time for fakers season predictions...

cranrab

Star
BGOL Investor
oh wait. look what just happened.

tobe goes 10-22 FGAs and the fakers WIN. surprise? NO. science? YES.

just to refresh:

fakers record when tobe has > 25 FGAs: 25-26 or .490 LOSERS

fakers record when tobe has 25 or fewer FGAs: 17-9 or .654 WINNERS

:lol: @ the thick headed fakers fans who still want to argue this point with me despite the fact that we're 78 games deep into the season...

talk about not wanting to face FACTS. :smh:
 

SpiritualPorn

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
tennblack said:
I understand somethings in life, but I will possible never know why people want just say Kobe is a great player. Yes, call them names (fakers), still the laker is and will be consider one of the NBA's great team reguardless who's on the team. So hate on. But if you ask most players to name the five top teams they would play for. "L A K E R S" will be called. :D :cool:

I think the majority of people that call Kobe out are not "haters". It's very juvenile to call objective critique "hatin".

Even Kobe fans must admit........when Jerry West left the Lakers they went to hell. Kobe made a very messy power play that did more to damage his rep than the rape case. He took a winning team and because of his ego drove everyone away. All this just so he can be the star.

Ask Garnett, McGrady or Iverson how they felt about being the man on okay teams and they will tell you that they would rather share the ball and win. VC had to learn that. Kobe never had a chance to really experience losing so he fucked up.

I don't know too many people that didn't like the Magic Kareem Showtime Lakers,so this is not a franchise dis. More of a franchise WTF are they thinking.

Kobe will be considered great but so is Reggie Miller, Dominuqe, Barkley and Malone. It's just when people elevate him to the Magic Bird level is when they go south for me. He is not there at all.

Maybe he will....maybe he won't. Time, not his poster jackoffs, will tell.
 

TimRock

Don't let me be misunderstood
BGOL Investor
Re: bringing the data up to date

cranrab said:
thanks for noticing. i forgot i needed to update the info:

fakers win loss record in games where tobe has > 25 FGAs: 25-26 or .490
ho hum. STILL LOSING BASKETBALL.

fakers win loss record in games where tobe has 25 or fewer FGAs: 16-9 or .640. yawn. WINNING BASKETBALL.

hmmm... scoring title and LOSING BASKETBALL

or

team play and WINNING BASKETBALL

NO question where the primadonna's mindset is at... :smh:

nike's laughing all the way to the bank off the sheep who love that clown...

But do these stats really matter now? They are in the playoffs (some people had them not even making it) and kobe will win the scoring title, and get some consideration for MVP. He probably wont win it though. But these stats dont really matter now. They will probably win 1 or 2 games against the Suns. Thats all people expect at this point. No one has them advancing out of the first round, at least i dont think anyone does. But I will give you credit for your theory. It proved right.
 

SpiritualPorn

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
I thought you guys would find this interesting

The Great Unknown
Ten seasons into a certain Hall of Fame career, Kobe Bryant remains, to teammates and opponents, admirers and haters, as big a mystery as ever

By Jack McCallum and L. Jon Wertheim

I. THE IMAGE

Some people are going to like me, some people aren't going to like me," Kobe Bryant is saying after a practice at the Lakers' El Segundo training facility in late March. "The people who don't, just have to understand who I truly am, and that can only happen through time. That's why you don't see me doing talk shows and things like that."

Opponents who marveled at Bryant's ability to compartmentalize his life while facing charges for felony sexual assault of an employee at a luxury hotel in Eagle, Colo., in 2003 -- he would fly to Eagle in the morning for proceedings in the case, then play an outstanding game in Los Angeles that night -- say he has become an even more steely-eyed assassin since his legal difficulties. "It's like he's paying everybody back," says Portland Trail Blazers guard Sebastian Telfair. "It's like he's thinking, The best way for me to get my image back is to go out there and kill everybody. He wants to, like, murder you."

Were you expecting a chastened, contrite post-Eagle Kobe? Bryant is adamant in his assertion that there is not -- and never will be -- a charm campaign to mend his image. The Lakers didn't do anything official to try to restore Bryant as an icon to the denizens of Staples Center, no meet-and-greets with season-ticket holders, no orchestrated interviews with Oprah or Ed Bradley. "Kobe's approach was: Let's have it be real, professional on and off the court; handle yourself the right way, every day," says John Black, the Lakers' director of public relations. "And, over time, people will respect that."

NBA commissioner David Stern recalls the pleas for Bryant to be suspended even after the sexual-assault charges against him were dropped. "That is not the American way," says Stern, who adds that "it's clear that Kobe hasn't made this into a case of either rehabilitation or image management. It's Kobe being Kobe."

Even before Eagle, Bryant's image was that of a loner, a fierce individualist who didn't connect with his teammates or the public at large. Though several people close to him bemoan his lack of a common touch, Bryant disputes his portrayal. "I never was as lonely and solitary as people thought," he says. "When I first came [into the NBA] I didn't know much about anything. So I kind of sheltered myself off. But I was 17 when I got here. Seventeen! It was hard figuring out who I was."

Bryant's claims to the contrary, there are signs that he cares about refurbishing his image, at least in select forums. Earlier this year he wrote a first person article for Dime, the hoops fanzine, addressing a wide range of issues. Most revealing were his observations about his relationship with the black community. "I never felt like I deserved to be part of our tradition because I grew up overseas, in Italy," he wrote. "... I never truly believed that my own people wanted to identify with me."

As the editors wrote in an explanatory note in the front of the magazine, "This story was important to Kobe; he viewed it as an opportunity to communicate unfiltered and uncensored with the public."

The article, of course, was a no-risk proposition, Bryant calling the shots, leaving little -- potentially unpleasant lines of inquiry, follow-up questions, unflattering photos -- to the control of others. There was no mention of the Colorado incident nor his role in splintering the Lakers and their run at a dynasty.

II. THE PLAYER

For all the contradictions swirling about him, there is this unassailable truth: Bryant is the game's best all-around player. And according to many, including Trail Blazers coach Nate McMillan, he's getting better. "If you want to find a player to build around, he's probably it," says McMillan. "He's got great size for a guard, he's pretty impossible to defend, and he is hard to score against when he hunkers down on defense."

Facing the defense, Bryant has no peer. He can avoid defenders like a stunt driver swerving through oncoming traffic. He can blow by for a dunk, pull up for a short jumper or simply rise up and hit a long-range, heavily contested perimeter missile.

With his back to the defense, Bryant is equally dangerous. If a defender gives him space, he faces up and banks in a jump shot. If a defender crowds him, he speeds past or overpowers him. If he's double-teamed, he up-fakes, pivots and squeezes between defenders for a layup, almost always without traveling. Innate athleticism aside, he has labored like a Broadway dancer to perfect his footwork.

Besides leading the league in scoring, Bryant ranked in the top 10 at week's end in steals, minutes, field goals attempted, field goals made, three-pointers attempted, three-pointers made, free throws attempted, free throws made and player efficiency rating.

It's been three decades since a player from a .500-level team was the league's MVP -- that was Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, who took the 1975-76 award even though his Lakers finished 40-42. With Bryant's Lakers 41-37 and tied for seventh place in the Western Conference through Sunday, even the "M-V-P!" cheers that erupt from time to time in Staples Center are tepid. But his play has been so outstanding this season that he must be on any short list of candidates.

"I'm not saying that he's the most valuable player, but he's certainly the best player," says Phoenix Suns coach Mike D'Antoni. "And it's not even close. He is utterly dominant."

III. THE GHOST

At times Bryant almost eerily channels Michael Jordan on the court -- the same fadeaway jumper, the same feral, crouched-panther stance on defense, the same pigeon-toed walk downcourt. But the debate over whether Kobe is the next Jordan is settled. As much as Madison Avenue might have wanted Bryant's crossover appeal to be as impressive as his crossover dribble, it is not. Jordan's default facial expression was a wide smile, Bryant's a cloudy frown. Still, the specter of Jordan looms inescapably over Bryant.

Like Jordan, he is capable of reducing even All-Stars to little kids in his presence. In a nearly deserted hallway long after a late-March game against Sacramento, Bryant emerged from the locker room to find his wife, Vanessa, and three-year-old daughter, Natalia, waiting for him. Kings forward Ron Artest, whom Bryant had badly outplayed on this evening, came by, carrying a throwaway camera and his five-year-old son, Ron Ron. "Kobe, would you take a picture with my boy?" Artest asked, the way a timid kid would ask a teacher for a favor. "Sure," said Kobe, stationing himself between Natalia and Ron Ron as Artest snapped away.

While Jordan, too, could be forbidding to other players, he also projected warmth -- far more than Bryant does. "When players sit around, Kobe's not a guy you might talk about and say, 'He's such a good dude,' like a Kevin Garnett,'" says Los Angeles Clippers guard Cuttino Mobley. "Nobody knows Kobe that well. He's not a sociable guy. That's not a fault; it's just his preference. When I was a rookie [in Houston], Scottie Pippen told me that Michael would go out with his teammates sometimes. He included guys and balanced everything out. I'm not sure Kobe does that."

"From a talent standpoint, he may be better than Jordan was at this stage of his career," says Clippers coach Mike Dunleavy. "The part of his game that he has to get better as opposed to Jordan is in the leadership department, how players respond to him, how he gets along, creating a chemistry. Players loved playing with Jordan. I don't know whether they do with Kobe."

It should be noted that Jordan's übercompetitiveness, which sometimes led him to humiliate his teammates, was generally seen as a positive, perhaps because he did it (mostly) behind closed doors, partly because he was, well, Michael. The same trait in Bryant is often seen as objectionable. "When he's being the nice Kobe, he's good with everybody," says San Antonio Spurs forward Robert Horry, a teammate of Bryant's in L.A. for seven seasons. "But when he's being the butthole Kobe, he's difficult. There were days when the second team would beat the first team, and he wouldn't speak to guys because he wanted to get back onto the court and beat them. He's just very passionate about his basketball."

As dominant as Jordan was, he had a way of refraining from lording it over his opponents. He disagreed, of course, with suggestions that there were actually defenders who could stop him (such as Detroit's Joe Dumars or Cleveland's Craig Ehlo), but he usually did it with grace and good humor.

Bryant does not. After he dropped 51 points on Raja Bell in a loss to the Suns last Friday, he was asked about the physical battle Bell had given him. Bryant shot the questioner a look that said Are you nuts? "Raja Bell?" he said, enunciating the name as if it were a contagious disease. "I don't even think about him. Man, I got bigger fish to fry than Raja Bell."

In The Last Season, Phil Jackson's tell-almost-all book about the 2003-04 season, the Lakers' coach labeled Bryant "uncoachable" and admitted that he tried to persuade general manager Mitch Kupchak to unload him before the February trading deadline. "[Kobe] could have been heir apparent to MJ and maybe won as many championships," Jackson wrote. "He may still win a championship or two, but the boyish hero image has been replaced by that of a callous gun for hire."

Two years later, having returned to the Los Angeles bench, Jackson is predictably conciliatory, insisting that Bryant would, for example, no longer defiantly remove himself from the offense, as he did during an infamous one-shot first half against the Kings late in the 2003-04 season. "Kobe now plays that role of involving guys in the offense without taking himself out," says Jackson. "It used to be an either-or situation, black or white.

"I wanted Kobe to move into the realm where he's not only the driving force by his play but also has a nurturing element," the Lakers' coach adds. "And that is what has come out this year. He's patient, accepting and friendlier to his teammates."

Some of the Lakers agree. "Before, Kobe wouldn't really say much and would just lead by playing hard, coming early and staying late," says forward Devean George, who among his current teammates has been with Bryant the longest (seven years). "Now he's more vocal. Some of the younger guys, it might bother them. They're still trying to find their way. Kobe being the superstar player and a big name, it holds weight when he yells. But he likes everybody on the team. I don't think he's doing it to put anyone down."

Bryant's most important relationship among his teammates is with talented 6'10" forward Lamar Odom. Bryant and Odom have the potential to be a 21st-century version of Jordan and Pippen. But Odom sometimes defers to Bryant too much; around the league it is generally thought that the Lakers' chances of flourishing in the postseason depend on how much Odom asserts himself.

One of the most intriguing subplots of the Lakers' season involves whether Bryant and Odom nearly came to blows after a 94-91 loss to the Wizards in Washington on Dec. 26. With five seconds remaining, Bryant turned the ball over but pinned the blame on Odom for a botched pick-and-roll. The principals say there was no subsequent altercation; other teammates confirm that harsh words were exchanged. Nevertheless, Odom, who has heard throughout his career how much better he would be if he had a warrior's mentality, sometimes seems in awe of Bryant's single-minded dedication to winning. "Kobe goes after it as hard as anybody in the league," says Odom. "He wants to win. That's what you have to understand about him."

Still, it's hard to determine where the party line stops and reality begins. His teammates know that they will face Bryant's wrath if they don't get him the ball in clutch situations ... and may face it anyway. After the Lakers lost close games at New Jersey (92-89 on March 17) and Cleveland (96-95 two days later), Bryant pointed fingers.

Against the Nets, Odom had trouble inbounding the ball and neglected to call timeout with 13 seconds remaining. That, Bryant said afterward, led to a broken play and an awkward Bryant miss as time expired. Bryant also brought Luke Walton into that conversation, angrily pointing to a spot on the floor where he presumably thought the Lakers' forward should've been.

In the loss to the Cavaliers, it was Walton who had a hard time getting the ball inbounds to Bryant on a last-shot play. Eventually he did, but Bryant received the pass 35 feet from the basket and missed a shot as time expired. After the game Bryant said that Walton should've called a timeout. "I guess I could have called a timeout," responded an uncharacteristically piqued Walton, "but it's a 48-minute game and we didn't lose because I didn't call a timeout."

IV. THE BELIEVERS

Bryant and his family have, at least publicly, lived down the embarrassment of Eagle. "My wife and daughter are my refuge," Kobe claims. The Bryants are expecting their second daughter in May. "Natalia can't wait to be a big sister," says Bryant. And that is all he'll say on the subject.

Off the court Bryant certainly has his supporters. Earlier this year Bryant paid a visit to his high school alma mater, Lower Merion in suburban Philadelphia, where he was approached by a member of the girls' basketball team. "How come you don't hook us up with shoes?" she asked.

The following day the girls' team received $17,000 worth of Nike shoes and gear. Last month, as the Lower Merion boys' team rode on a bus to the state championship game, Bryant called the team's captains to offer encouragement. He also left a message on the voicemail of coach Gregg Downer offering words of advice: "The key for the kids to understand is: Refuse to lose. Period. It's one game. Win this game. Worry about the next when it comes.... I'm sure you've had 'em working hard all season long. This is their moment to take. Just make sure they go out there and do it. Call me after you kick their asses. All right, brother. Out."

"Look, I know half the people out there think he's nasty or he's selfish," says Downer. "But I'm telling you, there's a lot of good in his heart."

Duke's Mike Krzyzewski, who has built his success on athletes with virtuous reputations, has asked Bryant to be the leader of the 2008 Olympic team in Beijing. "It's Kobe's time," Coach K says of Bryant. "He's 27 years old. He should try to assume a position of leadership [on] the team. I would think he's very hungry to do this. I see him fitting in very, very well."

Stern echoes that sentiment. "I have no qualms whatsoever about Kobe carrying the Olympic standard for us," the commissioner says. "In fact, I think it's great."

Nike had signed Bryant to a five-year, $45 million deal just days before the Colorado charges. According to Ralph Greene, the company's director for global basketball, Nike never came close to severing ties with Bryant. "He never ceased to be an intriguing basketball player or someone who could help us," says Greene. "And we knew we could help him."

Still, Nike did more or less hide Bryant for almost three years, launching their first Kobe shoe, the Zoom Kobe I, only this February. The decision to come out with a Bryant model, Greene says, was not motivated by market research or focus group testing. "In terms of Kobe's endorsement value, we always knew that his play on the court was going to be the motivating factor."

V. THE HATERS

For an athlete to refurbish his image, he needs to advance through a set of concentric circles -- the home fan, the basketball fan, the nonfan. Even after Eagle, Bryant remained in the good graces of most Lakers acolytes, particularly the Hollywood crowd, which was always more enthralled with Bryant's graceful acrobatics than with Shaquille O'Neal's brute force. Staples became, in effect, Bryant's personal decontamination chamber. This season, mostly by dint of his play, Bryant is winning back basketball fans outside of L.A. In 2006 he was the second-leading All-Star vote getter, behind only Yao Ming, who is always buoyed by an international voting bloc.

Yet even within the game, there is a reluctance to fully embrace Bryant's virtuosity. His 81-point game against the Toronto Raptors at Staples Center on Jan. 22 drew, at best, ambivalent reviews. Sniffed Miami Heat coach Pat Riley, "It's remarkable, the execution and the efficiency, but we've got a lot of guys in this league, if they took 70 shots, they'd score a lot of points." (For the record, Bryant took only 46 shots.)

Here's a laugh: New Jersey's Vince Carter expressed concern for the underlying message sent by the four-score-and-one. "The only bad thing about it is, young kids, whose minds are easily warped, are going to think, Ohhh, I am going to go out there and do it instead of [putting] the team concept first." This is the same Vince Carter who once wore his iPod through a layup line, all but extorted a trade from Toronto to New Jersey and loves to hoist fallaway 30-footers.

More damning, among the general public, Bryant's Q rating -- which measures a celebrity's recognition and likability -- remains subterranean. In an extensive poll regarding 1,750 celebrities conducted last month, Bryant achieved a positive Q-rating score of 12 and a negative score of 47. The average score was 17/25. Omarosa Manigault-Stallworth, the conniving Apprentice contestant, ranked dead last, scoring 3/82. Bryant was in the company of Vince McMahon, Robert Blake, and even Barry Bonds.

"Kobe is easily in the bottom fifth," says Steven Levitt, president of Marketing Evaluations, the Long Island-based company that measures Q ratings. "It's not enough to have a great game or lead the league in scoring to overcome the disgrace that's been heaped upon him. His negative is four times his positive. That should scare the hell out of [any potential sponsor]. You won't sell batteries or peanut butter or Ball Park hot dogs or even Gatorade with that ranking."

In 2002 Reebok executive Henry (Que) Gaskins, then Philadelphia 76ers guard Allen Iverson's adviser, memorably suggested that Bryant's skills outpaced his marketability to shoe companies because he didn't have any street cred.

Todd Boyd, a professor at USC's School of Cinema-Television and author of Young, Black, Rich, and Famous: The Rise of the NBA, the Hip Hop Invasion, and the Transformation of American Culture, is more harsh. "Saying Kobe has street cred is like saying Dick Cheney has street cred." Boyd says that Bryant's image problems in part stem from an ambiguous racial identity. "If Kobe had been a white American player, people would have seen him as someone visibly different from the NBA population and accepted him as an individual who didn't fit the culture. Well, he's African-American, but as far as his class and disposition, he's not what people normally associate with NBA players. Then he gets charged with this crime, and suddenly [he seems] like everybody else.... I honestly can't name any African-Americans not professing to be Lakers fans who like Kobe."

VI. THE LAST SHOT

Bryant would dispute Boyd's contention. It is imperative to remember how he grew up, as a loner in Italy, the relatively privileged son of a former NBA player turned expatriate. Kobe's first hoops hero was not Michael Jordan or Julius Erving but D'Antoni, a heady white point guard from West Virginia who was Italy's most famous professional player during Kobe's formative years. Bryant adopted jersey number 8 because that was D'Antoni's number.

There are other black athletes who grew up in privileged circumstances, of course, but rarely was one as divorced from the African-American experience as Bryant was. Outside Phoenix's America West Arena, after his 51-point performance last Friday, he referred to his first-person essay in Dime, in which he wrote, "When I went to visit the victims of Hurricane Katrina and saw how their faces lit up when they saw me, how they embraced me and how my presence lifted their spirits, I realized how wrong I'd been about everything. I'd wasted all these years wanting to do things for our people, but thinking I wasn't the one to do them, that I wouldn't be welcomed. But now I see that isn't true. The experience of Katrina and my own personal struggles brought me closer to our people." He is ready, he says, to wear the mantle of African-American hero.

But Bryant seems to want to get only so close to the larger public, to not even reveal that he cares about it. Here's more Kobe, after that March practice at the Lakers' training facility: "You can have one person say, 'He's got a terrible image.' And you can have another person say, 'He has a great image.' What do people think of me? It's all over the place. That doesn't really give you much, does it?"

Issue date: April 17, 2006

What do you think guys?
 

TimRock

Don't let me be misunderstood
BGOL Investor
Very interesting. Theres a lot of truths in there. He does need to find a way to assert himself as the leader. But like yall said, the media twists things around alot. I remember the game at Washington when they said Kobe and Odom got into a fist fight. The next day on a TNT telecast, David Aldridge said it clearly that kobe and odom fought. But then everyone else is saying it didnt happen.

Theres not much you can really say about this article. Its all been said. Everything in it seems true to me. But i will say this though. You cant make a person be more outgoing. Thats their personality. How many times has your girl tried to change you, or make you do something you are not accustomed to doing? You just can do that. Its up to the individual, if they want to change or try to change, then thats on them. Kareem and Magic didnt always get a long, but look where that got them. Shaq and Kobe didnt get along, 3 rings. I think that in time (maybe even next season) Phils magic will really start to rub off on him. And he will be more of a leader.

After his rape trial was over, he did try to assert him self back in to the communities and make a better image for himself. I think its working so far. Playing in the olympics, was part of Kenny's fund raiser for katrina, and even the stuff thats mentioned in the article.

As for the black community not accepting him: Thats always gonna happen. Look at Tiger Woods. Kobe came to harlem and played in the Rucker game. How much more accepted can you be? Once a black person (in my opinion) does something thats not "hood" they get dissed. Im not saying they shouldnt, but thats just how it is.

Good article though.
 

cranrab

Star
BGOL Investor
euro lame, euro game

i found the article to be amusing...

especially the reference to ron artest wanting the photograph of ron ron with tobe... the authors seemed to think that ron artest wanted the picture for HIMSELF, when really he was just getting the picture FOR ron ron...

for the record, ron artest doesn't much care about tobe, and his feelings stop just shy of dislike for tobe... i wish the author of this article had asked ron artest about his feelings about tobe stemming from an incident where tobe refused to autograph a pair of shoes for him... :smh:

as for all the rationalizations tobe offers (bitch made sympathy ploy) about questioning whether or not the Black community would accept his philanthropy, those are DEFINITELY the work of his advisors...

too bad the authors didn't look into how tobe treated a Black youth with sickle cell who used his MAKE A WISH foundation to meet tobe... :smh:
 

TimRock

Don't let me be misunderstood
BGOL Investor
Re: euro lame, euro game

cranrab said:
for the record, ron artest doesn't much care about tobe, and his feelings stop just shy of dislike for tobe... i wish the author of this article had asked ron artest about his feelings about tobe stemming from an incident where tobe refused to autograph a pair of shoes for him... :smh:

too bad the authors didn't look into how tobe treated a Black youth with sickle cell who used his MAKE A WISH foundation to meet tobe... :smh:


Just a question. How do you know this?
 

cranrab

Star
BGOL Investor
Re: euro lame, euro game

TimRock said:
Just a question. How do you know this?

FACT (a) elton brand told me.

FACT (b) i used to do a summer camp in los angeles for chronic and terminally ill children. the child with sickle cell was invited to the camp every year and i kept in touch with his family year round, as we both lived in south central los angeles.

coincidentally, rob pelinka's wife volunteered at the camp one year before she became a physician.
 

TimRock

Don't let me be misunderstood
BGOL Investor
Re: euro lame, euro game

cranrab said:
FACT (a) elton brand told me.

FACT (b) i used to do a summer camp in los angeles for chronic and terminally ill children. the child with sickle cell was invited to the camp every year and i kept in touch with his family year round, as we both lived in south central los angeles.

coincidentally, rob pelinka's wife volunteered at the camp one year before she became a physician.


So Fact (a) is bascially hearsay. As for Fact (b), how did Kobe treat the kid?
 

cranrab

Star
BGOL Investor
Re: euro lame, euro game

TimRock said:
So Fact (a) is bascially hearsay.

um, you DO know that elton brand and ron artest are FRIENDS, right?

they've grown up together and still keep in contact with each other.

BTW, VERIFIED information heard from another is NOT hearsay.

UNVERIFIED information heard from another IS hearsay.
 

TimRock

Don't let me be misunderstood
BGOL Investor
Re: euro lame, euro game

cranrab said:
um, you DO know that elton brand and ron artest are FRIENDS, right?

they've grown up together and still keep in contact with each other.

BTW, VERIFIED information heard from another is NOT hearsay.

UNVERIFIED information heard from another IS hearsay.

Got ya.
 

TimRock

Don't let me be misunderstood
BGOL Investor
Bill Simmons re: the MVP. This is on espn.com. Click the link at the bottom to see his list of how he THINKS the MVP race will go and to see #'s 2 - 10.

1. Kobe Bryant
You don't know how much this kills me. Actually, you probably do. But Mamba passes all three MVP questions ...

Question No. 1: When remembering this season 10 years from now, which player will pop into your head first?

Answer: Kobe. The dude scored 62 in three quarters against Dallas, then 81 against Toronto a few weeks later. He's about to become the fifth player in NBA history to average 35 points a game (along with Wilt, MJ, Elgin and Rick Barry). He made up with Shaq. He made up with Phil. He made up with Nike. He appeared on the cover of Slam Magazine with a Mamba snake wrapped around him. He did everything but make the obligatory cameo on "Will and Grace." No player took more abuse from writers, broadcasters and radio hosts this season, but Kobe seemed to feed off that negative energy. It was almost Bondsian. And just when it kept seeming like he might wear down, he'd toss up another 50 just to keep you on your toes. Kobe was relentless. That's the best way to describe him this season.

Question No. 2: In the proverbial giant pickup game with every NBA player waiting to play, who would be the first player picked this season?

Answer: Kobe. He's the best all-around player in the league, the best scorer, the best competitor, and the one guy who terrifies everyone else. Plus, if you DIDN'T pick him, he would make it his mission to haunt you on the other team.

Question No. 3: If you replaced every MVP candidate with a decent player at their position for the entire season, what would be the effect on their teams' records?

Answer: If you replaced Kobe with a decent 2-guard (someone like Jamal Crawford) for the entire 2005-06 Lakers season, they would have won between 15 and 20 games. I can say that in complete confidence. Terrible team. When Smush Parker and Kwame Brown are your third- and fourth-best players, you shouldn't even be allowed to watch the playoffs on TV. Throw Kobe in the mix and they're headed for 45 wins. So he's been worth 25 victories for them. Minimum.

In a weird way, Kobe ended up getting what he always wanted: The Lakers completely revolve around him. He gets to shoot 25-30 times per game. He gets to take every big shot at crunch-time. He gets all the credit. Nobody else on the team dares to challenge him. And even better, because he lucked out with the only possible coach who could make this cockamamie situation work, his supporting cast kills itself to make him look good.

Basically, he's Elvis and everyone else is Joe Esposito. And it's working! That's the crazy thing.

Now they're a sleeper in the West -- seriously, do you think Phoenix wants any part of them in Round 1? -- and have the only player in the league who can win a playoff series by himself. He's the Black Mamba, he's Kobe Bryant, he's the 2006 MVP, and since we finally have that settled, I will now light myself on fire.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/060414
 

SpiritualPorn

Rising Star
BGOL Investor
TimRock said:
Bill Simmons re: the MVP. This is on espn.com. Click the link at the bottom to see his list of how he THINKS the MVP race will go and to see #'s 2 - 10.



http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/060414

Okay.........right

Here is another example of how the NBA hypes players up.

This article is from a writer who is trying to infer that Chris Paul is better than Magic Johnson:


Portland. Boston. Utah. Milwaukee. Atlanta. Charlotte. Toronto.

All of them, and perhaps a few other teams, could have had Chris Paul in the 2005 draft. And with each passing game, the mistake those teams made is becoming more and more obvious. Based on his rookie year, Paul has essentially been the next Magic Johnson ... only better.

Chris Paul
Gregory Shamus/NBAE/Getty Images
Take a second to enjoy the season Chris Paul is having.

"CP3" (not be confused with his pal R2-D2) almost single-handedly rejuvenated a reeling New Orleans/Oklahoma City team that was coming off an 18-64 season, had been forced to relocate just weeks before the season started and had traded its All-Star center in the offseason. With only a week to go, observers are stunned to see Paul's Hornets steadfastly clinging to life in the Western Conference playoff race. Already the Hornets have more than doubled last season's win total, and with a strong flourish, they could even crack the West's top eight.

As a result, Paul is going to win the Rookie of the Year award. Check that -- Paul is going to win unanimously, with a Jupiter-sized gap between him and whichever guy comes in second. (And if they gave out an award for having your jersey neatly tucked in at all times, he'd win that too.)

Paul's Rookie of the Year status is well known, of course ... so why am I bringing it up now? Because I don't think most people realize what a remarkable season Paul is putting together. At first glance, most folks think of his year as good, yes, but not great ... and certainly not historic.

One reason is that his traditional stats don't jump off the page -- 16.4 points, 7.9 assists and 5.3 rebounds. That's sure as heck better than any other rookie this year, but doesn't exactly evoke visions of Bird and Magic taking the league by storm. And he's shooting only 43.2 percent from the floor and 28.3 percent on 3-pointers, so one might think he's not terribly efficient, either.

But Paul is devastating in other ways. For starters, he takes a ton of free throws. Paul averages six free throws per game, or about one for every two field goal attempts -- a ridiculously high rate for a point guard. Thus, even without a good shooting percentage or many 3-pointers, his true shooting percentage is 54.9 percent -- placing him 10th among point guards.

Placing 10th doesn't sound overly impressive until you start going down the line and realizing Paul is in the upper tier of his position in every category. Of the possessions he uses, 31.3 percent end with an assist -- that puts him 10th. He turns it over on just 9.4 percent of the possessions he uses -- that's 11th best. And he's an obscenely good rebounder, ranking second only to Jason Kidd among point guards in rebound rate.

Add it all up and Paul's player efficiency rating of 22.35 is quite impressive. It ranks fifth overall at the point position, and it's that low only because the position is unusually strong this year. Chauncey Billups, Steve Nash, Gilbert Arenas and Allen Iverson are the point guards ahead of him, and all four are having career years in terms of PER. Leaguewide, Paul's mark ranks 17th -- ahead of the PERs of Carmelo Anthony, Ray Allen and Vince Carter.

But the impact of Paul's season doesn't really settle in until you compare him with other rookie guards. Off the top of your head, you might think it's fairly common for a rookie point guard to come in and play roughly as well as Paul has. Guess again.

Most rookie point guards, even the ones who turn out to be total studs, struggle mightily. Such greats as John Stockton, Gary Payton, Steve Nash, Mark Price, Gail Goodrich, Mo Cheeks and Tiny Archibald all had PERs below the league average as rookies. So for a guard such as Paul to come along and take over immediately is unusual.

The same is almost as true for shooting guards. Only a rare few can come in and star immediately. Even the greats tend to do what Dwyane Wade and Clyde Drexler did -- have a rookie season during which they occasionally star and leave obvious hints of their enormous potential, but don't consistently put up All-Star numbers.

As a result, Paul's rookie season stacks up well when compared with those of other rookie guards in NBA history. Very well. Shockingly well. Let's cut right to the chase. Here's a complete list of every guard in NBA history to post a better rookie PER than Paul's:

1. Oscar Robertson
2. Michael Jordan

Yes, that is the whole list. MJ and the Big O. In terms of PER, Paul is the best rookie guard in two decades and the best rookie point guard in 45 years.

You were looking for some other names? Sorry, they don't stack up.

Let's start with the one most of you will ask about: Magic.

As a rookie, Earvin Johnson averaged 18.0 points, 7.7 rebounds and 7.3 assists and shot 53.0 percent while leading the Lakers to a championship. You might think, then, that the Magic man was better than Paul as a rookie, but you'd have a tough time proving it.

Despite Magic's having become synonymous with the triple-double, Paul's triple-double stats (points, rebounds, assists) as a rookie actually compare very well. Magic's scoring edge withers to almost nothing once you adjust for the difference in scoring between 1980 and 2006, and believe it or not, Paul has a much better assist ratio (percentage of possessions that end in an assist). The Magic man maintains an advantage in rebound rate, but it's much smaller than the disparity in per-game numbers would make you believe.

So what's the difference between Paul and Magic? Turnovers. The Magic man was a turnover machine as a young player (he set a record in the Finals that year with 10 in a single game), coughing it up far more often than Paul has (15.1 percent of possessions for Magic to 9.3 percent for Paul). So essentially, Paul is doing nearly all the things Magic did as a rookie but with substantially fewer turnovers. No, Paul won't be able to play center in Game 6 of the Finals, but short of that, it's hard to make a case for Johnson as the superior rookie.

Top Rookie Seasons by Guards in NBA History (Ranked By PER)
PLAYER SEASON TEAM PTS/40 REB/40 AST/40 TS% PER
Oscar Robertson '60-61 Cincinnati 28.6 9.4 9.1 55.5 25.9*
Michael Jordan '84-85 Chicago 29.4 6.8 6.1 59.2 25.8
Chris Paul '05-06 NO/OC 18.1 5.8 8.7 54.9 22.4
Magic Johnson '79-80 Los Angeles 19.9 8.5 8.1 60.2 20.6
Vince Carter '98-99 Toronto 20.8 6.4 3.4 51.6 19.6
Calvin Murphy '70-71 San Diego 25.7 4.9 6.5 53.2 19.4*
Steve Francis '99-'00 Houston 20.0 5.9 7.3 54.3 18.4
Allen Iverson '96-97 Philadelphia 23.5 4.1 7.4 51.3 18.0
Rod Strickland '88-89 New York 21.2 4.7 9.4 53.9 18.0
Andre Miller '99-'00 Cleveland 17.5 5.4 9.1 51.7 17.9
* NBA didn't track individual turnovers before 1977-78; PER relies on estimate for turnovers.

And so it goes down the line. Johnson was actually the best rookie guard after Jordan and Robertson before Paul came along. The next two closest were Vince Carter and Calvin Murphy, but both have obvious shortcomings to Paul as a passer and Paul has a much better true shooting percentage than either. The comparisons get more one-sided as we move further down the list.

Having done this exercise, we find ourselves pondering a much bigger question: How good can this guy be? If only two guards in the history of the league can match what he did as a rookie, does this destine Paul to become one of the best guards of all time?

Unfortunately, that conclusion doesn't necessarily follow. Players improve at different rates for different reasons, and ironically, one factor that works against Paul is his low turnover rate. In general, players with a high turnover rate as young players tend to improve more in future seasons than their low-turnover counterparts. Even players who eventually became low-turnover guys, like Chauncey Billups, had high rates as rookies.

However, another trend should strongly outweigh the one above: Most guards improve massively over the course of their first three pro seasons. If Paul follows anywhere close to that trend line, he's going to be the best point guard in basketball within a year or two.

Additionally, it's not hard to see where the improvement might come. Paul's shooting percentages have substantial room for increase, and his form is good enough to suggest he'll find the range once he gets used to the pro 3-point line. Plus, Paul is only 20 years old, so he might develop further physically, too.

So although he might not (or might) end up being the caliber of player the Big O and Jordan were, that's about all we can say about Paul's ceiling. He's already as good as nearly any other point guard in game today, and as he learns his craft and develops his jumper, he'll only get better. Not bad for a guy who, in one way or another, saw seven teams pass on him in the draft.
 

cranrab

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TimRock said:
Question No. 1: When remembering this season 10 years from now, which player will pop into your head first?

my answer will be the player who puts his teammates on his back and leads them through the playoffs and into (but not necessarily wins) the finals.

10 years from now tobe's 2005-2006 accomplishments will be obscure sports trivia... tobe's best efforts will be mere jetsam and flotsam of the post-shaquille o'neal fakers era... scoring champion what? most fakers fans can't even remember FIVE seasons ago (much less TEN) when shaquille o'neal was the scoring leader in 2000.

TimRock said:
Question No. 2: In the proverbial giant pickup game with every NBA player waiting to play, who would be the first player picked this season?

hands down, tim duncan. in 9 seasons, all TD has done is lead the spurs to 53 or MORE wins EVERY season (except the game shortened 1999 season, where the spurs were STILL 37-13 or .740 winning percentage), with 60 or MORE wins TWICE.

tim duncan has also won 3 championships with these 3 VERY DIFFERENT teams:

1999: avery johnson, mario elie, sean elliot, david robinson

2003: tony parker, stephen jackson :puke: , bruce bowen, david robinson

2005: tony parker, manu ginobili, bruce bowen, rasho nesterovic :puke:

tobe wouldn't even be my 2nd choice, which would be shaquille o'neal.

TimRock said:
Question No. 3: If you replaced every MVP candidate with a decent player at their position for the entire season, what would be the effect on their teams' records?

if the fakers replaced tobe with a DECENT team player, the fakers would've won 50 or more games this season.

FOOD FOR THOUGHT:

in the 9 complete seasons since tobe entered the league, there have only been 17 players who have received FIRST PLACE votes in the MVP ballot. below i've provided the players names and their FIRST PLACE vote totals. take a look at where tobe stands in comparison to REAL players:

IN A CLASS BY HIMSELF

shaquille o'neal: 205

THE NEXT LEVEL

tim duncan: 166
kevin garnett: 164
michael jordan: 134
karl malone: 127
allen iverson: 101

HMMM...

steve nash: 65
jason kidd: 47
alonzo mourning: 36
tracy mcgrady: 11

AND THEN THERE'S :lol:

tobe: 9
chris webber: 5
gary payton: 4
jermaine o'neal: 2
ben wallace: 1
amare stoudemire: 1
peja stoyakovic: 1 :puke:
 

cranrab

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BGOL Investor
2 more things i forgot about tim duncan...

AND I'M NOT EVEN A TIM DUNCAN FAN...

in the league 8 complete seasons: FIRST TEAM NBA ALL DEFENSE 6 times, second team 2 times.

in the league 8 complete seasons: how 'bout FIRST TEAM NBA ALL LEAGUE EVERY SEASON? :eek:

:lol: @ people who wanna try and compare tobe to michael jordan when tobe can't even SNIFF tim duncan... :smh:
 

Havoc

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Re: euro lame, euro game

cranrab said:
i found the article to be amusing...

especially the reference to ron artest wanting the photograph of ron ron with tobe... the authors seemed to think that ron artest wanted the picture for HIMSELF, when really he was just getting the picture FOR ron ron...

for the record, ron artest doesn't much care about tobe, and his feelings stop just shy of dislike for tobe... i wish the author of this article had asked ron artest about his feelings about tobe stemming from an incident where tobe refused to autograph a pair of shoes for him... :smh:

as for all the rationalizations tobe offers (bitch made sympathy ploy) about questioning whether or not the Black community would accept his philanthropy, those are DEFINITELY the work of his advisors...

too bad the authors didn't look into how tobe treated a Black youth with sickle cell who used his MAKE A WISH foundation to meet tobe... :smh:

...right.

We must have ready two different paragraphs. All I got from it was that Ron Artest was maybe a little shy (even the words "shy" or "nervous" are too strong here) about asking another player to take a picture with his kid (maybe it was because Kobe's family was present, and with reporters there, too?).

I don't know. Maybe it's just my interpretation of the situation.
 

Havoc

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Re: 2 more things i forgot about tim duncan...

cranrab said:
AND I'M NOT EVEN A TIM DUNCAN FAN...

in the league 8 complete seasons: FIRST TEAM NBA ALL DEFENSE 6 times, second team 2 times.

in the league 8 complete seasons: how 'bout FIRST TEAM NBA ALL LEAGUE EVERY SEASON? :eek:

:lol: @ people who wanna try and compare tobe to michael jordan when tobe can't even SNIFF tim duncan... :smh:


Dude, seriously. I'm sure that there's SOMEONE SOMEWHERE that's willing to help with that purple/gold problem of yours. It can't be healthy to be so strongly infatuated for a single player.
 

Havoc

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cranrab said:
my answer will be the player who puts his teammates on his back and leads them through the playoffs and into (but not necessarily wins) the finals.

10 years from now tobe's 2005-2006 accomplishments will be obscure sports trivia... tobe's best efforts will be mere jetsam and flotsam of the post-shaquille o'neal fakers era... scoring champion what? most fakers fans can't even remember FIVE seasons ago (much less TEN) when shaquille o'neal was the scoring leader in 2000.



hands down, tim duncan. in 9 seasons, all TD has done is lead the spurs to 53 or MORE wins EVERY season (except the game shortened 1999 season, where the spurs were STILL 37-13 or .740 winning percentage), with 60 or MORE wins TWICE.

tim duncan has also won 3 championships with these 3 VERY DIFFERENT teams:

1999: avery johnson, mario elie, sean elliot, david robinson

2003: tony parker, stephen jackson :puke: , bruce bowen, david robinson

2005: tony parker, manu ginobili, bruce bowen, rasho nesterovic :puke:

tobe wouldn't even be my 2nd choice, which would be shaquille o'neal.



if the fakers replaced tobe with a DECENT team player, the fakers would've won 50 or more games this season.

FOOD FOR THOUGHT:

in the 9 complete seasons since tobe entered the league, there have only been 17 players who have received FIRST PLACE votes in the MVP ballot. below i've provided the players names and their FIRST PLACE vote totals. take a look at where tobe stands in comparison to REAL players:

IN A CLASS BY HIMSELF

shaquille o'neal: 205

THE NEXT LEVEL

tim duncan: 166
kevin garnett: 164
michael jordan: 134
karl malone: 127
allen iverson: 101

HMMM...

steve nash: 65
jason kidd: 47
alonzo mourning: 36
tracy mcgrady: 11

AND THEN THERE'S :lol:

tobe: 9
chris webber: 5
gary payton: 4
jermaine o'neal: 2
ben wallace: 1
amare stoudemire: 1
peja stoyakovic: 1 :puke:

I have a problem with some of these players. What's so damned difficult about being the MVP for Minnesota? MINNE-FUCKING-SOTA! The dumbass should have been traded to another team (obviously the team wouldn't want to trade him, but he should have demanded one, anyway).

And of course, AI's having the MVP season right now. So is Tracy McGrady, Jermaine O'Neal and Chris Webber. Let's not forget Peja and Shaq, too. It's not like they could possibly play any better than what they're already playing now. :rolleyes:

I'm actually a little more curious to know what people think about Chauncey Billups. Is he an above average player on a team with good players/chemistry or is he truly the MVP for this season? Is he holding it down in Detroit by himself (for the Pistons, my vote would go for Ben Wallace)?

What about Lebron James? I thought that they were going to make some noise in the playoffs last year, but I guess they were silenced by the Pistons.

My vote for MVP is going to be Steve Nash (who has held it down in Phoenix, even in Amare's absence), although he did have some help from Diaw and Marion. Then again, I don't like seeing repeats, so it'll be either :D Kobe :D or Lebron. Ron Artest has been playing very well since landing in Sacromento, so I think he should get an honorable mention or something.
 

SpiritualPorn

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BGOL Investor
Re: 2 more things i forgot about tim duncan...

cranrab said:
AND I'M NOT EVEN A TIM DUNCAN FAN...

in the league 8 complete seasons: FIRST TEAM NBA ALL DEFENSE 6 times, second team 2 times.

in the league 8 complete seasons: how 'bout FIRST TEAM NBA ALL LEAGUE EVERY SEASON? :eek:

:lol: @ people who wanna try and compare tobe to michael jordan when tobe can't even SNIFF tim duncan... :smh:

Too many facts

The sheep will get pissed
 

cranrab

Star
BGOL Investor
Re: 2 more things i forgot about tim duncan...

Havoc said:
Dude, seriously. I'm sure that there's SOMEONE SOMEWHERE that's willing to help with that purple/gold problem of yours. It can't be healthy to be so strongly infatuated for a single player.

uh, people make BASELESS comparisons of tobe to michael jordan and I'M somehow the one with a STRONG INFATUATION or a purple/gold problem?

the FACT is that tobe can't compare favorably to tim duncan. so i ask again, HOW CAN TOBE COMPARE TO MICHAEL JORDAN IF HE CAN'T EVEN COMPARE TO TIM DUNCAN?

tim duncan: consecutive regular season MVP. first player since michael jordan?
tobe: never sniffed regular season MVP.

tim duncan: 3 time playoffs MVP. only earvin johnson, michael jordan and shaquille o'neal have done that in nba history. nice company.
tobe: never sniffed playoffs MVP.

tim duncan: EIGHT consecutive NBA ALL LEAGUE FIRST TEAM nominations. how many players in the past 30 years can say that? earvin johnson, michael jordan, karl malone. anybody else? nice company.
tobe: can't touch this.

tim duncan: NBA ALL DEFENSE EVERY season. (6 FIRST TEAM, 2 SECOND TEAM)
tobe: can't touch this.

tim duncan: 53 or more victories EVERY SEASON (except the shortened season where there were only 50 total games).
tobe: well, we all know what happened without shaquille o'neal.

yeah, tobe fans are deluded, but i'm the one with the problem... :smh:
 
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cranrab

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whoops, i almost forgot...

tim duncan: rookie of the year (averaged 39 minutes per game), STARTED ALL 82 GAMES.
tobe: couldn't get off the bench (averaged 15 minutes per game), cracked the starting lineup SIX games.
 
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cranrab

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charley rosen - who'd he pick if he was starting a team?

If Charley Rosen just became the newest NBA franchise owner and could hire anyone as his GM and head coach, who does he hire and why? Assuming he is able to land any two players as his starters, who does he want and why?
— Jeff

R. C. Buford and Gregg Popovich. Then Tim Duncan and Tony Parker. Because nothing succeeds like success.
 

TimRock

Don't let me be misunderstood
BGOL Investor
Re: 2 more things i forgot about tim duncan...

cranrab said:
uh, people make BASELESS comparisons of tobe to michael jordan and I'M somehow the one with a STRONG INFATUATION or a purple/gold problem?

the FACT is that tobe can't compare favorably to tim duncan. so i ask again, HOW CAN TOBE COMPARE TO MICHAEL JORDAN IF HE CAN'T EVEN COMPARE TO TIM DUNCAN?

tim duncan: consecutive regular season MVP. first player since michael jordan?
tobe: never sniffed regular season MVP.

tim duncan: 3 time playoffs MVP. only earvin johnson, michael jordan and shaquille o'neal have done that in nba history. nice company.
tobe: never sniffed playoffs MVP.

tim duncan: EIGHT consecutive NBA ALL LEAGUE FIRST TEAM nominations. how many players in the past 30 years can say that? earvin johnson, michael jordan, karl malone. anybody else? nice company.
tobe: can't touch this.

tim duncan: NBA ALL DEFENSE EVERY season. (6 FIRST TEAM, 2 SECOND TEAM)
tobe: can't touch this.

tim duncan: 53 or more victories EVERY SEASON (except the shortened season where there were only 50 total games).
tobe: well, we all know what happened without shaquille o'neal.

yeah, tobe fans are deluded, but i'm the one with the problem... :smh:


Ok, i have seen it all now. Before it just seemed like you were trying to prove a point. But now it seems as though you really are infatuated with Kobe. Why dont you just compare him to everyone in the league? Tim Duncan is Tim Duncan, one of the greatest power fowards ever. So there is no comparison between he and kobe. Both will be in the HOF, both have rings, so whats the problem. Because Duncan won MVP? Will that stop kobe from getting in the HOF? Is the league gonna take away his rings because he never became MVP? And you made a statement about Kobe sitting on the bench his first year and Duncan having an impact right away. Ummmm, Kobe came straight from high school.. Duncan didnt. he was already developed. I know you will say "but look at Garnett". Seven feet tall. Come on. What was Jermain averaging? How about T-Mac? What were they averaging? How many starts did they get? These guys werent developed as of yet like Lebron and Garnett were.

It seems as though you are trying to find any excuse to bring his reputation down. All those comparisons to Duncan, what do they mean? Nothing. Im convinced that you are truley obsessed now. Im a kobe fan, but i would never, ever sit at my computer and look up stats or comparisons to other players. Its not worth it. There are 29 other teams and 500 or so other players, but yet, everyone seems to only talk about Kobe and the Lakers. Where are the Golden State, San Antonio, Milwaukee threads? How come I dont see any threads dedicated to Peja, or Wade, or Robert Horry. Its ridiculous.
 

cranrab

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Re: 2 more things i forgot about tim duncan...

TimRock said:
Ok, i have seen it all now. Before it just seemed like you were trying to prove a point. But now it seems as though you really are infatuated with Kobe.

think what you want, but try to stay ON POINT.

1st, i think it's normal for tobe to have fans.

2nd, i think it's great for the league for tobe to have fans.

3rd, i think it's ABNORMAL for fans to make up ridiculous myths about a player simply because they like him.

do any of these BASELESS claims sound familiar?

"plays great D"

"is matched up against the opponent's best player night in, night out"

"is the best player in the league"

"is better now than michael jordan was at this point in his career"

"shaquille o'neal wouldn't have won shit without him"

TimRock said:
Why dont you just compare him to everyone in the league?

oh i see. so if i compare tobe to TD, you cry "foul". but when damn near every tobe fan says something ridiculous like "tobe is the best player in nba today", then it's OK to overlook OBVIOUS comparisons to his contemporaries?

TimRock said:
It seems as though you are trying to find any excuse to bring his reputation down.

if FACTS bring down a player's fictional reputation, so be it. BASKETBALL fans don't need to disseminate lies in order to love the game. but for some strange reason, tobe fans need to create a fantasy in order to love their man.

TimRock said:
Where are the Golden State, San Antonio, Milwaukee threads? How come I dont see any threads dedicated to Peja, or Wade, or Robert Horry.

as soon as people are dumb enough to foolishly overstate a player's accomplishments on those squads, i'll be there to post about it. until then, i'll continue debunking the outlandish and UNSUPPORTED claims of infatuated tobe fans.
 
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xfactor

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xfactor said:
I dont even think the fakers will get to 50 but they should finish around 47-35... i do agree they'll make it to the playoffs.

lakers' regular season record : 45-37

Since I came the closest to picking the final record, dont I get a prize? :cool:
 
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