GWBush.

You know damn well this video has been altered. Either that or this is waaay the fuck out of context. Only reason why this clip was extracted to be floated around right wing blogs and shit.

Wingnuts don't let up. lol.

-VG

With this response I'm reminded of the words of Albert Einstein " In this world two things are infinite ; stupid people and the universe, but I'm not to sure of the latter". You would defend a known child molester in bed with your kids. Damn man think!!! Let me put it in dumbo terms. You are the business owner, the federal government levies a tax on your industry. I need your product. A) are you going to eat the cost or B) will you pass the cost on to me Joe public who needs your goods and services!!!!!! Or C ) I'm a liberal why frickin think Obama will think for me.

 

[VegasGuy]

With this response I'm reminded of the words of Albert Einstein " In this world two things are infinite ; stupid people and the universe, but I'm not to sure of the latter". You would defend a known child molester in bed with your kids. Damn man think!!! Let me put it in dumbo terms. You are the business owner, the federal government levies a tax on your industry. I need your product. A) are you going to eat the cost or B) will you pass the cost on to me Joe public who needs your goods and services!!!!!! Or C ) I'm a liberal why frickin think Obama will think for me.

Let me put it in right wing terms,

...don't cry for me Argentina...

-VG

 

[Gunner]

Let me put it in right wing terms,

...don't cry for me Argentina...

-VG

This is a perfect example of liberalism. No substance just rhetoric. It's obvious you cant defend your position. BOOOOOO RUSH is chasing you!!! Go chase your tail.

 

[gonzo8402]

What's to discuss.
He said it for all to see and hear including that industry will pass on costs to the consumer.
The House has passed this , it goes to the Senate in the fall.
Whatever side you're on now is the time to mobilize and get in the game.
Whatcha gonna do?

Thank you, sir. It's already established that prices are going to go up. But it is also in the plan that costs will be subsidized for lower income homes. This clip--which doesn't even let you hear the question asked-- adds absolutely nothing to the conversation we're already having in this thread.

Great point!!! The rich don't pay add on taxes they pass them on to the consumer. In his process of sticking it to those mean business owners the poor who are already struggling to make ends meet will incur higher consumption taxes. Thanks Obama!!!!!!

On Cap and Trade I don't think it's so much about sticking it to the rich as it is about reducing emissions.

 

[actinanass]

the muthafucka just said "you electric bill is about to be high than a bitch", and people are defending him.

Yet, conservatives are the sheep?

Ya'll niggas crack me up!!!

 

[Lamarr]

the muthafucka just said "you electric bill is about to be high than a bitch", and people are defending him.

basically

I was thinkin to myself yesterday, "I thought my bill already skyrocketed"

 

[gonzo8402]

the muthafucka just said "you electric bill is about to be high than a bitch", and people are defending him.

Yet, conservatives are the sheep?

Ya'll ------ crack me up!!!

basically

I was thinkin to myself yesterday, "I thought my bill already skyrocketed"

What does "sky-rocket" mean to you? It's likely that you, and everyone in here is going to have a different number in their heads. But what is the real number?

 

[VegasGuy]

What does "sky-rocket" mean to you? It's likely that you, and everyone in here is going to have a different number in their heads. But what is the real number?

You already know. They pretend that to get this big ass economy back on track could be done without any pain at all.

-VG

 

[actinanass]

What does "sky-rocket" mean to you? It's likely that you, and everyone in here is going to have a different number in their heads. But what is the real number?

You already know. They pretend that to get this big ass economy back on track could be done without any pain at all.

-VG

let me make this clear....

YOUR ELECTRIC BILL IS GOING TO GO UP FOR BASICALLY NO REASON AT ALL.

Can you understand that? Do you know that we have cheap alternatives instead of this?



Oh yea, didn't yall bitch about gas going up? Didn't ya'll blame Bush, and the oil companies for that?

Talking about hypocritical!!!

 

[gonzo8402]

let me make this clear....

YOUR ELECTRIC BILL IS GOING TO GO UP FOR BASICALLY NO REASON AT ALL.

Can you understand that? Do you know that we have cheap alternatives instead of this?

Keep on being the sheep you claim I am.

Oh yea, didn't yall bitch about gas going up? Didn't ya'll blame Bush, and the oil companies for that?

Talking about hypocritical!!!

Yes, let's be clear.

My electricity bill may possibly go up in an effort to reduce emissions and better coexist with the environment.

The CBO estimate says that the electricity bill of the poorest among us will actually go down by $40. For the richest among us it'll go up by $20 a month.

What are some good alternatives to this?

Yes, many people were complaining about gas prices last year. But that was much worse because even those who could not afford to, had to pay the much higher prices. This bill apparently covers that.

 

[Lamarr]

Yes, many people were complaining about gas prices last year. But that was much worse because even those who could not afford to, had to pay the much higher prices. This bill apparently covers that.

you can't be serious dawg. The economy has lost 3-4 million jobs since those high gas prices. We simply can't afford any new taxes

 

[twiggy]

Americans think with their money...
when gas prices were up...
----- drove less or at least had a directed plan of attack for traveling...
rides to the mall were at least $10 cuz 5 wouldn't cut it...
all this video madde me do or think is that I need to get my house solar powered...
reducing my dependency on electricity from the powerplants...

 

[QueEx]

3A,

Warnings don't seem to mean much to you.

You need to (a) fix that violation above or (b) hurry up and answer gonzo. Sabe ?



QueEx

 

[gonzo8402]

you can't be serious dawg. The economy has lost 3-4 million jobs since those high gas prices. We simply can't afford any new taxes

85% of the allowances are going to be given away. How much of a tax is this?

 

[Lamarr]

Clueless Guy, this whole Cap & Trade issue is based upon the model provided by Enron!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://cei.org/gencon/019,02898.cfm

Even after President Bush decided to withdraw the U.S. from the Kyoto treaty, Enron continued to push for a domestic regulatory scheme known as cap-and-trade, whereby the government would set a cap on the total amount of carbon dioxide emissions allowed in the U.S.

It would then distribute permits or allowances to companies affected by the cap giving them the right to emit a certain amount of carbon dioxide. Those allowances could then be traded in the open market.

Enron executives believed that a cap-and-trade program would put them in a position to dominate the U.S. energy market. Electric utilities, required to reduce emissions of carbon dioxide, would be forced to switch from coal to natural gas as the only practical alternative to electricity production. As a leading trader of natural gas, Enron would be the recipient of a huge financial windfall.

Moreover, Enron is already a major trader of carbon dioxide emissions throughout the world, making it similarly positioned to take a fee with each and every ton of carbon dioxide traded within the United States.

 

[gonzo8402]

I don't know who you're addressing with that post, Lamar, but I'll go ahead and jump in...

1. Enron doesn't exist anymore.

2. No matter what is passed, someone is going to profit. Whether it's a battery maker for electric cars or whatever else.

So what's your point?

 

[actinanass]

Yes, let's be clear.

My electricity bill may possibly go up in an effort to reduce emissions and better coexist with the environment.

The CBO estimate says that the electricity bill of the poorest among us will actually go down by $40. For the richest among us it'll go up by $20 a month.

What are some good alternatives to this?

Yes, many people were complaining about gas prices last year. But that was much worse because even those who could not afford to, had to pay the much higher prices. This bill apparently covers that.

1. I take it that you believe this bullshit. Ok, fair enough, when EVERYONE'S electricity goes up, don't come in here, and complain.

The good alternatives are...lets see.....DRILL FOR MORE OIL....PROMOTE CLEAN COAL....PROMOTE OFF SHORE WIND POWER....oh how about some NUCLEAR ENERGY AS WELL...NATURAL GAS...However, we know people will end up getting rich. Meaning, it will always be oppose by your neighborhood liberal. God forbid anyone getting rich without an Ivy league education....

 

[gonzo8402]

1. I take it that you believe this bullshit. Ok, fair enough, when EVERYONE'S electricity goes up, don't come in here, and complain.

The good alternatives are...lets see.....DRILL FOR MORE OIL....PROMOTE CLEAN COAL....PROMOTE OFF SHORE WIND POWER....oh how about some NUCLEAR ENERGY AS WELL...NATURAL GAS...However, we know people will end up getting rich. Meaning, it will always be oppose by your neighborhood liberal. God forbid anyone getting rich without an Ivy league education....

In your suggestions I think you're forgetting the point. It's not so much to reduce cost or increase energy independence. It's particularly designed to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Oil, coal, nuclear, I think, don't help reduce it.

And I already said earlier, no matter what, someone is going to get rich from whatever is passed. So don't come to me with that because that's not what this discussion is about.

 

[Cruise]

Yes, let's be clear.

My electricity bill may possibly go up in an effort to reduce emissions and better coexist with the environment.

The CBO estimate says that the electricity bill of the poorest among us will actually go down by $40. For the richest among us it'll go up by $20 a month.

What are some good alternatives to this?

Yes, many people were complaining about gas prices last year. But that was much worse because even those who could not afford to, had to pay the much higher prices. This bill apparently covers that.

Why do you believe anything coming out the government?

The government will say anything to get what it's want. You are basically talking about believing politicians and bureaucrats. You may as well just say you believe a con man.

Iraq? War for Freedom, or Terrorism, or Saddam, or 9/11, or Al-Qaeda.
Patriot Act? Security. Terrorism. Safety. Protection.
Drug Benefit? Health. Affordability. Convenience. Better Performance.
Banker Bailout? Economic collapse. Financial chaos. Unemployment.

Whenever government passes a new law, it's sole goal is to take power from us and give it to the politicians, bureaucrats, and special interests.

3A,

Warnings don't seem to mean much to you.

You need to (a) fix that violation above or (b) hurry up and answer gonzo. Sabe ?



QueEx

Why don't you just ban him?

It's bad enough every other post on the main board has racial slurs against non-white people.

 

[actinanass]

Why do you believe anything coming out the government?

The government will say anything to get what it's want. You are basically talking about believing politicians and bureaucrats. You may as well just say you believe a con man.

Iraq? War for Freedom, or Terrorism, or Saddam, or 9/11, or Al-Qaeda.
Patriot Act? Security. Terrorism. Safety. Protection.
Drug Benefit? Health. Affordability. Convenience. Better Performance.
Banker Bailout? Economic collapse. Financial chaos. Unemployment.

Whenever government passes a new law, it's sole goal is to take power from us and give it to the politicians, bureaucrats, and special interests.



Why don't you just ban him?

It's bad enough every other post on the main board has racial slurs against non-white people.

I didn't know the term "sheep" was considered an insult. I'm only using the same terms some have been used on me.

I guess I can take insults better than most.

So, que, whenever someone calls me a sheep its ok on here, but when I retaliate its a problem? I see consistency will be an issue up on here.

 

[actinanass]

In your suggestions I think you're forgetting the point. It's not so much to reduce cost or increase energy independence. It's particularly designed to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Oil, coal, nuclear, I think, don't help reduce it.

And I already said earlier, no matter what, someone is going to get rich from whatever is passed. So don't come to me with that because that's not what this discussion is about.

I got the point about global warming, but how do you know that we are the cause of it. So, why make legislation off science that has so many variables? Why limit our economy on science that hasn't been proven to be fact?

BTW, I wasn't referring to you not wanting people to get rich. I was referring to the whole liberal machine that's backing this crock.

 

[Lamarr]

85% of the allowances are going to be given away. How much of a tax is this?

exactly, the allowances will be traded, leveraged and speculated upon so there is no guestimating how much of a tax it will be, not to mention all the lost jobs this will lead to. Natural gas / energy traders will love it because it corners the market. Do you remember all those "rolling" blackouts in Cali around 2000-01?

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/enron-caused-california-blackouts-traders-say?pagenumber=1

Tis system has some unintended consequences

 

[VegasGuy]

let me make this clear....

YOUR ELECTRIC BILL IS GOING TO GO UP FOR BASICALLY NO REASON AT ALL.

Can you understand that? Do you know that we have cheap alternatives instead of this?



Oh yea, didn't yall bitch about gas going up? Didn't ya'll blame Bush, and the oil companies for that?

Talking about hypocritical!!!

Not for no reason at all. For a very obvious reason we'll end up having to foot this increase.

It's going to go up, as everything else is because of republican policies that allowed wall street and the banks to sell off the nations future with bullshit mortgages and to finance a war in Iraq we DID NOT NEED TO FIGHT!

We have to now spend out the ass to rebuild that nation [IRAQ in case you forgot what I'm talking about already]and no one of you want to discuss that.

How many times did bush show up with his tin cup in hand asking for taxpayers to pony up MEGA BILLIONS at a time, because of some bullshit they started with Iraq. Even down to the deck of playing cards showing all those Iraqi leaders that had to be "captured and or killed" for this bullshit.

All this noise you are making now about cap and trade is just that. Noise. You cannot excuse 8 years of big ass bundles of cash, financed largely by Chinese loans as minor, compared to this cap and trade issue.

Then back at Wingnut Central you got Senator Boner talking about, "Obama got the stimulus money where are the jobs?"

Fuck that bitch, you got other questions to answer. You got bigger billions and WHERE THE FUCK IS THE WMD??? Son of a bitch.

Seems the longer foxnews remains on the air the more senile and outrageous wingnuts become.

-VG

 

[actinanass]

Not for no reason at all. For a very obvious reason we'll end up having to foot this increase.

It's going to go up, as everything else is because of republican policies that allowed wall street and the banks to sell off the nations future with bullshit mortgages and to finance a war in Iraq we DID NOT NEED TO FIGHT!

We have to now spend out the ass to rebuild that nation [IRAQ in case you forgot what I'm talking about already]and no one of you want to discuss that.

How many times did bush show up with his tin cup in hand asking for taxpayers to pony up MEGA BILLIONS at a time, because of some bullshit they started with Iraq. Even down to the deck of playing cards showing all those Iraqi leaders that had to be "captured and or killed" for this bullshit.

All this noise you are making now about cap and trade is just that. Noise. You cannot excuse 8 years of big ass bundles of cash, financed largely by Chinese loans as minor, compared to this cap and trade issue.

Then back at Wingnut Central you got Senator Boner talking about, "Obama got the stimulus money where are the jobs?"

Fuck that bitch, you got other questions to answer. You got bigger billions and WHERE THE FUCK IS THE WMD??? Son of a bitch.

Seems the longer foxnews remains on the air the more senile and outrageous wingnuts become.

-VG

you stuck on Iraq, and Iraq hasn't been a headliner since the election.

Just in case you don't know, the issue is about ENERGY, not Iraq.

What are we doing to do about ENERGY?

The democratic solution is to RAISE the prices essentially.

The republican solution is to find more PRODUCTIVE ways of energy so the prices will stay either the same, or even get lower.

Democrats= raising electric bill

Republicans= keeping, or lowering your electric bill.

Tell me which one makes more sense...

BTW, why should I have to pay for something I don't believe in *man made global warming*?

 

[Willyum]

Damn, how many times during the campaign did I hear Obama say 'It won't be cheap, easy or fast... but it must be done for our energy independence'.

What did all of ya'll forget he said that numerous, numerous times?

I voted for Obama understanding it would be a 'different' path. More efficient, but not necessarily cheaper path. He ran on 'being practical' not being cheap.

 

[gonzo8402]

Why do you believe anything coming out the government?

The government will say anything to get what it's want. You are basically talking about believing politicians and bureaucrats. You may as well just say you believe a con man.

Iraq? War for Freedom, or Terrorism, or Saddam, or 9/11, or Al-Qaeda.
Patriot Act? Security. Terrorism. Safety. Protection.
Drug Benefit? Health. Affordability. Convenience. Better Performance.
Banker Bailout? Economic collapse. Financial chaos. Unemployment.

Whenever government passes a new law, it's sole goal is to take power from us and give it to the politicians, bureaucrats, and special interests.

Point taken. My point was to bring sources into the discussion. I'm not saying what I believe, but I am trying to put figures to the discussion of higher costs we're having in here.

I got the point about global warming, but how do you know that we are the cause of it. So, why make legislation off science that has so many variables? Why limit our economy on science that hasn't been proven to be fact?

BTW, I wasn't referring to you not wanting people to get rich. I was referring to the whole liberal machine that's backing this crock.

Greenhouse gases cause the Earth to retain heat. If we can emit less gasses, we'll be doing the planet a service. I don't know enough about all of the variables in the term "global warming" to comment further. But I do know that greenhouses retain heat, and we emit greenhouse gases.

exactly, the allowances will be traded, leveraged and speculated upon so there is no guestimating how much of a tax it will be, not to mention all the lost jobs this will lead to. Natural gas / energy traders will love it because it corners the market. Do you remember all those "rolling" blackouts in Cali around 2000-01?

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/enron-caused-california-blackouts-traders-say?pagenumber=1

Tis system has some unintended consequences

Why lost jobs? Are people all of a sudden going to opt not to have electricity? The demand is going to be there regardless. But, even if they do cut certain jobs, they still have to hire people to make the changes that will reduce emissions.

Also, the allowances are traded privately by the companies. If they want to drive their own costs up by speculating that's on them. Eventually, once those costs get out of control, they'll force the gov't to step in.

you stuck on Iraq, and Iraq hasn't been a headliner since the election.

Just in case you don't know, the issue is about ENERGY, not Iraq.

What are we doing to do about ENERGY?

The democratic solution is to RAISE the prices essentially.

The republican solution is to find more PRODUCTIVE ways of energy so the prices will stay either the same, or even get lower.

Democrats= raising electric bill

Republicans= keeping, or lowering your electric bill.

Tell me which one makes more sense...

BTW, why should I have to pay for something I don't believe in *man made global warming*?

Once again, the point of the bill isn't energy independence. There is other legislation for that. This particular thread is more about reducing greenhouse gases.

Where are the Republican suggestions for that?

 

[actinanass]

Point taken. My point was to bring sources into the discussion. I'm not saying what I believe, but I am trying to put figures to the discussion of higher costs we're having in here.



Greenhouse gases cause the Earth to retain heat. If we can emit less gasses, we'll be doing the planet a service. I don't know enough about all of the variables in the term "global warming" to comment further. But I do know that greenhouses retain heat, and we emit greenhouse gases.



Why lost jobs? Are people all of a sudden going to opt not to have electricity? The demand is going to be there regardless. But, even if they do cut certain jobs, they still have to hire people to make the changes that will reduce emissions.

Also, the allowances are traded privately by the companies. If they want to drive their own costs up by speculating that's on them. Eventually, once those costs get out of control, they'll force the gov't to step in.



Once again, the point of the bill isn't energy independence. There is other legislation for that. This particular thread is more about reducing greenhouse gases.

Where are the Republican suggestions for that?

The republican suggestion is to further investigate the "man made global warming" theory before we make such legislation.

 

[gonzo8402]

The republican suggestion is to further investigate the "man made global warming" theory before we make such legislation.

didn't see any mention of it on their site...

 

[Lamarr]

Why lost jobs?

The jobs we will lose when the remainder of our industry decides to offshore their operations in an attempt to avoid this "Cap N Tax" hear that? whats left of our industrial base will leave

Also, the allowances are traded privately by the companies. If they want to drive their own costs up by speculating that's on them. Eventually, once those costs get out of control, they'll force the gov't to step in.

you got too much trust in these clowns that don't even read the legislation they pass!

Where are the Republican suggestions for that?

F*ck a Republican suggestion, How about an American suggestion?

Lets do like the Chinese in an attempt to compete on the global stage!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6481997.ece

Officials from Beijing told a UN conference in Bonn yesterday that China would increase its emissions to develop its economy rather than sign up to mandatory cuts.

Let this bill be known as the Waxman / Markey / Madoff Bill