Atlanta Educators given up to 20 years for cheating?!?! What?

[Amajorfucup]

So everybody is misinformed but you huh? ...

No. Just the imbeciles who continue to say the charges wernt excessive based on the rejection of a plea offer and those who insist on implying the exams are the determining factor in whether a child is retained in grade or not.

Personal attacks are no substitute for substantive analysis. Carry on internet tough guy, carry on...

Your response was useless and asshole-ish in my opinion. I have numerous posts in this thread and my points of contention are clear and well articulated. When you interject and present/create a issue about the jury verdict i will respond how i did. It wasnt an attack. But an observation.

 

[IT IS WHAT IT IS]

It Is What It is........ I wont quote your posts because all it does is highlight and display more misinformed and uneducated rhetoric that really doesnt need to be repeated or reposted. Your point essentially boils down to "it wasnt excessive punishment because they were offered a lesser plea deal before sentencing". That mindset shows a complete lack of understanding, intellectual honesty, and objectivity that its quite frankly sad to continually hear rattled off. Their charges go against the rule and spirit of the law, and represent a misapplication that is the first of its kind. Offering a plea deal doesnt negate this.

Its unfortunate but you are not equipped to discuss this matter from any perspective other than a surface level novice who is intent on seeing this as a face value scenario where these people got what they deserved because they didnt accept plea agreements. Its far deeper than that. This isnt some binary bullshit where it starts and stops with either take the plea or do 20 years. Reducing it to that is idiocy, and ignores the numerous injustices at play here.

To say that these people wernt overcharged and over sentenced because they refused plea deals is nonsense. The real tragedy is that they were ever charged in this manner to begin with.

And to have a judge reside over the case, grandstanding, and making ridiculous comments like "This is the worst thing ive ever seen in a court room"?? Are you fucking serious!! And all you muthafuckas can say is "well they were offered a plea deal".. Insane.

First of all I didn't say they were overcharged because they didn't take the plea so don't put fucking words in my mouth. I said they knew the possible outcome and they chose to tempt fat and lost... that's what I said and that is a fact, not all this opinion based shit you keep typing. If we are all so misinformed and you have the real info, post it, if not, stfu with the nonsense. I'll bet good money you don't know shit. Prove me wrong...

If they'd taken the plea deal, they wouldn't have had to again deal with a judge, jury, sentencing or none of that shit. Funny how you place the blame on everyone else but strategically avoid the fact that they didn't have to be there or at the mercy of a 'grand standing' judge in the first place. that's why I laugh at people like you, who work so hard to prove dumb points by strategically avoiding all of the facts that invalidate the dumb shit you say.

Straight yes or no question, did they have a choice whether they faced jail time or not? Simple yes or no question...

I'll wait...

 

[code_pirahna]

*sigh*

Too much to comment on but I'll say this:

if you are faced with seven years in jail and a 25000 fine versus a year of WEEKENDS in jail, community service and a 2500 fine - which would you choose?

yeah the punishments are harsh but word in the news is that there are multiple cases that have been tried, that are currently in motion, and probably some that are in investigation all around the country that deal with the same thing. Because APS has the biggest so far they wanted to make an example. Does that make it right? no, but it's not an APS, Atlanta, or Georgia problem.

Why is it not a Georgia problem? Thank Bush for that damn No Child Left Behind Act. That was the catalyst for all this shit and paying bonuses for high performing schools

And just cause I'm TRYING to keep this short (i got work) i see these kids affected. i talk to them. I'm listening to their words and they can't even comprehend simple questions. I've said it before these are the same kids who were failing everything but PE 9th grade and put into an AP class in the tenth. Some of yall may not feel the effect of socially promoting students but it's hard when you cant fill out an application correctly. or carry a phone conversation. half of these kids probably aren't even fit to get a job at Ross.

I don't like the picture it paints that it was Black educators that did this (nor am I happy when the same thing happened in Detroit with the blaming, there's a doc on that) the direct competition to keep up with other demographics in other schools was too much. People got greedy. Should have taken the deal.

I think the "greed" part is a smoke screen.....when you have Mayors closing schools left and right all over cities.....these teachers are simply trying to get funding to keep their jobs

If they were white it would have never happened like this....esp the RICO bullshit.....

And you re right No Child Left Behind is the reason this is happening....but hey the more kids they have that can t function academically....the more potential future inmates they have.....and that is what they REALLY want

 

[peterlongshort]

True and the DA ain't shit.. This was clearly a hit job to make a name for himself, granted these teachers should've known better because they don't get the same leash as cacs...

Paul Howard has been the DA for at least 20 years now and is the first black elected DA in the State of Georgia. I doubt that was his motivation.

 

[code_pirahna]

If they'd taken the plea deal, they wouldn't have had to again deal with a judge, jury, sentencing or none of that shit. Funny how you place the blame on everyone else but strategically avoid the fact that they didn't have to be there or at the mercy of a 'grand standing' judge in the first place. that's why I laugh at people like you, who work so hard to prove dumb points by strategically avoiding all of the facts that invalidate the dumb shit you say.

Straight yes or no question, did they have a choice whether they faced jail time or not? Simple yes or no question...

I'll wait...

They shouldn't have been bullied into a plea deal in the first place....c mon man the government is using threats of VERY HIGH UNJUST SENTENCES in order to get plea deals to save money and boost their numbers......

That is what should be the conversation....not why didn t they take the deal.....

The deal was based off of bullying and corruption....period

 

[IT IS WHAT IT IS]

No. Just the imbeciles who continue to say the charges wernt excessive based on the rejection of a plea offer and those who insist on implying the exams are the determining factor in whether a child is retained in grade or.

Regardless of whether you think it was excessive or not, we're they aware of the Charges, possible sentences, etc when they turned down the plea deal? Yes or no question

 

[peterlongshort]

Your response was useless and asshole-ish in my opinion. I have numerous posts in this thread and my points of contention are clear and well articulated. When you interject and present/create a issue about the jury verdict i will respond how i did. It wasnt an attack. But an observation.

I'm just hitting you with facts. I understand you don't like those. They seem to get in the way of your "clear and well-articulated points" .

 

[FJP]

The judge may have been grandstanding but he gave more chances than any judge I can ever recall. Not many judges will agree that the charges are trumped up, then give advice on lenient pleas and then offer again prior to rendering sentences post conviction.


Once he made the comment about jurors being convinced on the RICO I would have took the plea. It's the reason why some of the 60 that took the pleas still have their jobs.

 

[thismybgolname]

True and the DA ain't shit.. This was clearly a hit job to make a name for himself, granted these teachers should've known better because they don't get the same leash as cacs...

They were offered 2 pleas...


You're law enforcement, was their crime not the definition of a RICO charge?

 

[FJP]

True and the DA ain't shit.. This was clearly a hit job to make a name for himself, granted these teachers should've known better because they don't get the same leash as cacs...

Man they should have known better for the simple fact of keeping their oath. A lot of them got away too. Only 80 were charged.

 

[IT IS WHAT IT IS]

They shouldn't have been bullied into a plea deal in the first place....c mon man the government is using threats of VERY HIGH UNJUST SENTENCES in order to get plea deals to save money and boost their numbers......

That is what should be the conversation....not why didn t they take the deal.....

The deal was based off of bullying and corruption....period

Call it what you want, and I'm not debating your point, however bullying or not, they understood what they were choosing and made their choice, and it's cost them 20 years.

Plus, if they'd not done what they did in the first place they wouldn't be in the predicament they are in...

I realize a lot of white people get away wi ft have sit and it's fucked up, but I'm not going to go Rob a bank because a white person got away with it and hope for the same sentence.... social injustice does not excuse accountability for our own actions...

I've been tempted to do dumb shut in my life, but I've never been in a position to be bullied by a judge because I chose not to do dumb shit.

 

[Amajorfucup]

Regardless of whether you think it was excessive or not, we're they aware of the Charges, possible sentences, etc when they turned down the plea deal? Yes or no question

Your insistence on reducing this to a matter of plea or not plea just completely misses the boat. Feel free to re-read my posts and hopefully it sinks in at some point. Until then we can agree to disagree because we arent progressing with one another.

I'm just hitting you with facts. I understand you don't like those. They seem to get in the way of your "clear and well-articulated points" .

But you are discussing facts that arent at issue or in dispute. Which again reiterates my earlier point, your responses are useless and asshole-ish.

 

[code_pirahna]

Regardless of whether you think it was excessive or not, we're they aware of the Charges, possible sentences, etc when they turned down the plea deal? Yes or no question

The judge may have been grandstanding but he gave more chances than any judge I can ever recall. Not many judges will agree that the charges are trumped up, then give advice on lenient pleas and then offer again prior to rendering sentences post conviction.


Once he made the comment about jurors being convinced on the RICO I would have took the plea. It's the reason why some of the 60 that took the pleas still have their jobs.

They were offered 2 pleas...


You're law enforcement, was their crime not the definition of a RICO charge?

Why is it that folks keep bringing up the plea deals as if that justifies this bullshit and shames the ones who were punished.....

So.basically the government could say "I will shoot you in the head for stealing this pen, but if you take this deal you can get off with community service." And folks.don t have shit to.say except....."Man yall better take that deal."


DA FUCK???????

 

[Amajorfucup]

Why is it that folks keep bringing up the plea deals as if that justifies this bullshit and shames the ones who were punished.....

So.basically the government could say "I will shoot you in the head for stealing this pen, but if you take this deal you can get off with community service." And folks.don t have shit to.say except....."Man yall better take that deal."


DA FUCK???????

Its ok in their minds to get fucked up the ass as long as you're offered vaseline first.

 

[FJP]

They were offered 2 pleas...


You're law enforcement, was their crime not the definition of a RICO charge?

No and Yes.

No because the RICO was created to take down organized criminals and their rackets. It was designed specifically for that reason.

Yes. Because even though a law may be created for a specific purpose it doesn't prevent it from being interpreted to fit others. This is that prime example. Of course the motive for doing this was not the bonus(except the administrator she got 6 figures)but "technically" to the letter of the law it fit.


If this was a bench trial they would have got the charge dropped. This is the problem with juries because many jurors don't know legalese and the attorneys take advantage of that.

 

[IT IS WHAT IT IS]

The judge may have been grandstanding but he gave more chances than any judge I can ever recall. Not many judges will agree that the charges are trumped up, then give advice on lenient pleas and then offer again prior to rendering sentences post conviction.


Once he made the comment about jurors being convinced on the RICO I would have took the plea. It's the reason why some of the 60 that took the pleas still have their jobs.

Not only that but all 100 or 80 or whatever may not have been charged with identical offenses...

2 plea deals, probation and keep your jobs a opposed to possibly 20 years?!

Yeah, it's the systems fault

 

[code_pirahna]

Call it what you want, and I'm not debating your point, however bullying or not, they understood what they were choosing and made their choice, and it's cost them 20 years.

Plus, if they'd not done what they did in the first place they wouldn't be in the predicament they are in...

I realize a lot of white people get away wi ft have sit and it's fucked up, but I'm not going to go Rob a bank because a white person got away with it and hope for the same sentence.... social injustice does not excuse accountability for our own actions...

I've been tempted to do dumb shut in my life, but I've never been in a position to be bullied by a judge because I chose not to do dumb shit.

No....the reason this is happening is because of No child left behind. Governments and corporations and the powers that be love for us to point the finger at the littele guy and not the ones setting the shit in motion....


The source is the corruption in government and the prison industry and that is the only thing that should be focused on by the masses

 

[FJP]

No....the reason this is happening is because of No child left behind. Governments and corporations and the powers that be love for us to point the finger at the littele guy and not the ones setting the shit in motion....


The source is the corruption in government and the prison industry and that is the only thing that should be focused on by the masses

Seriously. Let me ask you this. So do you feel this was ok because of No Child Left behind. You say this as if they had absolutely no choice.

What should the punishment have been?

 

[IT IS WHAT IT IS]

No....the reason this is happening is because of No child left behind. Governments and corporations and the powers that be love for us to point the finger at the littele guy and not the ones setting the shit in motion....


The source is the corruption in government and the prison industry and that is the only thing that should be focused on by the masses

So how does this not still give them a choice to decide whether to cheat or not?

 

[code_pirahna]

Its ok in their minds to get fucked up the ass as long as you're offered vaseline first.

And this is exactly why the 1% continues to amass the amount of wealth they have.....cause the 99% can t see that they are robbing them of their money in order to get richer....

Folks should be ready to burn this shit down when they mentioned RICO and 20 yrs.....and Wall Street bankers didn t get a day?

And a they got a bailout????? With the people's money??? And the government wont force the banks to give the people loan forgiveness?????

Why???? BECAUSE OF THE STATEMENT YOU MADE

"Atleast you were given the opportunity for some Vaseline"

 

[code_pirahna]

So how does this not still give them a choice to decide whether to cheat or not?

Why is their food dictated on a test?

 

[IT IS WHAT IT IS]

Its ok in their minds to get fucked up the ass as long as you're offered vaseline first.

Weak.... very weak... as idiotic as this attempt is, I'll invalidate this dumb as analogy as well...

The choice was made to offer your assistance to get fucked. You then have the option of Vaseline or no. If you choose not Vaseline you can't then butch because it hurt when you were told it could possibly hurt if you don't use Vaseline....

Engage your brain before offering dumb as analogies to try to prove your weak as position...

Still waiting for your yes or no answer to the world direct questions I asked you too. Doubt if you will answer them but...

 

[code_pirahna]

Seriously. Let me ask you this. So do you feel this was ok because of No Child Left behind. You say this as if they had absolutely no choice.

What should the punishment have been?

What should the punishment have been for the Wall Street bankers in the financial crisis where crimes at a much more lucrative level were committed?

I ll tell you what they got.......nothing.

Now please answer you re question based on those facts

 

[thismybgolname]

Why is it that folks keep bringing up the plea deals as if that justifies this bullshit and shames the ones who were punished.....

Because these people were in the wrong and were offered a plea.

They were given an out that they refused.

People in this thread have said they should have been fired and fined, which is what the plea offers were.

So.basically the government could say "I will shoot you in the head for stealing this pen, but if you take this deal you can get off with community service." And folks.don t have shit to.say except....."Man yall better take that deal."


DA FUCK???????

If the punishment for stealing a pen was punishable by death and you conspired with a group of other people to steal the pen then it would be wise to take the plea.

No....the reason this is happening is because of No child left behind. Governments and corporations and the powers that be love for us to point the finger at the littele guy and not the ones setting the shit in motion....


The source is the corruption in government and the prison industry and that is the only thing that should be focused on by the masses

No, the reason this is happening is because they went against their ethics in an attempt to circumvent the system they decided to be a part of.

No one forced them to be teachers and No Child Left Behind has been around for some time.

The only people innocent in this situation are the children that were cheated.

I can't embed the video but one of the parents is speaking about her child:

http://www.11alive.com/story/news/education/2015/04/14/aps-cheating-scandal/25789407/

 

[IT IS WHAT IT IS]

Why is their food dictated on a test?

Point is, it is, and they knew it was, and it's a profession they chose or chose to stay in understanding the guidelines in place. You can't say fucked the rules just because you don't agree with them, or if the requirement to keep a job are too stringent cheat, and then bitch when you get caught.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

The sickest thing that's ever happened in Atlanta you say?

 

[code_pirahna]

Point is, it is, and they knew it was, and it's a profession they chose or chose to stay in understanding the guidelines in place. You can't say fucked the rules just because you don't agree with them, or if the requirement to keep a job are too stringent cheat, and then bitch when you get caught.

Bruh....don t you understand that you are focused on the wrong folks?

The fact that 20 years was even spoken should have EVERYONE outraged.

 

[Amajorfucup]

No....the reason this is happening is because of No child left behind. Governments and corporations and the powers that be love for us to point the finger at the littele guy and not the ones setting the shit in motion....


The source is the corruption in government and the prison industry and that is the only thing that should be focused on by the masses

This guy has his fucking thinking cap on.

...Unions, politicians, corporations, money, votes, fodder for criminal justice system and prison industrial complex, bogus system of standardized testing....

And when the house of cards comes falling down, you vilify the working poor and throw the fucking book them.

And this is exactly why the 1% continues to amass the amount of wealth they have.....cause the 99% can t see that they are robbing them of their money in order to get richer....

Folks should be ready to burn this shit down when they mentioned RICO and 20 yrs.....and Wall Street bankers didn t get a day?

The shits infuriating man. It truly is. Fam, the judge initially calls the charges a over reach and criticizes the DA. Then hes in court threatening 20 years while saying its the worst thing hes seen in his court room!!?? Seriously!? Not rape, not murder, not babies being killed, not white collar fuckery and extortion and embezzlement, arson, kidnapping... but filling out test bubbles?? How is no one pissed off?!!

 

[code_pirahna]

Because these people were in the wrong and were offered a plea.

They were given an out that they refused.

People in this thread have said they should have been fired and fined, which is what the plea offers were.




If the punishment for stealing a pen was punishable by death and you conspired with a group of other people to steal the pen then it would be wise to take the plea.



No, the reason this is happening is because they went against their ethics in an attempt to circumvent the system they decided to be a part of.

No one forced them to be teachers and No Child Left Behind has been around for some time.

The only people innocent in this situation are the children that were cheated.

I can't embed the video but one of the parents is speaking about her child:

http://www.11alive.com/story/news/education/2015/04/14/aps-cheating-scandal/25789407/

Man yall gotta open your eyes....

Ethics???? R u serious?

Education esp public education has ALWAYS been about resources and the corrupt allocation of resources....

From busing to test scores....all are used to keep a group of certain people from resources...yall gotta look at wtf is going on around you.

 

[IT IS WHAT IT IS]

Bruh....don t you understand that you are focused on the wrong folks?

The fact that 20 years was even spoken should have EVERYONE outraged.

BUT it was spoken of and they knew it. A lot of sentences don't fit crimes bruh, not arguing that. my point is, they did not HAVE to be sentenced to that, they chose to test the system and loss. If they weren't given a plea deal, and we're tried and Convicted, I would be bit ching like everybody else. They werent, they were offered a life line and rejected if, so this is on them.

 

[code_pirahna]

BUT it was spoken of and they knew it. A lot of sentences don't fit crimes bruh, not arguing that. my point is, they did not HAVE to be sentenced to that, they chose to test the system and loss. If they weren't given a plea deal, and we're tried and Convicted, I would be bit ching like everybody else. They werent, they were offered a life line and rejected if, so this is on them.

The last part "so this is on them" is where I think folks are not focused on the REAL criminals in this ENTIRE situation

 

[FJP]

What should the punishment have been for the Wall Street bankers in the financial crisis where crimes at a much more lucrative level were committed?

I ll tell you what they got.......nothing.

Now please answer you re question based on those facts

You are justifying wrong with wrong should Michael Slager get off because Darren Wilson did?

So it's cool to defraud black children out an education because the bankers got away?

They should have got life for the collapse, everyone knows that but how does that make defrauding those kids right?

 

[IT IS WHAT IT IS]

The last part "so this is on them" is where I think folks are not focused on the REAL criminals in this ENTIRE situation

Did they have to go to prison for 20 years yes or no?

 

[code_pirahna]

This guy has his fucking thinking cap on.

...Unions, politicians, corporations, money, votes, fodder for criminal justice system and prison industrial complex, bogus system of standardized testing....

This is what folks miss...the entire academic system is used to keep folks from resources....hell I heard that the reason why a lot of the vocational tech classes that used to be taught in schools are gone is because the local mechanical unions didn t want these kids graduating high school with skills and certification that was not given to them by the union's training organizations....they re only doing this to control the eligible future employees in their field.....

Sad shit man but its how this whole thing works....mainly because the masses are focused on the wrong people

And when the house of cards comes falling down, you vilify the working poor and throw the fucking book them.


The shits infuriating man. It truly is. Fam, the judge initially calls the charges a over reach and criticizes the DA. Then hes in court threatening 20 years while saying its the worst thing hes seen in his court room!!?? Seriously!? Not rape, not murder, not babies being killed, not white collar fuckery and extortion and embezzlement, arson, kidnapping... but filling out test bubbles?? How is no one pissed off?!!

Exactly

 

[thismybgolname]

Man yall gotta open your eyes....

Ethics???? R u serious?

Education esp public education has ALWAYS been about resources and the corrupt allocation of resources....

From busing to test scores....all are used to keep a group of certain people from resources...yall gotta look at wtf is going on around you.

I deal with the kids at one of the main schools that was involved in this scandal.

All this nonsense you're saying and everyone else defending them makes jack _____ to these children who were already in a bad situation.

Teaching was something they signed up for, they cheated and were caught.

Fuck these niggas.

What solution do you propose to fix the issues with these children right now?