Melle Mel of the Furious Five explains why he considers 2Pac great and why he doesn't consider Biggie Smalls as a great.

[Heavenlywings77]

Out of curiosity who’s the best and what’s your criteria?

So truthfully i find myself in this conversation aloooot. I do it this way, we can use your criteria. Then we can find out the best that way.
But if I have to make my own, if no one else can decide their own criteria, mine would be as follows:

Impact
Longevity
Sales
Quality
in no specific order. And if I did it that it would be Drake followed by LL Cool J
Those arent my personal favorites. But they fill almost anyone's criteria for best.

 

[Heavenlywings77]

I was there, all of his albums went platinum and six of them went multiplatinum.

In total he as 13 platinum albums dating back from 1996 through his last album released in 2017. That’s a 21 year span in which every album went platinum.

Feel free to prove me wrong.

So you were there. Your gonna tell everyone that
A) he was going platinum out the gate
B) platinum wasn't the norm
C) there weren't countless rappers who went platinum over Jay?

Thats what you about to tell people?

 

[REDLINE]

So truthfully i find myself in this conversation aloooot. I do it this way, we can use your criteria. Then we can find out the best that way.
But if I have to make my own, if no one else can decide their own criteria, mine would be as follows:

Impact
Longevity
Sales
Quality
in no specific order. And if I did it that it would be Drake followed by LL Cool J
Those arent my personal favorites. But they fill almost anyone's criteria for best.

The problem with your opinion on LL is...

His first album came out in 1985, the last album the general and Hip Hop public cared about of his was Mr. Smith in 1995. That’s a 10 year run.

If you were bumping the “Phenomenon” album in 1997 then more power to you

His last album was released in 2008, nobody was checking for an LL album in 2008. LL wasn’t on top of the rap game selling millions of units for 20 years.

But you’re entitled to your opinion.

Regarding Drake, his music hasn’t impacted Hip Hop the way Pac or Jay’s music has. Neither has Eminem and he’s sold more record than Drake and has been on top for longer.

Eminem’s white so the numbers are not an accurate representation for Hip Hop. White people buy his music just because he’s white so that has to be factored in.

So if we factored in just your criteria, the winner probably should be Eminem.

 

[Heavenlywings77]

The problem with your opinion on LL is...

His first album came out in 1985, the last album the general and Hip Hop public cared about of his was Mr. Smith in 1995. That’s a 10 year run.

If you were bumping the “Phenomenon” album in 1997 then more power to you

His last album was released in 2008, nobody was checking for an LL album in 2008. LL wasn’t on top of the rap game selling millions of units for 20 years.

But you’re entitled to your opinion.

Regarding Drake, his music hasn’t impacted Hip Hop the way Pac or Jay’s music has. Neither has Eminem and he’s sold more record than Drake and has been on top for longer.

Eminem’s white so the numbers are not an accurate representation for Hip Hop. White people buy his music just because he’s white so that has to be factored in.

So if we factored in just your criteria, the winner probably should be Eminem.

I never said noooooooone of what your saying..

 

[REDLINE]

So you were there. Your gonna tell everyone that
A) he was going platinum out the gate
B) platinum wasn't the norm
C) there weren't countless rappers who went platinum over Jay?

Thats what you about to tell people?

I didn’t say he went platinum out of the gate, I said he has 13 platinum albums. To my knowledge no other rapper has 13 platinum solo albums.

There’s many rappers who have gone platinum, not every album over a 21 year period.

I’m sorry if you don’t like these facts but those are the facts, I’m not giving your my opinion. The facts are numbers based.

 

[REDLINE]

I never said noooooooone of what your saying..

You stated LL and Drake, I explained why they weren’t the best based on your criteria.

It’s your criteria, not mine.

 

[Heavenlywings77]

I didn’t say he went platinum out of the gate, I said he has 13 platinum albums. To my knowledge no other rapper has 13 platinum solo albums.

There’s many rappers who have gone platinum, not every album over a 21 year period.

I’m sorry if you don’t like these facts but those are the facts, I’m not giving your my opinion. The facts are numbers based.

Most of his albums went platinim after he had the influence to push his propaganda on the world that he is thee best hip hop artist. Better than Christopher Wallace even!
And as it pertains to my criteria, he still hasnt sold the most albums(platinum directly correlates to albums sold)

 

[Blackouttt]

I feel BIG was a better lyricist. However, more people feel Pac. Pac had a larger story line that resonates in the soul of oppressed people. There was tons of music that was written about “getting better” and there is a lot of music discussing “I am frustrated and I will fuck some shit up if you do not listen to me.” BIG music was more street, boom bap, drug cartel music.
Personally, I can’t stand PAC’s music but I do understand and respect that he was a movement and BIG was not.

 

[Heavenlywings77]

You stated LL and Drake, I explained why they weren’t the best based on your criteria.

It’s your criteria, not mine.

We only discussed 1 thing out of the 4 things i mentioned. And yes, LL Cool J would definitely be up there in album sales and platinum records.

 

[REDLINE]

Most of his albums went platinim after he had the influence to push his propaganda on the world that he is thee best hip hop artist. Better than Christopher Wallace even!
And as it pertains to my criteria, he still hasnt sold the most albums(platinum directly correlates to albums sold)

Welp you said it, 20 years in the game dropping albums, most records sold, then it’s

 

[REDLINE]

We only discussed 1 thing out of the 4 things i mentioned. And yes, LL Cool J would definitely be up there in album sales and platinum records.

LL has sold 20 million records and Jay 50 million records worldwide.

 

[REDLINE]

So truthfully i find myself in this conversation aloooot. I do it this way, we can use your criteria. Then we can find out the best that way.
But if I have to make my own, if no one else can decide their own criteria, mine would be as follows:

Impact
Longevity
Sales
Quality
in no specific order. And if I did it that it would be Drake followed by LL Cool J
Those arent my personal favorites. But they fill almost anyone's criteria for best.

Drake’s first album came out in 2009. If we’re still talking about Drake releasing highly anticipated music in 2034, then Drake can join the conversation.

 

[Heavenlywings77]

LL has sold 20 million records and Jay 50 million records worldwide.

This is just facts.
Album sales
LL Cool J < Jay-Z
But he's right up there with the best of them.
Now as it pertains to impact, what is your aegument for Jay-Z?

 

[Heavenlywings77]

Drake’s first album came out in 2009. If we’re still talking about Drake releasing highly anticipated music in 2034, then Drake can join the conversation.

In his 10 year span vs Jay Z, he's had daimond selling shit, Jay doesn't as far as Im aware of, so sales wise he's up there with Jay in a shorter timespan

 

[therealjondoe]

A lot of bullshit in here

 

[REDLINE]

This is just facts.
Album sales
LL Cool J < Jay-Z
But he's right up there with the best of them.
Now as it pertains to impact, what is your aegument for Jay-Z?

Bruh, if you don’t know Jay’s cultural impact by now I’m not the one to tell you it.

One thing about discussions that’s important, it’s that the other person has to be receptive to the knowledge and viewpoints being given.

You’re not, so this is a pointless conversation. You have your mind made up and none of the facts that I’ve presented to you are resonating.

 

[REDLINE]

In his 10 year span vs Jay Z, he's had daimond selling shit, Jay doesn't as far as Im aware of, so sales wise he's up there with Jay in a shorter timespan

“Diamond selling album”?

Bruh, WTF are you talking about?

 

[Heavenlywings77]

“Diamond selling album”?

Bruh, WTF are you talking about?

Daimond selling anything.

Bruh, if you don’t know Jay’s cultural impact by now I’m not the one to tell you it.

One thing about discussions that’s important, it’s that the other person has to be receptive to the knowledge and viewpoints being given.

You’re not, so this is a pointless conversation. You have your mind made up and none of the facts that I’ve presented to you are resonating.

What cultural impact?? Who raps or wants to rap like Jay Z????
His style is a great Biggie knockoff, which would then be Biggies influence, not Jay. So how did he influence hip hop?
It sounds more like you dont have tge patience to converse. We're all busy adults, on to the next thread

 

[therealjondoe]

Daimond selling anything.


What cultural impact?? Who raps or wants to rap like Jay Z????
His style is a great Biggie knockoff, which would then be Biggies influence, not Jay. So how did he influence hip hop?

Lil Wayne switched his style to sound like jay-z and birthed drake in the process for 1

 

[Heavenlywings77]

Lil Wayne switched his style to sound like jay-z and birthed drake in the process for 1

When did Wayne evee sound like Jay Z ever sound like Drake? 3 sonically different rappers by far

 

[REDLINE]

Daimond selling anything.


What cultural impact?? Who raps or wants to rap like Jay Z????
His style is a great Biggie knockoff, which would then be Biggies influence, not Jay. So how did he influence hip hop?
It sounds more like you dont have tge patience to converse. We're all busy adults, on to the next thread

I’ve presented you with numerical facts, but they’re not enough for you.

If a person will argue against facts, just image what this person will argue about when it comes to ones opinion?

I have the patience to converse but as I already explained to you, the person has to be willing to accept the knowledge.

And you’re not willing or able to accept anything that I’m selling, and I’m telling you numbers.

 

[TimRock]

And then it turned into Jay stanning. We were having a perfectly reasonable conversation, and then you just pulled a 'if your not with me, your against me'?

So because i wanted to see your train of thought, i HATE Jay Z??
Emotional....

Huh? I asked you to prove what you said. There's no emotions involved.

 

[TimRock]

So truthfully i find myself in this conversation aloooot. I do it this way, we can use your criteria. Then we can find out the best that way.
But if I have to make my own, if no one else can decide their own criteria, mine would be as follows:

Impact
Longevity
Sales
Quality
in no specific order. And if I did it that it would be Drake followed by LL Cool J
Those arent my personal favorites. But they fill almost anyone's criteria for best.

now you see, this is not how you determine who is the best at something. You just trying to find ways to elevate your boy Drake. Stop it. How about actual skill? versatility? storytelling? You know, the things that are in an actual song? Now, based on pure skill, who do you think is the best?

 

[therealjondoe]

When did Wayne evee sound like Jay Z ever sound like Drake? 3 sonically different rappers by far

How old are you?

 

[Heavenlywings77]

now you see, this is not how you determine who is the best at something. You just trying to find ways to elevate your boy Drake. Stop it. How about actual skill? versatility? storytelling? You know, the things that are in an actual song? Now, based on pure skill, who do you think is the best?

See emotions man. We can figure it out easily but you kinda need to put the emotions up. You wouldnt know qho my favorite artist is because you never asked.

Im going based off facts. Its the same when i try and talk about singers and criteria. Instead of having an intellectual conversation itll be " nah son, u just like the way Gladys Knight's butt look son"
Im like, who even brought that up.

So what is it that I like about Drake, LL Cool J sir ?

 

[Heavenlywings77]

now you see, this is not how you determine who is the best at something. You just trying to find ways to elevate your boy Drake. Stop it. How about actual skill? versatility? storytelling? You know, the things that are in an actual song? Now, based on pure skill, who do you think is the best?

But I asked your criteria already, tou said u didnt have any, so no you dont get to cone back and say what it isnt.. Decide what it is instead first. That doesnt make sense to you? All due respect of course.

 

[TimRock]

See emotions man. We can figure it out easily but you kinda need to put the emotions up. You wouldnt know qho my favorite artist is because you never asked.

Im going based off facts. Its the same when i try and talk about singers and criteria. Instead of having an intellectual conversation itll be " nah son, u just like the way Gladys Knight's butt look son"
Im like, who even brought that up.

So what is it that I like about Drake, LL Cool J sir ?

Hi Sir. Can you please tell me who your favorite artist is? Oh by the way, can you also prove with facts who is the GOAT, like you said you could. Keep in mind, your opinion and qualifications for this are not facts. Pardon me for saying, but i just cannot fathom how you can judge someone on being the best at something, when your criteria didn't include the one thing that matters in the field....actually rapping. Unless by saying "quality" you are referring to skill, but it doesn't sound like that to me. Oh, but if i am wrong, please do correct me kind sir.

I THINK you like LL and Drake because most of their music (practically all of Drakes) speaks to the hoes. Drake is a bit of a sensitive whiny lad that raps about the same thing over and over, which is begging ladies to love him or treat him nice, money and worrying about what people say about him. He makes tic-toc and twerk music. LL is great, he had a great run, great albums and great songs. He actually has rapping skills and was able to rap about a variety of things. So i have no problem with you calling LL GOAT or thinking he is. Is he in my opinion, no? Can he rap, of course. Legend, yes. Top 10, probably only most peoples list.

And for the record, i don't even think Jay is greatest lyricist. Is he one of the best, yes. But if someone asked me if he was the greatest, i'd say no in a heartbeat. Now Sir Wings, i hope my reply was not considered too emotional for you. I

 

[christop]

Here is a rap city da basement freestyle with him and the furious 5 doing all the shit he said was wrong in hip hop lol.

 

[wwetv100]

Man at that time I didn’t think anyone would be bigger than Pac or BiG, that’s how polarizing they were. They seemed unstoppable.’Since then there hasn’t been in my mind anyone who comes close to producing the same effect.

There was talk Pac was gonna end the beef on his own time and connect the regions I would’ve loved to see what that looked like.

Pac was a troubled soul. He had a lot of talent but didn’t feel like he had enough power or respect I guess that made his music aggressive and he sought association with aggressive people namely Suge Knight and Haitian Jack both notorious individuals. Pac wanted muscle behind him and after getting shot I understand but that ended up being a double edge sword

Yeah the thing with Tupac and Biggie is that they were able to balance the street and commercial rap appeal. Something that didn't really happen at this level before. Hammer had huge success, but he was ridiculed for being a sell out. Wu Tang Clan had appeal, but not like Pac level where Hollywood would come calling.

The closest was Ice Cube who could be similar to Pac, but Cube lost a little steam by time Pac was riding for the west coast. Biggie was perfect as the underdog fat guy who overcame the odds. Pac was the "rock star" with James Dean appeal and Biggie was the underdog living the "dream' as he stated in Juicy.

Marketing dream come true for the higher ups to keep pushing. LL Cool J also had that kind of appeal, but he started to lose steam too. The reason is that Pac had the street part and appeal more on lock where he seemed like apart of the people.

Of course that street stuff also played in his downfall not only with his life, but with some directors and people not wanting to hire Pac. Eventually, with age though there is no reason to believe Pac would easily transition into Hollywood to what LL and Ice Cube are today.

Jay Z gets compared to Biggie with the vacuum because he basically also got the image and marketing of the New York rapper overcoming odds to living the "American Dream" like Rockerfeller instead of Frank White.

We must remember this is the music BUSINESS and marketing and promotion is huge in making a "Hip Hop Star". Diddy and Pac imo understood the elements to balance what was needed in the mid 90's which eventually led to that clash for that top spot.

 

[therealjondoe]

Here is a rap city da basement freestyle with him and the furious 5 talking and the shit he said was wrong in hip hop lol.

"All you old rappers tryna advance it's all over now take it like man"

 

[christop]

"All you old rappers tryna advance it's all over now take it like man"

 

[The Plutonian]

Two of the greatest to ever do it. Would probably push a debate into an argument, then....a fight. I respect his opinion but I loved them both. I still to this day hate the two assholes that got them killed. That is all.

 

[wwetv100]

Two of the greatest to ever do it. Would probably push a debate into an argument, then....a fight. I respect his opinion but I loved them both. I still to this day hate the two assholes that got them killed. That is all.

Shows the greatness of the two that decades later on various platforms and artists of all generations still speak on the them.

When your enemies even speak with reverence knowing the historical significance of the artist, you know you are a real legend!

Jay-Z showed his respect for hip hop lore.

 

[BigATLslim]

As far as a rapper your dead wrong about that. Biggie was better. Now as far as a generational overall better talent as an entertainer, it was Pac. I've said this for the longest Pac was on his way to being Will Smith before Will Smith. Had he not been acting so fuckin stupid he could have been in just about everything Will was in. He was that good as an actor. The movie Gang Related really showed how good he really was on screen.

Been telling people this for years.

All due respect to Will, in that, his work ethic is undeniable.
However, had Tupac lived his career in Hollywood would was on the trajectory to be just as great, if not greater than Will’s.

Pac was a trained thespian with more God given talent PLUS will Smith’s work ethic.

Sh!t woulda been bananas.

In the beginning I don’t even think 2Pac knew or was consciously making an effort to cut off BiG from a whole coast. His contention with BiG was his belief and association with those who he thought shot him.

The Source awards drama is what transformed it into some East coast vs west coast shit. 2Pac just rode that momentum because it went against BiG and cuz Suge Knight said so lol

The Bad Boy vs Death Row shit polarized both of their music and they both greatly benefited from that. 2Pac already had made a name for himself in music BiG was kinda the new kid on the block at the time and his music while good on its own gained a lot by his beef with Pac.

The east coast versus west coast beef actually ignited right here in Atlanta.

Ask Dallas. He’ll tell ya.

 

[jack walsh13]

Been telling people this for years.

All due respect to Will, in that, his work ethic is undeniable.
However, had Tupac lived his career in Hollywood would was on the trajectory to be just as great, if not greater than Will’s.

Pac was a trained thespian with more God given talent PLUS will Smith’s work ethic.

Sh!t woulda been bananas.


The east coast versus west coast beef actually ignited right here in Atlanta.

Ask Dallas. He’ll tell ya.

All facts right there bruh.