Who Thinks the Stimulus Will Work?
- Thread starter Lamarr
- Start date
..and now the rest of the story:
source: Media Matters
Conservatives cherry-pick 1930s unemployment figures in continued assault on New Deal
December 03, 2008 4:05 pm ET
SUMMARY: Columnists Mona Charen and George Will continued a trend among conservative media of responding to comparisons between the current economic situation and that of the 1930s and between Barack Obama and FDR by attacking the New Deal. In separate columns, both Charen and Will cherry-picked unemployment figures to assert that the New Deal did not reduce unemployment. But historians and progressive economists have noted that unemployment fell every year of the New Deal except during the 1937-38 recession; further, Nobel-laureate Paul Krugman has said it was a reversal of New Deal policies, not a continuance of them, that contributed to rising unemployment in 1937 and 1938.
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Washington Post columnist George Will and syndicated columnist Mona Charen continued a trend among members of the conservative media of responding to media comparisons between the current economic situation and that of the 1930s and between President-elect Barack Obama and Franklin Delano Roosevelt by attacking the New Deal. In recent columns, both Will and Charen cherry-picked certain unemployment figures to assert that the New Deal failed to reduce unemployment. In doing so, they ignored both the downward trend in unemployment during the New Deal and ignored statistics on the increased numbers of jobs created in the government by the New Deal itself -- the latter omission is one that historians and progressive economists have said portrays New Deal unemployment in the "worst possible light." Indeed, both Will and Charen cited former Wall Street Journal writer Amity Shlaes' 2007 book The Forgotten Man: A New History of the Great Depression in advancing their attacks, but in a November 29 Wall Street Journal column, Shlaes acknowledged using data that ignored "emergency" public employment.
In his November 30 column, Will asserted, "The assumption is that the New Deal vanquished the Depression. Intelligent, informed people differ about why the Depression lasted so long. But people whose recipe for recovery today is another New Deal should remember that America's biggest industrial collapse occurred in 1937, eight years after the 1929 stock market crash and nearly five years into the New Deal. In 1939, after a decade of frantic federal spending -- President Herbert Hoover increased it more than 50 percent between 1929 and the inauguration of Franklin Roosevelt -- unemployment was 17.2 percent."
Similarly, in her November 28 column, Charen asserted, "You know the fairy tale. You were probably taught it in school. During the 1920s, America practiced laissez-faire economics. The 1920s were seen, as historian Amity Shlaes put it, as a period of 'false growth and low morals.' " Charen later claimed that "the New Deal's chief object was never achieved -- it did not solve the nation's unemployment problem. The CATO Institute's Jim Powell points out in FDR's Folly, 'From 1934 to 1940, the median annual unemployment rate was 17.2. At no point during the 1930s did unemployment go below 14 percent. ... Living standards remained depressed until after the war.' "
Will and Charen both cited certain unemployment figures during the 1930s but ignored the overall downward trajectory of unemployment rates throughout the New Deal. In a July 5, 2007, Slate article, University of California-Davis history professor Eric Rauchway noted: "Except in the 1937-38 recession, unemployment fell every year of the New Deal. Also, real GDP grew at an annual rate of around 9 percent during Roosevelt's first term and, after the 1937-38 dip, around 11 percent." Further, New York Times columnist and Nobel laureate Paul Krugman wrote that it was a reversal of New Deal policies that contributed to rising unemployment during the 1937-38 recession. In a November 10 Times column, Krugman wrote: "After winning a smashing election victory in 1936, the Roosevelt administration cut spending and raised taxes, precipitating an economic relapse that drove the unemployment rate back into double digits and led to a major defeat in the 1938 midterm elections."
Moreover, Will claimed, "In 1939 ... unemployment was 17.2 percent," and Charen repeated Powell's claim that "[f]rom 1934 to 1940, the median annual unemployment rate was 17.2 percent," but they appear to be relying on unemployment data that ignores government-relief employment created by New Deal programs. Indeed, Shlaes acknowledged that her figures excluded "make-work jobs," instead relying on data compiled for the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) by economist Stanley Lebergott. In a November 29 Wall Street Journal column, she wrote, "To be sure, Michael Darby of UCLA has argued that make-work jobs should be counted. Even so, his chart shows that from 1931 to 1940, New Deal joblessness ranges as high as 16% (1934) but never gets below 9 percent" [emphasis in original].
After World War II, BLS ceased counting those in work-relief programs as unemployed, as noted by economist Gene Smiley in a 1983 Journal of Economic History article:
Apparently the purpose of the estimates of the number of unemployed was to estimate how many private-sector jobs would have to be created to reemploy all those who were unemployed as well as those who were employed on federal government work-relief programs. These data were used by Lebergott in constructing his unemployment rate estimates for the 1930s. Since World War II the BLS does not count as unemployed those employed in any type of government relief programs, so the Lebergott rates are not consistent with those reported since the 1930s.
As Media Matters for America documented, University of Texas professor James Galbraith criticized the methodology Shlaes used in her book. On November 18, at a Campaign for America's Future conference, Galbraith stated that "the underlying numbers, which Shlaes uses ... do not count the people who actually worked on the New Deal as employed. They count them as unemployed. Why did they do that? Because in retrospect, to give -- to put a charitable construction on it, they wanted to assess the condition of the private economy." Further, Rauchway noted in an October 10 blog post that "if you don't count these people who held jobs as unemployed, you get a different picture of unemployment in the 1930s."
As Media Matters for America has noted, in recent weeks, Will has repeatedly attacked the New Deal. During the November 23 edition of ABC's This Week, Will asked, "Before we go into a new New Deal, can we just acknowledge that the first New Deal didn't work?" He added: "That is, the biggest collapse in industrial production in history occurred in 1937, eight years after the stock market collapse of 1929, five years into the New Deal."
The comments echoed remarks Will made the week before on This Week when he asserted that "one of the ways we turned a depression into the Great Depression that didn't end until the Japanese fleet appeared off Hawaii was that there were no rules, and investors went on strike, because the government was completely improvising." He added: "Net investment was negative through almost all of the '30s because, again, people did not know the environment in which they were operating because the government had the fidgets and would not let rules and markets work." Krugman was also a panelist on the show. He responded:
KRUGMAN: No, the negative net investment was because, you know, when you have 20 percent unemployment and all the factories are standing idle, who wants to build a new one? You don't need to invoke the government to explain that. No, what actually happened was, you know, there was an -- there was a collapse of the financial system, which was not restored for a long time. There was a persistent deep slump in consumer demand and, therefore, no investment demand, and so you were stuck in this trap.
Roosevelt got the economy moving somewhat. By 1937, things were a lot better than they were in 1933. Then he was persuaded to balance the budget, or try to, and he raised taxes and cut spending and the economy went back down again. And it took an enormous public works program known as World War II to bring the economy out of the Depression.
From Charen's November 28 syndicated column:Roosevelt got the economy moving somewhat. By 1937, things were a lot better than they were in 1933. Then he was persuaded to balance the budget, or try to, and he raised taxes and cut spending and the economy went back down again. And it took an enormous public works program known as World War II to bring the economy out of the Depression.
The conventional wisdom has had a rough time of it lately among scholars. You know the fairy tale. You were probably taught it in school. During the 1920s, America practiced laissez-faire economics. The 1920s were seen, as historian Amity Shlaes put it, as a period of "false growth and low morals." Greedy businessmen got out of control and created a market crash in 1929. President Hoover, obedient to Republican ideas concerning noninterference in the market, did nothing. The economy spiraled into a depression. Roosevelt was elected in 1932, banished fear, inaugurated the New Deal, and put America back to work.
A series of recent books has demolished the myth. Some of Roosevelt's reforms were salutary (the Securities and Exchange Commission, reform of the Federal Reserve) but the New Deal's chief object was never achieved -- it did not solve the nation's unemployment problem. The CATO Institute's Jim Powell points out in "FDR's Folly," "From 1934 to 1940, the median annual unemployment rate was 17.2. At no point during the 1930s did unemployment go below 14 percent. ... Living standards remained depressed until after the war."
From Will's November 30 Washington Post column:A series of recent books has demolished the myth. Some of Roosevelt's reforms were salutary (the Securities and Exchange Commission, reform of the Federal Reserve) but the New Deal's chief object was never achieved -- it did not solve the nation's unemployment problem. The CATO Institute's Jim Powell points out in "FDR's Folly," "From 1934 to 1940, the median annual unemployment rate was 17.2. At no point during the 1930s did unemployment go below 14 percent. ... Living standards remained depressed until after the war."
The assumption is that the New Deal vanquished the Depression. Intelligent, informed people differ about why the Depression lasted so long. But people whose recipe for recovery today is another New Deal should remember that America's biggest industrial collapse occurred in 1937, eight years after the 1929 stock market crash and nearly five years into the New Deal. In 1939, after a decade of frantic federal spending -- President Herbert Hoover increased it more than 50 percent between 1929 and the inauguration of Franklin Roosevelt -- unemployment was 17.2 percent.
"I say after eight years of this administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started," lamented Henry Morgenthau, FDR's Treasury secretary. Unemployment declined when America began selling materials to nations engaged in a war America would soon join.
"I say after eight years of this administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started," lamented Henry Morgenthau, FDR's Treasury secretary. Unemployment declined when America began selling materials to nations engaged in a war America would soon join.
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The Ruling Elite Called
I just got off the horn with the Ruling Elite. We had an emergency conference call and to tell you the truth, they ain’t happy. You little people are not responding the way you are supposed to. A significant portion of you are not getting more optimistic because they tell you to. Instead of just reading the headline on Bloomberg that durable goods orders skyrocketed in June, you actually read the details that said durable goods orders plunged. It is getting difficult for the ruling elite to keep the masses sedated and dumbed down. These damn bloggers, with their facts and critical thinking, are throwing a wrench into the gears. Obama and his crack team are working round the clock to lock down the internet, but it will take time. Not that they are totally dissatisfied. They’ve been able to renovate their penthouses and purchase new mansions in the Hamptons with the billions in bonuses you supplied through TARP. The $1.2 trillion supplied by your children and grandchildren to buy up toxic mortgages off their balances sheets was a godsend. They will never call you suckers, to your face.
Their spirits were buoyed by the 2,600 pages DONK (Dodd/Frank) financial reform bill. So many loopholes, so little time. Obama and his crack team of Obamanistas in the White House, supported by their mouthpieces in the mainstream media, have been able to easily manipulate the non-thinking masses into believing this bill would have stopped the last financial crash and will stop the next one. The Ministry of Truth has been working overtime utilizing Federal Reserve paid shill economists like Alan Blinder and Mark Zandi to perpetuate the myth that the actions taken in the last 18 months have averted a Depression, saved 8 million jobs, created a long-lasting recovery, wiped out Swine Flu, and earned Paul Krugman a nobel prize in fiction.
This is where we have a problem. The worshippers of Keynes, that rule the country, are pissed off at you. Don’t you realize that government spending of your money, borrowed from the Chinese, with the bill passed to your grandchildren, was supposed to reinvigorate your animal spirits. They handed you other people’s money to buy cars and homes and what do you do? You stop buying cars and homes as soon as they stop paying you to buy cars and homes. You ungrateful bastards. Bennie has been hugely successful at ruining the retirements of millions of grandmothers by paying them .20% on their money market accounts while forcing mortgage rates for 30 years down to 4.5%. And still you don’t buy houses. Timmy has instructed Fannie Mae to make home loans to anyone with a pulse who can make an X on a piece of paper. No money down, no proof of income, no assets. Just like the good old days. Still you don’t buy houses. What is wrong with you?
The criminal banking elite have more than bent over backwards to get this economy humming. They have patiently stood by while you haven’t made your mortgage payments for two years while still residing in the house. They’ve pretended to go along with the brilliant HAMP (Home Affordable Modification Program) plan, masterminded by the rocket scientists in the White House. Just because virtually no one has been able to qualify for the plan and the redefault rate is 75%, doesn’t mean it hasn’t worked wonders for the economy. The awesome part of not making people pay their mortgages is that they were able to make payments on their credit cards. That allowed the mega elite banks to pretend that consumers are flush and relieve their loan loss reserves while not writing off the bad mortgages and reporting billions in profits for the 2nd Quarter. It is good to be the ruling elite.
The ruling elite are letting you slide on your mortgages and you have the gall to withdraw $20 billion from U.S. equity funds and not buy into this fake stock rally. Don’t you realize that when the stock market goes up, the economy follows? Everyone knows this. But, instead you sit on the sidelines and refuse to invest in the stock market. The super computers of the mega-banks are getting tired of trading with each other and single-handedly making the stock market appear safe. Just because the ruling elite have vaporized $10 trillion of your net worth in the last two years, you hold a grudge? Remember the mantra “Stocks For the Long Run” that the ruling elite burned into your brains through CNBC and the rest of the shillstream media? Why are you so suspicious of our advice. Ignore the fact that the S&P 500 today is at the exact level it reached on March 24, 1998. They meant the really really long term.
Here is the message from the ruling elite to you ignorant masses: Debt got us into this mess and it sure as hell is going to get us out. They have convinced the mainstream media that the reason the economy is sputtering is because the average Joe is not doing their part. This crazy concept of saving for a rainy day seems to be catching on. This is very dangerous. Savings could lead to investment and long-term stability. The ruling elite will have none of that foolishness. The mainstream media is telling you that this new found austerity will push us back into recession. The talking heads continue to pound away that you have reduced your spending too much, when anyone with a calculator and half a brain (Krugman doesn’t make the cut) can determine that the decrease in consumer debt outstanding is completely the result of write-offs by the mega elite banks. Consumers are living off their credit cards at this point.
The military industrial complex continues to do the heavy lifting for this economy. If they weren’t blowing up bridges, power plants and orphanages in foreign countries and then rebuilding them at ten times the expected cost, how would they possibly spend $895 billion per year. It ain’t easy to waste that kind of money annually. Whenever some crazy dude like Ron Paul questions the need to spend as much as the rest of the world combined on the military, some potential terrorists are captured in the nick of time and the threat level is raised to Orange (thanks Tom Ridge). The “professional” journalists on the major networks then do their part in this farce by spreading fear among the general population. Rinse and repeat.
So, we now find ourselves at the edge of the abyss again. The ruling elite have a great plan. It involves more debt, more stimulus, more printing, more accounting fraud, more pain for the masses, and of course more bonuses for Wall Street. If you, the little people, will just follow this 10 step plan, the ruling elite will be just fine:
1. Stocks are undervalued according to the same “experts” who told you they were undervalued in October 2007. Take out a loan and buy mega-banks stocks, commercial real estate developers, and bankrupt car companies.
2. General Motors, in a brilliant strategic coup, has bought “subprime” auto loan company Americredit. What else does a government/union owned car company need? The fact that GMAC has lost $10 billion of taxpayer funds in the last year shouldn’t worry you about your investment in GM. If you can’t sell cars to people with no income, no job and no prospects for repaying the seven year 0% loan, who can you sell a car to. When the government pays Goldman Sachs millions to convince you to buy the stock of GM in its Fall IPO, ask no questions and just buy buy buy.
3. Ignore the fact that Citicorp, Bank of America, and Wells Fargo would be declared insolvent if the FASB had not caved into threats from the Federal Reserve and Treasury. Just buy their stocks. Trust Wall Street.
4. Enough austerity already. You haven’t bought a new HDTV in six months. It’s like you’ve been living in a 3rd world country. If you have any equity left in your house, borrow against it and buy something big and glitzy. Make sure you show it off to your shallowest neighbors. They will go out and buy something bigger and glitzier on credit. Before you know it we have a recovery. Keynesianism 101.
5. Stop frequenting financial blogs like Naked Capitalism, Credit Writedowns, Dollar Collapse, Market Oracle, 321Gold, Jesse’s Cafe Americain, Of Two Minds, Zero Hedge, Mike Shedlock, or Barry Ritholtz. These sites will just shower you with facts, analysis and truth. Watch CNBC, Fox, MSNBC and the other corporate media to get the ruling elite approved view of the world.
6. If you are currently renting or living in your mother’s basement, have no job, no savings and no prospects, Fannie Mae wants to put you in your very own house. Mortgage payments are optional. The 50% of Americans that pay taxes will gladly fund your new abode.
7. If you are approaching the 99th week of unemployment, have no fear. The ruling elite will use the MSM to run hundreds of sob stories about only two years on the dole being immoral and cruel. The White House will present a study from “impartial” economists that proves that extending unemployment benefits to 156 weeks will create or save 3 million jobs.
8. The stress of this recession has been too much. You need to whip out that credit card and book a trip to Disney World or Dollywood. Worry about funding that 401k sometime in the future.
9. Unquestioningly accept the fact that Iran is an imminent threat to your safety and liberty. Support the obliteration of this evil nation based upon information provided by the CIA (WMD slamdunk) and the Israelis.
10. Lastly, call your Congressman and tell them to extend the tax cuts for the rich. As you have probably concluded, the ruling elite are rich. They don’t like paying taxes. That is why they employ thousand of tax lawyers. Since the expiration of the Bush tax cuts will hurt the ruling elite the most, a full court press of disinformation is in order.
The ruling elite expect you to comply without question. Have they ever led you astray before?
I just got off the horn with the Ruling Elite. We had an emergency conference call and to tell you the truth, they ain’t happy. You little people are not responding the way you are supposed to. A significant portion of you are not getting more optimistic because they tell you to. Instead of just reading the headline on Bloomberg that durable goods orders skyrocketed in June, you actually read the details that said durable goods orders plunged. It is getting difficult for the ruling elite to keep the masses sedated and dumbed down. These damn bloggers, with their facts and critical thinking, are throwing a wrench into the gears. Obama and his crack team are working round the clock to lock down the internet, but it will take time. Not that they are totally dissatisfied. They’ve been able to renovate their penthouses and purchase new mansions in the Hamptons with the billions in bonuses you supplied through TARP. The $1.2 trillion supplied by your children and grandchildren to buy up toxic mortgages off their balances sheets was a godsend. They will never call you suckers, to your face.
Their spirits were buoyed by the 2,600 pages DONK (Dodd/Frank) financial reform bill. So many loopholes, so little time. Obama and his crack team of Obamanistas in the White House, supported by their mouthpieces in the mainstream media, have been able to easily manipulate the non-thinking masses into believing this bill would have stopped the last financial crash and will stop the next one. The Ministry of Truth has been working overtime utilizing Federal Reserve paid shill economists like Alan Blinder and Mark Zandi to perpetuate the myth that the actions taken in the last 18 months have averted a Depression, saved 8 million jobs, created a long-lasting recovery, wiped out Swine Flu, and earned Paul Krugman a nobel prize in fiction.
This is where we have a problem. The worshippers of Keynes, that rule the country, are pissed off at you. Don’t you realize that government spending of your money, borrowed from the Chinese, with the bill passed to your grandchildren, was supposed to reinvigorate your animal spirits. They handed you other people’s money to buy cars and homes and what do you do? You stop buying cars and homes as soon as they stop paying you to buy cars and homes. You ungrateful bastards. Bennie has been hugely successful at ruining the retirements of millions of grandmothers by paying them .20% on their money market accounts while forcing mortgage rates for 30 years down to 4.5%. And still you don’t buy houses. Timmy has instructed Fannie Mae to make home loans to anyone with a pulse who can make an X on a piece of paper. No money down, no proof of income, no assets. Just like the good old days. Still you don’t buy houses. What is wrong with you?
The criminal banking elite have more than bent over backwards to get this economy humming. They have patiently stood by while you haven’t made your mortgage payments for two years while still residing in the house. They’ve pretended to go along with the brilliant HAMP (Home Affordable Modification Program) plan, masterminded by the rocket scientists in the White House. Just because virtually no one has been able to qualify for the plan and the redefault rate is 75%, doesn’t mean it hasn’t worked wonders for the economy. The awesome part of not making people pay their mortgages is that they were able to make payments on their credit cards. That allowed the mega elite banks to pretend that consumers are flush and relieve their loan loss reserves while not writing off the bad mortgages and reporting billions in profits for the 2nd Quarter. It is good to be the ruling elite.
The ruling elite are letting you slide on your mortgages and you have the gall to withdraw $20 billion from U.S. equity funds and not buy into this fake stock rally. Don’t you realize that when the stock market goes up, the economy follows? Everyone knows this. But, instead you sit on the sidelines and refuse to invest in the stock market. The super computers of the mega-banks are getting tired of trading with each other and single-handedly making the stock market appear safe. Just because the ruling elite have vaporized $10 trillion of your net worth in the last two years, you hold a grudge? Remember the mantra “Stocks For the Long Run” that the ruling elite burned into your brains through CNBC and the rest of the shillstream media? Why are you so suspicious of our advice. Ignore the fact that the S&P 500 today is at the exact level it reached on March 24, 1998. They meant the really really long term.
Here is the message from the ruling elite to you ignorant masses: Debt got us into this mess and it sure as hell is going to get us out. They have convinced the mainstream media that the reason the economy is sputtering is because the average Joe is not doing their part. This crazy concept of saving for a rainy day seems to be catching on. This is very dangerous. Savings could lead to investment and long-term stability. The ruling elite will have none of that foolishness. The mainstream media is telling you that this new found austerity will push us back into recession. The talking heads continue to pound away that you have reduced your spending too much, when anyone with a calculator and half a brain (Krugman doesn’t make the cut) can determine that the decrease in consumer debt outstanding is completely the result of write-offs by the mega elite banks. Consumers are living off their credit cards at this point.
The military industrial complex continues to do the heavy lifting for this economy. If they weren’t blowing up bridges, power plants and orphanages in foreign countries and then rebuilding them at ten times the expected cost, how would they possibly spend $895 billion per year. It ain’t easy to waste that kind of money annually. Whenever some crazy dude like Ron Paul questions the need to spend as much as the rest of the world combined on the military, some potential terrorists are captured in the nick of time and the threat level is raised to Orange (thanks Tom Ridge). The “professional” journalists on the major networks then do their part in this farce by spreading fear among the general population. Rinse and repeat.
So, we now find ourselves at the edge of the abyss again. The ruling elite have a great plan. It involves more debt, more stimulus, more printing, more accounting fraud, more pain for the masses, and of course more bonuses for Wall Street. If you, the little people, will just follow this 10 step plan, the ruling elite will be just fine:
1. Stocks are undervalued according to the same “experts” who told you they were undervalued in October 2007. Take out a loan and buy mega-banks stocks, commercial real estate developers, and bankrupt car companies.
2. General Motors, in a brilliant strategic coup, has bought “subprime” auto loan company Americredit. What else does a government/union owned car company need? The fact that GMAC has lost $10 billion of taxpayer funds in the last year shouldn’t worry you about your investment in GM. If you can’t sell cars to people with no income, no job and no prospects for repaying the seven year 0% loan, who can you sell a car to. When the government pays Goldman Sachs millions to convince you to buy the stock of GM in its Fall IPO, ask no questions and just buy buy buy.
3. Ignore the fact that Citicorp, Bank of America, and Wells Fargo would be declared insolvent if the FASB had not caved into threats from the Federal Reserve and Treasury. Just buy their stocks. Trust Wall Street.
4. Enough austerity already. You haven’t bought a new HDTV in six months. It’s like you’ve been living in a 3rd world country. If you have any equity left in your house, borrow against it and buy something big and glitzy. Make sure you show it off to your shallowest neighbors. They will go out and buy something bigger and glitzier on credit. Before you know it we have a recovery. Keynesianism 101.
5. Stop frequenting financial blogs like Naked Capitalism, Credit Writedowns, Dollar Collapse, Market Oracle, 321Gold, Jesse’s Cafe Americain, Of Two Minds, Zero Hedge, Mike Shedlock, or Barry Ritholtz. These sites will just shower you with facts, analysis and truth. Watch CNBC, Fox, MSNBC and the other corporate media to get the ruling elite approved view of the world.
6. If you are currently renting or living in your mother’s basement, have no job, no savings and no prospects, Fannie Mae wants to put you in your very own house. Mortgage payments are optional. The 50% of Americans that pay taxes will gladly fund your new abode.
7. If you are approaching the 99th week of unemployment, have no fear. The ruling elite will use the MSM to run hundreds of sob stories about only two years on the dole being immoral and cruel. The White House will present a study from “impartial” economists that proves that extending unemployment benefits to 156 weeks will create or save 3 million jobs.
8. The stress of this recession has been too much. You need to whip out that credit card and book a trip to Disney World or Dollywood. Worry about funding that 401k sometime in the future.
9. Unquestioningly accept the fact that Iran is an imminent threat to your safety and liberty. Support the obliteration of this evil nation based upon information provided by the CIA (WMD slamdunk) and the Israelis.
10. Lastly, call your Congressman and tell them to extend the tax cuts for the rich. As you have probably concluded, the ruling elite are rich. They don’t like paying taxes. That is why they employ thousand of tax lawyers. Since the expiration of the Bush tax cuts will hurt the ruling elite the most, a full court press of disinformation is in order.
The ruling elite expect you to comply without question. Have they ever led you astray before?
It depends. You can find info to say it won't work or it will. Depends on what party you belong too.
Na, Numbers don't lie bruh, even the Fed numbers!
The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009, commonly referred to as the Stimulus or The Recovery Act, is an economic stimulus package enacted in February 2009. The Act followed other economic recovery legislation passed in the final year of the Bush presidency including the Economic Stimulus Act of 2008 and the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008 which created the Troubled Assets Relief Program (TARP).
The stimulus was intended to create jobs and promote investment and consumer spending during the recession. The rationale for the stimulus comes out of the Keynesian economic tradition that argues that government spending should be used to cover the output gap created by the drop in consumer spending during a recession.
The first chart shown below is taken from the Federal Reserves website and shows the U.S. Government debt for the period when these massive stimulus packages began until the end of the first quarter 2010 (the latest data available to be graphed)
As can be seen, the national debt has skyrocketed by trillions of dollars. Let's take a look at the results in the unemployment graph shown below for the same time period.
The graphs speak for themselves. It is clear that the trillions of dollars of stimulus have done nothing to improve the employment picture as the unemployment rate has climbed from 5% to 9.5%. All that we have to show for ourselves is trillions more in debt. The Keynesian big government approach to dealing with recessions is clearly fatally flawed.
A free market approach would be to understand that the government can only make things worse. Malinvestments must be purged from the system. Companies that made bad bets must be allowed to fail. Companies that lose money must be allowed to go bankrupt. The capital and resources that were poorly managed must be freed up so that entrepreneurs who have the wherewithal to manage them profitably can create the goods and services that will result in a robust self sustaining economy.
The stimulus was intended to create jobs and promote investment and consumer spending during the recession. The rationale for the stimulus comes out of the Keynesian economic tradition that argues that government spending should be used to cover the output gap created by the drop in consumer spending during a recession.
The first chart shown below is taken from the Federal Reserves website and shows the U.S. Government debt for the period when these massive stimulus packages began until the end of the first quarter 2010 (the latest data available to be graphed)
As can be seen, the national debt has skyrocketed by trillions of dollars. Let's take a look at the results in the unemployment graph shown below for the same time period.
The graphs speak for themselves. It is clear that the trillions of dollars of stimulus have done nothing to improve the employment picture as the unemployment rate has climbed from 5% to 9.5%. All that we have to show for ourselves is trillions more in debt. The Keynesian big government approach to dealing with recessions is clearly fatally flawed.
A free market approach would be to understand that the government can only make things worse. Malinvestments must be purged from the system. Companies that made bad bets must be allowed to fail. Companies that lose money must be allowed to go bankrupt. The capital and resources that were poorly managed must be freed up so that entrepreneurs who have the wherewithal to manage them profitably can create the goods and services that will result in a robust self sustaining economy.
The first chart shown below is taken from the Federal Reserves website and shows the U.S. Government debt for the period when these massive stimulus packages began until the end of the first quarter 2010 (the latest data available to be graphed)
As can be seen, the national debt has skyrocketed by trillions of dollars. Let's take a look at the results in the unemployment graph shown below for the same time period.
The graphs speak for themselves. It is clear that the trillions of dollars of stimulus have done nothing to improve the employment picture as the unemployment rate has climbed from 5% to 9.5%. All that we have to show for ourselves is trillions more in debt. The Keynesian big government approach to dealing with recessions is clearly fatally flawed.
We've had this debate before and while it's always fun, let me stop you from setting yourself up for failure with these graphs and the text that go along.
Going by your graph, the unemployment rate took a strong spike at the end of 2008 going into 2009 while the Recovery Act wasn't passed until 2009. But the text suggests a causation between the stimulus and the surge in unemployment. That's not what happened at all and it may not be what you yourself are suggesting but that's the way the text reads and it gives a "Who are you going to believe? Me or your lying eyes" impression. Then it looks, going by the graph again, that the unemployment rate is slowly dropping with a flatlining at the end. That's not great but it is better.
Just saying, the two things aren't matching up.
One thing you must admit, we got a hell of a lot more debt than we did in March 2008! Point 2) We got a hell of a lot more unemployment since March 2008. W & the democratic Congress passed the Economic stimulus of 2008, Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008, and Obama passed The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009. All with the same results
Whether it was an economic stimulus from Bush or Obama, the end product of their Keynesian practices equals more debt and unsustainability. See, if we would've let the greedy b*stards fail, the country wouldn't be in so much debt & after 18-24 months, we'd be well on our way to a sustainable recovery.
I'm not trying to be misleading but "Numbers Don't Lie"
10 Big Retailers Closing Stores
Saks - No. of Stores Closing: 5
French Connection - No. of Stores Closing: 17
A&P - No. of Stores Closing: 25
American Eagle Outfitters - No. of Stores Closing: 28
Winn-Dixie Grocery Stores - No. of Stores Closing: 30
Bebe Stores - No. of Stores Closing: 48
Men's Wearhouse - No. of Stores Closing: 50-60
Charming Shoppes - No. of Stores Closing: 100 to 120
Blockbuster Video - No. of Stores Closing: 500-545
Abercrombie & Fitch - No. of Stores Closing: Up to 110
Saks - No. of Stores Closing: 5
French Connection - No. of Stores Closing: 17
A&P - No. of Stores Closing: 25
American Eagle Outfitters - No. of Stores Closing: 28
Winn-Dixie Grocery Stores - No. of Stores Closing: 30
Bebe Stores - No. of Stores Closing: 48
Men's Wearhouse - No. of Stores Closing: 50-60
Charming Shoppes - No. of Stores Closing: 100 to 120
Blockbuster Video - No. of Stores Closing: 500-545
Abercrombie & Fitch - No. of Stores Closing: Up to 110
Old news buddy.
Companies That Could Go Bankrupt
This type of shit was going way before the Obama administration.
the article I'm quoting is dated 8-20-10
Could you please quote the exact part of that article where it says the Stimulus is responsible for the closings.
Quote only please.
QueEx
I saw that article. this further illustrates the dominance of our economy to service and retail. Manufacturing is the engine which puts money in people's hands to spend.
Quote when the administration claimed this. Was the economy going to hell prior to January 20th, 2008? You just love to make up shit!
You need to look at your first post in this thread.
By the way, the economy is STILL going to hell, as we speak.
What has changed?
The stimulus has worked. That does not say that the economy doesn't not need a total overhaul.
No beef, I hope this dialogue doesn't devolve into emotions and name-calling. First I'd like to know why you say the stimulus has worked.
Secondly, since you say the economy needs a total overhaul, what do you mean? I guess you mean the economic system. What changes would you like to see happen and how would you like to see them accomplished? Peace.
Who Thinks the Stimulus Will Work
The problem for Americas stimulus is that most of it isnt spent yet, in order to get stimulus you need cash out there in the streets quickly, it hasnt happened.
Australias government has come under a lot of fire from their political opponents that their stimulus spending projects were badly handled and that there was some overspending on projects and some mistakes ithe implementation, they totally miss the point that in some ways it is irrelevant if you pay too much for a school hall, it still meets the objectives of keeping people in work and putting cash in the economy. There will always be mistakes in the implementation when you put large scale programs in place quickly but sped was the most important consideration. For Australia it demonstrably worked.
The problem for Americas stimulus is that most of it isnt spent yet, in order to get stimulus you need cash out there in the streets quickly, it hasnt happened.
Australias government has come under a lot of fire from their political opponents that their stimulus spending projects were badly handled and that there was some overspending on projects and some mistakes ithe implementation, they totally miss the point that in some ways it is irrelevant if you pay too much for a school hall, it still meets the objectives of keeping people in work and putting cash in the economy. There will always be mistakes in the implementation when you put large scale programs in place quickly but sped was the most important consideration. For Australia it demonstrably worked.
And people are calling for another stimulus. lol. Government can't do everything.
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Who Thinks the Stimulus Will Work
Will still be thought of anything without disdain in 20 years?
Im deadly curious to see who is the incredibly naive amongst you.
Will still be thought of anything without disdain in 20 years?
Im deadly curious to see who is the incredibly naive amongst you.
http://www.scpr.org/news/2010/09/17/gruel-stimulus/
Los Angeles City Controller Wendy Greuel says she’s “disappointed” in the way the city’s used its federal stimulus money to create jobs.
The city controller said the federal government awarded Los Angeles nearly $600 million in stimulus money. Her audit examined the two departments that have received the biggest chunks of cash.
She found that the Department of Public Work’s received more than $70 million in American Recovery and Reinvestment Act money – but it’s created or retained just 45 jobs. She said that grant was supposed to create 238 jobs.
L.A.’s Department of Transportation has been awarded 40 million federal recovery dollars, and created or retained nine jobs. The number was supposed to be 26.
In the Department of Public Works' case, Greuel faulted the agency’s slow process of awarding contracts and starting construction. While the controller said it did not appear that the utility misspent the money, it needs a process for more transparent and accurate tracking of stimulus funds.
Los Angeles City Controller Wendy Greuel says she’s “disappointed” in the way the city’s used its federal stimulus money to create jobs.
The city controller said the federal government awarded Los Angeles nearly $600 million in stimulus money. Her audit examined the two departments that have received the biggest chunks of cash.
She found that the Department of Public Work’s received more than $70 million in American Recovery and Reinvestment Act money – but it’s created or retained just 45 jobs. She said that grant was supposed to create 238 jobs.
L.A.’s Department of Transportation has been awarded 40 million federal recovery dollars, and created or retained nine jobs. The number was supposed to be 26.
In the Department of Public Works' case, Greuel faulted the agency’s slow process of awarding contracts and starting construction. While the controller said it did not appear that the utility misspent the money, it needs a process for more transparent and accurate tracking of stimulus funds.
Re: Who Thinks the Stimulus Will Work
That's been a big, underreported problem. Many states are hoarding the money instead of spending it to shore up their own budgets or as an emergency fund.
That's been a big, underreported problem. Many states are hoarding the money instead of spending it to shore up their own budgets or as an emergency fund.
the stim kept cali from being even MORE fuked up
That last factcheck is interesting because the August CBO report it's referencing was essentially ignored by all. You would think liberals would tout it and conservatives to try to refute it, but everybody just let it die. The week that it came out has virtually no articles or commentary about it.
Don't know what that means.
It means you're trying to create something from nothing. Wing Nuts, make up their own news.
It worked here in a big way and shows how it would work without politicians standing in the way of it's use to further their own political agendas.
http://finance.yahoo.com/real-estate/article/111059/a-town-saved-by-stimulus
KOKOMO, Ind. -- Kokomo is going back to work.
A year and a half ago the fate of this car town, home to four Chrysler plants and a Delphi facility, was as uncertain as the American auto industry itself.
Now, thanks largely to the federal government, the town's unemployment rate has gone from over 20% to under 14%.
Economists disagree over the real nationwide impact of the massive stimulus jolt orchestrated by President Obama. But here in Kokomo, the Recovery Act and Obama's auto bailout have jolted Kokomo back to life -- keeping big industry from fleeing and attracting newcomers as well.
"We wouldn't be standing here," said Brian Harlow, a 32-year Chrysler veteran who grew up in Kokomo and now is based at the company's headquarters outside Detroit. "It would have been a ghost town."
Chrysler, which had idled 3,500 hourly workers in Kokomo a year and a half ago, recently announced $350 million in new investments that will make the city the hub of North American manufacturing for its next-generation transmissions. All those people have been put back to work, and 700 others have been hired.
Auto parts manufacturer Delphi will use an $89 million stimulus grant to retain 100 manufacturing jobs and make 100 additional hires at a facility building parts for hybrid vehicles.
And a Colorado solar company plans to use $300 million in stimulus funds to hire as many as 900 workers at an old Daimler auto plant south of town that will make products to export to Europe.
Even the downtown looks better. The mayor leveraged $800,000 in stimulus funds to help with a revitalization project that has netted 11 new stores since the start of the year.
For sure, Kokomo still faces big challenges. The fate of a huge manufacturing facility Delphi recently sold to General Motors -- and its 1,200 workers -- is uncertain. And the housing market is in the toilet.
The mood in Kokomo is optimistic, if cautious.
"I wouldn't say it's done a 180, more like a 120," said Cliff Pitcher, an electrician and 20-year veteran at Chrysler who was decidedly more downbeat when CNNMoney last visited Kokomo. "They're trying," he said of city officials. "I have to back them on that."
How They're Getting It Done
From government managers to corporate execs, nearly every leader in Kokomo attributes the turnaround to the federal government's willingness to step in.
"We would not be manufacturing in the United States if it wasn't for the stimulus money," said Lisa Hardwick, Delphi's plant manager, during a tour of the facility.
Delphi just opened a factory -- just outside of town amid fields of corn and soy -- making a component central to 21st century transportation: the brains of a hybrid car.
The product is a circuit board measuring about a square foot in size. The board tells a hybrid car when to switch from electric to gas power, converts the 600-volt battery juice to a more dashboard-friendly 14 volts and regulates other electronic functions within the engine.
Delphi has contracts to supply these boards to Allison Transmission, which makes parts for hybrid buses, as well as General Motors, Ford Motor and China's Coda.
With Coda, the plan is to send the boards to China, put them in electric cars, and then ship the cars back for sale in the United States.
Hardwick said the company chose to expand in Kokomo for many of the same reasons executives from other companies cited: existing operations, generous tax incentives and a skilled workforce.
Back in town at a Chrysler plant, workers are churning out 1,600 transmissions a day. They'll soon be making the company's new 8-speed automatic transmission.
New workers are being hired at $14 an hour instead of the old $28, but that's the case at auto plants across the country and reflects a world where factory work doesn't command the wages it once did.
Back to the Core
Downtown, it's anything but ghostly.
Kokomo's mayor, along with other city officials, used stimulus money to revamp the dying town center and lure shoppers back from the neon strip of chain stores and traffic lights that ring the city's eastern side.
Flowers were added, curbs and sidewalks were expanded. Gone are the traffic lights that used to encourage motorists to speed though intersections in a race to make the next green light. They have been replaced with stop signs that bring traffic to a more pedestrian-friendly pace and allow drivers to look around the new downtown.
"I see a lot of people walking down here now, even at night," said Tashia Johnson-St.Clair, who used small business loans provided by the city to open a candied popcorn store called Sweet Poppins.
Across the street, 26-year-old Blake Kinder is using recycled antique wood and glass to open up an Irish bar in what was once a Chinese restaurant.
Kinder said the city's designation of the downtown as a redevelopment zone allowed him to get a state liquor license, normally valued at over $100,000, for a mere $1,000.
"I'm not a big city guy," said Kinder, who nonetheless has lived in Las Vegas and London. "Kokomo is my comfort zone, and I believe I have something to give back to the town."
Mayor Greg Goodnight, who spent 13 years on the floor at a local steel factory before becoming the plant's union leader, said the downtown's revival is part of a larger plan to grow Kokomo's economy by making it a place where people want to live.
"Good schools, more parks, low-cost government," Goodnight said. "This has to be a place that people want to call home."
Kokomo: What Stimulus Bought
Photos: Steve Hargreaves/CNNMoney.com
Downtown's Rebirth
Kokomo Mayor Greg Goodnight, faced with a recession-decimated city budget, had to make some tough choices. Through attrition and layoffs, he ended up cutting about 10% of the city's staff.
But he didn't skimp on the downtown. Using stimulus money, the town revamped the walkways, added flowers and made all the parking free.
The moves, along with some attractive financing, have spurred the launch of 11 new businesses in Kokomo since the start of 2010.
Photos: Steve Hargreaves/ CNNMoney.com
Old Plant, New Technology
Delphi began building this new factory last January in an old plant that made metal for pins that doctors used to hold together broken bones.
Delphi plans on hiring 100 more non-union employees as production ramps up over the next five years.
While the plant is currently tooled for hybrid boards, a Delphi manager said the state-of-the-art factory could just as easily make any of the world's most sophisticated electronics products.
Photos: Steve Hargreaves/CNNMoney.com
Building the Hybrid's Brain
The raw circuit board on which Delphi builds the 'brains' of a hybrid vehicle. The board tells the car when to switch from electric to gasoline power and controls other electronic functions.
During a tour of the facility, none of Delphi's managers thought the future of transport would be anything but electric. The only question is when the switchover will happen.
Photos: Steve Hargreaves/ CNNMoney.com
Saving 3,500 Chrysler Jobs
Stacks of transmissions stand ready for shipment by truck to assembly plants in Detroit, Toledo and Ontario.
Chrysler's next generation, 8-speed automatic transmission will also be made here, using technology the company got from Daimler during that ill-fated merger.
Seventeen months ago, production at this factory and the three others in Kokomo ground to a halt when Chrysler declared bankruptcy. Without the federal auto bailout, many feel 3,500 workers in Kokomo would have lost their jobs.
Photos: Steve Hargreaves/CNNMoney.com
Thank You, Fiat
Although Chrysler is now owned mostly by the U.S. government and the United Auto Workers union, management decisions are left to minority owner and Fiat boss Sergio Marchionne.
Auto workers in Kokomo gave Fiat high marks for a new management plan that forces employees to become familiar with many different jobs inside the plant instead of specializing in one area.
Although resisted at first, the workers say it will ultimately increase production because anyone can cover for a sick employee.
http://finance.yahoo.com/real-estate/article/111059/a-town-saved-by-stimulus
KOKOMO, Ind. -- Kokomo is going back to work.
A year and a half ago the fate of this car town, home to four Chrysler plants and a Delphi facility, was as uncertain as the American auto industry itself.
Now, thanks largely to the federal government, the town's unemployment rate has gone from over 20% to under 14%.
Economists disagree over the real nationwide impact of the massive stimulus jolt orchestrated by President Obama. But here in Kokomo, the Recovery Act and Obama's auto bailout have jolted Kokomo back to life -- keeping big industry from fleeing and attracting newcomers as well.
"We wouldn't be standing here," said Brian Harlow, a 32-year Chrysler veteran who grew up in Kokomo and now is based at the company's headquarters outside Detroit. "It would have been a ghost town."
Chrysler, which had idled 3,500 hourly workers in Kokomo a year and a half ago, recently announced $350 million in new investments that will make the city the hub of North American manufacturing for its next-generation transmissions. All those people have been put back to work, and 700 others have been hired.
Auto parts manufacturer Delphi will use an $89 million stimulus grant to retain 100 manufacturing jobs and make 100 additional hires at a facility building parts for hybrid vehicles.
And a Colorado solar company plans to use $300 million in stimulus funds to hire as many as 900 workers at an old Daimler auto plant south of town that will make products to export to Europe.
Even the downtown looks better. The mayor leveraged $800,000 in stimulus funds to help with a revitalization project that has netted 11 new stores since the start of the year.
For sure, Kokomo still faces big challenges. The fate of a huge manufacturing facility Delphi recently sold to General Motors -- and its 1,200 workers -- is uncertain. And the housing market is in the toilet.
The mood in Kokomo is optimistic, if cautious.
"I wouldn't say it's done a 180, more like a 120," said Cliff Pitcher, an electrician and 20-year veteran at Chrysler who was decidedly more downbeat when CNNMoney last visited Kokomo. "They're trying," he said of city officials. "I have to back them on that."
How They're Getting It Done
From government managers to corporate execs, nearly every leader in Kokomo attributes the turnaround to the federal government's willingness to step in.
"We would not be manufacturing in the United States if it wasn't for the stimulus money," said Lisa Hardwick, Delphi's plant manager, during a tour of the facility.
Delphi just opened a factory -- just outside of town amid fields of corn and soy -- making a component central to 21st century transportation: the brains of a hybrid car.
The product is a circuit board measuring about a square foot in size. The board tells a hybrid car when to switch from electric to gas power, converts the 600-volt battery juice to a more dashboard-friendly 14 volts and regulates other electronic functions within the engine.
Delphi has contracts to supply these boards to Allison Transmission, which makes parts for hybrid buses, as well as General Motors, Ford Motor and China's Coda.
With Coda, the plan is to send the boards to China, put them in electric cars, and then ship the cars back for sale in the United States.
Hardwick said the company chose to expand in Kokomo for many of the same reasons executives from other companies cited: existing operations, generous tax incentives and a skilled workforce.
Back in town at a Chrysler plant, workers are churning out 1,600 transmissions a day. They'll soon be making the company's new 8-speed automatic transmission.
New workers are being hired at $14 an hour instead of the old $28, but that's the case at auto plants across the country and reflects a world where factory work doesn't command the wages it once did.
Back to the Core
Downtown, it's anything but ghostly.
Kokomo's mayor, along with other city officials, used stimulus money to revamp the dying town center and lure shoppers back from the neon strip of chain stores and traffic lights that ring the city's eastern side.
Flowers were added, curbs and sidewalks were expanded. Gone are the traffic lights that used to encourage motorists to speed though intersections in a race to make the next green light. They have been replaced with stop signs that bring traffic to a more pedestrian-friendly pace and allow drivers to look around the new downtown.
"I see a lot of people walking down here now, even at night," said Tashia Johnson-St.Clair, who used small business loans provided by the city to open a candied popcorn store called Sweet Poppins.
Across the street, 26-year-old Blake Kinder is using recycled antique wood and glass to open up an Irish bar in what was once a Chinese restaurant.
Kinder said the city's designation of the downtown as a redevelopment zone allowed him to get a state liquor license, normally valued at over $100,000, for a mere $1,000.
"I'm not a big city guy," said Kinder, who nonetheless has lived in Las Vegas and London. "Kokomo is my comfort zone, and I believe I have something to give back to the town."
Mayor Greg Goodnight, who spent 13 years on the floor at a local steel factory before becoming the plant's union leader, said the downtown's revival is part of a larger plan to grow Kokomo's economy by making it a place where people want to live.
"Good schools, more parks, low-cost government," Goodnight said. "This has to be a place that people want to call home."
Kokomo: What Stimulus Bought
Photos: Steve Hargreaves/CNNMoney.com
Downtown's Rebirth
Kokomo Mayor Greg Goodnight, faced with a recession-decimated city budget, had to make some tough choices. Through attrition and layoffs, he ended up cutting about 10% of the city's staff.
But he didn't skimp on the downtown. Using stimulus money, the town revamped the walkways, added flowers and made all the parking free.
The moves, along with some attractive financing, have spurred the launch of 11 new businesses in Kokomo since the start of 2010.
Photos: Steve Hargreaves/ CNNMoney.com
Old Plant, New Technology
Delphi began building this new factory last January in an old plant that made metal for pins that doctors used to hold together broken bones.
Delphi plans on hiring 100 more non-union employees as production ramps up over the next five years.
While the plant is currently tooled for hybrid boards, a Delphi manager said the state-of-the-art factory could just as easily make any of the world's most sophisticated electronics products.
Photos: Steve Hargreaves/CNNMoney.com
Building the Hybrid's Brain
The raw circuit board on which Delphi builds the 'brains' of a hybrid vehicle. The board tells the car when to switch from electric to gasoline power and controls other electronic functions.
During a tour of the facility, none of Delphi's managers thought the future of transport would be anything but electric. The only question is when the switchover will happen.
Photos: Steve Hargreaves/ CNNMoney.com
Saving 3,500 Chrysler Jobs
Stacks of transmissions stand ready for shipment by truck to assembly plants in Detroit, Toledo and Ontario.
Chrysler's next generation, 8-speed automatic transmission will also be made here, using technology the company got from Daimler during that ill-fated merger.
Seventeen months ago, production at this factory and the three others in Kokomo ground to a halt when Chrysler declared bankruptcy. Without the federal auto bailout, many feel 3,500 workers in Kokomo would have lost their jobs.
Photos: Steve Hargreaves/CNNMoney.com
Thank You, Fiat
Although Chrysler is now owned mostly by the U.S. government and the United Auto Workers union, management decisions are left to minority owner and Fiat boss Sergio Marchionne.
Auto workers in Kokomo gave Fiat high marks for a new management plan that forces employees to become familiar with many different jobs inside the plant instead of specializing in one area.
Although resisted at first, the workers say it will ultimately increase production because anyone can cover for a sick employee.
And, I understand it may have worked in a big way in a lot of other places had state governments not used a lot of the funds to close huge holes in their budgets. But then again, had they not, some states may have faced massive layoffs, curtailing or cessation of services, and worse.
QueEx
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