My fellow BGOL family, how do you feel about carrying a concealed weapon?
- Thread starter Andros the magician
- Start date
That's was our life lil man. You just in the room listening to stories you allowed to hear.
That why you go to the range and become proficient with your
weapon same as we practice with martial arts.
There are all kinds of "what ifs" here.
IF...He has a shot gun all he has to do is get close like mace or pepper spray
I hear what you're trying to say ....But I'll keep my Gun and take my chances.
Imma either run or shoot my shot. But I wont just lay down and die hoping
that he misses me while I spray him with a chemical that may or may not work.
I've seen those things have an effect and I've seen many where it hasn't.
I've been with NYPD, spray crazy mofo's, big 300lb dudes rushing at us all kinds of shit. No way I think them things or tasers are effective.
They should use them to stun a person. Yes.
They will hopefully stop what they doing and say hmm, this is a cop, I don't want to get shot next.
BUT, you? You think that dude coming at you will stop. It's a chance you gonna have to take. If he's that far away from me, I'm not using "deadly force". Not sure if some of you know or understand what force is in the law books.
You have to meet force with equal force or you will be going to jail.
How is that person threatening you from a distance of 30 ft away at the grocery store. You can't just pepper spray them cause they want to fight and are threatening you.
If they have a gun pointed at you then you meet it with equal force. Not pepper spray.
thanks for the engagement. Here is why I was bringing this up in the first place. Again, I am getting the feeling this may become the norm. Now of course if folks are allowed to carry armor piercing rounds, then this whole conversation is moot.
Buffalo is latest mass shooting by gunman wearing body armor
At least 21 mass shooters over the last four decades have worn some kind of body armor — and the majority of those were within the last 10 years, according to a database.
apnews.com
By LINDSAY WHITEHURST, GENE JOHNSON and JAMES ANDERSON
May 26, 2022
When a shooter attacked a supermarket in Buffalo, New York, on May 14, its security guard tried to stop him. At least one of his shots hit the gunman, but it didn’t stop the deadly rampage because the gunman was wearing body armor.
Ten Black people died in the racist massacre, including security guard Aaron Salter, a retired Buffalo police officer hailed as a hero. It’s the latest mass shooting in which the gunman apparently came prepared for anyone trying to stop him with a gun.
At least 21 mass shooters over the last four decades have worn some kind of body armor — and the majority of those were within the last 10 years, according to a database maintained by The Violence Project, a nonpartisan research group that tracks gun violence.
Among them: A massacre that killed 12 people and injured dozens more at a crowded movie theater in Aurora, Colorado, in 2012, and another in nearby Boulder that left 10 people dead at a supermarket last year. The shooter in Texas’s deadliest mass slaying was also wearing protective gear when he killed more than two dozen people at a church in 2017, as was a radicalized Islamic couple who carried out a terror attack in San Bernardino, California, in 2015.
“They’re demonstrating this intent that, ‘I want to absolutely kill or hurt as many people as I possibly can before I just can’t fight anymore,’” said Chris Burbank, the former police chief in Salt Lake City who’s now with the Center for Policing Equity.
The Violence Project database doesn’t show a clear correlation with body armor and the number of victims. But such gear can enable attackers to shoot longer and is a symbolic way to adhere to societal expectations of what a mass shooting looks like, said James Densley, a criminal justice professor at Metro State University in Minnesota who co-founded The Violence Project.
“A mass shooting is intended to be a final act — you don’t get away with a mass shooting,” Densley said. “So it’s meant to be a big spectacle, and it’s meant to have people pay attention and to notice it. One of the ways you do that is you dress up pretending you’re in the military.”
Police officers are seeing body armor in other types of investigations, like narcotics cases, said former Miami Police Chief Jorge Colina. Body armor is relatively easy to get, especially the soft body armor similar to the bulletproof vests regularly worn by police officers that are effective against handguns.
Getting body armor isn’t difficult under U.S. laws. Federal law prohibits certain violent felons from buying body armor, but other than that there are few restrictions on purchasing it. Only one state blocks it from being ordered online and shipped to homes: Connecticut, which requires a face-to-face purchase.
Colina would like to see more states consider stricter rules.
“I don’t think it’s something that is really thought about too much, but we’ve seen it many times and we’ve seen it here in south Florida,” Colina said. “Somebody commits a crime wearing body armor, and it’s terrifying. The idea that you may not be able to stop them if you had to use deadly force is terrifying.”
Still, body armor itself isn’t inherently dangerous and is in fact aimed at protection — something on the minds of many people amid a spike in gun violence in the U.S., Burbank said. And it’s unclear what effective body armor regulation would even look like, given the difficulty of regulating the weapons that are used in the shootings.
“Most of those same laws apply to guns,” Burbank said. “Does that prohibit anyone in this nation from having access to a firearm?”
Body armor hasn’t been worn in the majority of mass shootings, said James Alan Fox, a criminologist at Northeastern University who has been tracking mass killings back to 2006 along with The Associated Press and USA Today.
But it does indicate a level of planning. Body armor was mentioned more than a dozen times in the online writings attributed to the white suspect in the Buffalo shooting, Payton Gendron, who was arrested at the supermarket and has pleaded not guilty to murder.
The Violence Project database also doesn’t include slayings that don’t meet the definition of a mass shooting because fewer than four people were killed.
In one such shooting at Philadelphia’s Thomas Jefferson University Hospital last October, a nursing assistant wearing blue scrubs and a ballistics vest killed a co-worker and then wounded two police officers before being shot by police and taken into custody. In another, this month in Round Rock, Texas, a 31-year-old Marine veteran wounded a neighbor before engaging in a shootout with law enforcement, after which he was found dead, wearing body armor.
In contrast to U.S. laws, four Canadian provinces have enacted severe restrictions on the possession of body armor — Alberta, British Columbia, Manitoba and Nova Scotia. Residents must obtain permits to possess body armor, including ballistic vests, and must undergo background checks before getting those permits, which must be renewed on an annual or biannual basis. Violators face hefty fines and jail time.
Alberta adopted its law in 2012 because of spiraling gang violence in which gang members wore vests while committing crimes such as drive-by shootings and even sported them in public, said Ian Roddick, a spokesman with the province’s Ministry of Justice and Solicitor General.
Applicants must have no criminal record. Permits generally are granted to those whose jobs, such as security guards, require protection.
Some Australian territories also restrict body armor possession.
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Associated Press writer Susan Haigh in Hartford, Connecticut, contributed to this report.
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This story was first published on May 18, 2022. It was updated on May 26, 2022, to correct that the shooter in a 2021 Philadelphia case was not killed, but was shot by police and taken into custody. It was also updated on May 26, 2022, to clarify that federal law prohibits certain violent felons from buying body armor.
Armor piercing bullets are legal where I am. It's illegal in some states? I'm not aware.
I have a few "friends" that is all they carry.
I use regular bullets for the range and when I carry, I have hollow points. But you can buy armor piercing rounds but some hollow points can go thru some armor.
I'm still stuck in the 80's/90's with the whole "cop killa ammo" ban...lol. I wasn't sure if the rounds are now legal or legal in a majority of states.
Allowed ?That's was our life lil man. You just in the room listening to stories you allowed to hear.
im Outstanding
my cleats still have have SPIKES on the field.
I been on this earth for almost 40 years.
not 1 moment have I been sked OR have my nose open.
u do know u NE Ohio niggas are southern Michigan cats
What are the chances of you getting shot just doing regular stuff vs being in the wrong place, with the wrong people, doingbthe wrong things, etc...?
Lets be real. Going to the range and practicing is one thing. Being in an actual situation where someone is shooting at you is another thing. People train and freeze up in the actual situation.
Your reaction time is different. Your eye sight is different.
You adrenaline is up, your hands/body may be shaking, etc.....
I'm definitely not one to lay down but it's not as simple as going to the range practicing and now you going to hit the bullseye.
I'm strapped everywhere I go. The incident in buffaloe makes me want to keep an AR in the trunk.
So if you been out there like that, you were hot as fuck when you were young. Cats you rolled with were too, right? All them licks you hit are victims of statute of limitations. Or were you hot as fuck rolling with squares. You tell one story, but act like shit works the other way like some cat who never was out here.
And that's real talk.
I'm a fairly new gun owner... in NJ, so carrying is a no no outside of transporting... at least unless and until the scotus does what some think they will.
Personally, unless this fucked up country takes the next step into fuckedupidness(yes, I just created that word) I would not want to carry, open, or concealed. ....a bullet got no heart, and I don't want to be walking around with the ability to send one where I didn't intend to go if I for some reason was in a situation where I thought I needed to fire (missing a target, going thru, ricochets). Not judging those who do carry, but I know my luck. I even made a deal with myself....something goes bump in the night, I'm going downstairs with my fists or at most, my baton or a knife)
Personally, unless this fucked up country takes the next step into fuckedupidness(yes, I just created that word) I would not want to carry, open, or concealed. ....a bullet got no heart, and I don't want to be walking around with the ability to send one where I didn't intend to go if I for some reason was in a situation where I thought I needed to fire (missing a target, going thru, ricochets). Not judging those who do carry, but I know my luck. I even made a deal with myself....something goes bump in the night, I'm going downstairs with my fists or at most, my baton or a knife)
Dont you see all this shit going on out here?
You need a laser bullet. You can practice firing all over your house all day. Other than going to the range this will get your trigger pull and hand eye coordination on point. Took my accuracy to the next level.
I printed bullseye targets from online but then now I just mostly aimed at tiny things like the screws on my light switches.
This is 9mm but they come in all sizes. Just look at the reviews.
Pink Rhino - 9mm Laser Bullet - Dry Fire Trainer-Integrated Snap Cap for Dry Fire Training https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07K34W265/?tag=vp314-20
This is good info.
I always carry when I have to catch the train to center city or when I'm on my motorcycle. Take some shooting classes. Just remember the rule: Don't be a hero. You aren't John Wick. All those shootout fantasies people have are bullshit.
Good guys with guns the republican slogan
www.nbcnews.com
2014
"When two killers ambushed a pair of Las Vegas police officers Sunday and vowed to gun down others, an unassuming man jumped into the line of fire to try to stop the violence — an act of bravery that cost him his life.
Joseph Robert Wilcox, 31, was at Walmart with a friend returning a modem when a gun-toting couple who had just murdered two police officers at a pizza shop came into the store. Instead of running away, Wilcox, told his friend he was going to confront the one gunman he could see.
Wilcox pulled out the handgun for which he had a concealed weapons permit but that his family says he rarely carried. He approached Jerad Miller, a 31-year-old ex-convict who investigators say walked into Walmart, fired off one round, and told shoppers, "This is a revolution." His wife, Amanda Miller, 22, was trailing behind, authorities said.
"[Wilcox] immediately and heroically moved towards the position of Jerad Miller," Las Vegas Assistant Sheriff Kevin McMahill said at a briefing Monday. "As soon as he began to confront Jerad Miller with his firearm, Amanda Miller removed her firearm and shot him one time in the ribs area, where he immediately collapsed."
The final bloodshed of the day came after police officers arrived and exchanged gunfire with the suspects, who McMahill said had taken guns and ammunition from the belts of the officers they shot dead at the nearby CiCi's Pizza before they charged into Walmart. Both suspects were injured during the gunfight before Amanda Miller fired several rounds at Jerad, then ending her own life with a single gunshot."
Cost of Bravery: Vegas Bystander Died Trying to Stop Rampage
When a rampage shattered the calm of Sunday morning in Las Vegas, an unassuming man made a decision that would pause the violence, but end his life.
www.nbcnews.com
"When two killers ambushed a pair of Las Vegas police officers Sunday and vowed to gun down others, an unassuming man jumped into the line of fire to try to stop the violence — an act of bravery that cost him his life.
Joseph Robert Wilcox, 31, was at Walmart with a friend returning a modem when a gun-toting couple who had just murdered two police officers at a pizza shop came into the store. Instead of running away, Wilcox, told his friend he was going to confront the one gunman he could see.
Wilcox pulled out the handgun for which he had a concealed weapons permit but that his family says he rarely carried. He approached Jerad Miller, a 31-year-old ex-convict who investigators say walked into Walmart, fired off one round, and told shoppers, "This is a revolution." His wife, Amanda Miller, 22, was trailing behind, authorities said.
"[Wilcox] immediately and heroically moved towards the position of Jerad Miller," Las Vegas Assistant Sheriff Kevin McMahill said at a briefing Monday. "As soon as he began to confront Jerad Miller with his firearm, Amanda Miller removed her firearm and shot him one time in the ribs area, where he immediately collapsed."
The final bloodshed of the day came after police officers arrived and exchanged gunfire with the suspects, who McMahill said had taken guns and ammunition from the belts of the officers they shot dead at the nearby CiCi's Pizza before they charged into Walmart. Both suspects were injured during the gunfight before Amanda Miller fired several rounds at Jerad, then ending her own life with a single gunshot."
2021
"Police are hailing a man who shot and killed a gunman and was then shot and killed by police as a hero.
John Hurley, 40, drew a handgun and shot and killed Ronald Troyke last Monday in Arvada, Colo., The Guardian reported. Troyke, 59, was reportedly on the move to kill police officers, having already shot and killed Officer Gordon Beesley.
After shooting Beesley, Troyke then armed himself with an AR-15. That’s when Hurley saw Troyke and shot and killed him.
What followed next was unfortunate for the town’s hero.
Hurley picked up Troyke’s weapon, when officers arrived at the scene and shot him mistakenly."
“A responding Arvada officer encountered Mr Hurley, who was holding a rifle. And our officer shot him,” Arvada police chief, Link Strate, said.
Strate called the situation “tragic.”
I can't imagine being scared of guns and leaving it up to chance or thinkin' somebody else gon' protect me.
Niggas think bear spray/mace is enough nowadays??? Bless y'all hearts. What's next??? A katana???
When was it ever?
Well, I approach this from two perspectives: 1) the necessity to protect yourself and family, 2) the 2A right to bear arms.
The real truth and reality is the 2A was originally written to allow states to officially recognize citizen soldiers. It was not meant for every Tom, Dick, and Harry to have a gun, nor possess weaponry equal to military use. It was intended to allow trained, and maintained citizens to fight in the standing Army in defense of the nation from foreign invaders.
The narrative or purpose of the 2A literally changed after the civil war. White people: politicians, and business owners; sought to remove the rights of Blacks owning guns, for fear that blacks will rise to enslave whites or have the power to fight back. This same fear is 100% the absolute driving factor of why the 2A has not been repealed. We are no longer under the threat of a British armada sailing across the Atlantic to loot and pillage. We have upwards of 1.5 million active duty military, and 4-500,000 reservists, so citizens don’t need to participate in any localized war, so why would everyday citizens need military weapons or guns other than hunting rifles and shotguns?
Fear of being exposed is why they (white republicans) don’t want thorough background checks. Imagine if the FBI investigated your background, social media, forums, websites that your name or email is associated to, only to discover you are a current member of a racist hate group, you’ve posted racist comments and threats, in which the FBI denies your ability to own a gun? This fear of black and brown is the main reason why b&b people are quick to be given felony charges for crimes white people are given petty slaps on wrists for.
If you notice, every time there are talks about gun reform or legislation, white republicans and politicians, say gun laws only affect “law abiding” citizens, and the “criminals” don’t care about gun laws. Ask yourself “who and where are all these criminals, lurking in the shadows waiting to take your land, rape your wives, sell your kids”. “Criminals” is a code word for blacks, aka freed slaves.
I say all of that to say this: black people should absolutely take advantage of that 2A right to keep and bear arms. Should you carry a gun?, YES AT ALL TIMES PERMITTED!! Get a gun, get training, and stay training with it.
Unfortunately, our culture likes to promote self-hate, and encourages violence praising murders and drug dealing vs being the creators of art, math, astronomy, geometry, and music.
I’m an Army vet, Master Mason, Firearms Instructor, gun owner, and carry in the DMV all day EVERYDAY!! There’s no shortage of gun toting, thugnificient, assholes around here…don’t be a victim.
The real truth and reality is the 2A was originally written to allow states to officially recognize citizen soldiers. It was not meant for every Tom, Dick, and Harry to have a gun, nor possess weaponry equal to military use. It was intended to allow trained, and maintained citizens to fight in the standing Army in defense of the nation from foreign invaders.
The narrative or purpose of the 2A literally changed after the civil war. White people: politicians, and business owners; sought to remove the rights of Blacks owning guns, for fear that blacks will rise to enslave whites or have the power to fight back. This same fear is 100% the absolute driving factor of why the 2A has not been repealed. We are no longer under the threat of a British armada sailing across the Atlantic to loot and pillage. We have upwards of 1.5 million active duty military, and 4-500,000 reservists, so citizens don’t need to participate in any localized war, so why would everyday citizens need military weapons or guns other than hunting rifles and shotguns?
Fear of being exposed is why they (white republicans) don’t want thorough background checks. Imagine if the FBI investigated your background, social media, forums, websites that your name or email is associated to, only to discover you are a current member of a racist hate group, you’ve posted racist comments and threats, in which the FBI denies your ability to own a gun? This fear of black and brown is the main reason why b&b people are quick to be given felony charges for crimes white people are given petty slaps on wrists for.
If you notice, every time there are talks about gun reform or legislation, white republicans and politicians, say gun laws only affect “law abiding” citizens, and the “criminals” don’t care about gun laws. Ask yourself “who and where are all these criminals, lurking in the shadows waiting to take your land, rape your wives, sell your kids”. “Criminals” is a code word for blacks, aka freed slaves.
I say all of that to say this: black people should absolutely take advantage of that 2A right to keep and bear arms. Should you carry a gun?, YES AT ALL TIMES PERMITTED!! Get a gun, get training, and stay training with it.
Unfortunately, our culture likes to promote self-hate, and encourages violence praising murders and drug dealing vs being the creators of art, math, astronomy, geometry, and music.
I’m an Army vet, Master Mason, Firearms Instructor, gun owner, and carry in the DMV all day EVERYDAY!! There’s no shortage of gun toting, thugnificient, assholes around here…don’t be a victim.
Actually pepper ball guns can be more effective than a real gun in certain situations. In my self-defense classes for women, I recommend always carrying the Byrna pepper ball gun as a backup when traveling at night or out and about. Too many black people attend my shooting classes thinking and claiming they can shoot; get to the range and can’t hit target at 10yrds. The Byrna pistol is gas operated and can be rapidly fired placing 7-8 pepper balls in a 8 inch area at 10yrds easily. 1 hit will generally disrupt or stop an individual. Most people with guns can’t manage the recoil, and fail to have proper grip, cause they lack training and didn’t research before buying their $400 el’chepo Glock.
According to the FBI data the average shoot out it 3 shots each.
I think the statement infer
you must not live in the US, as armor piercing bullets are federally banned (1968) against the sale, manufacture, use, or transfer to or from civilians, per Per 18 United States Code, § 921(a)(17)(B). Source: ATF, FBI, NFTA, Public Law 99-408 . Green tip steel core .223 ammunition or copy cats are not AP. Military 5.56 AP is only available to military. M855 is the military 5.56 round available to civilians, but M855A1 (AP) is prohibited.
You gonna tell a burglar OK we only using 3 shots, you ready, go!
That's old info. Do your research.
There is no prohibition on ammo, there was a restriction on manufacturing but you can always possess. Ammo may not be called "ammo piercing" but there are levels to metal that bullets will go thru. Kevlar vests were later introduced and they have better stopping force than metal plates of past armor.
Armor Piercing Pistol Ammo?
This is a guest post by Andrew Betts You might think that armor piercing ammunition is illegal for private citizens to own, but in reality, the prohibitions on armor piercing ammunition are all on the manufacturing and sale of it. There is actually no reason that civilians cannot possess AP...
homedefensegun.net
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Great question. I reside in Chicago and every summer that I can remember the amount of gun violence has increased. Fools are carjacking at an alarming rate all over the city. I believe in home protection and recently grabbed my CC because it’s been drilled in my head to have it then not have it and need it. It’s a jungle out here brothers. Everyone has a gun so at least even out the playing field. Be careful and stay aware.
I hate that America is such a violent country. Because no matter what we decide to do as men. Our women, children and old people have to be out here in this chaos. So on a personal level I totally believe the right to defend yourself is fundamental to any other rights. However on the macro level having less guns in our country would mean less people will be killed by guns and that's a fact.
The brainwash that America put on us is that when we feel unsafe we get a gun. But the gun in someone else hands is why we feel unsafe. So now we have the gun they feel unsafe. It's the wild west. If everyone felt the chance of someone else having a gun was slim they wouldn't feel the need to carry one. But because we live in such a violent society with sooooo many guns it feels like we need them for safety. It's wack as hell to me.
The brainwash that America put on us is that when we feel unsafe we get a gun. But the gun in someone else hands is why we feel unsafe. So now we have the gun they feel unsafe. It's the wild west. If everyone felt the chance of someone else having a gun was slim they wouldn't feel the need to carry one. But because we live in such a violent society with sooooo many guns it feels like we need them for safety. It's wack as hell to me.
No need to research, in my line of work I speak to all 3 letter agencies on the daily. I spoke about this about two weeks ago ref. an uptick in the purchasing of 5.56, and ammo being used in various shootings. The position on AP handgun ammo has not changed and is in fact illegal. Yes, woven Kevlar, plated Kevlar, Gen III, etc are all “bullet resistant” and certain types of metals can eventually crater or pierce, but that’s not discussion. AP handgun ammunition is illegal in all 50 states, rifle ammo is not.You gonna tell a burglar OK we only using 3 shots, you ready, go!
That's old info. Do your research.
There is no prohibition on ammo, there was a restriction on manufacturing but you can always possess. Ammo may not be called "ammo piercing" but there are levels to metal that bullets will go thru. Kevlar vests were later introduced and they have better stopping force than metal plates of past armor.
Armor Piercing Pistol Ammo?
This is a guest post by Andrew Betts You might think that armor piercing ammunition is illegal for private citizens to own, but in reality, the prohibitions on armor piercing ammunition are all on the manufacturing and sale of it. There is actually no reason that civilians cannot possess AP...
No one has to take my word on it, however unless you have proper licensing and hold a certain type license from the ATF, go ahead and test that water. This is like an intelligence agent telling you, you’re being watched and you go ahead and snitch on yourself . If you engage an attacker with AP rounds in your handgun, you will be prosecuted for being in possession of illegal ammunition, after you are cleared for the legal defense of your person. However, to each their own.. you say AP handgun ammo is legal, the ATF / Federal laws says otherwise
Furthermore, your source is a National Guardsmen with a tour in Afghanistan…. I was regular AD Army, 82nd Airborne (228 Jumps), 3 tours in Afghan, 2 in Iraq, 1 in Kosovo, 1 in Bosnia… that doesn’t make me an expert on the legality of ammunition. Solid copper bullets are not AP, which is why the ATF specifically calls out Beryllium Copper.
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