Ring Magazine Fighters Of The Decade

FJP

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Honestly Lennox Lewis should have won the 90's. He beat everybody who was anybody and more importantly he dominated when the Heavyweight division was still relevant.
 

Upgrade Dave

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Honestly Lennox Lewis should have won the 90's. He beat everybody who was anybody and more importantly he dominated when the Heavyweight division was still relevant.

Maybe but the big names he beat, he beat after they were old and fading and Bowe never fought him.
 

Upgrade Dave

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Sounds a whole lot like two Dudes currently battle for the mythical #1 pound for pound slot doesn't it? :hmm:

You could say that but I've been saying all along that most fighters on the modern era (going back to the 80s at least) have one fighter they should have fought but chose not to.
And part of combat sports is veterans being removed from the stage by the next generation. At this point, Floyd and Manny are closer to 40 than 30 so does the guy who beat them not get credit for the win? The thing with Lewis is Tyson and Holyfield could be considered in his generation not the previous (arguably) but he never beat either of them when they were legit. While Jones was simply awesome during that same time period. Lewis isn't a bad choice at all but he's not the best choice.
 

FJP

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Maybe but the big names he beat, he beat after they were old and fading and Bowe never fought him.

Bowe wouldn't fight him. Lennox fought who was available. One thing you can say is he didn't duck anybody. And to be honest.... I hate Lennox Lewis but i respect his resume.
 

Zeferino

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You could say that but I've been saying all along that most fighters on the modern era (going back to the 80s at least) have one fighter they should have fought but chose not to.
And part of combat sports is veterans being removed from the stage by the next generation. At this point, Floyd and Manny are closer to 40 than 30 so does the guy who beat them not get credit for the win? The thing with Lewis is Tyson and Holyfield could be considered in his generation not the previous (arguably) but he never beat either of them when they were legit. While Jones was simply awesome during that same time period. Lewis isn't a bad choice at all but he's not the best choice.

Of course. No great fighter fought every single threat. Mike McCallum was avoided by Leonard, Hearns, Hagler, etc. One or two missed guys is acceptable but the Floyd situation is special as he has failed to be the universally recognized man in his division. In that respect, Pacquiao has failed at that too at welterweight. However, in Mayweather's case, he missed a fuckload of dudes. I'm not getting into whose fault was what but Floyd missed Freitas, Casamayor, Tzyzu, Paul Williams, Margarito, he finally got to Cotto this year after two KO losses for Cotto, Berto, Pacquiao. Mayweather has missed way too many dudes. Some will say, "oh, he would have beat them anyway" but so fucking what? He didn't fight the fights. After lightweight, Floyd never fought the #1 guy in any division he was ever in ever again. His competition after JL Castillo wayyyy back in 2002 is pitiful considering his talent.
 

Zeferino

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Honestly Lennox Lewis should have won the 90's. He beat everybody who was anybody and more importantly he dominated when the Heavyweight division was still relevant.

Lewis was dope, but over Roy Jones?, prolly not, stopped fukkin Virgil Hill wit a body shot, yall musta fuhgot!, ding, ding, ding, (that's the music to the song)
 

Upgrade Dave

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Bowe wouldn't fight him. Lennox fought who was available. One thing you can say is he didn't duck anybody. And to be honest.... I hate Lennox Lewis but i respect his resume.

Same here.

Of course. No great fighter fought every single threat. Mike McCallum was avoided by Leonard, Hearns, Hagler, etc. One or two missed guys is acceptable but the Floyd situation is special as he has failed to be the universally recognized man in his division. In that respect, Pacquiao has failed at that too at welterweight. However, in Mayweather's case, he missed a fuckload of dudes. I'm not getting into whose fault was what but Floyd missed Freitas, Casamayor, Tzyzu, Paul Williams, Margarito, he finally got to Cotto this year after two KO losses for Cotto, Berto, Pacquiao. Mayweather has missed way too many dudes. Some will say, "oh, he would have beat them anyway" but so fucking what? He didn't fight the fights. After lightweight, Floyd never fought the #1 guy in any division he was ever in ever again. His competition after JL Castillo wayyyy back in 2002 is pitiful considering his talent.

Not rehashing this. This is bullshit. If it were someone else, I would think you were uninformed but I know you know better so you're just lying.
The only guy on this whole list that can be said Mayweather ducked is Paul Williams, a name that also belongs on the Duck List of Shane Mosley, Manny Pacquiao, and Miguel Cotto.

Lewis was dope, but over Roy Jones?, prolly not, stopped fukkin Virgil Hill wit a body shot, yall musta fuhgot!, ding, ding, ding, (that's the music to the song)

Lewis had a pretty good run but Roy was better. It's not Heavyweight of the Decade but Fighter of the Decade.
 

Zeferino

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Same here.



Not rehashing this. This is bullshit. If it were someone else, I would think you were uninformed but I know you know better so you're just lying.
The only guy on this whole list that can be said Mayweather ducked is Paul Williams, a name that also belongs on the Duck List of Shane Mosley, Manny Pacquiao, and Miguel Cotto.



Lewis had a pretty good run but Roy was better. It's not Heavyweight of the Decade but Fighter of the Decade.

I'm not saying he ducked them, I'm saying he missed them for whatever reason. All these guys fought in the same division as he at one time or another. After 135, he never fought the #1 guy in any division. I guess the only possible exception would be DLH at 154lbs. I understand the politics of boxing and that he possibly wasn't the blame for missing all these guys. My point is he missed them.
 

Upgrade Dave

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Is it only me who remembers Lennox getting knocked the fuck out in the 90s :confused:

Nope. Not just knocked out but knocked out by nobodies who never did a damn thing afterwards.

I'm not saying he ducked them, I'm saying he missed them for whatever reason. All these guys fought in the same division as he at one time or another. After 135, he never fought the #1 guy in any division. I guess the only possible exception would be DLH at 154lbs. I understand the politics of boxing and that he possibly wasn't the blame for missing all these guys. My point is he missed them.

Okay but even the point I bolded is highly disputable. At 147, he was the number one guy. The guy after him was Shane Mosley and they fought. At 154, the number one guy was Miguel Cotto, they fought. In fact, when he signed to fight Zab Judah, Judah was the number one guy. He lost to Baldomir and Floyd fought both of them.

Tsyzu cant count as a miss because he retired when Floyd became a contender at 140.
 

Zeferino

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Nope. Not just knocked out but knocked out by nobodies who never did a damn thing afterwards.



Okay but even the point I bolded is highly disputable. At 147, he was the number one guy. The guy after him was Shane Mosley and they fought. At 154, the number one guy was Miguel Cotto, they fought. In fact, when he signed to fight Zab Judah, Judah was the number one guy. He lost to Baldomir and Floyd fought both of them.

Tsyzu cant count as a miss because he retired when Floyd became a contender at 140.

Floyd never faced Pacquiao at 147 or even Berto. Judah was not the top welter when they fought no matter how you slice it. Baldomir was and is a bum and Mayweather opted to fight him over Margarito. No way was Cotto the #1 junior middle in the world when Mayweather fought him. What has Cotto done at 154 to deserve to be called the best there? He only had three fights there against 2 older guys making comebacks (Mayorga, Margarito) and Yuri Foreman.
 

Upgrade Dave

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Floyd never faced Pacquiao at 147 or even Berto. Judah was not the top welter when they fought no matter how you slice it. Baldomir was and is a bum and Mayweather opted to fight him over Margarito. No way was Cotto the #1 junior middle in the world when Mayweather fought him. What has Cotto done at 154 to deserve to be called the best there? He only had three fights there against 2 older guys making comebacks (Mayorga, Margarito) and Yuri Foreman.

Berto was never the top welterweight and when he had a shot at it, he got popped by Ortiz, so that wouldn't have made any difference in this conversation.
And after losing to Williams, neither was Margarito so that argument is out the window as well (but predictable and I was so hoping you would use it anyway).
If not Cotto, who? Martinez had moved on to middleweight so who? Brundage?
Hell, Alvarez isn't the top jr middleweight now, Mayweather is so even if they fight next or eventually, there would still be the "he didn't fight the number one guy" argument.
Baldomir was a bum but the beauty of combat sports is that on any given night, anyone can be beaten and Baldomir did what he needed to do to win the welterweight title and get on Mayweather's radar. If he wasn't the champ, he never gets that fight.
Or Floyd could have not fought him and then there would be people questioning why Floyd never fought the bigger, stronger Baldomir when he was the welterweight champ and beat Zab before Floyd did.
 

Zeferino

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Berto was never the top welterweight and when he had a shot at it, he got popped by Ortiz, so that wouldn't have made any difference in this conversation.
And after losing to Williams, neither was Margarito so that argument is out the window as well (but predictable and I was so hoping you would use it anyway).
If not Cotto, who? Martinez had moved on to middleweight so who? Brundage?
Hell, Alvarez isn't the top jr middleweight now, Mayweather is so even if they fight next or eventually, there would still be the "he didn't fight the number one guy" argument.
Baldomir was a bum but the beauty of combat sports is that on any given night, anyone can be beaten and Baldomir did what he needed to do to win the welterweight title and get on Mayweather's radar. If he wasn't the champ, he never gets that fight.
Or Floyd could have not fought him and then there would be people questioning why Floyd never fought the bigger, stronger Baldomir when he was the welterweight champ and beat Zab before Floyd did.

Berto was not THE top welterweight but he was A top welterweight along with Floyd and Pacquiao at one time. Floyd didn't fight either one of those guys. He missed both. In other words, he never established himself as even the king of his own division. Berto got popped by Ortiz just last year. Berto had been champ since 2008! So, of course if you wait long enough the guy was going to lose. Therefore, Berto losing in 2011 has nothing to do with why Floyd never fought the guy in 2008, 2009, and 2010.

Regarding Baldomir and Margarito. Margarito was clearly regarded as better competition than Baldomir back then regardless of any belts. Baldomir was/is a straight up bum. Floyd had both Margarito and Baldomir on the table for similar money and chose Baldomir. This happened. I don't know how you can even defend that. Margarito losing to Williams is no excuse for Floyd not fighting him back then especially if he had to choose between Margarito and Baldomir. Shit, Baldomir had like 10 losses against nobodies. At least Margarito loss to Williams.

If Floyd had fought Margarito instead of Baldomir, do you really think people would have dogged him for not fighting Baldomir instead? C'mon dog, you don't believe that.

And this picture you're trying to paint of Miguel Cotto being the top junior middleweight in 2012 is just crazy to me. What did he do to deserve that distinction? At least Canelo Alvarez had a history at 154lbs. Hell, he even knocked out your boy Carlos Baldomir. Cotto fighting a beyond shot Mayorga and a half blind comebacking Margarito at a catchweight is not enough to crown him the king of junior middles IMO. Those two fights were pretty much the most significant fights of Cotto's reign at junior middle and they were both garbage.
 

Upgrade Dave

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Berto was not THE top welterweight but he was A top welterweight along with Floyd and Pacquiao at one time. Floyd didn't fight either one of those guys. He missed both. In other words, he never established himself as even the king of his own division. Berto got popped by Ortiz just last year. Berto had been champ since 2008! So, of course if you wait long enough the guy was going to lose. Therefore, Berto losing in 2011 has nothing to do with why Floyd never fought the guy in 2008, 2009, and 2010.

Berto never fought anybody of note. His first real "big" fight was supposed to be the Mosley fight that was canceled. He didn't fight again until Ortiz. He was a titleholder but he was never considered a legitimate top guy in his division and is still looking for a signature win.

Regarding Baldomir and Margarito. Margarito was clearly regarded as better competition than Baldomir back then regardless of any belts. Baldomir was/is a straight up bum. Floyd had both Margarito and Baldomir on the table for similar money and chose Baldomir. This happened. I don't know how you can even defend that. Margarito losing to Williams is no excuse for Floyd not fighting him back then especially if he had to choose between Margarito and Baldomir. Shit, Baldomir had like 10 losses against nobodies. At least Margarito loss to Williams.

Margarito was and would have been better comp but he was coming off a loss and didn't even want a rematch with the man that beat him. He shouldn't have gotten a fight with Mayweather, Williams should have and we both agree that Floyd ducked Paul Williams, not missed, ducked.

If Floyd had fought Margarito instead of Baldomir, do you really think people would have dogged him for not fighting Baldomir instead? C'mon dog, you don't believe that.

You're doing it now with Berto and Tszyu so yeah, you would do it with Baldomir if Mayweather had chosen to fight a former welterweight champion instead of the current one.

And this picture you're trying to paint of Miguel Cotto being the top junior middleweight in 2012 is just crazy to me. What did he do to deserve that distinction? At least Canelo Alvarez had a history at 154lbs. Hell, he even knocked out your boy Carlos Baldomir. Cotto fighting a beyond shot Mayorga and a half blind comebacking Margarito at a catchweight is not enough to crown him the king of junior middles IMO. Those two fights were pretty much the most significant fights of Cotto's reign at junior middle and they were both garbage.

If you've been paying attention to my posts for the last couple years, you know I've never been a fan of Cotto and I had long called out his matchmaking but the question remains: if not him, who?

And this new gif might be the sickest yet. :thumbsup:

Nope it's not only you lol. He got knocked da fuck out TWICE. Once by oliver McCall and again by Hasim Rahman if I recall correctly:smh:

You are correct, sir. Jones did not lose in the 90s, Lennox did.
 

Zeferino

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Berto never fought anybody of note. His first real "big" fight was supposed to be the Mosley fight that was canceled. He didn't fight again until Ortiz. He was a titleholder but he was never considered a legitimate top guy in his division and is still looking for a signature win.



Margarito was and would have been better comp but he was coming off a loss and didn't even want a rematch with the man that beat him. He shouldn't have gotten a fight with Mayweather, Williams should have and we both agree that Floyd ducked Paul Williams, not missed, ducked.



You're doing it now with Berto and Tszyu so yeah, you would do it with Baldomir if Mayweather had chosen to fight a former welterweight champion instead of the current one.



If you've been paying attention to my posts for the last couple years, you know I've never been a fan of Cotto and I had long called out his matchmaking but the question remains: if not him, who?

And this new gif might be the sickest yet. :thumbsup:



You are correct, sir. Jones did not lose in the 90s, Lennox did.

Alright dude. I think we've both expressed our positions. Nice discussion. Too bad the boxing discussion only gets going on here when in reference to Mayweather. There's so much more boxing to talk about. As for the gif,:dance:. Some people might think it's too immoral for a porn board:confused:. If I get banned, it's been nice debating you guys.:lol:
 

Upgrade Dave

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Alright dude. I think we've both expressed our positions. Nice discussion. Too bad the boxing discussion only gets going on here when in reference to Mayweather. There's so much more boxing to talk about. As for the gif,:dance:. Some people might think it's too immoral for a porn board:confused:. If I get banned, it's been nice debating you guys.:lol:

I would like that but outside of a couple other guys, if other boxers are the topic, the names "Mayweather" and "Pacquiao" keep coming up and whoever we were talking about fades away.


Yeah, it's funny how cats on a porn board want everyone to have the same tastes as they proclaim to have (while they download in secret the shit they supposedly find "disgusting").
 

merce77

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I hope Devon Alexnader beats a couple more high profile guys and earns a shot at Floyd. Devon was never my guy but I really can't front, at 147 he looks like a totally new fighter, aside from the Bailey fight - very impressive. I would like to see him and Guerrero clash for a shot at Floyd or Manny. Devon's gotta get past Kell Brook first but i don't see that fight being too much of a problem for him.
 
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merce77

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I would like that but outside of a couple other guys, if other boxers are the topic, the names "Mayweather" and "Pacquiao" keep coming up and whoever we were talking about fades away.


Yeah, it's funny how cats on a porn board want everyone to have the same tastes as they proclaim to have (while they download in secret the shit they supposedly find "disgusting").

Yeah, that kills me too since I'm the type of cat who likes plain ole sexy women, whether white, fat, tall, dark skinned or cockeyed:lol: If she's got that sexy thing going, I'm with it. Too many dick watchers on this board monitoring what gets niccas off, that shit is :smh:

Back to boxing though. I think it has more to do with the fact that 140 to 154 has so many big names(at least to hardcore fans) and different match ups that can still be made - coupled with the fact that those fighters in those divisions are in Manny and Floyd's vicinity. So their names are naturally gonna pop up.
 

merce77

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As far as Guerrero fighting dirty? Two words - Bernard Hopkins.:lol: Anyway, I actually agree with Zef and for me the proof is in all Berto's other fights, he holds with the left and throws uppercut and right hand combos. My dad can never remember his name and refers to him as the guy who "holds and hits". My belief is that Guerrero studied this about Berto and came with a plan to neutralize it, Berto had no answer for these tactics. I was actually most impressed by Guerrero's ability to take a punch from a genuine hard hitting 147lb fighter after jumping 2 weight classes a couple fights ago.
 

IT IS WHAT IT IS

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As far as Guerrero fighting dirty? Two words - Bernard Hopkins.:lol: Anyway, I actually agree with Zef and for me the proof is in all Berto's other fights, he holds with the left and throws uppercut and right hand combos. My dad can never remember his name and refers to him as the guy who "holds and hits". My belief is that Guerrero studied this about Berto and came with a plan to neutralize it, Berto had no answer for these tactics. I was actually most impressed by Guerrero's ability to take a punch from a genuine hard hitting 147lb fighter after jumping 2 weight classes a couple fights ago.

It's funny you mention this, because that's normally the case. A Dude who is used to doing some shit, can't handle when it's done back for him. That's why B-Hop had so much trouble with Calzaghe...

Top to bottom, after all the analysis, Berto just basically got his ass kicked! Shows two things, PEDs are a motherfucker, and Berto is basically a B class fighter...
:hmm:
 

Zeferino

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It's funny you mention this, because that's normally the case. A Dude who is used to doing some shit, can't handle when it's done back for him. That's why B-Hop had so much trouble with Calzaghe...

Top to bottom, after all the analysis, Berto just basically got his ass kicked! Shows two things, PEDs are a motherfucker, and Berto is basically a B class fighter...
:hmm:

But Berto was the one caught on PEDs. What are you suggesting?
 

Upgrade Dave

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I hope Devon Alexnader beats a couple more high profile guys and earns a shot at Floyd. Devon was never my guy but I really can't front, at 147 he looks like a totally new fighter, aside from the Bailey fight - very impressive. I would like to see him and Guerrero clash for a shot at Floyd or Manny. Devon's gotta get past Kell Brook first but i don't see that fight being too much of a problem for him.


I think Alexander hurt himself fighting at a smaller weight than he should have been and now looks sharper and stronger. Him and Guerrero would be nice.

Yeah, that kills me too since I'm the type of cat who likes plain ole sexy women, whether white, fat, tall, dark skinned or cockeyed:lol: If she's got that sexy thing going, I'm with it. Too many dick watchers on this board monitoring what gets niccas off, that shit is :smh:

Truth.com

Back to boxing though. I think it has more to do with the fact that 140 to 154 has so many big names(at least to hardcore fans) and different match ups that can still be made - coupled with the fact that those fighters in those divisions are in Manny and Floyd's vicinity. So their names are naturally gonna pop up.

I get that and if you're talking about fights and fighters and how and what they should do to fight either of them, that's a different and more interesting discussion. There is no way to talk about that range without the prospect of any particular fighter fighting Mayweather/Pacquiao.

As far as Guerrero fighting dirty? Two words - Bernard Hopkins.:lol: Anyway, I actually agree with Zef and for me the proof is in all Berto's other fights, he holds with the left and throws uppercut and right hand combos. My dad can never remember his name and refers to him as the guy who "holds and hits". My belief is that Guerrero studied this about Berto and came with a plan to neutralize it, Berto had no answer for these tactics. I was actually most impressed by Guerrero's ability to take a punch from a genuine hard hitting 147lb fighter after jumping 2 weight classes a couple fights ago.

Guerrero was a champ for taking those shots. Berto was banging him with those uppercuts and took some hard body shots as well. He knew Berto would eat him up from the outside and stayed in and fought a good fight.
B-Hop was the prototypical dirty fighter:lol: He could teach a class on stepping on cat's toes and using the stubble on his head and face on his opponent's face. Shit was kind of beautiful. My main gripe is less tactics and more bad refereeing. An athlete will do what they can, it's the ref's job to enforce the rules. That ref was bad all the way to the final bell and that first knockdown should have never counted.


Top to bottom, after all the analysis, Berto just basically got his ass kicked! Shows two things, PEDs are a motherfucker, and Berto is basically a B class fighter

Yeah but he showed heart and kept fighting until the end. I just hope HBO doesn't shuffle him off and keeps him on tv. Gatekeeper status isn't a bad way to earn a living.
 

merce77

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I think Alexander hurt himself fighting at a smaller weight than he should have been and now looks sharper and stronger. Him and Guerrero would be nice.



Truth.com



I get that and if you're talking about fights and fighters and how and what they should do to fight either of them, that's a different and more interesting discussion. There is no way to talk about that range without the prospect of any particular fighter fighting Mayweather/Pacquiao.



Guerrero was a champ for taking those shots. Berto was banging him with those uppercuts and took some hard body shots as well. He knew Berto would eat him up from the outside and stayed in and fought a good fight.
B-Hop was the prototypical dirty fighter:lol: He could teach a class on stepping on cat's toes and using the stubble on his head and face on his opponent's face. Shit was kind of beautiful. My main gripe is less tactics and more bad refereeing. An athlete will do what they can, it's the ref's job to enforce the rules. That ref was bad all the way to the final bell and that first knockdown should have never counted.




Yeah but he showed heart and kept fighting until the end. I just hope HBO doesn't shuffle him off and keeps him on tv. Gatekeeper status isn't a bad way to earn a living.

Quite true, that ref has been shitty in 80% of the fights I've seen him ref, he lets a lot of questionable shit go down, but that's the game.

Gatekeeper status can still net you some nice profit. Just ask Gatti or Ward. Him and Ortiz really need to do it a second time, very exciting fight.
 

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Quite true, that ref has been shitty in 80% of the fights I've seen him ref, he lets a lot of questionable shit go down, but that's the game.

Gatekeeper status can still net you some nice profit. Just ask Gatti or Ward. Him and Ortiz really need to do it a second time, very exciting fight.

Hell yeah. That so far is the second really good fight Berto should have had a rematch for and hasn't. Does he or whoever is managing him not understand they are leaving money on the table?
 

Upgrade Dave

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Alright dude. I think we've both expressed our positions. Nice discussion. Too bad the boxing discussion only gets going on here when in reference to Mayweather. There's so much more boxing to talk about. As for the gif,:dance:. Some people might think it's too immoral for a porn board:confused:. If I get banned, it's been nice debating you guys.:lol:

Oh yeah, link to video the gif is from would make us friends.
 

merce77

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On another note I thought Austin Trout was very impressive last night. Dude was poised and patient and smart enough to pick his times to box and brawl a bit. He clinched when Cotto got too close and he took him to school. Now we know why no one had given him a chance. As for Cotto, it's been a good career, he's made a lot of money - time to bounce.
 

tp2001

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On another note I thought Austin Trout was very impressive last night. Dude was poised and patient and smart enough to pick his times to box and brawl a bit. He clinched when Cotto got too close and he took him to school. Now we know why no one had given him a chance. As for Cotto, it's been a good career, he's made a lot of money - time to bounce.

Funny thing is that after the fight, Schaefer was talkin like they would still try to make Cotto-Canelo :confused:
 

merce77

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Funny thing is that after the fight, Schaefer was talkin like they would still try to make Cotto-Canelo :confused:

This surprises you?:lol:Arum is notorious for throwing his dudes under the bus.

Gotta amend this statement right here ^^^^^^ since Cotto represents himself. Them head blows must be affecting his judgement. Dude should have cashed out after the Floyd match. He gave Floyd a fight he could be proud of or at least not be ashamed of and made a real nice chunk of change.
 
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Upgrade Dave

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I'm with Dave on this one. I second that - emphatically. I'll even buy a couple of bean pies off you.:D

:lol::lol::lol:

Funny thing is that after the fight, Schaefer was talkin like they would still try to make Cotto-Canelo :confused:

That's boxing. Trout just became one of those new names merce was wanting but Cotto is still marketable for a "redemption" fight. An easy tuneup and that Canelo fight can be made. I said he was "cashing out" when he fought Mayweather so it wouldn't surprise me if he did try to get the Alvarez fight and then retire.
 
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