Has LeBron Passed Kobe?
- Thread starter Art Vandelay
- Start date
Yeah. Shit has been weak sauce.
From 2005-2007 Kobe's teams did not face the Western Conference champ. They kept losing to Phoenix who were not a good defensive team at all, nor did they even go to the Finals. In 2008 the toughest team they faced was in the east, the Boston Celtics. In 09 they did see a scrappy Rockets team on their way to a championship. 2010 best team they faced again was the Boston Celtics who took em to 7 games. Most years Kobe faced Utah Jazz, Phoenix Suns, Denver Nuggets, none of which were noted for defense, just offense. He saw the Spurs ONCE from 04-10 and never faced Dirk and the Mavs in that time. People exaggerate the level of comp he saw out west.
You cats love leaving off a in his prime Lamar Odom when you mention those Smush teams dont you?
Odom was easily better than anything Lebron had on that team he dragged to the finals. And Kobe missed the playoffs in his prime entirely with a team of Odom, Caron Butler and Chucky Atkins all having one of their best years. Unacceptable. No way in hell Lebron wins 30 games and ends up in the fucking lottery with that team.
No way in Hell
You could've put Lebron on the Knicks to start this season and they would be in the playoffs
Maybe even a 4 seed
Trade him to the Wolves they might even get in
And he damn sure and being an 8th seed with Pau Gasol and Dwight Howard I don't give a fuck who the coach is
The only decant team the Lakers ever beat was Boston and that was after Perk got injured... They got beat by Boston, destroyed by Detriot.. But look who they beat..
The Nets who best player was Kid...
The 76ers who only had Iverson
The Pacers who only had a old Miller
The Magic who only had pussy ass Howard..
So to me the only finals they half way get props for is the Boston series and that was the finals where Kobe got bailed the fuck out by his two 7 footers..
Man you saved me a lot of typing, because I was going to say the same exact thing... Plus Kobe's biggest games in the playoffs came vs the Suns, one of the worst defensive team playoff teams in the nba history..
Thats the thing about the West, they dont play D over there. A lot of offensively talented squads, but defense is an afterthought. Which is why the team that usually comes out of there is the strongest defensively (ex: Spurs the last 2 years, Golden State this year). In the east its the opposite, most teams play D and are better defensively than on offense, so usually the best offensive team comes out the conference. Think of teams like Knicks and Pacers of the 90s that were great defensive squads but could never get by the Jordan led Bulls. Think of teams like the Bulls and Pacers of this era, great defensive teams with weak offenses who couldnt get by Miami Heat.
Plus the teams in the east will beat you up, shit look at the Cavs team this year, where everyone of their starers except for Mazgov got injured at one time or another during this playoff drive... Meanwhile in the West all they had to deal with is run and gun teams trying to push it up court..
You know there will be 67% for Kobe even if LeBron were to go 7-0 in the finales and have 9 mvp's... Because the tally is the same BBSC 31% who feel that Jordan at 50 plus can beat LeBron today, coupled with the % of BBSC Kobe fans who feel he is the greatest player of all time... Add in a sprinkle of salty CAC's and a few Knick and Celtic fans and you have the perfect storm of unreasonable hate..
So it doesn't matter how much stats we can pump out, how much reasoning we can imply, there is no reasoning with them..
So it doesn't matter how much stats we can pump out, how much reasoning we can imply, there is no reasoning with them..
BGOL has always been pro-Lakers/pro-Kobe. Being this is a porn board, and the porn industry is based in Southern California, shouldnt be surprising. It's alot of LA dudes on here, a lot of Laker fans, a lot of people who grew up watching Kobe. I actually found BGOL in 2000 when someone linked a thread about Kobe meeting the Williams sisters on another board I was at.
The kicker is that outside of rings and strength of conference no ones really made a compelling argument why Kobe is better. No mention of skill sets, individual accolades, head to head matchups. They just say "no" in a very vague manner.
^^^This
I got a buddy of mine who is numbskull. He's a former Jordan lover and a recovering Hobe stan and he is exactly like this. Can't talk to him about skill, head to heads or any substantiated one to one comparison. All he counts is <s>team accomplishments</s> rings
Yo this thread is pulling some of the crazies out of the woodshed... Think about it, in a poll at the season, more people here picked the Lakers to win the finals than the Warriors and Cavs put together, BBSC!!!!
So to me this poll is like asking crackheads what would be better for you to have for dinner a vegetarian dish or crack...
To end this madness with this little bit of reasoning, no top 5 player in any sport, to my knowledge has ever won only one mvp...
Even if you cry Kobe was robbed two times, shit LeBron and Jordan was robbed at least twice also, and its common for most greats to get robbed... But what is his excuse for not winning it all those other years?
To be top 5 you have to at least have three MVP's just to show that you was at least top of the board in your era..
For Kobe to play all those years on top teams and only have one MVP tells a lot about him as a player...
So to me this poll is like asking crackheads what would be better for you to have for dinner a vegetarian dish or crack...
To end this madness with this little bit of reasoning, no top 5 player in any sport, to my knowledge has ever won only one mvp...
Even if you cry Kobe was robbed two times, shit LeBron and Jordan was robbed at least twice also, and its common for most greats to get robbed... But what is his excuse for not winning it all those other years?
To be top 5 you have to at least have three MVP's just to show that you was at least top of the board in your era..
For Kobe to play all those years on top teams and only have one MVP tells a lot about him as a player...
As much as I like Lebron and think he is a better all around player than Kobe and Jordan. The only thing people are really concerned with are the titles. Let's just be honest. It's the only reason people are reluctant to really put Lebron over Kobe or Jordan. Those of you arguing about stats and conference competition and other nuance of basketball you have to because the lack of titles Lebron has can't speak in place.
Idc what yall say else matters, its the titles everyone is fighting for. It's why Lebron left Cleveland in the first place to chase a title in Miami. If we appreciated and respect the players based on stats, like titles didn't mean that much conversation like this wouldnt be happening. There are a lot of great ball players but we use their titles or lack thereof to separate them from the rest of the greats. 6 times Jordan was able to close the deal in Chicago, 5 times Kobe was able to close the deal in LA. 2 times Lebron was able to close the deal in Miami with 5 finals appearances. It's the lack of titles, let's just be honest about it.
If Lebron had 4 or 5 titles behind him it be a lot easier for many to put him over Lebron and Jordan. Let's just keep it funky and stop bullshittin with yourselves about it. We can talk all day about what worked in who's favor or didn't at the time but at the end of the day titles are what every franchise is looking at, and what every player is ultimately fighting for.
Idc what yall say else matters, its the titles everyone is fighting for. It's why Lebron left Cleveland in the first place to chase a title in Miami. If we appreciated and respect the players based on stats, like titles didn't mean that much conversation like this wouldnt be happening. There are a lot of great ball players but we use their titles or lack thereof to separate them from the rest of the greats. 6 times Jordan was able to close the deal in Chicago, 5 times Kobe was able to close the deal in LA. 2 times Lebron was able to close the deal in Miami with 5 finals appearances. It's the lack of titles, let's just be honest about it.
If Lebron had 4 or 5 titles behind him it be a lot easier for many to put him over Lebron and Jordan. Let's just keep it funky and stop bullshittin with yourselves about it. We can talk all day about what worked in who's favor or didn't at the time but at the end of the day titles are what every franchise is looking at, and what every player is ultimately fighting for.
Well being that basketball is such a team sport titles really show that Kobe played on better teams... Does the fact that Fisher has more rings than Iverson make him a better player or the fact that Dirk has more rings than Malone, make him a better PF?
If this is anybody reasoning, boy you are opening a can of worms that you really don't want to open..
Title rings are for the best team, MVP awards are for the best player... Lets not mix apples with oranges..
Kobe Bryant (1,280 regular season games)
25.0 points (45.0 FG%), 5.2 rebounds, 4.7 assists, 1.4 steals, 0.5 blocks, 33.4 3PT%, 83.7 FT%, 3.0 TOV
(220 playoff games)
25.6 points (44.8 FG%), 5.1 rebounds, 4.7 assists, 1.4 steals, 0.7 blocks, 33.1 3PT%, 81.6 FT%, 2.9 TOV
(37 NBA Finals games)
25.3 points (41.4 FG%), 5.7 rebounds, 5.1 assists, 1.8 steals, 0.9 blocks, 31.3 3PT%, 84.7 FT%, 3.3 TOV
Top 3 all time points scored
Most FG attempts in history
Top 30 all time assists
Top 15 all time steals
17-time All-Star
15-time All-NBA
12-time All-Defense
2-time scoring champ
4-time All-Star MVP
'08 NBA MVP
2-time Finals MVP
5-time NBA Champ ('00, '01, '02, '09, '10)
LeBron James (911 regular season games)
27.3 points (49.6 FG%), 7.1 rebounds, 6.9 assists, 1.7 steals, 0.8 blocks, 34.2 3PT%, 74.5 FT%, 3.4 TOV
(173 playoff games)
28.0 points (47.7 FG%), 8.6 rebounds, 6.6 assists, 1.7 steals, 0.9 blocks, 31.8 3PT%, 75.4 FT%, 3.5 TOV
(28 NBA Finals Games)
25.0 points (46.3 FG%), 8.8 rebounds, 6.4 assists, 1.7 steals, 0.5 blocks, 33.0 3PT% 75.1 FT% 3.8 TOV
Top 20 all time points scored
Top 30 all time assists
Top 35 all time steals
11-time All-Star
11-time All-NBA
6-time All-Defense
'08 scoring champ
'04 Rookie Of The Year
4-time NBA MVP
2-time All-Star MVP
2-time Finals MVP
2-time NBA Champ ('12, '13)
HEAD TO HEAD
LeBron leads series 14-6 (20 games)
Kobe (6-14)
25.0 points (42.2 FG%), 5.0 rebounds, 5.5 assists, 1.1 steals, 0.2 blocks, 31.3 3PT%, 84.7 FT%, 3.4 TOV
LeBron (14-6)
28.4 points (46.4 FG%), 7.6 rebounds, 7.2 assists, 2.1 steals, 0.7 blocks, 31.3 3PT%, 70.5 FT%, 3.5 TOV
25.0 points (45.0 FG%), 5.2 rebounds, 4.7 assists, 1.4 steals, 0.5 blocks, 33.4 3PT%, 83.7 FT%, 3.0 TOV
(220 playoff games)
25.6 points (44.8 FG%), 5.1 rebounds, 4.7 assists, 1.4 steals, 0.7 blocks, 33.1 3PT%, 81.6 FT%, 2.9 TOV
(37 NBA Finals games)
25.3 points (41.4 FG%), 5.7 rebounds, 5.1 assists, 1.8 steals, 0.9 blocks, 31.3 3PT%, 84.7 FT%, 3.3 TOV
Top 3 all time points scored
Most FG attempts in history
Top 30 all time assists
Top 15 all time steals
17-time All-Star
15-time All-NBA
12-time All-Defense
2-time scoring champ
4-time All-Star MVP
'08 NBA MVP
2-time Finals MVP
5-time NBA Champ ('00, '01, '02, '09, '10)
LeBron James (911 regular season games)
27.3 points (49.6 FG%), 7.1 rebounds, 6.9 assists, 1.7 steals, 0.8 blocks, 34.2 3PT%, 74.5 FT%, 3.4 TOV
(173 playoff games)
28.0 points (47.7 FG%), 8.6 rebounds, 6.6 assists, 1.7 steals, 0.9 blocks, 31.8 3PT%, 75.4 FT%, 3.5 TOV
(28 NBA Finals Games)
25.0 points (46.3 FG%), 8.8 rebounds, 6.4 assists, 1.7 steals, 0.5 blocks, 33.0 3PT% 75.1 FT% 3.8 TOV
Top 20 all time points scored
Top 30 all time assists
Top 35 all time steals
11-time All-Star
11-time All-NBA
6-time All-Defense
'08 scoring champ
'04 Rookie Of The Year
4-time NBA MVP
2-time All-Star MVP
2-time Finals MVP
2-time NBA Champ ('12, '13)
HEAD TO HEAD
LeBron leads series 14-6 (20 games)
Kobe (6-14)
25.0 points (42.2 FG%), 5.0 rebounds, 5.5 assists, 1.1 steals, 0.2 blocks, 31.3 3PT%, 84.7 FT%, 3.4 TOV
LeBron (14-6)
28.4 points (46.4 FG%), 7.6 rebounds, 7.2 assists, 2.1 steals, 0.7 blocks, 31.3 3PT%, 70.5 FT%, 3.5 TOV
Last edited:
as far as IMPRESSIVENESS...Lebron hasnt even passed D Rose...in my book.
And Kobe is still a bitch who feasted off riding shotgun with Shaq.
And Kobe is still a bitch who feasted off riding shotgun with Shaq.
If you are not willing to concede Bill Russell, Sam Jones, and John Havlicek as being better than Michael Jordan, it invalidates your argument. It cant be ONLY Jordan and Kobe's rings count. If its just about rings Michael Jordan is not top 5.
Kobe has always won when he had a dominant (or all-star) big man. Shaq. Pau (truth be told, Pau should have won Finals MVP LA's last chip).
Bron has never had anyone with any kind of post game.
Kobe's path to greatness has been much easier.
Bron has never had anyone with any kind of post game.
Kobe's path to greatness has been much easier.
Oh the irony...
@ in your book
And in reality, D Rose hasn't even passed Lebron in the East
@ in your book
And in reality, D Rose hasn't even passed Lebron in the East
We know who the great players are with or without rings, their talent speaks for itself. No one would ever say Fisher is a greater player than Iverson because we know the difference.
If it's about MVPs all of a sudden? Then how come you aren't comparing Kareem Abdul Jabbar and not Kobe who only has 1 MVP? Because he has titles rings and is herald as an heirs apparent to Jordan even without all the MVPs. Just like Lebron is herald as an air apparent to Jordan and Kobe, only thing missing is nearly as many titles. Most recognize and associate Jordan by his six titles, more than his 5 MVP awards.
Let's just keep it real and accept that fact. Until Lebron gets those titles many won't really put him above the rest, because even with all his MVPs and stats he still didn't come close to Jordan or Kobe as the greatest player in the league.
Kareem>>>>Kobe.. You can be on board a good team, and get a title but no way in the world you can fake the funk to get a MVP much less over three... Thats why I say that before you can be in the conversation of G.O.A.T. have at least three MVP's at least show some dominance in your era before you start compairing them to people of other eras..
People associate Jordan with the titles because of the dramatic way he did it and the way he lead those teams... Shit Kobe wasn't even the leader in some of those Lakers titles..
Oh the irony...
@ in your book
And in reality, D Rose hasn't even passed Lebron in the East
Don't pay him no mind, he's a 31 percenter (special people that believe that Jordan at 5O can beat LeBron today)..
Kobe's career high in points in the Finals: 40 points (Game 1 vs. ORL, 2009)
LeBron's career high in points in the the Finals: 44 points (Game 1 vs. GS, 2015)
LeBron's career high in points in the the Finals: 44 points (Game 1 vs. GS, 2015)
This...at this point it's undeniable that Lebron can turn a team around faster than anyone. Whether he has a enough to win a chip is one thing..but Lebron has done more with less the entirety of his career.
Give him a good team and they are raising a trophy.
Exactly
He elevates a team much more than Kobe and nobody can convince me otherwise
Well that's part of what I'm getting at why do only Kobe and Jordan count when there are other players that have similar achievement.
I'm not saying ONLY rings count, what I'm saying is there wouldn't be any argument in these discussions or comparisons if the titles were there. If Lebron is a greater player than Jordan and Kobe and makes his teammates better then how come his team doesn't have comparable number of titles? That's how people will look at it at the end of the day how many titles did they help bring to the franchise while they were there. Not MVPs, not scoring titles, or player stats. But do they have the rings to match all the work. There are a lot of great players but not all the greatest players in their era have many rings.
So are you saying there is no reason we should be considering Kobe as one of the greatest players or isn't worthy of mention in this discussion because he was just a player on a good team?
Sounds like you moving the goal post. Similar to how people say about Floyd Mayweather should fight like this or that to be a GOAT. You gotta have MVPs, titles, be a team player, in a tough conference, with only a few good men, stay on the same team and play dramatically.
Maybe yall should make a metric of attributes to measure greatness by so when you have discussions like this everyone can be on the same page. It's easier than trying to pick apart player achievements and discount accomplishments they have made.
But I think yall like fussing about this kinda shit each year. It's what makes sports talk fun I suppose.
Well that's part of what I'm getting at why do only Kobe and Jordan count when there are other players that have similar achievement.
I'm not saying ONLY rings count, what I'm saying is there wouldn't be any argument in these discussions or comparisons if the titles were there. If Lebron is a greater player than Jordan and Kobe and makes his teammates better then how come his team doesn't have comparable number of titles? That's how people will look at it at the end of the day how many titles did they help bring to the franchise while they were there. Not MVPs, not scoring titles, or player stats. But do they have the rings to match all the work. There are a lot of great players but not all the greatest players in their era have many rings.
So are you saying there is no reason we should be considering Kobe as one of the greatest players or isn't worthy of mention in this discussion because he was just a player on a good team?
Sounds like you moving the goal post. Similar to how people say about Floyd Mayweather should fight like this or that to be a GOAT. You gotta have MVPs, titles, be a team player, in a tough conference, with only a few good men, stay on the same team and play dramatically.
Maybe yall should make a metric of attributes to measure greatness by so when you have discussions like this everyone can be on the same page. It's easier than trying to pick apart player achievements and discount accomplishments they have made.
But I think yall like fussing about this kinda shit each year. It's what makes sports talk fun I suppose.
Kobe is a great player no doubt, but goats must have at least 3 MVP's at least show that he can dominate his era...
The thing about Kobe is that he played in between Jordan and LeBron so he should have feasted with the MVP especially playing on good teams every single year..
I'm still waiting on that clown ass nigga to name 10 players better than Bron.
i can always count on you to say some funny shit. Now they have to have at least 3 huh? So shaq is out of the discussion. Tim Duncan.
Honestly, Lebron fans that engage in this debate, must feel insecure about something. Why argue about something you know is true?
2 for 5. don't say he didnt have a good team the other three times, or else they wouldnt have made it that far.
LeBron James posts his 5th NBA Finals triple double tonight.
39 points (1 below Kobe's career high in the Finals), 16 rebounds (more than Kobe's ever posted in the Finals), and 11 assists.
Kobe Bryant has never had a triple double in the NBA Finals.
39 points (1 below Kobe's career high in the Finals), 16 rebounds (more than Kobe's ever posted in the Finals), and 11 assists.
Kobe Bryant has never had a triple double in the NBA Finals.
Similar threads
