(the Wire)who Was The Man Avon,stringer Or Marlo

[cranrab]

Seriously, when did you start watching the Wire? Season 3?

If you look back to Season 1, there's a scene where they have the "East vs. West" bball game (this is when the cops get their first glimpse at Avon). The Barksdale's rep/finance/coach the West team and Joe does the same for the East. It's clear that Joe is just as big as Avon, just he's on the East side.

you get that it's "clear that Joe is just as big as Avon" from them financing a community basketball game?

watch season 2 again, and you'll see which player was bigger.

 

[cranrab]

In fact, Avon had just as good a connect as Joe

nope. not as pure or as cheap.

String, who was running the show cuz Avon was locked up, realized that they'd likely loose the real estate if they continued with that weak product. That's when he decided to go to his rival (Joe) and strike a deal, which Avon opposed. That's how the Co-op was formed, cuz business-minded String realized that if all the dealers in the city went in for one massive product, they could all get it for cheaper.

correct summary. but we all see how that played out and eventually spelled their doom.

avon was correct to oppose all along. but the simps with no foresight (stringer and prop joe) were running the show and ran it into the ground. that's what happens when you don't have qualified people to rely upon.

 

[DaleMabry]

you get that it's "clear that Joe is just as big as Avon" from them financing a community basketball game?

watch season 2 again, and you'll see which player was bigger.

I dunno, I watched season 2 several times. Why do you dispute that Avon was as big as Joe?

 

[HALO2]

 

[cranrab]

Y'all keep saying Prop Joe didnt have no real Estate....YES HE DID.

let me make my position more clear so nobody takes it and runs to the extreme. prop joe had SOME real estate. prop joe didn't have barksdale real estate.

How could he have a connect like the Greeks and not have anywhere to sell that good shit that every hustla In Baltimore wanted ???? I mean gettin It staright off the boat.

as i acknowledged before, prop joe had the connect for superior product and at a cheaper price; but he couldn't obtain the cheaper price without the promise of being able to move a greater weight. no westside corners, no chance.

A real G Like Avon would have started a war over that product. Wouldnt gave joe 10 ft of west trap space.

which is eventually why prop joe got put down. prop joe gave up ALL HIS TRADE SECRETS to marlo, and when marlo had no more information to extract from prop joe, it was game over. prop joe wasn't smart AT ALL, because he let his fear control his decisions.

you can see how PUSSY prop joe was all through the final season. gave up the money laundering tip, gave up info from his grand jury connect, couldn't keep control of cheese, obtained the passport for marlo. why was he acting like marlo's bitch? always giving dude gifts like a little girl? because he was afraid of him. that doesn't sound like any kind of boss to me.

 

[DaleMabry]

Never mind Cranrab, I get you now. I agree Joe wasnt as big as Avon, in the sense that he had to coexist with a gang of other Eastside dealers--rather than go to war for supremacy, like Avon did on the Westside, Joe's tactic was to absorb his enemies by offering profits and peace--that worked on the old heads like Hungry Man but not on a young treacherous killer like Marlo, which is why Marlo flipped it on him and buried him. Joe stuck to his MO, and it cost him his life. Avon on the other hand was built like Marlo, so he understood and respected him.

 

[cranrab]

Why do you dispute that Avon was as big as Joe?

i dispute that avon was as big as joe, because my position is that avon was bigger than prop joe.

 

[DaleMabry]

Gotcha. See the post above yours, I agree.

 

[DaleMabry]

Slim Charles-He was a free-lancer,he puts himself in a position to stay alive and out of the way of danger.He doesn't have loyalty to anyone but himself but in certain situations he could be called on,by associets.I wouldn't even consider in the running for this debate because he had the chance to step in and rise to the top but clearly from his moves he didn't want it.

I agreed with all of your post except this.

Slim was completely loyal to whoever he worked for at the time. He could have given up Joe to Omar to save his life (when Omar wanted to know, at gunpoint with the barrel kissing Slim's dome, who had Butchie killed) but he risked a bullet standing up for his boss.

To me, that's what made Slim a good hired gun / soldier. Once he was with you, to quote Chris, he was WITH YOU.

 

[Rawness]

Y'all keep saying Prop Joe didnt have no real Estate....YES HE DID.

I think there's only one mis-educated brotha who thinks that

He Ran the whole East Side....
Stringers mistake was he made a deal for WEST SIDE corners for that good shit he couldnt get.
Why couldnt he get any of It ????.....Because he was a heroin dealer with a no-beef policy
He let soft ass niggas run his soilders off their corners cuz "he didnt want the police to come thru"


A real G Like Avon would have started a war over that product. Wouldnt gave joe 10 ft of west trap space. Marlo too maybe but he came In after String already went out like a soft ass bitch to a old Prop Joe. NO GANGSTER IN STRING @ ALL.

Stringer was in a tough spot, though. If he didn't get good product another crew woulda stepped up and took the towers. Remember, the Barksdales were weakened at this time due cops locking up several members. The Barksdales couldn't afford a war.

And String was gangster. He was just tryin to avoid the inevitable. Plus he made a key mistake in getting into a serious war with Omar. He realized that war with Omar wasn't worth so he wasn't tryin to make that mistake again.

Prop Joe was a peaceful, reasonable dude but dont get It twisted...He'd get you ghost if need be.

I wouldn't even call Joe peaceful. We just didn't see all the shit Joe did cuz the show was focused on the Barksdale's side of town.

 

[Rawness]

let me make my position more clear so nobody takes it and runs to the extreme. prop joe had SOME real estate. prop joe didn't have barksdale real estate.

What is "Barksdale real estate"? The towers? cuz That's all they had.

When the towers fell, they tried to move off into the corners and that's when they clashed with Marlo

 

[cranrab]

What is "Barksdale real estate"? The towers? cuz That's all they had.

When the towers fell, they tried to move off into the corners and that's when they clashed with Marlo

your timeline is SERIOUSLY off.

 

[Rawness]

nope. not as pure or as cheap.

How do you know this? What even makes you think this?

The Barksdales were doing just fine until Avon got pinched, and his connect cut him off. String never even THOUGHT about Joe's connect.

avon was correct to oppose all along. but the simps with no foresight (stringer and prop joe) were running the show and ran it into the ground. that's what happens when you don't have qualified people to rely upon.

First why are you linking Prop Joe w/ String? Prop Joe is not apart of the Barksdales. Marlo posed no threat to Prop Joe. He only cared about getting Marlo in the Co-Op when he needed to run them NY dudes off.

Secondly, If String would've warred with Marlo, the Barksdale's would've fell. They were weakened from the busts and in no position, muscle wise, to engage in war. Avon had to contract out a mercenary (Brother Munzone) just to keep Prop Joe's peoples out the towers, what makes you think he could've held his own against Marlo (who clearly had the strongest muscle in the city)?

 

[Rawness]

your timeline is SERIOUSLY off.

Answer the question, what real estate did the Barksdales have?

You think they're bigger than they are, cuz that's who the show focused on.

The Co-op showed a room full a muh'fuckas gettin it on Avon's level. Fat Face Rick, (who we know little to nothing about) was making million dollar deals with the city. He was def on Avon's level, but we never saw his holdings.

Another thing that suggest Joe was on Avon's level: Levi represented all of em (Avon, Joe and Rick)

 

[Le Dofant]

Avon, he was like a CEO, he delegated duties to Stringer.
Marlo had to micro-manage, that's not good. Avon had legitimate respect, not respect out of fear like Marlo. You gotta go Avon on street/business savvy.

 

[cranrab]

How do you know this? What even makes you think this?

again, watch season 2. it's clear that you have not. or that you watched without paying much attention.

First why are you linking Prop Joe w/ String?

go back to the beginning of the co-op. a knowledgeable watcher of the show wouldn't ask this question.

Avon had to contract out a mercenary (Brother Munzone) just to keep Prop Joe's peoples out the towers

only because stupid ass, weak minded stringer went out and made a deal with prop joe behind avon's back. avon didn't know his own man was making moves against him.

do you watch the episodes half-sleep or something?

 

[cranrab]

Answer the question, what real estate did the Barksdales have?

what question? aside from your ridiculous claim that avon only had the towers, he also had "the pit" and the corners. you must've watched the show while playing nintendo ds or texting or some shit. a shame, because you missed out on a great show.

The Co-op showed a room full a muh'fuckas gettin it on Avon's level. Fat Face Rick, (who we know little to nothing about) was making million dollar deals with the city. He was def on Avon's level, but we never saw his holdings.

sitting in an identical chair in the same room doesn't mean all the guests are on equal footing. pretty funny notion, though.

Another thing that suggest Joe was on Avon's level: Levi represented all of em (Avon, Joe and Rick)

for real? can't believe you actually wrote this one.

 

[Rawness]

* bunch of BS, but no answers*

Who taught you how to debate, Sara Palin?

only because stupid ass, weak minded stringer went out and made a deal with prop joe behind avon's back. avon didn't know his own man was making moves against him.

do you watch the episodes half-sleep or something?

Nice try, trying to make it seem like I didn't know String went behind his back. That's well known, but it's not the point.

The point is Avon though he was getting into it with a crew and his only recourse was to get Brother Munzone. He couldn't stand on his own. His "Chris" (Wee-bay) was locked up with him.

 

[uhsef]

Marlo was the coldest gangster bar none. No matter if you loved him or hated him he played the game and won. Marlo had a allstar inner circle everyone played they part unlike Avon inner circle IE Stringer Bell who did all kind of shady shit behind Avon back.
Marlo left the game without getting killed or going to jail and most importantly he got to keep his money.

 

[keone]

l


which is eventually why prop joe got put down. prop joe gave up ALL HIS TRADE SECRETS to marlo, and when marlo had no more information to extract from prop joe, it was game over. prop joe wasn't smart AT ALL, because he let his fear control his decisions.

.

 

[VI786273fu]

Fuck Stringer he was a b*tch to the full extent, snitching on his boy because of a bruise ego rflmao

 

[cranrab]

Who taught you how to debate, Sara Palin?

no, it's called not dignifying ridiculous questions with a response.

those remedial questions you posed don't deserve a reply from me because people who ACTUALLY watched the show are taking the time to discuss it.

come to the table prepared, instead of spouting off bullshit.

some of the shit you've put out here so far is like saying:

"i watch the brady bunch, but bobby was the oldest son"

or

"tattoo was on equal footing with mr. roarke"

or

"i liked csi new york better when gil grissom was in charge"

 

[Bluetooth]

Marlo was a ruthless killer..and was about getting money at all costs..dude had a crew of maniacal killers ready to do what he said at the drop of the dime..and they were effecient..and on top of that he got out the game with his life and his freedom..which is somethin neither Avon nor Stringer could say..

like someone above said..damn i miss that show lol...the series finale left alot of plotlines that couldve been expanded on..

Ok Avon Sentence Was Reduced Heavily afterhe set that guard up so actually i expected him home for the fnal season i think u have to say Avon won cause he got stringer hit without anyone knowing and even thou Marlo is gonna still be Marlo He cant continue he is too famous he need to goto a small town

 

[cranrab]

off topic, but 1 of the reasons the wire is 1 of my favorite shows is because the writers exposed and examined concepts that otherwise would not have ever reached segments of the viewer population.

without knowing it, some viewers have been giving a modern translation of a literary work 500 years old.

http://www.constitution.org/mac/prince00.htm

 

[keysersoze]

Yeah like at the basketball game, he was gettin on Prop Joe for wearing a suit, he was like "It's 80 degrees out here, why you got that hot ass suit on, you ain't Phil Jackson nigga, walkin' around with a clipboard and shit. I bet nothing ain't even on the clipboard"

FUCK I MISS THAT SHOW!

 

[LeroyDibiase]

What is "Barksdale real estate"? The towers? cuz That's all they had.

When the towers fell, they tried to move off into the corners and that's when they clashed with Marlo

The TOWERS were the PRIME real estate. Six 20-30 floor high towers full of dope fiends. And he had all the low rises. He didn't need the corners. That's like niggas selling hotdogs on a street corner, that nigga Avon had fuckin Sam's Club. Come on. They was clearing millions off the towers alone. Remember when D brought them the cut from his one LOWRISE, the shit was like 26K in ONE DAY. Imagine what the towers brought in.

 

[LeroyDibiase]

How do you know this? What even makes you think this?

The Barksdales were doing just fine until Avon got pinched, and his connect cut him off. String never even THOUGHT about Joe's connect.

First why are you linking Prop Joe w/ String? Prop Joe is not apart of the Barksdales. Marlo posed no threat to Prop Joe. He only cared about getting Marlo in the Co-Op when he needed to run them NY dudes off.

Nope. Prop had made a run at Marlo before. He failed. He's not stupid, he knows that Marlo had manifest destiny in mind when it came to the eastside.

Secondly, If String would've warred with Marlo, the Barksdale's would've fell. They were weakened from the busts and in no position, muscle wise, to engage in war. Avon had to contract out a mercenary (Brother Munzone) just to keep Prop Joe's peoples out the towers, what makes you think he could've held his own against Marlo (who clearly had the strongest muscle in the city)?

They did go to war with Marlo in Season 3. Mouzone was Season 2, come on B. They had Marlo BEAT, Slim sitting in the whip scope on Marlo with NO MUSCLE ready to lullaby that nigga, but he didn't get the go-ahead.

 

[LeroyDibiase]

Ok Avon Sentence Was Reduced Heavily afterhe set that guard up so actually i expected him home for the fnal season i think u have to say Avon won cause he got stringer hit without anyone knowing and even thou Marlo is gonna still be Marlo He cant continue he is too famous he need to goto a small town

Avon's sentence wasn't reduced, his parole hearing was just pushed up. And he already got out for that. When he got re-arrested, he was gonna have to serve the whole 7. So he woulda got out maybe in Season 7.

Omar knew, Mouzone knew. Omar would use that info to sully Avon's name if he was going after him.

 

[Rawness]

*More BS without substance*

Just give it up.

You've already backtracked from your original assesment that Joe did nothing and just magically had the best connect in town but had no corners.

And don't try to claim you ain't backtrack, You went from this:

prop joe made his money by skimming percentages off of other people's dirt.

his reluctance to put in work wasn't a sign of brilliance, it was a hallmark of how pussy he was.

while the real cats like avon were putting in work to make something happen, prop joe was the rodent looking for some crumbs to fall off the table.

prop joe was NOTHING like avon. avon set up the corners to distribute his product. prop joe didn't have shit but good product.

To this:

let me make my position more clear so nobody takes it and runs to the extreme. prop joe had SOME real estate. prop joe didn't have barksdale real estate.

Spare me the BS Palin-esque responses about "Desperate Housewives", the state of the economy, or whatever other irrelevant topic you have in mind. It's clear you are to proud to admit you were wrong.

 

[cranrab]

Nope. Prop had made a run at Marlo before. He failed. He's not stupid, he knows that Marlo had manifest destiny in mind when it came to the eastside.

They did go to war with Marlo in Season 3. Mouzone was Season 2, come on B. They had Marlo BEAT, Slim sitting in the whip scope on Marlo with NO MUSCLE ready to lullaby that nigga, but he didn't get the go-ahead.

LD,

you are far more charitable than i, at least where this thread is concerned.

why some people always want to pretend they know some shit, when there statements make it so plain that they don't know shit?

 

[Rawness]

The TOWERS were the PRIME real estate. Six 20-30 floor high towers full of dope fiends. And he had all the low rises. He didn't need the corners. That's like niggas selling hotdogs on a street corner, that nigga Avon had fuckin Sam's Club. Come on. They was clearing millions off the towers alone. Remember when D brought them the cut from his one LOWRISE, the shit was like 26K in ONE DAY. Imagine what the towers brought in.

The towers were def big, but no one knows what Joe was holding, cuz the show wasn't about his area. They def portrayed him as the eastide version of Avon.

In fact the OFFICIAL Wire website calls Joe "eastside narcotics kingpin" and says Avon is his "Westside Rival."

Don't make me define the word rival. Suffice to say, Joe WAS on Avon's level.
http://www.hbo.com/thewire/cast/characters/prop_joe.shtml

 

[cranrab]

Spare me the BS Palin-esque responses about "Desperate Housewives", the state of the economy, or whatever other irrelevant topic you have in mind. It's clear you are to proud to admit you were wrong.

yet another BGOL clown who clearly can't read.

if you think those sentences indicate a "backtrack" of ANY kind, you clearly have substandard reading skills.

if anything, there was a clarification, and even that should not have been necessary. i was being generous.

other contributors to this thread (who disagree with my other positions) have clearly outed that you don't have series facts straight, and aren't the most keen observer.

read the sentences you quoted again (use a dictionary if necessary), and then point out any contradiction or backtracking.

sad.

 

[34real]

The Co-op showed a room full a muh'fuckas gettin it on Avon's level. Fat Face Rick, (who we know little to nothing about) was making million dollar deals with the city. He was def on Avon's level, but we never saw his holdings.

I cant say what level those guys were all gettin it on but Im pretty sure they weren't on Avons or even Joe's level because they all had small roles and let me add that most of them were real life people that these characters based on in the show.

The co-op was a room full of older hustles who were in the presents of mainly two sharks,Avon than Marlo who didn't mind spilling blood.Those guys just wanted the product not the problems and the only way to get it was to sit down and broker with the key holder(prop joe).Prop Joe created the co-op basically for his own self serving needs,he could get the product he just needed to rally in the buyers and make sure that they understood that he could provide them the best product around and that no one would have the upper hand over no one else.Other than that,thats what kept him in the game and alive so long because he's not a threat to anyone and his nephew cheese was never going to go beyond the corner with the type of thinking he had.Exscuse me,Prop Joe did have the Lawyer and that Lawyer had connects to city officials but we never seen Prop Joe to atvantage of any of that,but we can assumed he did but also he could of been getting jerked.

 

[magnetic god]

marlo was the most accurate to the streets. in my opinion. and omar, just cause niggas like that usually have even the hardest, shook.

stringer was pussy..

 

[Rawness]

Nope. Prop had made a run at Marlo before. He failed. He's not stupid, he knows that Marlo had manifest destiny in mind when it came to the eastside.

Prop Joe wanted him in there, cuz string was trying to get him.

They did go to war with Marlo in Season 3. Mouzone was Season 2, come on B. They had Marlo BEAT, Slim sitting in the whip scope on Marlo with NO MUSCLE ready to lullaby that nigga, but he didn't get the go-ahead.

I know this. The Towers fell at the beginning of Season 3. They went to war with Marlo when he didn't want to take their package. This was all AFTER the Co-Op was in existence.

And they also had Omar in sight, unarmed, are you gonna try to convince me they could handle Omar, too?