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*****The Offical CAVS vs CELTICS thread*******

eewwll said:
Let me ask you a question. Im serious as well and this is not a loaded question

Do you think it is a coincidence that Jordan and Pippen didnt win anything until Phil Jackson got there. Also, do you think it is a coincidence that Shaq and Kobe didnt win anything until Jackson get there to coach the team.

Also, do you think that there was a reason that Kobe ran out Jackson...got another coach and literally begged Jackson to come back and now they are competing for titles every year.

Other coaches had these great players and couldnt do anything with them. Something has got to be said for the way that Jackson not only coaches a game and he good x and o support with this staff, but also how he is able to manage huge superstar ego and get them to play within his system and philosophy.
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Eewwll, I can't argue against this. You have a very good point and it makes sense.

I guess what I was asking was a question causality. Did MJ and Pippen make Phil a HOF coach or did Phil make MJ and Pip great? And I know, MJ was special from jump even before Phil but he had no rings. My guess is that it was a synergy thing. Things of this nature typically are.

As for the Jerry Sloan, Stockton and Malone triad, perhaps it just happened to occur at the wrong time no thanks to the MJ era. :dunno:
 
sean69 said:
Eewwll, I can't argue against this. You have a very good point and it makes sense.

I guess what I was asking was a question causality. Did MJ and Pippen make Phil a HOF coach or did Phil make MJ and Pip great? And I know, MJ was special from jump even before Phil but he had no rings. My guess is that it was a synergy thing. Things of this nature typically are.

As for the Jerry Sloan, Stockton and Malone triad, perhaps it just happened to occur at the wrong time no thanks to the MJ era. :dunno:
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I get what you are saying..I wasnt even disagreeing... but I think it often gets overlooked. Ive always thought coaching was overlooked but I think this Cleveland shit makes it ever more obvious how important a great coach is to a team. I dont want to scapegoat Brown... but he doesnt seem to be getting the best out his players.

I think they both contributed to the greatness of the other...I just question if another coach would have been as successful with those teams. I wonder if another coach would have had the confidence and mental tenacity to FORCE the triple-post on Jordan and make him a great post player because he initial fought the change and didnt really get the value of the triple-post offense and many coaches may have folded under the weight of Jordan...

I also question how many coaches would have been able to manage the Kobe-Shaq debacles...

Because look at the team that lost to Detroit in the finals in 2004 (im a pistons can by the way)....that was a title team and I think at that point..by the time the finals got around, even Jackson had lost control over the team and it showed with their play...complete clash of egos in that series... Kobe and Shaq were on two completely different pages.
 
eewwll said:
I get what you are saying..I wasnt even disagreeing... but I think it often gets overlooked. Ive always thought coaching was overlooked but I think this Cleveland shit makes it ever more obvious how important a great coach is to a team. I dont want to scapegoat Brown... but he doesnt seem to be getting the best out his players.

I think they both contributed to the greatness of the other...I just question if another coach would have been as successful with those teams. I wonder if another coach would have had the confidence and mental tenacity to FORCE the triple-post on Jordan and make him a great post player because he initial fought the change and didnt really get the value of the triple-post offense and many coaches may have folded under the weight of Jordan...

I also question how many coaches would have been able to manage the Kobe-Shaq debacles...

Because look at the team that lost to Detroit in the finals in 2004 (im a pistons can by the way)....that was a title team and I think at that point..by the time the finals got around, even Jackson had lost control over the team and it showed with their play...complete clash of egos in that series... Kobe and Shaq were on two completely different pages.
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The art of managing multiple egos. Very good point.
 
eewwll said:
Lebron being a scorer was not your premise. Your premise was that Lebron only shooting 14 shots was indicative of him tanking. Considering that Lebron has been dominant in cames with 20 and less shots..even 15 where he has had a triple double, him shooting 14 shots is not indicative of him tanking.

You used Kobe against the Suns. Considering Kobe is PRIMARILY a scorer... him only taking 14 shots has a much more detrimental effect on his team considering he doesnt contribute as much on the boards and he is not the distributor that Lebron is.

Kobe deciding not to shoot against the Suns does not equate to Lebron shooting 15 shots as Lebron can be dominant while also scoring less than 20 points..and has done that several times this season.

The two situations dont equate. Did they both play poorly...yes... but that is where the similarities end.
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I don't think he was tanking, but I think it was a situation where he couldn't hit his shots, and they got down so much, and his own teammates couldn't even step up.


It was way beyond him being able to do anything singlehandedly, and he'd almost have to not push it further and conserve energy for thenext game. I fully expect him to come out guns blazing. That thing Kobe did, I don't like it, but against the Suns it was almost necessary. Management in the nba has a habit of resting on it's laurels. If they feel a team doesn't need much, they won't do much.

If LA beat the Suns back then, it would indicate to management that they have the right pieces, and they just need to tinker the lineup a little - when they needed a complete roster overhaul. They'd eventually get beat, badly in those playoffs.
 
As far as coaches go, i'll say this and this alone.

There's a reason Phil gets paid 12 million a year. if it were as simple as just having the players they would have never brought him back. Period.
 
Nobody said:
As far as coaches go, i'll say this and this alone.

There's a reason Phil gets paid 12 million a year. if it were as simple as just having the players they would have never brought him back. Period.
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Yep. That is why I :smh::smh: @ cats who say that Phil has just been lucky to have great players and he just sits on the bench and does nothing. How the hell do you get lucky 10 got-damn times :lol:
 
Nobody said:
I don't think he was tanking, but I think it was a situation where he couldn't hit his shots, and they got down so much, and his own teammates couldn't even step up.


It was way beyond him being able to do anything singlehandedly, and he'd almost have to not push it further and conserve energy for thenext game. I fully expect him to come out guns blazing. That thing Kobe did, I don't like it, but against the Suns it was almost necessary. Management in the nba has a habit of resting on it's laurels. If they feel a team doesn't need much, they won't do much.

If LA beat the Suns back then, it would indicate to management that they have the right pieces, and they just need to tinker the lineup a little - when they needed a complete roster overhaul. They'd eventually get beat, badly in those playoffs.
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:cool:

I get what you are saying now. I thought you were saying that he came out and deliberately wasnt pulling the trigger..

and with the other Kobe thing...with him bitching in the media and shit... fuck it...it might have all sounded bitch-made when he did it...but he lit a fire under management and they went out and got Gasol...so mission accomplished.
 
eewwll said:
:cool:

I get what you are saying now. I thought you were saying that he came out and deliberately wasnt pulling the trigger..

and with the other Kobe thing...with him bitching in the media and shit... fuck it...it might have all sounded bitch-made when he did it...but he lit a fire under management and they went out and got Gasol...so mission accomplished.
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I'm only giving people shit cuz they do it when the shoe is on the other foot. I'm a player's fan. I don't partake in that petty bullshit a lot of guys get involved in, like not liking a player because they look a certain way, or talk a certain way, or walk a certain way. The same way I felt about Kobe back in 04-07 I feel about Lebron now.

Amazing player, just doesn't have the team to get it done right now.

the only players I don't like, are KG because he became an even bigger dick ON the court. and Shaq because he plays cool then burns every bridge to the ground. but I can appreciate the skill set and play of BOTH players.
 
Nobody said:
I'm only giving people shit cuz they do it when the shoe is on the other foot. I'm a player's fan. I don't partake in that petty bullshit a lot of guys get involved in, like not liking a player because they look a certain way, or talk a certain way, or walk a certain way. The same way I felt about Kobe back in 04-07 I feel about Lebron now.

Amazing player, just doesn't have the team to get it done right now.

the only players I don't like, are KG because he became an even bigger dick ON the court. and Shaq because he plays cool then burns every bridge to the ground. but I can appreciate the skill set and play of BOTH players.
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I used to always give Shaq the benefit of the doubt actually in all those personal disputes with other player... but I think the grudge he has with Howard over the superman shit is mad childish.
 
eewwll said:
I used to always give Shaq the benefit of the doubt actually in all those personal disputes with other player... but I think the grudge he has with Howard over the superman shit is mad childish.
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Though few on BGOL will agree with me...

...having been a Lakers fan since the year Kobe and Shaq joined the team; and after hearing all the shit Shaq said about Kobe over the year(e.g.Calling him out in a team meeting saying that he couldn't play with him anymore), and did(Slapping Kobe during a practice)...

...I was hardly surprised that Kobe brought up Shaq's name to the cops. :lol::lol::lol::lol: Though it may not seem that way now, Kobe and Shaq hated the ground each other walked on.

I'm talking true hate.

Kobe was CONSTANTLY taking the insults from Shaq, until he reached out to Jim Gray. That rant to Jim Gray reportedly made Shaq want to attack Kobe. They said Shaq's people had to calm him down, but...

...I mean .. it's like ... Shaq had been going at this cat in the media for years, but the moment Kobe returned the favor, he was ready to rip his head off.

I think it's easy to put all the blame on Kobe, because their is something about Kobe that causes people who don't even like basketball to hate him; but Shaq isn't exactly blameless.

I am in no way saying Kobe didn't deserve the criticism, because he was playing his own game back during those years; but I think Shaq should have kept a lot of their issues in house.
 
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eewwll said:
I used to always give Shaq the benefit of the doubt actually in all those personal disputes with other player... but I think the grudge he has with Howard over the superman shit is mad childish.
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It was the Wade thing that put it over the top for me.
 
Yo RoadRage nothing wrong with being wrong.

Hell I owned up and admitted I was wrong about this series. You can come back and post here too. :lol::lol:

Seriously though I did not see this series going this way.

I see what Eewwll is talking about on BGOL if I see a basketball thread I expect to see these names.

Eewwll D Town Chemistry Beei Cranrab MIC (I think I know he is a nugget fan.) That one Bobcat fan and Dude who been rolling with Orlando since year one. I know I'm leaving some folks out but those are the people I know will be in a basketball thread.

Now I notice since Lebron game I'm seeing people all of sudden diss dude and laughing. Same when Kobe lost to Boston two years back.

That's a bandwagon jumper someone waiting for someone to fail then come hahahha.

I admit I was wrong thought Cavs had this lock down. WRONG. I have no problem admitting I was wrong and Beeii was right.
 
killa kadafi191 said:
Yo RoadRage nothing wrong with being wrong.

Hell I owned up and admitted I was wrong about this series. You can come back and post here too. :lol::lol:

Seriously though I did not see this series going this way.

I see what Eewwll is talking about on BGOL if I see a basketball thread I expect to see these names.

Eewwll D Town Chemistry Beei Cranrab MIC (I think I know he is a nugget fan.) That one Bobcat fan and Dude who been rolling with Orlando since year one. I know I'm leaving some folks out but those are the people I know will be in a basketball thread.

Now I notice since Lebron game I'm seeing people all of sudden diss dude and laughing. Same when Kobe lost to Boston two years back.

That's a bandwagon jumper someone waiting for someone to fail then come hahahha.

I admit I was wrong thought Cavs had this lock down. WRONG. I have no problem admitting I was wrong and Beeii was right.
Click to expand...

Don't jinx me yet!!!!!:lol::lol::lol::lol:
with all the media coverage being down on Bron Bron he may come out and try to score 60 and take it to game 7:smh:
This happened to the celtics last year with Orlando up 3-2 going back to boston and losing both games:smh:
Celtics need to end it in game six:yes:
Everybody is talking about "no killer instinct" "no sense of urgency"
the dude is a beast and can score at anytime that is what makes him, Kobe and wade a step above everyone else.
 
Yea Eewwll last year Shaq sent an email to NBA players with Wade's head on top of female saying he was a bitch.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203550604574360980472540364.html

After Lakers coach Phil Jackson knocked his work ethic while speaking to reporters in 2006, Mr. O'Neal announced that Pat Riley was his new favorite coach. In 2007, Miami Heat guard Dwyane Wade, a teammate at the time, told reporters Mr. O'Neal was lacking in the motivation department. Mr. O'Neal recently sent around a photo of Mr. Wade's head pasted on a woman's body. (Mr. Wade did not return calls for comment).
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Beeiii said:
Don't jinx me yet!!!!!:lol::lol::lol::lol:
with all the media coverage being down on Bron Bron he may come out and try to score 60 and take it to game 7:smh:
This happened to the celtics last year with Orlando up 3-2 going back to boston and losing both games:smh:
Celtics need to end it in game six:yes:
Everybody is talking about "no killer instinct" "no sense of urgency"
the dude is a beast and can score at anytime that is what makes him, Kobe and wade a step above everyone else.
Click to expand...

And if he doesnt come out like that it will make him look like a complete bitch ass nigga

Nigga better come out with reckless ass abandon :lol:
 
Beeiii said:
Don't jinx me yet!!!!!:lol::lol::lol::lol:
with all the media coverage being down on Bron Bron he may come out and try to score 60 and take it to game 7:smh:
This happened to the celtics last year with Orlando up 3-2 going back to boston and losing both games:smh:
Celtics need to end it in game six:yes:
Everybody is talking about "no killer instinct" "no sense of urgency"
the dude is a beast and can score at anytime that is what makes him, Kobe and wade a step above everyone else.
Click to expand...

c/s

Boston needs to close this series out before we get the "King" fishing gear out :lol:
 
Beeiii said:
Don't jinx me yet!!!!!:lol::lol::lol::lol:
with all the media coverage being down on Bron Bron he may come out and try to score 60 and take it to game 7:smh:
This happened to the celtics last year with Orlando up 3-2 going back to boston and losing both games:smh:
Celtics need to end it in game six:yes:
Everybody is talking about "no killer instinct" "no sense of urgency"
the dude is a beast and can score at anytime that is what makes him, Kobe and wade a step above everyone else.
Click to expand...

D-TOWN REP said:
And if he doesnt come out like that it will make him look like a complete bitch ass nigga

Nigga better come out with reckless ass abandon :lol:
Click to expand...

:lol::lol::lol:

If he comes out with the same aggression that he uses with his momma, then they would beat the celtics.
080513_Lebron-James.aim640.jpg
 
killa kadafi191 said:
Yo RoadRage nothing wrong with being wrong.

Hell I owned up and admitted I was wrong about this series. You can come back and post here too. :lol::lol:

Seriously though I did not see this series going this way.

I see what Eewwll is talking about on BGOL if I see a basketball thread I expect to see these names.

Eewwll D Town Chemistry Beei Cranrab MIC (I think I know he is a nugget fan.) That one Bobcat fan and Dude who been rolling with Orlando since year one. I know I'm leaving some folks out but those are the people I know will be in a basketball thread.

Now I notice since Lebron game I'm seeing people all of sudden diss dude and laughing. Same when Kobe lost to Boston two years back.

That's a bandwagon jumper someone waiting for someone to fail then come hahahha.

I admit I was wrong thought Cavs had this lock down. WRONG. I have no problem admitting I was wrong and Beeii was right.
Click to expand...
I back online after moving, no biggie just a game, you got to take it as well as you can give it. I never said that any team was unbeatable, I even listed the Cavs weaknesses, I never thought the Celtics had enough in the tank to exploit them.
But hey the game is not over, lets see how the cards fall.
 
Bron Bron:"Lets wrap this game up. I got a plane to catch and a contract to sign in the Apple. Plus I got $200k on the celtics."
300px-Lebron_James_New_York_City_2009_DS.jpg
 
RoadRage said:
I back online after moving, no biggie just a game, you got to take it as well as you can give it. I never said that any team was unbeatable, I even listed the Cavs weaknesses, I never thought the Celtics had enough in the tank to exploit them.
But hey the game is not over, lets see how the cards fall.
Click to expand...



:dance::dance::dance:
 
HOW IN THE FUCK DO U PUT SHAQ ON KG... :angry::angry::angry:
SOMEONE IN THE CAVS FRONT OFFICE NEEDS TO COME TO THE BENCH AND SLAP MIKE BROWN ON THE TOP OF HIS BEAN ASS HEAD FOR THAT ONE... :angry::angry::angry:
 
if the celts loose tonight its going to be because of the refs calling fouls on one of the big three,putting them in foul trouble.


possibly might be heading this way
 
LeBron looks weak and off balanced, he is going for more layups than dunks, and that is not like him.
 

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