If Obama wins... will the "the man" excuses stop?

Respectfully I'm gonna ask to edit your post removing the section about being shot 43 times until you've read the Sean Bell story.

This young man was murdered by NYPD leaving his batchelors party not out committing some type of crime. Please, please make yourself more aware of whats happening to all our people.

Your comments in this case were not only insensitive but horribly off-base. :smh::smh::smh:
 
I see your point but, I can't quite agree with you. The inner city school systems are a mess. You can not tell me in good conscience that the quality of education is equal across the board. Not when you have children that graduate from school who can't even read. I'm not saying all but, even one is too many. The playing board is not level yet. It's better but, it's not level. And yes, yes, yes. parents DO have something to do with it but, it's a teachers job to teach. We pay taxes so that teachers can teach our children. many inner city schools don't even have computers. How can a child compete in the information age when they don't have ANY computer skills. I'm not trying to tear your comment down but, IMHO, the playing board is not level.

But arent school funds to purchase those materials based on test scores and attendance of the students? But it is a teachers job to teach but sometimes the students just dont let it happen when they become so disruptive and the teacher begins to teach only the ones that care about learning.Ive been to a school like this so I know but thats not always the case.
 
I don't think you're being fair in your assessments... You're not talking real world. You're talking perfect world scenario. Let's pretend this isn't a perfect world and that whites actually have the say so in all of this (which they do). Of course you can sit there and talk about how you'll burn this muthafugga down yada yada yada but you or our people have NO REAL power in all of this. We have the right (of course) but it's a right that's somewhat loaned or given to us by those in power. Like it or not it's the truth.
i'm not talking about burning anything down. I'm talking about the very real hypocrisy of saying freedom and level playing field while not really doing it. How can you sit there and call it freedom when its "somewhat loaned" to you??? Is that what you teach your children?

Not understanding your argument here... You referring to AA being a crutch?

i'm saying that AA should not have been necessary in a country that calls itself land of the free and home of the brave..and that its exitence is PROOF of the culture of racism that persists not minority laziness or inferiority.


I'm talking about racism from the stance of the poster above me. I've personally not dealt with being victimized by the police or not being able to catch a cab. So I admit I'm ignorant because I just haven't experienced much racism in that regard sense I'm older.
me neither but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.


Here's another statement you guys aren't going to like... But first let me say... 43 times is really cruel and shouldn't have happened.

At the same time... These policemen aren't just picking random people off of the streets and letting random bullets loose. I know and accept my stance will not be well accepted but I'm sick of people playing victim when they were in the wrong in the first place. I'm sure it wasn't a simple traffic violation he was stopped and being sought for.

how many white men have you ever heard of being shot 43 times? How many incidences of mistaken ID leading to shooting happen to white men by black cops or white cops?

Simple but found concept: Don't give the police a reason to have to draw a gun.
so basically you're saying don't be a person of color when the come a calling:rolleyes: cause it sure as hell doesn't happen with the same frequency with white suspects.
 
Respectfully I'm gonna ask to edit your post removing the section about being shot 43 times until you've read the Sean Bell story.

This young man was murdered by NYPD leaving his batchelors party not out committing some type of crime. Please, please make yourself more aware of whats happening to all our people.

Your comments in this case were not only insensitive but horribly off-base. :smh::smh::smh:

I will not...
After reading the story(I was going to until I read the story)... I'm right on point:

I respect the sensitivity of the case but again... They were not totally innocent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Bell
Furthermore, "Two of the five officers involved were black, one was white, one was Middle-Eastern, and one was of biracial black and Hispanic origin (Haitian/Mexican). The first officer to fire was black."
 
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how many white men have you ever heard of being shot 43 times? How many incidences of mistaken ID leading to shooting happen to white men by black cops or white cops?


so basically you're saying don't be a person of color when the come a calling:rolleyes: cause it sure as hell doesn't happen with the same frequency with white suspects.


Once again we're in agreement... Shit happens. I know that racism exists and I know it's out there and everything isn't all peachy in America. America isn't perfect and it's naive to believe so.

Real world scenario is that W's run everything. Can you not agree to that?

So if we or they can come up with AA to "give us a piece of the pie" why do you have a problem with that? Instead you want them to kiss your ass which They're not going to do.

If they've (they're ancestors) enslaved your people and are trying to get over this racism and stereotypical hump then how can you expect them to try and owe you something?

You have to look at the argument from their side of the coin also.
 
Excellent topic. My family often debates this very topic.

Do you think the teacher salary difference is that much different from urban & suburban schools systems?

Let's assume they're very close in range.

With that assumption in mind why is it in Detroit only 25% of people are graduating from high school? We all know that if you just show up to class you get a D. With those numbers in mind... why in the hell would I put state of the art equipment into something when only less than 25% of the people are genuinely interested (not all 25 are probably passing with flying colors)? Even though it's a school, it's still a business. Think as if it's YOUR $.

Here's another finger pointing directly at our people instead of at "the man". My sister lives in a middle class suburb of Kansas City (Lee's Summit (mostly white)). 2 years ago she used to frequent some of my daughters functions in elementary. This year her daughter started kindergarten.

She's been to all of her daughters functions and REALLY notices the difference in support that the kids receives from the family. On PTA days... Both parents are usually there. On grandparents day... you couldn't find a place to park. At my daughters grandparents day (suburban but lower middle class (half black half white)) there wasn't near as much participation.

You want to blame that on teachers?
Not the fact that there's no family structure (with 76% of blacks born out of wedlock)? Not the fact that there's more single mothers and babies raising babies in these urban areas? Not the fact that the tired grandparents are the ones raising these kids? Not the fact that these babies raising babies are immature and think "Superman" & pants sagging is cute? Not the fact that these single parents and /or grandparents probably didn't graduate themselves?

You only help those that help themselves.
See how everything points back to invest in yourself?

Side Note: As I'm typing this (well thought out rebuttal) I'm watching Hard to Kill. Steven Segal flicks are horrible.
About to turn on this CoD4 on the 360.

#1, How do YOU know the kids aren't interested? Dude, I gotta ask this question. Are you a Republican? How can children help themselves? Is it their fault they were born out of wedlock? And your response would be, "is it mine?" man, wake up. Each one teach one. So, what is your solution? Leave the kids in the inner city to just learn nothing? Don't give them the same quality education because they were born out of wedlock? I usually don't come at people on this board because everyone is entitled to their opinion but, my man, you actin' like you on the outside lookin' in. If we subscribed to your theory, we'd have to assume that it's innate that inner city kids don't WANT to learn. Teachers salaries may very well be the same in the 'burbs' and in the inner city. However, the teachers in the 'burbs' and beyond are given much more 'learning tools' to teach children. I can't harp on this point enough though. How can a child help his or her self? Can you answer that for me? How about when a young child tells his teacher that he/she would like to learn how to play the trumpet or piano or whatever. And the teacher has to say, "oh I'm sorry but, we don't have instruments anymore. They cut that program out. That child may be the next Bach or Gillespie. and yes I did comapre classical music to Jazz. Jazz is much harder to play. And as far as your statement about "why would you want to pay for putting money in inner city schools? You already are. It's just disproportionately going to the 'burbs'. And about the Brother who got shot 43 times. he didn't do anything. he was reaching in his pocket to pull out his ID. Are you one of those guys who says, 'well, it didn't happen to ME so I'm not going to worry about it'? Suppose your Pops or Moms were pulled over and snatched out of the car simply because they are Black? Would it bother you then? Of course, because it affects YOU. What you don't realize is that every time that happens anywhere, it affects YOU. Because that's one more racist cop who was allowed to get away with it. Someone close to YOU may be his/her next victim. Don't take my post personal. It's just that YOUR post struck a nerve with me. Much respect but, open your eyes my man.
 
Once again we're in agreement... Shit happens. I know that racism exists and I know it's out there and everything isn't all peachy in America. America isn't perfect and it's naive to believe so.

Real world scenario is that W's run everything. Can you not agree to that?

So if we or they can come up with AA to "give us a piece of the pie" why do you have a problem with that? Instead you want them to kiss your ass which They're not going to do.

If they've (they're ancestors) enslaved your people and are trying to get over this racism and stereotypical hump then how can you expect them to try and owe you something?

You have to look at the argument from their side of the coin also.

YOUR people? Are you sure you're Black? No Black man would make that mistake and talk about other Black people in the third person. But, you know what? you do you partna. You keep thinking that it's not YOUR problem. Something somewhere will make you wake up. I just hope and pray that it's not something catastrophic or tragic. I told you in an earlier post, it's not about White people kissing Black people's ass. It's about recognizing us as a people as equals. Just check out that bullshit Geraldine Ferraro said. If someone from the Obama camp had said that Hillary was only getting as far as she has because she was a female all hell would've broke loose. If Obama had lied about something like that Bosnia shit she lied about, the race would've been over. He would have been labled a 'liar'. Instead, she mis spoke. three times? back to the origianl point. The playing field is NOT level. Far from it. And as far as Obama not being where he is if he weren't Black(not your point), that is correct. he'd be the presumptive nominee already. He was a novelty at first. And now, they can't figure out a way to get him out of the race w/o seeming racist.
 
Once again we're in agreement... Shit happens. I know that racism exists and I know it's out there and everything isn't all peachy in America. America isn't perfect and it's naive to believe so.
living up to a promise you make isn't perfection..its called being a honest and true...it doesn't take perfection to achieve that.

Real world scenario is that W's run everything. Can you not agree to that?
whites gain control thru lies and backstabbing and when that fails then violence and there isn't one nation that they've made better by their presence..can you agree with that?

So if we or they can come up with AA to "give us a piece of the pie" why do you have a problem with that? Instead you want them to kiss your ass which They're not going to do.
No I want them to live up to their word...and you're right thats something they will not do..

If they've (they're ancestors) enslaved your people and are trying to get over this racism and stereotypical hump then how can you expect them to try and owe you something?
You have to look at the argument from their side of the coin also.

you must be either weak or white yourself to come up with that bullshit..:lol: if you don't see how ridiculous that statement is then you are truly lost.
 
If they've (they're ancestors) enslaved your people and are trying to get over this racism and stereotypical hump then how can you expect them to try and owe you something?

You have to look at the argument from their side of the coin also.
I understand where you're trying to go here, but are you certain that "they" are actually "trying to get over this racism and sterotypical hump" ??? Is that so or are they just trying to say let bygones be bygones ???

My interaction with whites tell me there is a lot of that attitude. Is that sufficient (get over it) and, if so, where does that leave us ??? Doesn't "its over, get over it" assume the playing field is sufficiently even and there is no need for policies (i.e., A/A) designed to even it, therefore, they need to be abolished ???

QueEx
 
#1, How do YOU know the kids aren't interested? Dude, I gotta ask this question. Are you a Republican? How can children help themselves? Is it their fault they were born out of wedlock? And your response would be, "is it mine?" man, wake up. Each one teach one. So, what is your solution? Leave the kids in the inner city to just learn nothing? Don't give them the same quality education because they were born out of wedlock? I usually don't come at people on this board because everyone is entitled to their opinion but, my man, you actin' like you on the outside lookin' in. If we subscribed to your theory, we'd have to assume that it's innate that inner city kids don't WANT to learn. Teachers salaries may very well be the same in the 'burbs' and in the inner city. However, the teachers in the 'burbs' and beyond are given much more 'learning tools' to teach children. I can't harp on this point enough though. How can a child help his or her self? Can you answer that for me? How about when a young child tells his teacher that he/she would like to learn how to play the trumpet or piano or whatever. And the teacher has to say, "oh I'm sorry but, we don't have instruments anymore. They cut that program out. That child may be the next Bach or Gillespie. and yes I did comapre classical music to Jazz. Jazz is much harder to play. And as far as your statement about "why would you want to pay for putting money in inner city schools? You already are. It's just disproportionately going to the 'burbs'. And about the Brother who got shot 43 times. he didn't do anything. he was reaching in his pocket to pull out his ID. Are you one of those guys who says, 'well, it didn't happen to ME so I'm not going to worry about it'? Suppose your Pops or Moms were pulled over and snatched out of the car simply because they are Black? Would it bother you then? Of course, because it affects YOU. What you don't realize is that every time that happens anywhere, it affects YOU. Because that's one more racist cop who was allowed to get away with it. Someone close to YOU may be his/her next victim. Don't take my post personal. It's just that YOUR post struck a nerve with me. Much respect but, open your eyes my man.

So you're saying... to split $ evenly between the schools when only 25% of the kids are proactively trying to learn and 80% of the students are trying to learn in another institution?

It does but it doesn't make sense. Remember... You're talking to someone that believes in helping those that help themselves. So if a school only has 25% of people interested in why in the hell would I give them the same amount of $ of a school that academically excels? Not saying that it's right or whatever but I understand.

Furthermore, it's the parents responsibility to get their kids out of that situation. I understand that parents can't always do that but it's then their responsibility for their kids to make the best out of their current situation.

Also... aren't you guys tired of copping out to the "he was reaching for his wallet excuse?" Everyone's a victim now-s-days... Of course he was done wronged but again, IT'S NOT LIKE HE WAS A RANDOM TARGET. HE WAS INITIALLY IN THE WRONG.

Novel concept... How about not going to the car to get a gun. Not running over another policeman (or which he believed was a civilian)? I know you've seen cops or shows where policemen shoot suspects that use their car as a weapon. Don't see how this was any different.

Also, doesn't the fact that a black officer fired the first shot negate the race is an issue angle in all of this?
 
YOUR people? Are you sure you're Black? No Black man would make that mistake and talk about other Black people in the third person. But, you know what? you do you partna. You keep thinking that it's not YOUR problem. Something somewhere will make you wake up. I just hope and pray that it's not something catastrophic or tragic. I told you in an earlier post, it's not about White people kissing Black people's ass. It's about recognizing us as a people as equals. Just check out that bullshit Geraldine Ferraro said. If someone from the Obama camp had said that Hillary was only getting as far as she has because she was a female all hell would've broke loose. If Obama had lied about something like that Bosnia shit she lied about, the race would've been over. He would have been labled a 'liar'. Instead, she mis spoke. three times? back to the origianl point. The playing field is NOT level. Far from it. And as far as Obama not being where he is if he weren't Black(not your point), that is correct. he'd be the presumptive nominee already. He was a novelty at first. And now, they can't figure out a way to get him out of the race w/o seeming racist.

Excuse me for not living up to your standards/expectations by saying "your" people in a debate. (Pretty petty isn't it?).

Of course it's my problem too... we're all in this together. So what I do in my family and immediate surroundings is try to teach/ portray self responsibility. It's no one's fault but my own if I'm a failure (if I"m a perfectly capable human being). To think otherwise is just an excuse to promote failure.

As far as Obama... As I said before, WE have to live up to a higher standard in order for US to succeed. WE all know that.

That's just it. They're not going to view "US" (happy now?) as equals until WE start taking responsibility for ourselves. For you to think you deserve their respect when WE can't even field a 50% graduation rate (when it's the norm for them) is preposterous. How about WE get out of the "baby daddy" mentality before WE start trying to earn the respect of others.

Again, looking at it from their perspective, would you respect a race if they fielded a < 50% graduation rate, kids pants hanging down to their ankles to go with the braids, prone to be imprisoned or dead by 21, 76% of kids born out of wedlock, higher percentage of people in race on government assistance? Why should OUR people (happy again) be any exception?

WE HAVE TO EARN IT (IF you want it)!
Personal responsibility is how WE do that.

Hope I passed your "blackness test" this time.
~Doing me.
 
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you must be either weak or white yourself to come up with that bullshit..:lol: if you don't see how ridiculous that statement is then you are truly lost.

Yup... weak & white.
You got me.

Or I could just be realist that's tired of the excuses we constantly think up to not succeed.

You do so well @ supporting them (the excuses).
 
Yup... weak & white.
You got me.

Or I could just be realist that's tired of the excuses we constantly think up to not succeed.

You do so well @ supporting them (the excuses).

actually you are the one with with excuses..."please give me a SOMEWHAT level playing field mr white man"...

If you knew you american history you'd know that crackas have never asked anyone to give them "somewhat" of anything...if they did america would still be a british province..

White motherfuckers have always DEMANDED to be treated with respect yet expect everyone else to accept their eking out respect to others in dribs and drabs...the have then NERVE to want a pat on back for doing it.

And niggas like you are only too happy to do it...You want to thank him for treating you SOMEWHAT like a human for the last 40 years and dismiss the last 2 CENTURIES when he treated you like a 2nd class citizen and property before that..:smh:

nigga please:rolleyes:

I feel sorry for your son:smh:
 
I don't know anyone alive today that has worked in a cotton field as a slave. I refuse to believe that a blunt puffing, weed selling, du-rag wearing, 84 caddy on dubs driving black guy deserves reparations in the least bit.The SLAVES deserved reparations not their descendants. We all know that reparations will never come so stop living in that fantasy world. I know things aren't perfect for black folks in America but take for example my father..he's black as night, grew up in small town in Dominican republic, English was not his first language. He did not use his skin color as an excuse (He was fully aware of racism, but refused to use it as an excuse) and against all odds he became a successful man. I'm not saying that if he can make it any black guy can make it but I feel like a lot of black people use their skin color as an excuse and blame "the man" for all their woes...I know we get discriminated to this day but lets use a proactive approach to combat racism. I truly believe that only WE can stop ourselves. There's nothing the white man fears more than a well educated, financially stable, socially responsible black man.
 
I don't know anyone alive today that has worked in a cotton field as a slave. I refuse to believe that a blunt puffing, weed selling, du-rag wearing, 84 caddy on dubs driving black guy deserves reparations in the least bit.The SLAVES deserved reparations not their descendants. We all know that reparations will never come so stop living in that fantasy world. I know things aren't perfect for black folks in America but take for example my father..he's black as night, grew up in small town in Dominican republic, English was not his first language. He did not use his skin color as an excuse (He was fully aware of racism, but refused to use it as an excuse) and against all odds he became a successful man. I'm not saying that if he can make it any black guy can make it but I feel like a lot of black people use their skin color as an excuse and blame "the man" for all their woes...I know we get discriminated to this day but lets use a proactive approach to combat racism. I truly believe that only WE can stop ourselves. There's nothing the white man fears more than a well educated, financially stable, socially responsible black man.

the argument (as I see it) isn't about reparations or excuses of the "the man" holding us down..its about the idea that we should congratulate white america for doing SOME of what the country promised..
 
I don't know anyone alive today that has worked in a cotton field as a slave. I refuse to believe that a blunt puffing, weed selling, du-rag wearing, 84 caddy on dubs driving black guy deserves reparations in the least bit.The SLAVES deserved reparations not their descendants. We all know that reparations will never come so stop living in that fantasy world. I know things aren't perfect for black folks in America but take for example my father..he's black as night, grew up in small town in Dominican republic, English was not his first language. He did not use his skin color as an excuse (He was fully aware of racism, but refused to use it as an excuse) and against all odds he became a successful man. I'm not saying that if he can make it any black guy can make it but I feel like a lot of black people use their skin color as an excuse and blame "the man" for all their woes...I know we get discriminated to this day but lets use a proactive approach to combat racism. I truly believe that only WE can stop ourselves. There's nothing the white man fears more than a well educated, financially stable, socially responsible black man.

Exactly!
There's 2 of us.
Was starting to get shocked & worried that I was the only one.
 
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the argument (as I see it) isn't about reparations or excuses of the "the man" holding us down..its about the idea that we should congratulate white america for doing SOME of what the country promised..

WRONG!

I've repeatedly admitted that the playing field isn't level but we shouldn't use it as an excuse while you're constantly harping on the non-level playing field. I've argued that if I was W America, I wouldn't give you some of my power unless you attempted to help yourselves while you seem to think you deserve it off the bat because YOUR (pissed someone off) ancestors were slaves.
 
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actually you are the one with with excuses..."please give me a SOMEWHAT level playing field mr white man"...

If you knew you american history you'd know that crackas have never asked anyone to give them "somewhat" of anything...if they did america would still be a british province..

White motherfuckers have always DEMANDED to be treated with respect yet expect everyone else to accept their eking out respect to others in dribs and drabs...the have then NERVE to want a pat on back for doing it.

And niggas like you are only too happy to do it...You want to thank him for treating you SOMEWHAT like a human for the last 40 years and dismiss the last 2 CENTURIES when he treated you like a 2nd class citizen and property before that..:smh:

nigga please:rolleyes:

I feel sorry for your son:smh:

That post right there say everything I need to know.
You have to let go of your racist/ pro black ideology to see thing through my perspective.

~ My son will turn out just fine. He'll be raised around white people. :yes:

That's a joke by the way.
 
I don't know anyone alive today that has worked in a cotton field as a slave. I refuse to believe that a blunt puffing, weed selling, du-rag wearing, 84 caddy on dubs driving black guy deserves reparations in the least bit.The SLAVES deserved reparations not their descendants. We all know that reparations will never come so stop living in that fantasy world. I know things aren't perfect for black folks in America but take for example my father..he's black as night, grew up in small town in Dominican republic, English was not his first language. He did not use his skin color as an excuse (He was fully aware of racism, but refused to use it as an excuse) and against all odds he became a successful man. I'm not saying that if he can make it any black guy can make it but I feel like a lot of black people use their skin color as an excuse and blame "the man" for all their woes...I know we get discriminated to this day but lets use a proactive approach to combat racism. I truly believe that only WE can stop ourselves. There's nothing the white man fears more than a well educated, financially stable, socially responsible black man.
 
I don't know anyone alive today that has worked in a cotton field as a slave. I refuse to believe that a blunt puffing, weed selling, du-rag wearing, 84 caddy on dubs driving black guy deserves reparations in the least bit.The SLAVES deserved reparations not their descendants. We all know that reparations will never come so stop living in that fantasy world.
Reparations - the payment of damages; the act of making amends, offering expiation, or giving satisfaction for a wrong or injury. (Meriam Webster, Online)

Compensatory damages - Amount of money adequate to compensate for any actual damages caused by the party against whom they awarded. ('Lectric Law Library's Lexicon Online)

Do you see any substantive difference in the two definitions? I would suggest that there isn't.

<center>_____________________________________</center>

Driver runs into Pedestrian crossing the street; Driver was over the limit drunk and didn't see Pedestrian in the cross-walk, where Driver had to yield. Pedestrian is severely injured and, after a few months in the hospital, dies of his injuries. A month before Pedestrian died, Driver had a heart attack on the golf course and too, passed away.

Pedestrian had several children who sued Driver's estate (because driver was deceased) seeking compensatory damages. Driver's children answered the lawsuit saying: "Hey, it was Driver; we weren't around or even in the car when Driver hit Pedestrian, so why should we pay you, Children of Pedestrian, anything received from our beloved father, Drunken Driver.

Who wins: Pedestrian's children. The law of compensatory damages is as old as this country. (Of course, its more complicated than this, but, if the well established law provides for Pedestrian's children to be compensated because of the wrong caused to them by 3D, Deceased Drunken Driver, why not compensate the children of those wronged by government sanctioned slavery ???

Even if the government doesn't pay a dime of reparations, isn't the above still a good argument why the government has a responsibility to do what in can to correct the disadvantages caused by the conduct it sanctioned ???


I know things aren't perfect for black folks in America but take for example my father..he's black as night, grew up in small town in Dominican republic, English was not his first language. He did not use his skin color as an excuse (He was fully aware of racism, but refused to use it as an excuse) and against all odds he became a successful man.
Respect.

I'm not saying that if he can make it any black guy can make it but I feel like a lot of black people use their skin color as an excuse and blame "the man" for all their woes...I know we get discriminated to this day but lets use a proactive approach to combat racism. I truly believe that only WE can stop ourselves. There's nothing the white man fears more than a well educated, financially stable, socially responsible black man.
5^ here too.

QueEx
 
WRONG!

I've repeatedly admitted that the playing field isn't level but we shouldn't use it as an excuse while you're constantly harping on the non-level playing field. I've argued that if I was W America, I wouldn't give you some of my power unless you attempted to help yourselves while you seem to think you deserve it off the bat because YOUR (pissed someone off) ancestors were slaves.


completely off base as usual in this thread:smh:

I have not said a thing about excuses for black underachievement. I said that the full rights and privileges and respect is something that comes AUTOMATICALLY as an american citizen..or at least thats what the constitution says. And white people positioning themselves as some kind of gatekeeper to those rights and privileges is unconscionable and a crime against their OWN written word of what it means to be an american.

The fact that you agree that they should be the gatekeepers of all things american is sad and the fact that you're apparently brainwashing your child to believe that as well is a crime against him.

this has NOTHING to do with slavery and EVERYTHING to do with a playing field that you YOURSELF admit is not level...and the ONLY reason its not level is because your precious white folk DO NOT WANT IT THAT WAY PERIOD...

Educate you and your child on AMERICAN HISTORY and see when did black people in this country ever have a chance to "help themselves"..

After slavery was abolished in the 1860s..a chance to level the playing field here..white came up with BLACK CODES to disenfranchise and regulate blacks to 2nd class citizenship..

The black Codes are most commonly associated with the Southern states after the American Civil War and the Reconstruction, where they were used to regulate the freedoms of former slaves. In terms of laws that discriminated against African Americans, Black Codes developed over the span of half a century or more. Some laws dated to the early 19th century in Northern states.

When that was outlawed..here's ANOTHER chance for whites to live up to their word...but they didn't instead they created JIM CROW LAWS and segregation. and while was happening other atrocities occurred..

How about the Rosewood Massacre of January 1923, in which over several days, white mobs attacked and killed African Americans, and burned most of the buildings in the town. The town was abandoned by residents during the massacre and was not reoccupied.

The Tulsa race riot, also known as the 1921 race riot, The night that Tulsa died, the Tulsa Race War, or the Greenwood riot, was a massacre during a large-scale civil disorder confined mainly to the racially segregated Greenwood neighborhood of Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA on May 31, 1921. During the 16 hours of rioting, over 800 people were admitted to local hospitals with injuries, an estimated 10,000 were left homeless, 35 city blocks composed of 1,256 residences were destroyed by fire, and $1.8 million (nearly $21 million in 2007 dollars) in property damage. Officially, thirty-nine people were reported killed in the riot, of whom ten were white. The actual number of black citizens killed by white local militiamen and volunteers as a result of the riot was estimated in the Red Cross report[1][2] at around 300; making the Tulsa race riot the worst in US history. Other estimates range as high as 3,000, based on the number of grave diggers and other circumstances, although the archaeological and forensic work needed to confirm the number of dead has not been performed.

The 1943 Detroit Race Riot was a race riot which occurred during World War II. The riot began on June 20, 1943, on Belle Isle (one of Detroit's largest parks) when roughly one hundred thousand Detroiters gathered to enjoy the hot Sunday afternoon. Hostile confrontations between young blacks and whites broke out throughout the day, and fights erupted on the bridge connecting Belle Isle to Southeast Detroit. Rumors of race war roused whites and blacks, who both took to the streets near Belle Isle and in the downtown area and attacked passersby, streetcars, and property. Blacks in Paradise Valley (“Black Bottom”) looted white-owned shops; whites overturned and burned cars of black drivers on Woodward Avenue. The Detroit police, however, sympathized with the white rioters and were brutal to the blacks: 17 blacks were shot to death by the police, but no whites.

and the list goes on and on...FYI in the TULSA INCIDENT the part of town that burned down was called the BLACK WALLSTREET..

The Greenwood section of Tulsa was home to a commercial district so prosperous it was known as "the Negro Wall Street" (now commonly referred to as "the Black Wall Street"). Ironically, the economic enclaves here and elsewhere — bounded and supported by racial discrimination — supported prosperity and capital formation within the community. In the surrounding areas of northeastern Oklahoma, blacks also enjoyed relative prosperity and participated in the oil boom

This is rich and well off black people in 1921 no less..how fucking much MORE could those black people do to PROVE they deserved the rights and respect promised to them by america???

Show me whole sections of affluent white neighborhoods burned down and hundreds of white people killed in the process while the black neighborhoods remain untouched...show me where the cops shot down white rioters and locked up hundreds of white protesters while blacks go free..

Your comment of I wouldn't give you some of my power unless you attempted to help yourselves ...

is BULLSHIT and shows you know NOTHING of american history, black achievement or the lies and deceit of white people..PERIOD.

Hell even TODAY blacks make up the majority of drug offenses in the "justice system" while there are studies that show that OVER 70% of drug users are WHITE...

and if you care to notice NONE of these incidences have anything to do with SLAVERY..

So stop using that worn out cracka talk of "you never experienced slavery" or "you have to EARN it" as an EXCUSE to defend white people when all along they never intended to give it in the first place regardless of how much you work..
 
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Excuse me for not living up to your standards/expectations by saying "your" people in a debate. (Pretty petty isn't it?).

Of course it's my problem too... we're all in this together. So what I do in my family and immediate surroundings is try to teach/ portray self responsibility. It's no one's fault but my own if I'm a failure (if I"m a perfectly capable human being). To think otherwise is just an excuse to promote failure.

As far as Obama... As I said before, WE have to live up to a higher standard in order for US to succeed. WE all know that.

That's just it. They're not going to view "US" (happy now?) as equals until WE start taking responsibility for ourselves. For you to think you deserve their respect when WE can't even field a 50% graduation rate (when it's the norm for them) is preposterous. How about WE get out of the "baby daddy" mentality before WE start trying to earn the respect of others.

Again, looking at it from their perspective, would you respect a race if they fielded a < 50% graduation rate, kids pants hanging down to their ankles to go with the braids, prone to be imprisoned or dead by 21, 76% of kids born out of wedlock, higher percentage of people in race on government assistance? Why should OUR people (happy again) be any exception?

WE HAVE TO EARN IT (IF you want it)!
Personal responsibility is how WE do that.

Hope I passed your "blackness test" this time.
~Doing me.

I graduated from college, my Mother was a college graduate and an educator, my oldest son graduated from college and is in graduate school. I have two cousins that graduated from Harvard and their father (my uncle) taught at MIT. He (Dalton Baugh) was in the 'Golden 13'. The first 13 African American Commissioned Officers in the Navy. (Google it if you don't believe me). I could sit on my laurels (or my family's laurels) but, I don't. Some are not as fortunate as I have been. It's not about 'everyone has to do for themselves'. Some can't. So again I say to you, do we just leave them behind? I didn't read the entire post of the guy you agreed with. His analogy of 82 caddy drivin', blunt smokin', whatever is sad. If you or he really think that that is what most of our youth does that is really sad. Somebody's watchin' too much television. And you never did answer my question that I asked. I ask again, How do YOU know that most inner-city youth are not interested in school?
 
That post right there say everything I need to know.
You have to let go of your racist/ pro black ideology to see thing through my perspective.

~ My son will turn out just fine. He'll be raised around white people. :yes:

That's a joke by the way.

there is nothing racist or pro black about what I'm talking about... if anything its pro AMERICAN..

again check your history book..I demand the same respect that the white man demands... no more and for damn sure no less..
 
I ask again, How do YOU know that most inner-city youth are not interested in school?

I have family members and friends and I'm amongst it. I don't watch & rely on the news... The mindset of these youngsters now-a-days is totally lost. (For the most part).

KCMO is one of the cities where the graduation rate in some of our schools is less than 50%. If that's not an indicator of non-interest, I don't know what else to show you.

On my dad's side of the family the graduation rate is < 50% Most live in the city. On my mom's, 95%, mostly in the suburbs The 1 guy that didn't graduate on my mothers side was one of 2 (his brother) that lived in the city. It's really a sad epidemic.

Congrats on your family success.
I really admire & envy that.
 
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completely off base as usual in this thread:smh:

I have not said a thing about excuses for black underachievement. I said that the full rights and privileges and respect is something that comes AUTOMATICALLY as an american citizen..or at least thats what the constitution says.


Ah-ha That's the root of disagreement.

You're actually going off of the constitution as if it's your USA bible.

You're taking it literally and want them to hold their word with what's in writing. I'm acknowledging that even though it's there... it has no meaning when it comes to those of power and who's willing to relinquish it.

I guess I'm using real world ideology when you're trying to apply theory to it.

Furthermore, I don't need your lecturing on how to teach/raise my kids... I'm aware of racism and I teach them about the way we've suffered but not to the point to where they hang their head and lively hood on it to use it as an crutch for failure. They're very open minded about race and I sometimes have to watch what I say about it or my 11 yo quickly corrects me. In this case ignorance is a good thing. It keeps her mind open and doesn't teach her to not trust someone based on the color of their skin and instead teaches her to relate to people as people. That's why I think racism/power will slowly die off with the racist people that will eventually die off.

As far as laws prohibiting blacks... they're still alive and well today. In some places around here you have to get both side of your neighbors approval to sell your house. That law was designed to keep blacks out of certain neighborhoods. Legislation is trying to change that.

I have a feeling we're not all that far off... You just choose to REALLY acknowledge what happend/happening while I say move on and better yourself and do you regardless because nothing's going to change if you don't make it change.

You're totally off base with your 70% statistic. I hate those "Whites are the majority of people on welfare" rants. Could it be that they're 70% of the drug user because they're 70% of the population? This is the only stat that's alarming... WE're 12% of the general population but we're 70% of the prison population.

~ We're agreeing but I think you disagree.
 
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Ah-ha That's the root of disagreement.

You're actually going off of the constitution as if it's your USA bible.

You're taking it literally and want them to hold their word with what's in writing. I'm acknowledging that even though it's there... it has no meaning when it comes to those of power and who's willing to relinquish it.

I guess I'm using real world ideology when you're trying to apply theory to it.
Theory??? MLK DIED for that "theory"..

When the architects of our republic wrote the magnificent words of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, they were signing a promissory note to which every American was to fall heir. This note was a promise that all men, yes, black men as well as white men, would be guaranteed the "unalienable Rights" of "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." It is obvious today that America has defaulted on this promissory note, insofar as her citizens of color are concerned. Instead of honoring this sacred obligation, America has given the Negro people a bad check, a check which has come back marked "insufficient funds."

thats an excerpt from his I Have A Dream Speech..thats the part that white people ignore when they talk about King and what he stood for and how great he was and blah blah blah.. everthing BUT the fact that he was making a stand to make them live up to their word..and he got a bullet in the neck for doing it.

So if you have a written contract with a person and they fail to live up to it..you have the right to demand that they do. An if they don't then they are not an honorable person..

And your last statement proves that white people have no honor..and as such who the fuck are they that we have to prove ANYTHING too..

Furthermore, I don't need your lecturing on how to teach/raise my kids... I'm aware of racism and I teach them about the way we've suffered but not to the point to where they hang their head and lively hood on it to use it as an crutch for failure.
Where have I said anywhere on this thread about blacks not being responsible for their failures? I said that blacks don't have a level playing field and we should not accept that...you believe we should.

They're very open minded about race and I sometimes have to watch what I say about it or my 11 yo quickly corrects me. In this case ignorance is a good thing. It keeps her mind open and doesn't teach her to not trust someone based on the color of their skin and instead teaches her to relate to people as people. That's why I think racism/power will slowly die off with the racist people that will eventually die off.
whites broke over 20 treaties and laws concerning their dealings with Native Americans... if someone lies to you ONCE or TWICE you won't fuck with them ever again becuz they've proven to be untrustworthy..yet the indians gave whites at least 20 CHANCES and they fucked them over each and every time.

thats the thing..minorities have ALWAYS given whites the benefit of the doubt..even tho they don't deserve it..thats nothing new on our side at all..
As far as laws prohibiting blacks... they're still alive and well today. In some places around here you have to get both side of your neighbors approval to sell your house. That law was designed to keep blacks out of certain neighborhoods. Legislation is trying to change that.
why is there a need for trying? I thought merit and hard work was enough..wasn't that what you said earlier? We have to PROVE that we can help ourselves...well being able to afford a home next to white people should be proof enough right?:rolleyes:

I have a feeling we're not all that far off... You just choose to REALLY acknowledge what happend/happening while I say move on and better yourself and do you regardless because nothing's going to change if you don't make it change.
make it change like what.. TRYING to get legislation so that blacks who can afford it can live anywhere they please in 2008 in the 21st century.. meanwhile white people don't seem to have that problem.. Its hard to MOVE ON when you can't MOVE IN..

You're totally off base with your 70% statistic. I hate those "Whites are the majority of people on welfare" rants. Could it be that they're 70% of the drug user because they're 70% of the population? This is the only stat that's alarming... WE're 12% of the general population but we're 70% of the prison population.

could it be that whites just aren't arrested at the same rates that blacks are...ever consider that while blacks are OVERrepresented in stats..whites are UNDERrepresented in some of those same stats? Ever wonder how that happens?

~ We're agreeing but I think you disagree.
no we don't agree... I don't believe in slow change or the idea that I have to prove my worth to a man who has no honor and thinks i'm less than human no matter what I do..you believe the exact opposite.
 
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I have family members and friends and I'm amongst it. I don't watch & rely on the news... The mindset of these youngsters now-a-days is totally lost. (For the most part).

KCMO is one of the cities where the graduation rate in some of our schools is less than 50%. If that's not an indicator of non-interest, I don't know what else to show you.

On my dad's side of the family the graduation rate is < 50% Most live in the city. On my mom's, 95%, mostly in the suburbs The 1 guy that didn't graduate on my mothers side was one of 2 (his brother) that lived in the city. It's really a sad epidemic.

Congrats on your family success.
I really admire & envy that.

I feel funny saying thak you to your congrats. Not that I'm not appreciative but, well, I 'll just say thanks and move on to the next subject. You still didn't answer one of my questions though. I'll tell you what would make a difference in those children's lives. If it seemed like someone was interested in THEM. If you can reach one child, the results can be exponential. What dio I do? I coach youth football and mentor kids. I come from a two parent home so, I was straight. However, I had scores of men AND women that helped me along the way. My parents, youth sports coaches, teachers, uncles, aunts, cousins, friends, whatever. You can believe what you want to belive but, the quality of education is not the same in the city and the suburbs. I grew up in the city. I know.
 
I feel funny saying thak you to your congrats. Not that I'm not appreciative but, well, I 'll just say thanks and move on to the next subject. You still didn't answer one of my questions though. I'll tell you what would make a difference in those children's lives. If it seemed like someone was interested in THEM. If you can reach one child, the results can be exponential. What dio I do? I coach youth football and mentor kids. I come from a two parent home so, I was straight. However, I had scores of men AND women that helped me along the way. My parents, youth sports coaches, teachers, uncles, aunts, cousins, friends, whatever. You can believe what you want to belive but, the quality of education is not the same in the city and the suburbs. I grew up in the city. I know.

Dude we're black men trying to make it in this world. Even if we disagree we can still have mutual respect for each other. We're people... Not some knuckle dragging neanderthals that can't accept/give props when due. Take it in stride... Your family structure is a rarity in the black community. It's highly admirable.

Having said that, I completely agree with everything you've posted. I'm a firm believer of helping others that need it and are attempting to help themselves (If they're young they get a pass on the helping yourself part). Sometimes they just need some attention just as all of us had at some point in our tweener years. I coach multiple sports as well and consider myself a mentor to my younger cousins.

Hell, the cousin (on my moms side) that didn't graduate wife asked me to mentor her sons (one hers & one theirs) because he's not handling his responsibility and still stuck in his '88 year where it's great if you're the gangster or tough guy. The oldest was almost flunking out of school and now he's on his second year of college. I can't take credit for it but I'd like to think our talks and discussions helped him open his eyes to know that anything's achievable.


At the current time, I can't devote more time outside of my family because I have 4 of my own to raise but I'd love to.

You're spot on about each one teach one.
It still goes back to responsible people. Parents being responsible to INVEST time into their children will go a long ways.

The education system is slanted to the burbs and major universities. Inner city schools and HBCU's get the shaft when it comes to funding. I know because I went to both.

You're dead on with your overall assessment. No arguments here with your logic.

I basically relay to the kids a couple of basic rules (in no particular order).
1. Never use the white man as an excuse.
2. Get an education (so many opportunities exist just because of a piece of paper).
3. Nothing's forever (NOTHING).
4. A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do (basically take on responsibility).
5. Never get a credit card.

My number 1 motto in life: Everything in life is black and white... It's human emotion that creates the grey areas.
 
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Dude we're black men trying to make it in this world. Even if we disagree we can still have mutual respect for each other. We're people... Not some knuckle dragging neanderthals that can't accept/give props when due. Take it in stride... Your family structure is a rarity in the black community. It's highly admirable.

Having said that, I completely agree with everything you've posted. I'm a firm believer of helping others that need it and are attempting to help themselves (If they're young they get a pass on the helping yourself part). Sometimes they just need some attention just as all of us had at some point in our tweener years. I coach multiple sports as well and consider myself a mentor to my younger cousins.

Hell, the cousin (on my moms side) that didn't graduate wife asked me to mentor her sons (one hers & one theirs) because he's not handling his responsibility and still stuck in his '88 year where it's great if you're the gangster or tough guy. The oldest was almost flunking out of school and now he's on his second year of college. I can't take credit for it but I'd like to think our talks and discussions helped him open his eyes to know that anything's achievable.


At the current time, I can't devote more time outside of my family because I have 4 of my own to raise but I'd love to.

You're spot on about each one teach one.
It still goes back to responsible people. Parents being responsible to INVEST time into their children will go a long ways.

The education system is slanted to the burbs and major universities. Inner city schools and HBCU's get the shaft when it comes to funding. I know because I went to both.

You're dead on with your overall assessment. No arguments here with your logic.

I basically relay to the kids a couple of basic rules (in no particular order).
1. Never use the white man as an excuse.
2. Get an education (so many opportunities exist just because of a piece of paper).
3. Nothing's forever (NOTHING).
4. A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do (basically take on responsibility).
5. Never get a credit card.

My number 1 motto in life: Everything in life is black and white... It's human emotion that creates the grey areas.

Point taken.
 
Point taken.

Here's what pisses me off. I gotta rant.
My cousin (THAT ONE) just got another chick pregnant and he hasn't told his wife yet. Background... He already has 9 kids (1 boy) By 5 different women. He hasn't done shit for most of them and the only one that's lived with him is his only son.

Him & his wife have been going through some thangs and they've been separated off and on (2 week spurts) for the last 6 mos. (His youngest is 11) His wife has been wanting another kid for the last couple of years. He's been against it and they haven't had one.

This fugga goes off and get some other skank pregnant. So what do we have here folks? Another child born out of wedlock without a daddy.

To add to that, this time last year one of my youngest cousins had to take in his youngest daughter because the mother is a crackhead and out there.

IF I'M RIGHT OR WRONG IN MY DEBATES. PLEASE PRACTICE PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

~Currently pissed & disgusted.
 
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Dude we're black men trying to make it in this world. Even if we disagree we can still have mutual respect for each other. We're people... Not some knuckle dragging neanderthals that can't accept/give props when due. Take it in stride... Your family structure is a rarity in the black community. It's highly admirable.

Having said that, I completely agree with everything you've posted. I'm a firm believer of helping others that need it and are attempting to help themselves (If they're young they get a pass on the helping yourself part). Sometimes they just need some attention just as all of us had at some point in our tweener years. I coach multiple sports as well and consider myself a mentor to my younger cousins.

Hell, the cousin (on my moms side) that didn't graduate wife asked me to mentor her sons (one hers & one theirs) because he's not handling his responsibility and still stuck in his '88 year where it's great if you're the gangster or tough guy. The oldest was almost flunking out of school and now he's on his second year of college. I can't take credit for it but I'd like to think our talks and discussions helped him open his eyes to know that anything's achievable.


At the current time, I can't devote more time outside of my family because I have 4 of my own to raise but I'd love to.

You're spot on about each one teach one.
It still goes back to responsible people. Parents being responsible to INVEST time into their children will go a long ways.

The education system is slanted to the burbs and major universities. Inner city schools and HBCU's get the shaft when it comes to funding. I know because I went to both.

You're dead on with your overall assessment. No arguments here with your logic.

I basically relay to the kids a couple of basic rules (in no particular order).
1. Never use the white man as an excuse.
2. Get an education (so many opportunities exist just because of a piece of paper).
3. Nothing's forever (NOTHING).
4. A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do (basically take on responsibility).
5. Never get a credit card.

My number 1 motto in life: Everything in life is black and white... It's human emotion that creates the grey areas.

the problem i have with the finer points of your argument is that it contradicts itself...

its goes like this:

RACISM EXISTS...BUT IF YOU FAIL IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RACISM.

If you have the education and experience and jumped thru all the hoops and hurtles and STILL fail..then at least have the decency to not play the victim even if you have been victimized.

The civil rights movement would have never started with that attitude and thought process.

Meanwhile whitey has no problem blaming illegal immigrants and affirmative action for his failures in the work place.
 
the problem i have with the finer points of your argument is that it contradicts itself...

its goes like this:

RACISM EXISTS...BUT IF YOU FAIL IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RACISM.

If you have the education and experience and jumped thru all the hoops and hurtles and STILL fail..then at least have the decency to not play the victim even if you have been victimized.

The civil rights movement would have never started with that attitude and thought process.

Meanwhile whitey has no problem blaming illegal immigrants and affirmative action for his failures in the work place.

Correct in your assessment.
Because of civil rights struggle you can no longer use excuses if you're an able individual.

Also failure is relative... I'm talking about failures at life. Not within the workplace.

I don't care about whitey and who he blames... We blame whitey too much and that's what I'm sick of... We're the one's lost. Not "whitey".
 
Correct in your assessment.
Because of civil rights struggle you can no longer use excuses if you're an able individual.
so it took people complaining about racism and being victims in order to get the field SOMEWHAT level...but complaining about racism and being the victim in a situation where thats REALLY happening is no longer viable..and that sounds about right to you?

Also failure is relative... I'm talking about failures at life. Not within the workplace.
much of how your success in life depends on the work place..and where you live...which is why whites fought so hard to keep blacks out of unions and higher level management positions for so long. Black Wallstreet didn't fail on its own...Black Wallstreet was BURNED DOWN because whites were jealous of those blacks success.

I don't care about whitey and who he blames... We blame whitey too much and that's what I'm sick of... We're the one's lost. Not "whitey".

you're right..we are lost..BECAUSE of whitey..and while we should work to better ourselves we shouldn't exonerate the people responsible for the predicament and damn sure shouldn't given them a pat on the back for living SOMEWHAT up to something they promised 100 years ago..
 
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so it took people complaining about racism and being victims in order to get the field SOMEWHAT level...but complaining about racism and being the victim in a situation where thats REALLY happening is no longer viable..and that sounds about right to you?


much of how your success in life depends on the work place..and where you live...which is why whites fought so hard to keep blacks out of unions and higher level management positions for so long. Black Wallstreet didn't fail on its own...Black Wallstreet was BURNED DOWN because whites were jealous of those blacks success.



you're right..we are lost..BECAUSE of whitey..and while we should work to better ourselves we shouldn't exonerate the people responsible for the predicament and damn sure shouldn't given them a pat on the back for living SOMEWHAT up to something they promised 100 years ago..

Dude! You just keep on don't you? We're going to have to agree to disagree.

What are you gaining by trying to hold them accountable? NOTHING! Move on and stop blaming thema s you were NOT oppressed by them. If you're treated unfairly I understand you have to handle your business but if you're just throwing... "we were slaves... watch roots... rosewood, etc" Then keep hanging your head on slavery.

Yes we're lost because of slavery... How do you suggest we get "found"? "The man" going to do it for you?

Let the shit go. Take care of your business and move on.
You're really knit picking...
 
Dude! You just keep on don't you? We're going to have to agree to disagree.

What are you gaining by trying to hold them accountable? NOTHING! Move on and stop blaming thema s you were NOT oppressed by them. If you're treated unfairly I understand you have to handle your business but if you're just throwing... "we were slaves... watch roots... rosewood, etc" Then keep hanging your head on slavery.

Yes we're lost because of slavery... How do you suggest we get "found"? "The man" going to do it for you?

Let the shit go. Take care of your business and move on.
You're really knit picking...

its not nitpicking...when you have to have or change legislation so minorities can live where they want TODAY (as you stated earlier)..thats a sign of oppression..

When blacks face unfair judicial practices thats a sign of oppression.

When minorities on average earn less than white males for doing the same job thats a sign of oppression.

When blacks are X times more likely to be profiled even when whites are X time morely likely to be actually doing something criminal..thats a sign of oppression.

When you agree that whites will not allow a truly level playing field because they want to keep power to themselves...THATS A SIGN OF OPPRESSION!!!!

Just because you don't see whipping posts or signs that read WHITES ONLY doesn't mean the shit is over...


and you hold them accountable by bringing those facts to light and you keep hammering it home until it changes..
 
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