Thought Experiment: what would happen if Black Americans boycotted the two party system for ten years?

[The Catcher In The Rye]

Would the Democratic Party be forced to respect and cater to the Black vote? Or would the GOP just dominate for ten years and set Black people further back?

Healthcare is my highest priority. One party wants to make it accessible to all and one wants to make it as worthless and expensive as possible. When dems piss me off, voting GOP is not an option as they are openly trying to legislate discrimination and criminalize our history. I care about clean air, clean water, environmental protections. Living wages. One party wants to solve those issues and one wants to pretend they don't exist. It's a clear choice.

As it is, the Democratic Party does not support universal healthcare, does not prioritize police reform and in fact champions increased policing, does not care about the effects of environmental racism, does not even support a $15 minimum wage and generally caters to “swing voters” aka EVERYONE EXCEPT BLACK PEOPLE, who can be safely taken for granted.

In ten years, voting GOP would still not be an option but Dems would see that Black America has another option— Not voting for them, either by not voting or voting third party. Maybe in 20 years that will have led to better representation and make the ten years a worthwhile investment?

 

[Camille]

Would the Democratic Party be forced to respect and cater to the Black vote? Or would the GOP just dominate for ten years and set Black people further back?



As it is, the Democratic Party does not support universal healthcare, does not prioritize police reform and in fact champions increased policing, does not care about the effects of environmental racism, does not even support a $15 minimum wage and generally caters to “swing voters” aka EVERYONE EXCEPT BLACK PEOPLE, who can be safely taken for granted.

In ten years, voting GOP would still not be an option but Dems would see that Black America has another option— Not voting for them, either by not voting or voting third party. Maybe in 20 years that will have led to better representation and make the ten years a worthwhile investment?

A lot of your premise is wrong. I don't have time for this now. Suffice it to say all of America would be a Florida/Texas combo.

 

[xfactor]

The boycott would only last 4 years at longest but likely only survive 2 years before either party caves in and starts to solicit the vote with specific legislation.

Unfortunately there are too many cowards and pro-whites in the so-called black community for this to happen anytime soon but most of them are dying off.

 

[The Catcher In The Rye]

A of of your premise is wrong. I don't have time for this now. Suffice it to say all of America would be a Florida/Texas combo.

In the short term, yes.

But MAGA happened with us playing in the two-party system and Trump is 50/50 to be elected again after leading an insurrection and facing nearly 100 felony charges.

So I don’t think supporting status quo Democrats or accepting the system as it is precludes or saves us from all of America under a Florida/Texas model.

 

[yureeka9]

That's a really good question. I'm looking forward to seeing how the board answers. My answer remains the same. Fuck em both. Concentrate your energy and resources on building a life that can withstand the policies of either party. In the end, that's the smartest move because the amount of political power allocated to each citizen will never change your life.

 

[knightmelodic]

You'd have a slew of latino politicians all of a sudden and the focus would shift dramatically to courting the latino vote.

As it stands now, the Black vote offsets the latino vote and the latino can't unite due to internecine squabbles (which are engineered, but that's another story). Take away the Black vote and they'd soon see their 20+% carries a lot of weight.

 

[WattDogs]

Walking away from the two-party system is foolish. All it does is allow the votes we once used to hinder GOP progress to disappear, which would turn a number of places fully Republican.

What we should do is create a specific agenda cater towards black people, create PACs for that said agenda, then create our own party locally, using those PACs to finance them. Once you have a number of cities following our agenda (3-5 years), then you start state-wide. Maybe 10 years later, go for the presidency.

The problem is...all of this will take time. And unfortunately, we as black people have a hard time planning ahead & planning for the future.

 

[Camille]

In the short term, yes.

But MAGA happened with us playing in the two-party system and Trump is 50/50 to be elected again after leading an insurrection and facing nearly 100 felony charges.

So I don’t think supporting status quo Democrats or accepting the system as it is precludes or saves us from all of America under a Florida/Texas model.

MAGA took over because white liberal dems were mad at Obama and sat out. It took a decade to get control of congress again. Trump happened because of mostly white liberals and a handful of black folks either sitting out or casting protest votes.

I've been running my mouth about the importance of voting for two days now. Tag someone else like @gene cisco

 

[respiration]

MAGA took over because white liberal dems were mad at Obama and sat out. It took a decade to get control of congress again. Trump happened because of mostly white liberals and a handful of black folks either sitting out or casting protest votes.

I've been running my mouth about the importance of voting for two days now. Tag someone else like @gene cisco

And because of massive voter fraud and suppression on the part of the Republican establishment.

 

[Camille]

And because of massive voter fraud and suppression on the part of the Republican establishment.

Yep. Tens of thousands purged or denied ballots. Not to mention the closing of dmvs in black area's so voters couldn't get the ID required without driving long distances to places where they kept changing operating hours. I remember.

 

[The Catcher In The Rye]

MAGA took over because white liberal dems were mad at Obama and sat out. It took a decade to get control of congress again. Trump happened because of mostly white liberals and a handful of black folks either sitting out or casting protest votes.

Only conservative democrats get to blow an election and then blame their intraparty opponents for it. Hillary Clinton was the worst possible nominee, ran a bad campaign and she and her supporters blame everyone else for it- Russian twitter accounts, Bernie supporters, the Green Party, the FBI director- and refuse to take any accountability. #StillWithHer is the most annoying cult of victimhood in politics.

Supporters of the establishment fail to comprehend that they are not entitled to anyone’s votes. Those progressive dissenters you disdain so much are the reason Biden has been as progressive as he is, because he recognizes the power of that voting bloc. Which, to move past relitigation of 2016 and to the present point, is precisely the opposite of how they have looked at black voters until recently, when there have been enough defectors to make them worry.

 

[Camille]

Only conservative democrats get to blow an election and then blame their intraparty opponents for it. Hillary Clinton was the worst possible nominee, ran a bad campaign and she and her supporters blame everyone else for it- Russian twitter accounts, Bernie supporters, the Green Party, the FBI director- and refuse to take any accountability. #StillWithHer is the most annoying cult of victimhood in politics.

Supporters of the establishment fail to comprehend that they are not entitled to anyone’s votes. Those progressive dissenters you disdain so much are the reason Biden has been as progressive as he is, because he recognizes the power of that voting bloc. Which, to move past relitigation of 2016 and to the present point, is precisely the opposite of how they have looked at black voters until recently, when there have been enough defectors to make them worry.

I don't agree, but regardless I hope it was worth Roe, affirmative action, and a SCOTUS ruling stating evidence of innocence is not reason enough to through out convictions that land people on death row.

 

[Big Tex]

Only conservative democrats get to blow an election and then blame their intraparty opponents for it. Hillary Clinton was the worst possible nominee, ran a bad campaign and she and her supporters blame everyone else for it- Russian twitter accounts, Bernie supporters, the Green Party, the FBI director- and refuse to take any accountability. #StillWithHer is the most annoying cult of victimhood in politics.

Supporters of the establishment fail to comprehend that they are not entitled to anyone’s votes. Those progressive dissenters you disdain so much are the reason Biden has been as progressive as he is, because he recognizes the power of that voting bloc. Which, to move past relitigation of 2016 and to the present point, is precisely the opposite of how they have looked at black voters until recently, when there have been enough defectors to make them worry.

Bernie supporters to this day keep saying he was robbed.

Also, if Bernard had won the nomination and Hillary voters sat out the general and he lost, you would NOT be blaming Bernard not progressives. You would be calling those Dems neoliberal shills.

 

[The Catcher In The Rye]

I don't agree, but regardless I hope it was worth Roe, affirmative action, and a SCOTUS ruling stating evidence of innocence is not reason enough to through out convictions that land people on death row.

It’s a shame Democrats didn’t nominate a viable candidate and that their loss allowed those things to happen.

It seems increasingly likely that a bad 2024 nominee could lead to a repeat of that outcome. Is it so bad to ask, in a system where two parties regularly trade control, if we should leverage the power we have to actually influence the one option we have upon it regaining control?

 

[Big Tex]

Thought experiment. What if the people that don't want to vote, just don't vote and stop bothering everyone else with their decision.

 

[The Catcher In The Rye]

Bernie supporters to this day keep saying he was robbed.

Also, if Bernard had won the nomination and Hillary voters sat out the general and he lost, you would NOT be blaming Bernard not progressives. You would be calling those Dems neoliberal shills.

I don’t find this to be an interesting conversation in 2023 so I’m not going to engage with this off-topic hypothetical.

 

[Big Tex]

It’s a shame Democrats didn’t nominate a viable candidate and that their loss allowed those things to happen.

It seems increasingly likely that a bad 2024 nominee could lead to a repeat of that outcome. Is it so bad to ask, in a system where two parties regularly trade control, if we should leverage the power we have to actually influence the one option we have upon it regaining control?

Bernard should have dropped out and only let realistic candidates run.

 

[Big Tex]

I don’t find this to be an interesting conversation in 2023 so I’m not going to engage with this off-topic hypothetical.

Progressives are not entitled to anyone's votes.

 

[The Catcher In The Rye]

Thought experiment. What if the people that don't want to vote, just don't vote and stop bothering everyone else with their decision.

You on your period?

If you don’t want anyone to try to influence your thoughts, it sounds like politics is not your thing.

This is political discourse, as valid as pro-Democrat or pro-Republican topics.

 

[Big Tex]

You on your period?

If you don’t want anyone to try to influence your thoughts, it sounds like politics is not your thing.

This is political discourse, as valid as pro-Democrat or pro-Republican topics.

If you don't want discourse, then don't engage in discourse.

Or are you going to cry to HNIC to try to get him to ban posting porn on a porn board again?

 

[Soul On Ice]

The way the cowardly voteps tell it, "wEdz bE sLAveZ AgAInZ" if we made these people earn our votes lol

 

[The Catcher In The Rye]

If you don't want discourse, then don't engage in discourse.

Or are you going to cry to HNIC to try to get him to ban posting porn on a porn board again?

You’re too dumb for discourse. You come in here on the rampage with your tired Bernie hatred and condemnation of people who “don’t want to vote,” not even realizing that “boycotting the two-party system” is not the same as not voting and not at all what was advocated.

 

[Pack Rat]

Imagine having the chance to confront the elusiveness of Black voting power after four centuries of lynchings, massacres, poll taxes, grandfather clauses, gerrymandering, voter ID laws, armed poll watchers, and stopping the steal. However, you say: "Instead of blaming the terrorists, vote-suppressors, gerrymandering, insurrectionists, and white people who can easily maintain their political power by remaining silent,"

“Nah, Black people are doing it wrong.” Just stop voting.......FOH!

 

[Big Tex]

You’re too dumb for discourse. You come in here on the rampage with your tired Bernie hatred and condemnation of people who “don’t want to vote,” not even realizing that “boycotting the two-party system” is not the same as not voting and not at all what was advocated.

If only you were 10% as intelligent as you think you are. You lead with your hatred of centrist Dems, but that's fine. You attack Hillary and her voters, but that's also fine. Point out Bernard's faults and you go straight to pearl clutching.

How about letting people vote the way they want?

It's constantly people that have their agendas rejected by voters that want everyone else to pass their agenda.

How about progressives finally accept that the vast majority of people do not want their solutions nor them in power. Start there, figure out why voters reject you constantly and figure out how to change so that you can win more elections.

Instead, you'll do what you always do. Just say everyone that disagrees with you is "too dumb" to understand your brilliance - and continue losing elections.

 

[Big Tex]

Imagine having the chance to confront the elusiveness of Black voting power after four centuries of lynchings, massacres, poll taxes, grandfather clauses, gerrymandering, voter ID laws, armed poll watchers, and stopping the steal. However, you say: "Instead of blaming the terrorists, vote-suppressors, gerrymandering, insurrectionists, and white people who can easily maintain their political power by remaining silent,"

“Nah, Black people are doing it wrong.” Just stop voting.......FOH!

You're about to be accused of being "too dumb" lmao.

 

[The Catcher In The Rye]

Imagine having the chance to confront the elusiveness of Black voting power after four centuries of lynchings, massacres, poll taxes, grandfather clauses, gerrymandering, voter ID laws, armed poll watchers, and stopping the steal. However, you say: "Instead of blaming the terrorists, vote-suppressors, gerrymandering, insurrectionists, and white people who can easily maintain their political power by remaining silent,"

“Nah, Black people are doing it wrong.” Just stop voting.......FOH!

This isn’t about blaming, it’s about DOING. Your list of causes and groups to condemn doesn’t have much to do with building power over the next few decades, the topic here.

Also, I did not say Black people are doing it wrong. In fact, I did the exact opposite in citing increasing separation from one party ownership.

Those progressive dissenters you disdain so much are the reason Biden has been as progressive as he is, because he recognizes the power of that voting bloc. Which, to move past relitigation of 2016 and to the present point, is precisely the opposite of how they have looked at black voters until recently, when there have been enough defectors to make them worry.

 

[The Catcher In The Rye]

Black Political Power & Defeating Republicans in 2024: Dems tap Obama for crucial redistricting push

If you care about black political power in the US, you should be keeping an eye on the South: https://www.bgol.us/forum/threads/should-black-americans-migrate-to-the-south-to-consolidate-political-power.1122353/ If you care about representation in the South or the 2024 election, you should...

www.bgol.us

 

[Camille]

You’re too dumb for discourse. You come in here on the rampage with your tired Bernie hatred and condemnation of people who “don’t want to vote,” not even realizing that “boycotting the two-party system” is not the same as not voting and not at all what was advocated.

In this scenario you envision of black folks boycotting the two-party system, are we doing it alone or in conjunction with others? Explain how you see this playing out.

 

[Big Tex]

In this scenario you envision of black folks boycotting the two-party system, are we doing it alone or in conjunction with others? Explain how you see this playing out.

OP would call off the boycott tomorrow is the majority of Black people voted far left. He would immediately switch to voter solidarity with the progressive caucus.

 

[Big Tex]

OP, does that mean you are calling for Black people not to vote for AOC?

 

[tallblacknyc]

That's a really good question. I'm looking forward to seeing how the board answers. My answer remains the same. Fuck em both. Concentrate your energy and resources on building a life that can withstand the policies of either party. In the end, that's the smartest move because the amount of political power allocated to each citizen will never change your life.

The best answer that will be given..thread/

 

[samh32]

Would the Democratic Party be forced to respect and cater to the Black vote? Or would the GOP just dominate for ten years and set Black people further back?



As it is, the Democratic Party does not support universal healthcare, does not prioritize police reform and in fact champions increased policing, does not care about the effects of environmental racism, does not even support a $15 minimum wage and generally caters to “swing voters” aka EVERYONE EXCEPT BLACK PEOPLE, who can be safely taken for granted.

In ten years, voting GOP would still not be an option but Dems would see that Black America has another option— Not voting for them, either by not voting or voting third party. Maybe in 20 years that will have led to better representation and make the ten years a worthwhile investment?

George Wallace, Ross Perot, Pat Buchanan, Ralph Nader, and Robert F Kennedy Jr. are/were third party candidates… Which one would you have preferred?

 

[The Catcher In The Rye]

George Wallace, Ross Perot, Pat Buchanan, Ralph Nader, and Robert F Kennedy Jr. are/were third party candidates… Which one would you have preferred?

Cornel West: Running for President 2024

www.bgol.us

 

[samh32]

Cornel West: Running for President 2024

www.bgol.us

What's points on Cornell West platform/message that catches your attention the most?

 

[The Catcher In The Rye]

In this scenario you envision of black folks boycotting the two-party system, are we doing it alone or in conjunction with others? Explain how you see this playing out.

Coalition building is a good thought but this thought experiment is centered on Black Americans. 100% non-participation in Democratic or Republican politics from 2024-2033. Every loss the Democrats suffer, they can look at Green Party votes, other third party votes and non-participants and see their only hope for resurrection.

Under that scenario, what happens in 2034 and the decade or so after?

That’s the question.