Pacquiao prepares for 'no' from Mayweather Jr.

This last post is so riddled with biasness that I'm not even going to respond... I'll just say that you are the FIRST person I have heard say that Floyd barely won the Castillo rematch. Jim Lampley is quoted saying floyd won the rematch more one sided than the first fight but yet the scores were closer. I see you made excuses for Pac's close fights but you didn't mention Floyd had a shoulder injury in the first Castillo fight. As for Floyd being rocked and dropped... Come on man!!! Yea his glove barely touched the damn ground against Zab... So much so that it wasn't even counted as a knockdown. If you want to reach and credit floyd with being dropped for a knockdown that's not on his record than go on. We both know we don't have to stretch to find how many times Manny has hit the canvas... So Pac is a better fighter now since he got his ass whupped by Marquez and Morales but Floyd isn't a better fighter. Don't forget what Floyd just did to Shane when Freddie Roach himself told Shane he was TOO GOOD for Pac and that he would NEVER make that fight. NOT EVEN IF HE CAME DOWN TO 140!

I'm just talking about the scores. Personally I thought Floyd won by a little more than the two points the judges gave him. I didn't make any excuses for Pac's close fights. If you are referring to the Morales fight, I don't even remember it being close. I remember Morales schooling Pac. Sure Manny has hit the canvas several times but he's not supposed to be the greatest defensive fighter, Mayweather is. All I'm saying is Mayweather's defense is not as solid as it seems, IMO. I would have like to have seen it be tested against fresher, stiffer opposition, instead of against Baldomir, Gatti, Bruseles, etc. When it was tested against stiffer opposition like Judah and Mosley, his defense did not seem as stellar especially in those early rounds. That leads me to believe that the Pac fight will not be as easy as some think.
 
I am in a position to have an opinion that is expressed.

Unless you've been trained by both senior Mayweathers, you are not in a position to say they're interchangeable as trainers. How would you know better than the junior Mayweather?

Well. I at least expect if you state something as fact then you can back it up. I agree with them not taking stuff to the public. But it is fine with me as long as it doesn't derail the fight. And so far nothing has been said to derail the fight.


I posted the first comment by a legitimate source that I could find but when it became apparent that you wanted something very, very specific, I stopped because that's the type of games I hate when people play.

Announcing a very public deadline isn't a ploy to derail the fight?
 
I agree regarding Manny's reach disadvantage and other intangibles and that's why I think the fight is a toss up. I've never said that I expect Manny to steamroll Mayweather. I just think it's a difficult fight for both guys. Therefore, I disagree when some state that Mayweather will just easily walk through Manny.

Regarding the competition comparisons. Yes, Mayweather has been dominant since his fight with Castillo 8 years ago but IMO that's more of a testament to how May's quality of competition has dipped. After Mayweather fought Castillo (he only won by two points in the rematch), when did he ever again face a fresh or young champion in their prime in his own weight class? Never!

After Castillo, he followed up with Ndou, Bruseles, Corley, Gatti, etc, so of course he was going to remain dominant. The level of competition in that same time period was just poor when compared to Pac's IMO. Sure Pac lost to Morales but before that he beat Barrera. Barrera obviously wasn't shot because he bounced back, became a champ again and made several defenses. Pac has been dominant for several years while testing himself against better fighters than Bruseles, Gatti, etc.

Dude now I remember why I couldn't stand debating w/ you... Your selective bias! I love who you leave out the quality opponents or same opponents Manny fought after Floyd and just put "etc"! I really did my best to give you respect as a fan, but you totally discredit yourself when you label Manny as this warrior and Floyd as a overrated coward. They both had basically the same level of competition in the last 5-10 years, leaning a little in favor of Manny. The huge difference is Manny has lost and drawn in that time and Floyd is undefeated(agruably lost once though)! And the Barrera reference? Save Morales(and maybe Nassem), Barrera was more of a oppurtunist than either fighter in this discussion. Both fighters, Manny and Floyd, have padded their resumes w/ either over-matched, punch-drunk, or under-sized opponents. If you'd stop drinking the Pacman punch, your valid points would be recognized much clearer.
 
Dude now I remember why I couldn't stand debating w/ you... Your selective bias! I love who you leave out the quality opponents or same opponents Manny fought after Floyd and just put "etc"! I really did my best to give you respect as a fan, but you totally discredit yourself when you label Manny as this warrior and Floyd as a overrated coward. They both had basically the same level of competition in the last 5-10 year, leaning a little in favor of Manny. The huge difference is Manny has lost and drawn if that time and Floyd is undefeated(agruably lost once though)! And the Barrera reference? Save Morales(and maybe Nassem), Barrera was more of a oppurtunist than either fighter in this discussion. Both fighters, Manny and Floyd, have padded their resumes w/ either over-matched, punch-drunk, or under-sized opponents. If you'd stop drinking the Pacman punch, your valid points would be recognized much clearer.

:lol::lol::lol:

You'll learn not to get sucked in. I'm sure there are other fights and fighters to talk about, I'm more willing to talk about them with him than Mayweather.
For the record, I don't think he's so much pro-Pac but anti-Mayweather.
 
:lol::lol::lol:

You'll learn not to get sucked in. I'm sure there are other fights and fighters to talk about, I'm more willing to talk about them with him than Mayweather.
For the record, I don't think he's so much pro-Pac but anti-Mayweather.

:smh:I know Dave, I know.... I just refuse to beleive someone who has the ability to be insightful, can't see through their own bullshit. It's the educator in me.
 
Unless you've been trained by both senior Mayweathers, you are not in a position to say they're interchangeable as trainers. How would you know better than the junior Mayweather?




I posted the first comment by a legitimate source that I could find but when it became apparent that you wanted something very, very specific, I stopped because that's the type of games I hate when people play.

Announcing a very public deadline isn't a ploy to derail the fight?


???? I can't have an opinion on a subject unless I am intimate with the players? Lol, that makes no sense.
 
???? I can't have an opinion on a subject unless I am intimate with the players? Lol, that makes no sense.

You can but it's completely weightless and meaningless. How can a person who hasn't been trained by either of the seniors say whether they're "interchangeable" or not? So what I'm saying is you (not just you but all people) cannot have intelligent opinions on intimate matters without knowing the parties involved.
 
you can but it's completely weightless and meaningless. How can a person who hasn't been trained by either of the seniors say whether they're "interchangeable" or not? So what i'm saying is you (not just you but all people) cannot have intelligent opinions on intimate matters without knowing the parties involved.

wow
 
:smh:I know Dave, I know.... I just refuse to beleive someone who has the ability to be insightful, can't see through their own bullshit. It's the educator in me.

believe me it is true.... I've wasted so much time debating and arguing with dude. I've learned not to respond...
 
Dude now I remember why I couldn't stand debating w/ you... Your selective bias! I love who you leave out the quality opponents or same opponents Manny fought after Floyd and just put "etc"! I really did my best to give you respect as a fan, but you totally discredit yourself when you label Manny as this warrior and Floyd as a overrated coward. They both had basically the same level of competition in the last 5-10 years, leaning a little in favor of Manny. The huge difference is Manny has lost and drawn in that time and Floyd is undefeated(agruably lost once though)! And the Barrera reference? Save Morales(and maybe Nassem), Barrera was more of a oppurtunist than either fighter in this discussion. Both fighters, Manny and Floyd, have padded their resumes w/ either over-matched, punch-drunk, or under-sized opponents. If you'd stop drinking the Pacman punch, your valid points would be recognized much clearer.

:lol: I have not labelled Floyd as a coward. I don't think there's any post where I've even said I thought he was scared. You're misunderstanding me. If anything, I think Floyd just doesn't give a fuck about boxing or the fans. I think he just cares about his ego and money. Everybody gets beat and I think Floyd knows this. Floyd is trying to make money and avoid that day at the same time.

Even you say Manny had better competition than Floyd over the same time period so I don't see where the controversy is. Manny has lost and drawn but people say Floyd lost against Castillo too. Manny drew against Marquez but he would have won had that judge scored the first round correctly. Even the judge later said he scored the round wrong. Furthermore, Manny was fighting better and fresher champs and contenders in 126 and 130 pounds for every year from 2003 straight through 2008. Marquez and Barrera were the best at 126 and 130 when he fought them and he fought them multiple times without losing. Meanwhile, Mayweather was fighting Mitchell, Gatti, Judah coming off of a loss to a bum, then he fought the bum too, then he fought DLH and barely won stinking out the joint, and then he fought a smaller Hatton that was never worth shit at 147. Then he did that again with Marquez. At least he beat Mosley but damn, look how long it took and as worn as Mosley was he still rocked the hell out of the so called untouchable Mayweather.

After Mayweather fought Castillo way back in 2001 or 2002, when did he ever fight the best in his own division again? It'd probably be Mosley in 2010.
 
You can but it's completely weightless and meaningless. How can a person who hasn't been trained by either of the seniors say whether they're "interchangeable" or not? So what I'm saying is you (not just you but all people) cannot have intelligent opinions on intimate matters without knowing the parties involved.

I will add unless some who has had that relationship stated it. If Roger, Floyd sr. or jr. stated something like this than I could see a argument being made....
 
believe me it is true.... I've wasted so much time debating and arguing with dude. I've learned not to respond...

No, you do respond but you do it indirectly like a pussy with you're usual comments about "cats" and "niggas" not seeing the light and the rest of your bullshit. Meanwhile, I respond to you directly because I don't give a fuck.
 
:lol::lol::lol:

You'll learn not to get sucked in. I'm sure there are other fights and fighters to talk about, I'm more willing to talk about them with him than Mayweather.
For the record, I don't think he's so much pro-Pac but anti-Mayweather.

You're like 90% right with that. However, I will just say I am anti any fighter that thinks they are bigger than the whole sport. Even back in the day, I never liked the whole sport riding on De La Hoya. I dislike it even more that Mayweather says things like "all roads lead to Mayweather", he's better than Ray Robinson, and a bunch of shit and yet the guy rarely fights and the big fights are not being made.

I just want to see fights period. That's one reason why I didn't think the deadline idea was bad. At least if Pac's going to fight, the fans will know that a fight's going to happen and have something to look forward to. With Mayweather, everything's a fucking mystery. You have Time Magazine, MMA, and most observers looking on this whole Mayweather thing as some kind of farce. It's not good for boxing. All the attention is being placed on these two guys when there are other hot matches that need to be made and paid attention to.
 
I will add unless some who has had that relationship stated it. If Roger, Floyd sr. or jr. stated something like this than I could see a argument being made....

Lol. Dumb ass logic say in a thread where it nothing but people who are not intimate with negotiation expressing opinions on the subject. Lol, the bs written on here cracks me up.
 
Lol. Dumb ass logic say in a thread where it nothing but people who are not intimate with negotiation expressing opinions on the subject. Lol, the bs written on here cracks me up.

I thought we were talking about whether Floyd Sr. and Roger were basically the same and interchangeable as trainers. To say that with any legitimacy you would have had to experience that training from some angle, have some knowledge from someone who has experience it or something close those options to base it on. If not your talking out of your ass which is cool, but niggas will call you on it and that happened in this thread on a couple of topics...
 
http://espn.go.com/sports/boxing/blog/_/name/boxing/id/5388379/floyd-way-no-way

Some things that could be stated without hesitation about Floyd Mayweather, even before he allowed Bob Arum's deadline to pass at 3 a.m. ET Saturday, placing the possibility of a fight with Manny Pacquiao once more in serious doubt:

• He is a phenomenal boxer, a generational talent who displays artistry in the ring that almost demands admiration.

• However high someone else's opinion might be of his ability and his place in the historical firmament, it is unlikely to be quite as high as his own.

• He is, most assuredly, his own man.

If it is the first point that has gathered him legions of fans, and the second that has helped generate an approximately equal army of detractors, it is the third point that is almost certainly most relevant as we look anew on what appear to be, for the second time in eight months, the charred embers of what had promised to be the richest fight in boxing history.

Mayweather has earned millions upon millions of dollars, not solely through pugilistic brilliance but by applying a single-minded focus to his career, in the ring and out of it. He speaks of the fact that he is his own boss almost as frequently as he mentions his undefeated record. To Mayweather, it is a matter of immense pride and satisfaction that he marches to the beat of his own drum, that he takes orders from no one.

Floyd Mayweather, in other words, doesn't do deadlines. Not other people's deadlines, at least.

There was always the slight suspicion when Top Rank declared some months back that Pacquiao would be fighting Nov. 13, be it against Mayweather or some other foe, that the Pretty Boy's nose would slip a little out of joint. Once Arum began speaking publicly of deadlines, the likelihood of Mayweather meeting a cutoff date that was presumably not of his choosing seemed increasingly improbable.

Arum has handled this skillfully. He is, of course, within his rights to insist upon a deadline -- Pacquiao has an especially convoluted schedule, and a major fight needs time to be developed and promoted. Plus, the immediate futures of a good many other boxers in the welterweight and junior middleweight divisions are contingent on the Pacquiao-Mayweather situation reaching resolution.

Once he was convinced that Mayweather would not sign on time, Arum got out in front of the story, placing a countdown clock on the Top Rank website and hosting a conference call in the middle of the night to make it perfectly clear that it was Mayweather's side, not his, that was responsible for the fight falling through.

At the same time, Arum remained careful to leave the door open, either for a last-minute reversal of fortune or a third round of negotiations for 2011. He treaded carefully so as not to impugn Mayweather's reputation or question his motives.

If the fight is indeed about to fall by the wayside again, Mayweather will almost certainly take the great majority of the criticism for it, and -- if he has indeed been negotiating, and agreeing to, the finer points of the agreement, only to step inside a cone of silence -- deservedly so.

The irony is that some of that criticism may be stunted by Arum's expressions of understanding, however heartfelt they may be. While the proximate cause of negotiations collapsing last year was Mayweather's insistence on random drug testing and Pacquiao's opposition to it, that was just the match that lit the fuel of mutual loathing between the promoter and his erstwhile charge. The resultant explosion scattered shrapnel in the form of recriminations, accusations and even a lawsuit.

So far at least, that hasn't happened this time. Cold-hearted business calculus has replaced hot-headed animus. Who knows if any of the proposed reasons for Mayweather balking -- uncle Roger Mayweather Jr.'s legal issues [Roger serves as Floyd's trainer], the lack of desire for a second fight in 2010 after the massive windfall from the destruction of Shane Mosley in May, a deep-rooted fear that maybe he is not quite the fighter he used to be -- are the correct ones? Perhaps, contrary to the prevailing wisdom, Mayweather simply wasn't happy with the contract's provisions. Maybe he just didn't want to be told what to sign and when to sign it.

Until he decides to explain his side of the story, it is all just speculation. And right now, he isn't talking.

It's possible that Mayweather will emerge from seclusion next week and the fight will be back on. Or perhaps he'll keep his head down. Maybe he'll announce he doesn't want to fight again before next year. Then, at some point, the drum beats will start again and we'll build, for a third time, to the possibility of a showdown between the planet's two best fighters.

By the time it finally happens -- if it ever does -- it is an open question whether fans' enthusiasm and excitement will be tempered by a skeptical weariness.

One thing seems certain: Whatever Mayweather ultimately does or does not agree to, it will be on his terms.
 
:lol: I have not labelled Floyd as a coward. I don't think there's any post where I've even said I thought he was scared. You're misunderstanding me. If anything, I think Floyd just doesn't give a fuck about boxing or the fans. I think he just cares about his ego and money. Everybody gets beat and I think Floyd knows this. Floyd is trying to make money and avoid that day at the same time.

Even you say Manny had better competition than Floyd over the same time period so I don't see where the controversy is. Manny has lost and drawn but people say Floyd lost against Castillo too. Manny drew against Marquez but he would have won had that judge scored the first round correctly. Even the judge later said he scored the round wrong. Furthermore, Manny was fighting better and fresher champs and contenders in 126 and 130 pounds for every year from 2003 straight through 2008. Marquez and Barrera were the best at 126 and 130 when he fought them and he fought them multiple times without losing. Meanwhile, Mayweather was fighting Mitchell, Gatti, Judah coming off of a loss to a bum, then he fought the bum too, then he fought DLH and barely won stinking out the joint, and then he fought a smaller Hatton that was never worth shit at 147. Then he did that again with Marquez. At least he beat Mosley but damn, look how long it took and as worn as Mosley was he still rocked the hell out of the so called untouchable Mayweather.

After Mayweather fought Castillo way back in 2001 or 2002, when did he ever fight the best in his own division again? It'd probably be Mosley in 2010.

When I said you were labeling Floyd a coward, I was being extreme in the same way you are when you talk about the disparities between the two fighters resumes. There is basically no difference when you compare their recent history and you keep mentioning PBFs suspect opponents and leave out all the mid and lower teir fighters Manny faced, which where several. Saying that Manny fought fresher fighter doesn't make it true, especially when all those "fresher" fighters you mentioned had between 44 to 68 fights under their belts when he fought them. And if you look at their earlier championship years(Fly & Bantam to Feather & Light), Floyds resume is much more solid. Some of your points are valid, but your facts are jaded.

And I'm all for focusing on other fights, this is exhausting
 
The crappy thing is that there is no fight for Manny but a fight with pbf. Pbf on the other hand has options. Pwill, sm, cotto, or spinks. This isn't a bad thing for boxing, but it isn't a good thing either. But then again it is just my opinion. I am not an insider, trainer, match maker, or a promoter. I'm a fan with an opinion, lol.
 
It was three in the morning Saturday on the East Coast when Bob Arum delivered the bad news. The 78-year-old chairman of Top Rank, boxing’s preeminent promotional company, called a news conference in the middle of the night to tell the world that there was no deal for Manny Pacquiao to fight Floyd Mayweather Jr.

Yet.

Sadly, if there is going to be one, it almost certainly won’t be until May 2011. A Top Rank-imposed deadline of 11:59 p.m. Pacific on Friday for Mayweather to accept an offer on the table for a Nov. 13 fight with Pacquiao passed with nary a peep from Mayweather or his representatives.

The deadline, Arum said, was simply the end of an exclusive negotiation period for a Mayweather-Pacquiao fight.

A fight between them could have sold three million pay-per-view purchases and made each man upwards of $60 million.

Pacquiao is going to have to take a significant pay cut to fight either Margarito or Cotto, which he can’t be pleased about. He likely wouldn’t make any more than about a quarter of what he would have made if he were fighting Mayweather, though Arum said on the call that he wouldn’t discuss that until after he speaks with Pacquiao.

The possibility of still doing a Mayweather-Pacquiao fight has to be one of the primary reasons that Arum struck an unusually conciliatory tone on Saturday. He urged the media not to lash out against Mayweather for failing to respond.

 
The crappy thing is that there is no fight for Manny but a fight with pbf. Pbf on the other hand has options. Pwill, sm, cotto, or spinks. This isn't a bad thing for boxing, but it isn't a good thing either. But then again it is just my opinion. I am not an insider, trainer, match maker, or a promoter. I'm a fan with an opinion, lol.

Your funny because you don't even realize the difference between your opinions. some opinions can be so subjective that they don't have to be backed up with anything and some shit requires some factual basis to reasonable be accepted.

For example: I think more people like pears than prunes, which is similar to your match-up opinion. Some could argue it with but neither party in wrong per se because their isn't a fact out there to disprove either opinion and the opinions are subjective enough to stand on their own.

Now lets say my opinion was that farmer A and farmer B grow the same quality of pears. The first question in everyone's mind would be what are you basing this on.... If you have nothing to base that opinion on, people will not accept it...
 
Your funny because you don't even realize the difference between your opinions. some opinions can be so subjective that they don't have to be backed up with anything and some shit requires some factual basis to reasonable be accepted.

For example: I think more people like pears than prunes, which is similar to your match-up opinion. Some could argue it with but neither party in wrong per se because their isn't a fact out there to disprove either opinion and the opinions are subjective enough to stand on their own.

Now lets say my opinion was that farmer A and farmer B grow the same quality of pears. The first question in everyone's mind would be what are you basing this on.... If you have nothing to base that opinion on, people will not accept it...

Logic is a beautiful thing.
 
The crappy thing is that there is no fight for Manny but a fight with pbf. Pbf on the other hand has options. Pwill, sm, cotto, or spinks. This isn't a bad thing for boxing, but it isn't a good thing either. But then again it is just my opinion. I am not an insider, trainer, match maker, or a promoter. I'm a fan with an opinion, lol.

I see it as the exact opposite. Williams, Martinez, Cotto and Spinks are jr. middles or middleweights and to make any of those fights would mean some catchweight bullshit that (hopefully) none of them would bite on. If any of them could campaign at welter, they would still be at welter. In addition, not one of them has any ppv track record of note except Cotto.
Manny has Margarito as a definite but I see any talk of him and Cotto rematching as just talk. With Cotto and Steward not going for another catchweight fight, I don't see him legitimately moving up to 154.
 
Damn Mayweather ducking like shit. Straight bitch move, especially with someone with an ego like that. :smh::smh:

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What some of you guys call logic I simply just see a circle jerk of cosigning. You guys are funny.

Well I think you might need to step back and think about this. Could you be wrong?


Or is everybody wrong because they don't agree with the way you look at things? :lol: Its funny because your complaining about the logic but you are not providing alternatives or even explaining how my logic is flawed.
 
Well I think you might need to step back and think about this. Could you be wrong?


Or is everybody wrong because they don't agree with the way you look at things? :lol: Its funny because your complaining about the logic but you are not providing alternatives or even explaining how my logic is flawed.


Of course everyone else is wrong. I've seen this show before and changed the channel, Alaska. I broke it down and tried to leave all of my standard sarcasm and condescension out and he continued being obtuse.
Fine.
 
Searched "Mayweather" :dunno:

Well whats the inside word on the delay?

Since we're 4 pages deep, I'd advise you to go to the first page of this thread.
It's not necessarily that all ESPN venues are filled by ignoramuses but when it comes to boxing, none of the television guys (except the guys that work Friday Night Boxing) know dick about boxing. Arum's smart and knows that, so he can pull shit like this and put it on Mayweather with no one to call him out.
 
Yea I got caught up yesterday. I didnt know they had a deal barring press involvement. My bad. Understood now.


Since we're 4 pages deep, I'd advise you to go to the first page of this thread.
It's not necessarily that all ESPN venues are filled by ignoramuses but when it comes to boxing, none of the television guys (except the guys that work Friday Night Boxing) know dick about boxing. Arum's smart and knows that, so he can pull shit like this and put it on Mayweather with no one to call him out.
 
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