Superteams usually underperform - will Durant's Warriors be different?

[RoadRage]

Getting back to the original subject let me break it down for the non ballers...

1- There are only five guys on offense..

2- Your point is usually the guy up top, in this case its Curry... His job is to stretch the defense, by either shooting fast if he finds space, if not he usually waits for a pick from Green that can lead to a mismatch that he can capitalize off of..

3- After the pick Steph has three options
a-Shoot the long shot due to space
b-pass it back to Green who should be rolling to the rim..
c-attack the rim himself..

4- Now if either Green on Steph attacks they can either take the shot, kick it back out to Thompson who will also be moving or they can kick it out to the spotter shooter..

Now the spotter shooter is a guy who camps in one spot who gets the ball as soon as the guy cutting to the rim see's his man collapsing in the paint helping out..
This guy usually does not move because he is more of an outlet guy, or a guy the man driving to the hoop knows where he is at even with out seeing him..
Some teams like the Cavs have to spotter shooters, one at each corner, allowing someone like LeBron to make the no look pass, knowing the is there..
The reason I say this is that the Warriors usually use Thompson as the floater, or a guy who moves off the ball for his shot... This leaves only one player to be the spot shooter Durant... You cannot have two guys moving around as the floater with Green and Thompson also in motion, it would be too hard knowing where your guys are...

Back to my point, if you have Durant in that Spot shooter roll, he is going to have very few touches and will be forced to take shots on the fly with no rhythm.....

Do the math, there are only 5 players one has to be the spot shooter, its not going to be Steph, not Green, not Thompson or the center/pf so who is it going to be???
of course they could get K.D. to play center and see how well he is able to bang up against bigger more psychical players, this is an interesting option, but a roll he has yet to show he is able to do....

 

[RoadRage]

Durrant still going to get 20+ and his % will go up. They can't leave anybody open and there is only so much rotation on D you can do. Going to have to grind these ninjas to dust to try and beat them.

Nobody leave the spotter open, then often peel off of him knowing he is usually stuck at one spot, but thats not leaving him open, because as soon as the ball is passed to him his defender knows exactly where he is and closes in... Usually they play the passing lane not the defender so their job is to play free safety collapsing as soon as they determined the defender is committed to going to the hole, but taking off the passing lane just in case he don't but if he don manage to make the pass their job is to close out hard to alter the shot..

 

[Spectrum]

Soo the question remains why didn't other teams do this if Barnes was so bad???

Man. What the fuck are you talking about?

 

[RoadRage]

Trust me a spot catch and shoot, shooter is a very difficult roll to play that not everyone has the mind set to pull off.. I think its better for teams to get specialist like Vinny Johnson, Robert Horry or the Steve Kerrs of the world to do it rather than try to convert a superstar like your Bosh, Love, and Durant's...

 

[RoadRage]

Man. What the fuck are you talking about?

I am asking why didn't other teams peel off of Barnes not guarding him if he was so bad??

 

[Spectrum]

Whats ironic is the title of the thread is entitle why superteams usually under perform, and all I have done was explain why they do, yet the op is arguing with me not this time..

You don't even know what the fuck you're arguing from post to post.

How about this? Let's put so money behind your most egregious propositions.

You're arguing that Durant will shoot a lower percentage this year.

You've argued that Durant will score 17ppg.
You've argued the Warriors will now be less successful at pick and roll scenarios now

Let's put some money on that dumb shit.

The article isn't arguing what you're arguing. The article is arguing that the Warriors aren't going to win 73 games or more this season...which I don't think they will either. They've argued that superteams often underperform. However, there are cases where they haven't (such as the Bulls example).

You haven't argued with superteams underperform. You're saying that a pure shooting is not going to shoot so well because he's getting better shots. You're saying the warriors won't run pick and rolls as well because they've picked up a better ball handler and shooter You a wild boy

 

[Spectrum]

I am asking why didn't other teams peel off of Barnes not guarding him if he was so bad??

That's an irrelevant question. We're talking about the finals and we're comparing this situationally to a prospective rematch. The question it could the Cavs deploy the same strategy with Durant out on the court... obviously not.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

I am asking why didn't other teams peel off of Barnes not guarding him if he was so bad??

they lost him regularly that's why he was able to get 10 shots a game. if he knew how to dribble he probably could've gotten about 14.

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

You don't even know what the fuck you're arguing from post to post.

How about this? Let's put so money behind your most egregious propositions.

You're arguing that Durant will shoot a lower percentage this year.

You've argued that Durant will score 17ppg.
You've argued the Warriors will now be less successful at pick and roll scenarios now

Let's put some money on that dumb shit.

The article isn't arguing what you're arguing. The article is arguing that the Warriors aren't going to win 73 games or more this season...which I don't think they will either. They've argued that superteams often underperform. However, there are cases where they haven't (such as the Bulls example).

You haven't argued with superteams underperform. You're saying that a pure shooting is not going to shoot so well because he's getting better shots. You're saying the warriors won't run pick and rolls as well because they've picked up a better ball handler and shooter You a wild boy

i don't think they are going to try and get 73 wins. this season they were trying to do everything. everyone called everything they did a fluke.
steph mvp
regular season
getting out the west
and the playoffs.
they tried to do it all.
steph got the mvp
they won the regular season
they got out of the west
went to 7 games and came up short of winning it all.
NOW they don't have to prove shit about winning 73 games
or steph being mvp
or making it out of the west. its all about a ring.

 

[RoadRage]

That's an irrelevant question. We're talking about the finals and we're comparing this situationally to a prospective rematch. The question it could the Cavs deploy the same strategy with Durant out on the court... obviously not.

Its relevant when you claim that the CAvs won by leaving Barnes alone playing five on four... I said bullshit, Barnes was the spot shooter and JR or who ever was guarding him knew where he would be and when he got the ball was able to close out very well and disrupt his shot...
This is one of the thing both Shumpert and JR Smith are very good at doing...
But instead of giving credit to the defense folks knee jerk reaction here is to blame the player..

 

[RoadRage]

they lost him regularly that's why he was able to get 10 shots a game. if he knew how to dribble he probably could've gotten about 14.

You can peel off of the spot shooter just as long as you play the passing lane, good at reading the guy eyes who is attacking the basket and/or if you are good at closing out the shot and JR and Shumpert are as good as you get at doing that... Another stat you will never see in video game basketball or fantasy sports..

 

[RoadRage]

But it goes both ways, the Warriors also have very good close out defenders this is why JR and Love wasn't hitting those open jumpers they was hitting vs the other teams in the playoffs...

 

[Spectrum]

i don't think they are going to try and get 73 wins. this season they were trying to do everything. everyone called everything they did a fluke.
g.

I don't think they should have even gone for it last season, but we don't need to revisit that argument. I think they'll win mid 67-68 games and pump the breaks at the end of the season to prepare for the playoffs.

 

[Spectrum]

You can peel off of the spot shooter js..

You can't peel off pure shooters unless you're defending a team that doesn't pass the ball. Da fuck are you talking about.

You ain't never helping to leave Durant wide open on shots

That shit worked because Barnes is a burger that shot 18 percent on mainly uncontested shots. You'll lose by double digits every game if you're strategy involved leaving Durant that wide open.

You'll beat this team by slowing the same down, limiting their possessions, and (if you have the ability) exploiting the lack of size in the paint.... not that shit you're talking about like peeling off Durant

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

I don't think they should have even gone for it last season, but we don't need to revisit that argument. I think they'll win mid 67-68 games and pump the breaks at the end of the season to prepare for the playoffs.

it was worth it imo. they just played bad. wasn't cause they went for 73.
curry got injured on cac slime and draymond and klay were lights out.
barnes only played 60 something games due to injury anyway ezili missed a quarter of the season too.

nobody notices when warriors get injured though.

 

[RoadRage]

You can't peel off pure shooters unless you're defending a team that doesn't pass the ball. Da fuck are you talking about.

You ain't never helping to leave Durant wide open on shots

That shit worked because Barnes is a burger that shot 18 percent on mainly uncontested shots. You'll lose by double digits every game if you're strategy involved leaving Durant that wide open.

You'll beat this team by slowing the same down, limiting their possessions, and (if you have the ability) exploiting the lack of size in the paint.... not that shit you're talking about like peeling off Durant

When I say peel off I am talking about peeling off a few feet so you can have a head start once you know the guy with the ball is committed to driving,, a good defender can do this, play the passing lane and still have time to get back to contest the shot...
Durant is a good shooter but not that good of a catch and shoot guy, he depends on rhythm and is not the type you can burry in a corner with very little interaction..
We all watched him throw up some horrible bricks when he is off rhythm so lets not make him out to be Ray Allen from the three...

 

[Spectrum]

it was worth it imo. they just played bad. wasn't cause they went for 73.
curry got injured on cac slime and draymond and klay were lights out.
barnes only played 60 something games due to injury anyway ezili missed a quarter of the season too.

nobody notices when warriors get injured though.

Bogut and Iggy too(back issues).. yall had lots of injuries down the stretch.. Bogut was a bit of a fluke but yall definitely had injury issues down the stretch..lots of those games down the stretch were well contested OT games and shit..that was a real grind to end the season

 

[Spectrum]

When I say peel off I am talking about peeling off a few feet so you can have a head start once you know the guy with the ball is committed to ..

You can't peel off on one of the games best shooters of all time who also happens to be 7 fucking feet tall

I can't believe your strategy is giving Kevin fucking Durant uncontested shots where he can square up.. you a wild boy Road Rage.

 

[RoadRage]

I actually think that Thompson would be a much better spot up shooter, than Durant he has a better mindset for it and is a purer shooter. However I don't see Durant and his long lanky ass popping off the curl hitting those three pointers on the move like Thompson does...

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

I actually think that Thompson would be a much better spot up shooter, than Durant he has a better mindset for it and is a purer shooter. However I don't see Durant and his long lanky ass popping off the curl hitting those three pointers on the move like Thompson does...

the 3rd best perimeter defender is going to be on klay thompson.
marinate on that for a moment.

 

[Spectrum]

..
Durant is a good shooter but not that good of a catch and shoot guy,.

Road Rage is trolling us right now

 

[RoadRage]

You can't peel off on one of the games best shooters of all time who also happens to be 7 fucking feet tall

I can't believe your strategy is giving Kevin fucking Durant uncontested shots where he can square up.. you a wild boy Road Rage.

Close out shots are not unccontested shots, they are often some of the most difficult shots to make due to your defender closing in hard at you and you having so little time to decide weather to try to pump fake, and drive or take the shot... This is why so many stars often fail at this role...

 

[Spectrum]

I actually think that Thompson would be a much better spot up shooter, than Durant he has a better mindset for it and is a purer shooter. However I don't see Durant and his long lanky ass popping off the curl hitting those three pointers on the move like Thompson does...

Go to NBA.com and then go to /stats. Run a chart on catch and shoot and then look at Durant's numbers and then look and Thompsons.

 

[Spectrum]

Close out shots are not unccontested shots, .

I don't think you know what contested shots are. How many players can "contest" shots closing out on a 7 foot shooter with a 7 and a half foot wingspan and a 34 inch vertical

 

[RoadRage]

I don't think you know what contested shots are. How many players can "contest" shots closing out on a 7 foot shooter with a 7 and a half foot wingspan and a 34 inch vertical

The same way a smaller guy challenges his shot in the first place, by disrupting the ball transfer and trying to get him to rush his shot.. I'd much rather have Durant taking 15 of those shots than Curry, Thompson and even Green killing you with the shots they take...

 

[Spectrum]

The same way a smaller guy challenges his shot in the first place, by disrupting the ball transfer and trying to get him to rush his shot.. I'd much rather have Durant taking 15 of those shots than Curry, Thompson and even Green killing you with the shots they take...

Nope. We're discussing catch and shoots. You're not "peeling off" Durant and contesting his shots when the ball swings back. If he misses, he misses. But it's not because of any close out. He's too tall, long, and good of a pure shooter and has too quick of a release to even try to defend him that way. You can't even defend Klay or little ass Curry that way, you definitely ain't defending Durant that way on close outs.

 

[Spectrum]

The same way a smaller guy challenges his shot in the first place, by disrupting the ball transfer and trying to get him to rush his shot.. I'd much rather have Durant taking 15 of those shots than Curry, Thompson and even Green killing you with the shots they take...

Stop trolling... now, you even prefer Green to take more shots than fucking Kevin Durant from catch and shoots... lmbao!!!!!!!!! you a wild boy, RR

 

[RoadRage]

Nope. We're discussing catch and shoots. You're not "peeling off" Durant and contesting his shots when the ball swings back. If he misses, he misses. But it's not because of any close out. He's too tall, long, and good of a pure shooter and has too quick of a release to even try to defend him that way. You can't even defend Klay or little ass Curry that way, you definitely ain't defending Durant that way on close outs.

My point is that his talents would be wasted if they do indeed use him as a spot up shooter taking 13 or so shots a game.... Mainly due to the fact that he is a rhythm shooter who needs the ball in his hands shooting when he feels hot not as a dump off bail out guy..

 

[Spectrum]

My point is that his talents would be wasted if they do indeed use him as a spot up shooter taking 13 or so shots a game.... Mainly due to the fact that he is a rhythm shooter who needs the ball in his hands shooting when he feels hot not as a dump off bail out guy..

He's not going to ONLY be a spot up shooter. Why would he when he's one of the games greatest scorers of all time. He'll just get MORE catch and shoot opportunities than he's ever gotten in OKC. He'll get more screen and roll opportunities than he ever got in OKC.

And you keep saying he needs the ball in his hands at all times when that shit is patently fucking false.

You keep saying he's a rhythm shooter and that's patently false. Pure shooters like Curry, Klay, Allen, Bird, Durant, etc do NOT depend on volume to get into a rhythm. That's what streaky shooters like A.I., Kobe, etc do. Stop saying that dumb shit.

 

[RoadRage]

He's not going to ONLY be a spot up shooter. Why would he when he's one of the games greatest scorers of all time.

And you keep saying he needs the ball in his hands at all times when that shit is patently fucking false.

You keep saying he's a rhythm shooter and that's patently false. Pure shooters like Curry, Klay, Allen, Bird, Durant, etc do NOT depend on volume to get into a rhythm. That's what streaky shooters like A.I., Kobe, etc do. Stop saying that dumb shit.

Well then he and Thompson will be taking turns, and if I were playing against them I wouldn't mind that trade off...

 

[largebillsonlyplease]

Well then he and Thompson will be taking turns, and if I were playing against them I wouldn't mind that trade off...

yes you would lol

 

[Spectrum]

Well then he and Thompson will be taking turns, and if I were playing against them I wouldn't mind that trade off...

LOL.. don't nobody want Klay and Durant taking turns on catch and shoot 3. You might want Klay and Barnes... but not Klay and Durant

 

[RoadRage]

yes you would lol

I think in many ways Thompson is almost as good of an pure shooter as Curry, and Green is the key to them getting to the next level, so as an opponent of the Warriors I would welcome all of them taking less shots even if its the great Durant taking the shots instead...

 

[RoadRage]

LOL.. don't nobody want Klay and Durant taking turns on catch and shoot 3. You might want Klay and Barnes... but not Klay and Durant

As long as they cannot shoot at the same time its going to be either or... And being that Durant shoot for a lower % the more he shoots the better off you are going to be..

 

[BrownTurd]

Getting back to the original subject let me break it down for the non ballers...

1- There are only five guys on offense..

2- Your point is usually the guy up top, in this case its Curry... His job is to stretch the defense, by either shooting fast if he finds space, if not he usually waits for a pick from Green that can lead to a mismatch that he can capitalize off of..

3- After the pick Steph has three options
a-Shoot the long shot due to space
b-pass it back to Green who should be rolling to the rim..
c-attack the rim himself..

4- Now if either Green on Steph attacks they can either take the shot, kick it back out to Thompson who will also be moving or they can kick it out to the spotter shooter..

Now the spotter shooter is a guy who camps in one spot who gets the ball as soon as the guy cutting to the rim see's his man collapsing in the paint helping out..
This guy usually does not move because he is more of an outlet guy, or a guy the man driving to the hoop knows where he is at even with out seeing him..
Some teams like the Cavs have to spotter shooters, one at each corner, allowing someone like LeBron to make the no look pass, knowing the is there..
The reason I say this is that the Warriors usually use Thompson as the floater, or a guy who moves off the ball for his shot... This leaves only one player to be the spot shooter Durant... You cannot have two guys moving around as the floater with Green and Thompson also in motion, it would be too hard knowing where your guys are...

Back to my point, if you have Durant in that Spot shooter roll, he is going to have very few touches and will be forced to take shots on the fly with no rhythm.....

Do the math, there are only 5 players one has to be the spot shooter, its not going to be Steph, not Green, not Thompson or the center/pf so who is it going to be???
of course they could get K.D. to play center and see how well he is able to bang up against bigger more psychical players, this is an interesting option, but a roll he has yet to show he is able to do....

I guess he does not realize that Curry does not start the offense all the time nor bring it up court.