shaquille o'neal is TOO fat, TOO slow, TOO old

[SpiritualPorn]

A Good analysis of the two teams and why most sportscasters are entertainers:

The Miami Heat and Detroit Pistons met in a memorable conference final a year ago, with the outcome not decided until the final minute of Game 7. This year, they're once again the class of the East, and the long-expected showdown between the two clubs has finally come to fruition.

Despite the differences in the two teams' records, this series should once again be a tooth-and-nail affair. You might not think that in looking at Detroit's 64-18 mark on the season and comparing it to Miami's relatively unimpressive 52-30 record. But break down each team's season and you'll see a very different pattern. The difference between the two clubs came in the first 41 games, when Detroit went 36-5 while Miami went 24-17.

But in the second half of the season, there was no difference -- each went 28-13. And in the postseason, Miami is a half-game better, with an 8-3 mark against Detroit's 8-4.

So the question is: What information is most important when evaluating the two teams?

The obvious answer is that the more recent the result, the heavier the weight we should give it.

This is especially true in the case of the Heat, because the team underwent so many changes in the offseason, and changed coaches a quarter of the way through the season. Miami's lineup had some well-chronicled difficulties in coming together as a unit, but in the second half and the postseason it seems to have finally jelled. Basically, the Heat's results from November are almost irrelevant, because that was a very different team than the one taking the floor tonight.

Meanwhile, Detroit seems to be moving in the opposite direction. The Pistons won 35 of their first 40 games behind one of the league's most improved offenses, but they haven't sustained that performance since midseason. In particular, Detroit's offense looked so tentative and unimaginative in its entirely too-close series against Cleveland that some wondered if Rick Carlisle had snuck into the locker room and reinstalled his playbook.

There's also the historical angle. Heat fans are quick to point out that they seemed well on their way to a series win last season before Dwyane Wade pulled a muscle in his rib cage late in Game 5. With Wade out for Game 6 and still very limited in the finale, Miami had trouble mustering any offense and fell short both times.

This time, both teams enter the series as close to full health as any club can reasonably expect at this time of year, so injuries aren't a factor … so far, at least. But some other areas look to be major issues, so before I get into the predictions business, we need to closely examine them. And this time, they're so big that I've expanded my normal "four questions" format to include six.

Detroit faced the inevitable perils of success. Arrogance and Pride go before the fall.

 

[Spectrum]

SP,

What I see the Pistons lacking mostly is intensity and Defense. The Pistons were known for their defense...teams were intimidated by the Piston´s Defense and it has been a nonfactor in the playoffs. I wouldn´t call the team arrogant, but something is differently lacking during the post-season. The reality of the situation is that Defense was the one thing that set us apart from most teams in the league...without that gritty Detroit Defense we are just an above average team..seriously. The Heat didnt lose that serious because Wade got hurt...The Pistons played different basketball last season than they are playing now.

 

[SpiritualPorn]

Obviously I want my Pistons to win, but I would love to see Shaq get another title..specifically to put that Kobe talk to rest.

Now to put on my Pistons hat:

1) Flip Saunders....When I see him on the podium in the press confrences I think to my self," If I was a multi-million dollar athlete that made more than the coach would this guy motivate me?" The answer comes back a resounding HELL TO THE N-O!

He looks defeated already. Like he has no answers.His handling of his players comments ("They need to look in the mirror"...."They need to execute") is the sure sign of a weak coach. Lawrance Frank took a step up an said he let his team down. He took as much responsibility for the loss as he could. I would play with a brokenankle for someone like that. As much as I cannot stand Larry Brown he would get something out of me because HE WOULD PISS ME OFF and put me in the press.

2) Championship runs: .... Championship runs involve playing additional games well after the season ends.That is alot of games played that take their toll. The way Detroit went through the regular season reminded me of Miami last year. More worried about home court advantage instead of staying healthy.
FlipFlop Saunders could have well used that time to get players developed and try new offensive and defensive schemes. He doesn't have the confidence to sustain a losing streak for the sake of improvement.

In addition teams DRAFT AND SIGN PLAYERS SPECFICALLY TO BEAT YOU. If a team doesn't get better WHILE being the best they will eventually get like Detroit is now. CAUGHT UP. Thats why what Phil and the Lakers\Bulls did is so incredible. THE FOCUS it takes to MAINTAIN SUCCESS IS MUCH HARDER THAN GETTING IT IN THE FIRST PLACE.

3) Players get older...... Billups and Hamilton are being exposed. Billups is the most humble of the group and is the most important player on the team. However Payton has him on lock. This is not the same Heat team with Flamin Damon Jones who Big Shot posted up last year for at least 10 points a game. He has tried to post up Payton and it hasn't worked. Also Miami is doing an excellent job of flashing over the the pick.
Hamilton is being shown up as a cheap shot artist whose defense is non existent. They weren't calling him on it before. Sheed even said before the series that Wade doesn't get the calls Lebron gets so it won't be as difficult to guard him.


Sheed needs to STFU and get back to playing like the first year he got there. He is starting to remind of the Portland Sheed that would be the disruption in the team.

Wallace and Prince are cool. Hunter is always tough. Dale Davis is BS. What happened to Delk? Flip is Flopping on the rotation. Help me with this one Cran, I really don't understand his rotation.

A couple of personel moves and the Pistons are right back in the picture... NEXT YEAR.

They need to FIRE FLIP SAUNDERS. You can lose a seven game series however what is going on now is a collapse. You have to start looking at who was the last one to come in the house when you smell shit!

 

[Spectrum]

SP,

Agree with everything you have said here completely. My heart wants this team to win because it is my hometeam, but they certainly don´t deserve to win. I´m still in Brasil so I dont see most of the games. The most surprising thing is to hear that the team is playing with NO HEART. Thought I would never hear that about a Piston´s team. But if the Heat close this out..i am all for Shaq and the Heat.

 

[cranrab]

Help me with this one Cran, I really don't understand his rotation.

it's pretty easy. coach saunders installed a CONCEPTUAL defensive framework without considering the personnel he has on the floor. it's not working, and his substitution patterns are a last-ditch effort to find something that works. a little too late for that now. ben wallace has been quoted as saying something similar.

i don't have BIG problems with coach saunders' substitutions. i do have a problem with his use of rasheed wallace. I AM A FAN OF RASHEED WALLACE. that said, coach saunders should've looked more closely at coach brown's use of rasheed wallace in the post season. rasheed wallace should be used sparingly in the first halves, and brought in fresh for a full second half.

the problems the pistons are having on D is that coach saunders abandoned 2 SIGNIFICANT strategies that were successful for coach brown in the past.

1) use HELP (NOT doubles) to funnel penetration.

2) anticipate and overplay the passing lanes for release passes into the corners.

with 1 foot in the grave, the detroit pistons may find the point of this discussion moot. but in fairness to coach saunders, maybe the heat would've defeated coach brown too last season, if not for the injuries to shaquille o'neal AND dwyane wade.

 

[SpiritualPorn]

it's pretty easy. coach saunders installed a CONCEPTUAL defensive framework without considering the personnel he has on the floor. it's not working, and his substitution patterns are a last-ditch effort to find something that works. a little too late for that now. ben wallace has been quoted as saying something similar.

i don't have BIG problems with coach saunders' substitutions. i do have a problem with his use of rasheed wallace. I AM A FAN OF RASHEED WALLACE. that said, coach saunders should've looked more closely at coach brown's use of rasheed wallace in the post season. rasheed wallace should be used sparingly in the first halves, and brought in fresh for a full second half.

the problems the pistons are having on D is that coach saunders abandoned 2 SIGNIFICANT strategies that were successful for coach brown in the past.

1) use HELP (NOT doubles) to funnel penetration.

2) anticipate and overplay the passing lanes for release passes into the corners.

with 1 foot in the grave, the detroit pistons may find the point of this discussion moot. but in fairness to coach saunders, maybe the heat would've defeated coach brown too last season, if not for the injuries to shaquille o'neal AND dwyane wade.

I can roll with that.

Sheed might be injured also.

Good point about Sheed.

Barkley said that the Pistons are "punks" for selling out their coach. Magic basically agreed. As players they have the right to say that.

I just don't believe the way the Pistons are built that they could work without coaching. Outside of Billups I don't see anyone that has the BBall Intel. They win alot of confidence and effort. The coach for them funnels ithat raw talent into playoff wins.

 

[Spectrum]

I can roll with that.

Sheed might be injured also.

Good point about Sheed.

Barkley said that the Pistons are "punks" for selling out their coach. Magic basically agreed. As players they have the right to say that.

I just don't believe the way the Pistons are built that they could work without coaching. Outside of Billups I don't see anyone that has the BBall Intel. They win alot of confidence and effort. The coach for them funnels ithat raw talent into playoff wins.

Check out this article SP..about the Pistons and the Heat..some good analysis here..
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2006/news/story?id=2464207&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines

 

[SpiritualPorn]

Check out this article SP..about the Pistons and the Heat..some good analysis here..
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2006/news/story?id=2464207&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines

Ben WAAAALLLLLLACCCCEEE stuffed the fuck outta Shaq !!!!!!

DAMNNNNN !!!!!!!!

Good win for the Pistons. I wanted to win on their home floor SOOOOOO bad.

We'll get them here in Miami.

Billups is still getting stopped and has not made the adjustment (or rather Flip hasnt).

Miami was in it the whole game however I think they were overconfident.

They matched Detroits energy however when you miss 16 + freethrows then you deserve to lose.

Billups :"The Pressure is on them because they don't want to come back here"

WTF?!?!?!?!

WHO is facing elimination here? OH. Thats what I thought.

MIAMI will win game six.

 

[SpiritualPorn]

Good Info EEWWLL:

Assist:

[FRAME]http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2006/news/story?id=2464207&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines[/FRAME]

 

[TimRock]

What a coincidence. Now Wade is sick. So if Miami loses tonight, they can use this as an excuse. I'm not falling for it. The NBA just wants this thing to go to 7 games. Or could we be seeing another Jordan scenario. Jordan gets the flu and still performs at an all-star rate and wins the game. I guess if Wade does the same thing tonight, he will be considered "The Next Jordan". No matter what, Miami will win tonight.


[FRAME]http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/14725947.htm[/FRAME]

 

[SpiritualPorn]

What a coincidence. Now Wade is sick. So if Miami loses tonight, they can use this as an excuse. I'm not falling for it. The NBA just wants this thing to go to 7 games. Or could we be seeing another Jordan scenario. Jordan gets the flu and still performs at an all-star rate and wins the game. I guess if Wade does the same thing tonight, he will be considered "The Next Jordan". No matter what, Miami will win tonight.

I was thinking they wanted this to go 7 games when I saw Shaq pick up two early fouls in Game 5.

We'll see

Miami would win a Game 7 in Detroit anyway.

 

[Spectrum]

I was thinking they wanted this to go 7 games when I saw Shaq pick up two early fouls in Game 5.

We'll see

Miami would win a Game 7 in Detroit anyway.

SP,

If it goes to game 7, Miami will not win. It will be a double digit win for the Pistons if it returns to the Palace. I dont know the stats, but home teams rarely lose game 7s..and the pistons are one of the best home teams in the league and they will have alot of momentum.

BTW..here was the block you were talking about.

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/fWo-VA1mf6Y"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/fWo-VA1mf6Y" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

 

[xfactor]

wonder how jerry the genius likes watching the playoffs at home with his $15M pet project player when his franchise could be in the WCF instead...

How about being in the finals

Shaquille O'Neal tonight - 28 pts (12-14 FGA), 16 rebs, 5 blks in 33 mins

Wobe - 0 pts, 0 rebs, 0 ast



On another note, if Jerry Buss is 'the genius' then Jerry West is 'the guru'

Former Grizzlies in tonight's game -

Jason Williams - 21 pts (10-12 FGA) 6 ast

James Posey - 3 pts and 11 rebs

Jerry 'the genius' and Jerry 'the guru' ... Both from the lakers organization

 

[cranrab]

can i finally use this M.F. yet?

i started this post 3+ months ago and i think i've MORE than proven my point. or rather, shaquille o'neal has MORE than proven my point.

dwyane wade has been getting QUITE a bit of pub (and good for him), but i STILL insist that shaquille o'neal is the PRIMARY reason for the miami heat's success.

in games 1 through 5 of the ECF, dwyane wade averaged 41 minutes played (3+ quarters of ball), 65.8% FGAs , 5.4 rebounds, 4.6 assists, 2 steals, 1.6 blocked shots, and 29.2 points (due largely to his 80% FTA) per game. on the negative side, dwyane wade also averaged a disgusting 5 TOs per game.

in games 1 through 5 of the ECF, shaquille o'neal averaged 34.6 minutes played (< 3 quarters of ball), 61.4% FGAs , 9.4 rebounds, 1.8 blocked shots, and 20.4 points (due largely to his disgusting 41% FTA ) per game. on the negative side, shaquille o'neal also averaged a disgusting 4.2 TOs.

so if dwyane wade posted better numbers is SOME significant statistical categories, why would i give the knod to shaquille o'neal? 2 reasons.

1) in game 5, shaquille o'neal was saddled with 3 PFs in the 1st half. shaquille o'neal only saw 12:18 playing time in the first half of game 5, and the pistons went into the half with a 4 point lead. dwyane wade was unable to put the miami heat on his shoulders and carry them to victory.

2) in game 6, shaquile o'neal didn't have the same foul trouble. shaquille o'neal put the heat on his shoulders and carried them to victory. 28 points on 12-14 (85.7% ) FGAs, 16 rebounds, 5 blocked shots in LESS THAN 34 minutes.

where's the armenian with his jib jab now?



damn shame when he ran HIMSELF off the board with all that tobe bullshit, but now he got DOUBLE owned talking nonsense about shaquille o'neal too.

jerry buss still looking like a genius now, clowns?

 

[Spectrum]

Shaq´s number are nice. FGA percentage is just insane man. I am a Piston´s fan, but I don´t feel bad losing to Shaq and the Heat. I hope they win the title..and finally put the Shaq won´t win another one without Kobe talk to rest.

 

[cranrab]

I hope they win the title..and finally put the Shaq won´t win another one without Kobe talk to rest.

if such a creature existed in nature, it would be a straight fluke. there is NO such thing as santa clause, the easter bunny or an intelligent tobe fan. hence, tobe fans would never let that dog lie.

if shaquille o'neal and the miami heat won the championship this season (or any other season), tobe fans would say "so what?". in spite of the PLETHORA of evidence to the contrary, they'd still stupidly insist that tobe is the reason why shaquille o'neal succeeded with the fakers.

to RATIONAL individuals, the book is already closed and the evidence has been weighed. look what both have done apart from one another. should be case closed, but it's not. even though tobe can't hold a candle to the best of his contemporaries (shaquille o'neal and TD), tobe fans foolishly continue to make absurd comparisons of tobe with michael jordan.

in the spirit of this thread, i offer these post game 6 quotes:

PAT RILEY

Now that it's over, it's been a long haul for the franchise and it's been a long haul for you down here. Talk about how it feels to get to this point. :

We've had a lot of near misses, unlucky bounces, suspensions. We've had very good teams that I thought were championship contenders. We had a major, major setback with Zo's kidney, when that set us back, and two years to rebuild. But ever since Shaquille O'Neal showed up on the scene, this team has been a legitimate contender, and we have put pieces around him. Obviously the drafting of Dwyane Wade and what he's become has sped the whole process up.

I just feel great that after 11 years, especially for Mickey, one of the great owners in this league and committed to these fans and to this team that he's got a chance to win a championship. So once we take a day off and sort of gather ourselves, our work just begins.

In light of the Dwyane Wade sickness before today's game and in light of Jason Williams' performance, did you make a conscious effort to ask your role players in general and maybe Jason in particular to be more aggressive at times?

During the season it appeared that certain players just as Jason would pass off a lot and defer to the two superstars. I think one of the things about this whole team, as they have been judged, and there's been a lot of witnesses out there that have followed the team and commented on the team, this team in spite of the characteristics of the players and the personalities, they've all sacrificed a tremendous amount. I mean, guys that came here and sacrificed money. Zo is playing for a minimum, Gary Payton is playing for the minimum. Antoine Walker took less than what he could get. There's a long list of players that have sacrificed not only financially but minutes, position, their egos, the kind of games they've had before, and while everybody has been sort of taking them apart, they have been quietly becoming a team.

Jason Williams has done exactly what we've asked him to do, which is to distribute the ball and make shots when he's open, and it wasn't me. I do know that the players one by one or at times have brought him aside, took him in and said you've got to be more aggressive, go for it, play your game. I think you saw his game tonight. It was at the right time, there's no doubt.

Can you just talk about what a performance that was from Shaquille at a time when you needed it?

Well, he's very focused. This morning at the shoot around when we didn't know if Dwyane was really going to play tonight. We felt he'd be here, but I mean, Shaquille is Shaquille. We couldn't get him the ball enough. We couldn't straight post him up, so we started doing a lot of things to move him a little bit on pick and rolls so he could get the ball. He had 19 at halftime and nine rebounds, started the whole thing for us and made sure that we were organized. Without him, we probably wouldn't be there tonight. He had a great game.

 

[Spectrum]

I actually read those articles that you used..from NBA.com...and I know what you mean about rational people would understand who was the determining factor on those Laker teams. I understand that Kobe was not the essential ingredient in the Lakers organization when they were winning titles;however, it is a phrase that I am tiring of hearing.."Well..Shaq hasnt won a title without Kobe"..I will be glad that the Kobe fans won´t be able to use it anymore if the Heat wins. I like Wade...he is the truth, but Shaq has made Wade, Kobe, and Hardaway all look phenomenal. Shaq opens the floor up for these types of players. I am still amazed that Shaq really doesn´t get the respect he deserves. I laugh at people who say he is only good because he is BIGGER than everyone else...you gotta be kidding me. Anyway..I think this would say it all..two years later....Shaq is holding the trophy while Kobe is fishing.

 

[SpiritualPorn]

I actually read those articles that you used..from NBA.com...and I know what you mean about rational people would understand who was the determining factor on those Laker teams. I understand that Kobe was not the essential ingredient in the Lakers organization when they were winning titles;however, it is a phrase that I am tiring of hearing.."Well..Shaq hasnt won a title without Kobe"..I will be glad that the Kobe fans won´t be able to use it anymore if the Heat wins.

Thats the catch...RATIONAL people.

Oh They will use it. Some people hate being wrong so they lie to themselves. Just check out the insidehoops board and you will see all kind of foolish shit.

In reality , KOBE NEVER WON WITHOUT SHAQ.

I like Wade...he is the truth, but Shaq has made Wade, Kobe, and Hardaway all look phenomenal. Shaq opens the floor up for these types of players. I am still amazed that Shaq really doesn´t get the respect he deserves

.

It's some kind of bias in the press when it comes to Shaq. I hate to say it , however if Shaq was white what kind of press would he get? SHit for that matter he would probably get about 10 more free throws per game.
Shaq just keeps proving them wrong.

That fat and out of shape label has been put in the garbage. Most of the press looks shocked and in awe right now.

Buss\Mitch\Kobe probably had to turn that game off midway throught the first quarter.

I was wondering how come Riley got so much criticism. Eddie Jones had been fucking up for years down here. On radio talk shows down here damn near every other call was about getting rid of Eddie Jones. Nice guy however he has never shown up big in the playoffs. With a max contract he needed to play better. Riley not only got rid of a choker, he got rid of 17.5 mil (give or take) a year in cap space.

Flamin Damon Jones straight threw away the game last year. I give Detroit credit, they did not beat themselves in the fourth quater. Miami had played as well as they could have and were up by 5. Jones goes to the lane, jumps in the air with nothing open , threw the ball straight to Detroit and gave the game away. Mind you Wade was hurt and the Heat probably would have not won Game 6 (05) with a healthy Wade. Game 7 was ours to lose and we did.


As a Heat fan, as soon as Jones did that stupid shit I said "We fuckin lost?". Then in the summer Jones was holding out for more money. He eventually ended up in Clevland and we all saw how he handled Game 7 in the series with Detroit. Dude didn't even start for Clevland throughout the playoffs. Whenever Snow went to the bench and Jones came in Billups would post him up ASAP and score.

To underscore your point, Shaq makes it all work. There is no other inside presence in the game today that can score, defend, rebound and assist as well as Shaq or even close.

I wont even start on his leadership qualities. That is a whole nother post.

I laugh at people who say he is only good because he is BIGGER than everyone else...you gotta be kidding me. Anyway..I think this would say it all..two years later....Shaq is holding the trophy while Kobe is fishing.

Because he's BIG..

So is or was : Ostertag, Shawn Bradley, Mutumbo,Dampier, Kevin Willis, John Salley,Ben Wallace, etc......... and they still cannot do what Shaq is doing on a bad night.

What suprises me more is the former players that talk shit about Shaq. WTF. Mark Jackson??!?!?!? He really needs to STFU.......Pippen has gone waaaay down in my estimation because of his mouth.... The white sports "Journalists" just hate Shaq because he is not ashamed of being a black man and isn't trying to conform.

Was I the only one that wanted to smack Jim Gray when he was getting up at Prince last night?

Rasheed left the building without speaking to reporters. I wonder why. Ever since he made that prediction in the Clevland series the Pistons have lost more than they have won.

On a side note on Sheed':.......On a call in show a person who attended game 4 said that Sheed told Saunders "Fuck YOU" . Sheed did not show up in this series.

at Kobe gone fishing.

 

[cranrab]

post game 6 quotes from dwyane wade:

You want to talk about J.W.'s play tonight playing the supporting cast for you?

Oh, man, hats off to my teammates. He did a great job. Jason Williams did an unbelievable job tonight hitting 10 out of 12 shots. Not having the best series and really coming out when we needed him stepping up. I seen it from the get go. I knew Udonis was going to be ready, Antoine played great, James. On and on, Gary and Alonzo, they really wanted it. We rode Shaq when other guys weren't doing nothing, and I had a chance to come in and put my little two cents in with the team, I do that as much as possible. But they did it tonight, so I'm proud of them guys.

What does it mean to Shaq being back to the finals after not having gone the last few years, and also do you see a difference in his commitment and dedication compared to last year to get back there?

First of all, I know he's not close to being happy like the rest of us were celebrating. It's a lot of our first time going to the finals. But we celebrate tonight and move on. His goal is to win another championship, no question about it. But to get this team to where we are now and him being a big part, which he couldn't be as much last year because of the injury, it means a lot to him. We have a lot of respect for him and he's our leader, and we continue to listen to what he says, being prepared to embark on another finals for him.

 

[SpiritualPorn]

post game 6 quotes from dwyane wade:

You want to talk about J.W.'s play tonight playing the supporting cast for you?

Oh, man, hats off to my teammates. He did a great job. Jason Williams did an unbelievable job tonight hitting 10 out of 12 shots. Not having the best series and really coming out when we needed him stepping up. I seen it from the get go. I knew Udonis was going to be ready, Antoine played great, James. On and on, Gary and Alonzo, they really wanted it. We rode Shaq when other guys weren't doing nothing, and I had a chance to come in and put my little two cents in with the team, I do that as much as possible. But they did it tonight, so I'm proud of them guys.

What does it mean to Shaq being back to the finals after not having gone the last few years, and also do you see a difference in his commitment and dedication compared to last year to get back there?

First of all, I know he's not close to being happy like the rest of us were celebrating. It's a lot of our first time going to the finals. But we celebrate tonight and move on. His goal is to win another championship, no question about it. But to get this team to where we are now and him being a big part, which he couldn't be as much last year because of the injury, it means a lot to him. We have a lot of respect for him and he's our leader, and we continue to listen to what he says, being prepared to embark on another finals for him.

Riley has become an even better coach since his time off.

His insertion of AW in the starting line up at the start of the playoffs was genius. His intensity level has increased along with his agressiveness.

Shaq is playing , to me, the most intelligent BBall of his career.

TNT is picking Dallas. I don't se Miami losing.

The Mavs were struggling with an undersized, fatigued, injured Suns team and were losing at the half most of the time. When Miami clamps down on them they will have to try to win in a 90-100 point game and get stops.

No way........

They have no one for Dirk ? So what. Dirk is not going to beat you by himself. Shit let Dirk score 50 a night.

We know for sure if the Suns were holding their own in the rebound battle Miami will kill.

Lets not talk about points in the paint..

I see Miami in 5 again

 

[Spectrum]

Shaq is playing , to me, the most intelligent BBall of his career.

 

[Spectrum]

Flamin Damon Jones straight threw away the game last year. I give Detroit credit, they did not beat themselves in the fourth quater. Miami had played as well as they could have and were up by 5. Jones goes to the lane, jumps in the air with nothing open , threw the ball straight to Detroit and gave the game away. Mind you Wade was hurt and the Heat probably would have not won Game 6 (05) with a healthy Wade. Game 7 was ours to lose and we did.


As a Heat fan, as soon as Jones did that stupid shit I said "We fuckin lost?". Then in the summer Jones was holding out for more money. He eventually ended up in Clevland and we all saw how he handled Game 7 in the series with Detroit. Dude didn't even start for Clevland throughout the playoffs. Whenever Snow went to the bench and Jones came in Billups would post him up ASAP and score.

To underscore your point, Shaq makes it all work. There is no other inside presence in the game today that can score, defend, rebound and assist as well as Shaq or even close.

I wont even start on his leadership qualities. That is a whole nother post.





at Kobe gone fishing.

As a Piston´s fan I had to personally thank Damon Jones after that game
I´m surprised the coach left him in the game.. He´s shot was dead. He was turning the ball over, and Billups was abusing him on the end..but I remember that turnover..lol.

I have to agree with everything you said about Shaq. But I also do think that the most overlooked thing is the leadership ability. Just using the latest Pistons/Heat series as an example. Who is the clear leader on that Piston´s team? I can´t name anyone...even though they play well together, sometimes you need a leader that you can go to on the floor when everyone is struggling or you need someone who can emotionally charge the team. Shaq dominated the first half of game 6. I think he was shooting 87.6% by halftime. The game was really over by halftime. The Heat know that they can ride Shaq´s back when they need to...that gives a team a tremendous amount of confidence.

Look at his "series on the line" performance as compared to Kobe´s latest series on the line performance. The difference is night and day.

 

[SpiritualPorn]

SURE.

shaquille o'neal drops 31 pts, shot over 58% from the field, gathered 8 boards, and blocked 3 shots while helping the heat defeat the pistons...

EVEN if all of the speculation about his weight, conditioning and health were 100% correct (i say they are NOT), is there any other C in the league that has the impact of the supposedly 'broken-down' model of shaquille o'neal?

It's funny reading these posts now and seeing who was right.

Here is Shaq's first game against Jordan

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[SpiritualPorn]

Scaled Back
As the "last center left," O'Neal doesn't play as much or as powerfully as at 34
By Jerry Crowe
Times Staff Writer

May 27, 2006

MIAMI — The Most Dominant Ever dominates no more.



Shaquille O'Neal, who averaged career lows of 20 points and 9.2 rebounds during the regular season, is at 19 and 9.3 in the playoffs.

A Detroit columnist this week called him old and fat.


"He's definitely choosing his spots more," Ron Harper, O'Neal's former Lakers teammate and now an assistant coach with the Detroit Pistons, said at practice this week. "I mean, he's not the same guy. Father Time caught up to him some. He picks and chooses his spots, but when he wants to do what he wants to do, he's going to do it. He can still score the basketball, and his defense still changes up the game."

In the Eastern Conference finals, knotted at a game apiece going into Game 3 tonight at American Airlines Arena, the Pistons don't even bother to double-team him, even though their center, Ben Wallace, gives away nearly half a foot and probably about 85 pounds to O'Neal.

But that's nothing new.

Two years ago, with Wallace shadowing Shaq, the Pistons ganged up on Kobe Bryant and shocked the Lakers in the NBA Finals. Last year, using the same Shaq-won't-beat-us strategy, they beat the Heat in the Eastern finals.



"The injuries have definitely lowered his potential, because now, athletically, he can't do," television analyst Hubie Brown, a former NBA coach, said this week. "He doesn't have the second jump now.

"

And dominance diminishes.

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[SpiritualPorn]

Shaq dunking on Robinson in All Star game



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[Havoc]

I expect Jason Williams to choke, Dirk to play zero defense, possibly even get shut down (I just don't like him). I expect Shaq to have a great time (LOL@Diop/Dampier vs. O'Neal), D-Wade is going to drive the whole series (Mavericks don't have a Duncan or Shaq). I expect Walker to build a couple of mansions behind the arc. Gary Payton's going to get a technical.

 

[SpiritualPorn]

SP,

What I see the Pistons lacking mostly is intensity and Defense. The Pistons were known for their defense...teams were intimidated by the Piston´s Defense and it has been a nonfactor in the playoffs. I wouldn´t call the team arrogant, but something is differently lacking during the post-season. The reality of the situation is that Defense was the one thing that set us apart from most teams in the league...without that gritty Detroit Defense we are just an above average team..seriously. The Heat didnt lose that serious because Wade got hurt...The Pistons played different basketball last season than they are playing now.

I didn't see this at the time.

I am not sure that Maimi would have won even if Wade and Shaq weren't hurt either. At the same time I would not celebrate a Heat victory the same way if Billups was hurt.

No matter what, Detroit had to overcome alot to get to where they are. I watched them in the ECF the year before they won it and was impressed by their grittiness. When they got Rasheed I knew they would be in the Finals. They BEAT the Lakers....no doubt. However a five game sweep is not a competitive series. That is one team staying together and the other team collapsing.

The way Avery is preparing the Mavs has me worried. He is giving them the respect they are due and will not take things for granted.

Detroit is only two players away from being right back where they belong. I don't think they should pay Ben the Max. He was an obvious liability in the series. Flip ???????? He is a joke. He is not responsible for the loss however he had the focus wrong all season. You have to get to the Finals before you have home court advantage in the Finals.

 

[cranrab]

bump for 2011

 

[Spectrum]

bump for 2011

brought this one back from the grave.... this thread is crazy old..

 

[Costanza]

Jerry Buss made the right choice.