Could a 53 year-old Mike Tyson make a comeback?

[doug777]

Tyson's career rival, 57-year-old former undisputed heavyweight champion Evander Holyfield, is also discussing the idea of coming back and releasing his own training clips.

According to Tyson, Holyfield is not necessarily going to be the comeback opponent.

"Na, na we got many guys. Listen we’ve got so many guys that want to do this man.

Translation: We're looking at a Peter McNeely rematch.

Mike Tyson Says Deal Nearly Done For Return, Hints at Big Name

Former undisputed heavyweight champion Mike Tyson is teasing that he's going to face a big name, when a potential ring return is finalized. Tyson, 53-years-old, has been out of the ring since 2005 - when he suffered a knockout loss to heavyweight journeyman Kevin McBride.

www.boxingscene.com

 

[Keepthapeace]

Check out of this thread about the second tier fighters of the seventies, other than Norton who was awarded his title none of these fighters were champions because they fought in the toughest era in heavyweight boxing history. I believe all of these fighters would run the gauntlet on all the champions Tyson beat.

The Best Second Tier Heavyweight Boxer Of The 70's?

Ali, Frazier and Foreman were the big dogs of the heavyweight division in the 70's, who was the second best? Jerry Quarry Nickname(s) Irish, The Bellflower Bomber Rated at Heavyweight Nationality American Born May 15, 1945 Bakersfield, California Died January 3, 1999 (aged 53) Stance Orthodox...

www.bgol.us

That's been your opinion, but it's my opinion yours hasn't been substantiated in this debate...

Interesting you have Foreman himself saying he wanted no part of prime Iron Mike even in his prime... what does that tell you? Just go to 16:50. Now you can say he was older and more humble, but the man himself stated this... in a court of law, with that kind of first hand witness testimony that would at least place Iron Mike mandatory #2 on your list right?

Also, on the Arsenio show (you may be too young too recall) as he asked the exact question to Ali, Prime vs Prime and even Ali said prime Tyson would beat him in his prime... but no need go there... we must respect his unfortunate declining condition then, although they said his mind was still very good.

The point is whether you believe your top two heavyweights of all time were just being humble as older former champs, they both thought prime Tyson was at least good enough to be them.

16:50

 

[doug777]

Interesting you have Foreman himself saying he wanted no part of prime Iron Mike even in his prime... what does that tell you? Just go to 16:50. Now you can say he was older and more humble, but the man himself stated this... in a court of law, with that kind of first hand witness testimony that would at least place Iron Mike mandatory #2 on your list right? beat the hell out of me

Also, on the Arsenio show (you may be too young too recall) as he asked the exact question to Ali, Prime vs Prime and even Ali said prime Tyson would beat him in his prime... but no need go there... we must respect his unfortunate declining condition then, although they said his mind was still very good.

The point is whether you believe your top two heavyweights of all time were just being humble as older former champs, they both thought prime Tyson was at least good enough to be them.

If you can show me anything with Ali or Foreman doubting their ability against any fighter while they were still active fighters then I'll believe it but you can't because nothing exists. Did you ever hear Foreman while an active fight say I don't want any part of Mike Tyson? Unless there's some serious animosity between fighters most fighters will say nice things about their opponents or successors, after the fact. Have you ever heard any fighter before the fight saying I know this fighter is going to beat the hell out of me. No matter what Foreman says now he wanted to fight Tyson. On the other hand several people have stated that Tyson was scared to fight Foreman. The incident with Tyson going off on King about fighting Foreman was also witnessed by Georgie Benton.




A young Mike Tyson was also too wary of George Foreman to fight the former champion.
That theory was backed up by veteran American boxing journalist Frank Lotierzo. He recounted a lunch he had with Don King's longtime matchmaker Bobby Goodman who told him Tyson was scared of George Foreman and that Foreman was a con man, putting on the old-man show so he'd always be overlooked.

"You'll never believe this but Tyson is scared s***less of Foreman and wants no part of him. I was there when Don was trying to make the fight. He was telling Tyson that Foreman represented huge money, plus he was old and slow and would be no problem. Tyson got up and screamed at King saying, 'I'm not fightin' that f****ng animal. If you love the motherf***er so much, you fight him!'"

Now, with the benefit of hindsight, the 71-year-old Foreman reckons Tyson would have been "a tough fight" for him and he again confirmed there had been real interest in setting up such a bout.

He told On The Ropes Boxing: "There were a couple of times, serious negotiations were going on with the Mike Tyson fight. Mike Tyson just didn't want to fight me. Not to say he couldn't have beaten me.

The reason George Foreman and Mike Tyson avoided each other

Big George reveals the mutual mental anguish that blocked a super fight.

www.stuff.co.nz

 

[Mr. Met]

For $20 mil, why not.

 

[Keepthapeace]

Bruh,.you grabbing at straws to simply talk rather than debate against facts.

You are clearly one of these cats that have an excuse against any direct evidence.

THEN you want to keep getting off the subject of debate... for the 16th to 17th time nobody's talking about a prime Mike Tyson vs Foreman 2nd come back... that's like saying prime jordan is better than prime kobe and you kept bringing up jordan with the wizards... really fam?

A champion tells you point blank another champion in the same weight division was better than him in his prime and you say... well that dont count because he never said he might lose to an opponent... bruh, if I really have to tell you why any "active" boxer champion or not would NEVER admit to something like that... I need to end this now and quit wasting my time because you either purposely making ridiculous statements because you know you've lost this debate or you really are a young kid that's never understood boxing or any individual professional sport for this matter.

Prime Iron Mike Tyson dominated not one, but two fighters that one fighter, Young, dominated a 28 year old Forman that sent him into his first retirement.

Thanks for this article you sent that again proves my point which this is precisely why Big George made this statement in it:

"That guy was a nightmare in the ring. I didn't want anything to do with that guy. I didn't want a part of Mike Tyson. He was a monster," Foreman told ESPN.

 

[slewdem100]

If you can show me anything with Ali or Foreman doubting their ability against any fighter while they were still active fighters then I'll believe it but you can't because nothing exists. Did you ever hear Foreman while an active fight say I don't want any part of Mike Tyson? Unless there's some serious animosity between fighters most fighters will say nice things about their opponents or successors, after the fact. Have you ever heard any fighter before the fight saying I know this fighter is going to beat the hell out of me. No matter what Foreman says now he wanted to fight Tyson. On the other hand several people have stated that Tyson was scared to fight Foreman. The incident with Tyson going off on King about fighting Foreman was also witnessed by Georgie Benton.




A young Mike Tyson was also too wary of George Foreman to fight the former champion.
That theory was backed up by veteran American boxing journalist Frank Lotierzo. He recounted a lunch he had with Don King's longtime matchmaker Bobby Goodman who told him Tyson was scared of George Foreman and that Foreman was a con man, putting on the old-man show so he'd always be overlooked.

"You'll never believe this but Tyson is scared s***less of Foreman and wants no part of him. I was there when Don was trying to make the fight. He was telling Tyson that Foreman represented huge money, plus he was old and slow and would be no problem. Tyson got up and screamed at King saying, 'I'm not fightin' that f****ng animal. If you love the motherf***er so much, you fight him!'"

Now, with the benefit of hindsight, the 71-year-old Foreman reckons Tyson would have been "a tough fight" for him and he again confirmed there had been real interest in setting up such a bout.

He told On The Ropes Boxing: "There were a couple of times, serious negotiations were going on with the Mike Tyson fight. Mike Tyson just didn't want to fight me. Not to say he couldn't have beaten me.

The reason George Foreman and Mike Tyson avoided each other

Big George reveals the mutual mental anguish that blocked a super fight.

www.stuff.co.nz

Yeah, the story goes that Cus D'Amoto used to tell a young Tyson all sorts of stories about how crazy Foreman was (its a good thing there wasn't any social media when George was young)....Cus told this to Tyson when Foreman had been long since retired not knowing he would come back...so Tyson had that impression of George embedded in his brain and wanted nothing to do with him in the ring when Foreman was back on the scene

 

[doug777]

You are clearly one of these cats that have an excuse against any direct evidence.

What direct evidence?

THEN you want to keep getting off the subject of debate... for the 16th to 17th time nobody's talking about a prime Mike Tyson vs Foreman 2nd come back... that's like saying prime jordan is better than prime kobe and you kept bringing up jordan with the wizards... really fam?

Foreman is almost twenty years older than Tyson, any version of Tyson should be able to beat a fighter twenty years older than he is.

A champion tells you point blank another champion in the same weight division was better than him in his prime and you say... well that dont count because he never said he might lose to an opponent...

What I'm saying is you can't take what they're saying as gospel. Ali has fought some of the biggest bombers in boxing history, Liston and Foreman in their day was every bit as fearsome as Tyson was thought to be maybe even more so and both men were much bigger than Tyson.

bruh, if I really have to tell you why any "active" boxer champion or not would NEVER admit to something like that... I need to end this now and quit wasting my time because you either purposely making ridiculous statements because you know you've lost this debate or you really are a young kid that's never understood boxing or any individual professional sport for this matter.

That's exactly my point, it means nothing what a fifty year old Ali or a sixty year old Foreman says about a Tyson they're never going to fight. What matters is, if given the chance they both would have fought him.

Prime Iron Mike Tyson dominated not one, but two fighters that one fighter, Young, dominated a 28 year old Forman that sent him into his first retirement.

Come on man they beat a faded Jimmy Young.

Thanks for this article you sent that again proves my point which this is precisely why Big George made this statement in it:

"That guy was a nightmare in the ring. I didn't want anything to do with that guy. I didn't want a part of Mike Tyson. He was a monster," Foreman told ESPN.

Hey what about the part that said Tyson was scared shitless of Foreman?

Look we're never going to agree or change the other one's opinion about Tyson. Tyson was an adrenaline shot in the arm of a bleak and dismal era of heavyweight boxing but ultimately he didn't live up to the hype. Tyson deserves some credit for stopping Holmes and Spinks the two most accomplished fighters he ever beat but Tyson fans give him too much credit because he was supposed to beat a thirty eight year old inactive fighter and an undersized heavyweight. Tyson was an exciting fighter but his resume is week. You believe Tyson was done after twenty three but Tyson was still able to beat the same level of fighter after prison that he beat before prison. None of the fighters that KO'd Tyson had an unfair advantage over him, Tyson went into all those fights on an even level with his opponents, he just wasn't good enough to win.

 

[Keepthapeace]

What direct evidence?
Foreman is almost twenty years older than Tyson, any version of Tyson should be able to beat a fighter twenty years older than he is.
What I'm saying is you can't take what they're saying as gospel. Ali has fought some of the biggest bombers in boxing history, Liston and Foreman in their day was every bit as fearsome as Tyson was thought to be maybe even more so and both men were much bigger than Tyson.
That's exactly my point, it means nothing what a fifty year old Ali or a sixty year old Foreman says about a Tyson they're never going to fight. What matters is, if given the chance they both would have fought him.

Come on man they beat a faded Jimmy Young.Hey what about the part that said Tyson was scared shitless of Foreman?

Look we're never going to agree or change the other one's opinion about Tyson. Tyson was an adrenaline shot in the arm of a bleak and dismal era of heavyweight boxing but ultimately he didn't live up to the hype. Tyson deserves some credit for stopping Holmes and Spinks the two most accomplished fighters he ever beat but Tyson fans give him too much credit because he was supposed to beat a thirty eight year old inactive fighter and an undersized heavyweight. Tyson was an exciting fighter but his resume is week. You believe Tyson was done after twenty three but Tyson was still able to beat the same level of fighter after prison that he beat before prison. None of the fighters that KO'd Tyson had an unfair advantage over him, Tyson went into all those fights on an even level with his opponents, he just wasn't good enough to win.

Bruh, still grabbing at straws. Let it go. You starting to downplay Foreman legacy just because he admitted he wasn't better than a prime Tyson who he too said was the best HW ever.

Seriously, you got to be slow purposely, why?
Evidence is Forman himself saying he felt Tyson was better than him. Not once, but several times EVEN tweeted it louder for the Forman fans like you a couple years back too. That too was just him talking humble talk right?

Your only answer to that is he was just being humble and older. No, Big George tells like it is. One reason i always respected him.

Actually, it does matter what they say as older former champions and more when it comes directly from them...
If Emmitt Smith admits Walter Payton was better than him in his prime, who are you to question it? I could make a good case for both, but i have to believe the man himself at the end of the day no matter my opinion.

Did you ever directly hear Tyson say he was scared shytless of foreman specifically anywhere then or now... I'll wait... and do some more research... Tyson has said he was normally scared before a fight, but you know what that does to someone with a trained killer instinct.

Even Ali told Foreman not to fight a prime Tyson...google the report.

I like Foreman btw and i think he was better during the second come back because he was better mentally.

The point with JY loss is many say 25 and 28 respectively was Foreman's prime. So in his prime he was ok'd and beat unanimously, but, at the least, prime Tyson doesn't get ko'd by Ali or UD by JY. Boxing history enthusiast would say prime Tyson beats that JY by UD or KO easy. Main reason Cus and Rooney more than Tyson's own talent.

Cant help yourself still referencing about the tyson out of his prime can you?

When you say Ali fought fighters much bigger than Tyson that's when I know it's really a moot point to continue to debate with you because what made prime tyson so dangerous was his speed, movement and accurate combinations of power in both hands, training, teaching, technique a ferocious controlled mentality and could also take good punches... no fighter in the history of the heavyweight division ever had this combination together. Nothing to do with being a bigger or smaller fighter.

Its nothing to agree or disagree on your opinion with Tyson being the best HW ever at his prime 19-23 age as your top two both have admitted tyson would have beat them both in his prime vs their prime.

 

[RoomService]

George Foreman and that Foreman was a con man, putting on the old-man show so he'd always be overlooked.

I Definitely believe that foreman is a ConMan. Btw: How many times did tyson lose to Holyfield?

 

[doug777]

Bruh, still grabbing at straws.

The only one grasping at straws is you. Ali and foreman said Tyson was better than them. Instead of realizing that saying that means nothing that it's just older fighters showing respect for their successor you want to take it as gospel. .

You starting to downplay Foreman legacy just because he admitted he wasn't better than a prime Tyson who he too said was the best HW ever.

How have I downplayed Foreman's legacy? Foreman crushed two of the best fighters in the talent rich 1970's while the best fighter Tyson beat by your own admission was Pinklon Thomas.

Evidence is Forman himself saying he felt Tyson was better than him. Not once, but several times EVEN tweeted it louder for the Forman fans like you a couple years back too. That too was just him talking humble talk right?

Yes, that's just talk it means nothing. Ali and Foreman have both fought and beaten fighters as good or better than Tyson, Tyson on the other hand has never beaten a fighter anywhere near the level of those fighters.

Your only answer to that is he was just being humble and older. No, Big George tells like it is. One reason i always respected him.

You ever heard Foreman on HBO talking out the side of his neck, and you have the nerve to say Foreman tells it like it is?

Actually, it does matter what they say as older former champions and more when it comes directly from them...
If Emmitt Smith admits Walter Payton was better than him in his prime, who are you to question it? I could make a good case for both, but i have to believe the man himself at the end of the day no matter my opinion.

It's just talk, really means nothing.

Did you ever directly hear Tyson say he was scared shytless of foreman specifically anywhere then or now... I'll wait...

Well you got me on that one chief, I guess if Tyson never publicly admitted he was scared of a fighter twenty years older than he was it must not have happened.

Even Ali told Foreman not to fight a prime Tyson...google the report.

So Ali told a forty year old Foreman that he shouldn't fight a twenty year old Tyson? What exactly is that supposed to prove? If Holyfield advised a fifty three year old Tyson not to fight Wilder does that mean Holyfield thinks Wilder would beat a young Tyson?

The point with JY loss is many say 25 and 28 respectively was Foreman's prime. So in his prime he was ok'd and beat unanimously, but, at the least, prime Tyson doesn't get ko'd by Ali or UD by JY. Boxing history enthusiast would say prime Tyson beats that JY by UD or KO easy. Main reason Cus and Rooney more than Tyson's own talent.

I know Tyson fans want to claim that somehow after stopping Carl The Truth in the 1st round that Tyson's prime was suddenly over but the truth is Mike Tyson was dominated and brutally knocked out in his prime. You think Ali at his best couldn't do what Douglas did?

Cant help yourself still referencing about the Tyson out of his prime can you?

Like it or not Tyson didn't live up to the hype. One thing that was constant throughout Tyson's entire career until the very end was Tyson's ability to beat mediocre fighters.

When you say Ali fought fighters much bigger than Tyson that's when I know it's really a moot point to continue to debate with you because what made prime tyson so dangerous was his speed, movement and accurate combinations of power in both hands, training, teaching, technique a ferocious controlled mentality and could also take good punches...

I mentioned that to counter what you said about Ali fearing Tyson. Liston and Foreman were both considered monsters in their times if these big men didn't scare Ali, then a 5' 11" Tyson wasn't scaring him. .

no fighter in the history of the heavyweight division ever had this combination together.

No fighter in history has had to beat this combination of weak fighters to win a championship, Trevor Berbick and Bruce Seldon. Now be honest, what's more impressive Ali beating Liston and Foreman to win his championships, Foreman beating Frazier and at age forty five beating Moorer to win his championships or Tyson beating Berbick and Seldon? Now remember you're under oath.

 

[doug777]

I Definitely believe that foreman is a ConMan. Btw: How many times did tyson lose to Holyfield?

Foreman came off as a lovable teddy bear but he was a dangerous fighter and could get dirty. Watch his fight with Alex Stewart to see how dirty he could be.

 

[Tito_Jackson]

Deontay Wilder is trying to set himself for the big payday.

Wilder vs Tyson would do crazy numbers.

 

[the13thround]

Deontay Wilder is trying to set himself for the big payday.

Wilder vs Tyson would do crazy numbers.

This video is two years old.

 

[Joe Money]

This video is two years old.

It has resurfaced and been trending for the past day or so.

 

[Keepthapeace]

The only one grasping at straws is you. Ali and foreman said Tyson was better than them. Instead of realizing that saying that means nothing that it's just older fighters showing respect for their successor you want to take it as gospel. .How have I downplayed Foreman's legacy? Foreman crushed two of the best fighters in the talent rich 1970's while the best fighter Tyson beat by your own admission was Pinklon Thomas.

Yes, that's just talk it means nothing. Ali and Foreman have both fought and beaten fighters as good or better than Tyson, Tyson on the other hand has never beaten a fighter anywhere near the level of those fighters.

You ever heard Foreman on HBO talking out the side of his neck, and you have the nerve to say Foreman tells it like it is?

It's just talk, really means nothing.
Well you got me on that one chief, I guess if Tyson never publicly admitted he was scared of a fighter twenty years older than he was it must not have happened.



So Ali told a forty year old Foreman that he shouldn't fight a twenty year old Tyson? What exactly is that supposed to prove? If Holyfield advised a fifty three year old Tyson not to fight Wilder does that mean Holyfield thinks Wilder would beat a young Tyson?
I know Tyson fans want to claim that somehow after stopping Carl The Truth in the 1st round that Tyson's prime was suddenly over but the truth is Mike Tyson was dominated and brutally knocked out in his prime. You think Ali at his best couldn't do what Douglas did?
Like it or not Tyson didn't live up to the hype. One thing that was constant throughout Tyson's entire career until the very end was Tyson's ability to beat mediocre fighters.
I mentioned that to counter what you said about Ali fearing Tyson. Liston and Foreman were both considered monsters in their times if these big men didn't scare Ali, then a 5' 11" Tyson wasn't scaring him. .No fighter in history has had to beat this combination of weak fighters to win a championship, Trevor Berbick and Bruce Seldon. Now be honest, what's more impressive Ali beating Liston and Foreman to win his championships, Foreman beating Frazier and at age forty five beating Moorer to win his championships or Tyson beating Berbick and Seldon? Now remember you're under oath.

Your only answer is it's just talk... but funny you cant find anything of Tyson saying Foreman would have beat him in his prime or he was scared of Foreman.

I didnt say Ali was fearful of Tyson...only Foreman suggested that. Ali simply said Tyson would beat him. And Ali suggesting Foreman not fight Tyson just shows the respect he had for a prime Tyson as a boxing expert.

So if a professional says another professional can beat him - its just talk huh...

So all the professionals that said Jordan was better than them... except Lebron and Duncan it seems... most, many years later, is just talk?
Oh that's different right...its basketball right?
Notice even an older Foreman never said he felt Holyfield was better than him prime vs prime or older foreman vs prime Holyfield... why only Mike? Whom I believed GF would have beat EH prime vs prime.

Really Bruh? You really cant stop can you.

Read real slow again please...
I specifically said prime Tyson -- not the fight with Buster Dougles... Does it help you that the Tyson that lost to BD could have been beat by UD or KO by both Ali or Foreman IMO?

Do I have to make a flashing gif for you? Prime Tyson was not in the Buster Douglas fight... even if he won... Prime Tyson actually ended after Rooney as I said for the umpteenth time to you, but he still had just enough teaching and training and superior skill set left for Bruno, but any boxing affectionado could see the great fall off.

Finally, something correct... some Tyson "fans" says The truth was his last prime fight... but actual boxing enthusiasts who study boxing and fights know Tyson was done after Rooney the same way prime RJJ was done after his HW fight. Same way VK

Speaking RJJ -- he fought far less champions than Tyson... curious where do you rank a Prime Roy in the pound for pound greats?

 

[doug777]

Your only answer is it's just talk... but funny you cant find anything of Tyson saying Foreman would have beat him in his prime or he was scared of Foreman.

Does this surprise you? Would you really expect Mike Tyson to publicly admit to being afraid of George Foreman? I've never heard Tyson admit he wanted to kick Michael Jordan's ass but just like the Tyson was scared shitless of Foreman incident other people have said this happened.

I didnt say Ali was fearful of Tyson...only Foreman suggested that. Ali simply said Tyson would beat him.

Ali has shown nothing but supreme confidence and no fear of any man in the ring. What would Foreman base this fear on? Ali was never going to fight Tyson so why would he fear him?

And Ali suggesting Foreman not fight Tyson just shows the respect he had for a prime Tyson as a boxing expert.

No, has nothing to do with respecting Tyson, Gil Clancy advised Foreman not to come out of retirement too, not because of any particular fighter but because it's dangerous for any forty year old to enter the ring.

So if a professional says another professional can beat him - its just talk huh...

Seeing as Ali would have no way of knowing if a 1986 Tyson could beat a 1968 Ali I'd say it's talk. At the end of the day Ali, and Foreman's legacies are better than Tyson's.

So all the professionals that said Jordan was better than them... except Lebron and Duncan it seems... most, many years later, is just talk?
Oh that's different right...its basketball right?

Jordan was the best player in the league for nearly his entire career. Tyson was the best heavyweight in the world for only a few years of his overall career and against dubious opposition at that.

Notice even an older Foreman never said he felt Holyfield was better than him prime vs prime or older foreman vs prime Holyfield... why only Mike?

Foreman is entitled to his opinion just like anyone else.

Whom I believed GF would have beat EH prime vs prime.

Would've been a great fight I lean towards Foreman also.

Really Bruh? You really cant stop can you.

Read real slow again please...
I specifically said prime Tyson -- not the fight with Buster Dougles...

You seem to be the exception when it comes to Tyson fans, most Tyson fans blame this loss on Tyson not training, sleeping with Japanese prostitutes, and doing coke. You however just say no, he just went from what you believe was the best heavyweight of all time to just an ordinarily fighter overnight.

Do I have to make a flashing gif for you? Prime Tyson was not in the Buster Douglas fight... even if he won... Prime Tyson actually ended after Rooney as I said for the umpteenth time to you, but he still had just enough teaching and training and superior skill set left for Bruno, but any boxing affectionado could see the great fall off.

So it's not really Tyson that you believe is the best you believe Team Tyson is the best?
Tyson started boxing at twelve had sixty amateur fights, forty pro fights and forgets everything he's learned two fights after firing his trainer? If you really believe this how is this not a flaw in your fighter?

Tyson "fans" says The truth was his last prime fight... but actual boxing enthusiasts who study boxing and fights know Tyson was done after Rooney the same way prime RJJ was done after his HW fight. Same way VK

The only people who believe Tyson was done after Rooney are Tyson fans. No young fighter has ever went from being one of the best in the world to an also ran overnight without an injury or career changing fight. Couple of examples, Fernando Vargas was never the same after the Trinidad fight and Meldrick Taylor who was never the same after losing to Chavez. Also Jones had already loss a step or two even before moving up to heavyweight.

Speaking RJJ -- he fought far less champions than Tyson... curious where do you rank a Prime Roy in the pound for pound greats?

I think Jones beat ten champions, and also three Hall Of Fame fighters but McCallum was old when he fought Jones. I would put Jones second behind Ali.

 

[Keepthapeace]

Does this surprise you? Would you really expect Mike Tyson to publicly admit to being afraid of George Foreman? I've never heard Tyson admit he wanted to kick Michael Jordan's ass but just like the Tyson was scared shitless of Foreman incident other people have said this happened.
Ali has shown nothing but supreme confidence and no fear of any man in the ring. What would Foreman base this fear on? Ali was never going to fight Tyson so why would he fear him? No, has nothing to do with respecting Tyson, Gil Clancy advised Foreman not to come out of retirement too, not because of any particular fighter but because it's dangerous for any forty year old to enter the ring.
Seeing as Ali would have no way of knowing if a 1986 Tyson could beat a 1968 Ali I'd say it's talk. At the end of the day Ali, and Foreman's legacies are better than Tyson's.
Jordan was the best player in the league for nearly his entire career. Tyson was the best heavyweight in the world for only a few years of his overall career and against dubious opposition at that.
Foreman is entitled to his opinion just like anyone else.
Would've been a great fight I lean towards Foreman also.
You seem to be the exception when it comes to Tyson fans, most Tyson fans blame this loss on Tyson not training, sleeping with Japanese prostitutes, and doing coke. You however just say no, he just went from what you believe was the best heavyweight of all time to just an ordinarily fighter overnight.
So it's not really Tyson that you believe is the best you believe Team Tyson is the best?
Tyson started boxing at twelve had sixty amateur fights, forty pro fights and forgets everything he's learned two fights after firing his trainer? If you really believe this how is this not a flaw in your fighter?
The only people who believe Tyson was done after Rooney are Tyson fans. No young fighter has ever went from being one of the best in the world to an also ran overnight without an injury or career changing fight. Couple of examples, Fernando Vargas was never the same after the Trinidad fight and Meldrick Taylor who was never the same after losing to Chavez. Also Jones had already loss a step or two even before moving up to heavyweight.
I think Jones beat ten champions, and also three Hall Of Fame fighters but McCallum was old when he fought Jones. I would put Jones second behind Ali.

Okay so now its understandable why you dont put prime Tyson #1 you really dont know boxing as evident by the team tyson comment.

Sounds like you never played sports either and had a good coach vs an avg to bad coach

Here is a news flash, some boxers get their most potential from centain trainers. In the case of Tyson he had talent but he needed both cus and Rooney to max it. Just look at the difference of Lennox Lewis and VK with Steward.

Well, you say things that seem to be fact when you should be saying arguably because there's no definite fact that both Foreman and Ali's legacies are better than Tyson's in what respect is got to be the next question? You admitted no HW boxer dominated 8 HW champions KOing 6 and they both admitted prime Tyson would have beat them.

Again you mean Jordan was arguably the best player nearly his whole his career... there were 10 players better during more than half his career as per the NBA. But they just talking too right?

Now, if you take a time period as I did with Mike Tyson, then you probably could argue he was the best ever during that time period.

Ever watch Mike Tyson's hot boxing podcast? Yes, he's in a better place to be honest so I would think he would admit if a prime Foreman could beat a prime Tyson. Watch the Holyfield episode he gave Holyfield his respect.

Interesting you said RJJ beat 10 champions and I'm guessing besides the 2 hall of famers... the rest were are not "weak" champions like Mike fought and he didn't fight in a weak era like Tyson right? I would argue that the prime Tyson champions he dominated catalog is better than RJJ.

I counted (over a 13 year period to Mike's 4 year period) 8 champs RJJ (didnt count MG) beat and they both each fought two hall of famers...Tyson happen to dominate his two. RJJ went 12 rounds.

RJJ didn't dominate as many champs oking only kelly and hill.

By your own metric, prime Tyson should be at least ranked #2 all time.

I seem to be an exception "fan"... bruh stop it...

You don't even realize that a trainer can make a big difference in a talented boxer...

Here's a good lesson on the difference between a fan and a boxing aficionado go to start at 12:45

 

[doug777]

Okay so now its understandable why you dont put prime Tyson #1 you really dont know boxing as evident by the team tyson comment.

You said,. "but actual boxing enthusiasts who study boxing and fights know Tyson was done after Rooney " These are your words. You said within two fights after firing his trainer, Tyson in your eyes went from the best heavyweight in the world to just another fighter. Was Tyson a great fighter on his own or did he need Rooney to be great? You literally said Tyson wasn't the same fighter after he fired Rooney but then say I don't know boxing because I said Team Tyson.

Sounds like you never played sports either and had a good coach vs an avg to bad coach

I forget, was Michael Jordon a great player under Doug Collins or just Phil Jackson?

Here is a news flash, some boxers get their most potential from centain trainers. In the case of Tyson he had talent but he needed both cus and Rooney to max it. Just look at the difference of Lennox Lewis and VK with Steward.

Give me an example of any athlete that went from the best in the world to ordinary just because of a coaching change. The same level of fighter Tyson beat under Rooney was the same level of fighter Tyson beat after he was fired. Look, at the end of the day all this nonsense about trainers is just excuses. Tyson got his ass beat by Douglas because Douglas was better. Did Douglas, Holyfield, or Lewis have an unfair advantage over Tyson? If not, then Tyson lost all those fights fair and square.

Well, you say things that seem to be fact when you should be saying arguably because there's no definite fact that both Foreman and Ali's legacies are better than Tyson's in what respect is got to be the next question?

Ali and Foreman fought and beat much better fighters than Tyson. Foreman beat a man that was unquestionably the best heavyweight in the world to win his first world championship and then became a world champion again at the age of forty five. Ali beat a fighter that was unquestionably the best heavyweight in the world to win his first world championship, then years later beat a man that was unquestionably the best heavyweight in the world to win his second championship. Tyson became the youngest heavyweight champion of all time by beating a man who no one thought was the best heavyweight in the world and years later he again beat a man no one thought was the best heavyweight in the world to win his second championship. Ali: Liston, Foreman. Foreman: Frazier, Moorer. Tyson: Berbick, Seldon, you do the math.

You admitted no HW boxer dominated 8 HW champions KOing 6 and they both admitted prime Tyson would have beat them.

You said the best fighter Tyson ever beat was Pinklon Thomas, nuff said.

Interesting you said RJJ beat 10 champions and I'm guessing besides the 2 hall of famers... the rest were are not "weak" champions like Mike fought and he didn't fight in a weak era like Tyson right? I would argue that the prime Tyson champions he dominated catalog is better than RJJ.

One was Vinny Pazienza fighting at about forty pounds over his best weight. You see how just being a champion before didn't magically put Pazienza on the same level as Jones, all champions are not created equally. With the exception of Holmes and Spinks, no champ Tyson beat compares to James Toney.

I counted (over a 13 year period to Mike's 4 year period) 8 champs RJJ (didnt count MG) beat and they both each fought two hall of famers...Tyson happen to dominate his two. RJJ went 12 rounds.

Tyson was supposed to dominate a thirty eight year old inactive fighter and a blown up light heavyweight.

By your own metric, prime Tyson should be at least ranked #2 all time.

What metric is that?

I seem to be an exception "fan"... bruh stop it...

I don't understand. Most Tyson fans believe Tyson loss the Douglas fight because he didn't train, you're the only one that I've heard that believes he loss because his prime ended.

You don't even realize that a trainer can make a big difference in a talented boxer...

I understand a trainer can make a difference but it's unheard of for an elite veteran fighter to go from elite to ordinary because of a coaching change.