Writer's Circle: Why is it so difficult to write a BLACK show?

[playahaitian]

* serious writing and production discussion...

With the mega-success of Empire and Power before and black-ish during (shout out to fresh off the boat) why for DECADES has the entertainment industry claimed it so DIFFICULT to write Black voices?

the obvious answer is because they have no Black people behind the camera in the writers room in the director's chair etc...

but I read a great post by cousin Jay dade about how black people usually tend to support he WORST images of us. the worst stereotypes like many of the caricatures on Empire...and even when so called positive images are available they rarely support it.

http://www.bgol.us/board/showthread.php?t=836303&highlight=dash

So I've been discussing this with friends and I've heard a few different answers and one thing that was mentioned was would FRIENDS have worked if it was all Black cast? Could their have been an all black Seinfeld etc?

I remember Cosby was criticized earlier on bcasue the show never RELLY dealt with poverty drug use or sex pregnancy etc...and he esentially said we have covered that, exhausted that image.

And I alwasys agtreed but I also think we also need to be shown as filly formed multi faceted human beings too.

The Wire didn't offend me because it was BRILLIANT I feel good writing trumps all...I know many Italians that HATED the Sopranos but felt that was hollow, because the so called NEGATIVE stereotypes was essentially considered COOL.

Its all about the quality of the product THE STORY.

So I wanted to ask is it MORE difficult to WRITE POSITIVE images then negative images especially when it pertains to Black characters?​

 

[Blu Diablo]

Friends with an all black Cast was called Living Single, and before that, A Different World.

All black Seinfeld was Martin. These types of shows can work with all black casts.

I don't think it would be any more difficult to write positive black images, but I think "black" shows often leave stories and/or characters underdeveloped in exchange for the easier laugh or more simplified plot line.

 

[Mrfreddygoodbud]

because you have to have gays in it

and it cant have too much positive imagery..

or it cant be on cac tv....


the question is,

why cant we go hard with all the new venues we have

to put our work out?

fuck the networks, we just need to support each other

 

[Drayonis]

Really all I want in a science fiction show with a black cast or main character.

It's almost like super science, magic and what have you ONLY happens to whites. Shit's beyond old.

 

[TimRock]

Really all I want in a science fiction show with a black cast or main character.

It's almost like super science, magic and what have you ONLY happens to whites. Shit's beyond old.

or a drama with two main black people. Not one main black person, and the rest of the cast is all white, like Omar Epps' show.

How to get away with murder is a cool show. But also gives you the two main cliches that every show has these days - a gay person and an interracial couple.

 

[Flawless]

Really all I want in a science fiction show with a black cast or main character.

It's almost like super science, magic and what have you ONLY happens to whites. Shit's beyond old.

 

[freakp]

Real simple because blank women are considered the economic engine of black society and black woman don't read comic book or believe in fantasy. I hate to break it to y'all but black women are considered more ghetto than black men. Popular culture promote two kinds of black women 1. Nene leaks (ghetto ratchet over sensitized loud mouth) and 2. Tyler Perry church momma. ( yes I used a man in a women post cuz he is the other type of black woman) church based but not grounded in reality person who can't see the reality in front of them.

Black men are actually more aligned with white men in terms of likes and dislikes. But since we are not captains of industry and controlling more board rooms we can't sponsor the media of our choosing. Thus we are left to the Hollywood types to decide what we watch.

To prove my point look at bet line up. Look for any black shows or even web sites sponsored by Carver bank or a black company. Hard to find. But BMW has a film series, sprite, monster drinks, etc thus they support what they like or consider aligned with the brand they are pushing. Has Michael Jordon supported any TV?

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

It's not difficult at all.

Just give someone else an opportunity to do it

 

[gene cisco]

Of course it's not more difficult, but who the fuck is going to watch? I'd love to see a black Seinfeld. But would it sell? Seinfeld's family were stereotypical Jew characters, while he wasn't. He tried to get pussy during Schindler's List and made mockery of many Jewish customs. If a black show were written like that, it would melt the Internet. He also didn't have to go out of his way to poke fun at other races to get his comedy off. There's way more "(insert race) do such and such" in black comedy.

So again, you have to produce for your target audience. Sci-Fi and fantasy are basically out. Imagine trying to sell a black version of Charmed. It's like trying to sell the white version to the bible belt. A black version of the Big Bang Theory(black nerds) would fail miserably. Cats would be melting the Internet with blogs about them not connecting with the black community.

The list goes on and on. You have to give people what they want. So it's not that it's difficult, it's that there wouldn't be much profit in producing certain things so they just aren't done.

 

[II Dxnum]

It's not difficult to write a black show. It's difficult for a room of white writers to write black show.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

It's not difficult to write a black show. It's difficult for a room of white writers to write black show.

Impossible for them to do it.

 

[regulus]

American TV revolves around buffoonery and criminality and it's very difficult to have a black cast without looking blatantly racist.

 

[WhenTheGoingGetsTtuff]

The Sleepy Hollow police force is THEE most diverse police force in the WORLD. Abby is with a white and there's rumors she's "destined" to hook up with Ichabod. So... that doesn't count.

And if i remember right dude on DS9 was with white women too. Only black people on the show really were Cisco and his kid. And maybe worf....sorta.

 

[WhenTheGoingGetsTtuff]

Impossible for them to do it.

To write real. Relatable black characters.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

To write real. Relatable black characters.

It's insulting.

There would never be a show with a white cast filled with black writers, not ever. So how is it OK for a room full of white writers to be in charge of developing and writing black characters on a show?

 

[Problematic]

It's insulting.

There would never be a show with a white cast filled with black writers, not ever. So how is it OK for a room full of white writers to be in charge of developing and writing black characters on a show?

 

[Flawless]

The Sleepy Hollow police force is THEE most diverse police force in the WORLD. Abby is with a white and there's rumors she's "destined" to hook up with Ichabod. So... that doesn't count.

And if i remember right dude on DS9 was with white women too. Only black people on the show really were Cisco and his kid. And maybe worf....sorta.

"Rumors" and Cisko was with a black woman

 

[tallblacknyc]

the question is,

why cant we go hard with all the new venues we have

to put our work out?

fuck the networks, we just need to support each other

this man gets it.. it's 2015 and nigs still looking for jews to cosign shit..fuck that we got youtube, facebook, twitter, wssh, and various other outlets where nigs ain't gotta kiss some station ass

 

[Darrkman]

The Sleepy Hollow police force is THEE most diverse police force in the WORLD. Abby is with a white and there's rumors she's "destined" to hook up with Ichabod. So... that doesn't count.

And if i remember right dude on DS9 was with white women too. Only black people on the show really were Cisco and his kid. And maybe worf....sorta.

Nope.

This was Sisko's wife:

This was Sisko's girlfriend / second wife:

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

this man gets it.. it's 2015 and nigs still looking for jews to cosign shit..fuck that we got youtube, facebook, twitter, wssh, and various other outlets where nigs ain't gotta kiss some station ass

Will you support it is the question. that's the difference. support, sponsorship will they respect the new avenues. I'm trying the different avenues on my own right now.

 

[geechiedan]

* serious writing and production discussion...

With the mega-success of Empire and Power before and black-ish during (shout out to fresh off the boat) why for DECADES has the entertainment industry claimed it so DIFFICULT to write Black voices?

the obvious answer is because they have no Black people behind the camera in the writers room in the director's chair etc...

but I read a great post by cousin Jay dade about how black people usually tend to support he WORST images of us. the worst stereotypes like many of the caricatures on Empire...and even when so called positive images are available they rarely support it.

http://www.bgol.us/board/showthread.php?t=836303&highlight=dash

So I've been discussing this with friends and I've heard a few different answers and one thing that was mentioned was would FRIENDS have worked if it was all Black cast? Could their have been an all black Seinfeld etc?

I remember Cosby was criticized earlier on bcasue the show never RELLY dealt with poverty drug use or sex pregnancy etc...and he esentially said we have covered that, exhausted that image.

And I alwasys agtreed but I also think we also need to be shown as filly formed multi faceted human beings too.

The Wire didn't offend me because it was BRILLIANT I feel good writing trumps all...I know many Italians that HATED the Sopranos but felt that was hollow, because the so called NEGATIVE stereotypes was essentially considered COOL.

Its all about the quality of the product THE STORY.

So I wanted to ask is it MORE difficult to WRITE POSITIVE images then negative images especially when it pertains to Black characters?​

Friends DID work with an all black cast..

and it predated friends a well

I already posted a thread about this type of thing

TV shows the black community likes BUT if it were an all black cast they'd hate it

some have touched on a few of the issues which is

1. whites and other minorities do NOT care to see too many black faces on the screen in general.

2. Blacks hold black projects to a different standard than white ones.

3. People only do what is profitable and so far only chick driven stories or comedies/sitcoms are the most reliably profitable projects anyone is willing to back.

 

[Better]

I would like to see a black Sci-Fi movie...

...but please do it before Tyler Perry tires of doing the same shit and tries something different.

I don't think I could deal with seeing neck cranking black women driving spaceships, and churches on the damn moon.

 

[godofwine]

It's not difficult to write a black show. It's difficult for a room of white writers to write black show.

Impossible for them to do it.

To write real. Relatable black characters.

It's insulting.

There would never be a show with a white cast filled with black writers, not ever. So how is it OK for a room full of white writers to be in charge of developing and writing black characters on a show?

I came in here to say this very thing. I mean exactly how you guys wrote it. it's Hollywood shuffle all over again. white writers writing how black people act in their eyes, or maybe even intentionally trying to degrade them. It is insulting.

 

[tallblacknyc]

Will you support it is the question. that's the difference. support, sponsorship will they respect the new avenues. I'm trying the different avenues on my own right now.

how many skits, segments, short films have been posted on the internet that people have watched or talked about.. look at honest trailers a 4 min segment about clowning movies..they get millions of views per segment..i've watched all of them..if something is good people will watch..so now that people kno this what's stopping them..hell kermit the frog sipping on ice tea blowing people spots up is a huge internet hit..once again what's stopping them.. a man does voice overs for tmnt scenes and get's mad views once again what's stopping people..2015 no more excuses

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

how many skits, segments, short films have been posted on the internet that people have watched or talked about.. look at honest trailers a 4 min segment about clowning movies..they get millions of views per segment..i've watched all of them..if something is good people will watch..so now that people kno this what's stopping them..hell kermit the frog sipping on ice tea blowing people spots up is a huge internet hit..once again what's stopping them.. a man does voice overs for tmnt scenes and get's mad views once again what's stopping people..2015 no more excuses

i didn't say anything about being stopped. i said support.

 

[godofwine]

the question is,

why cant we go hard with all the new venues we have

to put our work out?

fuck the networks, we just need to support each other

this is true, there are enough out of work black actors and writers for them to do it. We just have to try it, and support it.

this man gets it.. it's 2015 and nigs still looking for jews to cosign shit..fuck that we got youtube, facebook, twitter, wssh, and various other outlets where nigs ain't gotta kiss some station ass

we live in a world where we are mimicked in every way. What we must do is manipulate that fact. We determine what cool in the world, and they follow like lemmings. we create a show or shows, show them on YouTube an they get views. the more views you have you actually start making money. The question is, the initial down payment for the equipment and something to pay the staff and crew and actors.I am suffering through this right now. I've got a good business idea, but getting the loan to get the business started is proving to be difficult. We've got to see our way past that point

Will you support it is the question. that's the difference. support, sponsorship will they respect the new avenues. I'm trying the different avenues on my own right now.

 

[tallblacknyc]

i didn't say anything about being stopped. i said support.

once again all those i mention get support by viewership.. whoever has an idea can go head and take the next step and execute it..if people find it entertaining they will watch

 

[gameboy]

a "Black show" is exactly the mind frame we need to get out of,, the focus should be writing good scripts & storylines that happen to have Black actors in them,,

 

[geechiedan]

how many skits, segments, short films have been posted on the internet that people have watched or talked about.. look at honest trailers a 4 min segment about clowning movies..they get millions of views per segment..i've watched all of them..if something is good people will watch..so now that people kno this what's stopping them..hell kermit the frog sipping on ice tea blowing people spots up is a huge internet hit..once again what's stopping them.. a man does voice overs for tmnt scenes and get's mad views once again what's stopping people..2015 no more excuses

nigga please

I made a thread about Everything Wrong With New Jack City CLEARLY in the vain of those cinema sins/honest trailer vids and YOU trolled the shit out of it and argued on every observation..like you were personally insulted anyone would poke fun at a fuckin movie. Now youre saying

look at honest trailers a 4 min segment about clowning movies..they get millions of views per segment..i've watched all of them..

so the white man does it and youre all ..a black man does it and youre all this is what I mean by blacks hold blacks to different standards..shit you could have JOINED in the observations yourself and posted some funny shit but you choose to troll and now your talking about no excuses??

 

[WhenTheGoingGetsTtuff]

Nope.

This was Sisko's wife:

This was Sisko's girlfriend / second wife:

Ok cool. I honestly don't remember them. But i wasn't an AVID watcher of the show. I didn't like the spacestation aspect of it. But cool. I'll concede and go with him then. Any other black people on the show? And i think as well. Were they ever acknowledged as black?

 

[daman200]

What about Will smith with After Earth that was Sci-Fi with a main black guy and it failed. Didnt he do Irobot too. And hancock. Will got the black sci-fi covered

 

[tallblacknyc]

here's a small plug there's this thing called ovnio.tv ..it's an online tv station that is on in various countries around the world.. it has several hundred thousand followers.. u can rent a monthly slot and put on a show on 1 of the various channels and it will play ur show at that time slot everyday or u can pay more money and have ur own channel and have 24hr of nonstop shows/vids.. here's the kicker u can sell products on the show or do various commercial segments etc.. this comes on worldwide..one of my boys is kinda link to this channel and gave me the heads up about it.. i didn't do all my research on it yet but ya can.. juss another avenue for media outlet

 

[tallblacknyc]

nigga please

I made a thread about Everything Wrong With New Jack City CLEARLY in the vain of those cinema sins/honest trailer vids and YOU trolled the shit out of it and argued on every observation..like you were personally insulted anyone would poke fun at a fuckin movie. Now youre saying

look at honest trailers a 4 min segment about clowning movies..they get millions of views per segment..i've watched all of them..

so the white man does it and youre all ..a black man does it and youre all this is what I mean by blacks hold blacks to different standards..shit you could have JOINED in the observations yourself and posted some funny shit but you choose to troll and now your talking about no excuses??

the diff btw u and them is they're actually funny

ur comparing shitty tasting food to great tasting food..ur's is shit

that's what some people fail to understand juss because u create something dosen't mean it's good..juss because ur black dosen't mean i'm gonna support a shitty product.. i'm a consumer that wants a good product.. u see in my bizz i make sure i provide a great product to my consumers..they always support me cause i go to hell and back to make sure they are entertained and satisfy..work on pleasing the consumer and they will support u a 100 percent.. the reason why my bizzness always progress and expands..if my customers ain't happy i don't feel i did my job

 

[WhenTheGoingGetsTtuff]

nigga please

I made a thread about Everything Wrong With New Jack City CLEARLY in the vain of those cinema sins/honest trailer vids and YOU trolled the shit out of it and argued on every observation..like you were personally insulted anyone would poke fun at a fuckin movie. Now youre saying

look at honest trailers a 4 min segment about clowning movies..they get millions of views per segment..i've watched all of them..

so the white man does it and youre all ..a black man does it and youre all this is what I mean by blacks hold blacks to different standards..shit you could have JOINED in the observations yourself and posted some funny shit but you choose to troll and now your talking about no excuses??

He was supporting it. He gave it views. On youtube if you look at those movie trailers? You'll see people arguing there as well. Each time they viewed..is support.

You're not supposed to do stuff for people SOLELY to agree with you.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

a "Black show" is exactly the mind frame we need to get out of,, the focus should be writing good scripts & storylines that happen to have Black actors in them,,

No when we say black we don't mean it has to be anything other than a cast full of black people.. at least that's what i think. i don't limit it to any type of show including any type of things. just black people writing for and about starring black people.