Your immaturity continues to show and you're still not answering the questions thrown at you. It's actually embarrassing but continue to post if you wish.
Mayweather refuses Manny's demand for a 50/50 split. Fight is in serious trouble.
- Thread starter Jordan Diddy Buk
- Start date
Your immaturity continues to show and you're still not answering the questions thrown at you. It's actually embarrassing but continue to post if you wish.
Your immaturity continues to show and you're still not answering the questions thrown at you. It's actually embarrassing but continue to post if you wish.
I also have asked questions that have not been answered. But it is fine. It is the internet. So I don't take it to seriously.
You missed his point. A fastball straight down the middle is the same as pbf's opponents. In the sense they are what he wants. Easy opponents for him to beat.
Oscar was past his prime and largely inactive. Hatton wasn't even a welterweight. He beat Victor Ortiz under fair but dubious circumstances. Floyd's win over Ortiz wasn't even due to styles or strategy. It was due to Ortiz having his hands down not realizing the ref called time in. Was it Ortiz's fault for being an idiot? Yes. But don't try and make it sound like Mayweather beat Ortiz by deciphering some southpaw riddle.
In general, I don't see how you can go on a rant dissing Pacquiao's opposition and then praise Mayweather's in the same breath. If you read enough boxing -outside of BGOL- you would know that Mayweather does not have any edge over Pac in the competition department.
So... Nevermind the fact that Floyd was beating Ortiz on the judges cards before the KO?
That's exactly how I feel and felt about Pacquiao/Hatton. I'm shocked when people who say they're boxing fans don't see this.
I remember. Every 24/7, Floyd's opponent talks about pressuring him and fighting on the inside and muscling and bullying him. That shit doesn't work. He's figured it out. The one guy it worked for once got his ass lit up in the almost immediate rematch.
Of course Ortiz was the underdog despite being the champion but even noted Mayweather critic Emmanuel Steward said Victor was the type of fighter people didn't think Floyd would fight at this stage of his career: big, young, southpaw.
Mayweather was dominating the fight up until a mad (and ineffective)rush by Ortiz before the headbutt. Nothing dubious about the knockout.
I disagree but not by much. Pacquiao's level of comp was very high as he was moving up (Barrera, Morales, JMM) and then it dropped off steeply once he got to lightweight. Mayweather's comp is slightly better but it doesn't look like it because of the incredible talent and skill of Mayweather. Instead of tightly contested fights, they all end up onesided dominations. Victor Ortiz, despite his flaws, is still better than anyone, outside JMM, that Pacquiao's fought at welterweight.
Here's the problem with comparing opponents between the two and saying who picked the easiest guys.
For Floyd, you can't name an opponent that we no for sure would be a challenge. All the welter weights that people say he didn't fight didn't stand chance in most people's eyes back then or now excluding Williams at the time, but the reality is now we see his level of comp was very low and since then, he has shown himself to one of most flawed of them all. The guy that gave Floyd the most trouble, Castillo has had his game plan copied by everyone since and Floyd hasn't avoided pressure fighters at all.
For Manny, we knew all along there was a guy that gave him hell and Manny not only avoided Marquez but he didn't fight guys with that style. That why lost motherfuckers saw Manny blasting away all these brawlers and thought he had advance beyond Marquez... He didn't advance because he didn't have to. He force every advantage possible over Marquez and it didn't work cause he was used to a guy just standing there and taking his punches.
Now are far as what happens in the ring... Floyd avoids exchanges and Manny only knows how to try and out gun a motherfucker so of course... Manny is going to have the tougher time.
For Floyd, you can't name an opponent that we no for sure would be a challenge. All the welter weights that people say he didn't fight didn't stand chance in most people's eyes back then or now excluding Williams at the time, but the reality is now we see his level of comp was very low and since then, he has shown himself to one of most flawed of them all. The guy that gave Floyd the most trouble, Castillo has had his game plan copied by everyone since and Floyd hasn't avoided pressure fighters at all.
For Manny, we knew all along there was a guy that gave him hell and Manny not only avoided Marquez but he didn't fight guys with that style. That why lost motherfuckers saw Manny blasting away all these brawlers and thought he had advance beyond Marquez... He didn't advance because he didn't have to. He force every advantage possible over Marquez and it didn't work cause he was used to a guy just standing there and taking his punches.
Now are far as what happens in the ring... Floyd avoids exchanges and Manny only knows how to try and out gun a motherfucker so of course... Manny is going to have the tougher time.
That's exactly how I feel and felt about Pacquiao/Hatton. I'm shocked when people who say they're boxing fans don't see this.
Why? People have different views. Not everyone sees things the same. I posted link where people in the boxing industry thought Hatton had a chance. I mean it wasn't out the realm of possibilities Manny could have got beat down or caught.
I disagree but not by much. Pacquiao's level of comp was very high as he was moving up (Barrera, Morales, JMM) and then it dropped off steeply once he got to lightweight. Mayweather's comp is slightly better but it doesn't look like it because of the incredible talent and skill of Mayweather. Instead of tightly contested fights, they all end up onesided dominations. Victor Ortiz, despite his flaws, is still better than anyone, outside JMM, that Pacquiao's fought at welterweight.
Wow, I guess Ortiz is the new Chop Chop. There is nothing that suggest dude was better than Antonio, Cotto, Hatton, or Oscar. But if you think Ortiz the guy that quit in the ring twice. Once with Medina and then when he had a mental breakdown in the ring with PBF. But you are entitled to have an opinion. It isn't crazy. It isn't wrong. It is just your opinion and I disagree.
Why? People have different views. Not everyone sees things the same. I posted link where people in the boxing industry thought Hatton had a chance. I mean it wasn't out the realm of possibilities Manny could have got beat down or caught.
I disagree but not by much. Pacquiao's level of comp was very high as he was moving up (Barrera, Morales, JMM) and then it dropped off steeply once he got to lightweight. Mayweather's comp is slightly better but it doesn't look like it because of the incredible talent and skill of Mayweather. Instead of tightly contested fights, they all end up onesided dominations. Victor Ortiz, despite his flaws, is still better than anyone, outside JMM, that Pacquiao's fought at welterweight.
Wow, I guess Ortiz is the new Chop Chop. There is nothing that suggest dude was better than Antonio, Cotto, Hatton, or Oscar. But if you think Ortiz the guy that quit in the ring twice. Once with Medina and then when he had a mental breakdown in the ring with PBF. But you are entitled to have an opinion. It isn't crazy. It isn't wrong. It is just your opinion and I disagree.
All of your questions have been anwsered and more, but you avoided that shit.
I think people sleep on some of Pacquiao's early work before Barrera, Morales, and JMM because boxing below 126lbs is usually ignored when compared to the other weights. However, I'm not going to get into it right now, but take a closer look at the champs Pacquiao beat before those three Mexicans. When you consider those champs and compare them to the champs Mayweather fought during similar stages, they were better than the guys Mayweather beat for titles as he rose in weight, Genaro Hernandez and Arturo Gatti for example. Also, they were the top champions in their respective divisions unlike Hernandez and Gatti. Asia has had some nice fighters. One of my favorite champs from the 90's was San Sor Ploenchit. Ploenchit was the shit! That dude was slick, a deceptive puncher behind a beautiful jab and was in some of the most memorable fights for those that follow the minimum weight divisions. Check him out sometime if you haven't already. I was only able to see his fights because I was overseas at the time. I don't think they were showing him in the U.S
Regarding the knockout of Ortiz, it just wasn't a normal ending or a normal knock out. It is what it is. Ortiz may have been behind in the cards but he was definitely in the fight. I would have preferred to see the fight end under normal circumstances.
People came up with ways Hatton coild beat Floyd too. That shit happens with every fight and you definitely get people who are involved with the fight selling it as competitive whn Ray Charles from the grave can see its not. Then you always get some going strictly for the upset just they can look good if it happens.
I have Ortiz beating Margarito at any weight, Cotto at any weight, same with Hatton and Oscar at 147. I also have Maidina beating all those guys at welter except Cotto.
Margarito is a bum.
Cotto can't handle pressure.
Hatton was extremely overrated.
Oscar was a shell of his former self.
Damn, I never knew Ortiz was held in such high regard by you guys. He may have the physical tools but boxing is also so mental. He went life and death with Lamont Peterson. I think it's disrespectful to say that such an under accomplished guy is better than Miguel Cotto and even Antonio Margarito. If Maidana made Ortiz quit, imagine what a prime Margarito would have done. If Ortiz had the mental strength of a Julio Cesar Chavez, I would agree that he has tremendous potential. Without that, again, it's just insulting to say he is better than the other more established guys.
Antonio was a top pound for pound fighter at one time. Who also once was the undisputed kingpin of his division.
Cotto is a freaking hof'er that is still the best in his division
Hatton's biggest win was against a dude that just got inducted into the hof. Not to mention he made him quit the fight and boxing.
Oscar was done after his got that gift against Sturm. Bhop reheated him and ate him up. PBF made him look like a two left foot actor on "dancing with the stars". And Manny killed him. Still, I would put an Oscar that just lost to Manny over Ortiz any day. But that's my opinion and I'm not in the click. So it is what it is.
Are we talking about these fight when they faced Pac up until now. The Cotto who used his boxing skills against Mosley could beat Ortiz or Maidana, but the reality is that I don't think Ortiz or Maidana are good or great.. It's just I don' respect Cotto any more and atthe catchweight forget it. Margarito has will always be a bum. Ortiz wouldn't face what he had to face against Peterson with any of those guys... Slickness.
Last edited:
The Margarito that face Pac wasn't shit and besides Cotto who did he beat that tells you he could beat anyone worth two shits.
Cotto isn't the best in his division and refuses to fight anyone worth a damn. If he fought Martinez, Canelo or Kirkland and looks good... I won't even say win.. I might change my stance, but fighting the guys he's been fighting... Nope
Hatton beat a guy who quit. If that is Ortiz' crime why does Hatton get points?
Oscar at 147 didn't stand a chance against any top welter at that point. I have Clottey beating him too.
Last edited:
Floyd was wiping the floor with Ortiz, making him look like a fool. Ortiz became frustrated and started using illegal tactics ("I wanted to break his nose with my head-butt"), and Floyd Ko'd the bitch for it.
Jose Luis Castillo used questionable tactics in his first fight. He grabbed Floyd with one hand and body punched him with the other. The idiotic ref let that shit go on. In the return match the new ref would not put up with bullshit and Floyd beat Castillo up like a child.
Okay. Then apply that same logic to Floyd challenging the reigning welterweight champions in Carlos Baldomir (no question a journeyman but still a legitimate champion), Zab Judah, and Victor Ortiz.
Ultimately, with you, I just ask for you to apply the same yardstick to all fighters. I've been asking for that in vain for a couple years now and I guess I'm too stubborn to quit or too naive thinking you might someday.
Corley was the welterweight champion when he and Floyd fought? Was he a champion at all?
At this stage of their careers, of course he's better than Margarito. Cotto? Maybe. He's definitely better at 147 than Hatton was and stood a better chance at Mayweather than Hatton did Pacquiao.
They weren't. I might have to.
Understandable. I just didn't like the term "dubious".
In his prime, Margarito might have been too much for Ortiz at this point but that's not the Margarito that's fighting now or has been since getting blitzed by Shane Mosley. When I make the comparison it's with the men as they are, not what they may be or used to be.
That's not who Pacquiao fought. He fought a guy who was just holding on to the one thing he knows he can do and make money, similar to Ricky Hatton pummelling Castillo.
He wasn't the undisputed champion. He lost his WBO title to Paul Williams and never fought him again, instead went after Cotto.
Cotto might be the best in his division but since he hasn't fought any good fighters in it, I think it's early to say that. As is his HoF status.
True but since we know styles make fights and Pacquiao, while not highly skilled is more skilled than Hatton, Ricky was the perfect opponent for him, even more than he was for Mayweather. Still, I think that was a legitimately great win but not a challenge.
You would be the only one who would put that shell of a figher as DLH was against Ortiz.
To say he was done after the Sturm robbery is revisionist history. He looked bad agaisnt Sturm because he was fighting outside his weight class and never adjusted to fighting as a middleweight. But he was coming off knocking out Ricardo Mayorga (back when that meant something) for the Mayweather fight and it was his weight of jr middle, not Floyd's at welter.
Okay. Then apply that same logic to Floyd challenging the reigning welterweight champions in Carlos Baldomir (no question a journeyman but still a legitimate champion), Zab Judah, and Victor Ortiz.
Ultimately, with you, I just ask for you to apply the same yardstick to all fighters. I've been asking for that in vain for a couple years now and I guess I'm too stubborn to quit or too naive thinking you might someday.
Carlos, Zab, and Ortiz were just title holders. The are not hof'er or guys that ruled divisions. To compare them to the guys I named seems silly. But oh well. You are entitled to your opinion. I just disagree.
Corley was the welterweight champion when he and Floyd fought? Was he a champion at all?
At this stage of their careers, of course he's better than Margarito. Cotto? Maybe. He's definitely better at 147 than Hatton was and stood a better chance at Mayweather than Hatton did Pacquiao.
Lmao, the Corley was another fighter that held a belt. But he never was a pound for pound type of fighter. Ever.
That's not who Pacquiao fought. He fought a guy who was just holding on to the one thing he knows he can do and make money, similar to Ricky Hatton pummelling Castillo.
He wasn't the undisputed champion. He lost his WBO title to Paul Williams and never fought him again, instead went after Cotto.
I agree with the Antonio comments. Also keep in mind Antonio, Paul, and Cotto are all fighters PBF refused to fight. That is PBF's MO. He gets in a division that has talent. Takes the easy fight and forces the other champs to fight each other. Ricky's victory or Castillo doesn't even register.
Cotto might be the best in his division but since he hasn't fought any good fighters in it, I think it's early to say that. As is his HoF status. True.
True but since we know styles make fights and Pacquiao, while not highly skilled is more skilled than Hatton, Ricky was the perfect opponent for him, even more than he was for Mayweather. Still, I think that was a legitimately great win but not a challenge. Seriously. Manny is not highly skilled? It was a quality win though. I agree. Not only was it a quality win. It was an impressive showing by Manny.
To say he was done after the Sturm robbery is revisionist history. He looked bad agaisnt Sturm because he was fighting outside his weight class and never adjusted to fighting as a middleweight. I saw it as a clear robbery. But if you think I'm using some revisionist history, cool. I don't think it was anything but a bullshit decision that was in play not to derail him versus BHOP.
Ultimately, with you, I just ask for you to apply the same yardstick to all fighters. I've been asking for that in vain for a couple years now and I guess I'm too stubborn to quit or too naive thinking you might someday.
Carlos, Zab, and Ortiz were just title holders. The are not hof'er or guys that ruled divisions. To compare them to the guys I named seems silly. But oh well. You are entitled to your opinion. I just disagree.
Corley was the welterweight champion when he and Floyd fought? Was he a champion at all?
At this stage of their careers, of course he's better than Margarito. Cotto? Maybe. He's definitely better at 147 than Hatton was and stood a better chance at Mayweather than Hatton did Pacquiao.
Lmao, the Corley was another fighter that held a belt. But he never was a pound for pound type of fighter. Ever.
That's not who Pacquiao fought. He fought a guy who was just holding on to the one thing he knows he can do and make money, similar to Ricky Hatton pummelling Castillo.
He wasn't the undisputed champion. He lost his WBO title to Paul Williams and never fought him again, instead went after Cotto.
I agree with the Antonio comments. Also keep in mind Antonio, Paul, and Cotto are all fighters PBF refused to fight. That is PBF's MO. He gets in a division that has talent. Takes the easy fight and forces the other champs to fight each other. Ricky's victory or Castillo doesn't even register.
Cotto might be the best in his division but since he hasn't fought any good fighters in it, I think it's early to say that. As is his HoF status. True.
True but since we know styles make fights and Pacquiao, while not highly skilled is more skilled than Hatton, Ricky was the perfect opponent for him, even more than he was for Mayweather. Still, I think that was a legitimately great win but not a challenge. Seriously. Manny is not highly skilled? It was a quality win though. I agree. Not only was it a quality win. It was an impressive showing by Manny.
To say he was done after the Sturm robbery is revisionist history. He looked bad agaisnt Sturm because he was fighting outside his weight class and never adjusted to fighting as a middleweight. I saw it as a clear robbery. But if you think I'm using some revisionist history, cool. I don't think it was anything but a bullshit decision that was in play not to derail him versus BHOP.
Okay. Then apply that same logic to Floyd challenging the reigning welterweight champions in Carlos Baldomir (no question a journeyman but still a legitimate champion), Zab Judah, and Victor Ortiz.
Ultimately, with you, I just ask for you to apply the same yardstick to all fighters. I've been asking for that in vain for a couple years now and I guess I'm too stubborn to quit or too naive thinking you might someday.
Carlos, Zab, and Ortiz were just title holders. The are not hof'er or guys that ruled divisions. To compare them to the guys I named seems silly. But oh well. You are entitled to your opinion. I just disagree.
Corley was the welterweight champion when he and Floyd fought? Was he a champion at all?
At this stage of their careers, of course he's better than Margarito. Cotto? Maybe. He's definitely better at 147 than Hatton was and stood a better chance at Mayweather than Hatton did Pacquiao.
Lmao, the Corley was another fighter that held a belt. But he never was a pound for pound type of fighter. Ever.
That's not who Pacquiao fought. He fought a guy who was just holding on to the one thing he knows he can do and make money, similar to Ricky Hatton pummelling Castillo.
He wasn't the undisputed champion. He lost his WBO title to Paul Williams and never fought him again, instead went after Cotto.
I agree with the Antonio comments. Also keep in mind Antonio, Paul, and Cotto are all fighters PBF refused to fight. That is PBF's MO. He gets in a division that has talent. Takes the easy fight and forces the other champs to fight each other. Ricky's victory or Castillo doesn't even register.
Cotto might be the best in his division but since he hasn't fought any good fighters in it, I think it's early to say that. As is his HoF status. True.
True but since we know styles make fights and Pacquiao, while not highly skilled is more skilled than Hatton, Ricky was the perfect opponent for him, even more than he was for Mayweather. Still, I think that was a legitimately great win but not a challenge. Seriously. Manny is not highly skilled? It was a quality win though. I agree. Not only was it a quality win. It was an impressive showing by Manny.
To say he was done after the Sturm robbery is revisionist history. He looked bad agaisnt Sturm because he was fighting outside his weight class and never adjusted to fighting as a middleweight. I saw it as a clear robbery. But if you think I'm using some revisionist history, cool. I don't think it was anything but a bullshit decision that was in play not to derail him versus BHOP.
Ultimately, with you, I just ask for you to apply the same yardstick to all fighters. I've been asking for that in vain for a couple years now and I guess I'm too stubborn to quit or too naive thinking you might someday.
Carlos, Zab, and Ortiz were just title holders. The are not hof'er or guys that ruled divisions. To compare them to the guys I named seems silly. But oh well. You are entitled to your opinion. I just disagree.
Corley was the welterweight champion when he and Floyd fought? Was he a champion at all?
At this stage of their careers, of course he's better than Margarito. Cotto? Maybe. He's definitely better at 147 than Hatton was and stood a better chance at Mayweather than Hatton did Pacquiao.
Lmao, the Corley was another fighter that held a belt. But he never was a pound for pound type of fighter. Ever.
That's not who Pacquiao fought. He fought a guy who was just holding on to the one thing he knows he can do and make money, similar to Ricky Hatton pummelling Castillo.
He wasn't the undisputed champion. He lost his WBO title to Paul Williams and never fought him again, instead went after Cotto.
I agree with the Antonio comments. Also keep in mind Antonio, Paul, and Cotto are all fighters PBF refused to fight. That is PBF's MO. He gets in a division that has talent. Takes the easy fight and forces the other champs to fight each other. Ricky's victory or Castillo doesn't even register.
Cotto might be the best in his division but since he hasn't fought any good fighters in it, I think it's early to say that. As is his HoF status. True.
True but since we know styles make fights and Pacquiao, while not highly skilled is more skilled than Hatton, Ricky was the perfect opponent for him, even more than he was for Mayweather. Still, I think that was a legitimately great win but not a challenge. Seriously. Manny is not highly skilled? It was a quality win though. I agree. Not only was it a quality win. It was an impressive showing by Manny.
To say he was done after the Sturm robbery is revisionist history. He looked bad agaisnt Sturm because he was fighting outside his weight class and never adjusted to fighting as a middleweight. I saw it as a clear robbery. But if you think I'm using some revisionist history, cool. I don't think it was anything but a bullshit decision that was in play not to derail him versus BHOP.
Buk what division did Cotto, Williams or Margy dominate? I mean come on son... Be reasonable about something. When Floyd retire who was the number one welter weight? Who had ran through everyone...
Was it Shane with one win over Collazo and a lost to Cotto a month before the retirement?
Maybe it was Cotto with wins over Quintana, Judah who is not worth mentioning to you and Shane?
Maybe Clottey with a loss to Margarito and a win over Cotrales?
Maybe Collazo with what should have been a win against Hatton and a lost to Shane?
Maybe Williams with victories over Sharmba and Margarito...?
Wait it has to be Margarito who beat Cintron and Clottey, but loss to Williams?
I hope you see the pattern most of these guys had not established themselves and none had two wins over guys in the running... When it start to take shape no one fought Williams, besides Margarito and there were only one cats laying claim to being the best welter weight with Manny taking the title of catch weight king.
Everyone wanted Floyd to fight Shane cause he was the best at the time.
Was it Shane with one win over Collazo and a lost to Cotto a month before the retirement?
Maybe it was Cotto with wins over Quintana, Judah who is not worth mentioning to you and Shane?
Maybe Clottey with a loss to Margarito and a win over Cotrales?
Maybe Collazo with what should have been a win against Hatton and a lost to Shane?
Maybe Williams with victories over Sharmba and Margarito...?
Wait it has to be Margarito who beat Cintron and Clottey, but loss to Williams?
I hope you see the pattern most of these guys had not established themselves and none had two wins over guys in the running... When it start to take shape no one fought Williams, besides Margarito and there were only one cats laying claim to being the best welter weight with Manny taking the title of catch weight king.
Everyone wanted Floyd to fight Shane cause he was the best at the time.
Lol, funny how all the top guys were fighting each other will PBF sat on the sidelines like he normally does. I am not going to knock fighters who actually step up and fight the other top guys while the so called best sits back and does nothing.
I get he is all about money and belts don't mean shit to him. Except when he is fighting lesser talent for a shit load of money. I get that you are sipping the PBF Kool-Aid. I just don't get how he avoids tough fights and people act as though he is an all time great fighter.
So you don't even admit you were talking a bunch of bullshit, but try to change the subject. Familiar tactic. Those guys had to fight the Cintrons or Sharambas to get to the top much like Floyd did coming into welter weight when Zab Judah was the top guy. Did everyone fight each... No. I would have loved to see if Berto had fought these guys or Collazo v Cotto... or any of those guys against P Williams... But besides all of that who of these guys were calling Floyd out around the times he fought Oscar... Hatton. What about on the way to Hatton...? Nobody that I know of. Which one of these guys is or was a tough fight for Floyd? It comes down to the lucky punch scenario with all of them.
This is a myth. Ive already exposed it before as Floyd had offers on the table to fight both Cotto and Margarito. Arum balked on the deal...not Floyd.
And Im someone who has long stated the biggest knock on Floyd when he retires is going to be his resume.
Buk this was not that long ago... Is your memory that bad or do you thinks its gay to use facts and actual history.
Last edited:
I think the history books will be a lot kinder than people think. I've ask buk several times to present any statement from guy saying Floyd ducked them before Floyd became the cash cow that everyone wanted to fight... Still not a single thing, not even a second hand rumor from these sources that name guys like Mathew Hatton as his next opponent.
Lower nupe, Zef and the rest of you guys... how about you join the discussion. Show me where I'm wrong instead of running in with half truths and then running away or childish name calling without any substance to combat what I'm saying. I'm not even against the shit talking... I just prefer some attempt at talking about boxing along with it. Buk is doing a bad job at this.
read the link in my siggy.
Read my multiple post exposing your bullshit and respond directly to what I've said.
Ok and buk. An article just saying the fights didn't happen yearys after the fact isn't the same as fighter saying a guy ducked me. I've explain the difference to you before.
I've already joined in. At some point, you will believe what you want and I will believe what I want no matter what is said. Regarding this particular topic, I actually feel ashamed of myself to participate in this over and over again every time either Mayweather or Pacquiao makes a peep to the media. They get fans on both sides all riled up and then nothing happens in the end. It's really just embarrassing to be duped and drawn into this topic over and over again but feel free to continue.
Fair enough... Any info on your source?
Ok dude
And your still avoiding
I would never say how I know it but it will come out just like what I said about Oscar de La Hoya and the chicks using the strap-on on him. I wrote an article and mentioned this about 2 years before it was news and people thought I was bullshitting. I never care because my information is solid even though I choose to be outlandish for entertainment purposes.
Similar threads
