Obama: "Electricity Rates Would Necessarily Skyrocket." - Discuss!

actinanass said:
so you didn't say that Bush cheated?
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in 2000?

I disagreed with the decision at the time, but he won. And upon assuming office we ALL gave him a chance. 9/11 happened and we decided to give him another chance. He didn't do a very good job, I must say.

So, when I say "we all gave him a chance", I don't necessarily mean with our vote. I mean with our docility.
 
gonzo8402 said:
in 2000?

I disagreed with the decision at the time, but he won. And upon assuming office we ALL gave him a chance. 9/11 happened and we decided to give him another chance. He didn't do a very good job, I must say.

So, when I say "we all gave him a chance", I don't necessarily mean with our vote. I mean with our docility.
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ok what did he fail on in your opinion?
 
actinanass said:
ok what did he fail on in your opinion?
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I knew you were going to ask that. I'll just name a few things off the top of my head and leave it there. If you want to talk more we can create a different thread.

He made us one of the the least popular countries in the world politically (frustrating the populous to the point where America actually elected a Black man)

He lied about WMDs leading us into a bullshit war (and lost lives)

He put us in the biggest debt we'd ever had

He made refugees of our own citizens

etc.


Dude was disappointing to say the least.
 
Cruise said:
I was going to post this, but this

"give him a chance"

stuff speaks to a naivete that is impervious to reason.

You get a chance or credit once you've proven yourself and delivered.

If you've never delivered, why give someone credit?

Politicians are here to screw you over. Why would you give them a chance to do that?
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Well, that's the republic we live in. what political system do you recommend?

r3d DaWn said:
the plan would increase rates to goofy highs for EVERYONE. While it is a great idea to move towards a way of helping the enviorment, people are having a hard time as it is out there, and now, pushing something that would make electricity rates boom upwards, cause you know they will pass every cent to us, will only hurt, not help. If you look up info on this, all parties agree, this will put a huge burden on everyone, those that have money won't care as much, those just making it, imagine what they will go through?
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the plan will increase rates, but how much? the estimates vary greatly. and the gov't says they'll subsidize "those just making it"
 
actinanass said:
Sooooooooooo your point?

Have it ACUR to you that maybe, just maybe I don't want none of that crap? Maybe I like my money going to....ahhhhh....lets say STUFF I WANT?
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Do that. My point is I've gotten on board with the program. The average person ie yourself waits until the last minute to change. Your typical slow and lazy when it comes to changing your ways. You will go green in some small way before its all over you won't have a choice. You cannot afford to keep doing ie wasting energy, not recycling etc etc forever. You might wake up 40 years from now and wonder what happen to the world You live in. You can't just not take care of the planet and expect everything to be cool.

I'm doing my part to help the planet. I know at the end of the day I've done my share.
 
gonzo8402 said:
Well, that's the republic we live in. what political system do you recommend?
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It would be nice if we lived in some kind of a liberal, constitutional republic, where the politicians felt accountable to the voters. And, federal government would only serve common defense, diplomacy, and foreign trade.

But, that wouldn't be the United States of America.

So, instead, all politicians are guilty until they prove themselves innocent.

Otherwise, you are just asking to get f***ed over by them.
 
higher electricity rates means higher prices of good & services as companies across the board pass the buck to the consumer. higher prices means people consume less...that's less tax revenue flowing. this is gonna have a ripple effect thru the economy as we watch it do the moonwalk

on the brightside, hopefully this will lead to less consumption of electricity so we can all breath a little easier
 
Acur said:
Do that. My point is I've gotten on board with the program. The average person ie yourself waits until the last minute to change. Your typical slow and lazy when it comes to changing your ways. You will go green in some small way before its all over you won't have a choice. You cannot afford to keep doing ie wasting energy, not recycling etc etc forever. You might wake up 40 years from now and wonder what happen to the world You live in. You can't just not take care of the planet and expect everything to be cool.

I'm doing my part to help the planet. I know at the end of the day I've done my share.
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first of all, I can afford to live my life.

Secondly, its cool that you want to do things to save the world. However, until I see solid evidence that we are destroying the world, I'm not buying it. At the end, its all about money anyway...

BTW, I do recycle...
 
Acur said:
You will go green in some small way before its all over you won't have a choice. I'm doing my part to help the planet. I know at the end of the day I've done my share.
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Seriously, Are U in California?

See, this is an example of "Un-American". Your mentality does not promote freedom. You're trying to impose your views on those of us who are not convinced of the science (with very good reason). There are over 30,000 scientists saying global warming is a farce. Read it here
 
Lamarr said:
There are over 30,000 scientists saying global warming is a farce. Read it here
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How can you tell whether those who are listed on that webpage as signatories:

  • Are actually scientist; ???

  • Actually have expertise in environmental matters relevant to warming ???; and

  • Have actually done any scientific work on the causes of warming ???

I find the debate over warming interesting and it seems to me that there is a split in opinion among credible scientist over (1) whether there is global warming; and (2) if there is, whats causing it. But my quick scan of that webpage didn't leave me with opinion that it has much credibility, on the subject.

:(

QueEx
 
QueEx said:
How can you tell whether those who are listed on that webpage as signatories:

  • Are actually scientist; ???

  • Actually have expertise in environmental matters relevant to warming ???; and

  • Have actually done any scientific work on the causes of warming ???

I find the debate over warming interesting and it seems to me that there is a split in opinion among credible scientist over (1) whether there is global warming; and (2) if there is, whats causing it. But my quick scan of that webpage didn't leave me with opinion that it has much credibility, on the subject.

QueEx
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Simple Question, What information have you seen to refute what these scientists are stating?

In response to your quote,
Qualifications of Signers

Signatories are approved for inclusion in the Petition Project list if they have obtained formal educational degrees at the level of Bachelor of Science or higher in appropriate scientific fields. The petition has been circulated only in the United States.

The current list of petition signers includes 9,029 PhD; 7,153 MS; 2,585 MD and DVM; and 12,711 BS or equivalent academic degrees. Most of the MD and DVM signers also have underlying degrees in basic science.

All of the listed signers have formal educations in fields of specialization that suitably qualify them to evaluate the research data related to the petition statement. Many of the signers currently work in climatological, meteorological, atmospheric, environmental, geophysical, astronomical, and biological fields directly involved in the climate change controversy.

The Petition Project classifies petition signers on the basis of their formal academic training, as summarized below. Scientists often pursue specialized fields of endeavor that are different from their formal education, but their underlying training can be applied to any scientific field in which they become interested.

Outlined below are the numbers of Petition Project signatories, subdivided by educational specialties. These have been combined, as indicated, into seven categories.

read the rest
 
As I said, I find the debate interesting and I am looking for credible information to help my understanding and knowledge of the subject. I read the above and "the rest" and honestly I can't see where one (1) of the signatories has actually done any work in the subject area and many, many thousands of them appear not to have any expertise in the area at all. :confused:

QueEx
 
Now that I have had a better look at this Cap and Trade bill. As it is put together, it could cause another Enron like disaster. Creating a false market in energy commodities they way Enron created a market in trading electric futures.:smh:
 
thoughtone said:
Now that I have had a better look at this Cap and Trade bill. As it is put together, it could cause another Enron like disaster. Creating a false market in energy commodities they way Enron created a market in trading electric futures.:smh:
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:D Thanx, see my post 60. Another scheme to transfer the wealth from the people who need it most

Don't forget, they added 300 pages to the bill 5 hours before the vote!
 
thoughtone said:
Now that I have had a better look at this Cap and Trade bill. As it is put together, it could cause another Enron like disaster. Creating a false market in energy commodities they way Enron created a market in trading electric futures.:smh:
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Blythe Masters & JP Morgan are planning to capitalize big-time on this global warming nonsense

BB_Bloomberg_Markets_Jan10_01.jpg
 
Lamarr said:
Blythe Masters & JP Morgan are planning to capitalize big-time on this global warming nonsense
BB_Bloomberg_Markets_Jan10_01.jpg
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Wait, I haven't paid much attention to this thread but are we debating climate change now? Really? With each year setting a new record? Damn. That's stubborn.
I know there can be a conversation over the cause but this isn't any debate on the actual climate changing.
 
Upgrade Dave said:
Wait, I haven't paid much attention to this thread but are we debating climate change now? Really? With each year setting a new record? Damn. That's stubborn.
I know there can be a conversation over the cause but this isn't any debate on the actual climate changing.
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Each year setting a new record for what ?
 
Coal Company Closes Eight Mines; Cites Obama’s “Regulatory Regime”

Alpha Natural Resources announced September 18 it will be closing eight coal mines while laying off about 1,200 workers.

“Under my cap and trade plan electricity rates will necessarily skyrocket.” “If somebody wants to build a coal plant, they can — it’s just that it will bankrupt them, because they are going to be charged a huge sum for all that greenhouse gas that’s being emitted"
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And he didn't even need cap & trade to do it. Mission accomplished.
 
Lamarr said:
Coal Company Closes Eight Mines; Cites Obama’s “Regulatory Regime”

Alpha Natural Resources announced September 18 it will be closing eight coal mines while laying off about 1,200 workers.



And he didn't even need cap & trade to do it. Mission accomplished.
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Did I miss that part of the article that examined the the merits of Big Coal's complaints, or did the article omit that discussion ??? If the former is the case, what exactly in the article did you base your mission accomplished conclusion ??? Please quote the part(s) upon which you relied.

Thanking you in advance.
 
QueEx said:
Did I miss that part of the article that examined the the merits of Big Coal's complaints, or did the article omit that discussion ??? If the former is the case, what exactly in the article did you base your mission accomplished conclusion ??? Please quote the part(s) upon which you relied.

Thanking you in advance.
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"Mission Accomplished" is just my opinion bruh. His mission is obviously, to de-industrialize the nation with his energy policy. And QueEx, I don't care about the merits of the author of the article; lets just look at the facts that:

(1) 8 mines got closed

(2) those middle-class jobs will never return

(3) these displaced workers will likely, go on to become greeters at the local China-Mart or some other meaningless position

(4) the de-industrialization will continue until these policies are reversed.

(5) this is what Pres. Obama said
So, if somebody wants to build a coal plant, they can — it’s just that it will bankrupt them, because they are going to be charged a huge sum for all that greenhouse gas that’s being emitted.
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The coal-based economics of Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Kentucky, Ohio, and other states will be the first to feel this new policy.
 
Lamarr said:
"Mission Accomplished" is just my opinion bruh. His mission is obviously, to de-industrialize the nation with his energy policy. And QueEx, I don't care about the merits of the author of the article; lets just look at the facts that:

(1) 8 mines got closed

(2) those middle-class jobs will never return

(3) these displaced workers will likely, go on to become greeters at the local China-Mart or some other meaningless position

(4) the de-industrialization will continue until these policies are reversed.

(5) this is what Pres. Obama said

The coal-based economics of Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Kentucky, Ohio, and other states will be the first to feel this new policy.
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Well I'm sorry to hear that you don't give a damn about the policies, practices, regulations or whatever they may be called that Big Coal says is the problem, but some of us do. Big Coal might have a legitmate complaint. If the article didn't tell us, how the fuck are we to know??? But more to the point, how am I to judge whether those closures you noted are legitmate or Big Coal just closing what it believes to be unprofitable, labor-contentious, etc., plants ???
 
Lamarr said:
"Mission Accomplished" is just my opinion bruh. His mission is obviously, to de-industrialize the nation with his energy policy. And QueEx, I don't care about the merits of the author of the article; lets just look at the facts that:

(1) 8 mines got closed

(2) those middle-class jobs will never return

(3) these displaced workers will likely, go on to become greeters at the local China-Mart or some other meaningless position

(4) the de-industrialization will continue until these policies are reversed.

(5) this is what Pres. Obama said

The coal-based economics of Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Kentucky, Ohio, and other states will be the first to feel this new policy.
Click to expand...

Investigation finds no evidence Holder knew of 'Fast and Furious' gun-running sting


I DEMAND AN APOLOGY!
 
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