50 Cent and Steve Stoute confrontation at MSG
- Thread starter smiffnwessun
- Start date
I disagree.
Did his death elevate his status?
Of course...but that isn't just in hip hop its in SOCIETY a a whole.
Pac as an MC? One of the all time greats?
Even Pun.
Was Heath Ledger REALLY an all time great actor...Brandon Lee?
so I don''t think that''s fair.
He had 3 CDs worth of work NOT including features.
And I would argue you could take ANYONE else's 3 best CDs and Biggie would come out on top.
Hell how many rappers with 10-15-20 year careers don't even have ONE universally agreed upon classic album, catalog and singles?
You could say Busta NEVER had a classic top to bottom record (regardless of the dozens of classic hit records)...but that doesn't mean he isn't an all time great but I would argue Biggie was better overall.
Also what Biggie did as an MC rapper and performer has set a blueprint (with Puff) that is still being followed today. Hi whole style and his DOMINANCE at the time is really only rivaled by Jay Z, Eminem, 50, Dr. Dre and Pac.
You can not under estimate what 50 Cent was able to accomplish at the time because he was nice BEFORE he got shot...and to come back to revolutionize the mixtape game, and sign that deal and sell those records and become a damn icon who no matter what IS still relevant today.
C'mon son.
50 just missed up by not being humble, letting beefs go on to long, not growing his music, bad siginings and not properly expanding his network.
Although I really hate ranking artists in music acting and even sports like that because I feel like it just cheapens their extraordinary accomplishments.
But your points are valid.
How did Dip-Set start anything that has to do with a mix tape when Master-P... Too-Short... Mac Dre... DJ Screw... and a whole bunch of other people were doing it WAY before Dip-set was even conceptualized...
50 gets credit for re-doing nigga's songs and making them his own instead of just doing the traditionally freestyle.
Dip-Set gets credit for doing own their own mix tapes instead of always appearing on everybody else's mix tape... but they didn't start shit... because people did that before them.
OH I STRONGLY disagree. While I do agree that him dying has elevated him to "all-time greatest" status by some New Yorkers.......his talent is wasn't just some spur of the moment dude. BIG would've been Nas status right now. I guarantee it. I don't know if he'd continue to be popular and be selling 4 million records and shit now or shit if he'd be some entrepreneur like Jay.
I do think part of his greatness did come from Puff and that's something people don't want to acknowledge. I don't think he makes albums as good as Life After Death and Ready to Die without Puff's help. So if its true he was gonna leave Bad Boy.....I don't know what the music would've evolved too. But talent-wise nobody could fuck with BIG's wordplay and flow. That shit would've kept him in the game.
How did Dip-Set start anything that has to do with a mix tape when Master-P... Too-Short... Mac Dre... DJ Screw... and a whole bunch of other people were doing it WAY before Dip-set was even conceptualized...
50 gets credit for re-doing nigga's songs and making them his own instead of just doing the traditionally freestyle.
Dip-Set gets credit for doing own their own mix tapes instead of always appearing on everybody else's mix tape... but they didn't start shit... because people did that before them.
Missed my point
And weren't Too Short and Master P just selling their stuff indie hand to hand?
How did Dip-Set start anything that has to do with a mix tape when Master-P... Too-Short... Mac Dre... DJ Screw... and a whole bunch of other people were doing it WAY before Dip-set was even conceptualized...
50 gets credit for re-doing nigga's songs and making them his own instead of just doing the traditionally freestyle.
Dip-Set gets credit for doing own their own mix tapes instead of always appearing on everybody else's mix tape... but they didn't start shit... because people did that before them.
I don't know about that. If Fif gets credit for it than he's wrongfully getting it. I remember vaguely Dipset was doing this shit before Fif and Wayne. Them Sqad Up Mixtapes is what put Wayne back in the spotlight.
I think we have to get a definition of what you guys mean by "mix tapes". Because if my memory serves me right Dipset was the first ones doing the new beats and shit on mix tapes. Everyone else including Fif was rapping over beats we had already heard. Dipset was damn near dropping free albums like Gucci and Currensy do now. I don't remember no one doing that before Dipset.
this man may be correct.
Therein lies the problem. Which definition of mixtape are folks talking about. The DJ mixtape, the remix mixtape, the indie release mixtape etc...
I gotta go with the 50 Cent definition of mixtape...
using popular beats and re-doing songs.
50 Cent and G Unit rejuvenated it and made it become a household word and a regular feature on MTV.com because of how he got his Shady deal off it.
The Kid Capri Ron G Doo Wop DJ Clue etc...is a whole different animal.
And the Dipset doing damn near ALBUMS with new lyrics beats and quality production is something else.
The Down South model I would argue isn't the same...they were hustling without any distribution creating their own network, dealing with mom & pop stores, little record shops, out they trunk.
Then Lil Wayne spazzed out and took it too a whole other level. along with DJ Drama.
Cats are digging deeper and deeper now, theories and facts.
I thought i ended this post 4 pages ago.
Yep it did, Puff really didn't like that dvd. I remember buying it when it first came dropped.
Like I said, dude has the juice to silence
True indeed, him and all of the top dawgs in the music industry.
In 2014 there is only one mixtape.
When dudes bring up "mixtape" we're talking about the lyrics over new beats that's become the staple for mixtapes. The DJ Mixtape, Remix mixtape....they've all become irrelevant due to this new model of mixtape. Clue, Kay Slay, Envy.....don't even drop mix tapes no more. Now you have the DJ hosted mix tapes like DJ Drama, DJ Scream, Southern Smoke, etc. but those are usually the same model that Dipset brought to the game.Dudes trying to confuse the two but IMO its only really one model of mixtape now.
Right to to all the above. 100% correct. In the south those weren't "mix tapes". Those were albums and those weren't free. Shit I remember I bought Big Moe's City of Syrup for 20 dollars. Them shits were expensive. Same goes for them No Limit albums.
But if we talking dropping basically free albums with new beats? Dipset gets that title from me. Curtis did bring notoriety to mix tapes but he wasn't doing it the same way Dipset was.
Dip Set used the Down South model though...
Difference is down south was charging 20 dollars a album. Dipset were doing them for free and using it to promote their brand. The south was doing it to make a living. I can't say it was really a mixtape. Those albums were on par with mainstream albums just done on a smaller budget.
You had Screw tapes and shit out of Texas but those were more of the traditional model....rapping over beats we've already heard before but it was slowed and chopped.
I don't think it's a coincidence that Dip Set and G-Unit both had movements.
Dip Set didn't handle theirs properly, where as 50 did to a degree.
Not sure if it as a Rocafella thing, or them being young and not businessmen. But that clothing line they're doing now. They should have had then.
But if Dame would have had just them back then
They were a missed opportunity.
Dip Set didn't handle theirs properly, where as 50 did to a degree.
Not sure if it as a Rocafella thing, or them being young and not businessmen. But that clothing line they're doing now. They should have had then.
But if Dame would have had just them back then
They were a missed opportunity.
Missed my point
And weren't Too Short and Master P just selling their stuff indie hand to hand?
Your missing your own point. Mix-tapes and selling indie hand to hand is as old as hip-hop itself.
What is the definition of a mix-tape?
A hip-hop cassette or cds of various music/songs
The early pioneers receive non to little airplay. The local neighborhoods were the recipients of these tapes which made their way out of the clubs and basement to the hood and then radio
Djs bedrooms/basements/clubs ---> neighborhood ---> radio.
Everyone artist that came after were only copying what was already practice
I don't think it's a coincidence that Dip Set and G-Unit both had movements.
Dip Set didn't handle theirs properly, where as 50 did to a degree.
Not sure if it as a Rocafella thing, or them being young and not businessmen. But that clothing line they're doing now. They should have had then.
But if Dame would have had just them back then
They were a missed opportunity.
Speaking about "movements"
Thanks to the early pioneers and their mix-tapes, hip-hop have become one of the biggest musical genres
Selling your product hand to hand is not a mixtape. When Percy P was selling his shit outside of Fat Beats he wasn't selling a mixtape.
Mixtapes has had different stages
The one that 50 is given credit for starting, Dip Set started. My point. You can call it popularized if you want.
Before signed artist weren't giving away music.
The Dips gave some original material and some rhyming over other beats. Which is the modern artist mixtape.
Hip-hop did not begin in the late 90s/early 2000s
Exactly....
Dame and Jay signed Clue...I don't think it's a coincidence that Dip Set and G-Unit both had movements.
Dip Set didn't handle theirs properly, where as 50 did to a degree.
Not sure if it as a Rocafella thing, or them being young and not businessmen. But that clothing line they're doing now. They should have had then.
But if Dame would have had just them back then
They were a missed opportunity.
... and who are the 'pioneers' of the mix tape game???
Dipset, Wayne and Fif are the "early pioneers" of this mixtape shit.
In 2014 there is only one mixtape.
Dudes trying to confuse the two but IMO its only really one model of mixtape now.
Right to to all the above. 100% correct. In the south those weren't "mix tapes". Those were albums and those weren't free. Shit I remember I bought Big Moe's City of Syrup for 20 dollars. Them shits were expensive. Same goes for them No Limit albums.
But if we talking dropping basically free albums with new beats? Dipset gets that title from me. Curtis did bring notoriety to mix tapes but he wasn't doing it the same way Dipset was.
The Dips gave some original material and some rhyming over other beats. Which is the modern artist mixtape.
Mc Hammer did that as well. What is your point?
Dame and Jay signed Clue...
Those first couple of professional albums sold.
When I look back at it now, I'm like how. They were bad mixtapes.
Just like I wonder why anyone would pay for Khaled's albums.
Then stop confusing yourself. Mix-tapes are mix-tapes
It didn't but the model of mix tapes where you give away free new material and use it to promote yourself and your brand didn't begin until the early 2000's.
In 2014 there is only one mixtape.
Dudes trying to confuse the two but IMO its only really one model of mixtape now.
Right to to all the above. 100% correct. In the south those weren't "mix tapes". Those were albums and those weren't free. Shit I remember I bought Big Moe's City of Syrup for 20 dollars. Them shits were expensive. Same goes for them No Limit albums.
But if we talking dropping basically free albums with new beats? Dipset gets that title from me. Curtis did bring notoriety to mix tapes but he wasn't doing it the same way Dipset was.
OK...
So what about Mac Dre then...
Speaking about making tapes to promote oneself
How did LL get to def jam, again?
You're trolling hard
How did he get to Def Jam?
indeed.He just basically just told the story of every self promoted hip-hop pioneers, without realizing it
Speaking about making tapes to promote oneself
How did LL get to def jam, again?
I don't know HOW he got to Def Jam. Dipset already had a deal. They weren't trying to get no where. They weren't dropping no demo tapes or no shit like that. They were dropping well produced mix tapes that sounded like albums. Y'all always trying to give the old school credit for something. What was LL doing in the 2000's when his career was stalling out? He was trying to sign to G-Unit and shit.
OK...
So what about Mac Dre then...
What about him?
You have to be one of the dumbest person on this board. Take that as a compliment. You are really that stupid
How old are you 14?
If you want participate in a discussion about hip-hop history, try actually knowing at least 5% of the subject matter before talking.
Your assignment today is: How did LL work his way to def jam and by which medium
What about him?
What you claim Dipset started he was doing the exact same thing years prior.
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