"Racist Are Inherently Intellectual Cowards"

[II Dxnum]

do run now. you care about this shitty site that much? lol take the wager. don't be a hoe your whole life.

 

[Mrfreddygoodbud]

Racism isn't a practice. Racism is a belief. White Supremacy is the practice. Don't imply that I'm a dumbass by posting a quote that has nothing to do with me.

Like I've told others, don't bark up this fucking tree buddy.

Yes, the system itself was created by white people. But it's a system that can be used by other groups all over the world, even here. The largest system of racial supremacy is white supremacy.

You can be racist with your thoughts, if you believe yourself to be superior SOLELY based on your race - that colors your interaction with people of other races.

But I digress. I know I won't get any kind of agreement here on such a nuanced topic. It's much easier to just point a finger and shout.

you are sooo wrong, you are confusing prejudice with racism..

Racism is systemic, its not an individual thing......

Prejudice is.......

I give this example all the time, and trust me, you can try

to refute it, it will only be amusing to me.


A perfect example of racism that can only be practiced by whites.


is Denying someone a place to live, denying someone a loan..

redlining...Thats racism...


police profiling males in particular young black males thats racism...



Name one time, just once a caucazoid was denied a place to live in america because of the color of his skin....


Just one time....


and if you can, then you will have convinced me of the notion everyone can be racist....

 

[Mrfreddygoodbud]

Dominant genes as far as skin color, tone, eye color...etc

Show me scientific evidence that the dominant genes are also found in intelligence and physical strength.

No silly


dominant as in EXISTENCE..

dude how can you even ignore the Sun factor,

without dominant genes you are pretty much unfit

for life on a solar planet..



do you know at one time,

cacs said blacks couldnt play basketball, because

it took intelligence to do so....???



do you know this??

 

[ansatsusha_gouki]

Racism isn't a practice. Racism is a belief. White Supremacy is the practice. Don't imply that I'm a dumbass by posting a quote that has nothing to do with me.

Like I've told others, don't bark up this fucking tree buddy.

Yes, the system itself was created by white people. But it's a system that can be used by other groups all over the world, even here. The largest system of racial supremacy is white supremacy.

You can be racist with your thoughts, if you believe yourself to be superior SOLELY based on your race - that colors your interaction with people of other races.

But I digress. I know I won't get any kind of agreement here on such a nuanced topic. It's much easier to just point a finger and shout.

You believe what you wanna believe,but you're wrong about black people being racist.

 

[Mrfreddygoodbud]

racism

IS

affirmative action for whites..

aka A CRUTCH.. A SECURITY BLANKET
because they cannot have an honest competition

without it...

and they had it for hundreds of years..


and THATS why they hate the racist label...!!


they dont want to admit, handouts and welfare that

racism provides at the expense of the melanin rich...


is what they need to exist....

white power = affirmative action enforced by the gun

 

[Nobody]

You believe what you wanna believe,but you're wrong about black people being racist.

Im talking about ALL people being racist. Don't be so limited in your thinking.

 

[Nobody]

No silly


dominant as in EXISTENCE..

dude how can you even ignore the Sun factor,

without dominant genes you are pretty much unfit

for life on a solar planet..



do you know at one time,

cacs said blacks couldnt play basketball, because

it took intelligence to do so....???



do you know this??

They seem to be doing just fine, don't they? Consider their wealth compared to ours...you waste your time being occupied with the most frivolous shit.

 

[BigDaddyBuk]

Racism isn't a verb, it's a noun.

You guys are confusing the system of white supremacy with racism.

Please, don't change the meaning of words.

are you REALLY this dishonest?


racism
[rey-siz-uh m]

Examples
Word Origin

noun
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human racial groups determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to dominate others or that a particular racial group is inferior to the others.

2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.


3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/racism?s=t

you posted only as much to support your argument, because posting ALL of the information would be too much like having an honest discussion.

damn shame.

 

[Mrfreddygoodbud]

They seem to be doing just fine, don't they? Consider their wealth compared to ours...you waste your time being occupied with the most frivolous shit.

LOL,

NOPE melanoma is the worse cancer you can get...

and guess who gets it the most..

doing fine... dude you realize the caucasion race

is going the way of the dodo bird right?

So "they seem to be doing fine" crakka please....

you on that t.v red carpet bull shit....



and you dont want this debate, because if you think wealth is


more important than HEALTH... then I think you the one, walking, eating, living in the frivolous shit...

in fact I know you are...


trust me..


Health will always be more important than wealth...


just trust me on this.. if you ever do anything right in your life,


let this be the first...

 

[Nobody]

you are sooo wrong, you are confusing prejudice with racism..

Racism is systemic, its not an individual thing......

Prejudice is.......

I give this example all the time, and trust me, you can try

to refute it, it will only be amusing to me.


A perfect example of racism that can only be practiced by whites.


is Denying someone a place to live, denying someone a loan..

redlining...Thats racism...


police profiling males in particular young black males thats racism...



Name one time, just once a caucazoid was denied a place to live in america because of the color of his skin....


Just one time....


and if you can, then you will have convinced me of the notion everyone can be racist....

If a black person is in the position of denying someone a loan and does so on the basis of that persons race and that ALONE...is it racism? If a black police officer specifically targets white people and ONLY white people...is it racism?

You absolutely have to understand that like the other poster said it's not racism that we need to focus on, it's white supremacy which is based on a foundation of racism.

Prejudice is a preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience. Racism is both an individual thing AND systemic.

I see what the issue is. Because white supremacy is so rampant and invasive in our lives it's difficult to wrap your mind around the idea that ALL people can be racist and victims of racism - including white people.

However, racism is only dangerous if there's some power behind it, and because the power that black people have over white people is extremely small in comparison to that of white people over black people it's easy to just wash away any racism in the direction of blacks being racist towards whites - and I understand that, I've done the same myself.

The difference between you and me is that I don't look at another person and assume myself to be superior based upon race alone. That is a dangerous thing for us to do because it can placate people, creating a world of dominance and superiority that exists only within our mind - much like you do when you talk about "melanin rich" this, and "melanin deficient" that and dominant and recessive...you've created a world you live in where you are dominant and powerful that only exists in your mind, because in society it does NOT exist.

I sincerely hope you understand my point and what I'm trying to do when I speak about this subject.

It's not about saying "hey, we can be racist too!" but rather taking away justification of racism with the hopes of slowly breaking that system down. If you view yourself to be superior to one group on the basis of race by being melanin rich, the other group can view themselves as being superior to YOU on the basis of being RESOURCE RICH. So they can say, "glad you got that skin to live on a solar planet, because your home loan wasn't approved - if you need me speak to my assistant because I'll be in my house with AC or in my pool enjoying the shade"

But if you remove your belief of superiority to a person on the basis of race you can then focus on whether you're superior to them on the basis of INTELLIGENCE - something that you have to work at and push forward upon, and not some foundation that you're simply born with.


I used to think that I was just crazy, but it's clear to me more than ever before that many of you simply don't have the capacity to understand ANY of this.

You have to start thinking much deeper and much harder than the simplistic shit you keep parroting.

 

[Nobody]

LOL,

NOPE melanoma is the worse cancer you can get...

and guess who gets it the most..

doing fine... dude you realize the caucasion race

is going the way of the dodo bird right?

So "they seem to be doing fine" crakka please....

you on that t.v red carpet bull shit....



and you dont want this debate, because if you think wealth is


more important than HEALTH... then I think you the one, walking, eating, living in the frivolous shit...

in fact I know you are...


trust me..


Health will always be more important than wealth...


just trust me on this.. if you ever do anything right in your life,


let this be the first...

Trust me when I say that the people I speak of are those who hold the wealth, who are largely white. You think they give a fuck about poor whites getting melanoma, when the wealthy have the means to protect themselves?

They even view their own as shit, which is why they LOVE this simplistic ass battle of skin color between poor whites and poor blacks and poor poor poor.

Once we break down that barrier of race at the lowest level, we'll ALL turn our attention upwards at the REAL VILLAINS.

But I digress. Continue to fight your penny ante racist battles on a porn board. Good luck to you.

 

[WhenTheGoingGetsTtuff]

Racism isn't a practice. Racism is a belief. White Supremacy is the practice. Don't imply that I'm a dumbass by posting a quote that has nothing to do with me.

Like I've told others, don't bark up this fucking tree buddy.

Yes, the system itself was created by white people. But it's a system that can be used by other groups all over the world, even here. The largest system of racial supremacy is white supremacy.

You can be racist with your thoughts, if you believe yourself to be superior SOLELY based on your race - that colors your interaction with people of other races.

But I digress. I know I won't get any kind of agreement here on such a nuanced topic. It's much easier to just point a finger and shout.

I disagree with you. I don't feel the need to insult you because i disagree with you. smh Bgol such love for one another.

 

[da_monumental_1]

I had a feeling someone would take the "don't believe the dictionary because it was written by white people" angle

You also miss the point of my posts. Power comes in varying degrees and scopes, it doesn't necessarily have to be known.

The most pervasive form of racism is white supremacy. This is not something I'm contending under any circumstance.

Im just saying that racism is a belief of superiority on the basis of race. PERIOD.

If you believe you're superior to someone because you're black and they're not - you legitimize the construct of white supremacy. THIS is my point. The moment you feel superior to another based upon race you legitimize the belief that someone thinks their superior to you because they're of a different race, and therefore the entire system becomes FAIR because white supremacy as a system of oppression on a macro is a real thing while black supremacy is NOT. Therefore we would be inferior because if we weren't we would be living in a world of black supremacy on a global scale - but clearly we currently do not.

I know that paragraph may be difficult to understand.

Concepts that aren't simply "racism is white supremacy and white supremacy is racism!" or "context of white supremacy!!" are very difficult for posters to grasp here.

Strawman. Never made such a claim nor did I even mention anyone white. I simply asked was the definition accurate. Was it accurate in 1936 when it entered the lexicon as far as concerning black people? Yes or no?

However, since you want to go there, do white people lie? Do they or do they not have a history of having placed falsehoods, misinformation or omissions in written works that are held up as scientific or lawful that have a degree higher level of scrutity or authenticity than a dictionary? If so, what makes a dictionary or any other non-fiction work exempt? Hell, over time, the definition of the very words we commonly use can and have changed.

By the way, you still didn't answer the questions in my initial post.

 

[WhenTheGoingGetsTtuff]

Watching this is very uncanny for me because I came to this determination long ago in my everyday contemplating.

That's why I would be more likely to have respect for a white extremist than the subtle white supremacist.

The neo-nazi or klu klux klansman will simply own up and say, "Fuck niqqers. Damn them all to hell, and I hate them because I just fucking do. Fuck yeah, I'm racist!"

Okay...

But the mundane white supremacist is like a person who molests children but despises being called a pedophile.

They want to practice white supremacy and reap all its benefits but oh nooooo...don't call me racist.

Yep. Good post.

 

[Nobody]

LOL,

NOPE melanoma is the worse cancer you can get...

and guess who gets it the most..

doing fine... dude you realize the caucasion race

is going the way of the dodo bird right?

So "they seem to be doing fine" crakka please....

you on that t.v red carpet bull shit....



and you dont want this debate, because if you think wealth is


more important than HEALTH... then I think you the one, walking, eating, living in the frivolous shit...

in fact I know you are...


trust me..


Health will always be more important than wealth...


just trust me on this.. if you ever do anything right in your life,


let this be the first...

Im going to tell you this one thing. Don't make weak ass assumptions of who I am, what I'm about or how I look. You doing so is just weak, to be honest, because there's nothing about my comments that even insinuate any of that. You simply take a line i said and extrapolate that to me. WEAK.

I know the value of health, I've coached plenty people on their health and its been a big money maker for me. My profession involves physical and mental health - trust me, you have no idea who I am or what I am about.

But, knowing that health is more valuable than wealth is not enough to forego wealth - not personal wealth but the wealth of a COMMUNITY.

THAT is what I call wealth. Look at our schools, homes, economic opportunities. If you feel that wealth is bullshit and something we shouldn't be concerned with attaining - then we'll be the ones dying out, if you haven't been paying attention to the news for the past few years.

But go ahead with your one liners. If you think there's anything you can teach me with these silly comments, I feel sorry for you with your delusions.

I'm really curious to know though, with all your talk about being genetically dominant if you're just another lard ass on here or if you are a representation of this genetic dominance in mind and body.

I doubt it.

 

[Nobody]

Strawman. Never made such a claim nor did I even mention anyone white. I simply asked was the definition accurate. Was it accurate in 1936 when it entered the lexicon as far as concerning black people? Yes or no?

However, since you want to go there, do white people lie? Do they or do they not have a history of having placed falsehoods, misinformation or omissions in written works that are held up as scientific or lawful that have a degree higher level of scrutity or authenticity than a dictionary? If so, what makes a dictionary or any other non-fiction work exempt? Hell, over time, the definition of the very words we commonly use can and have changed.

By the way, you still didn't answer the questions in my initial post.

That was not a straw man as it was exactly what you insinuated, unless by "we" you mean you, and that you are white.

I also answered your question with my reply to you. If you couldn't grasp it, it's on you, not me.

But since you want to contest the dictionary's definition of the word racism, why don't YOU define the word. Right here, right now.

You have to give me a definition of the word that the dictionary clearly isn't according to you.

The interesting thing is your entire premise rests on it's own straw man argument. Saying the word as defined in dictionaries all over the world isn't actually the true definition, and the true definition of the word racism is something that hasn't been stated anywhere else in the world but this very board.

Or it could just be that you guys have refashioned the word to excuse your own racist ideology, based upon genetic superiority that's borne out of a coping mechanism from not having any actual power or superiority in this society and also not having the means to do anything about it.

 

[da_monumental_1]

are you REALLY this dishonest?


racism
[rey-siz-uh m]

Examples
Word Origin

noun
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human racial groups determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to dominate others or that a particular racial group is inferior to the others.

2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.


3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/racism?s=t

you posted only as much to support your argument, because posting ALL of the information would be too much like having an honest discussion.

damn shame.

Grand Opening. Grand Closing.

 

[Mrfreddygoodbud]

Trust me when I say that the people I speak of are those who hold the wealth, who are largely white. You think they give a fuck about poor whites getting melanoma, when the wealthy have the means to protect themselves?

They even view their own as shit, which is why they LOVE this simplistic ass battle of skin color between poor whites and poor blacks and poor poor poor.

Once we break down that barrier of race at the lowest level, we'll ALL turn our attention upwards at the REAL VILLAINS.

But I digress. Continue to fight your penny ante racist battles on a porn board. Good luck to you.

whose fighting, I know what I got to do son...and trust me..IM doing it...


Yeah I agree that the real enemy is on top looking down..

but I also know they cant do shit without their millions of puppet

bitchs who actually think they could ever make it to that parasitic

realm, but thats another discussion..


whats being discussed here is the institution of racism and how its not an individual thingy, but a system that has been implemented for over

hundreds of years... and is running on auto...



Again..


Name one time a black person denied a white person a place to live because of their color...


now the other way around been happening since whites got their homestead act, welfare, handout..

and free educational training...


It just happend about seven years ago in queens... a fuckin racist ol eastern european landlord, told a lawyer,

straight up, she dont rent to black people... in THIS millenium..

in NEW YORK CITY..


can you just name ONE just ONE time a black person denied a white person a place to live because of his skin tone?



JUST ONE!!!!


you know why you cant, because blacks are not racist..

sure they can be prejudice.... but never racist...


you have to have a savage gene,

that barbarian blood, to wipe out

races of people, and have teach their

children that YOU ARE a god...hence

white jesus all over the gotdam place...

then need to suck the life force out

of those people to survive..


not to mention a war mongering system that

constantly wages war on brown and black people..


most folks dont even know..

STDs are europes greatest gift to america

next to the rat..


they got folks thinking, the natives only died from

small pox....


its was all that shit and boatloads of herpes!!!!!


thanks a lot europe!!!!

 

[Nobody]

I'm going to adjust the emphasis to use the same definition to support my argument and destroy yours:

are you REALLY this dishonest?


racism
[rey-siz-uh m]

Examples
Word Origin

noun
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human racial groups determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to dominate others or that a particular racial group is inferior to the others.

2.a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.


3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/racism?s=t

you posted only as much to support your argument, because posting ALL of the information would be too much like having an honest discussion.

damn shame.

I thought you were smarter than this.


I don't understand why you bolded the second definition. There is absolutely no disagreement that the preeminent racism is in the form of white supremacy.

THAT is not what I am arguing.

What I AM arguing is that it is possible for there to be black racists and asian racists. However there is no system for black supremacy for there to be black racism on a systematic level. ONLY on a micro level does black racism currently exist.

The same goes for Asian racism.

You guys are arguing the impossibility of black or even asian racism.

Anyone with half a brain knows that there's no such thing as impossibilities.

I find it ironic that in quoting me and calling me dishonest you skip over the key word in the first definition - OR. There is no AND, it's an OR

The word or is a conjunction that is to present alternating ideas.

Therefore the first definition is essentially this

racism
[rey-siz-uh m]

Examples
Word Origin

noun
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human racial groups determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to dominate others.

2. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human racial groups determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that a particular racial group is inferior to the others.

The word OR is used to present the alternative, rather than do what i did above. Essentially white people used both aspects, the right to dominate others AND believing blacks are inferior, while people here do the second, believe white people are inferior, without having the capability to carry out the first, the domination.

And to add to it, the third definition of the word drives my point home.

3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

The first and third definition supports my assertion that non white people can be racist.

So it's not that I'm dishonest, it's just that you have trouble understanding grammar. I do not.

 

[Nobody]

If you want to have any chance of bringing about the end of white supremacy you have to be able to have a very nuanced argument on race.

You can't simply toss out colloquialisms like "black people can't be racist"

All that does is put everyone on the defensive and prevents them from hearing you out with an open mind. If you present it as such - that everyone can be racist but only one group has historically benefitted from racism in the form of white supremacy and that needs to come to an end...maybe there's a slightly better chance of reaching people and opening their minds.

But as usual, I digress.

 

[Mrfreddygoodbud]

Im going to tell you this one thing. Don't make weak ass assumptions of who I am, what I'm about or how I look. You doing so is just weak, to be honest, because there's nothing about my comments that even insinuate any of that. You simply take a line i said and extrapolate that to me. WEAK.

I know the value of health, I've coached plenty people on their health and its been a big money maker for me. My profession involves physical and mental health - trust me, you have no idea who I am or what I am about.

But, knowing that health is more valuable than wealth is not enough to forego wealth - not personal wealth but the wealth of a COMMUNITY.

THAT is what I call wealth. Look at our schools, homes, economic opportunities. If you feel that wealth is bullshit and something we shouldn't be concerned with attaining - then we'll be the ones dying out, if you haven't been paying attention to the news for the past few years.

But go ahead with your one liners. If you think there's anything you can teach me with these silly comments, I feel sorry for you with your delusions.

I'm really curious to know though, with all your talk about being genetically dominant if you're just another lard ass on here or if you are a representation of this genetic dominance in mind and body.

I doubt it.

Im sure I can run circles around you on any track, any day...

I maybe wrong but I doubt it....


But IF that WAS your definition of wealth... then we are in agreement..


I just dont think that is what you initially meant...


but if you want we can race... so I can put these burners on ya..


if you could make it to the audobon track and field on 168th street..


Id race ya in anything from the forty to the 800....


trust me...


I got da burners!!!!

 

[BigDaddyBuk]

I'm going to adjust the emphasis to use the same definition to support my argument and destroy yours:



I thought you were smarter than this.


I don't understand why you bolded the second definition. There is absolutely no disagreement that the preeminent racism is in the form of white supremacy.

THAT is not what I am arguing.

What I AM arguing is that it is possible for there to be black racists and asian racists. However there is no system for black supremacy for there to be black racism on a systematic level. ONLY on a micro level does black racism currently exist.

The same goes for Asian racism.

You guys are arguing the impossibility of black or even asian racism.

Anyone with half a brain knows that there's no such thing as impossibilities.

I find it ironic that in quoting me and calling me dishonest you skip over the key word in the first definition - OR. There is no AND, it's an OR

The word or is a conjunction that is to present alternating ideas.

Therefore the first definition is essentially this




The word OR is used to present the alternative, rather than do what i did above. Essentially white people used both aspects, the right to dominate others AND believing blacks are inferior, while people here do the second, believe white people are inferior, without having the capability to carry out the first, the domination.

And to add to it, the third definition of the word drives my point home.



The first and third definition supports my assertion that non white people can be racist.

So it's not that I'm dishonest, it's just that you have trouble understanding grammar. I do not.

there is no history to support non whites being racist against whites in the U.S.

and you were still dishonest to leave out the parts of the definition that didnt fit your narrative.

racism is ACTION, NOT DISLIKE.

anything said to the contrary is not a matter of disagreement, its a LIE.

 

[Nobody]

Im sure I can run circles around you on any track, any day...

I maybe wrong but I doubt it....


But IF that WAS your definition of wealth... then we are in agreement..


I just dont think that is what you initially meant...


but if you want we can race... so I can put these burners on ya..


if you could make it to the audobon track and field on 168th street..


Id race ya in anything from the forty to the 800....


trust me...


I got da burners!!!!

Only if we do a chin-up and pull-up contest.

27 chin-ups and 25 pull-ups is my current record

Listen man. I'm about the improvement and the advancement of our needs. Fuck all the other shit, what I see in the world is a bunch of people who don't give a fuck on their side, and a behemoth of a system designed to keep us down. On our side I see people waste their time worrying about the trivial shit.

We may be melanin rich, but that's not enough and we shouldn't rest our laurels on that. We may not have a system of black supremacy, but we can be racist towards whites.
My argument is simple. If we can find a reason to claim superiority then we legitimize anyone who finds their own reason for superiority. PERIOD.

 

[Nobody]

there is no history to support non whites being racist against whites in the U.S.

and you were still dishonest to leave out the parts of the definition that didnt fit your narrative.

racism is ACTION, NOT DISLIKE.

anything said to the contrary is not a matter of disagreement, its a LIE.

I can't fuck with you. You're arguing like my ex girlfriend right now.

You wanted to come at me hard over the definition and I took the definition you came to me with and ripped your argument to shreds

The fact is, I got my definition from one place, you got yours from another. I STILL was able to find my point and crush yours using the definition YOU brought.

I'm not going to bother with you, because you just argue in circles.

You're proving the thread title to be prophetic.

 

[II Dxnum]

fuck I thought , coward. now get back to your lesson.

don't go down that road if that ain't what you want.

 

[Nobody]

fuck I thought , coward. now get back to your lesson.

don't go down that road if that ain't what you want.

i gotta laugh at you.

here we have men and women slugging it out. we may go at each other pretty hard but we're having a discussion.

you're on the sidelines like a little punk bitch screaming some other shit. man, you're so fucking lame it's actually amusing

 

[II Dxnum]

goddamn this janky ass site.

your goofy ass introduced the silly shit and no want to act like youre a mature adult above it all. lol

get back to the back and forth with the weed head scholar.

 

[phanatic]

Therein lies my point. There's varying degrees and scopes of power, but it's still power.

So it's entirely possible for non whites to have some degree and scope of power and use that to be racist.

Many people think it's solely limited to whites, but thinking that way helps justify it and perpetuate it on the larger scale that affects us.

So to me, the racist belief of being superior to whites simply because we're black is a hinderance and racism.

The system is white supremacy built upon the engine of racism- specifically the belief that whites are superior to all other racial groups.

You guys have taken the whole thing and twisted it simplistically. It's far more nuanced than you think.

If I consider being influential as power, then black people can be rascist, but those black people just pander to white people aka the coon.

 

[Mello Mello]

they are intellectual cowards that's why it's almost pointless to argue with them. They think no further than the false stereotypical beliefs that all black people are no good, lazy violent and over sexed. Trying to use logic or facts with a racist is a waste of breathe because they refuse to see the truth, they are scared of it, they are cowards as the title says. The truth hurts.

 

[JamesATL]

u gotta be kidding me..