No Al-Qaeda attacks on US soil since 9/11- why?

[Spectrum]

Eh, close enough...

... man just admit you got the countries mixed up...no big deal. No need to post the map.. I ALREADY KNEW where the muthafucka is situation geographically. United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia are not the same country.That's like someone in the Middle East saying.. yeah... Fuck Bush..he is a horrible Canadian president.... and then saying.. close enough...

 

[BDR]

It's is very real my friend, governments have used lies and propoganda before just to instil their will and desire to get what they want.


9/11 was nothing more than a beautifully executed plan that resulted in the deaths of hundreds of innocent people. Do you honeslty believe that a group of terrorist with limited flight skills could manuever a Boeing 757 at the speeds of Moc 10 and crash them into the twin towers? Even pilots who have 30 years of experiance can't even do that.And the mere fact that Boeing 757 can be controlled by REMOTE CONTROL doesn't raise any eyebrows?
THe fact that ONLY ONE person on both the planes that crashed into the towers had an Arabian sounding name.......


There is NO PROOF what so ever that a plane crashed into the pentagon. PLEASE find me a picture of a plane lodged into the Pentagon..........you won't find it. Because if anything it looks like a damn bomb or missile hit the Pentagon not a plane.


Keep digging and you will see all the holes in the 9/11 crap we were spoon fed

Terrorist got for maximum casualty not just some flake ass 3000 people at 9 in the morning when the WTC on a daily basis had some 40,000 people in the buildings at any given time during lunch hour


The america public are some fuckin sheepb

 

[smokedacane]

Terrorist got for maximum casualty not just some flake ass 3000 people at 9 in the morning when the WTC on a daily basis had some 40,000 people in the buildings at any given time during lunch hour


The america public are some fuckin sheepb

I don't know what you're trying to say. I don't know whether to agree with you're or disagree with you.

 

[Spectrum]

It's is very real my friend, governments have used lies and propoganda before just to instil their will and desire to get what they want.


9/11 was nothing more than a beautifully executed plan that resulted in the deaths of hundreds of innocent people. Do you honeslty believe that a group of terrorist with limited flight skills could manuever a Boeing 757 at the speeds of Moc 10 and crash them into the twin towers? Even pilots who have 30 years of experiance can't even do that.And the mere fact that Boeing 757 can be controlled by REMOTE CONTROL doesn't raise any eyebrows?
THe fact that ONLY ONE person on both the planes that crashed into the towers had an Arabian sounding name.......


There is NO PROOF what so ever that a plane crashed into the pentagon. PLEASE find me a picture of a plane lodged into the Pentagon..........you won't find it. Because if anything it looks like a damn bomb or missile hit the Pentagon not a plane.


Keep digging and you will see all the holes in the 9/11 crap we were spoon fed

There is a distinction between ALLOWING something to happen and actually doing it yourself.

This is where you and I completely disagree and the contrarian evidence DOES NOT support U.S. involvement more than it involves U.S. government complacency and head-turning to events that led up to 9-11 and during the actual event. Furthermore, one can make the clear connection as to what the neo-conversatives had to gain by this happening. However, the idea that Muslim Brotherhood did not have the means nor desire to do this..considering previous attacks on that very building by them and also their history of using Planes as weapons is EXTREMELY naive. The supposition that the mass media explanation does not make sense is correct..however the conclusion as to what actually could have occurred and what is the most likely scenario is not the most well thought out when you look at ALL the angles, evidence, parties involved, and end goals of all the organizations involved.

Now, if you said Mossad, played a huge roll... then we have another argument. Because just like the CIA cooks up all types of scenarios for the benefit of the U.S. and whatever that particular goal may be... Mossad does the same shit for Israel..and the trail leads there... and however much Mossad, the CIA, or any intelligence agencies may coordinate.. they may units within them that may have countergoals as well that may completely contradict those of other units.

 

[smokedacane]

There is a distinction between ALLOWING something to happen and actually doing it yourself.

This is where you and I completely disagree and the contrarian evidence DOES NOT support U.S. involvement more than it involves U.S. government complacency and head-turning to events that led up to 9-11 and during the actual event. Furthermore, one can make the clear connection as to what the neo-conversatives had to gain by this happening. However, the idea that Muslim Brotherhood did not have the means nor desire to do this..considering previous attacks on that very building by them and also their history of using Planes as weapons if EXTREMELY naive.

However,

Again I am just presenting some facts. The Muslim brotherhood definitely had it out for America BUT I noticed you didn't disagree with any of the descripancies in my rebuttle for example there being absolutely no proof of a plane crashing into the Pentagon.

 

[Spectrum]

Again I am just presenting some facts. The Muslim brotherhood definitely had it out for America BUT I noticed you didn't disagree with any of the descripancies in my rebuttle for example there being absolutely no proof of a plane crashing into the Pentagon.

Go back and read my post.. I added some.

Honestly, as many videos and articles I have read, I have not come to a conclusion as to what happened at the pentagon. I still does not make sense... but there isn't enough available evidence to piece it all together. You can jump to some strong opinions, but nothing conclusive as their are discrepencies on both sides of the fence on that.

BUT THIS ISSUE... At the pentagon.. is one of the issues I found MOST troubling... because my rational won't allow me believe that a pilot with only several months of training..even if we was very skilled.. could have driven a plane of that size with the precision necessary to hit that limited sized target at that position from the ground.

The problem is this.. and I have watched ALL the videos and read most of the available information... and I can only be skeptical, but I cant say with certainty what happened there one way or another... and i dont think that anyone, unless they were any eye witness or privy to classified data really can. There just isnt enough evidence either way to say anything conclusion. I am not prone to making baseless proclamations unless I can completely support it.

By the way... we need to be clear on semantics. YOu didnt present facts...you presented suppositions... and those are very distinct. Yesterday was April 24th is a fact. The U.S. government was involved with the 9/11 plots is a supposition. You have to prove it without a doubt in order for it to become a fact.

 

[Brother Blues]

Brother Smokedacane...answer me this,if it was a missle and not a plane that hit the Pentagon,where is the missing plane?...not to mention the people on board.
Are they being held at some super secret government facilty?...that only people on the net have this all figured out.

 

[smokedacane]

Go back and read my post.. I added some.

Honestly, as many videos and articles I have read, I have not come to a conclusion as to what happened at the pentagon. I still does not make sense... but there isn't enough available evidence to piece it all together. You can jump to some strong opinions, but nothing conclusive as their are discrepencies on both sides of the fence on that.

BUT THIS ISSUE... At the pentagon.. is one of the issues I found MOST troubling... because my rational won't allow me believe that a pilot with only several months of training..even if we was very skilled.. could have driven a plane of that size with the precision necessary to hit that limited sized target at that position from the ground.

Yeah I will get back to your edit, but yeah you said it perfectly. Everything we know about physics would undermine their story of a plane crashing into the Pentagon at those speeds while traveling so low to the ground. Somebody has to think "well wouldn't the plane have gone into a tail spin???"


Like I said before, even the most decorated pilot couldn't have pulled that off and the mere fact NO photos show a plane crashed inside the Pentagon is more disturbing. And even if a Boeing 757 did crash into the Pentagon you better believe it would of caused more damage than this

So two planes topple the Twin Towers while another leaves a scratch?????.......I won't even go into the fact that the fuel burning inside the towers wasn't even hot enough to cause the columns inside the Towers to give out........looked more like a demolition team was taking down a building to me


This whole thing is COMPLETE UTTER BULLSHIT

 

[smokedacane]

Brother Smokedacane...answer me this,if it was a missle and not a plane that hit the Pentagon,where is the missing plane?...not to mention the people on board.
Are they being held at some super secret government facilty?...that only people on the net have this all figured out.

No I am not being held in a secreet government facility. To tell you the truth I have no clue where the plane is man. That will be one of the biggest mysteries of our time. And the plane that supposedly crashed in the fields in Pennsylvania is questionable too. For instance take a look at these pics:

Does that look like a plane just crashed into the ground to you??????



Notice how small the damn hole is and where are the skid marks of the plane before it stopped to a hault and more importantly where is the PLANE?????


I higly doubt the plane went nose first into the ground and where is the debris and skid marks like I was saying? Nothing about those pictures look like a plane crashed, just looks like a big ass hole in the ground with people with Chemical suits on.

 

[Spectrum]

Yeah I will get back to your edit, but yeah you said it perfectly. Everything we know about physics would undermine their story of a plane crashing into the Pentagon at those speeds while traveling so low to the ground. Somebody has to think "well wouldn't the plane have gone into a tail spin???"


Like I said before, even the most decorated pilot couldn't have pulled that off and the mere fact NO photos show a plane crashed inside the Pentagon is more disturbing. And even if a Boeing 757 did crash into the Pentagon you better believe it would of caused more damage than this

So two planes topple the Twin Towers while another leaves a scratch?????.......I won't even go into the fact that the fuel burning inside the towers wasn't even hot enough to cause the columns inside the Towers to give out........looked more like a demolition team was taking down a building to me This whole thing is COMPLETE UTTER BULLSHIT

I know all about the heat issue and the plausibility of that being a controlled demolition. Very rarely do building collapse directly on their foundation regardless of the damage unless a controlled demolition occurs at the base. Most firefighters, explosive exports, even effect artists know this.

However, I have never found that as weird as the damn pentagon attack.

I just find it difficult to understand how an amateur pilot could have pulled off such a precision hit given the target That is "missile" type precision....however it "could" have been done with a plane. However, he would have had to be one outstanding amateur pilot to have pulled off such a feat.

What is even more disturbing is that any fucking object could have hit the pentagon in the first place.but that is another story...

 

[hgbdark]

Thanks Jesus.....

i'll ignore all of the silly posts in this thread and respond to you. al-qaeda got exactly what they wanted and more than they could have dreamed of. bush created a battleground in iraq and there is no longer a need to stage attacks in the U.S.on a regualar basis. they did not have the infrastructure or resources to wage a conventional battle but stupid ass bush has now pitted america against every muslim extremist in the world. iraq is getting the shit kicked out of them and it will take generations for them to recover from the death and destruction being heaped upon them. how can people think that we are not being attacked when soldiers are dying everyday and we ae spending bilions in iraq while new orleans still looks like the day after Katrina?does it make a difference if americans die in the trade center or on foreign soil? we got suckered into a fight we cant win!!!!!

 

[smokedacane]

I know all about the heat issue and the plausibility of that being a controlled demolition. Very rarely do building collapse directly on their foundation regardless of the damage unless a controlled demolition occurs at the base. Most firefighters, explosive exports, even effect artists know this.

However, I have never found that as weird as the damn pentagon attack.

I just find it difficult to understand how an amateur pilot could have pulled off such a precision hit given the target That is "missile" type precision....however it "could" have been done with a plane. However, he would have had to be one outstanding amateur pilot to have pulled off such a feat.

What is even more disturbing is that any fucking object could have hit the pentagon in the first place.but that is another story...

Everything you have said is truth. It's is funny how all these experts in exposives, architects, and firefighters are all ignored by the media and this administration.

Nobody can convince me that a plane hit the Pentagon, especially not an amateur pilot.

 

[supreme_math]

... man just admit you got the countries mixed up...no big deal. No need to post the map.. I ALREADY KNEW where the muthafucka is situation geographically. United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia are not the same country.That's like someone in the Middle East saying.. yeah... Fuck Bush..he is a horrible Canadian president.... and then saying.. close enough...

But why in the middle east period? Why right outside Saudi Arabia? Why not the West Indies, Asia, Africa, India...Why so close to Saudi Arabia? Arent we at war with the middle east. Afgahnistan, Iraq, Syria and a "Cold War" with Iran. Aren't we now at odds with Pakistan? Look up the history of the United Arab Emirates and you'll find the close ties to Saudi Arabia...Our admitted ally.

 

[GAMETHEORY]

Six years later and motherfuckers are still brainwashed. Mission accomplished.

Didn't they just attack the White House e-mail system? Who else could have destroyed millions of government records?

 

[Spectrum]

But why in the middle east period? Why right outside Saudi Arabia? Why not the West Indies, Asia, Africa, India...Why so close to Saudi Arabia? Arent we at war with the middle east. Afgahnistan, Iraq, Syria and a "Cold War" with Iran. Aren't we now at odds with Pakistan? Look up the history of the United Arab Emirates and you'll find the close ties to Saudi Arabia...Our admitted ally.

Two reasons.

One to avoid the spill out when a Democrat becomes president and all the no-bid contracts, etc are more thoroughly reviewed. It is a lot easier to be difficult in a papertrail request when your documents are overseas.


The proximity to Saudi Arabia is not the issue.

There are two reasons for Dubai.

1.Proximity to the a majority of their redevelopment projects and distribution chains. The fact of the matter is that halliburton draws a large portion of their revenue from the Middle East.

2. Dubai is THE business center of the Middle East and the near eastern region in general. There are more multibillion development projects going on in that city than anywhere in the world. The UAE is a beacon of growth in the world.

Couple that with the fact that UAE has no income tax and no federal-level corporate tax it is no brainer.

Decreasing oversight, proximity to their revenue base, and tax incentives of the UAE are the reasons. Shit has nothing to do with the proximity to Saudi Arabia.

Don't misstate this. We are NOT at war with the ENTIRE Middle East.

I dont need to look up the region or the relationship of the countries. Not only have I been to the region... I have studied Arabic, and studies that areas since 96 before most people gave a damn. I am almost positive there are very few people posting on this board that even know an inkling as much about the region and it's history than me. The only other person I have scene on this board that really knows it is Thothprod.

 

[BigUnc]

Good thread. All I have to say is keep digging there is alot more info out there. The data about what happened on 9/11 is very important but there is a wealth of data available about the actions of a select few individuals days, weeks and months before 9/11 that should make you raise an eyebrow. Questions such as who was in charge of security at the World Trade Center and their relationship to the current President??.... hmmmm. What about the curious activity inside the buildings days before the attacks where the security system including video monitors were turned off.The pictorial evidence suggesting a Thermite/Lead explosive was used on the main support columns. There are many other questions none of which presents a smoking gun but should make a free thinking person have "concerns" about the story being presented as to the chain of events about 9/11.

 

[smokedacane]

Good thread. All I have to say is keep digging there is alot more info out there. The data about what happened on 9/11 is very important but there is a wealth of data available about the actions of a select few individuals days, weeks and months before 9/11 that should make you raise an eyebrow. Questions such as who was in charge of security at the World Trade Center and their relationship to the current President??.... hmmmm. What about the curious activity inside the buildings days before the attacks where the security system including video monitors were turned off.The pictorial evidence suggesting a Thermite/Lead explosive was used on the main support columns. There are many other questions none of which presents a smoking gun but should make a free thinking person have "concerns" about the story being presented as to the chain of events about 9/11.

Someone else who is enlightened to the facts


If the Jordan and Kobe debat can be six pages long, so SHOULD this thread

 

[Spectrum]

Good thread. All I have to say is keep digging there is alot more info out there. The data about what happened on 9/11 is very important but there is a wealth of data available about the actions of a select few individuals days, weeks and months before 9/11 that should make you raise an eyebrow.

It all signifies knowledge as to the strong possibilities of an attack. I thought what was very significant fact that there were a huge stream of Instant Messages between Israelies in Israel and Israelies in New York to stay clear of New York on 9/11. This is not speculation. It is often obligatory for service providers to back up this data, and the IM data provider confirmed the spike in IMs with prewarning about 9/11. There were also some Israeli run companies that had been in operation for several years in the World Trade Center that very quickly folded U.S. based operations and moved all foreign born employees back to Israel for seemingly no reason at all.

I would go on and on.

There is a really weird trail of data regarding this event.

 

[gemstone30]

Americans are stupid as fuck. September 11th 2001 was a message, not the start of a war. WE accepted the bullshit propaganda and bought into that. The message was simple: YOU TOO CAN BE TOUCHED.
This was a message sent by Arabs. Why the fuck don't people undertsand that almost all of the September 11th attackers were Saudi? We are stupid as fuck as a country.

Must be referring to yourself then as stupid, you sound like the rest of those 85%. here a fact, 9 of the so called saudi hijackers are alive and living. google
"911 hijackers live" theres hundred of articles.

 

[smokedacane]

Must be referring to yourself then as stupid, you sound like the rest of those 85%. here a fact, 9 of the so called saudi hijackers are alive and living. google
"911 hijackers live" theres hundred of articles.

I tried to tell this fool that only ONE person out of all the passengers of the two planes that hit the towers had an Arabic sounding name.

 

[GAMETHEORY]

several factors, some already mentioned, spring to mind;

1. Attacks of this nature are rare in the US.

2. Security has been upgraded.

3. AQ isnt an organised force in the sense of terrorist forces like the IRA, ETA or Hamas, so its hard for it to carry out such operations.

4. Its alot easier (logisitics, resources, security) to organise arracks in the Middle East and that region is were the various things feeding terrorism (Islamist style anyway) are located.

5. The Jihadi cause celebre is Iraq for the time being*.



Though this has merely replaced US corpses with Iraqi ones. Anyone who thinks that is good should be made to live in Sadr City with a US flag nailed to his forehead. Furthermore its alo fair to argue that they can attack US service personnel in all sorts of countries without wasting the airfare. Just because they're 'evil' it is a bit infantile to assume they can't do basic mathematics.

 

[bigirl]

For those who are interested, here is a very comprehensive list with links of all of the strange nonsequiters surrounding 9/11: http://www.prisonplanet.com/911.html

 

[elchoccolatte]

Cause Al Queadas Leader George Bush Didnt Give The Ok.

Co/Shiz, And if u think their not going to try the Capitol again, U stupid ass as all hell, They got the Trade Ctr's the 2nd go round...They will get the Capitol...

 

[BigUnc]

Regarding the U.S. covert role in the Soviet Afghan war the U.S. funneled the vast majority of assistance to the Mujahideen through the Pakistani Intelligence Service aka ISI so as to give the U.S. a modicum of plausible deniability. It wasn't until the introduction of Stinger Man Portable SAMs did the U.S. involvement became undeniable overt. Osama Bin Laden was mainly a fund raiser and organizer with some but limited battlefield experience. after the war he developed a long list of greviences against the House of Saud and the U.S. and eventually decided to use his experience to organize veterans of Afghanistan to overthrow the House of Saud and kick the U.S. out. It wouldn't be the first time a former asset turned against the U.S. I'm not in the Al Queda is a bought and paid for entity of the CIA. Not yet anyway I need more solid data points.

Why their hasn't been anymore attacks is an open question but probably revolves around the damage done to its leadership,planning,logistical and operational components. The lastest is that Al Queda has rebuilt itself into something new and improved but exactly what isn't public knowledge even if its known at all.

 

[Spectrum]

Regarding the U.S. covert role in the Soviet Afghan war the U.S. funneled the vast majority of assistance to the Mujahideen through the Pakistani Intelligence Service aka ISI so as to give the U.S. a modicum of plausible deniability. It wasn't until the introduction of Stinger Man Portable SAMs did the U.S. involvement became undeniable overt. Osama Bin Laden was mainly a fund raiser and organizer with some but limited battlefield experience. after the war he developed a long list of greviences against the House of Saud and the U.S. and eventually decided to use his experience to organize veterans of Afghanistan to overthrow the House of Saud and kick the U.S. out. It wouldn't be the first time a former asset turned against the U.S. I'm not in the Al Queda is a bought and paid for entity of the CIA. Not yet anyway I need more solid data points.

Why their hasn't been anymore attacks is an open question but probably revolves around the damage done to its leadership,planning,logistical and operational components. The lastest is that Al Queda has rebuilt itself into something new and improved but exactly what isn't public knowledge even if its known at all.

Osama Bin Laden was never an U.S. asset. Ever. Bin Laden had not even come on the radar until WELL into the Afghan War because he was throwing money around and eventually that gets noticed. But for the most part, he was inconsequential. You are correct with some of the assertions. However, ISI, was but one route we used. It is a very limited view to think that we only cooperated with ISI. Remember at this time, the CIA could also initiate programs without any authorization and oversight. There were factions inside of the CIA that had different end goals for the Afghan war and our efforts in Afghanistan were not unilateral. We also dropped cash directly to Massoud and many of the other Afghan commanders directly. Casey was director for 6 years and he was the one who really handed all the power to ISI...because he had a special relationship with Yousaf, the ISI Afghan operations chief. This was the main problem later on.. because ISI was putting all the funding behind Hehkmatray..who was wildly anti-US...but whom many thought was best suited to getting Najibullah out of Afghanistan after the Soviet defeat. Even after the Soviet Union officially left Afghanistan, they still continued to support commanders like Najibullah with funds and weapons that was in the 100s of millions over the years. And while you had Oakley who tolerated Bearden's continued collaboration with ISI and its anti american clients, like Hekmatryar and Sayyak, you had other top CIA officials like Ed McWilliam's who completely opposed it and pushed other initiatives. The reality is that although we funneled money and weapons through ISI, we also funneled money and weapons directly to other Afghan commanders who were fighting the communist allies in Afghanistan. It was NOT only a CIA-ISI connection.

 

[Amigo1234]

It's because of JACK

On the real its cuz of this man

 

[divine]

Remember at this time, the CIA could also initiate programs without any authorization and oversight.

if true?

Osama Bin Laden was never an U.S. asset.

then how do you know he was never an assett?

 

[Mo Pizorn]

Saudi?!? As in Saudi Arabia?!? You mean that country thats now headquarters to Halliburton, our vice presidents old company? Naw bro, you must be mistaken! That would imply a connection of sorts between our government and 911. Nope, not possible...

it would, wouldn't it.

We all know who the real terrorists are. They're right there in D.C. Its just that some are confused as to the origin of the hired terrorists that crashed the planes.
Lots of countries hate us. Its nothing for our government to train a few mofos to let loose on our ass when they want to push an agenda.

 

[BigUnc]

Osama Bin Laden was never an U.S. asset. Ever. Bin Laden had not even come on the radar until WELL into the Afghan War because he was throwing money around and eventually that gets noticed. But for the most part, he was inconsequential. You are correct with some of the assertions. However, ISI, was but one route we used. It is a very limited view to think that we only cooperated with ISI. Remember at this time, the CIA could also initiate programs without any authorization and oversight. There were factions inside of the CIA that had different end goals for the Afghan war and our efforts in Afghanistan were not unilateral. We also dropped cash directly to Massoud and many of the other Afghan commanders directly. Casey was director for 6 years and he was the one who really handed all the power to ISI...because he had a special relationship with Yousaf, the ISI Afghan operations chief. This was the main problem later on.. because ISI was putting all the funding behind Hehkmatray..who was wildly anti-US...but whom many thought was best suited to getting Najibullah out of Afghanistan after the Soviet defeat. Even after the Soviet Union officially left Afghanistan, they still continued to support commanders like Najibullah with funds and weapons that was in the 100s of millions over the years. And while you had Oakley who tolerated Bearden's continued collaboration with ISI and its anti american clients, like Hekmatryar and Sayyak, you had other top CIA officials like Ed McWilliam's who completely opposed it and pushed other initiatives. The reality is that although we funneled money and weapons through ISI, we also funneled money and weapons directly to other Afghan commanders who were fighting the communist allies in Afghanistan. It was NOT only a CIA-ISI connection.

Your correct in that it wasn't only a CIA-ISI operation. Everybody was involved from all the western intelligence groups, the Saudis, Jordanians, Turks, Egyptians and a host of others all had a role including making side deals and all of the nasty things that go on in the intel biz using the enemy of my enemy is my friend rallying cry. The question is what was the nexus between the CIA and Osama Bin Laden and his now second in command Zawahiri(sp).If i'm correct Bin Laden and Zawahiri met in Afghanistan and thus began their collaboration. Which brings up the issue of whether the reports that the Muslim Brotherhood was a creation of Mossad, infiltrated by them or neither I have read that the CIA had a direct connection to Bin Laden but his main relationship was with ISI and directly with Saudi money men that financed the Afghan Arabs. After the Soviets left Afghanistan the U.S., by its own admission, and everyone else abandoned the cause which gave ISI free reign and hence the creation of the Taliban which as it's now known eventually took over and gave Bin Laden santuary and a base of operations. The only constants I'm seeing is Bin Laden, the ISI, Saudi financial backers, the Muslim Brotherhood and the Afghan Arabs which later became the foot soldiers, trainers and planners for Al Queda. what I'm not seeing yet is a continuing deep involvement of the CIA after the Soviets left. I'm not questioning tha there maybe sects inside U.S. intelligence that may have covertly had a hand in what happened after the soviets left, if so I have the following questions.

who are they?

who is giving them orders?

where is the money coming from to finance them?

Only thing I've heard is pure speculation because there is alot of unanswered questions concerning exactly who is pulling whoms chain?

 

[GAMETHEORY]

Osama Bin Laden was never an U.S. asset. Ever. Bin Laden had not even come on the radar until WELL into the Afghan War because he was throwing money around and eventually that gets noticed. But for the most part, he was inconsequential. You are correct with some of the assertions. However, ISI, was but one route we used. It is a very limited view to think that we only cooperated with ISI. Remember at this time, the CIA could also initiate programs without any authorization and oversight. There were factions inside of the CIA that had different end goals for the Afghan war and our efforts in Afghanistan were not unilateral. We also dropped cash directly to Massoud and many of the other Afghan commanders directly. Casey was director for 6 years and he was the one who really handed all the power to ISI...because he had a special relationship with Yousaf, the ISI Afghan operations chief. This was the main problem later on.. because ISI was putting all the funding behind Hehkmatray..who was wildly anti-US...but whom many thought was best suited to getting Najibullah out of Afghanistan after the Soviet defeat. Even after the Soviet Union officially left Afghanistan, they still continued to support commanders like Najibullah with funds and weapons that was in the 100s of millions over the years. And while you had Oakley who tolerated Bearden's continued collaboration with ISI and its anti american clients, like Hekmatryar and Sayyak, you had other top CIA officials like Ed McWilliam's who completely opposed it and pushed other initiatives. The reality is that although we funneled money and weapons through ISI, we also funneled money and weapons directly to other Afghan commanders who were fighting the communist allies in Afghanistan. It was NOT only a CIA-ISI connection.

Good analysis but he was on their radar even since he was at Islamic University of Madina and of course one of his tutor was Sayyid Quttub's brother if i am not mistaken under the name of Azan Tamim.

They knew about him when he was with Mujjaheed in AFG and of course then knew more about him when he claimed responsibility of the Bombing of US Embassies in Dar Es Salaam and Nairobi in 1998

This might sound stupid but the CIA knew more about him than whats on public domain

 

[Spectrum]

if true?



then how do you know he was never an assett?

For many reasons.

One.. Bid Laden was not any ANYONE's radar until after the Afghan was pretty much over.

I don't know if you know anything about the CIA and counterintelligence, but we had almost NO presence in the middle east UNTIL the Afghan war and soon after that war, we pulled everyone out.

This was a complaint screamed from the mountaintop from over senior level official that had ANY interesting in the middle east. There was no interest nor funding for the Near east until the Afghan War. Our intelligence....with real agents, offices, and assetts in the near east was pretty much NON-EXISTENT.

Bid Laden didnt' come on ANYONE's radar from the U.S. until Shroud flew into Afghanistan and met with Massoud. Massoud then described the Saudi's puritanical, intolerant outlook on Islam as abhorrent to Afghans. Then he informed him of Bid Laden..who up until this point pretty much as a non-name outside of the closed circles of the Middle Eastern community. He told him of Bin Laden's group was just one dangerous part of a wider community of armed Islamic radicalism then gathering in Afghanistan around the Taliban. He then informed Shroud of how this new growing fundamentalism was being supported by Pakistani and Arab intelligence agencies. Bid Laden was actually one of the minor heads during that time. But became widely known because he was the most ambitous and media-conscious of these outside sheiks that funneled into Afghanistan.

If you know anything about Bin Laden's history you would know that any connection to the U.S. is laughible at best. We didn't even really know who Bid Laden and that he was a growing constituent in this Muslim Brotherhood until 1991 and this meeting between Massoud and Shroud from the CIA. Furthermore, Bid Laden would have burned in hell twice before even remotely cooperating with any U.S. associated entity. His hatred for the U.S. began long before the U.S. presence in Saudi Arabia.. but the Saud Royal Family's refusal to allow him to protect the Kingdom as opposed to the "infidel" U.S. army was the issue that pushed things over the top. We officially came an enemy in a war against Islam in his eyes.

Logic, History, Ideology, and the available data does not support the theory of Bid Laden ever being an U.S. asset.

 

[Spectrum]

Good analysis but he was on their radar even since he was at Islamic University of Madina and of course one of his tutor was Sayyid Quttub's brother if i am not mistaken under the name of Azan Tamim.

They knew about him when he was with Mujjaheed in AFG and of course then knew more about him when he claimed responsibility of the Bombing of US Embassies in Dar Es Salaam and Nairobi in 1998

This might sound stupid but the CIA knew more about him than whats on public domain

I just explained this another post. A quick search online is not going to give you another information to adequately understand the connections between the Muslim Brotherhood. But as I just said in another post... Bid Laden did not officially come on the CIA radar until 1991 when Massoud and Schroen from the CIA met. You won't find anything to illustrate otherwise. Furthermore, there was not reason too... up into that point.. Islamic fundamentalism was a completely foreign concept to the U.S. and we had no reason to put in any resources to it because no one understood the impending threat...up into that point, we were fully focused on the U.S.S.R and the threat of communism.

 

[GreedySmurf]

... man just admit you got the countries mixed up...no big deal. No need to post the map.. I ALREADY KNEW where the muthafucka is situation geographically. United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia are not the same country.That's like someone in the Middle East saying.. yeah... Fuck Bush..he is a horrible Canadian president.... and then saying.. close enough...

You're completely right and I stand corrected.

 

[Mo Pizorn]

You so stupid. America/Bush is the real Al Q. 911 was the jump-off for the new world order. Look what is happening now as a result. Beefed up security everywhere. Increased fuel cost. Travel restrictions etc.

To all of you dumb ass noobs calling me stupid, please cease and desist and check my back posts. You are not saying anything that I don't already know and haven't said myself in the past. I am not doubting the fact that our government had a crucial part in the terrorists' training and the orchestration of the events. I also know where they came from. They were mostly Saudis. It doesn't even matter really, knowing that our government funded and trained them ALL. They could have been french or german or african and the plan would have still been the same because they wanted to push that Patriot Act. Bush and his camp concocted the connections, our media replayed them over and over and we as citizens ate it up. I don't mean us as individuals, but as a nation. If Americans weren't stupid, the Patriot Act wouldn't be in place to this day.

 

[smokedacane]

To all of you dumb ass noobs calling me stupid, please cease and desist and check my back posts. You are not saying anything that I don't already know and haven't said myself in the past. I am not doubting the fact that our government had a crucial part in the terrorists' training. I also know for a fact where they came from. They were mostly Saudis. It doesn't even matter really, knowing that our government funded and trained them ALL. They could have been french or german or african and the plan would have still been the same because they wanted to push that Patriot Act. Bush and his camp concocted the connections, our media replayed them over and over and we as citizens ate it up. I don't mean us as individuals, but as a nation.

Yeah you have redeemed yourself, for a minute there I was about to write you off as a sheep.