Who Caused the Economic Crisis

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Brothers, I need some making sense of the wall street bullshit and the bail out. Can someone help make sense of this in everyday terms and school a brother?

I'm to proud at say I don't understand and ask for help.
 
Re: Seeking Knowledge....Financial Bullshit

Read man. Read. There is enough information posted on this board and
on the internet in general to give you a general idea of whats going on.

Read.


Don't count on someone to give you a fish;
because you can only eat for a day.

Learn to fish, so that you can eat forever.

QueEx
 
Re: Seeking Knowledge....Financial Bullshit

:hmm:

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http://www.huntington.edu/education/lessonplanning/images/spoonfeed_ani.gif


:smh:
 
Re: Seeking Knowledge....Financial Bullshit

Brothers, I need some making sense of the wall street bullshit and the bail out. Can someone help make sense of this in everyday terms and school a brother?

I'm to proud at say I don't understand and ask for help.

I've got to admit, as much information as there is out there, I don't fully understand this bailout either.

At fist, it sounded like the government was going to borrow $700 billion (presumably by selling Treasury notes - Federal government debt - where the biggest buyer would be the Federal Reserve, or it could be China, or whoever).

The money would be used to provide capital for banks which are undercapitalized (each bank has reserve requirements for the loans they make) due to mortgage loan defaults.

Okay, this seems to no longer be the case.

Now, it sounds like Paulson is saying the government will borrow indefinitely, like a revolving credit line, with the greatest loan at any one time of $700 billion. In this scenario, the government could run up debt forever to prop up the financial sector.

Yet...

With the negotiations continuing, they are including credit cards, auto loans, insurance, and any other debt in this $700 billion. Anyone who creates credit, would get to participate, including foreign companies and non-financial enterprises (imagine Sony getting a bailout).

Conceivably, if this bill were to pass as is, the US government would basically control the entire financial sector.

All financial institutions are basically NATIONALIZED!!!!! But, they want to NATIONALIZE the losses, yet let the employees get these outrageous executive payouts. Makes sense, doesn't it?

Run a company into the ground...
have the government rescue you with taxpayer dollars... and,
get paid multiple millions of dollars when you leave.

That means this so-called capitalist, free market system is all a government-backed enterprise funded through taxes and inflation.

This of course leads to the question, since all industries (just about) rely on credit, what else will be nationalized.

Will they nationalize the auto industry?
How about the steel industry?
Or, maybe the aerospace industry?

Where does it end?

If this legislation passes, we are all seriously screwed in this country.

Except this time, a whole bunch of working class white boys are going to feel the pain, too!
 
Re: Seeking Knowledge....Financial Bullshit

Thanks for the update....I've read so much matter on this issue that head hurts.
 
Re: Seeking Knowledge....Financial Bullshit

Man i know what you mean, this shit really is confusing and i have taken a lot of economics. QueEx told you the best, read. There is a wealth of info out there but you just gotta watch out for bullshit.

And Cruise, next to be bailed out is the auto industry (Pelosi was working on a $40 billion loan before the $700 billion came up.) and most def will be the airline industry. The airline industry is done.
 
Re: Seeking Knowledge....Financial Bullshit

<font size="5"><center>
What might happen in an economic meltdown</font size></center>



Miami Herald
By Martha Brannigan
Wednesday, September 24, 2008


Without a government rescue of U.S. financial markets, experts say some worst-case scenarios could ensue:

  • Your employer won't be able to make payroll because the company's bank account has been frozen in a bank failure.

  • Your credit card will be rejected when you try to pay for groceries or fill your gas tank.

  • Your bank may close.

"Continuing failures of financial institutions and frozen credit 'threaten American families' financial well-being, the viability of businesses both small and large, and the very health of our economy," Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson testified Tuesday before the Senate.

And Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke added bluntly that without a rescue plan, the country faces a certain recession and rising unemployment.

For months, the credit markets that provide the lifeblood of the U.S. economic system have been bogged down, initially over fears and uncertainty about soured mortgage loans.

Home mortgages are sliced into a variety of complex packages that have made it difficult for investors to value then now that the real estate market has turned down. Those doubts have dried up the market for trading these securities.

In turn, bankers, stung by bad loans, have tightened lending standards so that it's now hard for the average consumer to get a mortgage, a car loan, or a line of credit to carry out normal financial activities. Similarly, businesses that need to borrow cash to expand operations, buy new equipment or carry on normal operations face tougher hurdles.

With mounting bank failures, banks have gotten increasingly fearful of even lending money to one another overnight — an essential element to providing the financial system with the liquidity needed to do business.

"Based on what Bernanke and Paulson say, there would be more bank failures and an exacerbation of the recent reluctance of banks to lend to one another and to their customers," said Mark J. Flannery, a finance professor at the University of Florida.

The hope of the Bush administration — and at this point it is only a hope — is that the government stepping in as the buyer of last resort for the toxic mortgage securities will stabilize the market.

Once the banks sell off the bad mortgage securities and find ways to rebuild their capital base, they could go forward on steady footing and resume more normal lending.

"No one likes to see government money going to bail out other people, but we have no choice,:" said Ken Thomas, a Miami banking consultant. "With Bear Stearns and Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, we were doing this piecemeal, and we realized the piecemeal approach was not working."

As lawmakers hash out the details of the plan, most experts say something has to be done -- and quickly.

"The financial markets and banking system are based on confidence," said Krishnan Dandapani, a Florida International University finance professor.

"The failure of one institution could lead to a chain reaction. It would be almost like the Great Depression happening all over again.''

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/226/story/53005.html
 
<font size="5"><center>
The Political Nature of the Economic Crisis</font size></center>



Strategic Forecasting, Inc.
By George Friedman
Geopolitical Weekly
September 30, 2008


Classical economists like Adam Smith and David Ricardo referred to their discipline as “political economy.” Smith’s great work, “The Wealth of Nations,” was written by the man who held the chair in moral philosophy at the University of Glasgow. This did not seem odd at the time and is not odd now. Economics is not a freestanding discipline, regardless of how it is regarded today. It is a discipline that can only be understood when linked to politics, since the wealth of a nation rests on both these foundations, and it can best be understood by someone who approaches it from a moral standpoint, since economics makes significant assumptions about both human nature and proper behavior.

The modern penchant to regard economics as a discrete science parallels the belief that economics is a distinct sphere of existence — at its best when it is divorced from political and even moral considerations. Our view has always been that the economy can only be understood and forecast in the context of politics, and that the desire to separate the two derives from a moral teaching that Smith would not embrace. Smith understood that the word “economy” without the adjective “political” did not describe reality. We need to bear Smith in mind when we try to understand the current crisis.

Societies have two sorts of financial crises. The first sort is so large it overwhelms a society’s ability to overcome it, and the society sinks deeper into dysfunction and poverty. In the second sort, the society has the resources to manage the situation — albeit at a collective price. Societies that can manage the crisis have two broad strategies. The first strategy is to allow the market to solve the problem over time. The second strategy is to have the state organize the resources of society to speed up the resolution. The market solution is more efficient over time, producing better outcomes and disciplining financial decision-making in the long run. But the market solution can create massive collateral damage, such as high unemployment, on the way to the superior resolution. The state-organized resolution creates inequities by not sufficiently punishing poor economic decisions, and creates long-term inefficiencies that are costly. But it has the virtue of being quicker and mitigating collateral damage.


<font size="4">Three Views of the Financial Crisis</font size>

There is a first group that argues the current financial crisis already has outstripped available social resources, so that there is no market or state solution. This group asserts that the imbalances created in the financial markets are so vast that the market solution must consist of an extended period of depression. Any attempt by the state to appropriate social resources to solve the financial imbalance not only will be ineffective, it will prolong the crisis even further, although perhaps buying some minor alleviation up front. The thinking goes that the financial crisis has been building for years and the economy can no longer be protected from it, and that therefore an extended period of discipline and austerity — beginning with severe economic dislocations — is inevitable. This is not a majority view, but it is widespread; it opposes governmen t action on the grounds that the government will make a terrible situation worse.

A second group argues that the financial crisis has not outstripped the ability of society — organized by the state — to manage, but that it has outstripped the market’s ability to manage it. The financial markets have been the problem, according to this view, and have created a massive liquidity crisis. The economy — as distinct from the financial markets — is relatively sound, but if the liquidity crisis is left unsolved, it will begin to affect the economy as a whole. Since the financial markets are unable to solve the problem in a time frame that will not dramatically affect the economy, the state must mobilize resources to impose a solution on the financial markets, introducing liquidity as the preface to any further solutions. This group believes, like the first group, that the financial crisis could have profound economic ramifications. But the second group also believes it is possible to contain the consequences. This is the view of th e Bush administration, the congressional leadership, the Federal Reserve Board and most economic leaders.

There is a third group that argues that the state mobilization of resources to save the financial system is in fact an attempt to save financial institutions, including many of those whose imprudence and avarice caused the current crisis. This group divides in two. The first subgroup agrees the current financial crisis could have profound economic consequences, but believes a solution exists that would bring liquidity to the financial markets without rescuing the culpable. The second subgroup argues that the threat to the economic system is overblown, and that the financial crisis will correct itself without major state intervention but with some limited implementation of new regulations.

The first group thus views the situation as beyond salvation, and certainly rejects any political solution as incapable of addressing the issues from the standpoint of magnitude or competence. This group is out of the political game by its own rules, since for it the situation is beyond the ability of politics to make a difference — except perhaps to make the situation worse.

The second group represents the establishment consensus, which is that the markets cannot solve the problem but the federal government can — provided it acts quickly and decisively enough.

The third group spoke Sept. 29, when a coalition of Democrats and Republicans defeated the establishment proposal. For a myriad of reasons, some contradictory, this group opposed the bailout. The reasons ranged from moral outrage at protecting the interests of the perpetrators of this crisis to distrust of a plan implemented by this presidential administration, from distrust of the amount of power ceded the Treasury Department of any administration to a feeling the problem could be managed. It was a diverse group that focused on one premise — namely, that delay would not lead to economic catastrophe.


<font size="4">From Economic to Political Problem</font size>

The problem ceased to be an economic problem months ago. More precisely, the economic problem has transformed into a political problem. Ever since the collapse of Bear Stearns, the primary actor in the drama has been the federal government and the Federal Reserve, with its powers increasing as the nature of potential market outcomes became more and more unsettling. At a certain point, the size of the problem outstripped the legislated resources of the Treasury and the Fed, so they went to Congress for more power and money. This time, they were blocked.

It is useful to reflect on the nature of the crisis. It is a tale that can be as complicated as you wish to make it, but it is in essence simple and elegant. As interest rates declined in recent years, investors — particularly conservative ones — sought to increase their return without giving up safety and liquidity. They wanted something for nothing, and the market obliged. They were given instruments ultimately based on mortgages on private homes. They therefore had a very real asset base — a house — and therefore had collateral. The value of homes historically had risen, and therefore the value of the assets appeared secured. Financial instruments of increasing complexity eventually were devised, which were bought by conservative investors. In due course, these instruments were bought by less conservative investors, who used them as collateral for borrowing money. They used this money to buy other instruments in a pyramiding scheme that rested on one premise: the existence of houses whose value remained stable or grew.

Unfortunately, housing prices declined. A period of uncertainty about the value of the paper based on home mortgages followed. People claimed to be confused as to what the real value of the paper was. In fact, they were not so much confused as deceptive. They didn’t want to reveal that the value of the paper had declined dramatically. At a certain point, the facts could no longer be hidden, and vast amounts of value evaporated — taking with them not only the vast pyramids of those who first created the instruments and then borrowed heavily against them, but also the more conservative investors trying to put their money in a secure space while squeezing out a few extra points of interest. The decline in housing prices triggered massive losses of money in the financial markets, as well as reluctance to lend based on uncertainty of values. The resu lt was a liquidity crisis, which simply meant that a lot of people had gone broke and that those who still had money weren’t lending it — certainly not to financial institutions.


<font size="4">The S&L Precedent</font size>

Such financial meltdowns based on shifts in real estate prices are not new. In the 1970s, regulations on savings and loans (S&Ls) had changed. Previously, S&Ls had been limited to lending in the consumer market, primarily in mortgages for homes. But the regulations shifted, and they became allowed to invest more broadly. The assets of these small banks, of which there were thousands, were attractive in that they were a pool of cash available for investment. The S&Ls subsequently went into commercial real estate, sometimes with their old management, sometimes with new management who had bought them, as their depositors no longer held them.

The infusion of money from the S&Ls drove up the price of commercial real estate, which the institutions regarded as stable and conservative investments, not unlike private homes. They did not take into account that their presence in the market was driving up the price of commercial real estate irrationally, however, or that commercial real estate prices fluctuate dramatically. As commercial real estate values started to fall, the assets of the S&Ls contracted until most failed. An entire sector of the financial system simply imploded, crushing shareholders and threatening a massive liquidity crisis. By the late 1980s, the entire sector had melted down, and in 1989 the federal government intervened.

The federal government intervened in that crisis as it had in several crises large and small since 1929. Using the resources at its disposal, the federal government took over failed S&Ls and their real estate investments, creating the Resolution Trust Corp. (RTC). The amount of assets acquired was about $394 billion dollars in 1989 — or 6.7 percent of gross domestic product (GDP) — making it larger than the $700 billion dollars — or 5 percent of GDP — being discussed now. Rather than flooding the markets with foreclosed commercial property, creating havoc in the market and further destroying assets, the RTC held the commercial properties off the market, maintaining their price artificially. They then sold off the foreclosed properties in a multiyear sequence that recovered much of what had been spent acquiring the properties. More important, it prevented the decline in commercial real estate from accelerating and creating liquidity crises throug hout the entire economy.

Many of those involved in S&Ls were ruined. Others managed to use the RTC system to recover real estate and to profit. Still others came in from the outside and used the RTC system to build fortunes. The RTC is not something to use as moral lesson for your children. But the RTC managed to prevent the transformation of a financial crisis into an economic meltdown. It disrupted market operations by introducing large amounts of federal money to bring liquidity to the system, then used the ability of the federal government — not shared by individuals — to hold on to properties. The disruption of the market’s normal operations was designed to avoid a market outcome. By holding on to the assets, the federal government was able to create an artificial market in real estate, one in which supply was constrained by the government to manage the value of commercial real estate. It did not work perfectly — far from it. But it managed to avoid the most feared outcome, which was a depression.

There have been many other federal interventions in the markets, such as the bailout of Chrysler in the 1970s or the intervention into failed Third World bonds in the 1980s. Political interventions in the American (or global) marketplace are hardly novel. They are used to control the consequences of bad decisions in the marketplace. Though they introduce inefficiencies and frequently reward foolish decisions, they achieve a single end: limiting the economic consequences of these decisions on the economy as a whole. Good idea or not, these interventions are institutionalized in American economic life and culture. The ability of Americans to be shocked at the thought of bailouts is interesting, since they are not all that rare, as judged historically.

The RTC showed the ability of federal resources — using taxpayer dollars — to control financial processes. In the end, the S&L story was simply one of bad decisions resulting in a shortage of dollars. On top of a vast economy, the U.S. government can mobilize large amounts of dollars as needed. It therefore can redefine the market for money. It did so in 1989 during the S&L crisis, and there was a general acceptance it would do so again Sept. 29.


<font size="4">The RTC Model and the Road Ahead</font size>

As discussed above, the first group argues the current crisis is so large that it is beyond the federal government’s ability to redefine. More precisely, it would argue that the attempt at intervention would unleash other consequences — such as weakening dollars and inflation — meaning the cure would be worse than the disease. That may be the case this time, but it is difficult to see why the consequences of this bailout would be profoundly different from the RTC bailout — namely, a normal recession that would probably happen anyway.

The debate between the political leadership and those opposing its plan is more interesting. The fundamental difference between the RTC and the current bailout was institutional. Congress created a semi-independent agency operating under guidelines to administer the S&L bailout. The proposal that was defeated Sept. 29 would have given the secretary of the Treasury extraordinary personal powers to dispense the money. Some also argued that the return on the federal investment was unclear, whereas in the RTC case it was fairly clear. In the end, all of this turned on the question of urgency. The establishment group argued that time was running out and the financial crisis was about to morph into an economic crisis. Those voting against the proposal argued there was enough time to have a more defined solution.

There was obviously a more direct political dimension to all this. Elections are just more than a month a way, and the seat of every U.S. representative is in contest. The public is deeply distrustful of the establishment, and particularly of the idea that the people who caused the crisis might benefit from the bailout. The congressional opponents of the plan needed to demonstrate sensitivity to public opinion. Having done so, if they force a redefinition of the bailout plan, an additional 13 votes can likely be found to pass the measure.

But the key issue is this: Are the resources of the United States sufficient to redefine financial markets in such a way as to manage the outcome of this crisis, or has the crisis become so large that even the resources of a $14 trillion economy mobilized by the state can’t do the job? If the latter is true, then all other discussions are irrelevant. Events will take their course, and nothing can be done. But if that is not true, that means that politics defines the crisis, as it has other crisis. In that case, the federal government can marshal the resources needed to redefine the markets and the key decision-makers are not on Wall Street, but in Washington. Thus, when the chips are down, the state trumps the markets.

All of this may not be desirable, efficient or wise, but as an empirical fact, it is the way American society works and has worked for a long time. We are seeing a case study in it — including the possibility the state will refuse to act, creating an interesting and profound situation. This would allow the market alone to define the outcome of the crisis. This has not been allowed in extreme crises in 75 years, and we suspect this tradition of intervention will not be broken now. The federal government will act in due course, and an institutional resolution taking power from the Treasury and placing it in the equivalent of the RTC will emerge. The question is how much time remains before massive damage is done to the economy.

Tell Strategic Forecasting What You Think.

stratfor.com
 
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When the markets crashed after 9-11, the economy was fucked. Layoffs were increasing. The only thing that kept the economy afloat was the real estate market. It became the centerpiece, the load bearing wall of the economy and it was chock full of inflated home values which increased along with market speculation, real estate flippers and subprime predatory lenders, the commotidization of those subprime loans(this brought down most of the financial sector) and the formerly illegal practice of in effect Betting* on the success or failure of those subprime commodities(this piece brought down AIG). All of those issues were known from the start but Bush's economic team did nothing to fix the other areas of the economy - manufacturing's slow death, energy costs skyrocketing, trade deficit nightmare etc- or to slowly bring the RE perfect storm back to normal so that the markets could retain stability. So with no one managing shit it collapsed.
Blame Greenspan, George Bush, Paulson(and whoever else was sec of treasury) and blame all the republicans who rode shotgun on this ride to hell- bankrupting the nation to enrich a precious few.

Thats my view of it anyway.
 
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When the markets crashed after 9-11, the economy was fucked. Layoffs were increasing. The only thing that kept the economy afloat was the real estate market. It became the centerpiece, the load bearing wall of the economy and it was chock full of inflated home values which increased along with market speculation, real estate flippers and subprime predatory lenders, the commotidization of those subprime loans(this brought down most of the financial sector) and the formerly illegal practice of in effect Betting* on the success or failure of those subprime commodities(this piece brought down AIG). All of those issues were known from the start but Bush's economic team did nothing to fix the other areas of the economy - manufacturing's slow death, energy costs skyrocketing, trade deficit nightmare etc- or to slowly bring the RE perfect storm back to normal so that the markets could retain stability. So with no one managing shit it collapsed.
Blame Greenspan, George Bush, Paulson(and whoever else was sec of treasury) and blame all the republicans who rode shotgun on this ride to hell- bankrupting the nation to enrich a precious few.

Thats my view of it anyway.

You forgetting the democrats that didn't do shit in 2007.


I believe the bailout was more of an insurance claim than anything. The banks wanted that money just in case shit really hit the fan. Right now, the banks are sitting on that 700 billion, and waiting on how Obama will effect the economy. Think about it, what would you do with that type of money...GIVE IT AWAY? I don't believe that the credit situation is as bad as they say either. I think its more of the stingy approach than anything else....
 
No, The Free Market Did Not Cause the Financial Crisis!

No, the Free Market Did Not Cause the Financial Crisis

By Thomas E. Woods

05/05/09 Auburn, Alabama In March 2007 then-Treasury secretary Henry Paulson told Americans that the global economy was “as strong as I’ve seen it in my business career.” “Our financial institutions are strong,” he added in March 2008. “Our investment banks are strong. Our banks are strong. They’re going to be strong for many, many years.” Federal Reserve chairman Ben Bernanke said in May 2007, “We do not expect significant spillovers from the subprime market to the rest of the economy or to the financial system.” In August 2008, Paulson and Bernanke assured the country that other than perhaps $25 billion in bailout money for Fannie and Freddie, the fundamentals of the economy were sound.

Then, all of a sudden, things were so bad that without a $700 billion congressional appropriation, the whole thing would collapse.

In the wake of this change of heart on the part of our leaders, Americans found themselves bombarded with a predictable and relentless refrain: the free market economy has failed. The alleged remedies were equally predictable: more regulation, more government intervention, more spending, more money creation, and more debt. To add insult to injury, the very people who had been responsible for the policies that created the mess were posing as the wise public servants who would show us the way out. And following a now-familiar pattern, government failure would not only be blamed on anyone and everyone but the government itself, but it would also be used to justify additional grants of government power.

The truth of the matter is that intervention in the market, rather than the market economy itself, was the driving factor behind the bust.

F.A. Hayek won the Nobel Prize for his work showing how the central bank’s intervention into the economy gives rise to the boom-bust cycle, making us feel prosperous until we suffer the inevitable crash. Most Americans know nothing about Hayek’s theory (known as the Austrian theory of the business cycle), and are therefore easy prey for the quacks who blame the market for problems caused by the manipulation of money and credit. The artificial booms the Fed provokes, wrote economist Henry Hazlitt decades ago, must end “in a crisis and a slump, and…worse than the slump itself may be the public delusion that the slump has been caused, not by the previous inflation, but by the inherent defects of ‘capitalism.’”

Although my recently released book, Meltdown explains the process in more detail, an abbreviated version of Austrian business cycle theory might run as follows:

Government-established central banks can artificially lower interest rates by increasing the supply of money (and thus the funds banks have available to lend) through the banking system. This is supposed to stimulate the economy. What it actually does is mislead investors into embarking on an investment boom that the artificially low rates seem to validate but that in fact cannot be sustained under existing economic conditions. Investments that would have correctly been assessed as unprofitable are falsely appraised as profitable, and over time the result is the squandering of countless resources in lines of investment that should never have been begun.

If lower interest rates are the result of increased saving by the public, this increase in saved resources provides the material wherewithal to see the additional investment through to completion. The situation is very different when the lower interest rates result from the Fed’s creation of new money out of thin air. In that case, the lower rates do not reflect an increase in the pool of savings from which investors can draw. Fed tinkering, in other words, does not increase the real stuff in the economy. The additional investment that the lower rates encourage therefore leads the economy down a path that is not sustainable in the long run. Investment decisions are made that quantitatively and qualitatively diverge from what the economy can support. The bust must come, no matter how much new money the central bank creates in a vain attempt to stave off the inevitable day of reckoning.

The recession or depression is the necessary, if unfortunate, correction process by which the malinvestments of the boom period, having at last been brought to light, are finally liquidated. The diversion of resources into unsustainable investments out of conformity with consumer desires and resource availability comes to an end, with businesses failing and investment projects abandoned. Although painful for many people, the recession/depression phase of the cycle is not where the damage is done. The bust is the period in which the economy sloughs off the malinvestments and the capital misallocation, re-establishes the structure of production along sustainable lines, and restores itself to health. The damage is done during the boom phase, the period of false prosperity that precedes the bust. It is then that the artificial lowering of interest rates causes the squandering of capital and the initiation of unsustainable investments. It is then that resources that would genuinely have satisfied consumer demand are diverted into projects that make sense only in light of the temporary and artificial conditions of the boom.

Adding fuel to the fire of the most recent boom was the so-called Greenspan put, the unofficial policy of the Greenspan Fed that promised assistance to private firms in the event of risky investments gone bad. The Financial Times described it as the view that “when markets unravel, count on the Federal Reserve and its chairman Alan Greenspan (eventually) to come to the rescue.” According to economist Antony Mueller, “Since Alan Greenspan took office, financial markets in the U.S. have operated under a quasi-official charter, which says that the central bank will protect its major actors from the risk of bankruptcy. Consequently, the reasoning emerged that when you succeed, you will earn high profits and market share, and if you should fail, the authorities will save you anyway.” The Financial Times reported in 2000, in the wake of the dot-com boom, of an increasing concern that the Greenspan put was injecting into the economy “a destructive tendency toward excessively risky investment supported by hopes that the Fed will help if things go bad.”

When things do go bad, pumping more money into the banking system, thereby lowering interest rates once again, only exacerbates the problem, because it encourages the continued wasteful deployment of capital in unsustainable lines that will eventually have to be abandoned anyway, and it forces healthy, wealth-generating firms to have to go on competing with bubble firms for labor and capital. When interest rates are made artificially low, they encourage the kind of investment that would normally occur only if more saved resources existed to fund them than actually do. Continuing to force interest rates down only perpetuates the allocation of capital into outlets that the economy’s current resource base cannot sustain.

In response to the dot-com and NASDAQ collapses and the modest recession that accompanied them in 2000 and 2001 that Alan Greenspan and the Fed chose to embark on a robust policy of inflation, an approach that culminated in lowering the federal funds rate (the rate at which banks lend to each other) to a mere one percent from June 2003 to June 2004. Already by early 2001 the Fed had begun to ease once again. That year saw no fewer than 11 rate cuts. The unsustainable dot-com boom could not, in the end, be reignited, and thank goodness – the resource misallocations in that sector were unhealthy for the economy. But the Fed’s easy money and refusal to allow the recession of 2000 to take its course led to an even more perilous bubble elsewhere. That was the only recession on record in which housing starts did not decline. Not coincidentally, that was also the moment at which people began to conclude that house prices never fall, that a house is the best investment one can make, and so on. By intervening in the market then, the Fed prevented the market from making a full correction, thereby perpetuating unsustainable investment and consumption decisions. In so doing it merely postponed what it was trying to avoid, and made the crash worse when it finally came.

Fiscal stimulus, meanwhile, merely diverts resources from the productive sector in order to fund money-losing enterprises arbitrarily chosen by government. These artificial expenditures, moreover, interfere with the market’s attempt to sort out genuine demand from bubble demand. “Stimulus” spending can in fact keep firms (construction companies, for example) in business that for the sake of genuine economic health need to be liquidated so their resources can be more sensibly employed in more urgently demanded lines of production.

The claim that “stimulus” spending is necessary to bring “idle resources” back into use also misfires, since it fails to consider why so many entrepreneurs – who have survived as long as they have on the market because of their skill at anticipating consumer demand – should suddenly have become, all at once, such poor forecasters that they’re all saddled with idle resources.

The reason for the idle resources is, obviously, some prior act of miscalculation. And what could have created such systemic miscalculation? Could it be the Fed’s artificially low interest rates, that distort entrepreneurial forecasting and encourage the wrong kind of investments at the wrong time?

Consider a restaurant owner who mistakes the temporary demand for his product deriving from the presence of the Olympics in his city with real, sustainable demand. Suppose he opens a new location to accommodate all this new demand. When the Olympics are over, he’s left with idle resources – labor with nothing to do and empty restaurant space for starters. Should we want to “stimulate” these resources back into activity? Of course not. They shouldn’t have been allocated this way in the first place. We should want the market, guided by the price system, to redeploy them into sensible channels.

The problem, therefore, isn’t that we lack enough “spending” or “demand,” and that we need government to fill in the “missing demand.” The problem is that in the wake of Fed-induced misallocations of resources we wind up with structural imbalances, a mismatch between the capital structure and consumer demand. The recession is the period in which the economy repairs this mismatch by reallocating resources into lines of production that actually correspond to consumer demand. The modern preoccupation with levels of spending instead of patterns of spending obscures the most important aspects of the question.

Had the market been allowed to work before the collapse, there would have been no housing bubble and no crisis in the first place. Had the market been allowed to work when the crisis hit, recovery would have been swift – as it was in 1920-21, when an even worse depression came to a rapid end without any open-market operations by the Fed, and without any fiscal stimulus. (In fact, the federal budget was cut in half from 1920 to 1922.)

What, in short, should we do now? Exactly the opposite of what our so-called experts, who in a sane world would be forever discredited, urge upon us.

Regards,

Thomas E. Woods, Jr.
for The Daily Reckoning
 
Re: No, The Free Market Did Not Cause the Financial Crisis!

I know it says this was posted yesterday, but it feels like I've read this before.

The bankers and politicians are out of their minds.

Yet, "the people" continue to blindly follow them right over the cliff.

I sit here amazed that such a collective stupidity has descended over the voting public. It makes me wonder, is this a new phenomenon or has it always existed?

It helps me see why those at the top have such little respect for "the people" in this country.
 
Re: No, The Free Market Did Not Cause the Financial Crisis!

I sit here amazed that such a collective stupidity has descended over the voting public. It makes me wonder, is this a new phenomenon or has it always existed?

It helps me see why those at the top have such little respect for "the people" in this country.

:D thing is: The media from both sides have agendas and they like blaming each other for the conditions in the economy. Not enough people have an understanding of the 'fundamentals' of an economy so the natural reaction is to blame Capitalism. IMO, we need to examine the policies that got us into this situation and try to correct them.
 
Re: No, The Free Market Did Not Cause the Financial Crisis!

Seven or eight months out from the meltdown caused by unfettered, unregulated unadulterated capitalist greed and the corporatists are already in to revisionism.:smh:
 
Re: No, The Free Market Did Not Cause the Financial Crisis!

Seven or eight months out from the meltdown caused by unfettered, unregulated unadulterated capitalist greed and the corporatists are already in to revisionism.:smh:

I don't know whether you're right and they're wrong, vice-versa or some admixture -- but, it was a good come back. LOL

QueEx
 
Re: No, The Free Market Did Not Cause the Financial Crisis!

Seven or eight months out from the meltdown caused by unfettered, unregulated unadulterated capitalist greed and the corporatists are already in to revisionism.:smh:

I don't know whether you're right and they're wrong, vice-versa or some admixture -- but, it was a good come back. LOL

QueEx

No, it wasn't.

You do know this "bubble" has been building since 1913, right? When we started allowing the Federal Reserve to charge us for our OWN money. Income Tax was invented the same year.

Look at Sarbanes-Oxley. . . . PASSED IN 2002. That's regulation, right?

I agree Glass-Stegall should never been lifted, but that's not the BIGGEST reason we're here. We're here because of TOO MUCH DEBT.

Fighting 2 highly expensive wars that the both Democrats and Republicans voted for. We're expanding the empire all over the world with bases everywhere. Hell, we're still in Germany 60 years after WWII. And we're using the Chinese and everybody we can to finance our escapades.

You wanna know the real genesis of our problems you need to look at this.

http://www.petitiononline.com/fedres/petition.html
 
Re: No, The Free Market Did Not Cause the Financial Crisis!

Seven or eight months out from the meltdown caused by unfettered, unregulated unadulterated capitalist greed and the corporatists are already in to revisionism.:smh:

So everybody got greedy at the same time? Or did the govt prepare the groundwork for the meltdown?

Free markets regulate themselves, meaning, the greed for profit is always counter-balanced by the risk of loss! If the banks really thought they would lose on those loans, they never would've made them. Under capitalism, you allow the failure to happen. Under fascism, the corporations collude with the govt to stifle the people. Stop blaming capitalism!
 
Re: No, The Free Market Did Not Cause the Financial Crisis!

We have lived our whole lives under the rule and law of the Federal Reserve System.

These banks eat from everyone's plate, while providing nothing of value in return (other than these worthless Federal Reserve Notes).

The problem is this system has stolen everything and there is nothing left for the banks to steal in the US other than future income, or DEBT. But, we are not producing the income to service the DEBT, since too many industries are overseas or outsourced.

So, the banks got Bush to launch some wars to increase government debt. Then they inflated consumer credit (sub-prime, car loans, credit cards, etc.) to increase debt some more.

Sun Tzu (Art of War) -
There is no instance of a country having benefited from prolonged warfare.

Now, we have Obama continuing down the same road. Increase the wars... increase the bailouts... increase the DEBT!

No, it wasn't.

You do know this "bubble" has been building since 1913, right? When we started allowing the Federal Reserve to charge us for our OWN money. Income Tax was invented the same year.

1914 was the "official" end of the United States as an independent power (good riddance) and the rise of the private sovereign state (the rule of the Federal Reserve).

The private banks have run this country for almost 100 years. It appears there time may be at an end, and it was a resounding failure (WWI, Great Depression, WWII, Vietnam War, oil embargoes, Gulf War, Iraq/Afghanistan, recessions, boom/bust, declining standard of living).

It will be interesting to see how this inflationary monetary system unravels in a declining resource/wealth environment.
 
Krugman vs.Taylor

<script src="http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/.element/js/2.0/video/evp/module.js?loc=dom&vid=/video/bestoftv/2009/06/28/gps.krugman.taylor.econ.cnn" type="text/javascript"></script><noscript>Embedded video from <a href="http://www.cnn.com/video">CNN Video</a></noscript>​
 
Thought, Krugman should be discredited. He was a proponent of the low-interest rates which lead to the housing bubble! :smh: You may not like it but guys like Peter Schiff and Thomas Woods are gonna tell you the truth. Krugman doesn't understand the Fundamentals

7-18-2001
KRUGMAN: I think frankly it's got to be -- business investment is not going to be the driving force in this recovery. It has to come from things like housing, things that have not been (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

DOBBS: We see, Paul, housing at near record levels, we see automobile purchases near record levels. The consumer is still very much in this economy. Can he or she -- or I should say he and she, can they bring back this economy?

KRUGMAN: Well, as far as the arithmetic goes, yes, it is possible. Will the Fed cut interest rates enough? Will long-term rates fall enough to get the consumer, get the housing sector there in time? We don't know.

8-8-2001
KRUGMAN: I'm a little depressed. You know, inventories, probably that's over, the inventory slump. But you look at the things that could drive a recovery, business investment, nothing happening. Housing, long-term rates haven't fallen enough to produce a boom there. The trade balance is going to get worst before it gets better because the dollar is still very strong. It's not a happy picture.
 
Brothers, I need some making sense of the wall street bullshit and the bail out. Can someone help make sense of this in everyday terms and school a brother?

I'm to proud at say I don't understand and ask for help.

Like Que said READ, READ, READ!!! SLOW THE VIDEO DOWN AND RESEARCH THE SUPPORT STATEMENTS. Don't trust me, read, formulate your thoughts then articulate your position. This along with man's yearning for power and greed.

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Ultimately the present administration wants to nationalize all industries.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/1RZVw3no2A4&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/1RZVw3no2A4&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
 
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Fuck what you think about conspiracies, see thats why I am glad that not only do I have some white man edumacation I also have that hard knox ucla university corner of lenox ave degree...

dude all I am going to say is take it to the streets.... use common sense...

Just follow the money, who is doing all the lending, who controls the fucking rates to begin with..

who prints out worthless paper and marks it up 1000 percent, and have the masses calling it currency!!

credit swaps my shea buttered black ass!!!!
 
Fuck what you think about conspiracies, see thats why I am glad that not only do I have some white man edumacation I also have that hard knox ucla university corner of lenox ave degree...

dude all I am going to say is take it to the streets.... use common sense...

Just follow the money, who is doing all the lending, who controls the fucking rates to begin with..

who prints out worthless paper and marks it up 1000 percent, and have the masses calling it currency!!

credit swaps my shea buttered black ass!!!!

You are correct! follow the money, Representative Dodd was paid big time and is on the hot seat in his state. When you get a moment slow down the video and as you say follow the money. :yes:
 
Before we follow the $$$, One must ask the question, How did it enter into circulation? Remember Dubya? Wall Street got drunk! The sheep laughed because we we're used 2 'W' and the MSM is so clueless. No one ever followed up and asked "Who was pouring the alcohol"? The Fed did it by keeping interest rates too low for too long.

Both the Dems & Repubs took advantage of the low interest rates offered by the Federal Reserve. So, some would say the principle cause is Alan Greenspan but it appears that Bernanke is determined to keep digging that economic black hole a little deeper.

What the Fed did was print / counterfeit a whole lot of paper (which is backed by nothing) and basically bought up the world with it. There were people who spoke up but were ridiculed and marginalized by thee MSM. Yeah, follow the money!
 
There are a lot of variables. I do agree with the fact check piece posted earlier.


The Real Deal

So who is to blame? There's plenty of blame to go around, and it doesn't fasten only on one party or even mainly on what Washington did or didn't do. As The Economist magazine noted recently, the problem is one of "layered irresponsibility ... with hard-working homeowners and billionaire villains each playing a role." Here's a partial list of those alleged to be at fault:
The Federal Reserve, which slashed interest rates after the dot-com bubble burst, making credit cheap.

Home buyers, who took advantage of easy credit to bid up the prices of homes excessively.

Congress, which continues to support a mortgage tax deduction that gives consumers a tax incentive to buy more expensive houses.

Real estate agents, most of whom work for the sellers rather than the buyers and who earned higher commissions from selling more expensive homes.

The Clinton administration, which pushed for less stringent credit and downpayment requirements for working- and middle-class families.

Mortgage brokers, who offered less-credit-worthy home buyers subprime, adjustable rate loans with low initial payments, but exploding interest rates.

Former Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan, who in 2004, near the peak of the housing bubble, encouraged Americans to take out adjustable rate mortgages.

Wall Street firms, who paid too little attention to the quality of the risky loans that they bundled into Mortgage Backed Securities (MBS), and issued bonds using those securities as collateral.

The Bush administration, which failed to provide needed government oversight of the increasingly dicey mortgage-backed securities market.

An obscure accounting rule called mark-to-market, which can have the paradoxical result of making assets be worth less on paper than they are in reality during times of panic.

Collective delusion, or a belief on the part of all parties that home prices would keep rising forever, no matter how high or how fast they had already gone up.
The U.S. economy is enormously complicated. Screwing it up takes a great deal of cooperation. Claiming that a single piece of legislation was responsible for (or could have averted) the crisis is just political grandstanding. We have no advice to offer on how best to solve the financial crisis. But these sorts of partisan caricatures can only make the task more difficult.
 
You are correct! follow the money, Representative Dodd was paid big time and is on the hot seat in his state. When you get a moment slow down the video and as you say follow the money. :yes:

Who cares, someone has to pay for all that free stuff you want. This is America not Cuba. If you spent half a day in any of these utopia's you speak to, you would be begging to come back to the U.S.. This is a free country. If you don't like your life choices its not the nations obligation to ensure you a better one. Most companies have hired firms to represent their interest in washington. Good or Bad have they broken any laws by lobbying. Those who have broken laws will be brought up on charges. Lobbyist have even helped and continue to help your messiah. Aren't you happy? :D

:smh::hmm:

<iframe src="http://www.opensecrets.org/" width=800 height=1000></iframe>
 
Thought, Krugman should be discredited. He was a proponent of the low-interest rates which lead to the housing bubble! :smh: You may not like it but guys like Peter Schiff and Thomas Woods are gonna tell you the truth. Krugman doesn't understand the Fundamentals

First off, site your sources. Second, the low interest rates alone did not cause this mess. You know that is too simplistic of an analysis.
 
When thinking about this meltdown those base closing a few yrs ago comes to mind. They where suppose to save money and help the economy. Instead entire cities dried up and evidently they didn't help the economy. It's like that money was earmarked for wars in the Middle East. Also outsourcing of govt work to contractors. That didn't save money and most of the jobs are no benefits, temporary postions. Two years ago America was producing new millionaires at record levels but last yr over 13 trillion in wealth was lost. This can't just be a coincidence.
 
Re: The Wall Street Bubble Mafia

RI gov to shut down state government for 12 days
By RAY HENRY, Associated Press Writer Ray Henry, Associated Press Writer – Mon Aug 24, 5:32 pm ET
PROVIDENCE, R.I. – Rhode Island will shut down its state government for 12 days and trim millions of dollars in funding for local governments under a plan Gov. Don Carcieri proposed Monday to balance a budget hammered by surging unemployment and plummeting tax revenue.

The shutdown would force 81 percent of the roughly 13,550-member state work force, excluding its college system, to stay home a dozen days without pay before the start of the new fiscal year in July.

The closures come as the worst recession in decades has eliminated hundreds of millions of dollars in tax collections and pushed unemployment to 12.7 percent, the second-highest jobless rate in the nation behind Michigan.

Carcieri predicted the state's fiscal future could grow even bleaker.

"There are going to be inconveniences for the public, and there are going to be sacrifices, as I said, for state employees," Carcieri said at a Statehouse news conference. "These steps right now are unavoidable if the state is to live within its budget, live within its means."

Critical workers such as state police, prison guards and child abuse investigators still will report to work during the shutdown, Carcieri said. He ruled out raising taxes to balance the budget and said the state cannot lay off more workers since it deeply trimmed its work force last year.

If Goldman is a drain its about to pull all of us in.
 
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