Ok then name some name while your at it...
Where Does Lebron Rank All-Time For You As Of Today?
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That's a misleading way to put it. You're talking about number of attempts w/ 3s and then follow it with shooting percentage.
Overall FGA as a broad stat says nothing about shooting ability. Some of the worst free throw shooters of all time have a high FGA because they only shoot from the painted area..mainly layups and dunks.
Well over all shooting % shows how efficiant you are at your shots, I assume both had their share of easy points and some difficult, but making over double the amount of three pointers is very specific about the type of shots that were taken... So for LeBron to have made and taken that many more three pointers, you would assume, using logic, that his % should take a dip... Yet in spit of this he has a higher over all shooting % over a guy who is supposed to be one of the best shooting big men of all time...
You cannot make this stuff up, its right there in black and white..
dude off back career wise i'd take rashard lewis, mike miller, and shane battier over kurt rambis.. i can't remember all the players on the heat but them nigs is better than kurt rambis
Rashard and Shane wasn't on that first team and Miller was crippled the few games he managed to play, that first big three season...
Remember they didn't get their shooters until after the Mavs zone expose their lack of outside shooting..
damn dude never came back...anyway I'll grant you this @AllUniverse17 LBJ is easily the best point forward of all time right now...no semantics...no hypothetical scenarios...and I'm not including magic in that category to be a little fair...I think he will easily be considered a top 10 distributor when all is said and done and can maybe even put himself in the top 5 category...larry bird should not be in this conversation
I just gave you a clear example. Let me make is easier.
Shaq shot 59% from the field
Curry shoots 50% from the field.
Who is the better "shooter"? You've made an argument about shooting ability.
Without extracting out the shots into a "shot chart", you can't make any statements on shooting ability. Shooting a high percentage from the floor (yet a majority of your shots are taken underneath the basket) says nothing about your shooting ability. It's a statement on the type of shots you get. Your argument was about shooting ability.
A lot of people, especially old head actually believe Larry Bird was better than what he was, largely because he too also played big in big games, but also it was due to the fact that he was a great shooting big man for his day, but unfortunately for him the game has passed him by, and what was unique/outstanding back then is more common than you think today..
Simply put if Bird were to put up his numbers today, I don't think too many people would be mentioning him in the same breath of some of the all time greats..
But Curry made a billion more three pointers... I see your point, but with LeBron making over twice the amount of three point shots and yet still shoots for a higher overall % that sort of kills that Shaq /Curry scenario comparison...
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I tried to make it easy and it still goes over your head. Look at Lebron's shot chart. As a matter of fact, don't even use his entire career. Use this season's playoffs. His outside shooting was atrocious. He made up for by getting into the paint.
Lebron shoots a lower percentage from the floor than Bird. How are you even making the argument? Bird shoots higher from 3, higher from the free throw line, and has an overall higher FG percentage. Sit down.
Not only does overall FG not even tell the story, it wouldn't matter because Bird has a higher FG percentage anyway.
Do you even know what your argument is?
Is it that Lebron has take more 3s...so what.. a majority of the league has... because of the way the game has changed
The way you evaluate shooting ability is by evaluating the shot charts.
are u kidding me a cac that's putting up a double double and by todays overhype machine almost averages a triple double cause he gets 6 assist per.. he shoots, he post, he makes game winning shots, he makes tough shots and plays, he passes good..in 2days game and media hype he would be the great white hope.. he would get he makes his team better convo all the time.. u think whites wouldn't put him over lebron in their discussion in the media...they found 1 of their own..he'd literally be put in the greatest ever category today by the hype machine modern media... the ass kissing and worshipping would be legendary..ur bugging if u think larry wouldn't be talked about more now than b4..hell they had people fooled thinking steve nash was legendary and gave him 2 mvps with stockton numbers.. and ran that he makes his teammates better line..even though 3 of the players on that squad have drop more than 20 points a game without him..nike would've gave that nig a legendary deal juss so that all white american boys would cop his kicks by the boatload..he'd give white people hope
Let me make it easy on you....
Simply the more deep shots you take the more it should lower your over all % And being that LeBron has shot over twice the amount of three point shots yet still have a higher over all shooting % it proves that not only was he taking more deep shots, but he still shot better....
Now unless you are going to explain to me how taking three point shots actually increases your % then thats the end of this story...
Bird would be even better in today's game because he would be a better shooter. He's on record saying the only time he practiced 3s was the day of the 3 point contest. Now guys shoot a 1000s 3s a day in practice. It's something that is practiced now because of the way the game is played.
Getting a double double isn't that big of a deal today... Neither is averaging 22 points a game for your career... I know for a fact if he put up those numbers from the outside nobody would be calling him a great outside shooting big man, in today's NBA like they did back then....
You're retarded. I keep telling you to look at the fucking shot charts. You can find them right on nba.com. Lebron makes up for bad shooting by getting layups and dunks. Which is a smart thing.. but he's a bad/streaky shooter.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...t-shooter-outside-paint-during-2015-16-season
LeBron James Has Been NBA's Worst Shooter Outside Paint During 2015-16 Season
Though the Cleveland Cavaliers are sitting pretty atop the Eastern Conference standings and LeBron James is submitting yet another fantastic campaign, not everything has gone smoothly for the four-time MVP. Despite averaging 25.4 points, 7.4 rebounds and 6.1 assists per game, James has actually been theworst in the NBA at something.
While Stephen Curry has been lighting up scoreboards from all over the floor and taking a prohibitive lead in this year's MVP race, James has struggled mightily outside of the painted area:
NBA.com's John Schuhmann provided a list of the league's worst shooters, one that contains more than its fair share of notable names:
View image on Twitter
There are two primary ways of looking at this.
First, we can adopt a negative point of view and justifiably criticize an otherwise phenomenal basketball player for allowing such an important weakness to emerge. James is shooting 48.6 percent from the field, but he's hitting only 24.8 percent of his deep tries and throwing up bricks from virtually every mid-range zone.
Without fail, his shooting percentages on jumpers have plummeted:
After a blowout loss to the Portland Trail Blazers provided an inauspicious encore to a Christmas Day defeat at the hands of theGolden State Warriors, James explained that the Cavs should take the result and "throw it in the trash," per Cleveland.com's Joe Vardon.
Assuming we're sticking to the negative analysis, we can hope James is standing right next to the bin if he's the one doing the throwing. Otherwise, he might get a fine for littering.
But on the other hand, doesn't the poor shooting make his overall performance even more impressive? Every single opponent understands exactly what he must do to shut down the Cleveland superstar—make him shoot jumpers while keeping him away from the basket.
It's not working.
James is still one of only five qualified players in the NBA averaging at least 25 points per game with a true shooting percentage north of 55, joining Curry, Kevin Durant, James Harden and Russell Westbrook. Even with an established scouting report floating around, no one can figure out how to keep this forward away from the hoop. He still makes plays like the one below with far too much ease:
If anything, defenders are having more trouble than ever stopping James from getting into the painted area, where he's been so effective. Despite knowing that jump shooting is James' biggest weakness in 2015-16 (as has also been the case in some previous seasons), opponents are allowing him to take a remarkably high percentage of his shots from within 10 feet.
Looking at the same five-year stretch from before, take a peek at how small a slice of his overall attempts are coming from outside 10 feet:
LeBron Attacking
Create pie charts
Though last season interrupted a sustained trend, James is getting to his spots better than ever. A staggering 59.1 percent of his field-goal attempts have come within 10 feet during the current campaign, and that supplants 2013-14's 52.2 percent as the top mark of his career.
So has it mattered that James legitimately can't shoot from outside the paint? You tell me.
His player efficiency rating of 25.6 trails only Curry, Westbrook, Durant and Kawhi Leonard among all qualified players. He ranks 10th in win shares—the natural byproduct of serving as the undisputed leader of a Cleveland team sitting at No. 1 in its half of the NBA.
Noah Graham/Getty Images
According to my total points added database (which is explained in full throughout this article), he's on pace to add more value than everyone in the league other than Curry, Westbrook, Leonard and Kyle Lowry. Similarly, ESPN.com's real plus-minus has James behind just Curry, Westbrook and Leonard.
And if that's not enough, the Cavaliers' offense is quite a bit better when he plays.
Without the MVP candidate, Cleveland is posting an offensive rating of only 94.6, which would be 29th in the league-wide standings, ahead of only the Philadelphia 76ers and their putrid 94.4 points per 100 possessions. When James is on the floor, the number skyrockets to a gaudy 111.3—high enough that the Cavs would trail just the Warriors (114.2).
Yes, James has been an atrocious jump-shooter this year, giving ammunition to detractors who love pointing out that his game still isn't nearly as complete as it could be. But even still, he's been pretty darn effective.
yepppppppppppp... hey i already said i'd take bird over lebron juss of killer instinct and offensive ability..todays game he'd be even more dangerous... but the hype machine of the media would be calling that nig white jesus..truss i could hear people calling him that..jesus in the flesh
That's assuming a lot, matter fact the reason why I always say things like if he were to put up the same numbers is to keep the conversation factual, elimination any speculation...
so why did 15 points 11 assist game get steve nash an mvp???? why did the words he makes his teammates better line start being a new trending term..they overhyped the fuck out of nash.. 23,10, 6 would be way easier to overhype than 15 points 11 assist... hell wasn't they hyping up rubio and kevin love...bird is clearly better than all those guys so they'd easily push the overhype barrier.. hell some of ya fell for the lebron hype 1 nig saying lebron is the top 5 best passer ever the hype machine is real
RR can be a real tard sometimes. I have Lebron in my top 5 and I think he's going to make a real run for the top spot. But he's a bad shooter. It just doesnt matter because you can't keep him out of the paint.
And yet he scored more points this year than all but two of Birds best years also he still managed to shoot twice the amount of three point shots while shooting at a higher % So imagine what those numbers would have been if James shot more like he did in the playoffs when it really mattered..You're retarded. You do know that the 3 point shot is not the only jump shot in basketball, right? I keep telling you to look at the fucking shot charts. You can find them right on nba.com
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...t-shooter-outside-paint-during-2015-16-season
LeBron James Has Been NBA's Worst Shooter Outside Paint During 2015-16 Season
Though the Cleveland Cavaliers are sitting pretty atop the Eastern Conference standings and LeBron James is submitting yet another fantastic campaign, not everything has gone smoothly for the four-time MVP. Despite averaging 25.4 points, 7.4 rebounds and 6.1 assists per game, James has actually been theworst in the NBA at something.
While Stephen Curry has been lighting up scoreboards from all over the floor and taking a prohibitive lead in this year's MVP race, James has struggled mightily outside of the painted area:
NBA.com's John Schuhmann provided a list of the league's worst shooters, one that contains more than its fair share of notable names:
View image on Twitter
There are two primary ways of looking at this.
First, we can adopt a negative point of view and justifiably criticize an otherwise phenomenal basketball player for allowing such an important weakness to emerge. James is shooting 48.6 percent from the field, but he's hitting only 24.8 percent of his deep tries and throwing up bricks from virtually every mid-range zone.
Without fail, his shooting percentages on jumpers have plummeted:
After a blowout loss to the Portland Trail Blazers provided an inauspicious encore to a Christmas Day defeat at the hands of theGolden State Warriors, James explained that the Cavs should take the result and "throw it in the trash," per Cleveland.com's Joe Vardon.
Assuming we're sticking to the negative analysis, we can hope James is standing right next to the bin if he's the one doing the throwing. Otherwise, he might get a fine for littering.
But on the other hand, doesn't the poor shooting make his overall performance even more impressive? Every single opponent understands exactly what he must do to shut down the Cleveland superstar—make him shoot jumpers while keeping him away from the basket.
It's not working.
James is still one of only five qualified players in the NBA averaging at least 25 points per game with a true shooting percentage north of 55, joining Curry, Kevin Durant, James Harden and Russell Westbrook. Even with an established scouting report floating around, no one can figure out how to keep this forward away from the hoop. He still makes plays like the one below with far too much ease:
If anything, defenders are having more trouble than ever stopping James from getting into the painted area, where he's been so effective. Despite knowing that jump shooting is James' biggest weakness in 2015-16 (as has also been the case in some previous seasons), opponents are allowing him to take a remarkably high percentage of his shots from within 10 feet.
Looking at the same five-year stretch from before, take a peek at how small a slice of his overall attempts are coming from outside 10 feet:
LeBron Attacking
Create pie charts
Though last season interrupted a sustained trend, James is getting to his spots better than ever. A staggering 59.1 percent of his field-goal attempts have come within 10 feet during the current campaign, and that supplants 2013-14's 52.2 percent as the top mark of his career.
So has it mattered that James legitimately can't shoot from outside the paint? You tell me.
His player efficiency rating of 25.6 trails only Curry, Westbrook, Durant and Kawhi Leonard among all qualified players. He ranks 10th in win shares—the natural byproduct of serving as the undisputed leader of a Cleveland team sitting at No. 1 in its half of the NBA.
Noah Graham/Getty Images
According to my total points added database (which is explained in full throughout this article), he's on pace to add more value than everyone in the league other than Curry, Westbrook, Leonard and Kyle Lowry. Similarly, ESPN.com's real plus-minus has James behind just Curry, Westbrook and Leonard.
And if that's not enough, the Cavaliers' offense is quite a bit better when he plays.
Without the MVP candidate, Cleveland is posting an offensive rating of only 94.6, which would be 29th in the league-wide standings, ahead of only the Philadelphia 76ers and their putrid 94.4 points per 100 possessions. When James is on the floor, the number skyrockets to a gaudy 111.3—high enough that the Cavs would trail just the Warriors (114.2).
Yes, James has been an atrocious jump-shooter this year, giving ammunition to detractors who love pointing out that his game still isn't nearly as complete as it could be. But even still, he's been pretty darn effective.
This is one season, where he was clearly coasting... But if you take his career numbers into consideration, even including last season you will get an better account of how he shoots...RR can be a real tard sometimes. I have Lebron in my top 5 and I think he's going to make a real run for the top spot. But he's a bad shooter. It just doesnt matter because you can't keep him out of the paint.
I always said that LeBron will shoot at least 4 three pointers a game for effect...
One is to let keep the defense honest if they start to sag too much in the paint.. Even if he misses they sometime wake up and realize that they are giving him too much...
Next he takes deep shots when he is saving his legs, often he litrally take breaks while on the court, sometimes he doesn't shoot the ball and when he does he takes outside shots..
Remember whey Irving was taken out during the early 4 quarter at game 7 to get some rest and the announcers said that it was such a crucial moment in the game due to the fact that James was force to gut it out and yet he had to be the main scorer on the floor...
Well what did he do?? He simply too three three point shots making two of them, allowing the Cavs to push up the lead... All this while saving his legs for the close out...
One is to let keep the defense honest if they start to sag too much in the paint.. Even if he misses they sometime wake up and realize that they are giving him too much...
Next he takes deep shots when he is saving his legs, often he litrally take breaks while on the court, sometimes he doesn't shoot the ball and when he does he takes outside shots..
Remember whey Irving was taken out during the early 4 quarter at game 7 to get some rest and the announcers said that it was such a crucial moment in the game due to the fact that James was force to gut it out and yet he had to be the main scorer on the floor...
Well what did he do?? He simply too three three point shots making two of them, allowing the Cavs to push up the lead... All this while saving his legs for the close out...
You're a retard. You're arguing about shooting not cumulative scoring. Damn. You can't be dense as fuck.
But only taking into account that he has shot for twice the amount of three point shots...
Imaging we both had to shoot 100 shots yet you had to shoot twice the amount of three point shots as me... Add in the fact that I had to shoot over 10 three pointers, for you to have a better shooting % than me in spite of having to shoot double the amount of three point shots, clearly shows that you are the better shooter...
Historically, his numbers are well below the nba average for shooting. Like I said, the shot charts are publicly available.
Lebron is a below average shooting but one of the best scorers of all time. There is a distinction between shooting and scorer. You know there are great shooters who are below average scoring and there are also great scorers who are below average shooters. Sometimes you act like you don't even understand fundamental shit about basketball.
That you're comparing Lebron (in shooting) to one of the few players in the 90/50/40 club is borderline mentally challenged. Bird was actually the first person to do it. Look at that club, you'll see only the leagues premier SHOOTERS.
There is a reason a guy like Bird was winning 3 point contests for the entire league and Lebron couldn't even win one for his team.
Now if both Bird and LeBron were to take the same amount or even similar amount of three pointers, then you could point out that yes perhaps LeBron padded his % with more inside shots... But even if he were to pad his stats with more inside shots, he is unpadding them by taking so much more three point shots...
Are you retarded or are you mentally challenged? 3 point shooting is but ONE aspect of shooting. Go take a look at a fucking shot chart and see how it's divided. Fuck!
Well he actually shoot for a higher 3 pt % than Kobe and nobody calls him a below average three point shooter..
You are doing it for only one season, yet you are not showing me the same data for Bird... The only numbers we have on either of their careers are the shooting % and the amount of three pointers..
Again I give you the fact that LeBron may have twice as many dunks, however being that he has twice as many 3 pointers and they are twice as difficult to make, they sort of balance each other off....
Road Rage can be amazingly dense sometimes. The shit is wild. I just provided this dude with a shot chart that illustrated not only was Lebron not a good shooter, he's at times been one of the league's WORST shooters. And he's trying to say he's a better shooter than someone in the fucking 90/50/40 club because he's taking MORE 3 pointers but still shot a lower percentage from 3 for them. You know the type of mental gymnastics you have to do to try to argue something like that? He sounds like a white person who sees a video of a black man being shot for no fucking reason by a cops but invents all kinds of imaginary shit to rationalize it.
I have. Kobe just made up for it (scoring) with volume shooting. But again, 3 point shooting is but ONE aspect of shooting. You do realize there is an area between the three point and the paint, right?
