they said the same thing when apple came out with the Colorful iMacs and iTunes.
Sony's Plans to Take on Apple's iTunes
- Thread starter Jagi
- Start date
they said the same thing when apple came out with the Colorful iMacs and iTunes.
^^^^Beat me to it^^^^
Help us out.. what is Windows 7 and Netbooks doing to Apple?
Apple has a lot sweet deals with colleges and universities which is a MAJOR part of their business. Windows 7 alone is forcing these organizations to renew their deals because Microsoft is slowly pulling the plug on XP.
9 times out of 10 those deals are going to result in new hardware due to the fact there is more bang for the buck. The hardware is going to affect the laptops and with netbooks being so cheap it is going to be an up hill battle trying to justify the expense of a macbook let alone Apple's netbook(macbook air).
Netbooks are getting more and more floor space at the elecronics stores. This is going to sway public opinion. Remember that the idea behind the netbook was to be a cheap computer solution available for everyone.
Microsoft and the PC manufactures are not trying to go after Apple. It's just the tides have changed and these are currents that Apple can't swim in. The writing is on the wall fellaz.
The macbook air is their netbook.
In the high end this is somewhat true but even those customers have both.
I'll give you the rush on PS3 for blue ray which is another example of Sony pushing the wrong technoloy but windows 7 can run on a netbook. I'm running 7 right now on athlon xp 1800(released 2001) with 512megs of ram.
No, Windows 7 is a legitimate upgrade to XP, thus being a legitimate reason to upgrade the hardware which is cutting into Apple's Market and history is repeating it's self. lol.
And when did i say or insinuate that i did? The point is neither has the average Mac buyer/owner. Those purchasing a Mac for high end professional use (whatever the fuck that is) are in the minority. The average Apple customer is buying that Mac for casual personal or business use. Apparently you dont even know my fucking argument. STFU!
amajorfucup said:
While I don't have any experience with windows 7, I don't think that a netbook is a comparable alternative to even the lowest end macbook.. someone buying a netbook is primarily concerned with price and portability. Most people buying a macbook are concerned with ease of use, reliability and design asthetic. (imo). These are not the same market segment, and as such should not be compared. It would be like saying that my $1 double cheesburger is a comparable alternative to a steak, and that because it's one third the price and have sold millions of burgers, mcdonalds is cutting into the steakhouse's market.
How do folks claim that mac users are sheep, when macs are what, 7% of the market? so the people using the other 93% aren't sheep?
I guess I don't know as much about the average mac owner as you do, but I do see ads that are directed to people who are concerned about the reliability and security of their machines and about using their machines creatively and intuitively- and you cannot argue the fact that the lions share of professional video/ audio editing and layout/ print production work is being done on macs.
not even. The upcoming (rumored) tablet will be their "netbook" but it could blow up the category like the ipod did for mp3 players, or the iphone did for smartphones- so I will say it will be apple's answer to the netbook.brace said:
I have made this point before, and I'm not talking to anyone in particular (this time) but I don't understand how people simultaneously call macs overpriced/lemming bait and rail on about how they buy the Hennesey WHITE instead of the regular, or the patek instead of the timex, the polo instead of the le tigre' (lol) but you get the point. cats floss about how they have the best of everything but when it comes to buying computers, all the sudden folks want to get cheap....
Anyway, I agree that it's too late for sony to get in the music game, but the digital distribution of movies and games is their market to be lost.
People forget this for reasons I do not know & think that all Sony can do is come out with PS1, PS2, PS3, PSP, etc... If Sony gets their head out of their ass it can be done successfully.
Your argument was that Mac doesn't cater to the high end market when in fact it does. Apple produces superior hardware and software, PERIOD. Superior = High End, underdig?
NO.. it is not. A silly statement like this discredits your entire post.
Nah bro. My "argument" was that netbooks and windows 7 appeal to those in the market for PC's as well as Mac's. I then used myself as an example. The catering to high end comment was just a comment i made to express my disagreement with jagi's statement to that effect. I admitted that their is a highend clientele there but that the "average" Mac owner, i.e. most owners, are not some highend individual (highend as in high income or financially wealthy/well off). I then told jagi that that the nebooks have had a (slight) effect on the Apple market. He disagreed.
Jagi. Here's more proof:
http://www.appleinsider.com/article..._pc_market_slips_to_7_4_as_sales_decline.html
This is opinionated and non-substantiated commentary mixed in with horrendous analogies. You even admit you havent tried Windows 7. And if you dont think there are netbooks that can compare with the lowest end macbook, then you are pretty ignorant or far in denial. Its definately a comparable alternative. Didnt say they were as good or better. But a comparable alternative? Hell yes.
Yes a significant percentage of Mac owners are sheep. Its a niche product and by definition thats gonna happen. And no i wont argue about your print production, editing layup etc.. I dont care about that. But you would be silly to think that even a significant fraction of mac owners are utilizing those capabilities. They are in the minority my man. Again, the average Mac owner aint doing all that shit. That 7% is a hodge podge or highend clientele, those using it for professional use, those merely wanting to appear cool (sheep), ipod/itune junkies. And guess what, most if not all of them own a windows machine.
Yea. I was riding with my man until he made that statement. That doesnt negate the other valid points he made though.
Sony could be the end of optical media after all that money that they spent on Blu Ray
Talk about your epic Fails. Pound for pound dollar for dollar im not sure i can think of one. I mean these guys are still pouring cash in trying to win over the consumer, who apparently doesnt give a fuck.Sony could be the end of optical media after all that money that they spent on Blu Ray
Apple ipod will not be beaten by a jumble of products. The ipod beat the walkman because of ease of use and iTunes. The PSP will never be a force in the portable music market. It's game machine and nobody buy's them to watch movies or listen to music exclusively. PSN is irrelevant to the MP3 market since the price of admission is a PS3or PSP. In most most households the PS3 is sharing console space with a XBOX360 or Wii and their is probably an ipod of some type in the house already. I would give the new Zune a better chance. Also in the same space you have iphones Androids and other smartphones all of which will be non sony devices. This cloud service thing is nice for Sony customers but it's not enough to choose a Sony product over it's competitors. Especially front runners like iPod. That ship has sailed. Sony needs to be figuring out how they are going to pay off debt incurred by pushing Blu-Ray at the cost of everything else in their company and how they will compensate over the next ten years considering packed media will never be as domiant as it was before the HD era. How will they make a profit longterm from PSN considering they don't charge customers. If licensing fees from Blu-ray Movie sales don't meet projection in the next 5 yrs how will they make up that revenue.
Well said Flawless. And with each of those who purchase a windows based computer, ten's of thousands of tech related jobs are created here in the states for those creating hardware and software for Windows based computers. Not to mention those groups and organizations developing Linux based environments. It's good deal all around. Now for closed environments, the picture takes on a two America's or a have's vs have not look.
-VG
I tried to let it go but you dragged me back in....
My statement would be silly if it weren't for the fact that this topic has been an on going argument for the last YEAR. I didn't make this up myself and I'm on the side that believes Macbook Air is a netbook.
[FLASH]http://www.youtube.com/v/y7_25REA47s&hl=en_US&fs=1&[/FLASH]
http://theappleblog.com/2009/07/01/macbook-air-is-the-apple-netbook-end-of-story/
http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=16911
Now the truth of matter is that the current crop of netbooks are really macbook air clones. They have the same chipset making them siblings.
YOU CAN NOT SAY A COMPUTER IS A TOTALLY DIFFERENT MACHINE WHEN THEY HAVE THE SAME CHIPSET.
Sure, macbook air has the top of the line chipset in the Intel 965 family. Sure macbook air has the top of the line in components. Sure macbook air has a lot of kool bells and whisles. Sure, Apple might have something cooking deep inside their labs in Cupertino....
But that all doesn't take away from the fact that as of TODAY, Macbook air is Apple's Netbook.
The ipod and itunes beat the walkman because there was no high speed downloads and uploads on the minidisc. You had to download the song in real time through the USB. Sony eventually changed their tune but by then it was too late.
I agree with your statement but your comparing the wrong devices. For the portable market you would compare the walkman to the ipod. For the home market you would compare the PS3 to the Apple T.V.
I'm sure that the MP3 tie-in for the PSN will be Amazon which means ease of use plus you can already log into PSN from a computer. No need for a PSP/PS3.
Apple has clouds too. And it's better. Not sure where you were going with this.
The debit incurred by Sony was not pushing Blu-Ray but the whole development behind the CELL processor. Teaming up with Samsung for the HD displays and sharing the cost of CELL with Toshiba was a good move.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-LCD
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/other/...icially_Form_Semiconductor_Joint_Venture.html
I'm just not part of the group that feels you should have to pay double to connect to the internet. That's why I have to wait till Thanksgiving to play MW2 on Xbox live...I doubt 5 years from now Blu-ray will even be around which is the whole point of Sony taking on iTunes. Besides, who counts unearned income as revenue besides Enron. lol
brace>>>>>
Sony could be the end of optical media after all that money that they spent on Blu Ray
its not funny, its smart, they are the last form of physical media.. and its not just on the movie/video game level..
before the war was over, companies were buying blu ray towers to do their backups. it was/is cheaper than the older tape method. and even servers need to be backed up, not to mention the rise in storage costs, its over a $1 for a gb of storage at my company.. so we are seldomnly approving more storage space and offering physical back ups for older content past 3 to 6 months old.
similar to the transition from vhs to dvd, the dvd to blu ray movement is in full effect.
less features on dvd releases. check
trade in deals for dvd to blu ray. check
packed in deals (dvd/blu ray/digital copy in same bundle). check
price drop on recordable blu ray drives. check
video game/movie bundles on blu ray. check.
company uses for storage medium. check.
the last known and recognized physical media to be a sony product. check
sony pictures offering free digital copies of their movies for use with sony products. check.
People actually buying into blu ray as the standard format. no check.
Thats the only thing that matters.
that was the first thing asked and addressed.
the subscription base is for the extra services that may include some gaming features but are really for non gaming features like movies/music/social networking etc..
if you dont sign up for sony's online service.. you still get to play your video games for free.
this is my beef with xbox live.. i dont mind paying for services i want.. i just dont feel i should pay for playing online when its made available by the game developer and i've already paid the price of admission to my ISP.
apple doesnt charge you a fee to launch itunes. it charges you for the content. paying to play on xbox is like apple charging you to play your music on itunes by not allowing you to connect to the internet.
could you imagine launching itunes, playing a song you bought, but itunes displays a notice saying "you have to connect to the internet to play this song", but you are connected, the notice then says "yes but we are blocking you from that service because you are a cheap member click this link to make a payment and you can play the song you bought" WTF??
one way to get you on the sony side is look at their images from their conference.. non paying members are going to get standard definition quality services. paying members get HD content. Before you bitch and moan, are you the type that said your dvd is fine you don't need blu ray? cause if you are this type of service is perfect for you, standard def for free, high def for paying customers.. just how you wanted it
People actually buying into blu ray as the standard format. no check.
Thats the only thing that matters.
not sure what your talking about, people are buying them. pretty soon there will be no choice as they will eventually stop making dvd's. every quarter the share is growing.
apple and netflix only provide the meat and potatoes.. extra features are not included in these services and are incomplete on blu ray..
i can only
at the blu ray hate.. its pretty much the same as it was in the vhs days.. you remember how people made the switch to dvd? it wasnt only that it got cheaper.. they also stopped making vhs tape releases.. new movie you want out? cant get it on dvd no more, either download the DRM version or buy the blu ray (illegal content is not a part of this conversation we are talking about consumers)
I am in no way an electronics buff. I know the companies who create them and the lines they create but don't know jack about their performance.
However I do know this: Microsoft has pc USERS and Apple has Mac ENTHUSIASTS. That translates into Microsoft aims at the person who needs something to function, while Apple aims at the market that needs something to perform.
If one considers themselves any type of "artist", a Mac is not the exception, it is the rule. That...that, I DO know.
I dont hate the blu-ray i just dont think it will ever have mass appeal. The consumer will never choice to support the device as they did other technological format transitions. For all intents and purposes its 2010. We're approaching 4years of high definition DVD yet there is no high consumer demand. And the share hasnt grown every quarter as you stated. In 2008 there was a slight regression before shares slightly increased. As of today they are still less then 10%. And absent a complete stoppage of DVD sales/manuacturing this isnt gonna change. Blu ray players are now comparable to price with DVD players. Guess what? People still have litle to any interest.not sure what your talking about, people are buying them. pretty soon there will be no choice as they will eventually stop making dvd's. every quarter the share is growing.
apple and netflix only provide the meat and potatoes.. extra features are not included in these services and are incomplete on blu ray..
i can only
[UPDATE] Kaz Hirai confirms premium level will be added on top of PS3 and PSP's online service, which will remain free to play online; PSN revenue expected to hit $563 million this fiscal year.
One the biggest selling points of the PlayStation 3 is that gamers can use the console to play online at no additional charge. However, evidence has surfaced that the company is planning a two-tiered subscription model for the PlayStation Network similar to--but also fundamentally different from--Xbox Live.
Sony is mulling a premium version of PSN.
Slides accompanying a Thursday presentation by Sony show that the company is planning a "new revenue stream from subscription" on PSN in 2010. [UPDATE] During the presentation, which emphasized Sony's plans to make its game business profitable in the next fiscal year, Sony Computer Entertainment CEO Kaz Hirai confirmed the plans. "We will be building upon our current free [PSN] service offering with premium content and services to start the subscription model," he told attendees.
Perhaps to assuage PS3 owners' fears that they would soon have to pay to play online, Hirai issued a subsequent statement indicating the present level of service would remain gratis.
"SCE will further increase sales by offering users new entertainment through the combination of hardware, software, peripheral, and PlayStation Network," Hirai said in a statement given to British outlets, such as CVG. "Especially in the online area, we are studying the possibility of introducing a subscription model, offering premium content and services, in addition to the current free services." (Emphasis added.)
As of press time, US Sony reps had not offered Hirai's statement or further clarification about its subscription plans for the PlayStation Network. Luckily, though, the "current free services" currently offered on PSN include online play, Facebook integration, and Netflix video streaming. On Xbox Live, both of those features are only accessible at the Gold membership level, which costs at least $50 per year.
[UPDATE] Even without subscriptions, PSN revenue is on the rise. For the current fiscal year, which ends on March 31, 2010, Sony expects ¥50 billion ($563 million) in earnings from the service, a threefold increase from the year prior. In addition to game-related content, the PSN's retail component--the PlayStation Store--offers video offerings, such as television shows and movies for both rental and sale.
One the biggest selling points of the PlayStation 3 is that gamers can use the console to play online at no additional charge. However, evidence has surfaced that the company is planning a two-tiered subscription model for the PlayStation Network similar to--but also fundamentally different from--Xbox Live.
Sony is mulling a premium version of PSN.
Slides accompanying a Thursday presentation by Sony show that the company is planning a "new revenue stream from subscription" on PSN in 2010. [UPDATE] During the presentation, which emphasized Sony's plans to make its game business profitable in the next fiscal year, Sony Computer Entertainment CEO Kaz Hirai confirmed the plans. "We will be building upon our current free [PSN] service offering with premium content and services to start the subscription model," he told attendees.
Perhaps to assuage PS3 owners' fears that they would soon have to pay to play online, Hirai issued a subsequent statement indicating the present level of service would remain gratis.
"SCE will further increase sales by offering users new entertainment through the combination of hardware, software, peripheral, and PlayStation Network," Hirai said in a statement given to British outlets, such as CVG. "Especially in the online area, we are studying the possibility of introducing a subscription model, offering premium content and services, in addition to the current free services." (Emphasis added.)
As of press time, US Sony reps had not offered Hirai's statement or further clarification about its subscription plans for the PlayStation Network. Luckily, though, the "current free services" currently offered on PSN include online play, Facebook integration, and Netflix video streaming. On Xbox Live, both of those features are only accessible at the Gold membership level, which costs at least $50 per year.
[UPDATE] Even without subscriptions, PSN revenue is on the rise. For the current fiscal year, which ends on March 31, 2010, Sony expects ¥50 billion ($563 million) in earnings from the service, a threefold increase from the year prior. In addition to game-related content, the PSN's retail component--the PlayStation Store--offers video offerings, such as television shows and movies for both rental and sale.
Amajorfucup said:
Amajorfucup said:
vertigo the first time said:
I'll say it again, less sarcastically this time; You have an awful lot nerve to be making these statements as though they were facts- and at the same time calling my opinions (which I stated were MY opinions) non substantiated commentary. the point I'm making is that netbooks compete at two points and two points only- PRICE and PORTABILITY.
article brace linked to said:
If you are looking for a computer that is very inexpensive you aren't looking at macs. if you are looking for an easy to use,
integrated hardware software solution, you aren't looking at netbooks. If you are looking for the smallest, lightest thing to carry about, you aren't looking at macs. If you are looking to anything beyond email, web browser and (maybe) wp apps, you aren't looking at a netbook. The are not comparable. (except to a windows user looking for a reason to bash the platform)
brace said:
Yeah, there has been argument about this for a long time. I hope you posted this video just to illustrate that there is debate over this and not to support your point that the air is a netbook. in the video, he outlines the working definition of netbook for the purposes of that discussion, he specifies a lightweight, small screen, low powered limited function device- and though he concedes that the air fits these criteria when compared to the rest of apples line up , he ultimately concludes that when looking at the market in general, the air is simply an under-powered laptop, and that there are myriad underpowered laptops in the windows world that aren't considered netbooks. However after seeing the video and reading one of the articles you posted (which was an editorial, the writers opinion only) I won't call you crazy for saying that the air was a netbook, I just think you're wrong.
plus, fwiw, Jobs himself says it ain't.
brace said:
to use my "horrible analogy" again, so I can't say that hamburgers and porterhouse are totally different foods? they both come from cows, right?....
sure the steak has the top of the line cut of beef and sure, has a lot of kool preparation methods and comes with a baked potato, but....
SlimJones said:
Well said! anecdotally only, I know about two dozen mac users personally and all but one use their macs in some sort of creative faculty- be it visual arts, layout production, writing, animation, photography, web design, music or video production and editing, etc. most everyone else I know uses windows, but out of that number, most use their computers for either getting work done, ( email, word/office) web browsing or games. only a few use theirs creatively; a couple for web design, (photoshop, illustrator, flash) and maybe one writer. I cosign what you say in that (imo) the pc is a tool for most of its users; the mac is an instrument to help people express themselves.
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depending on what the premiums are this could be very damaging, for sony. I think that when buyers are making a choice between xbox and ps3, the free to play online is a big selling point. I understand that the core service will still be free, but it'll end up like xbox live silver. Who really uses that?
I have both consoles, so it's not a big deal, I do however, usually buy online multiplayer games on the xbox, and sony has an uphill battle if they are going to change that. if I had neither and was trying to choose, this would be a huge selling point for me.
That isnt true and i disagree. But even if it were true how does that negate my overall point? It seems as if you're responding for the sake of responding at this point. What does this have to do with or how does it counter any points being made in this thread?? Do you even know what the discussion is about at this point? Netbooks appeal to both markets and the netbook has had an impact on Apples market. This is a fact. See the link i provided above for further proof.
Oh and are you really disputing my claim that the average Mac owner isnt some highend high income wage earner? Really my man? You cats are hilarious with this shit.
depending on what the premiums are this could be very damaging, for sony. I think that when buyers are making a choice between xbox and ps3, the free to play online is a big selling point. I understand that the core service will still be free, but it'll end up like xbox live silver. Who really uses that?
I have both consoles, so it's not a big deal, I do however, usually buy online multiplayer games on the xbox, and sony has an uphill battle if they are going to change that. if I had neither and was trying to choose, this would be a huge selling point for me.
no one uses xbox live silver cause you cant play online
xbox live core = no online
psn core = online free
the extra services on top of the free meaning.. everyone gets free, then there an optional subcscription base for more bells and whistles if you want them
I think this is because of 3 or four things, the biggest of which is that for most folks, the picture quality of dvd is good enough- rather, there is not a significant enough improvement of blu ray over dvd to warrant the purchase of new equipment.
I don't think that blu ray players are comparable in price to current dvd players. The cheapest blu ray players still cost more than the most expensive dvd players, and when you can get a new dvd player for 25-99 dollars, why would you spend 150+ on a blu ray player?
both the players and the discs are so much more expensive than dvd As the prices come down and as more households acquire HD televisions, people will adopt-