Official BREAKING BAD Season 4 Discussion Thread 10p SUNDAYS

[O.J PIMPSON]

I think it was Gus. Think, when Jesse got that phone call in the lab and Gus told him it was Walt's fault that the cops were upstairs, Jesse still wouldn't green light the hit on Walt. Jesse asked him what then, and he said he'll go another route. Not saying getting rid of the cops(at least not to me) but in pushing Jesse to finally give up on Walt and let it happen. I also think leaving Mike out there was planning by Gus because Mike began to take to Jesse, and considering how he basically brought him along on his side the way Walt did on his end, would begin to ride for Jesse in some way, Walt was his drug father and Mike was his gangster father.

As for Gus and his super vision bullshit I ain't feeling that. He was looking out there strange from the time they began walking back to the car. Also Jesse didn't say the boy was poisoned, it would give it away, he said he was sick, him and Walt had a long convo about that plan, and no way would Walt allow the words poisoned to be uttered. Everybody playing chess, the first mistake and somebody is getting checkmated.

Lastly I say someone will die but not only one will be shot............and I think Mike provides the seasons final bullet. I'm just saying

 

[Helico-pterFunk]

I think it was Gus. Think, when Jesse got that phone call in the lab and Gus told him it was Walt's fault that the cops were upstairs, Jesse still wouldn't green light the hit on Walt. Jesse asked him what then, and he said he'll go another route. Not saying getting rid of the cops(at least not to me) but in pushing Jesse to finally give up on Walt and let it happen. I also think leaving Mike out there was planning by Gus because Mike began to take to Jesse, and considering how he basically brought him along on his side the way Walt did on his end, would begin to ride for Jesse in some way, Walt was his drug father and Mike was his gangster father.

As for Gus and his super vision bullshit I ain't feeling that. He was looking out there strange from the time they began walking back to the car. Also Jesse didn't say the boy was poisoned, it would give it away, he said he was sick, him and Walt had a long convo about that plan, and no way would Walt allow the words poisoned to be uttered. Everybody playing chess, the first mistake and somebody is getting checkmated.

Lastly I say someone will die but not only one will be shot............and I think Mike provides the seasons final bullet. I'm just saying

Good take, OJP.

 

[GAMETHEORY]

For example I don't understand what happened to the ricin ciggie, how Gus knew about it, what he did with it and why Jesse thought Walt would poison Brock.

 

[LSN]

Also Jesse didn't say the boy was poisoned

Actually he did...I'm very sure of it...he told Gus the boy wasn't sick...he was poisoned...

 

[KP404]

Actually he did...I'm very sure of it...he told Gus the boy wasn't sick...he was poisoned...

sure did...

 

[Helico-pterFunk]

For example I don't understand what happened to the ricin ciggie, how Gus knew about it, what he did with it and why Jesse thought Walt would poison Brock.

Walt and Jesse are both questioning themselves and one another. Jesse's been spending the bulk of his time with Gus and Mike. Walt and Jesse had their serious falling out a few episodes back, and there's already been doubt cast amongst the two of them over the seasons. Gus is trying to divide the wedge even further, Walt's paranoid as fuck and scared, and Jesse's a lost soul and recovering junkie who doesn't know where his alliance is, but plays hard by putting on the tough front (he's still shaken after blasting Gale in the grill).

 

[BenQ]

I just rewached the episode today and that saul and jessie scene was weird

First the fat dude frisking jessie,the camera doesnt show his hands , he could have taken or put something in jessies pockets ,cigarettes

Saul tells jessie what happened to walter and Jessie is like "what" and saul than says nothing forget it" it seemed staged


This show got better writers than the wire

Hopefully nextweek they will say who really poison the kid if anybody actually did it

 

[LSN]

Ya the Saul Jesse scene was weird...Saul telling Jesse about the Gus thing is what put the seeds of doubt in Jesse mind...that's when he went home and was thinking on the couch...Saul did make a lil comment too about he hope he's playing the right side when he told Jesse to put in a good word for him w/ Mike I think or somebody...I believe Jesse now in that he had that cig pack when he said he did...it had to be Gus/Walt that did that shit...I'm leaning toward Walt tho...cuz as clairvoyant as Gus seems to be Walt knew more about the poisoned cig

I just rewached the episode today and that saul and jessie scene was weird

First the fat dude frisking jessie,the camera doesnt show his hands , he could have taken or put something in jessies pockets ,cigarettes

Saul tells jessie what happened to walter and Jessie is like "what" and saul than says nothing forget it" it seemed staged


This show got better writers than the wire

Hopefully nextweek they will say who really poison the kid if anybody actually did it

 

[O.J PIMPSON]

My mistake if that was what he said, don't recall him saying he was poisoned

 

[LSN]

My mistake if that was what he said, don't recall him saying he was poisoned

Well recall it muthafucka!

Na lemme stop...but for real...that's another scene I need to rewatch cuz if anything that was probably the moment Gus kept replaying in his head as he was walking to the car...then it probably dawned on him that Jesse feels he's responsible

 

[Give Me 3ft.]

i just thought the lil kid

tried to smoke 1 of jessies smokes, & did it to himself

accidently.

 

[playahaitian]

Good share, BenQ.

excellent

I felt this season they were showing Walt, he was "playing" as drug kingpin Heisenberg (and not very well) but Gus was the REAL Heisenberg.

I still felt bad that the bond that was one of the core the basis of the show was how Jesse become more of a "son" and "family" for Walt, and their bond this season had crumbled and EASILY manipulated Jesse was.

I loved that after EVERYTHING Jesse was STILL loyal.

I do think Walt wouldn't poison the kid because if the kid died and ...

and Jesse did something crazy like kill HIMSELF , he couldn't live with the guilt.

Outstanding series...

 

[dtownsfinest]

i just thought the lil kid

tried to smoke 1 of jessies smokes, & did it to himself

accidently.

Yea which is why it was weird that Jesse blamed Walt. It made no sense. This show doesn't commit silly plot holes like that.

 

[KP404]

excellent

I felt this season they were showing Walt, he was "playing" as drug kingpin Heisenberg (and not very well) but Gus was the REAL Heisenberg.

I still felt bad that the bond that was one of the core the basis of the show was how Jesse become more of a "son" and "family" for Walt, and their bond this season had crumbled and EASILY manipulated Jesse was.

I loved that after EVERYTHING Jesse was STILL loyal.

I do think Walt wouldn't poison the kid because if the kid died and ...

and Jesse did something crazy like kill HIMSELF , he couldn't live with the guilt.

Outstanding series...

Nah I think next season, Walt will go full Heisenberg against his brother in law and run the drug cartels of the Southwest...he still hasn't broken fully bad yet

On a side note, Walt has killed or been responsible for alot of deaths since the show began

 

[playahaitian]

Nah I think next season, Walt will go full Heisenberg against his brother in law and run the drug cartels of the Southwest...he still hasn't broken fully bad yet

On a side note, Walt has killed or been responsible for alot of deaths since the show began

But he always felt they were NOBLE...

like Jessie's girlfriend, or Tuco, etc.

Gus has NEVER even feigned that kind of charity...

But I think the reason the series resonates because we can all connect with Walt and UNDERSTAND why he does what he does...

W even understand Hank's dedication to his job or His wife's devotion despite the verbal abuse, or even Gus' motivations (greed, power, revenge) and Walt's son need to be depended on by his family and not seen as weak...

I think The only character that reacts like a stereotypical TV Wife is Skylar and that is why she is so hated on.

Even Jesse we root for as the loser who finally makes good...

 

[cranrab]

Yea which is why it was weird that Jesse blamed Walt. It made no sense. This show doesn't commit silly plot holes like that.

i thought that was plausible enough.

jesse thought/knew that only he and walt knew about the ricin.

the part i found incredible was when knucklehead jesse was able to make the leap between the boy's illness and ricin. i know walt explained the symptomology to jesse before, but i don't see jesse as the sort of person capable of that type of recall.

 

[cranrab]

Isn't it purely speculative that Gus poisoned the kid?

yes. it is purely speculation.

but i lean toward that explanation.

gustavo's emphasis on "appropriate" action being taken. since jesse declared walt off limits, gustavo improvised.

i would entertain other scenarios if not for the post-chapel meeting. gus pieced it all together in time, figured out the ruse to draw him into the open, and changed his plans accordingly.

Anybody ever think that maybe Gus had one of his goons watching his vehicle while he went into the hospital?

possible, but i don't subscribe to that.

 

[cranrab]

If gus was behind everything

Wouldn't he had people follow jessie to make sure if he really kill Walter

Or to confirm if Walter was dead

because there's nothing to gain by following jesse.

if gustavo's ploy to turn jesse and walt against each other was successful (and resulted in walt's demise) he would learn of it soon enough.

if jesse did not murder walt in anger, gustavo would simply reload and try again with another scheme.

so no need to allocate manpower to tail jesse; gustavo merely has to let the hand play itself out.

 

[cranrab]

Y'all know I WANTED for them to make it easy, as u see Gus walking, u see that reflection of glass of the binoculars, giving Walt's position away.

i too, feared that the director would take the weak/easy way out. i was glad to see that the show didn't go that route.

it would've been easy to shoot from walt's POV and have gustavo looking dead at the camera, but that would've been cheese.

better the viewers see gustavo's mind racing and deducing the next step.

but there is a major red flag. IF we assume that gustavo had the boy poisoned with the pilfered ricin, THEN we know the conversation in the chapel was merely a test of jesse's loyalty (to gustavo). when jesse played dumb, that confirmed that jesse's allegiance was with walt.

gustavo's didn't have spidey-sense or a 6th sense that warned him of danger. he merely figured out walt's ruse to lure him into the open.

the bothersome part is that the writers seem to have painted themselves into a corner. from gustavo's POV, walt's betrayal means walt must die. from gustavo's POV, jesse taking part in walt's murder plot means jesse must die.

 

[mnstrmouf]

they still havent said what happened to skylar's old boss either.......

 

[LSN]

i thought that was plausible enough.

jesse thought/knew that only he and walt knew about the ricin.

the part i found incredible was when knucklehead jesse was able to make the leap between the boy's illness and ricin. i know walt explained the symptomology to jesse before, but i don't see jesse as the sort of person capable of that type of recall.

He realized that could be it when he went out for a smoke from the pack where he kept the ricin cig...not too far of a stretch @ all

 

[cranrab]

they still havent said what happened to skylar's old boss either.......

didn't they say he died when he tried to escape saul's goons?

 

[cranrab]

He realized that could be it when he went out for a smoke from the pack where he kept the ricin cig...not too far of a stretch @ all

we're talking about the logic of a tweaker who arrived at the preposterous conclusion that WALT poisoned the boy.

that same drug addled mind was somehow able to conclude that there was a link between his missing ricin and the boy's illness? for me that's a HUGE stretch.

it would be more believable if you had said that jesse suspected gustavo had lifted the ricin days earlier in order to carry out the slaughter at the joint in mexico.

 

[coolie569]

didn't they say he died when he tried to escape saul's goons?

Not exactly. They only hinted at what happened. Saul acting like he was calling Skylar and says something like "Oh yeah and by the way your friend is...." never finished the sentence.

 

[mnstrmouf]

didn't they say he died when he tried to escape saul's goons?

they didnt "say". they implied something happened to him

 

[coolie569]

I'm not saying it's likely, but the more I think about it, the more I believe Walter poisoned that kid. Think about it. Who has the most to gain by that if not Walter? Jesse thinks he knows Walter and knows what Walt is capable of and not capable of. All Walter would have to do is convince him that he's not capable of hurting a child. Once he does that then Walter overturns all the good will Gustavo has built up with Jesse and gets him on his side.

What would Gustavo have to gain by poisoning the kid? Nothing really!Other then a pissed off Jesse. Which is bad for business. Let's face it business is what matters to Gustavo. Gustavo doesn't need to prove to Jesse how ruthless he could be. Shit Jesse has seen that shit 1st hand, more then most people. Gustavo needs Jesse to cook. Gustavo is smart enough to know that if Jesse cares about that kid, and something happens to that kid he's not going to be in any shape to cook.

Walter knows that Jesse knows what the poison is and I think he expected Jesse to be able to tell the doctor's exactly what poison the kid have been given and thus saving the kids life.

Or I could just be out of my fucking mind.

 

[Count23]

I'm not saying it's likely, but the more I think about it, the more I believe Walter poisoned that kid. Think about it. Who has the most to gain by that if not Walter? Jesse thinks he knows Walter and knows what Walt is capable of and not capable of. All Walter would have to do is convince him that he's not capable of hurting a child. Once he does that then Walter overturns all the good will Gustavo has built up with Jesse and gets him on his side.

What would Gustavo have to gain by poisoning the kid? Nothing really!Other then a pissed off Jesse. Which is bad for business. Let's face it business is what matters to Gustavo. Gustavo doesn't need to prove to Jesse how ruthless he could be. Shit Jesse has seen that shit 1st hand, more then most people. Gustavo needs Jesse to cook. Gustavo is smart enough to know that if Jesse cares about that kid, and something happens to that kid he's not going to be in any shape to cook.

Walter knows that Jesse knows what the poison is and I think he expected Jesse to be able to tell the doctor's exactly what poison the kid have been given and thus saving the kids life.

Or I could just be out of my fucking mind.

i dunno there are compelling arguments for both perspectives...

 

[WhenTheGoingGetsTtuff]

i just thought the lil kid

tried to smoke 1 of jessies smokes, & did it to himself

accidently.

Right this is what i was thinking too.

 

[WhenTheGoingGetsTtuff]

i thought that was plausible enough.

jesse thought/knew that only he and walt knew about the ricin.

the part i found incredible was when knucklehead jesse was able to make the leap between the boy's illness and ricin. i know walt explained the symptomology to jesse before, but i don't see jesse as the sort of person capable of that type of recall.

I saw it as jessie not wanting to blame himself. And who was the next target for blame? Walt.

 

[MonkeyBizness]

Brock was poisoned by accident or Gus did it. No way Walt could have done it because he never had the opportunity. I don't think he knew where the chick even lived. He was persona no grata at Jesse's crib and even the two times he was over there, when and how could he set up the cigarette pack.

Now Gus has shown that he has the will and means to do whatever it takes to protect his business. If Gus knows Jesse's allergies, you bet he knows the names, address, social security numbers and everything else of the chick he's fucking and her seed.

Gus' motivation to kill Brock spans from making Jesse think Walt did it in order to have Jesse kill Walt (which is what Gus wants); to having Brock's mom eventually blame Jesse for the kid's condition so as to strip Jesse of any and all human connections forcing him to get closer to Gus. Someone mentioned Mike still being in Mexico, which is a great point because without his "Uncle" Mike around and Walt not being a person he can turn to, Jesse is apt to turn to the only other person who has done right by him*–*Gus.

Now Breaking Bad is on Netflix, the next rainy weekend, I'm doing a Breaking Bad binge and rewatching the seasons.

 

[John_Gault]

Who POISONED the little kid(Brock)? Was it Gus or Walter?

You guys have some really good thoughts on it . . .

But I think it's simple, because you have to consider TIME & OPPORTUNITY as the only factor, since motive is the same for both Gus & Walter.


I see it like this:

The kid LOOKS UP to Jesse . . . in a surrogate father sort of way. Little kids of that age AND situation (absentee parent) are impressionable.

Kid sees Jesse as a smoker. Decided to emulate Jesse by grabbing a cigarette from the pack while Jesse was spending "family time" with Brock and his mother, the night Walt dropped by. Brock chooses the cig in the pack that stands out the most, and somehow ingests the ricin.


Consider, that the mother isn't working (I don't recall actually), and is being supported by Jesse. So either her or her mother are always watching over Brock.

So where's the time and opportunity for Walt OR Gus to, not only poison Brock but, do so while amidst all this other clandestine activity? I.E. Gus, driving Hank around, and Gustavo running massive drug AND fast food operations?


And Brock is a BRIGHT kid and not easily tricked. Recall Jesse trying to fool Brock with some slight of hand when they met for the 1st time over dinner.

So, in my opinion, the kid being poisoned is the ONLY random/unplanned act of potential fatality. Everything else, is ALL CHESS by ALL parties.



JG

 

[cranrab]

brock poisoning himself?

how? the ricin was in a glass vial inside the cigarette, no?

smoking the cigarette with the vial inside would not have exposed him to the ricin.

 

[ZuluSam]

brock poisoning himself?

how? the ricin was in a glass vial inside the cigarette, no?

smoking the cigarette with the vial inside would not have exposed him to the ricin.

no...Jesse poured the powder out of the vile and used a piece of paper to pour it into the cig and covered it with more tobacco.

 

[Traveler]

I think it is possible that Walt did it. Only he didn't poison the kid with ricin, he just gave him something to make him sick and got the cigarette ( the bodyguard took it when he frisked him) making Jesse think that Gus took it. Walt got Saul to help him get Jesse to want Gus dead.

 

[John_Gault]

brock poisoning himself?

how? the ricin was in a glass vial inside the cigarette, no?

smoking the cigarette with the vial inside would not have exposed him to the ricin.

I never said he smoked it . . . I said he tried to emulate Jesse. Also, the vial had to be easy to open, so when the opportunity presented itself to poison Gustavo, Jesse could do so swiftly and unnoticed.


Consider that whomever did it, would have to:

1. Get it from Jesse without his knowledge.

2. Create an opportunity to give it to Brock without his mother or grandmother noticing. Which, would require the culprit to get THAT close to Brock.

3. And, convince Brock to ingest it.

4. We aren't sure it ACTUALLY is ricin. We're ALL speculating . . . just like the characters.




IF, there's a 2nd opportunity it would HAVE to be Gus.

Why and How? He's the owner of Pollos Hermanos, and spends much time in the back office AND at the counter. Gus, knowing EVERYTHING about Jesse's life, makes it plausible to have poisoned Brock IF the mother and kid dropped by Pollos Hermanos for a meal.


Also, consider that Gus used poison to merc the Mexican Cartel drug lords. So we KNOW he had and used poison as a weapon. And it's a PERFECT means to FRAME Walt, using Jesse as a patsy.

JG