NBA Debate: How Can Ben Simmons Be a Top 10 Point Guard When He Can't Shoot?

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https://thebiglead.com/2018/12/27/how-can-ben-simmons-be-a-top-10-point-guard-when-he-cant-shoot/

Ben Simmons is not a bad NBA starting point guard by virtue of the fact that he is a great passer and defender, but as we evaluate where he’s at in his second season would he crack the top 10 at his position? If so, it’s by a thread.







As three-point shooting continues to proliferate in the league, Simmons has literally not attempted a single shot from beyond the arc this season. The Sixers are generally talented enough to win about two-thirds of their games just by virtue of having what Simmons does provide in addition to two stars in Joel Embiid and Jimmy Butler. Nevertheless, my contention is that there are about 10 point guards in the NBA who are better than Simmons in a playoff series, and that Simmons’ shooting liability late in games is going to submarine them in the postseason as they fall short of the Eastern Conference Finals. (If the season ended today, they’d play the Celtics and fail to even make the second round.)

Obviously salary matters and Simmons is all things considered a solid value making $6.4 million on his rookie deal. However, these point guards are better in a vacuum right now:

Definitively Better
Stephen Curry, James Harden, Damian Lillard, Kemba Walker, Kyrie Irving, Russell Westbrook. Perhaps you’re not enamored with Westbrook, but if Westbrook and Simmons switch places do you really think the Thunder are 21-12 and third in the West right now? Or that the Sixers’ win total decreases? The other argument here could be that Harden is not a point guard, as he shares a backcourt with Chris Paul. But, given how much the ball is in his hands — and that this is my exercise — I’m counting him.

You could argue but I’d think you’re wrong
Mike Conley and De’Aaron Fox. Now we’re up to 8. Conley is averaging 20 points per game on a Grizzlies when Memphis has about seven less possessions per game than Philadelphia (the Grizzlies have the least possessions per game while the Sixers have the fourth-most).

If last year’s Draft were redone today, do you think the Sixers would take Simmons over Fox? I honestly don’t, especially given that the rumblings that Simmons is going to head to Tinseltown the first chance he gets are already simmering. Fox may not be a high volume 3-point shooter, but he’s knocking down over 40% of them on 3.1 attempts per game this season.

You’ll think I’m wrong but I can live with that
So now we’ve reached a point where I believe fairly strongly that Simmons is not a top 25% starter at his position in the NBA. Further, there are even a couple other point guards like Eric Bledsoe and D’Angelo Russell who you’d probably say I’m crazy to prefer over Simmons in a hotly contested playoff series, but I’d nonetheless choose — remember how Simmons vanished into a bizarre state of passivity in Game 2 against the Celtics last year as the Sixers blew a 22-point lead?

It bears repeating that Simmons is a phenomenal defender and passer. It’s too early to write him off for life as not-elite in his second season. If, like, Brook Lopez could develop a three-point shot nearly a decade into his NBA career, it’s certainly conceivable that Simmons could grind out an ability to shoot from the perimeter. However, until he does so, he is not going to be an asset in the playoffs given what the sport has become.
 
To me his free throws are more of an issue. :smh: Keeps him from being aggressive and going to the basket I believe. :angry:

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He's not a top ten pg imo. Besides the usual names (Curry, Westbrook, Irving, Lillard, Harden/Paul, Walker) there's younger guards who I would take over Ben (Fox, Murray).

His ability to disappear in games as a point guard is alarming. I've never seen him actually take over a game.
 
I've only seen him play a few times, but it's funny...a pass first, shoot second PG, who gets to the paint...sounds like an ol school guard. I'm surprised that he doesn't seem to WANT to shoot, though.

*in my old man voice*. When I was young, breaking down your defender and penetrating to the paint to dish was expected...different game now. Sheeeid, Magic couldn't shoot, either, when he joined the league. Dude had a set shot.:lol:
 
He'd at least shoot it. And he developed 1 over time

truth

went from Ayson (had no jay) to a fairly consistent long range shooter.

So I think Ben got hope...

but it is a tad disconcerting that he AVOIDS shooting at damn near ALL costs
 
You do realize that Jason Kidd is 9th on the list of 3 point shots made? Maybe Rondo would have been a better example for your argument.
He came into the league not being able to shoot and it took quite some time before developing a solid jumper. But at least he would try though. Ben Simmons is beyond scared to shoot anything beyond 15ft
 
You do realize that Jason Kidd is 9th on the list of 3 point shots made? Maybe Rondo would have been a better example for your argument.


Look it Jason Kidd shooting % his first 4-5 years in the NBA and tell me how it looks...he improved later as Ben can

Also on that 3 pointers made list Kidd has one of the lowest % played alot of year and took alot of 3
 
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Yet Ben takes more shots and has a way higher shooting % than Kidd had in the same timeframe :dunno:

Dude, seriously. He does not shoot anything beyond a mid range jumper and he barely shoots them.

The longest shot he's ever made in the NBA was just last week when he made a 20 footer when the clock was about to run out.

If all you shoot are runners, layups and dunks your percentage should be high. He's fuckin DeAndre Jordan. And nobody is praising his big ass for having a high percentage...because it should be.
 
And to stop this fuckin silly ass argument

When they were calling him Ason

Jason Kidd he was shooting between three three and four pointers a game. And they didn't shoot nearly as many threes back then as they do now.

When he was Ason he was shooting between 32 and 34% a game. So he was shooting threes. He was making one in three.

Ben Simmons doesn't even look at the fuckin basket when he has it beyond 18 feet. He avoids that shit like it's a solar eclipse.

He has attempted I believe one fuckin three since he's been in the league....one three.

Stop comparing him to Jason Kidd. He's Clint Capella/DeAndre Jordan. Because none of those muthafuckas are going to shoot outside the paint.
 
Dude, seriously. He does not shoot anything beyond a mid range jumper and he barely shoots them.

The longest shot he's ever made in the NBA was just last week when he made a 20 footer when the clock was about to run out.

If all you shoot are runners, layups and dunks your percentage should be high. He's fuckin DeAndre Jordan. And nobody is praising his big ass for having a high percentage...because it should be.

Ben Simmons was the Second coming of LeBron last year according to every sports channel until he hit that slump vs the Celtics now everybody is jumping ship....

A point guards main objective isn't to shoot :dunno:

And the Kidd comparison is fine Kidd's shooting was his biggest knock coming into the league......google "Kidd can't shoot" and articles will pop up it isnt just my opinion :dunno:
 
Ben Simmons was the Second coming of LeBron last year according to every sports channel until he hit that slump vs the Celtics now everybody is jumping ship....

A point guards main objective isn't to shoot :dunno:

And the Kidd comparison is fine Kidd's shooting was his biggest knock coming into the league......google "Kidd can't shoot" and articles will pop up it isnt just my opinion :dunno:
Stop calling that cock sucker a piccolo player. So now he's a point guard? I thought he was a forward who plays out of position. You know, like a LeBron James. He needs to get a jump shot like yesterday or either give up the job of handling the rock and go post up the block like forwards traditionally did. He's an albatross around his teams neck come playoff time when teams get to game plan for four game series against a powerforward that plays out of position who can't shoot.
 
I've only seen him play a few times, but it's funny...a pass first, shoot second PG, who gets to the paint...sounds like an ol school guard. I'm surprised that he doesn't seem to WANT to shoot, though.

*in my old man voice*. When I was young, breaking down your defender and penetrating to the paint to dish was expected...different game now. Sheeeid, Magic couldn't shoot, either, when he joined the league. Dude had a set shot.:lol:
I was about to say old school teachings was about ability to get to the hole, ability to penetrate to dish, score or draw the foul, point was about getting teammates into the game, clock management, ball control/momentum... Having the ability to score 15 ft and under... If you had range and a consistent shot it was a plus but you still could be a very dangerous threat without it
 
You do realize that Jason Kidd is 9th on the list of 3 point shots made? Maybe Rondo would have been a better example for your argument.
No, he has the right example. Kidd couldn't shoot for shit his first few years in the league. Cat shot in the 60percentage for freethrows and low 40s to under 40s from the field. He worked hard to become competent at shooting.

Rondo always sucked at shooting.

Hopefully, Ben can get past it like Kidd did.
 
I was about to say old school teachings was about ability to get to the hole, ability to penetrate to dish, score or draw the foul, point was about getting teammates into the game, clock management, ball control/momentum... Having the ability to score 15 ft and under... If you had range and a consistent shot it was a plus but you still could be a very dangerous threat without it

That's the job description for a quintessential PG

I NEVER liked shoot-first mentality PGs. They usually had good numbers, may have been great players, but their teams often suffered....and I HATED playing alongside them.
 
When them playoffs starts, shit is going to be sad to watch :smh:

Especially if Philly manages to go deep.

Unfortunately, Philly’s playoff runs will depend on his ability to shoot and the fact that he doesnt even want to as a star caliber player is tough.

Then you have to deal with the confidence factor as Ben has 0% confidence in his ability to shoot. That alone is a hurdle that should have been addressed at some point in his career. Yeah, Kidd couldn’t shoot, but at least he attempted.
 
Stop calling that cock sucker a piccolo player. So now he's a point guard? I thought he was a forward who plays out of position. You know, like a LeBron James. He needs to get a jump shot like yesterday or either give up the job of handling the rock and go post up the block like forwards traditionally did. He's an albatross around his teams neck come playoff time when teams get to game plan for four game series against a powerforward that plays out of position who can't shoot.

He runs point for his team.

Y'all Kats are being a little to tough...he won rookie of the year he's just hitting a sophomore wall...

He'll be okay and put up numbers like some of you calling him trash did when y'all were in the league..
 
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He runs point for his team.

Y'all Kats are being a little to tough...he won rookie of the year he's just having a sophomore wall...

He'll be okay and put up numbers like some of you calling him trash did when y'all were in the league..
Come on bruh. Did I lie about his situation?
 
For what it's worth, this is just what the NBA has become...players now develop IN the league instead of college, if they develop at all. And hopefully, if they wanna truly make a mark, they continue to add to their skill set.

Kareem added a jump shot to his repertoire, late in his career, MJ added the fade away, Kidd became a decent shooter...but you gotta want to put in the time after the season.

Dwight Howard coulda been an all time great, but he never added anything to his game. Now that imjuries have robbed him of some of his athleticism, what's he gon do?
 
For what it's worth, this is just what the NBA has become...players now develop IN the league instead of college, if they develop at all. And hopefully, if they wanna truly make a mark, they continue to add to their skill set.

Kareem added a jump shot to his repertoire, late in his career, MJ added the fade away, Kidd became a decent shooter...but you gotta want to put in the time after the season.

Dwight Howard coulda been an all time great, but he never added anything to his game. Now that imjuries have robbed him of some of his athleticism, what's he gon do?

Hard to argue...

You aint wrong.
 
For what it's worth, this is just what the NBA has become...players now develop IN the league instead of college, if they develop at all. And hopefully, if they wanna truly make a mark, they continue to add to their skill set.

Kareem added a jump shot to his repertoire, late in his career, MJ added the fade away, Kidd became a decent shooter...but you gotta want to put in the time after the season.

Dwight Howard coulda been an all time great, but he never added anything to his game. Now that imjuries have robbed him of some of his athleticism, what's he gon do?

I had a joke for that question but I'm gonna hold off
 
When your most dominant player is your center your PG needs to be able to hit a jumper in case the center is double teamed. He limits his effectiveness by not having a jumpshot.
 
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