The Problem With Reparations!!!

The scenario you painted depends on the goodwill of white people on that panel.

While that maybe a short term solution, you mean to tell me your children and grand-children will have to jump over the same barriers that you jumped over because you did NOT assist in breaking down not one row of brick?


Come on Bro.............


Do you think Rosa Parks should have been a nice little misses so that she could continue being "allowed" to sit at the back of the bus?


Come on...............

There is a call to service and the middle class is slipping........ I'm calling it as I see it.

We always call out the lower class, so i'm starting to call out the middle class.

It is the middles class that should be actively involved in local politics, jury duty as Leeeee quite rightly points out, getting involved with school boards, getting involved in municipal meetings etc.....

We know what the issues are on a policy level.......... why not get involved?

I have been to municipal meetings and we are way under-represented.

Maybe if we get more involved then through the same municipality, we can work with local precincts to help curb crime in our neighborhoods as well as work on economic initiatives.............


I'm just saying.......... those things don't make sense?

Well said Baba. You are correct about the middle class they are and have been overly concerned with their Beemers and tryin to get as close to white folks as they can. The blame for the conditions in the hoods of this country must to no small degree be placed at the door step of the Black middle class. Poor people in the 50's, 60's and 70's, with little education, were the foot soldiers that paved the way for their elevation and in return these muh fuckas fled the hood for the suburbs the first chance they got . THen had the audacity to turn & look over their shoulder and proclaim with jello puddin smeared faces that those left behind were "niggas who didn't WANT to make it".:angry: It is the role of students to force this issue and back the middle class into a corner..."fight by our side or confess that you side with the enemies of Black people."

Of course this nation should pay Reparations. The calculations of who owes what and how much have been done. There is no rational argument against Reparations. It is as natural as rainfall. Wrongs must be righted, those guilty ie committing the crime, benefiting from them or watching idly must pay....just as day follows night. The only crimes of this magnitude that go without any redress and to just be forgotten are those committed against Black people. :smh: Nah we aint havin it brah....
 
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Again, until you walk in my shoes... You have been to a municial meeting, but because you didn't see me there, I am not doing my part. Perhaps at that time, I was sitting on the corner talking to some young cats about pooling their money together to support their family. I am not knocking your actions but rather your judgements on everyone else. It is unfair for you to say that I am not breaking down barriers because I don't choose your exact methods. As far as my methods depending on the goodwill of the whites on the panel, I guess your municipal meetings is an all black affair. The problem is that we all have our own methods. Perhaps my short tem methods only get 20 black young men to chase a career and become succesful and have productive families. Is that not the goal?


Brother, stop being so touchy..........

I am speaking in general terms, I don't know you so I can't say what you do or what you don't do...........:cool:
 
Fuck college tuition. Fuck giving Black peole a check. Ther eis a large Black middle class that doesn't need this, but what the Black community really needs is a resturcturing of their communities. If there was political will then there could be money set aside so that people within these underpriveled communities can rebuild the communities themselves. This will give jobs to those who need it because despite whatever drug dealer or pimp says, I bet if they could get a legitimate job that earns a decent living they would take that over the dangers of the street game. Resources for education and summer work programs. Programs for parents that will encourage their participation in their children's education but all this is a little too socialist for the US. I just feel the problem starts within the community and our focus shouldn't be about those who try to make it "out" of the community while leaving those within the community behind. The only way we will thrive is to work within our communities to strenghten them and any reparations should go towards that instead of some check to an individual.
 
Brother, stop being so touchy..........

I am speaking in general terms, I don't know you so I can't say what you do or what you don't do...........:cool:

And I was speeking in general terms. When I said me, I meant any middle class black man/woman. Again, I am not mad at you for your passion on this subject. I do however feel it is unfair to judge Middle class blacks for dropping the ball.

RBGrider said:
..You are correct about the middle class they are and have been overly concerned with their Beemers and tryin to get as close to white folks as they can.

I have an ok gig and I drive a Mercedes. Perhaps me working hard is not to get close to white folks but to provide a good life for my family. My son sees this and provides for his family. The result is a chain of black men and women obtaining more and more of this financial success. I have no ill feelings towards any man. However, whenever you see a clean brother driving down the road in a nice car, pay him the same respect that we are all fighting for. Don't judge him because he doesn't follow your path.
 
MassaQ,

The question is inspiration. How do you inspire a large group of people to change their lifestyles? I agree that we need many more resources. I truly believe that we are a proud people and with the right opportunities would flourish. When I'm in Philly, I usually pull over a few youngsters and tell them that when they litter, it's just going to end up on their porch. They look at me like, "this old head cat is trippin" and walk away. I would like them to start changing their mindset in little steps. I do think that if they had the right goal to focus on, they would indeed change their views.
 
Just imagine if all philanthropists who are supporters of the Black community thought like this.

When I think of free college tuition, I think of all the brothers and sisters I knew who would of opted to go to college but couldn't afford it. So instead, they enlisted in the military as their last resort. But negative niggas could never relate to that particular thought.

Some posters should omit the word "Black" from their names.

Hey dummy do you know why the word BLACK is in my screen name? Let me inform you its that because the 1st car I had off the show room floor was Black. Stop reaching for shit you bullshit ass nigga. Nothing wrong with going to the military. I work with a lot of ex military guys and their making bank due to their military experience. I think its noble for a person to join the military knowing they could be killed.
 
.. Poor people in the 50's, 60's and 70's, with little education, were the foot soldiers that paved the way for their elevation and in return these muh fuckas fled the hood for the suburbs the first chance they got . THen had the audacity to turn & look over their shoulder and proclaim with jello puddin smeared faces that those left behind were "niggas who didn't WANT to make it".:angry: It is the role of students to force this issue and back the middle class into a corner..."fight by our side or confess that you side with the enemies of Black people."


Is this truly how some of you cats feel? Do you consider most suburban blacks sell outs? I see a good deal of criticism in both directions on this board. Are we too busy going at each other's necks instead of doing what we have to do?
 
MassaQ,

The question is inspiration. How do you inspire a large group of people to change their lifestyles? I agree that we need many more resources. I truly believe that we are a proud people and with the right opportunities would flourish. When I'm in Philly, I usually pull over a few youngsters and tell them that when they litter, it's just going to end up on their porch. They look at me like, "this old head cat is trippin" and walk away. I would like them to start changing their mindset in little steps. I do think that if they had the right goal to focus on, they would indeed change their views.

People aren't stupid. They know that the opportunities are limited. The only thing that will work for the masses is a social program like a New Deal program that will put people to work to rebuild their own communities.

If a man or woman is self sufficient then everything will fall into place. That is not to say that there won't be problems, but the only thing is to invest in people. Fuck this individual stuff. We have focused on that too long and it does nothing.

There is this NY congressman that has basically suggested a New Deal program to rebuild the poorer areas of NYC.
 
And I was speeking in general terms. When I said me, I meant any middle class black man/woman. Again, I am not mad at you for your passion on this subject. I do however feel it is unfair to judge Middle class blacks for dropping the ball.



I have an ok gig and I drive a Mercedes. Perhaps me working hard is not to get close to white folks but to provide a good life for my family. My son sees this and provides for his family. The result is a chain of black men and women obtaining more and more of this financial success. I have no ill feelings towards any man. However, whenever you see a clean brother driving down the road in a nice car, pay him the same respect that we are all fighting for. Don't judge him because he doesn't follow your path.



Is this truly how some of you cats feel? Do you consider most suburban blacks sell outs? I see a good deal of criticism in both directions on this board. Are we too busy going at each other's necks instead of doing what we have to do?

There are no absolutes Ahk..of course there are those among the middle class who contribute to the struggle but on a whole am I wrong? The problem is we now have almost 2 generations of middle class Black people many who don't know what it is to struggle, who don't know anything at all about the hood...what is was like when we ALL had to live there and collectively did a damn good job of making it a good community. They only know what the hood has become and have adopted negative, dismissive and stereotypical attitudes toward all who live there. I live and grew up in Harlem. I have 7 brothers and sisters. The space between me and my middle and oldest brothers and sisters is great and therefor from oldest to youngest each literally grew up in a different Harlem. My oldest sisters and brothers remember when you didn't have to lock your door, when Harlem was a striving community of hard working poor people, business owners and educated upwardly mobile folks and all worked together to make Harlem one of the greatest places to live and grow up. You see in their era Harlem was a good place and it was a good place for your family.

But I grew up in a different Harlem, the one after most of the business owners, educated, and upwardly mobile black folks left Harlem. The Harlem created on the heels of integration. The Harlem crippled by unemployment, shackled by poverty, crime and drugs. The Harlem pockmarked by burnt out buildings and blight...overrun by businesses owned by interlopers who had no love or concern for Harlem or the people that lived there. The Harlem where mothers HAD to work and therefore there children were left unsupervised. The Harlem in which impersonal "Projects" replaced the small tenements where you knew all your neighbors. So you see I know this history Ahk...my family lived in it and through it. I know the formula that makes and breaks communities and the class divide created in the late 70's and early 80's has had an overwhelmingly deleterious effect on our communities.

Interestingly and predictably the Harlem my children grow up in is not the one I grew up in...burnt out buildings have been replaced by high priced condos, co-ops and luxury homes...high paid professional whites are moving in. Damn what a great con-job these muh fuckas played on the Black middle class. :smh:

Wake up Black people. We will either make it together in this country or we will perish.
 
There are no absolutes Ahk..of course there are those among the middle class who contribute to the struggle but on a whole am I wrong?

I can only give you my perspective and you can only give me yours. It would be interesting to see how BGOL responds. We seem to have a mixture of middle class and non-middle class people on this board. Also, I would like to know what exactly is expected of middle class blacks. I think there may be a misconception as to availability of resources. When my child's school wasn't up to par, I went in to see the staff. When it was time to get involved, I registered to vote. When called to jury duty, I went. Municipal meetings are no problem either. These are all "classless" opportunities. Me going has helped my community. Those who "appear" to be not as fortunate must take these same actions in their community. Somone paved the way for me to be where I am. I had a desire and chose a path to get what I wanted. This path wasn't easy and had obstacles, but I had a goal and stuck to it. Can you say non-middle class blacks have done their part to choose a path? Some have and some haven't, but I give all the benefit of the doubt.
 
There are no absolutes Ahk..of course there are those among the middle class who contribute to the struggle but on a whole am I wrong? The problem is we now have almost 2 generations of middle class Black people many who don't know what it is to struggle, who don't know anything at all about the hood...what is was like when we ALL had to live there and collectively did a damn good job of making it a good community. They only know what the hood has become and have adopted negative, dismissive and stereotypical attitudes toward all who live there. I live and grew up in Harlem. I have 7 brothers and sisters. The space between me and my middle and oldest brothers and sisters is great and therefor from oldest to youngest each literally grew up in a different Harlem. My oldest sisters and brothers remember when you didn't have to lock your door, when Harlem was a striving community of hard working poor people, business owners and educated upwardly mobile folks and all worked together to make Harlem one of the greatest places to live and grow up. You see in their era Harlem was a good place and it was a good place for your family.

But I grew up in a different Harlem, the one after most of the business owners, educated, and upwardly mobile black folks left Harlem. The Harlem created on the heels of integration. The Harlem crippled by unemployment, shackled by poverty, crime and drugs. The Harlem pockmarked by burnt out buildings and blight...overrun by businesses owned by interlopers who had no love or concern for Harlem or the people that lived there. The Harlem where mothers HAD to work and therefore there children were left unsupervised. The Harlem in which impersonal "Projects" replaced the small tenements where you knew all your neighbors. So you see I know this history Ahk...my family lived in it and through it. I know the formula that makes and breaks communities and the class divide created in the late 70's and early 80's has had an overwhelmingly deleterious effect on our communities.

Interestingly and predictably the Harlem my children grow up in is not the one I grew up in...burnt out buildings have been replaced by high priced condos, co-ops and luxury homes...high paid professional whites are moving in. Damn what a great con-job these muh fuckas played on the Black middle class. :smh:

Wake up Black people. We will either make it together in this country or we will perish.

What the hell do you want the Black middle class to do? Give the lower black class money? The black middle class is is small and is poorer than the white middle class. Do you know what happens to someone that has a lot of wealth in a non wealth region? They are dispised and hated as the "guy that rubs in on how good he has it." He will get robbed and will be constantly asked for handouts being seen as nothing more than a ATM machine. The black middle class has its own unique struggles as we have to deal with whites more frequently and stick together. In order for black people to overcome they must first take care of their families no having children out of wedlock or having multiply baby mommas or daddys. If the lower black class keeps on trying to look for another class to save them then they are doomed already. The only person a man can truly depend on is himself and noone else.
 
hear what......... let's start with lynching and justice for these families since slavery is too far back right now, right?:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:



how about bring these people and the states that failed to provide security, liberty and the pursuit of happiness to justice, I'm sure some of them are alive:


300px-Lynching-of-lige-daniels.jpg

Postcard depicting the lynching of Lige Daniels, Center, Texas, USA, August 3, 1920.
The back reads, "This was made in the court yard in Center, Texas. He is a 16 year old Black boy. He killed Earl's grandma. She was Florence's mother. Give this to Bud. From Aunt Myrtle."
As discussed in the article, lynchings were often motivated by economics, or were retaliations for violations of Jim Crow etiquette, with false accusations of murder made in order to justify them.



300px-Lynching-of-jesse-washington.jpg

A postcard showing the burned body of Jesse Washington, Waco, Texas, 1916. Washington was a 17-year-old retarded farmhand who had confessed to raping and killing a white woman. He was castrated, mutilated, and burned alive by a cheering mob that included the mayor and the chief of police. An observer wrote that "Washington was beaten with shovels and bricks. . .[he] was castrated, and his ears were cut off. A tree supported the iron chain that lifted him above the fire. . . Wailing, the boy attempted to climb up the skillet hot chain. For this, the men cut off his fingers." This image is from a postcard, which said on the back, "This is the barbeque we had last night. My picture is to the left with a cross over it. Your son, Joe."



lynching.jpg


Lynching 1930

A mob of 10,000 whites took sledgehammers to the county jailhouse doors to get at these two young blacks accused of raping a white girl; the girl’s uncle saved the life of a third by proclaiming the man’s innocence. Although this was Marion, Ind., most of the nearly 5,000 lynchings documented between Reconstruction and the late 1960s were perpetrated in the South. (Hangings, beatings and mutilations were called the sentence of “Judge Lynch.”) Some lynching photos were made into postcards designed to boost white supremacy, but the tortured bodies and grotesquely happy crowds ended up revolting as many as they scared. Today the images remind us that we have not come as far from barbarity as we’d like to think.





event_omaha_courthouse_lynching.jpg

September of 1919, Will Brown, an African American man, was arrested and held in the Douglas County Courthouse. Largely due to the newspaper story, a mob gathered. Omaha Mayor Edward P. Smith was nearly lynched himself when he unsuccessfully attempted to disperse the crowd. Then the mob broke into the recently constructed building, tearing off Brown’s clothing as he was being dragged out. He was hanged on a nearby lamppost and then his body was riddled with bullets. Finally the body was burned. Members of the mob tied what remained of his charred body to an automobile, and dragged it around the streets of downtown Omaha.
Pieces of the rope used to lynch Brown were sold as souvenirs for 10 cents apiece.
Although some of the leaders of the lynching were placed on trial, most received suspended sentences, or were convicted of minor offenses such as destruction of public property.










lynch_01.jpg




http://www.nathanielturner.com/lynchingindex.htm






Laws

For most of the history of the United States, lynching was rarely prosecuted, and when it was, it was under state murder statutes. In one extraordinary example in 1907-1909, the Supreme Court tried its only criminal case in history, 203 U.S. 563 (U.S. v. Sheriff Shipp). Shipp was found guilty of criminal contempt for lynching Ed Johnson in Chattanooga.
Starting in 1909, over 200 bills were introduced to make lynching a federal crime, but they failed to pass. During the Roosevelt administration, the Civil Rights Section of the Justice Department tried, but failed, to prosecute lynchers under Reconstruction-era civil rights laws. The first successful federal prosecution of a lyncher for a civil rights violation was in 1946, and by that time, the era of lynchings as a common occurrence was over.

http://www.ngbiwm.com/Exhibits/lynching.htm

:smh:
 
Reparations are becoming less feasible and less likely. The Founding Fathers knew America was a experiment in democracy and slavery meant power would evolve. They knew the slave would one day rise up and overtake the masters. It happened in every society that used slavery. They knew they were passing the problem on to future generations, Jefferson in particular wrote about it he said "Black people wouldn't forget" and he said he couldn't blame us. Each proceeding generation of Whites passed the 'Black problem' to their children, today's whites have to deal with the prospect of a Black president. That means as more and more Blacks, Browns and Yellows move up the chances of reparations fade. We can't make America pay for slavery because slaves are starting to run the plantation now.
 
Reparations need to be 3 things:

1. Tax Exemption

2. Free healthcare

3. Our own casinos

:yes: Co-signage

4. free acess to institutions of higher learning for those willing to attend.

No property tax or sales tax. Since blacks already have a spending power already in the billions.
 
Reparations are becoming less feasible and less likely. The Founding Fathers knew America was a experiment in democracy and slavery meant power would evolve. They knew the slave would one day rise up and overtake the masters. It happened in every society that used slavery. They knew they were passing the problem on to future generations, Jefferson in particular wrote about it he said "Black people wouldn't forget" and he said he couldn't blame us. Each proceeding generation of Whites passed the 'Black problem' to their children, today's whites have to deal with the prospect of a Black president. That means as more and more Blacks, Browns and Yellows move up the chances of reparations fade. We can't make America pay for slavery because slaves are starting to run the plantation now.


Kind of making sense on one level.

However even though we make start to run it politically, economically there is still a gap that is widening instead of closing and that is where the real power lies.........

The Jews are the prototype...........
:cool:


Until we collectively close that economic gap, it wouldn't matter how many Obamas get elected.....
 
Speaking of the Jews maybe it would help us economically if we took a page from their book and started praticing Kabbalah.
 
This is the real problem where reparations is concerned. America is bankrupt. Reparations would go to anyone who is a descendent of a black slave. Do you have any idea how many white people in America are descendents of a black slave? There were so many black people passing for white in those days that a whole lot of white Americans have African-American slave Ancestry. Look at Sally Hemings. Sally was only 25% black. Her mother was half African and half white. Sally's father was a white man and her mother was only 50% black. She supposedly had children with Thomas Jefferson. Out of all of her children with Jefferson, only one lived as a black man. Two of them "escaped" from Jefferson and no one knows what happened to them. They looked white and lived as white people. There were many families like that. If every white person in America traced their roots, many of them would find out they had some African slave ancestry, hence they would all be entitled to reparations. America cannot pay the bills she has now. How in the hell is she ever going to be able to pay millions of people(black and white) reparations. It will never happen. :smh: :smh:
 
This is the real problem where reparations is concerned. America is bankrupt. Reparations would go to anyone who is a descendent of a black slave. Do you have any idea how many white people in America are descendents of a black slave? There were so many black people passing for white in those days that a whole lot of white Americans have African-American slave Ancestry. Look at Sally Hemings. Sally was only 25% black. Her mother was half African and half white. Sally's father was a white man and her mother was only 50% black. She supposedly had children with Thomas Jefferson. Out of all of her children with Jefferson, only one lived as a black man. Two of them "escaped" from Jefferson and no one knows what happened to them. They looked white and lived as white people. There were many families like that. If every white person in America traced their roots, many of them would find out they had some African slave ancestry, hence they would all be entitled to reparations. America cannot pay the bills she has now. How in the hell is she ever going to be able to pay millions of people(black and white) reparations. It will never happen. :smh: :smh:



So 700 billion on Iraq is ok to justify........

1 trillion lost through mortgage fraud so far this year........

But reparations would be too much?

Did anyone hear mention getting a cheque?

Some of the ideas here talk about free education, free healthcare etc......


:cool:
 
This is the real problem where reparations is concerned. America is bankrupt. Reparations would go to anyone who is a descendent of a black slave. Do you have any idea how many white people in America are descendents of a black slave? There were so many black people passing for white in those days that a whole lot of white Americans have African-American slave Ancestry. Look at Sally Hemings. Sally was only 25% black. Her mother was half African and half white. Sally's father was a white man and her mother was only 50% black. She supposedly had children with Thomas Jefferson. Out of all of her children with Jefferson, only one lived as a black man. Two of them "escaped" from Jefferson and no one knows what happened to them. They looked white and lived as white people. There were many families like that. If every white person in America traced their roots, many of them would find out they had some African slave ancestry, hence they would all be entitled to reparations. America cannot pay the bills she has now. How in the hell is she ever going to be able to pay millions of people(black and white) reparations. It will never happen. :smh: :smh:

So 700 billion on Iraq is ok to justify........

1 trillion lost through mortgage fraud so far this year........

But reparations would be too much?

Did anyone hear mention getting a cheque?

Some of the ideas here talk about free education, free healthcare etc......


:cool:
EXACTLY


Who is talking about the government anyway? If you've read any of the briefs on reparations then you know that the suit is against corporations whose involvement in slavery has been meticulously documented - and THEY are hardly bankrupt.
 
EXACTLY


Who is talking about the government anyway? If you've read any of the briefs on reparations then you know that the suit is against corporations whose involvement in slavery has been meticulously documented - and THEY are hardly bankrupt.

Yep, at one time, the government requested all private sectors to disclose all information going back to the 1800s for fear of slavery tides being revealed.

As a substitution for bank loans, Wachovia would lend out slaves to clients as collateral...read about it in Dr. Manning Marable's Living Black History.
 
Yep, at one time, the government requested all private sectors to disclose all information going back to the 1800s for fear of slavery tides being revealed.

As a substitution for bank loans, Wachovia would lend out slaves to clients as collateral...read about it in Dr. Manning Marable's Living Black History.

Thanks for that drop Bro.......



412W8KJEKBL._SL500_BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_OU01_AA240_SH20_.jpg



Living Black History: How Reimagining the African-American Past Can Remake America's Racial Future (Hardcover)
 
true that you cant begin to pay what is owed to african americans but they can still try this country was built on the backs of slaves.
 
Reparations need to be 3 things:

1. Tax Exemption

2. Free healthcare

3. Our own casinos

Wrong what we need is free or lowered higher education for blacks who maintain a certain gpa and free heath care for those going to school..

There reason why I said certain gpa, is because if not you going to see nothing but a bunch of proffesional students who go to school for the money not o learn..

The reason why i said no on the Casinos because how is that supposed to work? Unlike the Indians, we do not live on reservations.

As far as free health care, do you want a bunch of fat ass out of shape mother fuckers who eat wrong, drink excessive, never exerciser, getting into shoot outs, lowering the over all quality of health services?
Shit black, white, red, purple, the United States has a problem with obesity and out of shape motherfuckers and to no surprise they tend to get sick more and when they do somebody (usually the tax payers) has to pay for it..
I met a fat chick who at the wrong shit, I told her that she should change her diet, and she said 'Shit this is my body and who are you to tell me what to do.' This is true except when her ass catches diabetes or suffer from renal failure sh is going to ask me and other tax payer to pay her bill. Sure you my think that there is enough money in the system to pay for it, but if you multiply her by tens of thousands, then you should be able to see the real problem..

As far as tax exemption well lowered taxes for students is ok, but for people not doing shit, well they should pay for services just like everyone else..

Most of the shit that you listed, will make us more dependent on the government, my goal is to get us as independent as possible, and the only way I see possible is for use to be producers of goods and services in a global market... And that can be done by education and wise spending.
All that other shit is nothing but welfare 2.0 and is designed to make us lazier, and less productive..
 
Its not really about reparations. no one is really getting reparations per se. its mainly those that get access to capital and those that dont.

they give it to the fuckin jews til this very day..



And Indians....

Mexicans ( i.e. the people that are more so mutt Spaniards than they are Native American) will be next to get major access to capital via exploiting the little Native American blood that they have inside them. And theyll claim Native American all while identifying with White folks....lol.

Blacks folks just need to learn how to separate business from pleasure. We need to stop letting superficial shit distract us. We're stuck in bs comfort zones and we need to be debriefed on how to take care of business.
 
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