Melle Mel of the Furious Five explains why he considers 2Pac great and why he doesn't consider Biggie Smalls as a great.

[Backshot Bully]

In the beginning I don’t even think 2Pac knew or was consciously making an effort to cut off BiG from a whole coast. His contention with BiG was his belief and association with those who he thought shot him.

The Source awards drama is what transformed it into some East coast vs west coast shit. 2Pac just rode that momentum because it went against BiG and cuz Suge Knight said so lol

The Bad Boy vs Death Row shit polarized both of their music and they both greatly benefited from that. 2Pac already had made a name for himself in music BiG was kinda the new kid on the block at the time and his music while good on its own gained a lot by his beef with Pac.

pac hoe ass knew big didn't shoot him. it was all for record sales and jealousy of bigs shine. Be Honest wit ya self, Big was just as popular as pac in 2 albums to pacs 10 year rap and movie career.

Pac was as good as any average 90's rapper it was just the emotion and passion in his rhymes that separated him.

Big was a phenomenon when he stepped on the scene. The one take king. Pac knew that too. These niggas still out here copying bigs style.

a camel faced billionaire nigga in particular.

 

[Mello Mello]

pac hoe ass knew big didn't shoot him. it was all for record sales and jealousy of bigs shine. Be Honest wit ya self, Big was just as popular as pac in 2 albums to pacs 10 year rap and movie career.

Pac was as good as any average 90's rapper it was just the emotion and passion in his rhymes that separated him.

Big was a phenomenon when he stepped on the scene. The one take king. Pac knew that too. These niggas still out here copying bigs style.

a camel faced billionaire nigga in particular.

Never said Pac thought BiG shot him.

Pac Jealous of BiG?! Naw.

Pac didn’t like who BiG was associated with because Pac believed they were involved with his shooting. Pac did a lot in befriending BiG if anything Pac felt betrayed and wanted revenge. Pac felt like BiG was co-signin what they did.

And BiG was as popular as 2Pac in two albums and part of that popularity was fueled by his controversy with Pac.

They copy BiGs style all they want but like you said BiG was a one take king he had a presence all his own that couldnt be imitated.

 

[TimRock]

Pac didn’t like who BiG was associated with because Pac believed they were involved with his shooting.

You mean the guy who set him up for the rape charge? The guy everybody tried to warn Pac about?

 

[BKF]

New York niggas bout to be big mad but nothing wrong with what he said. 2Pac had a great impact on the world with his music and impact on culture itself.

2Pacs music spoke about real shit, social and political commentary through music that many could relate to and when he wasn’t making music he was involved in something else. BiGs music was pure entertainment, fun and fantasy, floss and gloss.

Truthfully 2Pacs feud with BiG contributed a lot to BiGs greatness and catapulted him to bigger stardom.

This statement is complete nonsense...big shined on his own. If anything it was the complete opposite.

 

[footloose]

“Like when I said I’m a emcee”. That’s great
Nicca pleaaaaazzzze

melle Nell you are great. And that’s not why.
and stop hating Nicca.

according to his logic t pain is great. Cause everybody been using auto tunes

 

[Mello Mello]

This statement is complete nonsense...big shined on his own. If anything it was the complete opposite.

It’s all truth.

That beef polarized them.

BiG did shine on his own but that beef made him an even bigger name.

How could it be the opposite when Pac was already a household name who bought BiG in the fold.

If you denying this your in denial period.

 

[REDLINE]

It’s all truth.

That beef polarized them.

BiG did shine on his own but that beef made him an even bigger name.

How could it be the opposite when Pac was already a household name.

If you denying this your in denial period.

The beef gave the mainstream media and the police something to talk about. It didn’t elevate BIG’s career.

It actually was a stain that BIG and Puff didn’t like taking about and did their best not to acknowledge.

The beef didn’t help BIG sell more records because his album came out a year and some change before the beef was public.

 

[Mello Mello]

You mean the guy who set him up for the rape charge? The guy everybody tried to warn Pac about?

Indeed.

I think BiG was the one who introduced them in the first place.

 

[TimRock]

Indeed.

I think BiG was the one who introduced them in the first place.

Introducing someone to a person is way different from saying "maybe you should make this guy your bestie". Pac chose to get cool with him against the warning from others. That was not BIGs fault at all.

 

[wwetv100]

Also knowing him personally, didn't know about PE, but he did hate Run DMC.

"I wear black, and I always will,
Because I'm dressing for your funeral.
I am you, but you ain't me,
Because you didn't start rocking til 83!"

Melle Mel said in the Evolution of Hip Hop series (if I recall correctly) that Run DMC ruined his whole "rock star" routine he wanted to take the genre in. The whole simple street wear with Adidas and clothing was in contrast with him trying to rock gear as if Grandmaster Flash and The Furious Five were going for when they would open up for acts like The Jacksons.

Everybody doesn’t know this 2pac song, but he was flowin’ on this shit.

Pac could flow. When I heard Pac rhyme over this beat I said this guy can rap over anything. When Gravediggaz had the beat first they couldn't really rhyme over it as they just used it as an intro.

New York niggas bout to be big mad but nothing wrong with what he said. 2Pac had a great impact on the world with his music and impact on culture itself.

2Pacs music spoke about real shit, social and political commentary through music that many could relate to and when he wasn’t making music he was involved in something else. BiGs music was pure entertainment, fun and fantasy, floss and gloss.

Truthfully 2Pacs feud with BiG contributed a lot to BiGs greatness and catapulted him to bigger stardom.

People tend to forget that Biggie actually drew heat on himself with the east coast with that call he made to NY that Snoop and Dogg Pound were filming a music video in the city. Biggie knew the beef was helping him mainstream wise against the west coast rappers who were getting billboard rankings.

Things just accelerated when Pac came out of prison. The same prison where Pac had the number one album in the country.

Biggie was rising no doubt, but anyone denying that east coast west coast beef didn't put more mainstream eyes on him is just in denial. The west coast had the attention of the rap world at the time which is why Snoop called out NY for the lack of love at the Source awards.

Big always gets compared with Pac because of the mix up and them dying months apart, but people tend to ignore the aforementioned beef Biggie was also apart of orchestrating. Biggie no doubt was helped with the east coast's desire to compete with the west coast under Dr. Dre's production that was appealing more to the mainstream. Why you think Biggie's fashion sense changed up the way it did to more west coast after "Ready To Die" dropped? Why puffy started remixing so heavy old school songs just like the west coast was doing to songs from parliament funk and so on?

In the beginning I don’t even think 2Pac knew or was consciously making an effort to cut off BiG from a whole coast. His contention with BiG was his belief and association with those who he thought shot him.

The Source awards drama is what transformed it into some East coast vs west coast shit. 2Pac just rode that momentum because it went against BiG and cuz Suge Knight said so lol

The Bad Boy vs Death Row shit polarized both of their music and they both greatly benefited from that. 2Pac already had made a name for himself in music BiG was kinda the new kid on the block at the time and his music while good on its own gained a lot by his beef with Pac.

This is true and shouldn't be seen as a knock on Biggie's impact or rise. Biggie stepped up to the plate for the east coast when Nas was considered not strong enough record sales wise to compete with west coast. Nas is another one who switched up to compete on It Was Written to compete with the sales of the west coast.

 

[Mello Mello]

The beef gave the mainstream media and the police something to talk about. It didn’t elevate BIG’s career.

It actually was a stain that BIG and Puff didn’t like taking about and did their best not to acknowledge.

The beef didn’t help BIG sell more records because his album came out a year and some change before the beef was public.

Ready to Die came out in 94
The beef between them exposed in 95.
BiG died in 97.

People didn’t just stop buying BiGs record because it came out before they knew about Pac. When they knew they bought it even more.

Introducing someone to a person is way different from saying "maybe you should make this guy your bestie". Pac chose to get cool with him against the warning from others. That was not BIGs fault at all.

The point in mentioning that is to note the association. Which is the main reason why the finger gets pointed in his direction.

Further the actual shooter/s was connected with Rosemond.

 

[wwetv100]

That's because there's like five versions of all of his songs. They just kept taking his already layed verses and putting them on different beats.

Yeah, people forget many of those songs Pac himself didn't even put out or want out and he had used layered versions on the actual releases he felt were up to par.

Just imagine that whole R U Still Down album Pac had on the cutting room floor. You could tell he used some of those rhymes in an altered fashion on his official releases.

It becomes clear that Pac didn't want that material out or he wouldn't have made a whole double album and follow up album for Deathrow with completely new music. He could have easily just used up some of that old material, but he didn't want it out there for whatever reason. I tend to think because he simply didn't think it was good enough for release, yet we heard some gems on those unreleased songs.

 

[REDLINE]

Ready to Die came out in 94
The beef between them exposed in 95.
BiG died in 97.

People didn’t just stop buying BiGs record because it came out before they knew about Pac. When they knew they bought it even more.


The point in mentioning that is to note the association. Which is the main reason why the finger gets pointed in his direction.

Further the actual shooter/s was connected with Rosemond.

Ready to Die came out September 1994.

Suge spoke about BadBoy at the Source Awards August 1995 showing that there was an issue.

Tupac started the disses on wax late 1995 early 1996.

The beef wasn’t a good thing for BIG career wise.

 

[Mello Mello]

Melle Mel said in the Evolution of Hip Hop series (if I recall correctly) that Run DMC ruined his whole "rock star" routine he wanted to take the genre in. The whole simple street wear with Adidas and clothing was in contrast with him trying to rock gear as if Grandmaster Flash and The Furious Five were going for when they would open up for acts like The Jacksons.

Pac could flow. When I heard Pac rhyme over this beat I said this guy can rap over anything. When Gravediggaz had the beat first they couldn't really rhyme over it as they just used it as an intro.







People tend to forget that Biggie actually drew heat on himself with the east coast with that call he made to NY that Snoop and Dogg Pound were filming a music video in the city. Biggie knew the beef was helping him mainstream wise against the west coast rappers who were getting billboard rankings.

Things just accelerated when Pac came out of prison. The same prison where Pac had the number one album in the country.

Biggie was rising no doubt, but anyone denying that east coast west coast beef didn't put more mainstream eyes on him is just in denial. The west coast had the attention of the rap world at the time which is why Snoop called out NY for the lack of love at the Source awards.

Big always gets compared with Pac because of the mix up and them dying months apart, but people tend to ignore the aforementioned beef Biggie was also apart of orchestrating. Biggie no doubt was helped with the east coast's desire to compete with the west coast under Dr. Dre's production that was appealing more to the mainstream. Why you think Biggie's fashion sense changed up the way it did to more west coast after "Ready To Die" dropped? Why puffy started remixing so heavy old school songs just like the west coast was doing to songs from parliament funk and so on?




This is true and shouldn't be seen as a knock on Biggie's impact or rise. Biggie stepped up to the plate for the east coast when Nas was considered not strong enough record sales wise to compete with west coast. Nas is another one who switched up to compete on It Was Written to compete with the sales of the west coast.

Thank you.

Not a knock against BiG at all it just is what it is.
I personally wish BiG had a longer career because his success was short lived for such a dope artist.

WestCoast music was popular at that time BiG was the one who brought the focus back on East Coast music. As you mention Nas or anyone else didn’t seem to have the right sound to compete.

People forget amid all that beef with 2Pac BiG still made connections with a lot of WestCoast artist whether he recorded with them or not. Daz In particular who was heavily connected with Dr Snoop and Pac at that time was cool with BiG and even recorded with him.

 

[wwetv100]

Thank you.

Not a knock against BiG at all it just is what it is.
I personally wish BiG had a longer career because his success was short lived for such a dope artist.

WestCoast music was popular at that time BiG was the one to brought the focus back on East Coast music. As you mention Nas or anyone else didn’t seem to have the right sound to compete.

People forget amid all that beef with 2Pac BiG still made connections with a lot of WestCoast artist whether he recorded with them or not. Daz In particular who was heavily connected with Dr Snoop and Pac at that time was cool with BiG and even recorded with him.

I do understand the emotional connection to the time and why there is still a division with Pac and Biggie discussion, but the worst thing of all is that we lost two all-time greats who didn't even reach their peak or full potential.

That is why people say things like Jay Z would not have been as big because at the time it seemed like Pac and Biggie were just growing better and better as time went on.

Who knows maybe they would have fell off, but even that is conjecture. Pac and Biggie were like cult leaders for both coasts and it seemed like it would have to be someone from their sides of the coast that would have to dismantle them from the kingship of the regions.

As Pac said, it was a battle to see who ran the "nigga kingdom" of hip hop. In that terms, Pac was a bit more seasoned with his background to lead although his hot head got in the way of his true potential.

 

[REDLINE]

I’m not gonna post the vids because Mel’s talking to vlad, but why are we listening to Mel again?

 

[Mr. Met]

He’s right. Face it, Big’s rhymes weren’t exactly inspiring.

 

[Heavenlywings77]

Bruh, you love Drake. A dude who sings about nothing but his emotions.

Your deflecting. I dont get your point.
I do love Drake's music.

 

[Heavenlywings77]

Because the biggest rappers in the game were killed 6 months apart leaving a void, specifically in New York

BIG to my knowledge was the only NY rapper moving big units on a commercial level and then he was gone.

They feel that was open for the taking and Jay stepped up.

People only say this because it became Jay's schtick, to say that he was the best in his own music. Jay is not, was not and seemingly never will be the best. This can be backed up by hard facts

 

[Mello Mello]

I do understand the emotional connection to the time and why there is still a division with Pac and Biggie discussion, but the worst thing of all is that we lost two all-time greats who didn't even reach their peak or full potential.

That is why people say things like Jay Z would not have been as big because at the time it seemed like Pac and Biggie were just growing better and better as time went on.

Who knows maybe they would have fell off, but even that is conjecture. Pac and Biggie were like cult leaders for both coasts and it seemed like it would have to be someone from their sides of the coast that would have to dismantle them from the kingship of the regions.

As Pac said, it was a battle to see who ran the "nigga kingdom" of hip hop. In that terms, Pac was a bit more seasoned with his background to lead although his hot head got in the way of his true potential.

Man at that time I didn’t think anyone would be bigger than Pac or BiG, that’s how polarizing they were. They seemed unstoppable.’Since then there hasn’t been in my mind anyone who comes close to producing the same effect.

There was talk Pac was gonna end the beef on his own time and connect the regions I would’ve loved to see what that looked like.

Pac was a troubled soul. He had a lot of talent but didn’t feel like he had enough power or respect I guess that made his music aggressive and he sought association with aggressive people namely Suge Knight and Haitian Jack both notorious individuals. Pac wanted muscle behind him and after getting shot I understand but that ended up being a double edge sword

 

[REDLINE]

People only say this because it became Jay's schtick, to say that he was the best in his own music. Jay is not, was not and seemingly never will be the best. This can be backed up by hard facts

There is no best.

 

[Heavenlywings77]

There is no best.

Why do you say that if i may ask?

 

[REDLINE]

Why do you say that if i may ask?

Because there’s no best Rapper\MC of all time, it’s just that simple. In my opinion.

There’s too many categories and criteria to factor in and there’s no single person who’s better than everyone.

It’s not Tupac because he’s not the best rapper

It’s not BIG because he didn’t have enough material and his impact wasn’t as influential as PAC’s.

I usually say Jay because he’s had the best career, discography and his longevity.

But to say any of them is “The Greatest”, just isn’t true of fair in my opinion.

 

[Heavenlywings77]

Because there’s no best Rapper\MC of all time, it’s just that simple. In my opinion.

There’s too many categories and criteria to factor in and there’s no single person who’s better than everyone.

It’s not Tupac because he’s not the best rapper

It’s not BIG because he didn’t have enough material and his impact wasn’t as influential as PAC’s.

I usually say Jay because he’s had the best career, discography and his longevity.

But to say any of them is “The Greatest”, just isn’t true of fair in my opinion.

But criteria can be made, just seems like people are too lazy or biased to do so.
Jay- Z has had the best discography? How did you come to that conclusion? Longevity? He came out in the mid 90's . There are rappers from the 80's and early 90's still creating music

 

[keith6]

My underlying question is always this. Could BIG keep up the momentum over an extended period of time? Unfortunately we don't know the answer. Once Pac died he still had extra material. If we based Rakim over a couple of albums....

 

[^SpiderMan^]

I’ll take back the Compilation part.

That said, I do believe BIG is the most overrated in the Rap game. He had 2 albums with dope production and marketing. Then he died in his prime.

Not many people outside the East Coast see BIG in the conversation for THE GOAT.

BIG’s body of work isn’t in the same league as 2Pac,Nas,Jay,or Snoop’s.

 

[Complex]

Tupac used to school Big on how to write for various crowds. Club joints. Radio joints. Love songs. Positive songs. Etc. Those dudes were cool first.

and I'm sure nobody like Treach or Shock G did that for Tupac

 

[TimRock]

People only say this because it became Jay's schtick, to say that he was the best in his own music. Jay is not, was not and seemingly never will be the best. This can be backed up by hard facts

what facts can be proven to show who is the best? There are none. and don't tell me streams, album sales,, etc. That does not prove you are the best, just proves people like your content. You just have a personal vendetta against Jay, it's ok to admit.

That said, I do believe BIG is the most overrated in the Rap game.

wow, really. so people are forced to still be talking about him to this day? People are forced to continue to bump his music and mention his name?

Not many people outside the East Coast see BIG in the conversation for THE GOAT.

have you taken a poll to prove this? First it was outside of NY, now it's outside of the east coast? Are you gonna change that to outside of america soon?

BIG’s body of work isn’t in the same league as 2Pac,Nas,Jay,or Snoop’s.

3 of them are still alive making music, the other started making music before BIG and spent a few years in jail where he was able to write more lyrics.

 

[king reckless]

and I'm sure nobody like Treach or Shock G did that for Tupac

And your point is? Hey, here's an idea. Instead of smart assing everyone's comments why not write your own?

Mister "I want to criticize but I don't want criticism" type poster. Which one is you, Statler or Wardolf?

 

[Heavenlywings77]

what facts can be proven to show who is the best? There are none. and don't tell me streams, album sales,, etc. That does not prove you are the best, just proves people like your content. You just have a personal vendetta against Jay, it's ok to admit.

wow, really. so people are forced to still be talking about him to this day? People are forced to continue to bump his music and mention his name?

have you taken a poll to prove this? First it was outside of NY, now it's outside of the east coast? Are you gonna change that to outside of america soon?

3 of them are still alive making music, the other started making music before BIG and spent a few years in jail where he was able to write more lyrics.

And then it turned into Jay stanning. We were having a perfectly reasonable conversation, and then you just pulled a 'if your not with me, your against me'?

So because i wanted to see your train of thought, i HATE Jay Z??
Emotional....

 

[REDLINE]

But criteria can be made, just seems like people are too lazy or biased to do so.
Jay- Z has had the best discography? How did you come to that conclusion? Longevity? He came out in the mid 90's . There are rappers from the 80's and early 90's still creating music

Jay’s first album came out in 1996. Every album after was highly anticipated and some, even to this date on a commercial level.

Yes there’s other rappers from the 80’s and 90’s, which ones are highly anticipated and making noise on a mainstream level.

When I say mainstream, I mean the general public and Hip Hop fans. Nobody’s been on top
As long as Jay z.

 

[Heavenlywings77]

Jay’s first album came out in 1996. Every album after was highly anticipated and some, even to this date on a commercial level.

Yes there’s other rappers from the 80’s and 90’s, which ones are highly anticipated and making noise on a mainstream level.

Are u repeating that? Or were u there? Cause i was there and, thats not true. I will prove it if you dont feel like doing the research.

 

[BKF]

I’ll take back the Compilation part.

That said, I do believe BIG is the most overrated in the Rap game. He had 2 albums with dope production and marketing. Then he died in his prime.

Not many people outside the East Coast see BIG in the conversation for THE GOAT.

BIG’s body of work isn’t in the same league as 2Pac,Nas,Jay,or Snoop’s.

What you're missing because of your bias is that those two albums had an impact. It's quality over quantity.

 

[REDLINE]

People only say this because it became Jay's schtick, to say that he was the best in his own music. Jay is not, was not and seemingly never will be the best. This can be backed up by hard facts

But criteria can be made, just seems like people are too lazy or biased to do so.
Jay- Z has had the best discography? How did you come to that conclusion? Longevity? He came out in the mid 90's . There are rappers from the 80's and early 90's still creating music

Out of curiosity who’s the best and what’s your criteria?

 

[REDLINE]

Are u repeating that? Or were u there? Cause i was there and, thats not true. I will prove it if you dont feel like doing the research.

I was there, all of his albums went platinum and six of them went multiplatinum.

In total he as 13 platinum albums dating back from 1996 through his last album released in 2017. That’s a 21 year span in which every album went platinum.

Feel free to prove me wrong.