Those Damn Guns Again
- Thread starter thoughtone
- Start date
I think they do. Gun control people lose credibility with gun owners if gun owners believe the long-term or short-term goals are to eliminate private gun ownership.
If there were a different and distinct lobby believably identified as gun-control and they suggested waiting longer to get a gun, more transparency regarding who has one, or more accountability for the owner if their gun is used in a crime, then I think it would be less visceral opposition.
But when you identify the oppositions goal as anti-gun, then no matter how reasonable the idea is it will be met with intense suspicion. Of course, this applies to every political issue. No one worries about substance.
If there were a different and distinct lobby believably identified as gun-control and they suggested waiting longer to get a gun, more transparency regarding who has one, or more accountability for the owner if their gun is used in a crime, then I think it would be less visceral opposition.
But when you identify the oppositions goal as anti-gun, then no matter how reasonable the idea is it will be met with intense suspicion. Of course, this applies to every political issue. No one worries about substance.
Some say Obama re-election
fears may be driving gun sales
The Fort Worth Star-Telegram
<SPAN style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffff00">Monday, March 5, 2012</span>
FORT WORTH — Gun sales are booming.
Enthusiasts are stocking up on guns and ammunition, and some in the industry are wondering whether sales are spiking as they did after Democrat Barack Obama won the presidency in 2008.
That rush created a nationwide shortage.
"We're at the top of the roller coaster and we're about to plummet down the side," said DeWayne Irwin, owner of the Cheaper Than Dirt gun store in north Fort Worth, which set a sales record for the month of February. "It's fixing to happen again. I don't know if it will be to the same extent it was before, but I see it coming.
"Look who the Republicans are trying to put against Obama," he said. "It's the Keystone Kops and people are getting scared. People are terrified he's going to get re-elected and then he won't care about getting votes next time. He'll just pass whatever legislation he wants."
Enthusiasts are stocking up on guns and ammunition, and some in the industry are wondering whether sales are spiking as they did after Democrat Barack Obama won the presidency in 2008.
That rush created a nationwide shortage.
"We're at the top of the roller coaster and we're about to plummet down the side," said DeWayne Irwin, owner of the Cheaper Than Dirt gun store in north Fort Worth, which set a sales record for the month of February. "It's fixing to happen again. I don't know if it will be to the same extent it was before, but I see it coming.
"Look who the Republicans are trying to put against Obama," he said. "It's the Keystone Kops and people are getting scared. People are terrified he's going to get re-elected and then he won't care about getting votes next time. He'll just pass whatever legislation he wants."
Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2012/03/05/140793/some-say-obama-re-election-fears.html#storylink=cpy
It's not racism, it's just politics.
source: Fox News Latino
Hector ‘Macho’ Camacho Brain-Dead, Reports Say
Héctor Camacho’s current fight puts into context the true meaning of wins and losses. Hours after being shot, the former world champion boxer was declared brain-dead, Puerto Rico's El Nuevo Dia is reporting.
The fighter, who went by the nickname “Macho,” was shot in the head and neck on Tuesday night in Bayamon, Puerto Rico, after gunmen fired on the car in which the fighter was a passenger. The driver of the vehicle died.
According to reports, Camacho, 50, was taken off life support. The bullets missed his brain, fractured two vertebrae.
“His recovery would be a miracle," a doctor told the paper. "Medically, there is nothing we can do."
After suffering cardiac arrest Wednesday, the reality of Camacho’s situation seems grim. Hospital director Dr. Ernesto Torres has said his prognosis is “very poor.”
Members of the Camacho family were expected to arrive on the island Wednesday morning.
Social media added to the confusion and misinformation surrounding this developing story. An entry about Camacho on crowdsourced encyclopedia Wikipedia was briefly updated with incorrect information on Tuesday and stated that Camacho had died.
There are conflicting reports on the developing story. Reportedly, the police have a suspect or person of interest in custody.
The latest developments mark another sad – and potentially final -- chapter in the life of the talented fighter. Camacho went 79-6-3 with 38 knockouts in a career that spanned 30 years. He held featherweight, lightweight and light welterweight titles in both the WBO and WBC. His greatest success came during the 1980s and early ‘90s, although he mounted several comebacks as recently as 2010.
He faced some of the sports greatest fighters including Julio Cesar Chavez, Sugar Ray Leonard and Oscar De La Hoya.
In recent years, Camacho’s struggles with drugs and alcohol, as well as domestic violence charges, landed the fighter in the news.
The shooting also reflects a serious issue that is largely under reported by U.S. media. Homicide is a major problem in Puerto Rico. The island territory’s murder rate is five times higher than the U.S. average. Per capita, Puerto Rico has 26 murders for every 100,000 people -- exceeding Mexico’s much-covered homicide crisis.
Drug-related violence is estimated to account for 50 to 80 percent of the murders in Puerto Rico. In 2011, 1,136 people were murdered on the island with a population of 3.7 million. The violence has continued well into 2012. In just a single weekend in July, 19 people were murdered.
The motive in the Camacho shooting is not yet known. However, the car’s driver, Alberto Yamil Mojica Moreno, is one more casualty of the Puerto Rico’s homicide epidemic. The outcome for Camacho is still too early to tell.
Sports are often defined by statistics and record books, but no one wants to see Camacho become a statistic because of this tragedy.
Hector ‘Macho’ Camacho Brain-Dead, Reports Say
Héctor Camacho’s current fight puts into context the true meaning of wins and losses. Hours after being shot, the former world champion boxer was declared brain-dead, Puerto Rico's El Nuevo Dia is reporting.
The fighter, who went by the nickname “Macho,” was shot in the head and neck on Tuesday night in Bayamon, Puerto Rico, after gunmen fired on the car in which the fighter was a passenger. The driver of the vehicle died.
According to reports, Camacho, 50, was taken off life support. The bullets missed his brain, fractured two vertebrae.
“His recovery would be a miracle," a doctor told the paper. "Medically, there is nothing we can do."
After suffering cardiac arrest Wednesday, the reality of Camacho’s situation seems grim. Hospital director Dr. Ernesto Torres has said his prognosis is “very poor.”
Members of the Camacho family were expected to arrive on the island Wednesday morning.
Social media added to the confusion and misinformation surrounding this developing story. An entry about Camacho on crowdsourced encyclopedia Wikipedia was briefly updated with incorrect information on Tuesday and stated that Camacho had died.
There are conflicting reports on the developing story. Reportedly, the police have a suspect or person of interest in custody.
The latest developments mark another sad – and potentially final -- chapter in the life of the talented fighter. Camacho went 79-6-3 with 38 knockouts in a career that spanned 30 years. He held featherweight, lightweight and light welterweight titles in both the WBO and WBC. His greatest success came during the 1980s and early ‘90s, although he mounted several comebacks as recently as 2010.
He faced some of the sports greatest fighters including Julio Cesar Chavez, Sugar Ray Leonard and Oscar De La Hoya.
In recent years, Camacho’s struggles with drugs and alcohol, as well as domestic violence charges, landed the fighter in the news.
The shooting also reflects a serious issue that is largely under reported by U.S. media. Homicide is a major problem in Puerto Rico. The island territory’s murder rate is five times higher than the U.S. average. Per capita, Puerto Rico has 26 murders for every 100,000 people -- exceeding Mexico’s much-covered homicide crisis.
Drug-related violence is estimated to account for 50 to 80 percent of the murders in Puerto Rico. In 2011, 1,136 people were murdered on the island with a population of 3.7 million. The violence has continued well into 2012. In just a single weekend in July, 19 people were murdered.
The motive in the Camacho shooting is not yet known. However, the car’s driver, Alberto Yamil Mojica Moreno, is one more casualty of the Puerto Rico’s homicide epidemic. The outcome for Camacho is still too early to tell.
Sports are often defined by statistics and record books, but no one wants to see Camacho become a statistic because of this tragedy.
Gun sales soar again after presidential election
A shooter practices her aim. Americans are arming themselves like never before.
Jeff Sainlar/Milwaukee Journal Sentinel/MCT
Fort Worth Star-Telegram
Anna M. Tinsley
Sunday, November 25, 2012
FORT WORTH -- Michael Hill has been stockpiling guns and ammunition for almost a decade.
But he's not done -- not since President Barack Obama was re-elected this month.
In a continuing trend that alarms gun control proponents, Hill and thousands of other Americans are buying up ammo, handguns and other firearms, citing concerns that Obama might push new regulations in his second term or that U.N. agreements might infringe on the U.S. gun market.
"I have purchased more since the election," said Hill, 49, of Watauga. "I hear a lot of buzz about ... putting more restrictions in place.
"There's a lot of paranoia out there," he said. "But [Obama] has nothing to lose now because he won't be re-elected again."
Gun and ammo sales locally are on the rise -- about twice as high as they were this time last year -- even though sales can't match the mad rush that cleared out many gun stores after Obama was elected in 2008.
Weapon and ammunition shortages could be on the horizon if gun lovers keep up this pace.
Gun control advocates say they don't understand the rush to stock up on firearms, ammunition, magazines and more.
"I personally think it's very silly," said Marsha McCartney, a spokeswoman for the Texas chapter of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. "The president has not done anything in four years to make them think he's coming to get their guns.
Before taking office, Obama said he respected the constitutional right to bear arms. But after more than three dozen Chicago children were killed in 2007, he also said he wanted to restore the ban on assault weapons.
In the days after the 2008 election, people began stocking up on firearms and ammunition, eventually creating a shortage. It took nearly a year for supplies to become more plentiful and for prices to come down.
After this year's election, sales of ammunition and firearms again were pretty heavy, said DeWayne Irwin, owner of the Cheaper Than Dirt Outdoor Adventures gun store in north Fort Worth.
"Sales are well over twice as much as this time last year," he said, but he noted that "it's not even close to what we saw in '08."
Some shoppers have mentioned concerns that Obama might have held back on big changes during his first term to ensure that he would be re-elected. Now that he's won, big changes may lie ahead, they say.
While no shortages have occurred, demand for guns and ammo is strong.
Anticipating a sales rush after the election, Irwin himself stocked up on popular items, from all types of ammunition and magazines to AR-15s.
And he believes shortages loom in the not-too-distant future.
"I think all this will die down in the next six or eight months or maybe a year," Irwin said. "Then something will happen -- maybe talk of an assault riffle ban -- and it will all come up again.
"When it does, it will be bigger than in '08."
Assault weapons ban
President Bill Clinton signed the last so-called assault weapons ban on Sept. 13, 1994. A couple of months later, voters went to the polls and the House and Senate flipped from Democratic to Republican control.
When the ban came up for reauthorization in Congress in 2004, the measure failed.
During one of this year's presidential debates, Obama echoed his desire for a similar ban.
"Weapons that were designed for soldiers in war theaters don't belong on our streets," he said during the Oct. 16 debate with Republican Mitt Romney. "And so what I'm trying to do is to get a broader conversation about how do we reduce the violence generally. Part of it is seeing if we can get an assault weapons ban reintroduced.
"But part of it is also looking at other sources of the violence. Because frankly, in my hometown of Chicago, there's an awful lot of violence and they're not using AK-47s. They're using cheap handguns."
Obama's response -- and re-election -- drew praise from the national Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence.
"We were heartened by the president's response and stand ready to work with President Obama and leaders of both political parties in Congress to adopt and implement effective policies to reduce gun violence," Brady Campaign President Dan Gross said after the election. "Numerous polls show that the overwhelming majority of Americans, including gun owners and NRA members, support sensible policies, like criminal background checks, that will save lives.
"We look forward to working ... to make this the safer nation we all want and deserve."
Other concerns
Some worry that ongoing talks by the United Nations on an Arms Trade Treaty could lead to a reduction of overseas firearms being sold in the United States -- and potentially even a ban on private ownership of firearms here.
"It's obvious that our warnings over the past several months have been true," said Alan Gottlieb, founder and executive vice president of the Washington-based Second Amendment Foundation, a group promoting better understanding of the constitutional right to own firearms. "We have to be more vigilant in our efforts to stop this proposed treaty."
Others worry that Obama, during his second term, will have time to name one or two more justices to the Supreme Court who might not embrace individual gun rights as much as some already on the court.
"I believe Obama is anti-gun and I think he eventually will try to take them away from people," said Ron Cody, a 70-year-old Jack County resident who recently shopped at Cheaper Than Dirt.
There's general widespread concern about what Obama might do in a second term, he said.
"People are afraid of what [Obama] has said and the judges he has appointed," Cody said. "Future [Supreme] Courts are what we are worried about the most.
"The young people didn't think about that when they voted, I guess."
McCartney, of the Brady Campaign, said she doesn't think the best way to approach concerns is to stockpile ammunition and weapons, especially when most cities are safer than they were years ago.
"I can't imagine that it's very safe to have a stockpile of ammunition in your home," she said. "It's sad that people feel such fear in their communities."
Rising sales
Gun sales have been on the rise nationwide in recent years.
Through October, the FBI has received more than 14.8 million inquiries from people running criminal background checks on potential gun buyers -- compared with 16.4 million in 2011, 14.4 million in 2010, 14 million in 2009 and 12.7 million in 2008, according to the most recent records available.
Those figures were 11.1 million in 2007, 10 million in 2006, 8.9 million in 2005, 8.6 million in 2004 and 8.4 million in 2003, FBI records show.
Texas had around 1 million such requests in each of the past four years, records show.
The value of some weapon manufacturers went up after Obama was re-elected.
Sturm, Ruger & Co. and Smith & Wesson saw their stock prices increase, and Benchmark Co. estimates that firearm sales have grown about 10 percent each year since Obama was first elected, up from a 7 percent growth rate.
"We expect that with President Obama's re-election, these sales could continue well into his second term," Mike Greene, a Benchmark analyst, wrote in a note to clients.
Some gun shoppers say their current purchases have nothing to do with politics.
Craig Shewmake has bought two AR-15s since the election, but he said the timing is coincidental.
"I kind of think end times are coming, so I'm loading up," said Shewmake, 39, of Granbury. "Our president is our president and I have respect for our government.
"But my personal opinion is if America is going to let me have a gun, I will."
But he's not done -- not since President Barack Obama was re-elected this month.
In a continuing trend that alarms gun control proponents, Hill and thousands of other Americans are buying up ammo, handguns and other firearms, citing concerns that Obama might push new regulations in his second term or that U.N. agreements might infringe on the U.S. gun market.
"I have purchased more since the election," said Hill, 49, of Watauga. "I hear a lot of buzz about ... putting more restrictions in place.
"There's a lot of paranoia out there," he said. "But [Obama] has nothing to lose now because he won't be re-elected again."
Gun and ammo sales locally are on the rise -- about twice as high as they were this time last year -- even though sales can't match the mad rush that cleared out many gun stores after Obama was elected in 2008.
Weapon and ammunition shortages could be on the horizon if gun lovers keep up this pace.
Gun control advocates say they don't understand the rush to stock up on firearms, ammunition, magazines and more.
"I personally think it's very silly," said Marsha McCartney, a spokeswoman for the Texas chapter of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. "The president has not done anything in four years to make them think he's coming to get their guns.
"It's a sad commentary on what people are
telling these people to keep them frightened."
telling these people to keep them frightened."
Before taking office, Obama said he respected the constitutional right to bear arms. But after more than three dozen Chicago children were killed in 2007, he also said he wanted to restore the ban on assault weapons.
In the days after the 2008 election, people began stocking up on firearms and ammunition, eventually creating a shortage. It took nearly a year for supplies to become more plentiful and for prices to come down.
After this year's election, sales of ammunition and firearms again were pretty heavy, said DeWayne Irwin, owner of the Cheaper Than Dirt Outdoor Adventures gun store in north Fort Worth.
"Sales are well over twice as much as this time last year," he said, but he noted that "it's not even close to what we saw in '08."
Some shoppers have mentioned concerns that Obama might have held back on big changes during his first term to ensure that he would be re-elected. Now that he's won, big changes may lie ahead, they say.
While no shortages have occurred, demand for guns and ammo is strong.
Anticipating a sales rush after the election, Irwin himself stocked up on popular items, from all types of ammunition and magazines to AR-15s.
And he believes shortages loom in the not-too-distant future.
"I think all this will die down in the next six or eight months or maybe a year," Irwin said. "Then something will happen -- maybe talk of an assault riffle ban -- and it will all come up again.
"When it does, it will be bigger than in '08."
Assault weapons ban
President Bill Clinton signed the last so-called assault weapons ban on Sept. 13, 1994. A couple of months later, voters went to the polls and the House and Senate flipped from Democratic to Republican control.
When the ban came up for reauthorization in Congress in 2004, the measure failed.
During one of this year's presidential debates, Obama echoed his desire for a similar ban.
"Weapons that were designed for soldiers in war theaters don't belong on our streets," he said during the Oct. 16 debate with Republican Mitt Romney. "And so what I'm trying to do is to get a broader conversation about how do we reduce the violence generally. Part of it is seeing if we can get an assault weapons ban reintroduced.
"But part of it is also looking at other sources of the violence. Because frankly, in my hometown of Chicago, there's an awful lot of violence and they're not using AK-47s. They're using cheap handguns."
Obama's response -- and re-election -- drew praise from the national Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence.
"We were heartened by the president's response and stand ready to work with President Obama and leaders of both political parties in Congress to adopt and implement effective policies to reduce gun violence," Brady Campaign President Dan Gross said after the election. "Numerous polls show that the overwhelming majority of Americans, including gun owners and NRA members, support sensible policies, like criminal background checks, that will save lives.
"We look forward to working ... to make this the safer nation we all want and deserve."
Other concerns
Some worry that ongoing talks by the United Nations on an Arms Trade Treaty could lead to a reduction of overseas firearms being sold in the United States -- and potentially even a ban on private ownership of firearms here.
"It's obvious that our warnings over the past several months have been true," said Alan Gottlieb, founder and executive vice president of the Washington-based Second Amendment Foundation, a group promoting better understanding of the constitutional right to own firearms. "We have to be more vigilant in our efforts to stop this proposed treaty."
Others worry that Obama, during his second term, will have time to name one or two more justices to the Supreme Court who might not embrace individual gun rights as much as some already on the court.
"I believe Obama is anti-gun and I think he eventually will try to take them away from people," said Ron Cody, a 70-year-old Jack County resident who recently shopped at Cheaper Than Dirt.
There's general widespread concern about what Obama might do in a second term, he said.
"People are afraid of what [Obama] has said and the judges he has appointed," Cody said. "Future [Supreme] Courts are what we are worried about the most.
"The young people didn't think about that when they voted, I guess."
McCartney, of the Brady Campaign, said she doesn't think the best way to approach concerns is to stockpile ammunition and weapons, especially when most cities are safer than they were years ago.
"I can't imagine that it's very safe to have a stockpile of ammunition in your home," she said. "It's sad that people feel such fear in their communities."
Rising sales
Gun sales have been on the rise nationwide in recent years.
Through October, the FBI has received more than 14.8 million inquiries from people running criminal background checks on potential gun buyers -- compared with 16.4 million in 2011, 14.4 million in 2010, 14 million in 2009 and 12.7 million in 2008, according to the most recent records available.
Those figures were 11.1 million in 2007, 10 million in 2006, 8.9 million in 2005, 8.6 million in 2004 and 8.4 million in 2003, FBI records show.
Texas had around 1 million such requests in each of the past four years, records show.
The value of some weapon manufacturers went up after Obama was re-elected.
Sturm, Ruger & Co. and Smith & Wesson saw their stock prices increase, and Benchmark Co. estimates that firearm sales have grown about 10 percent each year since Obama was first elected, up from a 7 percent growth rate.
"We expect that with President Obama's re-election, these sales could continue well into his second term," Mike Greene, a Benchmark analyst, wrote in a note to clients.
Some gun shoppers say their current purchases have nothing to do with politics.
Craig Shewmake has bought two AR-15s since the election, but he said the timing is coincidental.
"I kind of think end times are coming, so I'm loading up," said Shewmake, 39, of Granbury. "Our president is our president and I have respect for our government.
"But my personal opinion is if America is going to let me have a gun, I will."
Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2012/11/...r-again-after-presidential.html#storylink=cpy
source: AlterNet
Gun Enthusiast Kills 17-Year-Old for Playing Loud Music; Lawyer Says He Acted "Very Responsibly"
Another “Stand Your Ground” death?
Jordan Davis (L) was shot and killed by Michael Dunn (R) this Friday in Jacksonville, Fla.
Michael David Dunn, 45, was in Jacksonville, Fla., this Friday for his son’s wedding, when afterward he decided to stop at a convenience store with his girlfriend. Four unarmed teenagers were in an SUV near where Dunn parked. After Dunn’s girlfriend went into the store to buy a bottle of wine, Dunn made a comment to the teenagers about their music being too loud. An argument ensued, and then Dunn, a gun collector, pulled out his gun and fired at the SUV between eight to nine times. Two shots hit and killed 17-year-old
Jordan Davis. Jacksonville homicide Lt. Rob Schoonover said:
Our victim was shot a couple of times. …They were listening to the music. It was loud; they [other teens] admitted that. But I mean that is not a reason for someone to open fire on them.
When his girlfriend returned to the car, Dunn drove off, admitting to her that he “fired at these kids.” After hearing a news report that someone died in the shooting at their Jacksonville hotel, the couple returned to their home to Brevard County, Fla. Witnesses of the shooting took down Dunn’s license plate number, which, on Saturday, helped police find Dunn’s house, where he was then arrested.
According to Schoonover, after his arrest, Dunn told Jacksonville detectives, “he felt threatened and that is the reason he took action.”
Dunn is being held without bail, and will be transported to a jail in Jacksonville to face charges of murder and attempted murder this week. On Monday, he pleaded not guilty in Brevard County court.
His attorney, Robin Lemonidis, said:
It will be very clear that Mr. Dunn acted very responsibly and as any responsible firearms owner would have acted under these circumstances.
Jacksonville Attorney Gene Nichols, however, said that although Dunn will most likely make a “Stand Your Ground” defense based on his statements in court, it’s a tough case to make.
He said:
Mr. Dunn is going to have to answer the question, 'Why did you not call the sheriff's office? If you are reasonably protecting yourself, why did you leave the scene, get in the car, and the next day, flee the jurisdiction of Duval County?' … There's no indication that Jordan or anyone else in that car had a gun, there's no indication that they were any threat to Mr. Dunn.
Davis’s death comes about a week after a Florida task force found that the state’s “Stand Your Ground” law is mostly fine as is and recommended only small changes. Florida governor Rick Scott created the task force after the death of unarmed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin in April. The task force made their conclusions despite research that shows “Stand Your Ground” laws actually increase homicides.
In response to the task force’s findings, Benjamin Crump, the attorney who represents Martin's parents, had told the Palm Beach Post two weeks ago:
We all believe it’s asinine that you can pursue someone, that you can be the aggressor and then shoot an unarmed kid and claim you were standing your ground. … Until we fix this law, there are going to be a lot of asinine claims of 'Stand Your Ground' when there’s another Trayvon Martin.
Gun Enthusiast Kills 17-Year-Old for Playing Loud Music; Lawyer Says He Acted "Very Responsibly"
Another “Stand Your Ground” death?
Jordan Davis (L) was shot and killed by Michael Dunn (R) this Friday in Jacksonville, Fla.
Michael David Dunn, 45, was in Jacksonville, Fla., this Friday for his son’s wedding, when afterward he decided to stop at a convenience store with his girlfriend. Four unarmed teenagers were in an SUV near where Dunn parked. After Dunn’s girlfriend went into the store to buy a bottle of wine, Dunn made a comment to the teenagers about their music being too loud. An argument ensued, and then Dunn, a gun collector, pulled out his gun and fired at the SUV between eight to nine times. Two shots hit and killed 17-year-old
Jordan Davis. Jacksonville homicide Lt. Rob Schoonover said:
Our victim was shot a couple of times. …They were listening to the music. It was loud; they [other teens] admitted that. But I mean that is not a reason for someone to open fire on them.
When his girlfriend returned to the car, Dunn drove off, admitting to her that he “fired at these kids.” After hearing a news report that someone died in the shooting at their Jacksonville hotel, the couple returned to their home to Brevard County, Fla. Witnesses of the shooting took down Dunn’s license plate number, which, on Saturday, helped police find Dunn’s house, where he was then arrested.
According to Schoonover, after his arrest, Dunn told Jacksonville detectives, “he felt threatened and that is the reason he took action.”
Dunn is being held without bail, and will be transported to a jail in Jacksonville to face charges of murder and attempted murder this week. On Monday, he pleaded not guilty in Brevard County court.
His attorney, Robin Lemonidis, said:
It will be very clear that Mr. Dunn acted very responsibly and as any responsible firearms owner would have acted under these circumstances.
Jacksonville Attorney Gene Nichols, however, said that although Dunn will most likely make a “Stand Your Ground” defense based on his statements in court, it’s a tough case to make.
He said:
Mr. Dunn is going to have to answer the question, 'Why did you not call the sheriff's office? If you are reasonably protecting yourself, why did you leave the scene, get in the car, and the next day, flee the jurisdiction of Duval County?' … There's no indication that Jordan or anyone else in that car had a gun, there's no indication that they were any threat to Mr. Dunn.
Davis’s death comes about a week after a Florida task force found that the state’s “Stand Your Ground” law is mostly fine as is and recommended only small changes. Florida governor Rick Scott created the task force after the death of unarmed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin in April. The task force made their conclusions despite research that shows “Stand Your Ground” laws actually increase homicides.
In response to the task force’s findings, Benjamin Crump, the attorney who represents Martin's parents, had told the Palm Beach Post two weeks ago:
We all believe it’s asinine that you can pursue someone, that you can be the aggressor and then shoot an unarmed kid and claim you were standing your ground. … Until we fix this law, there are going to be a lot of asinine claims of 'Stand Your Ground' when there’s another Trayvon Martin.
No there wouldn't because A) that group already exists (the Brady Center is the very group you mention. They do not suggest an outright ban on guns) and B) the NRA isn't a fact based lobby group. They drum up support by making outlandish statements and using fear mongering tactics, very effectively distorting the debate.
On the Belcher story, I'm not sure what this has to do with gun control at all. He didnt have a history of criminal convictions or mental illness so he was well within his rights. You can't stop every tragedy.
I specifically made the point to address believability in my post. You can cite any particular organization but if the perception of their goals is anti-gun, then they aren't going to crossover.
As far as the NRA is concern, you're right, they're horrible people.
That depends on who they're trying to appeal to. They have no shot at people who actually listen to the NRA but they can, and do, appeal to more sensible people. The issue isn't them or their message, it's the media environment that allows the Wayne LaPierres and his ilk to distort the conversation, much like they do the abortion topic.
It was personal. A painful reminder.
I agree the story itself is a bit removed from gun control debate -- especially since I don't support an out and out ban.
I hadn't even noticed your post with the pics. I was referring the topic nationally and how it's being talked about in the media.
source: Los Angeles Times
Bob Costas responds to critics of his remarks on Jovan Belcher
Bob Costas, who has been heavily criticized in some quarters for his remarks about guns Sunday in the wake of the murder-suicide committed by Kansas City Chiefs linebacker Jovan Belcher, said Tuesday night that he was not calling for gun control but rather wanted to push for a candid conversation about America’s gun culture.
Costas told MSNBC’s Lawrence O’Donnell, “Where some people may have misunderstood my comments was I took one aspect of it .... I do not think this is the only aspect or possible aspect. There’s clearly a domestic violence aspect. There’s clearly the question, as I alluded to in a general way, of what effect playing football — which we know has debilitating effects, mind and body, at least for some — what effect that might have had. What effect alcohol and drugs might have had. And another aspect of that is easy access to guns and a gun culture. And it was that aspect — the gun culture — that I focused on. Not to the exclusion of the others but just because I didn’t have all that much time.”
The Times' original report on Costas' remarks has received over 750 comments, many accusing Costas of attacking the 2nd Amendment.
“What I was talking about here, and I’m sorry if that wasn’t clear to everyone, was a gun culture. I never mentioned the 2nd Amendment, I never used the words 'gun control.' People inferred that. Now, do I believe that we need more comprehensive and more sensible gun-control legislation? Yes I do. That doesn’t mean repeal the 2nd Amendment. That doesn’t mean a prohibition on someone having a gun to protect their home and their family. It means sensible and more comprehensive gun-control legislation."
Belcher legally owned several guns.
"Give me one example of an athlete — I know it’s happened in society — but give me one example of a professional athlete who by virtue of his having a gun, took a dangerous situation and turned it around for the better," Costas said. "I can’t think of a single one. But sadly, I can think of dozens where by virtue of having a gun, a professional athlete wound up in a tragic situation.”
Bob Costas responds to critics of his remarks on Jovan Belcher
Bob Costas, who has been heavily criticized in some quarters for his remarks about guns Sunday in the wake of the murder-suicide committed by Kansas City Chiefs linebacker Jovan Belcher, said Tuesday night that he was not calling for gun control but rather wanted to push for a candid conversation about America’s gun culture.
Costas told MSNBC’s Lawrence O’Donnell, “Where some people may have misunderstood my comments was I took one aspect of it .... I do not think this is the only aspect or possible aspect. There’s clearly a domestic violence aspect. There’s clearly the question, as I alluded to in a general way, of what effect playing football — which we know has debilitating effects, mind and body, at least for some — what effect that might have had. What effect alcohol and drugs might have had. And another aspect of that is easy access to guns and a gun culture. And it was that aspect — the gun culture — that I focused on. Not to the exclusion of the others but just because I didn’t have all that much time.”
The Times' original report on Costas' remarks has received over 750 comments, many accusing Costas of attacking the 2nd Amendment.
“What I was talking about here, and I’m sorry if that wasn’t clear to everyone, was a gun culture. I never mentioned the 2nd Amendment, I never used the words 'gun control.' People inferred that. Now, do I believe that we need more comprehensive and more sensible gun-control legislation? Yes I do. That doesn’t mean repeal the 2nd Amendment. That doesn’t mean a prohibition on someone having a gun to protect their home and their family. It means sensible and more comprehensive gun-control legislation."
Belcher legally owned several guns.
"Give me one example of an athlete — I know it’s happened in society — but give me one example of a professional athlete who by virtue of his having a gun, took a dangerous situation and turned it around for the better," Costas said. "I can’t think of a single one. But sadly, I can think of dozens where by virtue of having a gun, a professional athlete wound up in a tragic situation.”
Flight attendant brings revolver through Philly airport
security and gun accidentally fires into TSA break room
Republic Airlines flight attendant Jaclyn Luby was going through
security at Philadelphia International Airport when screeners found
a gun in her purse. A police officer trying to put the safety on
accidentally shot it, according to reports. No one was hurt.
Gun-toting flight attendant Jaclyn Luby showed up for work at Philadelphia International Airport early
Sunday with a packed revolver inside her handbag, according to reports.
NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
By Erik Ortiz
Monday, September 24, 2012
A gun found inside a flight attendant’s handbag by screeners at Philadelphia International Airport early Sunday accidentally discharged into a break room — but missed hitting anyone, according to reports.
Republic Airlines flight attendant Jaclyn Luby was walking through airport screening around 6:50 a.m. when she placed her carry-on bag through the X-ray machine, according to ABC affiliate WPVI.
Transportation Security Administration screeners saw the gun, described as a .38 caliber Smith and Wesson Airweight revolver, and notified a Philadelphia police officer. Luby was in another screening room with police when the gun went off. The bullet fired into a TSA break room, where an employee was sitting, police told NBC 10 Philadelphia.
No one was injured.
The firearm was a .38 caliber Smith and Wesson Airweight revolver similar to the one pictured above
The gun discharged when the officer tried to put the safety on, according to MyFoxPhilly.com.
Luby, a flight attendant for more than five years, told authorities that she had a permit to carry a gun — but forgot hers was in her handbag.
She received a summary citation for disorderly conduct and was released, while the officer who fired the gun was put on desk duty during the investigation, WPVI said.
Republic Airlines, which operates through a US Airways Express hub in Philadelphia, confirmed the incident.
Travelers were surprised that an airline employee would mistakenly bring a firearm to the airport.
“We are human and everybody does make mistakes and I understand that, even though she’s a seasoned veteran, she needs to be careful,” US Airways passenger Andrea Burger told WPVI, adding, “I’m sure it will be a great learning opportunity for her.”
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...entally-fires-article-1.1166436#ixzz27ObepgFB
The gun went off while trying to engage the safety? This version of the airweight has no hammer or manual saftey, you can visually see this. What was the cop trying to do? Dumb ass, they're suppose to be the trained ones? Hmmph.
The first thing we learned in CCW class was how to 'pick up', hold & 'clear' a firearm. Cop got careless!
PS. Thats a bad-azz flight attendant!
Illinois Concealed Weapons Ban Tossed By Court
Concealed carry: Court strikes down Illinois' ban
December 11, 2012
By Ray Long, Annie Sweeney and Monique Garcia | Tribune reporters
The state of Illinois would have to allow ordinary citizens to carry weapons under a federal appeals court ruling issued today, but the judges also gave lawmakers 180 days to put their own version of the law in place.
In a 2-1 decision that is a major victory for the National Rifle Association, the U.S. Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals said the state's ban on carrying a weapon in public is unconstitutional.
"We are disinclined to engage in another round of historical analysis to determine whether eighteenth-century America understood the Second Amendment to include a right to bear guns outside the home. The Supreme Court has decided that the amendment confers a right to bear arms for self-defense, which is as important outside the home as inside," the judges ruled.
"The theoretical and empirical evidence (which overall is inconclusive) is consistent with concluding that a right to carry firearms in public may promote self-defense. Illinois had to provide us with more than merely a rational basis for believing that its uniquely sweeping ban is justified by an increase in public safety. It has failed to meet this burden.
"The Supreme Court’s interpretation of the Second Amendment compelled the appeals court to rule the ban unconstitutional, the judges said. But the court gave 180 days to "allow the Illinois legislature to craft a new gun law that will impose reasonable limitations, consistent with the public safety and the Second Amendment as interpreted in this opinion, on the carrying of guns in public."
David Sigale, an attorney who represented the Second Amendment Foundation in the lawsuit, called the decision by the appeals court in Chicago “historic.”
“What we are most pleased about is how the court has recognized that the Second Amendment is just as, if not at times more, important in public as it is in the home,” he said. “The right of self-defense doesn’t end at your front door.”
In the opinion, Judge Richard Posner wrote that “a Chicagoan is a good deal more likely to be attacked on a sidewalk in a rough neighborhood than in his apartment on the 35th floor of the Park Tower.”
Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan, a Democrat, is taking time to examine the ruling before deciding whether to appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court.
"The court gave 180 days before its decision will be returned to the lower court to be implemented,” said Natalie Bauer, Madigan’s spokeswoman. “That time period allows our office to review what legal steps can be taken and enables the legislature to consider whether it wants to take action."
Illinois is the only state in the nation not to have some form of conceal carry after Wisconsin recently approved law.
"The (Illinois) legislature, in the new session, will be forced to take up a statewide carry law," said NRA lobbyist Todd Vandermyde.
The lobbyist said prior attempts to reach a middle ground with opponents will no longer be necessary because "those compromises are going out the window."
House Majority Leader Barbara Flynn Currie, a longtime gun control advocate, said she hoped the state would appeal the ruling. But Currie also said lawmakers must “get cracking” on how to respond to the ruling and begin parsing its key points.
Currie, D-Chicago, said that “justices surely do not mean that we would have to have wide-open” laws in Illinois. She said Illinois must now look at what other states are doing, such as disallowing guns in day-care centers and other locations.
“If we need to change the law, let us at least craft a law that is very severely constrained and narrowly tailored so that we don’t invite guns out of control on each of our city’s streets,” Currie said. “I don’t want people out of control wandering the streets with guns that are out of control.”
Rep. Brandon Phelps, who has repeatedly sponsored concealed weapons legislation, hailed the measure as a “mandate."
“The justices more or less said Illinois has a mandate to get something passed within 180 days… to pass a concealed-carry law in the state of Illinois,” said Phelps, a Democrat from Downstate Harrisburg.
“I never thought we’d get a victory of that magnitude,” Phelps said.
Phelps fought unsuccessfully in the House to pass concealed weapons legislation with a long set of restrictions, but he warned opponents of his legislation may regret they had not supported it when they had a chance. Now, he said, he “can’t see us” going forward with legislation that has as many restrictions as the bill that failed.
The prior bill largely limited carrying weapons to when a person was in a car, walking into a house and out on a sidewalk, and it specifically disallowed guns to be carried in churches, schools, gymnasiums, sporting events, bars and businesses, Phelps said.
He said no decision has been made on which restrictions in his previous legislation would be removed in a new bill.
Phelps warned that gun control groups who might want to appeal the issue to the U.S. Supreme Court might put strict laws in other states in jeopardy. He said he would consult with the National Rifle Association and the Illinois State Rifle Association.
A spokeswoman for Gov. Pat Quinn said the administration is reviewing the decision. The governor has previously said he was firmly opposed to any law allowing citizens to carry loaded guns in public. He threatened to veto previous attempts by lawmakers to pass legislation allowing concealed carry in Illinois.
Mayor Rahm Emanuel said through a spokesman that he was “disappointed with the court’s decision.” The city is reviewing the opinion and will work with others “to best protect the residents of Chicago and still meet constitutional restrictions,” Bill McCaffrey added.
“As the mayor has said all along, the City of Chicago is committed to maintaining the fullest degree of lawful handgun restrictions possible while still respecting the Second Amendment rights of law abiding citizens, because maintaining common-sense restrictions is an issue of public safety.”
Last March, Emanuel introduced a resolution passed by the City Council in opposition to state legislation that would have allowed people to carry firearms in public. Like former Mayor Richard Daley before him, Emanuel has long been a proponent of gun control.
Under Daley, the U.S. Supreme Court overturned Chicago’s handgun ban. In mid-2010, the council enacted new gun-control measures, even as many aldermen conceded it would do little to quell crime. Those regulations require that Chicago handgun owners obtain a permit after undergoing mandatory firearms training and register their weapons.
Reaction to the decision is rolling in from City Hall to the Capitol.
Ald. Howard Brookins, 21st, chairman of the City Council black caucus, welcomed the decision, saying allowing Chicagoans to carry concealed weapons would help level the playing field in neighborhoods where law-abiding citizens feel like they need firearms to protect themselves.
"Certain people will have a sense of safety and peace of mind in the ability to do it," Brookins said of conceal-carry. "I know that even people, for example, just trying to see that their loved ones get homes safely are in technical violation of all sorts of weapons violations. If you just walk out to your garage and see that your wife is coming in the house safely, and you happen to have your gun on you, you're in technical violation of our ordinance. So I would hope all these ordinances would be consolidated so there's one set of rules and people would know where the bright line is to what they can and cannot do with respect to carrying a weapon."
Brookins said he's not worried doing away with the state ban would lead to an increase in gun violence as more people walk the streets with weapons. "I think those people have a gun now, they've just been made criminals because they can't legally have it," Brookins said. "And I think the gangbangers and thugs are going to have a gun regardless."
Sen. Bill Brady, the Bloomington Republican who supported concealed-carry in his failed 2010 bid for governor, hailed the court’s ruling, saying it represents a “recognition that law-abiding citizens in Illinois have a right to defend and protect themselves, just as the citizens of the 49 other states do. In today’s society, men and women should have an opportunity to be as safe on the streets as they are in their own homes.”
Brady said he will work with fellow lawmakers to write a “responsible law that meets that goal as well as to provide for safe enforcement of it. I would hope that all Illinois officials use their energy to craft a concealed carry law with appropriate safeguards that will make Illinois the model for implementation of concealed carry laws, rather than using those resources to appeal today’s ruling.”
A gun control group urged Attorney General Madigan to appeal the decision to the U.S. Supreme Court.
“As the dissenting opinion points out, the two judges who threw out Illinois' law did not take account of the danger to the public from stray bullets, and they ignored the Illinois legislature's determination that carrying weapons has been shown to escalate violence,” said Lee Goodman, an organizer with the Stop Concealed Carry Coalition, in a statement. “The decision, contrary to fundamental legal principles, took away the people's right, through their state legislatures, to make laws to protect themselves that are relevant to the conditions present in each state.”
Tribune reporters John Byrne and Hal Dardick contributed.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...11_1_court-strikes-appeals-court-david-sigale
Concealed carry: Court strikes down Illinois' ban
December 11, 2012
By Ray Long, Annie Sweeney and Monique Garcia | Tribune reporters
The state of Illinois would have to allow ordinary citizens to carry weapons under a federal appeals court ruling issued today, but the judges also gave lawmakers 180 days to put their own version of the law in place.
In a 2-1 decision that is a major victory for the National Rifle Association, the U.S. Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals said the state's ban on carrying a weapon in public is unconstitutional.
"We are disinclined to engage in another round of historical analysis to determine whether eighteenth-century America understood the Second Amendment to include a right to bear guns outside the home. The Supreme Court has decided that the amendment confers a right to bear arms for self-defense, which is as important outside the home as inside," the judges ruled.
"The theoretical and empirical evidence (which overall is inconclusive) is consistent with concluding that a right to carry firearms in public may promote self-defense. Illinois had to provide us with more than merely a rational basis for believing that its uniquely sweeping ban is justified by an increase in public safety. It has failed to meet this burden.
"The Supreme Court’s interpretation of the Second Amendment compelled the appeals court to rule the ban unconstitutional, the judges said. But the court gave 180 days to "allow the Illinois legislature to craft a new gun law that will impose reasonable limitations, consistent with the public safety and the Second Amendment as interpreted in this opinion, on the carrying of guns in public."
David Sigale, an attorney who represented the Second Amendment Foundation in the lawsuit, called the decision by the appeals court in Chicago “historic.”
“What we are most pleased about is how the court has recognized that the Second Amendment is just as, if not at times more, important in public as it is in the home,” he said. “The right of self-defense doesn’t end at your front door.”
In the opinion, Judge Richard Posner wrote that “a Chicagoan is a good deal more likely to be attacked on a sidewalk in a rough neighborhood than in his apartment on the 35th floor of the Park Tower.”
Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan, a Democrat, is taking time to examine the ruling before deciding whether to appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court.
"The court gave 180 days before its decision will be returned to the lower court to be implemented,” said Natalie Bauer, Madigan’s spokeswoman. “That time period allows our office to review what legal steps can be taken and enables the legislature to consider whether it wants to take action."
Illinois is the only state in the nation not to have some form of conceal carry after Wisconsin recently approved law.
"The (Illinois) legislature, in the new session, will be forced to take up a statewide carry law," said NRA lobbyist Todd Vandermyde.
The lobbyist said prior attempts to reach a middle ground with opponents will no longer be necessary because "those compromises are going out the window."
House Majority Leader Barbara Flynn Currie, a longtime gun control advocate, said she hoped the state would appeal the ruling. But Currie also said lawmakers must “get cracking” on how to respond to the ruling and begin parsing its key points.
Currie, D-Chicago, said that “justices surely do not mean that we would have to have wide-open” laws in Illinois. She said Illinois must now look at what other states are doing, such as disallowing guns in day-care centers and other locations.
“If we need to change the law, let us at least craft a law that is very severely constrained and narrowly tailored so that we don’t invite guns out of control on each of our city’s streets,” Currie said. “I don’t want people out of control wandering the streets with guns that are out of control.”
Rep. Brandon Phelps, who has repeatedly sponsored concealed weapons legislation, hailed the measure as a “mandate."
“The justices more or less said Illinois has a mandate to get something passed within 180 days… to pass a concealed-carry law in the state of Illinois,” said Phelps, a Democrat from Downstate Harrisburg.
“I never thought we’d get a victory of that magnitude,” Phelps said.
Phelps fought unsuccessfully in the House to pass concealed weapons legislation with a long set of restrictions, but he warned opponents of his legislation may regret they had not supported it when they had a chance. Now, he said, he “can’t see us” going forward with legislation that has as many restrictions as the bill that failed.
The prior bill largely limited carrying weapons to when a person was in a car, walking into a house and out on a sidewalk, and it specifically disallowed guns to be carried in churches, schools, gymnasiums, sporting events, bars and businesses, Phelps said.
He said no decision has been made on which restrictions in his previous legislation would be removed in a new bill.
Phelps warned that gun control groups who might want to appeal the issue to the U.S. Supreme Court might put strict laws in other states in jeopardy. He said he would consult with the National Rifle Association and the Illinois State Rifle Association.
A spokeswoman for Gov. Pat Quinn said the administration is reviewing the decision. The governor has previously said he was firmly opposed to any law allowing citizens to carry loaded guns in public. He threatened to veto previous attempts by lawmakers to pass legislation allowing concealed carry in Illinois.
Mayor Rahm Emanuel said through a spokesman that he was “disappointed with the court’s decision.” The city is reviewing the opinion and will work with others “to best protect the residents of Chicago and still meet constitutional restrictions,” Bill McCaffrey added.
“As the mayor has said all along, the City of Chicago is committed to maintaining the fullest degree of lawful handgun restrictions possible while still respecting the Second Amendment rights of law abiding citizens, because maintaining common-sense restrictions is an issue of public safety.”
Last March, Emanuel introduced a resolution passed by the City Council in opposition to state legislation that would have allowed people to carry firearms in public. Like former Mayor Richard Daley before him, Emanuel has long been a proponent of gun control.
Under Daley, the U.S. Supreme Court overturned Chicago’s handgun ban. In mid-2010, the council enacted new gun-control measures, even as many aldermen conceded it would do little to quell crime. Those regulations require that Chicago handgun owners obtain a permit after undergoing mandatory firearms training and register their weapons.
Reaction to the decision is rolling in from City Hall to the Capitol.
Ald. Howard Brookins, 21st, chairman of the City Council black caucus, welcomed the decision, saying allowing Chicagoans to carry concealed weapons would help level the playing field in neighborhoods where law-abiding citizens feel like they need firearms to protect themselves.
"Certain people will have a sense of safety and peace of mind in the ability to do it," Brookins said of conceal-carry. "I know that even people, for example, just trying to see that their loved ones get homes safely are in technical violation of all sorts of weapons violations. If you just walk out to your garage and see that your wife is coming in the house safely, and you happen to have your gun on you, you're in technical violation of our ordinance. So I would hope all these ordinances would be consolidated so there's one set of rules and people would know where the bright line is to what they can and cannot do with respect to carrying a weapon."
Brookins said he's not worried doing away with the state ban would lead to an increase in gun violence as more people walk the streets with weapons. "I think those people have a gun now, they've just been made criminals because they can't legally have it," Brookins said. "And I think the gangbangers and thugs are going to have a gun regardless."
Sen. Bill Brady, the Bloomington Republican who supported concealed-carry in his failed 2010 bid for governor, hailed the court’s ruling, saying it represents a “recognition that law-abiding citizens in Illinois have a right to defend and protect themselves, just as the citizens of the 49 other states do. In today’s society, men and women should have an opportunity to be as safe on the streets as they are in their own homes.”
Brady said he will work with fellow lawmakers to write a “responsible law that meets that goal as well as to provide for safe enforcement of it. I would hope that all Illinois officials use their energy to craft a concealed carry law with appropriate safeguards that will make Illinois the model for implementation of concealed carry laws, rather than using those resources to appeal today’s ruling.”
A gun control group urged Attorney General Madigan to appeal the decision to the U.S. Supreme Court.
“As the dissenting opinion points out, the two judges who threw out Illinois' law did not take account of the danger to the public from stray bullets, and they ignored the Illinois legislature's determination that carrying weapons has been shown to escalate violence,” said Lee Goodman, an organizer with the Stop Concealed Carry Coalition, in a statement. “The decision, contrary to fundamental legal principles, took away the people's right, through their state legislatures, to make laws to protect themselves that are relevant to the conditions present in each state.”
Tribune reporters John Byrne and Hal Dardick contributed.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...11_1_court-strikes-appeals-court-david-sigale
Last edited:
Re: Illinois Concealed Weapons Ban Tossed By Court
I posted a different story because it contains what must be a misquote:
I posted a different story because it contains what must be a misquote:
Ald. Howard Brookins, 21st, chairman of the City Council black caucus, welcomed the decision, saying allowing Chicagoans to carry concealed weapons would help level the playing field in neighborhoods where law-abiding citizens feel like they need firearms to protect themselves.
"Certain people will have a sense of safety and peace of mind in the ability to do it," Brookins said of conceal-carry. "I know that even people, for example, just trying to see that their loved ones get homes safely are in technical violation of all sorts of weapons violations. If you just walk out to your garage and see that your wife is coming in the house safely, and you happen to have your gun on you, you're in technical violation of our ordinance. So I would hope all these ordinances would be consolidated so there's one set of rules and people would know where the bright line is to what they can and cannot do with respect to carrying a weapon."
Brookins said he's not worried doing away with the state ban would lead to an increase in gun violence as more people walk the streets with weapons. "I think those people have a gun now, they've just been made criminals because they can't legally have it," Brookins said. "And I think the gangbangers and thugs are going to have a gun regardless.
"Certain people will have a sense of safety and peace of mind in the ability to do it," Brookins said of conceal-carry. "I know that even people, for example, just trying to see that their loved ones get homes safely are in technical violation of all sorts of weapons violations. If you just walk out to your garage and see that your wife is coming in the house safely, and you happen to have your gun on you, you're in technical violation of our ordinance. So I would hope all these ordinances would be consolidated so there's one set of rules and people would know where the bright line is to what they can and cannot do with respect to carrying a weapon."
Brookins said he's not worried doing away with the state ban would lead to an increase in gun violence as more people walk the streets with weapons. "I think those people have a gun now, they've just been made criminals because they can't legally have it," Brookins said. "And I think the gangbangers and thugs are going to have a gun regardless.
Overwhelmingly white, upper middle class school.
source: msn News
<SECTION sizcache05483221590439464="1" sizset="47"><ARTICLE class=articlecontent sizcache05483221590439464="2" sizset="22" data-aop="article"><HEADER>Multiple deaths reported in shooting at Conn. school
</HEADER>
Children are among the dead, according to reports by a local newspaper.
<SECTION>
NEWTOWN, Conn. — Some children were among those killed in a shooting at an elementary school in Newtown, Conn., on Friday, The Hartford Courant reported.
The number of victims is unclear. Many of the shootings took place in a kindergarten classroom, the paper reported.
An official who spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation is still under way told the Associated Press the gunman apparently had two guns. The school district remains on lockdown as police investigate the shootings. There are unconfirmed reports of two shooters, according to the paper.
LIVE: Updates from the shooting site
Some students were reportedly being treated for trauma. A dispatcher at the Newtown Volunteer Ambulance Corps said a teacher has been shot in the foot and taken to Danbury Hospital, but it's unclear if that's the only injury.
One child was carried from the school by a police officer, according to The Newtown Bee, apparently seriously wounded.
The school superintendent's office says the district has locked down schools as a preventive measure to ensure the safety of students and staff.
State police spokesman Lt. Paul Vance says they have a number of personnel on the scene to assist.
The Courant reported that police said a shooter was in the main office of the school shortly after 9:40 a.m.
Groups of students — some crying, some holding hands — were being escorted away from the school by their teachers, the Courant reported.
A staging area has been set up for students and their parents near the school.
Related: Tips for talking to kids about scary news
The district is made up of four elementary schools, two middle schools and one high school.
Newtown is in northern Fairfield County, about 45 miles southwest of Hartford and 80 miles northeast of New York City.
source: msn News
<SECTION sizcache05483221590439464="1" sizset="47"><ARTICLE class=articlecontent sizcache05483221590439464="2" sizset="22" data-aop="article"><HEADER>Multiple deaths reported in shooting at Conn. school
</HEADER>
Children are among the dead, according to reports by a local newspaper.
<SECTION>
NEWTOWN, Conn. — Some children were among those killed in a shooting at an elementary school in Newtown, Conn., on Friday, The Hartford Courant reported.
The number of victims is unclear. Many of the shootings took place in a kindergarten classroom, the paper reported.
An official who spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation is still under way told the Associated Press the gunman apparently had two guns. The school district remains on lockdown as police investigate the shootings. There are unconfirmed reports of two shooters, according to the paper.
LIVE: Updates from the shooting site
Some students were reportedly being treated for trauma. A dispatcher at the Newtown Volunteer Ambulance Corps said a teacher has been shot in the foot and taken to Danbury Hospital, but it's unclear if that's the only injury.
One child was carried from the school by a police officer, according to The Newtown Bee, apparently seriously wounded.
The school superintendent's office says the district has locked down schools as a preventive measure to ensure the safety of students and staff.
State police spokesman Lt. Paul Vance says they have a number of personnel on the scene to assist.
The Courant reported that police said a shooter was in the main office of the school shortly after 9:40 a.m.
Groups of students — some crying, some holding hands — were being escorted away from the school by their teachers, the Courant reported.
A staging area has been set up for students and their parents near the school.
Related: Tips for talking to kids about scary news
The district is made up of four elementary schools, two middle schools and one high school.
Newtown is in northern Fairfield County, about 45 miles southwest of Hartford and 80 miles northeast of New York City.
source: NBC News
26 KILLED IN CONN. MASSACRE
Updated at 2:37 p.m. ET: A teacher's son clad in black and carrying two handguns rampaged through a Connecticut elementary school Friday, killing 18 small children and seven adults, including his mother, in the nation’s second-worst school massacre, law enforcement officials said.
The gunman, identified as Ryan Lanza, 24, also was found dead at the scene, a federal law enforcement official said. Lanza's mother is a kindergarten teacher at the Newtown school, and it's inside her classroom where most of the casualties took place, according to WNBC's Jonathan Dienst.
Later, another member of Lanza's family was found shot to death at home in Newtown. A second person is in custody for a possible connection to Friday's slaughter.
Some young survivors -- all under age 10 -- described the terror of the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School, and a massive police response that included SWAT officers going room to room to search for victims.
"I was in the gym and I heard a loud, like seven loud booms, and the gym teachers told us to go in the corner, so we all huddled," a student told NBC Connecticut. "And I kept hearing these booming noises. And we all … started crying.
"All the gym teachers told us to go into the office where no one could find us," she added. "So then a police officer came in and told us to run outside. So we did and we came in the firehouse.”
Authorities in the small bedroom community 60 miles from New York City were alerted to the unfolding carnage by a 911 call around 9:30 a.m. and then reached out to state police and neighboring police departments for help.
Connecticut State Police Lt. Paul Vance said troopers who responded fanned out across the school and searched “every door, every crack, every crevice” of the building.
He said only that they found “several fatalities,” including the shooter, at the scene.
The 600-student school goes up to the fourth grade. The Hartford Courant, citing unnamed sources, said many of the victims were in a kindergarten classroom.
After the search was over, children and staff were escorted to a staging area outside
where they were reunited with panicked loved ones over the next few hours.
Brenda Lebinski, mother of a third-grader, called the scene “horrendous.”
“Everyone was in hysterics - parents, students. There were kids coming out of the school bloodied. I don't know if they were shot, but they were bloodied,'' she said, according to Reuters.
One parent picking up his 7-year-old son said the shooting was “the most terrifying moment a parent can imagine” and described the anguish of waiting to find out if his son was a victim and then running to his child.
“It was the greatest relief in my existence,” the father said. “I’m just happy that my kid’s OK.”
Bracing for a large influx of wounded, Danbury Hospital went on lockdown and cleared four trauma rooms. It received only three patients, including a teacher shot in the foot, the Associated Press reported.
The motive for the shooting was unknown, and the gunman’s name was not released.
Two 9mm handguns were recovered from the scene, an official told WNBC's Dienst. The Associated Press said one of the guns was a.223-caliber rifle.
The FBI was on the scene, assisting with the investigation. “There is a great deal of search warrant activity…in and out of the state,” Vance said, without giving specifics.
Connecticut Gov. Dannell Malloy was meeting with families near Sandy Hook.
“As you can imagine, the governor is horrified by what’s happened,” said aide Roy Occhiogrosso.
President Obama was told of the shooting at 10:30 a.m.
"I can just tell you that as a father, incidents like these weigh heavily on him, and I think everyone who has children and can imagine the enormous suffering that accompanies an event like this,” White House press secretary Jay Carney said.
The death toll is the highest from a school shooting in U.S. history since a gunman killed 32 people at Virginia Tech in 2007. At Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado, two teens killed 13 people and wounded 24 in 1999.
Parent Stephen Delgiadice, whose 8-year-old daughter was not hurt, said he never could have imagined such bloodshed in the quiet town, where the police force has only three detectives.
"It's alarming, especially in Newtown, Connecticut, which we always thought was the safest place in America," he told The Associated Press.
26 KILLED IN CONN. MASSACRE
Updated at 2:37 p.m. ET: A teacher's son clad in black and carrying two handguns rampaged through a Connecticut elementary school Friday, killing 18 small children and seven adults, including his mother, in the nation’s second-worst school massacre, law enforcement officials said.
The gunman, identified as Ryan Lanza, 24, also was found dead at the scene, a federal law enforcement official said. Lanza's mother is a kindergarten teacher at the Newtown school, and it's inside her classroom where most of the casualties took place, according to WNBC's Jonathan Dienst.
Later, another member of Lanza's family was found shot to death at home in Newtown. A second person is in custody for a possible connection to Friday's slaughter.
Some young survivors -- all under age 10 -- described the terror of the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School, and a massive police response that included SWAT officers going room to room to search for victims.
"I was in the gym and I heard a loud, like seven loud booms, and the gym teachers told us to go in the corner, so we all huddled," a student told NBC Connecticut. "And I kept hearing these booming noises. And we all … started crying.
"All the gym teachers told us to go into the office where no one could find us," she added. "So then a police officer came in and told us to run outside. So we did and we came in the firehouse.”
Authorities in the small bedroom community 60 miles from New York City were alerted to the unfolding carnage by a 911 call around 9:30 a.m. and then reached out to state police and neighboring police departments for help.
Connecticut State Police Lt. Paul Vance said troopers who responded fanned out across the school and searched “every door, every crack, every crevice” of the building.
He said only that they found “several fatalities,” including the shooter, at the scene.
The 600-student school goes up to the fourth grade. The Hartford Courant, citing unnamed sources, said many of the victims were in a kindergarten classroom.
After the search was over, children and staff were escorted to a staging area outside
where they were reunited with panicked loved ones over the next few hours.
Brenda Lebinski, mother of a third-grader, called the scene “horrendous.”
“Everyone was in hysterics - parents, students. There were kids coming out of the school bloodied. I don't know if they were shot, but they were bloodied,'' she said, according to Reuters.
One parent picking up his 7-year-old son said the shooting was “the most terrifying moment a parent can imagine” and described the anguish of waiting to find out if his son was a victim and then running to his child.
“It was the greatest relief in my existence,” the father said. “I’m just happy that my kid’s OK.”
Bracing for a large influx of wounded, Danbury Hospital went on lockdown and cleared four trauma rooms. It received only three patients, including a teacher shot in the foot, the Associated Press reported.
The motive for the shooting was unknown, and the gunman’s name was not released.
Two 9mm handguns were recovered from the scene, an official told WNBC's Dienst. The Associated Press said one of the guns was a.223-caliber rifle.
The FBI was on the scene, assisting with the investigation. “There is a great deal of search warrant activity…in and out of the state,” Vance said, without giving specifics.
Connecticut Gov. Dannell Malloy was meeting with families near Sandy Hook.
“As you can imagine, the governor is horrified by what’s happened,” said aide Roy Occhiogrosso.
President Obama was told of the shooting at 10:30 a.m.
"I can just tell you that as a father, incidents like these weigh heavily on him, and I think everyone who has children and can imagine the enormous suffering that accompanies an event like this,” White House press secretary Jay Carney said.
The death toll is the highest from a school shooting in U.S. history since a gunman killed 32 people at Virginia Tech in 2007. At Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado, two teens killed 13 people and wounded 24 in 1999.
Parent Stephen Delgiadice, whose 8-year-old daughter was not hurt, said he never could have imagined such bloodshed in the quiet town, where the police force has only three detectives.
"It's alarming, especially in Newtown, Connecticut, which we always thought was the safest place in America," he told The Associated Press.
Re: Political Satire
Never-Ending Gun Debate, Spins
___________________________
Hopefully, if anything good can come out of Friday’s rampage,
it’s change. Finally. “Silence is no longer acceptable. If you
can’t find the courage to stand up to the NRA after a class-
room of kindergarteners gets killed . . .” Arguing that the
solution to gun violence begins after someone has already
started popping off rounds is ridiculous. “If you reach a
point where a homicidal maniac comes into a kindergarten
classroom or a movie theater and opens fire, you’ve
already failed,” he says. “No American, no
kindergartener should have to go to a
school armed with a gun and body
armor to feel safe.”
- Ladd Everitt, director of communications,
Coalition to Stop Gun Violence
* * *
“People who are against guns say if people didn’t have guns, this wouldn’t
have happened, therefore we can’t let anybody have guns,” “The other
side is going to say if criminals are the only ones who have guns, criminals
become essentially a protected class.” The shootings certainly haven’t
led to tighter gun laws. "All that’s changed, broadly, in the era of
mass shootings, is more states passing laws allowing more people
to carry guns, on the theory that more guns in the hands of the
law-abiding makes us all safer." “If you take guns away from
honest citizens, it doesn’t reduce crime, because honest
citizens don’t commit crimes to begin with.”
- Edward Leddy, a professor of criminology
and sociology at Florida’s Saint Leo College
* * *
When the debate is pegged to a mass shooting,
the argument gets tweaked, a little:
As people who spray bullets at dozens of innocents are almost always
deemed “crazy” at some point, and with good reason, then, the logic
is gun-control laws don’t stop crazy people from doing crazy things.
“Everything these crazy people are doing is already against the law,
and sometimes punishable by death. They still do it. If you really
want to change a law to stop the next mass murderer, gun control
isn’t the appropriate focus.
Mental illness is."
- Randy Barnett, professor of legal theory,
Georgetown University.
Source
Never-Ending Gun Debate, Spins
___________________________
Hopefully, if anything good can come out of Friday’s rampage,
it’s change. Finally. “Silence is no longer acceptable. If you
can’t find the courage to stand up to the NRA after a class-
room of kindergarteners gets killed . . .” Arguing that the
solution to gun violence begins after someone has already
started popping off rounds is ridiculous. “If you reach a
point where a homicidal maniac comes into a kindergarten
classroom or a movie theater and opens fire, you’ve
already failed,” he says. “No American, no
kindergartener should have to go to a
school armed with a gun and body
armor to feel safe.”
- Ladd Everitt, director of communications,
Coalition to Stop Gun Violence
* * *
“People who are against guns say if people didn’t have guns, this wouldn’t
have happened, therefore we can’t let anybody have guns,” “The other
side is going to say if criminals are the only ones who have guns, criminals
become essentially a protected class.” The shootings certainly haven’t
led to tighter gun laws. "All that’s changed, broadly, in the era of
mass shootings, is more states passing laws allowing more people
to carry guns, on the theory that more guns in the hands of the
law-abiding makes us all safer." “If you take guns away from
honest citizens, it doesn’t reduce crime, because honest
citizens don’t commit crimes to begin with.”
- Edward Leddy, a professor of criminology
and sociology at Florida’s Saint Leo College
* * *
When the debate is pegged to a mass shooting,
the argument gets tweaked, a little:
As people who spray bullets at dozens of innocents are almost always
deemed “crazy” at some point, and with good reason, then, the logic
is gun-control laws don’t stop crazy people from doing crazy things.
“Everything these crazy people are doing is already against the law,
and sometimes punishable by death. They still do it. If you really
want to change a law to stop the next mass murderer, gun control
isn’t the appropriate focus.
Mental illness is."
- Randy Barnett, professor of legal theory,
Georgetown University.
Source
Re: Political Satire
What Can We Do to Stop Massacres?
Jeffrey Goldberg
The Atlantic
December 14, 2012
SOURCE
What Can We Do to Stop Massacres?
The Atlantic
December 14, 2012
- This a gun country. We are saturated with guns. There are as many as 300 million guns in circulation today (the majority owned legally, but many not) and more than 4 million new guns come onto the market each year. To talk about eradicating guns, especially given what the Supreme Court has said about the individual right to gun-ownership, is futile.
- There are, however, some gun control laws that could be strengthened. The so-called gun-show loophole (which is not a loophole at all -- 40 percent of all guns sold in America legally are sold without benefit of a federal background check) should be closed. Background checks are no panacea -- many of our country's recent mass-shooters had no previous criminal records, and had not been previously adjudicated mentally ill -- but they would certainly stop some people from buying weapons.
- We must find a way to make it more difficult for the non-adjudicated mentally ill to come into possession of weapons. This is crucially important, but very difficult, because it would require the cooperation of the medical community -- of psychiatrists, therapists, school counselors and the like -- and the privacy issues (among other issues) are enormous. But: It has to be made more difficult for sociopaths, psychopaths and the otherwise violently mentally-ill (who, in total, make up a small portion of the mentally ill population) to buy weapons.
- People should have the ability to defend themselves. Mass shootings take many lives in part because no one is firing back at the shooters. The shooters in recent massacres have had many minutes to complete their evil work, while their victims cower under desks or in closets. One response to the tragic reality that we are a gun-saturated country is to understand that law-abiding, well-trained, non-criminal, wholly sane citizens who are screened by the government have a role to play in their own self-defense, and in the defense of others (read The Atlantic article to see how one armed school administrator stopped a mass shooting in Pearl Mississippi). I don't know anything more than anyone else about the shooting in Connecticut at the moment, but it seems fairly obvious that there was no one at or near the school who could have tried to fight back.
SOURCE
No so called strict constitutionalists, gun nuts, libertarian or rabid 2nd amendment wacko postings since the Elementary school massacre.
The NRA has been rather silent this time too.
Hmmm, telling!
The NRA has been rather silent this time too.
Hmmm, telling!
The issue in recent shootings seems to be how to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill. But then again, in the case of the CT shooting, he murdered people with guns bought by someone else.
Rights and guns and severe injury and death. Complicated. And if we don't begin to tackle it, there will be more, rights and guns and severe injury and death.
I don't think they meet the age requirements for legal firearm ownership.
*Your state laws may vary
But they did meet the age requirement for death!
End the gun show loop hole and reinstate the Brady law!
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Was Eric Holder responsible?
Was the United Nations at fault?
Are we too lax with the blood thirsty NRA?
Was the United Nations at fault?
Are we too lax with the blood thirsty NRA?