You know damn well Im talking about defensive technique man.
Shane Mosley: I'm The Best at 147, Not Manny Pacquiao
- Thread starter Lapdanceking
- Start date
You know damn well Im talking about defensive technique man.
Say anything to knock PBF.
And say anything to promote Jones.
No logic needed.
Roy is that you?
Will there be another Roy Jones, prolly not, dropped Virgil Hill wit a body shot, y'all musta forgot!!!
Last edited:
Thanks to Zeferino, eewwll, and FJP this was a VERY entertaining thread.
I think Zeferino might have gotten a quarter of his total post count in this thread alone. That's impressive.
What this thread has really promoted, is me going to YouTube and getting back to being the boxing historian I "thought" I was until coming into this thread.
I have to get my game up to compete with you guys.
Thanks for the motivation.
I think Zeferino might have gotten a quarter of his total post count in this thread alone. That's impressive.
What this thread has really promoted, is me going to YouTube and getting back to being the boxing historian I "thought" I was until coming into this thread.
I have to get my game up to compete with you guys.
Thanks for the motivation.
Thanks to Zeferino, eewwll, and FJP this was a VERY entertaining thread.
I think Zeferino might have gotten a quarter of his total post count in this thread alone. That's impressive.
What this thread has really promoted, is me going to YouTube and getting back to being the boxing historian I "thought" I was until coming into this thread.
I have to get my game up to compete with you guys.
Thanks for the motivation.
You're welcome.
Speaking of keeping your hands down...
Floyd definitely controlled that last 2/3 of that fight. It was a typical Floyd Mayweather fight: his opponent starts hot while May's figures out what he's doing and then he opens up offensively and defensively and starts to pull away. He landed the most blows and the most meaningful blows He was the most effectively aggressive fighter. DLH, after a few rds, hit a lot of elbows and air. That would have been a robbery to give it to the guy who does nothing effective.
Oscar lost the fight when he stopped throwing the jab in the 6th. From the 6th on out his performance was sub-par to say the least. Floyd counter-punched him to death.. by the 9th round, Oscar was just swinging at air.
If Oscar keeps throwing the jab, he wins the fight. I still dont understand why he stopped throwing it..
But I dont see how anyone can watch that fight objectively and come to the conclusion that Oscar done.
You can't. You and I already chopped up what happened to the jab. He's a veteran boxer, if the jab was there, he would have kept throwing it. But I do think Floyd's movement and effective countering made throwing the jab risky.
You and I have similar feelings on Jones, though I think you give him too much credit for his defense. I think he lost too much weight, too fast in preparation for his fight with Tarver. He added 20-25 lbs of muscle to move to heavyweight and then drop it to fight Tarver. He gained it the right way but lost it the wrong way.
I thought he won the first fight. Tarver got off strong in the first two rounds but when RJJ stopped backing himself into the ropes, he won the next 8 rds. Then the weight loss fucked him and he ran out of gas and layed on the ropes for the next two, making Tarver look good and aggressive but even then he didn't land anything.
RJJ should have never taken the Johnson fight, or any fight, so soon after getting knocked out for the first time. That was his ego that lead him into that fight. Johnson's not great but he has proven to be very good (you see he's still fighting competitively at a high level while the other two are struggling).
Tarver wouldn't but Johnson would have been an extremely tough out.
That Chavez draw was a robbery.
You aint never lied man.
Yeah, and it didn't have anything to do with a lack of agression. Whitaker was attacking, punching constantly, moving forward, and landing combos while making Chavez miss. Whitaker didn't settle on sitting back and pot shotting occasionally.
That's what happens in every fight where one fighter is so much faster than his opponent without fear of his opponents' power. Floyd has done that very thing against Judah, Gatti, Hatton,Corley, and Marquez. He's more of a counterpuncher than Pernell (he's still my favorite fighter too)but he's a more of an offensive threat than Pea. In comparison to Whitaker, Floyd might be overrated defensively and underrated offensively. Whitaker is really the only guy better than Mayweather defensively, but opponents sleep on his offensive skills and end up beaten by the 10 rd, if they make it that far.
Now Roy was my dude but he was the master at potshotting. The real difference between him and Floyd on that is that RJJ could knock people out with his shots while PBF uses it to rack up points and too disturb his opponents' rhythm.
I think Jones had a lot more depth to his game than PBF in the sense that Jones could potshot if he wanted or throw and land multiple punch combinations consistently and at will. PBF is little more than a pot shotter and rarely throws combinations in excess of two punches. Jones could fight from the outside and was a great inside fighter even with his back to the ropes. I think one of the best ways to appreciate this is to watch the fight with Merqui Sosa. The camera man got a real good angle in the corner and the infighting and yes defense by Jones was just amazing. Jones wasn´t even trying to get out of the corner. I think Jones' defense is terribly underrated to the point where some say he absolutely had no technique.
In order to understand the significance of the fight with Sosa it is good to know the circumstances and the times. About two months before Jones fought Sosa, the Ring Magazine had just voted Merqui Sosa the hardest chin in boxing and also the toughest light heavyweight. Jones chose Sosa to be his first test in the light heavyweight division and many people saw this as a huge risk.
I don't think Mayweather should be held in such high regard as far as his defense because he's not putting it to the test against the best opposition. Arturo Gatti was capable of making anyone look like Sugar Ray Robinson, just look at his fights with Carl Grove and Ivan Robinson. If Mayweather can be unhittable with Mosley and the rest than yeah he's got a great defense but before that his defense is suspect. It's unfair to name this guy the 2nd best defender of all time because Baldomir and a bunch of other forgettable guys couldn't hit him.
Before Mayweather fought Judah, he said in several interviews that Judah was a frontrunner. He knew that Judah was only good in the beginning of the fight but always dies down the stretch against anyone. Mayweather was right. I saw Judah almost lose to Roque Cassiani of all people because of this. So this wasn't about Mayweather being some kind of master and deciphering Judah to beat him. Judah ran out of gas and loss concentration like always, just like when he lost to the bum, Baldomir.
However, when Judah was still fresh in the beginning of the fight, he was able to time Mayweather, make Mayweather miss repeatedly, and even knock Mayweather down. Mayweather was just lucky that Judah was really a frontrunner like he said. I don't think Mayweather can hang with guys his own size at this point that are not on the decline in their career. He hasn't shown it.
Last edited:
On an all time list, I still have Jones over Floyd for now, so I can't take anything away from the man.
But what "rest" are you talking about? Other than Mosley, there are no true welterweights (that knocks out Paul Williams, a jr. middleweight) that could test Mayweather's defense in the way you seem to want and we can't be sure how good Mosley would look against a guy who is probably faster than he is at this point in their careers. Cotto doesn't do anything better than Floyd Mayweather. He may be stronger but so was DLH. Margarito wouldn't have been a test because he's too vulnerable to boxers (see first 7-8 rds with Cotto and whole fight with Mosley). He could have fought both of them and you would still have grounds to make the same complaint. It's too the point where Floyd Mayweather's natural gifts, mental and physical, are being used against him by his critics.
With Floyd, it's not just the defense, which is superlative, it's the conditioning and concentration. Even when he's been hit, he doesn't let it shake him an throw him off his gameplan. He got hit early with Zab, the only guy I think was faster and more athletic than Mayweather, but continued on with his plan and was beating Judah by the 4th rd and was on his way to a stoppage.
Regarding Zab, again, like Floyd said, he's a frontrunner. Being on your way to stopping Zab is no great accomplishment. Even Baldomir almost had Zab out and Baldomir can't even punch.
When I say the rest, I mean the guys in his division period. In spite of it seeming like I'm some hater, I think that all we can really expect Mayweather to do is handle his business in his division. If Mayweather beats the other champs, unifies the title, fights the best contenders, then no one can say anything. Mosley is not the only decent welterweight there and even Berto would be a test. It's easy to assume that Mayweather would just beat everyone anyway but boxing is full of upsets and that's why the fights need to be made. Mayweather acts like being undefeated is the greatest thing you can do in boxing. On that ESPN interview with Brian Kenny, he said something about all of these other guys fighting each other and ending up with losses as if that somehow elevated him. It's like he doesn't realize that they lose because they're fighting each other while he's sitting back in the cut not fighting anyone. The welterweight division is hot. There's no excuse for not getting in the mix and proving instead of talking.
While Zab is and was called a "frontrunner", Mayweather's fights follow the same formula and everyone can't be label "frontrunner": Opponent starts strong, Mayweather comes on by 5th, fight stopped or Mayweather by UD (Oscar got a gift with a split).
When it comes to Margarito-Mosley-Cotto fighting each other, I believe they had to. Mayweather worked his way into the top spot by winning AND by drawing fans to his fights. Those three all were winners but none could prove they could draw flies if they were covered in shit and jelly. It's unreasonable to expect him to fight all three but he should fight the best of that bunch and that's Mosley. Personally, I would have preferred Cotto had rematched with Mosley at welter than fight Pacquiao at a catchweight. Now through shrewd maneuvering Pacquiao's name is in the mix and is perceived by most as the best welter (not by me). Combine that with him being a proven draw, he leapfrogs Mosley.
Some of you might not like the talk of "who's a draw" in consideration of who fight whom but realistically, it's the biggest concern. It's dishonest to not talk about it. It was a concern when Shane didn't fight Mayweather a few years ago and it is now. May and Pac have been aiming at each other since at least the Pac-DLH fight. If it wasn't for him rib injury, we'd probably be talking about their fight in the past tense by now.
I don't see why it would be unreasonable for him to fight all three top guys in his division. Oscar fought Quartey and Trinidad. Trinidad fought Vargas and Reid. Mayweather should be aiming to fight the best and not just waiting for them to eliminate each other. I just think that for a guy to be greatest anything of all time he should at least be greatest in his own division during his prime and either way you slice it Mayweather hasn't proven to be the best welterweight. No matter how you look at it, the last time Mayweather fought an at least B level fighter not on the decline that was his own size was back in 2001 and 2002.
Zef
I don't consider you a hater at all. We just see things differently. If you came off as a hater like buk, I would shoot down your bullshit and mock you, not engage like I have.
I enjoy friendly, if sometimes contentious, back and forth.
I don't consider you a hater at all. We just see things differently. If you came off as a hater like buk, I would shoot down your bullshit and mock you, not engage like I have.
I enjoy friendly, if sometimes contentious, back and forth.
Zab Judah, when the fight was signed, was the best welterweight in the world. It's his own fault for overlooking a tuneup.
His own physical condition makes it unreasonable. He was terribly beat up going in with Hatton.
If Cotto hadn't foolishly fought Pacquiao at 145 then he was definitely in line to fight Floyd. Unless he loses to Andre Berto, it's hard to see him not getting the winner of May-Pac. That would be two, unless you count Mosley as on the decline.
Andre Berto, even with a win over Mosley, would still be a fight away from serious consideration from fighting Mayweather, unless May loses to Pac.
I find it funny you say he hasn't fought an at least B level fighter when, with the exception of Mosley, all you have to offer is B level fighters (Cotto, Margarito). The welterweight division is hot because so many of the guys are at about the same level. It's a pretty high level but few elite fightes. If Floyd was just entering the division now, none of these guys would want to fight him. Hell, he would probably have to fight Paul Williams because Cotto and Mosley would want to avoid him at all costs.
Zef dude hadnt fought anybody of any weight for damn near 2 years until Marquez. You cant talk about he hasnt beat anybody his own size with Hatton and Marquez cause he went WAY out of his realm to beat Oscar. I dont understand how people take away from Floyd saying he was too big for Hatton and Marquez....then turn around and dont say shit about Oscar doing the same thing to Floyd. Made him come up 3 weight classes and still didnt win. I dont understand that.
I understand your point, I feel the same way The best should fight the best available. At the same time what you want, and what is logical rarely coincide...ESPECIALLY in boxing.
If Floyd beats Manny and Shane would you be happy or would you say Mosely is on the decline? Marquez was on the decline. That Oscar shit I wasnt trying to hear. How the fuck was he on the decline when he was coming off an impressive knockout of Mayorga (Even though thats not all that hard.)? And more importantly got to keep ALL his weight from that fight AND made a cat come up from 140 to fight him?
And the Zab thing, again man you gotta let it go..."If Zab wasnt a frontrunner"...You are what you are. If the man called it as a PART of his strategy...apparently he KNEW that was gonna happen. That wasnt luck.
Far as Shane....just look at the video evidence.
Okay, I agree with you. Last night, I don't know if you were tired because it seemed like any anti Floyd argument was making sense to you.
I want Floyd to fight everybody. I not one of the people that thinks Floyd is unbeatable, but I think he is a great fighter and he has the potential of beating the best welterweights.
I think Floyd isn't stupid enough to think he's unbeatable either, but that's how PBF markets himself. If you add into the equation the cockiness, he becomes the fighter people want to lose.
The problem is dude can back up the shit talking. What kills me is when people try to down play him and make every excuse not to give dude credit for his accomplishments.
The trend is starting in which Floyd could never get credit even if he fought and beat some of the top guys:
Pac Man is too small.
Shane is too old.
Berto is too young.
Cotto is too damaged psychologically.
Clottey can't win the big fights (even though, he's cheated constantly).
Paul Williams damaged his body by moving up and down in weight.
And if he only fights some of these guys before truly retiring, there will be some people saying he ducked who ever is left.
Come on. Mayorga
Man dont you see whats in the parentheses?
as a fellow boxing fanatic and expert i like the convo that's going on in here...however sweet pea does have a KO loss on his record...TKO in 4 when Carlos Bojorquez broke Pernell's clavicle in that fight
you are right... he was clearly done before this fight though..shouldnt have been fighting in the first place
I was just making a point, coming into the fight nobody was sayin Oscar was shot, in fact people didnt say he was shot till after Manny whooped him.
yeah trinidad gave him his first true non controversial loss and beat him up pretty good in the fight before his last....its a shame that sweet pea is walking around these days messed up and its not because if boxing cuz he didn't really take that much punishment..the man couldn't leave crack alone
yeah trinidad gave him his first true non controversial loss and beat him up pretty good in the fight before his last....its a shame that sweet pea is walking around these days messed up and its not because if boxing cuz he didn't really take that much punishment..the man couldn't leave crack alone
I saw a brief interview with him from a week ago
you can tell he is still on the drugs
http://www.eastsideboxing.com/news.php?p=22007&more=1
yep
excerpt
Boring Fights Because of His Superior Defense
Mayweather can control and dictate the pace and the manner in which his fights play out because of his defensive prowess. This is a gift that few fighters have.. You look at a guy like Bernard Hopkins. When have you seen him get “Beat Up” in any fight? He finishes his fights looking nearly the way he entered. Hopkins like Mayweather controls fights with his defensive skills often making it very difficult and awkward for opponents to land clean solid punches. Defensive wizardry is not easily taught and more often than not a God given talent. Sure you have seen guys able to slip punches because of their quick reflexes only to see that lost with Father Time a la Roy Jones Jr., but what Mayweather possesses is much more than just quick reflexes.
INDEED they are
Oscar did NOT fight everybody...why did'nt he fight Vernon Forrest like shane did? Or winky Right? Hell when he lost to IKE QUARTEY altho they GAVE him the fight cuz he looked good in the 12th round,He Never gave IKE the rematch when asked. His answer to WHY NOT give the rematch he said IKE did'nt give him a challange..and that he felt the fight was'nt exciting..BULLSHIT! His best wins were against smaller or OLDER/over da hill fighters IMO.You say that if he cant say "Im the greatest ever" in Phillipine language
Come on man, he might not have BEATEN every big name on his list but Oscar fought everybody. Far as Manny he fought JMM, Morales and Barrera maybe I'll give you that. But still tho he came from flyweight and Fought oscar, he fought hatton, cotto a legitimate strong welterweight. Without a doubt he's fought more credible fighters than Floyd.
If im not mastaken that clip was taken from a fight he had at 154 which is Junior Middleweight/Super Welterweight...he did'nt "Duck" Mayweather...what he was SAYING was he was'nt sure about comming DOWN in weight to fight him. He did'nt want to be at a disadvantage if they fought was what he was saying.
Spin it how you want.
Dude could of just said it was a weight issue. This nigga stated talking about his tooth
Last edited: