BERMAN: All right, my next guest, retired Army Ranger Rory Fanning supports Colin Kaepernick. He tweeted out this picture, saying, quote, "Sitting with Colin during the national anthem at the Cubs game, veterans for Kaepernick was the top trending hash tag on Twitter."
Rory Fanning now joining us live.
Rory, thanks so much for being with us. After you held up that sign that said "Veterans for Kaepernick" and
after you refused to stand for the national anthem, what was the response?
RORY FANNING, RETIRED ARMY RANGER: I thought it was going to be worse than it was, possibly being thrown out of the game, but none of that happened. I was the only person who was standing but there was surprisingly little pushback.
BERMAN: You said even before Kaepernick began his protest that you, even as a former Army Ranger, you were having a hard type standing during the national anthem, why?
FANNING: I signed up to go fight for freedom and democracy. What I saw when I was in Afghanistan is that we're doing anything but. We are -- we've killed one million people since 9/11, the vast majority being civilians. I came home to see that we have the largest prison population in the history of the world. Only Stalin's Russia comes close. The NSA monitors every single e-mail and phone call. And, you know, we choose to bail Wall Street bankers as opposed to funding public education. This is far from a free country. And I think anybody who puts their hand over their heart and claim that it is, is lying to themselves. I think Colin Kaepernick is choosing not to lie to himself or the people who actually fought to make sure that this is a free country.
BERMAN: Just one point. I don't think the NSA monitors every e-mail and phone call but I understand your concern about NSA surveillance. Your protest goes far beyond Colin Kaepernick's. Colin Kaepernick says he's protesting injustice in policing. You seem to have grievances that go far beyond that.
FANNING: Yeah, I mean, I want to live in a free country. And this is not a free country.
(CROSSTALK)
FANNING: We had 1,200 police murders last year. We had 1,200 police murders last year with zero convictions. You know, tell Freddie Gray's parents this is a free country when not one person was indicted for his murder. Tell Alton Sterling's parents this is a free country. It's not.
BERMAN: Look, to me -- you're getting into a debate over freedom and democracy. Let me ask one question first and I'll get to another question here.
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: Colin Kaepernick also, we saw the socks that Colin Kaepernick had been wearing with the pictures of pigs as policemen. How is that not doing some of the things that Colin Kaepernick is protesting against, grouping all police officers as pigs, which is a slur? That's a derogatory slur indicting all police officers, isn't it?
FANNING: We live in a country that has the largest prison population in the history of the world. 1,200 people were killed by the police last year and we want to talk about socks. But, yes, the people who killed Freddie Gray --
BERMAN: Well, look, look, look, look.
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: Colin Kaepernick --
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: We're not arguing about sock. Rory, hang on a second. We're not arguing just about socks here. We have talked about what Colin Kaepernick has stood up for and his right to do so. We have talked about the issues that you are protesting against. Colin Kaepernick has put himself in the middle of this discussion about policing right now, and he was wearing those socks, which are seen by many as offensive. The socks were part of the larger discussion here. It's not like we're having a sartorial discussion about fashion.
[11:35:] FANNING: People are looking for some kind of Kumbaya moment here. This is about accountability. This is about justice. And, yes, the people who killed Freddie Gray and who weren't held accountable, the people who killed the 1,200 U.S. citizens and weren't held accountable, are pigs. And the people who are covering for them, to include the media and politicians, are pigs, too.
BERMAN: Are all police pigs, Rory?
FANNING: I think if a lot of people -- a lot of police have very good intentions. But if you're supporting this current police state, then you are on the wrong side of history. We really need to start pushing back against this.
BERMAN: All right, Rory Fanning --
FANNING: To include members of the media.
BERMAN: -- thank you for coming on and airing your views. Appreciate your time, sir.
FANNING: Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1609/02/ath.01.html