Russia Invades Georgia

This conflict has shown how the US and the rest of the western alliance approaches these situations. If this conflict happened in a country where the enemy are generally weak, the US and co would've been there in a flash.

Where you now have a opponent who is just as capable as yourself in retaliating, the US are taking a back stop and thinking twice about getting involved.

Georgia should seriously consider there so called 'alliance' with the US who in all reality left them when the going got tough.
 
This conflict has shown how the US and the rest of the western alliance approaches these situations. If this conflict happened in a country where the enemy are generally weak, the US and co would've been there in a flash.

Where you now have a opponent who is just as capable as yourself in retaliating, the US are taking a back stop and thinking twice about getting involved.
You left out an important 'distinction' didn't you? - "Alliance". In an alliance, forces are always deployed in a manner to deter agression or, if it occurs, to respond quickly in a meaningful way. Now, factor a formal alliance into what you said above and tell me if your comments, remain the same.

Also factor in, if you will, that Saakashvili had been warned: (1) that the Russians were creating provocation in the separatist territories; (2) they were ready to pound if Georgia made the wrong move. Factor too that neither NATO or the U.S., had a military presence in a deterent posture in or around Georgia when Saakashvili made the silly mistake of poking a damn Bear with a stick.

There are some on and off this board who argue that Saakashvili was put up to fucking with the Russians by the U.S. To that, please ask yourself:
  • Was Saakashvili more than stupid to have relied upon any promises from the U.S., when it was abundantly clear that the U.S., did not have forces in place that (1) could have acted as a deterrent to the Russians; or (2) that could have engaged the Russians had they not been deterred ???

  • Would the U.S., (especially Bush in his waning days) have invited embarrasment by foolishly urging Saakashvili to fuck with the Russians knowing that they have been itching for this fight and that we were in no posture to intervene ???

What does common sense say ?

MCP said:
Georgia should seriously consider there so called 'alliance' with the US who in all reality left them when the going got tough.
Uh, what alliance was that ??? Isn't it Western Europe that had better be considering its plight in light of the circumstances ???

QueEx
 
Some Background Instigators in the Georgia/ Russia Conflict

I don't care who sits on the throne, I want to know who's whispering in any given ruler's ear...



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Randy Scheunemann



* Senior Foreign Policy Advisor for John McCain 2008

* Former Director for The Project for a New American Century (PNAC)

* Former Treasurer of The Project on Transitional Democracies:

Much of Scheunemann’s work, in both the public and private spheres, has been oriented toward Europe, promoting democratic programs and expanding NATO to former Soviet-bloc countries.

MORE INFO





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Condoleezza-Rice-new.jpg


Condoleeza Rice



* Speaks fluent Russian

* Current Secretary of State, former National Security Advisor

* Author of Uncertain Allegiance: The Soviet Union and the Czechoslovak Army(1984)

* Author of Germany Unified and Europe Transformed (1995)

* Former Director of Soviet and East European Affairs [National Security Council] (1989)

* Joint Chiefs of Staff: Council on Foreign Relations Fellow on Nuclear Strategic Planning (late 1980s)


MORE INFO







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Zbigniew Brzezinski



* "Former" Senior Policy Advisor for Barrack Obama ["Former", yeah, ok :rolleyes:]

* Hates Russia

*

*

The different pies this guy has had his finger in is incredible... I'm running out of time right now, so I challenge anyone to post more info about him... I'll post more when I get the chance...
 
Russia-Asia cooperation a nightmare for US hawks

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F William Engdahl: The Geopolitics of Georgia (3 of 3)

Russia and Georgia swapped accusations today presenting a huge challenge to the EU-sponsored ceasefire agreement designed to end seven days of fighting. The accord had envisioned Russian and Georgian forces returning to their original positions. These conditions have yet to be met. The United Nations estimates 100-thousand people have been More..uprooted by the fighting, including 12-thousand South Ossetians who fled north into Russia. F William Engdahl believes that "Russia China and the nations of Eurasia are beginning to cooperate politically and economically and this is a nightmare for Washington."


Bio

F William Engdahl is an economist and author and the writer of the best selling book "A Century of War: Anglo-American Oil Politics and the New World Order." Mr Engdhahl has written on issues of energy, politics and economics for more than 30 years, beginning with the first oil shock in the early 1970s. Mr. Engdahl contributes regularly to a number of publications including Asia Times Online, Asia, Inc, Japan's Nihon Keizai Shimbun, Foresight magazine; Freitag and ZeitFragen newspapers in Germany and Switzerland respectively. He is based in Germany.


Watch part 1 here The geopolitics of Georgia (The REAL News)
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Watch part 2 here Nuclear war by miscalculation
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The Truth about Georgia gets censored again on TV

The Truth about Georgia gets censored again on TV. A reporter makes a comparison to the US reaction to 911 to Russia's reaction to Georgian attacks and the satellite feed drops off in the middle of his question. TV is censored every day and every hour but sometimes the censorship is plain to see.

I feel the laugh at the end is very meaningful.

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:lol:
 
Re: The Truth about Georgia gets censored again on TV

Its unfortnate that we didn't get to hear the entire statement.

Without passing judgment on why the transmission was lost,
since to do so would only be to guess, I wonder exactly which
response to 911 was the commentator referring ???

QueEx
 
Re: The Truth about Georgia gets censored again on TV

wow :smh:


QueEx- Afghanistan, Iraq, Patriot Act, destruction of civil rights, destruction of privacy, torture, extraordinary rendition - so much to choose from. My guess is the first 2.
 
U.S. Media Distorts Reality Of Georgia/Russia Conflict

U.S. Media Distorts Reality Of Georgia/Russia Conflict
08-12-2008
www.roguegovernment.com



Lee Rogers



The U.S. media is consistently distorting the true cause of the conflict between the U.S. and Israeli backed Georgian government and Russia. Instead of reporting facts, the U.S. media is choosing to spin everything by blaming the Russians for the war, when that assertion is totally false considering that the European press and others have almost universally reported that the Georgian military started the war by invading South Ossetia without any sort of provocation. There is no mention of how the U.S. and the Israelis have been providing the Georgian military with support for years prior to this confrontation. There is also no mention of a large scale military exercise conducted by over 1,000 U.S. troops and 800 Georgian troops that took place only weeks ago prior to this conflict. There are even reports from Russian media outlets talking about how mercenaries from the U.S. may have been found amongst the dead and none of that is mentioned. Instead, we see neocon fascist mad men like Bill Kristol and others advocating more provocative acts against Russia and even outright war with them. In addition to the selective reporting, the U.S. media is choosing to focus primarily on non-news stories like the John Edwards sex scandal, the Olympics and other tabloid garbage. The U.S. media is losing even more credibility by failing to adequately report what is easily one of the biggest stories of the year. There are now thousands of dead in this war thus far and the U.S. media thinks other issues are more important? This is more proof that the U.S. media is largely a gaggle of propaganda stooges.

The Israeli media has been reporting on what a great job the Israelis did in training the Georgian military.

The following is from Harretz:

Jewish Georgian Minister Temur Yakobshvili on Sunday praised the Israel Defense Forces for its role in training Georgian troops and said Israel should be proud of its military might, in an interview with Army Radio.

"Israel should be proud of its military which trained Georgian soldiers," Yakobashvili told Army Radio in Hebrew, referring to a private Israeli group Georgia had hired.

There have also been reports from the Israeli media discussing the material support of the Georgian military by the Israelis.

The following is from Ynet News:

The fighting which broke out over the weekend between Russia and Georgia has brought Israel's intensive involvement in the region into the limelight. This involvement includes the sale of advanced weapons to Georgia and the training of the Georgian army's infantry forces.

None of these news stories are important to the U.S. media because it doesn’t fit in with the agenda of the establishment. There’s been a total media blackout of the fact that there was a large scale military exercise between U.S. and Georgian troops only a few weeks ago. What about the reports of American mercenaries found among the dead in the area? We haven’t seen much on that news story in the U.S. media either. On top of that, there has been no real discussion on the volume of material support the puppet Georgian government has received from the U.S. and Israel. Instead, the U.S. media is blaming the Russians for this war claiming that they hate democracy and freedom. In reality it had nothing to do with any of that, as this was clearly an aggressive act by the Georgian puppet government acting under the direction of the West.

The war has caused Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili to declare martial law but it is not the first time he has done this. Late last year, Saakashvili unleashed riot police armed with sound weapons and other police state gear on protesters when he was in danger of losing power. These actions are not the sign of a so called democracy that the U.S. media is claiming Georgia and Saakashvili represent. In reality, Saakashvili is a puppet of the West educated at George Washington University and put in power by what appears to have been a CIA funded operation back in 2003. The Georgian people are largely poor, which makes the logic behind the money being put towards the Georgian military all the more ridiculous.

With all of this going on, it is laughable that George W. Bush is currently spending most of his time posing for photos with Olympic athletes. This is just more proof that the man is a puppet and runs nothing. Fortunately the Russians have announced that they are halting military operations in Georgia which indicates that they will hopefully not advance on the Georgian capital which would result in more death and destruction. This might be an indication that this conflict will settle down, but there is no guarantee. Either way, this unnecessary provocation by the U.S. and Israeli backed Georgian military is criminal and Saakashvili along with his controllers should be tried for war crimes. Of course, the U.S. corporate controlled media will not bring on anybody who will make these statements. Instead, they’ll continue to bring on neocon stooges who will accuse the Russians of hating democracy and freedom while advocating NATO membership for the Ukraine, Georgia and other former Soviet Republics which will further agitate the situation. The corporate controlled media in the U.S. are nothing more than a bunch of liars and propaganda stooges.

http://www.roguegovernment.com/news.php?id=11387
 
Re: The Truth about Georgia gets censored again on TV

wow :smh:


QueEx- Afghanistan, Iraq, Patriot Act, destruction of civil rights, destruction of privacy, torture, extraordinary rendition - so much to choose from. My guess is the first 2.
But, thats my point; a lot of guesses. Since I can't read the speaker's mind, I'd rather hear it from him. With respect to the first two, I would disagree with you on the former but agree with you on the latter.

But the issue here is "censorship". Why did the transmission stop? Was it because someone (and we don't know who) stopped it, or was it because of mere line failure? Without something more than is in this thread up to this point, what would we base any answer on ???

QueEx
 
Re: U.S. Media Distorts Reality Of Georgia/Russia Conflict

This op-ed piece is mostly a crock of shit. LOL. And, before someone jumps off the deep end, most op-ed pieces are biased or slanted depending on the writers personal beliefs, and the same holds for this one except, however, this one doesn't even pretend to contain any facts upon which its opinions are based, for example:

Lee Rogers for the Rogue Government News said:
The U.S. media is consistently distorting the true cause of the conflict between
Lee Rogers does not point out a single news outlet or other media outlet as an example of the distortion. Not fucking one. You would think he would give at least one example, though one example would hardly be enough to show "consistent distortion." The fact is, Mr. Rogers is part of the media and it is clear that HE too is guilty, of distortion.

QueEx
 
Pipeline that runs through Georgia.

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:eek:
 
RT: Cheney: U.S. has deep interest in Georgia

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:eek:
 
Cheney Backs NATO Membership for Georgia

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Vice President Dick Cheney and Georgia's president, Mikheil Saakashvili, met U.S. soldiers delivering humanitarian aid in Tbilisi Thursday.​

By STEVEN LEE MYERS and ALAN COWELL
TBILISI, Georgia — One day after the United States proposed $1 billion in humanitarian and economic assistance to help rebuild Georgia after its war with Russia, Vice President Dick Cheney flew here to reaffirm Washington’s support for this country’s eventual NATO membership and to issue a powerful condemnation of Moscow.

Standing alongside President Mikheil Saakashvili at a joint news conference, Mr. Cheney declared: “After your nation won its freedom in the Rose Revolution, America came to the aid of this courageous young democracy. We are doing so again, as you work to overcome an invasion of your sovereign territory, and an illegitimate, unilateral attempt to change your country’s borders by force that has been universally condemned by the free world.”

He said he had assured the Georgian leader that he “can count on continued support and assistance from the United States.”

“I assured the president as well of my country’s strong commitment to Georgia’s territorial integrity. Georgia has that right, just as it has the right to build stronger ties to friends in Europe and across the Atlantic.”

“Russia’s actions have cast grave doubts on Russia’s intentions and on its reliability as an international partner, not just in Georgia, but across this region and indeed throughout the international system,” Mr. Cheney said.

“Georgia will be in our alliance. NATO is a defensive alliance. It is a threat to no one.”

His words of support for Mr. Saakashvili placed him on a direct collision course with Russia’s leaders who have labeled the Georgian president a “political corpse” and who have made clear that they see Georgia’s membership of NATO as intolerable.

Mr. Cheney’s remarks about Georgia’s territorial integrity also contradicted Russia’s recognition of the independence of two areas of the country -_ South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

The vice president was speaking on the second leg of a tour of the region which he began in Azerbaijan Wednesday. He planned to fly later Thursday to Ukraine.

After a one-hour meeting — 30 minutes longer than planned — Mr. Cheney and Mr. Saakashvili visited the military section of Tbilisi’s international airport where they met with American airmen unloading a shipment of blankets that arrived earlier in the day from Italy on an American C-130 military transport plane. “Appreciate everything you’re doing for us,” Mr. Cheney said in sight of an aircraft construction factory bombed by the Russians in the first days of the war last month. Earlier, Mr. Cheney described his visit to the region as a demonstration that the United States had “a deep and abiding interest” in keeping Georgia and other neighboring states free from a new era of Russian domination.

The combination of new American aid and Mr. Cheney’s high-profile visit to a region the Russians call “the near abroad” is sure to inflame tensions further. Russia’s leaders have openly accused the United States of having provoked last month’s conflict by providing Georgia with weapons and training for its armed forces, while encouraging its aspirations to join NATO.

The aid package proposed Wednesday in Washington, which requires approval from Congress, significantly expands assistance to a country that has become ardently pro-American in recent years, though at the cost of the worst relations between the United States and Russia since the collapse of communism.

The aid would dwarf the $63 million the United States provided to Georgia last year, roughly a third of it for training its soldiers, police officers and border guards. Excluding Iraq, the infusion would make Georgia one of the largest recipients of American foreign aid after Israel and Egypt. The United States has provided about $1.8 billion over all in the 17 years since Georgia gained independence from the collapsing Soviet Union.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, appearing in Washington, said that $570 million of the aid would be made available this year, while the rest would depend on approval by a new administration and a new Congress. It does not include any military aid, she and other administration officials said.

The initial money, President Bush said in a statement, would be used to feed and shelter tens of thousands of Georgians displaced during the fighting that began on the night of Aug. 7 when Georgia tried to establish control over a breakaway region, South Ossetia, only to be driven back by Russian forces. Mr. Bush also pledged to support its transition to a democratic market economy.

“Georgia has a strong economic foundation and leaders with an impressive record of reform,” Mr. Bush said in his statement. “Our additional economic assistance will help the people of Georgia recover from the assault on their country and continue to build a prosperous and competitive economy.”

President Dmitri A. Medvedev and Prime Minister Vladimir V. Putin have already complained that humanitarian supplies delivered by the American Navy and Air Force were a disguise for delivering new weapons, accusations that administration officials have dismissed as baseless.

The American military has so far delivered $30 million in emergency aid, including 1,200 tons of food and relief supplies like tents, delivered by 61 Air Force jets and two Navy ships plying the Black Sea. Mr. Bush also ordered federal agencies to expand trading opportunities between the United States and Georgia and to provide maritime insurance for ships docking in Georgia.

“The free world cannot allow the destiny of a small independent country to be determined by the aggression of a larger neighbor,” Ms. Rice said in Washington.

Still, there seemed to be little pressure the United States and European countries could exert to persuade Russia to back down in its confrontation with Mr. Saakashvili’s government. Many administration officials worry that overthrowing Mr. Saakashvili’s government is Russia’s unwavering intention.

While the administration has made its political, diplomatic and economic support for Georgia abundantly clear, however, it has yet to settle on what steps, if any, it will take to punish Russia. It has failed to do so even as American and European officials vehemently protest that Russia continues to violate a French-brokered agreement to end the fighting and withdraw Russian troops from Georgian territory.
 
Re: Cheney Backs NATO Membership for Georgia

This will make things very complicated for any incoming administration, especially a Democratic administration.
 
Re: Cheney Backs NATO Membership for Georgia

<font size="5"><center>
Year After Georgian War,
Rage Has Only Hardened</font size></center>



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Russian soldiers cleaned their rifles on Friday in Tskhinvali, a city in the breakaway region of
South Ossetia where Georgian shelling last Aug. 7 began the fighting.


The New York Times
By ELLEN BARRY
Published: August 7, 2009


TSKHINVALI, Georgia — A year after war broke out in this tiny provincial city in the breakaway region of South Ossetia, the roads are still rutted with jaw-rattling potholes and downtown buildings are shells open to the sky.

But great effort has gone into commemorating last year’s war. Near midnight on Friday, precisely a year after Georgia began shelling Tskhinvali, thousands of people gathered in the city’s main square, where a Russian-made documentary was projected on a huge screen overhead. Images of Georgia’s president, Mikheil Saakashvili, and President George W. Bush were juxtaposed with footage of dead Ossetians, as a floodlit violinist played melancholy music.

Georgia, too, offered heavy symbolism. In Gori, which came under Russian bombing in the war, authorities erected a replica of the Berlin Wall, a pointed commentary on Russia’s foothold on Georgian land. Georgians observed a nationwide moment of silence in the afternoon, and 500 schoolchildren dressed in red and white formed a living replica of Georgia’s flag. A year after the war, the question of who is to blame is still being fought out in public life. On Friday, the presidents of both Russia and Georgia took pains to justify their decisions to send their armies into South Ossetia.

Both have faced pressure over the war; Russia set itself at odds with the West by sending its troops into Georgia and again, more permanently, when it recognized the independence of South Ossetia and Georgia’s other separatist enclave, Abkhazia. Mr. Saakashvili, meanwhile, is blamed by domestic critics for losing control over the territories.

Meanwhile, in this valley, the rage has not abated, not at all. As they prepared to mark the war’s anniversary, Ossetians here referred to Georgians as “swine” and “livestock,” and said they would never live in peace with them again. The commemorations seemed only to stoke those feelings.

“If at some point I see a young Georgian man, and I know that he served in the army, I will kill him,” said Seldik Tedeyev, a bus driver whose son and mother died trying to leave Tskhinvali last Aug. 8. “Years will pass, time will pass, but I will kill him anyway.”

An escalating conflict here erupted into full-fledged war when Georgian forces began shelling Tskhinvali on the night of Aug. 7. Russia responded by sending columns of armor into South Ossetia and Abkhazia. Russia routed the Georgian Army, and then recognized the regions as sovereign nations, pledging to protect their independence with its military.

Georgia has reported more than 400 deaths in the war; Russia’s prosecutor’s office has so far reported 162. Some 30,000 ethnic Georgians who were driven from their homes remain refugees, according to Amnesty International, and Ossetian militias razed their villages to the ground.

In a speech on Friday, Mr. Saakashvili made the case he has made since the beginning: that a Russian invasion was already under way on the night of Aug. 7, and that the attack on Tskhinvali was defensive.

“Our beloved nation was fighting for its very existence,” he said. “The heirs of the old K.G.B. decided to put an end to what they call the ‘Georgian project,’ our collective attempt to build a European state in a corner of Europe that had never before had one.”

President Dmitri A. Medvedev of Russia, in remarks to filmmakers in Moscow, described the decision to send in troops as the most difficult of his life.

“Each time I remember these events, I rewind the tape, as they say, and realize that on one hand, we had no other choice in that situation,” he said. “On the other hand, the events were unfolding under the worst-case scenario, probably, the most sorrowful scenario.”

Russia responded “harshly” to Georgia, he said, “saving hundreds and thousands of lives and restoring peace in the Caucasus that was at serious risk.”

Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, South Ossetia has been cut off from Georgia politically and economically, and Tskhinvali came to feel less like a city than a village, with passing cars kicking up clouds of dust. Its prewar population was estimated at 70,000 — including Ossetians and many ethnic Georgians, who farmed on the lush strip of land north of the capital. Both groups, on Friday, were thinking about what they had lost.

Mr. Tedeyev, 47, sat in the shade of a tree in his courtyard, stone-faced. He has four memorial services to go to next week — among others, for his 22-year-old son, who was shot by advancing Georgian infantry when he tried to drive north to Russia. Mr. Tedeyev’s mother was killed moments before, when a shell hit the car.

Mr. Tedeyev grew up in Tbilisi, the Georgian capital, and has many relatives in Georgia, but since his son’s death he has severed all contact with them. He has heard from only one of them — a favorite aunt — and when he heard her voice on the phone he hung up. He smokes two packs of cigarettes every night, he said, thinking obsessively about that drive out of the city.

“I don’t like to see people,” he said. “I sit quietly alone in a room.”

On the other side of the border, Nana Tsitsuashvili, 50, dissolved into tears as she stood in Gori’s central square before the Berlin Wall exhibit. A year ago, she fled Gori when it was under bombardment; nine of her neighbors were killed, she said, and she still has trouble conceiving that Russia would use bombs on civilians. But Nino Gabinashvili, 16, one of the students who gathered to form a Georgian flag, had no such difficulty.

“August showed us that Russia is our enemy,” said Ms. Gabinashvili, whose family fled Gori as Russian soldiers entered. “Ossetians are not enemies, they are just toys in the Russians’ hands, but eventually they will realize this.”

Olesya Vartanyan contributed reporting from Tbilisi, Georgia.



http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/08/world/europe/08georgia.html?hp
 
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