All of the "bootstrap" and "personal responsibility" sentiment sounds good, but does it really work, or is it a myth that you can really become wealthy and well-off completely on your own without some type of government aid?
a person can make a good living even become a millionaire without the government but the chances of doing it are very slim.
But doesn't this beg the question- is this because the government has insinuated itself too much into the business atmosphere ? or because without government, accumulation of wealth is impossible ?
Man, "Bootstraps" means both, governmental assistance and non-governmental assistance. But most of all, picking oneself up by the bootstraps means "Self Assistance" ... taking responsibility to change one's condition through what ever legal means necessary. At least, thats what I was taught -- and what I teach my own.nittie said:... if Blacks keep laboring under the misconception of pulling ones' self up by the bootstraps we will never get any real money.
QueEx said:Man, "Bootstraps" means both, governmental assistance and non-governmental assistance. But most of all, picking oneself up by the bootstraps means "Self Assistance" ... taking responsibility to change one's condition through what ever legal means necessary. At least, thats what I was taught -- and what I teach my own.
While the quest may be to become wealthy; the goal must be to at least live comfortably -- comfortably being a term for each to define for himself.
QueEx
Obviously, we have different definitions, I don't know who "US" is -- and I don't see where my understanding of the term has anything to do with reminding or not reminding whites of anything. Its real simple, take responsibility for self -- despite the circumstances. I see us having gotten away from the concept and maybe that has something to do with our lack of general success ??
Bruh, I don't want to get into another of those senseless arguments with you, but you seem to be talking more out of frustration than anything else. This may be an unpopular statement but our problem is less, as a people, running into the glass ceiling than the bottom rung roaming about in nowhere.nittie said:Us is black people who have done everything we were taught to do but still run into the glass ceiling and see our people fall into poverty. Taking responsibility for self is a noble concept but we are not responible for our plight.
Vit, I respect your thoughts a lot. Owens is right when he talks about education and about ones "Will" to get into the mainstream. On the other hand, he is cheating words when he says "you can't pick yourself up by your bootstraps without having bootstraps to begin with." Bootstraps are nothing ... or relatively nothing. Boothstraps are about striving to obtain an education. You don't have it before you get it. Bootstraps are about striving for more -- you don't have more when you have less. Its trying to get THERE.vitrifier said:I went to a seminar where J. Owens Smith spoke on that phrase "Picking ourselves up by our bootstraps" and he broke it down. Basicallly, <u>you can't pick yourself up by your bootstraps without having bootstraps to begin with</u>. He explained that Bootstraps are education, and the knowhow to get into the economic mainstream. Much of this is provided by governmental programs that are necessary to provide means for economic growth.
If you mean bootstraps are something the "government" gives, then I think you are wrong. In my estimation, bootstraps comes from within -- not from without. You don't have to give a man anything for him to want something. Even if you give him something, it means nothing if he doesn't want to preserve it. Either way, it has to be within him to want and to preserve. Thems bootstraps. I think its the responsibility of government to help, but it lies within a man to pursue, with or without help.Part of the problem is that the U.S. is forgetful when it comes to providing bootstraps, those same bootstraps that were given to every other group of immigrants that came here, and were provided until those groups entered the economic mainstream.
I have no argument what that statement.When it comes to us, we have Affirmative Action, but that has not been as full-scale and helpful as it should have, and now it's being stripped down because the same people that got the New Deal and the Homestead Act, and GI Bill are saying we need to get our own bootstraps.
Bruh, I don't want to get into another of those senseless arguments with you, but you seem to be talking more out of frustration than anything else. This may be an unpopular statement but our problem is less, as a people, running into the glass ceiling than the bottom rung roaming about in nowhere.
Those who move up the corporate/business ladder have one set of problems, moving on up (they aren't really falling into poverty as you say); but US at the bottom rungs of the ladder (thats where the majority of US are) don't have that problem. The lower rungs haven't and aren't doing all the things we were taught to do. We were taught FAMILY -- but that doesn't seem to be a real priority with many at that lower rung. We were taught "Self Reliance" but that seems less of a priority.
We can blame others for our plight and a lot of that blame is well placed. But we are responsible for US and the mistakes we've made and the effort we haven't made are OURS. Taking responsibility for US and SELF RELIANCE are not just noble concepts -- THEY ARE OuR RESPONSIBILITY. If we don't take care of self, nobody else will. If we're not responsible for us, who is: white folks ??? Please.
Someone once told me "No one ever takes care of your shit like you do."If we're not responsible for us, who is: white folks ??? Please.
<font size="3">And what does it take from them within to act ???</font size>nittie said:... I can give brothas the url to my website, give them their own franchise and show them how they can make 50 grand next year but I can't do it if they refuse to see the obvious ...
vitrifier said:Que,
I disagree with the idea that "bootstraps" are from within ... <font size="3">[BUT]</font size> ... For whatever reason, they don't strive to excel, just get by.
... just read your own words ...I still think the gov't should provide means to achieve (as in education and training programs for those who can use it, and protection of workers rights) <font size="4">but they won't get us anywhere unless that drive is present.</font size>
QueEx said:<font size="3">And what does it take from them within to act ???</font size>
QueEx
In other words, they're not picking themselves up by their bootstraps -- they're not seizing opportunity and making something out of it. You keep arguing something different ... but you keep making my point. LOLnittie said:Basically they should have the same opinion as me when it comes to making money ... but that's easier said than done ...
.The answer to my question (And what does it take from them within to act) was simply -> self determination ... bootstraps
QueEx said:I never said nor do I believe that ALL it takes is self determination homie. In fact, it takes a whole lot more -- like a good break (which can be chancey as hell). But, it takes self determination to move, to act, to seize opportunity.
That old adage: you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink is synonymous with what we've been discussing. There has to be a WILL to take advantage of whatever options that exist.
QueEx