More battered women should probably do that. It's surprising so few do.
Men murder women that way daily all over the world. What's the point?
Why do women feel that they shouldn't be hit?
- Thread starter Machete
- Start date
More battered women should probably do that. It's surprising so few do.
Men murder women that way daily all over the world. What's the point?
No, you're just providing every rationale possible.
But you understand it.
Why is this even a discussion? Only ONE person was beaten in this case. All of these arguments and excuses prove that you and others are "crying" about it.
When all else fails ...
No. You missed my point for saying that.
People say it's a size issue only.
So I controlled for every variable except size.
If it were a size issue only your answer would be the same.
I feel the same about women who get hit.
After the first time and you stay....
Sorry bout your damn luck.
Right?
No, you're just providing every rationale possible.
But you understand it.
Why is this even a discussion? Only ONE person was beaten in this case. All of these arguments and excuses prove that you and others are "crying" about it.
The question was...
Why do women feel that they shouldn't be hit?
You are using the Rhianna case as a crutch.
You got vivid pictures of her face being beat up. I don't think that was a vicious 20 minute attack. I think that was a few VERY vicious punches that got out of hand. She is a woman for god sake. It wouldn't take her getting hit 45 times to look like that.
He was wrong for what he did but you act like he stomped her out like Kain did to ol' boy in Menace To Society or some shit.
They got a website and url, huh...?
http://www.safe4all.org/essays/2page.html
* How many know that the same research which is used to say that a woman is severely assaulted by her husband/boyfriend every 15 second in this country, also indicated that a man is severely assaulted by his wife/girlfriend every 14.6 seconds.
(Straus, M. A., 1977)
* How many know that although most Archival research (data which comes from police arrest reports, hospital records, judicial reports, and domestic violence shelters usually set up to help female victims) indicates only a small percentage of male victims of domestic violence, that the vast majority of scientific Survey research continues to indicate that husbands and wives are assaulting each other at nearly the same rate, a range from 35 to 50 percent male victims.
(Straus, M. A., 1977; Steinmetz, 1978; Brutz & Ingoldby 1981; Makepeace 1981; Makepeace 1983; Elliot, D. S. et al., 1985; Straus, M. A., & Gelles, R., 1986; Meredith et al. 1986; Szinovacz, 1987; Barling et al., 1987; Mason & Blankenship, 1987; O’Leary & Arias, 1988; Malcolm, G., 1994; Dunn, K., 1994; Coochey, J., 1995; Carrado et al., 1996)
* How many know that when Feminist groups and domestic violence workers are exposed to these facts they will immediately minimize the importance of these studies by raising the argument that even if women do assault their partner it is usually for reason of self-defense, yet they produce no scientific research to support this claim other than some case studies or anecdotal information. Although limited, scientific research data suggests that only 10-20% of women assault their male partners for reasons of self-defense. Domestic violence shelters are likely to see these women and are less likely to see the 80-90% of women who assault their husbands/boyfriends for reasons other than self-defense. Interestingly, about 30% of the men said they assaulted their partner in self-defense.
(Carrado, et al., 1996; Sommer, 1992)
* How many know that survey research suggest that women who are assaulted are 9 times more likely to report to police and 5 times more likely to tell a friend/relative than men who are assaulted by their wives. (Stets, J. & Straus, M. A., 1990) In general only about 8-10% of women who are assaulted and 1-2% of men who are assaulted report the assault to an agency/authority. (Fontes, 1998) This is likely why archival data indicates more female victims.
* How many know that most assaults between partners are mutual 48.6%, men only 25.5%, and women only 25.9%. Or that women are more likely to stick the first blow against their intimate partner, as reported by women themselves. (Straus, 1997) One study showed that 83% of the couples studies engaged in "bi-directional or mutual physical aggression." (Jennifer Langhinrich-Rohling et al., 1996).
* How many know that 60% of women who are arrested for domestic violence against their husbands have previous criminal records.
(Jurik, N. C., 1989; Jurik, N. C., & Gregware, P., 1989)
* How many know that although women are seven times more likely to report they needed to see a doctor as a result of being assaulted by their husband (Gelles, 1996), one does not know if they are seven times more likely to actually be injured by their husbands than husbands are by their wives. Only 3% of the women reported they needed to see a doctor and only 0.4% of the men reported they need to see a doctor as a result of being assaulted. (Straus, M. A., 1997) Women are nearly twice as like to use an object when she assaults a male partner which can equalize the level of injury he receives. (Straus & Gelles, 1986)
* How many know that the same research which is used to say that a woman is severely assaulted by her husband/boyfriend every 15 second in this country, also indicated that a man is severely assaulted by his wife/girlfriend every 14.6 seconds.
(Straus, M. A., 1977)
* How many know that although most Archival research (data which comes from police arrest reports, hospital records, judicial reports, and domestic violence shelters usually set up to help female victims) indicates only a small percentage of male victims of domestic violence, that the vast majority of scientific Survey research continues to indicate that husbands and wives are assaulting each other at nearly the same rate, a range from 35 to 50 percent male victims.
(Straus, M. A., 1977; Steinmetz, 1978; Brutz & Ingoldby 1981; Makepeace 1981; Makepeace 1983; Elliot, D. S. et al., 1985; Straus, M. A., & Gelles, R., 1986; Meredith et al. 1986; Szinovacz, 1987; Barling et al., 1987; Mason & Blankenship, 1987; O’Leary & Arias, 1988; Malcolm, G., 1994; Dunn, K., 1994; Coochey, J., 1995; Carrado et al., 1996)
* How many know that when Feminist groups and domestic violence workers are exposed to these facts they will immediately minimize the importance of these studies by raising the argument that even if women do assault their partner it is usually for reason of self-defense, yet they produce no scientific research to support this claim other than some case studies or anecdotal information. Although limited, scientific research data suggests that only 10-20% of women assault their male partners for reasons of self-defense. Domestic violence shelters are likely to see these women and are less likely to see the 80-90% of women who assault their husbands/boyfriends for reasons other than self-defense. Interestingly, about 30% of the men said they assaulted their partner in self-defense.
(Carrado, et al., 1996; Sommer, 1992)
* How many know that survey research suggest that women who are assaulted are 9 times more likely to report to police and 5 times more likely to tell a friend/relative than men who are assaulted by their wives. (Stets, J. & Straus, M. A., 1990) In general only about 8-10% of women who are assaulted and 1-2% of men who are assaulted report the assault to an agency/authority. (Fontes, 1998) This is likely why archival data indicates more female victims.
* How many know that most assaults between partners are mutual 48.6%, men only 25.5%, and women only 25.9%. Or that women are more likely to stick the first blow against their intimate partner, as reported by women themselves. (Straus, 1997) One study showed that 83% of the couples studies engaged in "bi-directional or mutual physical aggression." (Jennifer Langhinrich-Rohling et al., 1996).
* How many know that 60% of women who are arrested for domestic violence against their husbands have previous criminal records.
(Jurik, N. C., 1989; Jurik, N. C., & Gregware, P., 1989)
* How many know that although women are seven times more likely to report they needed to see a doctor as a result of being assaulted by their husband (Gelles, 1996), one does not know if they are seven times more likely to actually be injured by their husbands than husbands are by their wives. Only 3% of the women reported they needed to see a doctor and only 0.4% of the men reported they need to see a doctor as a result of being assaulted. (Straus, M. A., 1997) Women are nearly twice as like to use an object when she assaults a male partner which can equalize the level of injury he receives. (Straus & Gelles, 1986)
That's the only reason this is even being discussed.
Now you're rationalizing again. Who cares about the duration of the attack. Any ONE punch (from a sturdy 6'1" teenager) or slightly longer chokehold could've killed her. And it's not about the photo, it's about the police and medical reports.
So now it does matter that she's a women? Which is it?
So there are degrees of violent domestic abuse? If she wasn't killed or maimed then it wasn't really all that bad? Somehow I think you'd still be making excuses if she had ended up in a morgue. This took place in a residential area. Dude ran away (from his near-unconsciousness victim, who had visible trauma), like a typical "macho" fraud (similar to those in this thread).
(Rodney King wasn't killed, or even all that badly hurt. Did that make his beatdown any less serious?)
Who's talking about beating them to death? Did I say that? Can you quote me please? Can you get your head out your ass? We aren't talking about Rihanna.
Are you really comparing a child with a fully grown woman with a working brain? That's a diss to women I guess. You're equating women with children that lack the mental processes of adults. I feel sorry for your mother.
Now YOU are rationalizing. You are the one who keeps bringing up the "viciousness" of the attack. I just gave you a counterattack so to speak to that.
If he slapped her once and then lost his cool and hit her as hard as he could in the face she could have sustained the same injuries. Obviously she was fighting back from all of the "police reports" you keep mentioning so he didn't knock her out. Which I am sure you agree he could have being he is the big strong man and all.
In fact the reports say that she was irate and he was trying to calm her down. Let me guess. She had a right to be irate after she got hit right? Of course she did. But this wasn't WWF. This was a "teenager" as you said who fucked up bad. Really bad and mishandled this situation. Period.
Not a pattern or premeditated stomp out. My point.
No, you're just providing every rationale possible.
But you understand it.
Why is this even a discussion? Only ONE person was beaten in this case. All of these arguments and excuses prove that you and others are "crying" about it.
WE AREN'T TALKING ABOUT RIHANNA
BET YOUR BOTTOM DOLLAR THAT RIHANNA AINT THE TOPIC
RIHANNA RIHANNA DON'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT RIHANNA, SHE'S ONLY A DAY AWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY
Please comeback when you understand this isn't about Rihanna.
My question is simple: Why should not a person attack someone and not expect them to return in kind? This has nothing to do with Rihanna.
I don't know if this was a comment towards my posts w/ Owl or not.
I had no issue with what he said until his talking out of his neck thing b/c that discredited my experience with this issue and the fact that I said it varied from place to place.
If you weren't talking about that then please disregard.
but to speak to this thread in general: i do believe that women get over w/ the assistance of the system sometimes when it comes to this issue of being hit.
this is another example of perceptions of gender roles backfiring on guys, which makes me further question why some support them so stringently.(but that's another thread)
The only one with his head in his ass is you. The tough guy who wants to be allowed to hit women.
Hate to break the news to you but grown-ups beat up kids and teenagers all the time for all sorts of reasons (real and imagined). Some adults even think those kids deserve it.
It's not about "mental processes" fool. It's about defenselessness. (I doubt you have a mother.)
So basically, more women tend to cry to the authorities when they get fucked up than men.?
Women tend to get fucked up more that men?
This is basically intuitive shit isn't it? I'm just asking, not being facetious.
And how many of those 834,000 men are ghei?
Like I said earlier. Real men are biochemically wired differently than women and as such should respond differently in these situations.
But I was responding directly to you, not on behalf of "people" and I never raised the "size" argument.
You asked for "logic".
I said everything isn't logically reducible and even it it was I'd like to be on the conducive side of the equation.
Your following question was: "And what would you do if a man hit you?"
To which i responded with a pair of incomparable fruit because I failed to see the relevance of diverting your argument to male-on-male violence.
apparently.
Click the link Sean...
It talks about the frequency of gay on gay attacks versus female on male. I was trying to avoid a Colin.
And all I have been saying is there is a double standard with this shit and it is perpetuated by the fact that men believe they should never retaliate against women for fear of being bitchmade.
How in the hell do you look going to the police saying my wife just fucked me up. If a woman was fucking you up you probably wouldn't say shit about it period. How do you respond to that? If a woman pulls out a damn frying pan and just starts wailing on your ass out the blue? What the hell do you do?
Grin and bear it? Act like it don't hurt?
It talks about the frequency of gay on gay attacks versus female on male. I was trying to avoid a Colin.
And all I have been saying is there is a double standard with this shit and it is perpetuated by the fact that men believe they should never retaliate against women for fear of being bitchmade.
How in the hell do you look going to the police saying my wife just fucked me up. If a woman was fucking you up you probably wouldn't say shit about it period. How do you respond to that? If a woman pulls out a damn frying pan and just starts wailing on your ass out the blue? What the hell do you do?
Grin and bear it? Act like it don't hurt?
No I don't. I want true equality. Or not. Whichever women choose. Women, not all but most, want to have the benefits of some gender roles and social mores, but not ALL. Usually, they don't want the ones that place them at a disadvantage.
Hate to break it to you sport but...THAT AIN'T GOT SHIT TO DO WITH ANYTHING WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.
Word is bond?
Like i said, women are not qualified to speak, outside of rhetoric, on the dynamics of the bias that black men deal with when the cops enter the picture in a domestic violence situation.
It's like white people deconstructing racism. Academic.
And that issue has very little to do with gender roles and more to do with the historical dynamic between oppressive authority and the black male. The woman is just a prop.
That's what I thought too.
So you're saying a woman is "Defenseless"?
Women are not defenseless. They are at a disadvantage but not defenseless. Big difference.
Click the link Sean...
It talks about the frequency of gay on gay attacks versus female on male. I was trying to avoid a Colin.
And all I have been saying is there is a double standard with this shit and it is perpetuated by the fact that men believe they should never retaliate against women for fear of being bitchmade.
How in the hell do you look going to the police saying my wife just fucked me up. If a woman was fucking you up you probably wouldn't say shit about it period. How do you respond to that? If a woman pulls out a damn frying pan and just starts wailing on your ass out the blue? What the hell do you do?
Grin and bear it? Act like it don't hurt?
And I would have been the first to post the Collin picture.
My bad, I'll read the article.
Andey, I agree with you that there is a disparity in reported cases.
But that has nothing to do with what I'm saying. A man shouldn't be in that situation to begin with.
That's my opinion.
The thread is titled "Why do women feel that they should't be hit?"
To me, that seems like a leading question.
Of course women use the populist social norm of the indefensibility of a man hitting a woman and the reaction bias of the authorities as a "force-field". Any man with some gatdamn sense should know and anticipate this and act accordingly.
That's all I'm saying.
Insanity - Doing the same experiment over and over hoping for a different result.
- A. Einstein.
Which is it?
interesting...
hmmm that is interesting, so what about if they are the ones calling the cops or NOT calling the cops...still not qualified outside of academic rhetoric?
what if they say they agree and give a personal account? still not qualified?
what if they disagree and give a personal account? still not qualified?
i guess what I'm trying to get at is...are you saying that people are only qualified to speak on things they have directly experienced?
No animal is defenseless.
If we're talking degrees here, then ...
16 pages. At least ...
But you are discounting the effect of "love" in this situation.
You are with a girl. Been with her for 5 years. Going good. You fuck up and call her a bitch one day. She wasn't having that and she haul off and smack the shit out of you. No harm no foul right.
Since you didn't retaliate that time the next time she is pissed off she pick up a broomstick and hit you in the shoulder. Brush that shit off. Next time it's a frying pan.
In your theory he should have just left her alone after the first smack. How many times have you left a girl because she smacked you and you felt unsafe??? How hard does she have to hit you or with what does she have to hit you with before you decide enough is enough cuz???
That's my point. If it were a woman then she realistically should walk away on the first one right? Because you are stronger. So when should you walk away? When she crack a damn 13" over your head!
Does that balance the shit out enough for you!
You are with a girl. Been with her for 5 years. Going good. You fuck up and call her a bitch one day. She wasn't having that and she haul off and smack the shit out of you. No harm no foul right.
Since you didn't retaliate that time the next time she is pissed off she pick up a broomstick and hit you in the shoulder. Brush that shit off. Next time it's a frying pan.
In your theory he should have just left her alone after the first smack. How many times have you left a girl because she smacked you and you felt unsafe??? How hard does she have to hit you or with what does she have to hit you with before you decide enough is enough cuz???
That's my point.
If it were a woman then she realistically should walk away on the first one right? Because you are stronger. So when should you walk away? When she crack a damn 13" over your head! Does that balance the shit out enough for you!
I think he is saying you can not speak on things you will never have a realistic chance of experiencing.
That's like me speaking on the symptoms of PMS. Academically I can...realistically I can't.
I think he is saying you can not speak on things you will never have a realistic chance of experiencing.
That's like me speaking on the symptoms of PMS. Academically I can...realistically I can't.
that is what i thought
but there is a difference between me trying to say how it feels to have a dick ( i can't cuz that is not possible outside of academics) versus me talking about the dynamic of black men, DV and the cops being that i can possibly be indirectly involved w/ that person, affected by it, responsible for it.
but yeah that stance is interesting...that invalidates...nvm
im not gonna derail this thread
back on to the topic at hand
What? The double standard argument?
I don't think it does. I'm curious though as to what you are thinking???
^ i edited my response a lil bit
but if i feel like it, i will start another thread about this matter 2moro
^ i edited my response a lil bit
but if i feel like it, i will start another thread about this matter 2moro
Aight do that then.
Obviously that's not what I'm saying.
People have the volition to "speak" on or about whatever the fuck they want.
That doesn't mean they know what the fuck they're talking about or it makes sense.
With respect to the form and structure within the context of an argument, you can use reasoning ... deductive formal logic or inductive critical thinking.
Which tends to work for things like math, hop-scotch and not playing in traffic.
Or you can use posteriori knowledge.
Which works for shit like this.
But you are discounting the effect of "love" in this situation.
You are with a girl. Been with her for 5 years. Going good. You fuck up and call her a bitch one day. She wasn't having that and she haul off and smack the shit out of you. No harm no foul right.
Since you didn't retaliate that time the next time she is pissed off she pick up a broomstick and hit you in the shoulder. Brush that shit off. Next time it's a frying pan.
In your theory he should have just left her alone after the first smack. How many times have you left a girl because she smacked you and you felt unsafe??? How hard does she have to hit you or with what does she have to hit you with before you decide enough is enough cuz???
That's my point.
Does that balance the shit out enough for you!
Introduce the ambiguous variable of "love" into your logic argument and all bets are off.
Indirectly involved.
Like I said, reasoning suited for hop-scotch n stuff ...
Like a CAC talking about racism.
Love is static in this equation. It is DOMESTIC VIOLENCE. Love is not a variable. It is a constant of variable degree.
But take love out. How hard (or frequent or with what object) does it take a woman to hit a man with to be equivalent to the force of a man.
Cause that is what we are saying right? It's more unlikely that a woman can hurt a man? So therefore the rules of engagement change? I say bullshit.
I say that if the "logic" is in fact logic that a hit is a hit. But as in my scenario above we see that a hit is not indeed a hit but a variable apparently when applied by a female.
So this is not logical. Am I right???
Love is static in this equation. It is DOMESTIC VIOLENCE. Love is not a variable. It is a constant of variable degree.
see ...
Never said anything about frequency or degree of violence in any of my arguments. Never said anything about un-likelihood of women hurting a man.
Please feel free to quote me.
I never attempted to apply logic to this situation. In fact, I have repeatedly challenged the application of any form of logic to this situation (see my posts to LD)
Again, feel free to quote me.
Time for pancakes and bed.
ITA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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