The most confusing bit about Kanye West for me...

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When did Kanye West become this self proclaimed genius? Maybe I'm old-school, maybe I'm out of touch, but in the era where we celebrate mediocrity with such vigor, when did Kanye's platform become as big as people make it seem?

Because I simply don't see it.

I even hesitate to call him a "musical genius" and maybe that's a testament to growing up at about the same time he did, making beats on an MPC, making music as everyone did in the 90s pretty much, I never really felt like he was the greatest to ever do it. He has put out some good albums and some great tracks but that's about it.

When I think of people more deserving of that title, Dr. Dre is in position for such accolades, alongside a Snoop Dogg or a Biggie or even a Tupac. Jay-Z is simply in a world of his own, but listening to Kanye speak, he has this arrogance as if he's in this category with these legends, and I wanna when this took place and how? This guy has recently been comparing himself to Michael Jackson, Prince, Steve Jobs, Walt Disney, Albert Einstein and countless others who actually deserved the genius title.

Comical and mistaken.

When did we, as a hip hop community raise this guy to those levels? Or did we? Is this all just media hype?

What's your opinion on this? Do you think he's as good as he or others may believe, or are you as confused as I am?
maybe it's him thinking outside the box. But musically he can put some shit together above his peers
 
Not sure I'd call him a genius...but one thing he shares with geniuses is weirdness..if you've ever really checked out one, they're usually weird as shit...prolly cuz they have so much talent in one area, theyre lacking in common sense.

He's not a genius, he can make some hot beats but there was nothing so inventive that he was ahead of his time. He was skilled at chopping and making arrogant and introspective songs. He's not next level

And this is what I was saying earlier. He's good at what he does, but he's putting himself in the conversations with some of the greatest musicians the world has ever seen with his small catalogue and shoe sales.
 
he was a “breath of fresh air” and indeed influential to some...doesn’t equate to being a genius...that’s why so many ppl are disappointed now...put dude on too high a pedestal

I wanna know where the hell that pedestal came from cause it wasn't the black community that's for damn sure. Homey did his thing, but he rose super quick when he went missing.

Man that Kris Jenner knows voodoo I swear
 
Look, I don't like the muthafucka no more myself but let's don't play dude like he didn't make a mark in this game. That's the only reason he's even able to even frustrate people now if it wasn't for his music career. This dude stood out on a label that featured State Property, Dipset, Jay, Bleek, etc. He was never suppose to be popular or even relevant.

:yes: Case in point
 
maybe it's him thinking outside the box. But musically he can put some shit together above his peers
That's fair and again musically, he's really good.

But genius level? I still don't understand that SNL skit. Funny thing is, idk if he does either.
 
That's fair and again musically, he's really good.

But genius level? I still don't understand that SNL skit. Funny thing is, idk if he does either.
The bar can't just be Prince and Quincy Jones though. Who are some genius NOW? Like who is the Quincy Jones of this era? We consider Timbo and Pharrell geniuses?
 
lol...you can’t force it and demand that there be one
I'm asking genuinely though. Like off the rip I can't think of anyone who we consider a genius in our culture. Like I'd consider Jay a musical genius. But because he's a rapper.....people don't seem to think you can rap and be a musical genius because rap isn't valued as true art which I disagree with.

My Beautiful Dark Fantasy is the work of a mad genius. Musically....that's one of the best albums I've ever heard.
 
The bar can't just be Prince and Quincy Jones though. Who are some genius NOW? Like who is the Quincy Jones of this era? We consider Timbo and Pharrell geniuses?
Pharrell is pretty damn close. I'd take Hov in a heartbeat as THE musical genius, alongside Dr. Dre (debatable), however... just because there's a void doesn't mean it needs to be filled with whoever.
 
Pharrell is pretty damn close. I'd take Hov in a heartbeat as THE musical genius, alongside Dr. Dre (debatable), however... just because there's a void doesn't mean it needs to be filled with whoever.

if it’s true that jay z doesn’t write down any of his rhymes esp. given the caliber of his lyricism I’d def feel comfortable classifying him as a lyrical genius...on the other hand if someone told me lil pump didn’t write down his rhymes I’d tell them to fuck off
 
Pharrell is pretty damn close. I'd take Hov in a heartbeat as THE musical genius, alongside Dr. Dre (debatable), however... just because there's a void doesn't mean it needs to be filled with whoever.
I agree but is there a void or are we more critical now? We've all been molded into much harsher critics than those before us were. Its like the Jordan v Lebron debate. Younger heads are going to side with Lebron and the older heads are gonna sign with MJ just because he came first.
 
if it’s true that jay z doesn’t write down any of his rhymes esp. given the caliber of his lyricism I’d def feel comfortable classifying him as a lyrical genius...on the other hand if someone told me lil pump didn’t write down his rhymes I’d tell them to fuck off
I've never doubted that notion about Hov only cause my man had the exact same technique back in the day. We'd get in the studio and the engineer would ask for a lyric sheet and this dude would point at me like, "thats my lyric sheet..." Dudes couldn't believe that shit lol.

So Ive never questioned Hov's ability in that regard.

Lil Pump however...

Yea..
 
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I agree but is there a void or are we more critical now? We've all been molded into much harsher critics than those before us were. Its like the Jordan v Lebron debate. Younger heads are going to side with Lebron and the older heads are gonna sign with MJ just because he came first.

Great point. I think we're more critical today for sure, but not because of chronological generational judgment. It's simply because we came from arguably the best era of hip-hop music, so our standards are far far greater than what the youth are able to cope with and manage today .
 
Our generation and generations in general are alot more self centered and into getting notoriety before substance. How many rappers proclaim themselves the GOAT? Lebron calling himself "The Chosen One" in HS. In generations past, the best never really told people they were the best.They let OTHER people say it.This is why Ali stood out. He was one of the few to really proclaim himself that he was the greatest.
 
Great point. I think we're more critical today for sure, but not because of chronological generational judgment. It's simply because we came from arguably the best era of hip-hop music, so our standards are far far greater than what the youth are able to cope with and manage today .
That's a big part of it too. But we have to find that balance. I don't think none of us have. My bar when it comes to classic records and music is longevity and can it hold its own to other classic material that dropped in the 90's which IMO is the golden era of hip hop. IMO, Kanye got 3 albums you can take to the 90's with you and live up to that material.
 
interesting...if anything I feel the bar has been lowered...young folks nowadays seem to demand twice the credit for half the effort and anyone who disagrees is quickly labeled a “hater” as if that nullifies the argument
I mean it depends who you talking to. If you talking to a dumb ass Uzi Vert fan or a Tekashi fan them niggas are gonna say some outlandish shit and have outlandish opinions because they are more than likely dope fiends addicted to pills. So yeah their bar is gonna be low. But as a whole? We are mush harsher critics. Everyone is a critic now. And when it comes to online...its even worse. Everyone wants to be controversial and speak in hyperbole. Hard to even get a honest opinion nowadays.
 
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I mean it depends who you talking to. If you talking to a dumb ass Uzi Vert fan or a Tekashi fan them niggas are gonna say some outlandish shit and have outlandish opinions because they are more than likely dope fiends addicted to pills. So yeah their bar is gonna be low. But as a whole? We are mush harsher critics. Everyone is a critic now. And when it comes to online...its even worse. Everyone wants to be controversial and speak in hyperbole. Hard to even get a honest opinion nowadays.

I don’t think what I emboldened only applies to fans of “low caliber” music tho...ie uzi fans...tekashi fans et tal...that’s why kanye is doing what he’s doing now...he’s been doing it for years actually
 
To kanye’s credit though. He has a lot of life left to really do something. Unless he goes of the cliff. Literally.

But see...

that's the thing...

besides Mel Gibson?

Who came back from anti Semitic statements?

besides Woody Allen...who right NOW gonna get away with essentially molesting their adopted daughter?

why SHOULD we accept him back?

Isn't it a more POWERFUL lesson is for coons (well more properly in this case ENEMIES of our people) to be excommunicated?

Not for having a differing opnoin or political stance but for LITERALLY SUPPORTING an ENEMY to our people?
 
But see...

that's the thing...

besides Mel Gibson?

Who came back from anti Semitic statements?

besides Woody Allen...who right NOW gonna get away with essentially molesting their adopted daughter?

why SHOULD we accept him back?

Isn't it a more POWERFUL lesson is for coons (well more properly in this case ENEMIES of our people) to be excommunicated?

Not for having a differing opnoin or political stance but for LITERALLY SUPPORTING an ENEMY to our people?

I don't have any authority on what the Black Community does in how they see Kanye.

He shouldn't be accepted, but he does have back by some of his fans.

What if he genuinely (by showing on a consistent basis) changes his stance? Should he not be forgiven? Or is he forever not to be trusted?
 
he was a “breath of fresh air” and indeed influential to some...doesn’t equate to being a genius...that’s why so many ppl are disappointed now...put dude on too high a pedestal

I call that the Cosby effect. :yes:

I've been rolling with that when me and my students are discussing how we view celebrities and how influence plays a huge part in how people perceives things.

Very few people I hold on a high pedestal; Malcolm, Martin, Ali, Tubman to give an example.

Never will I put an entertainer of any sorts on high levels again. The less about THEM I know, the more I can appreciate their work.
 
I don't have any authority on what the Black Community does in how they see Kanye.

He shouldn't be accepted, but he does have back by some of his fans.

What if he genuinely (by showing on a consistent basis) changes his stance? Should he not be forgiven? Or is he forever not to be trusted?

I don't think ANY of do or SHOULD have that authority

but I think what has harmed our progression particularly financially is our inability to agree collectively on ANYTHING.

But this to me is near unacceptable ...when Stephen A Smith even condemns you? DAMN (while cooning himself right after)

You know there is a common thought that Black people are the MOST forgiving people to their determent..

I wonder if Native Americans are asked to forgive like we are

or Jews with direct ties to the Holocaust?

Or even the Asians that suffered in the US after WWII?

After what Kanye has done

if he went on Instagram and apologized after his album was released

would that be enough for YOU?
 
http://www.tmz.com/2018/05/02/damon-wayans-jr-kanye-west-rich-white-dude-slavery-choice/


Damon Wayans Jr. thinks Kanye West's forgetting what life was like before he was a celebrity, and that's why he put on the MAGA hat, but ultimately, he's willing to let the whole thing slide.

We got Damon Wednesday at LAX, where he admitted he's not the biggest fan of Kanye's music -- but he thinks the comment he made about President Trump and slavery during "TMZ Live" will earn him a new fan base. Damon's even got a name for them.

He thinks Ye's upcoming record sales likely won't plummet because even he'd listen, which means old fans will too. And yes, he's giving Kanye the pass ... under one condition.
 
I don't think ANY of do or SHOULD have that authority

but I think what has harmed our progression particularly financially is our inability to agree collectively on ANYTHING.

But this to me is near unacceptable ...when Stephen A Smith even condemns you? DAMN (while cooning himself right after)

You know there is a common thought that Black people are the MOST forgiving people to their determent..

I wonder if Native Americans are asked to forgive like we are

or Jews with direct ties to the Holocaust?

Or even the Asians that suffered in the US after WWII?

After what Kanye has done

if he went on Instagram and apologized after his album was released

would that be enough for YOU?

I'm good on Kanye.

If I never listen to anything else he does it wouldn't bother me a bit.

He's a small part to our greater issues, so he's really getting too much attention. But because of his platform he get all the attention.
 
http://www.tmz.com/2018/05/02/damon-wayans-jr-kanye-west-rich-white-dude-slavery-choice/


Damon Wayans Jr. thinks Kanye West's forgetting what life was like before he was a celebrity, and that's why he put on the MAGA hat, but ultimately, he's willing to let the whole thing slide.

We got Damon Wednesday at LAX, where he admitted he's not the biggest fan of Kanye's music -- but he thinks the comment he made about President Trump and slavery during "TMZ Live" will earn him a new fan base. Damon's even got a name for them.

He thinks Ye's upcoming record sales likely won't plummet because even he'd listen, which means old fans will too. And yes, he's giving Kanye the pass ... under one condition.

I mentioned that to my wife last night.

Kanye is jaded.
 
I'm good on Kanye.

If I never listen to anything else he does it wouldn't bother me a bit.

He's a small part to our greater issues, so he's really getting too much attention. But because of his platform he get all the attention.


You know I actually agree and hear that a lot from people I respect


but I don't like underestimating figures like him


we live in a MUCH different time

You see who are president is right?

You see how much Kardashians make right?

I just don't think its wise to under estimate his effect.
 
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He’s done some good things, but not a musical genius. Be he is good at what he does.

He is an extreme narcissist. So his accomplishments have fed right into his ego. I never considered him a musics genius in comparison to other hip hop producers. He’s not even in my top 5 hip hop producers much less in overall producers.

Curtis Mayfield is a musics genius, IMO. So is Quincy Jones. Fela Kuti is next level. So my bar is real high and very few hip hop producers comes into that realm.

Yeah he's not really close to top 5 in Hiphop

RZA, J Dilla, Madlib, Dr. Dre, Marly Marl, Pete Rock, DJ Premier, Larry Smith (Whodini/Run DMC), shit I'll even put Alchemist ahead of him. There's alot of producers ahead of him right now
 
You know I actually agree and hear that a lot from people I respect


but I don;t like underestimating figures like him


we live in a MUCH different time

You see who are president is right?

You see how much Kardashians make right?

I just don't think its wise to under estimate his effect.

True. He is influential, but with this amount of people calling him out (specially Black folk), he shit is getting put in check.

If anything, this seems to be another talking point for the right. You know, the black guy that agrees with their opinion.

From what I have seen, people has been calling him out, but I have talked with some that are trying to see his side and understand where he is coming from.

The problem with those folks is they are missing the historical context, so they can't fully grasp how ridiculous his statements were.

As long as people are willing to be taught, then I can give a pass. So those that were empathizing with him, I help them understand from a historical perspective.

Some information really helps people understand something better.
 
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