My All-Time All Lakers team

[cranrab]

(west is the original kobe as far as "gunning" many old head have told me his refusal to defer to elgin & wilt. 9 finals appearances, 1 title...plus he played no defense, you can have him)

very odd position for "many old head" to have told you, seeing as how elgin baylor consistently had more FGAs per game than jerry west. one of the things that made jerry west a dangerous player was his scoring efficiency: high scoring average with reasonable amount of FGAs.

by the FACT that jerry west usually averaged FEWER FGAs than elgin baylor, i would say it is MORE reasonable to say that jerry west had little or NO problem "deferring" to elgin baylor and wilt chamberlain. why would he? jerry west could still get his, all the while attempting FEWER FGAs.

BTW, elgin baylor is closer to the "original tobe" (but elgin baylor is still much better), because the fakers didn't perform their best until after elgin baylor retired: historic winning streak and NBA championship.

 

[I'M STILL BAD]

I thought i seen freaky make a post about having a sister named kate this confirms it. It amazes me how people can have so much hate for a man they never met or spoke to nigga sgot issues for real i don't know if a 6'7 guard fuvked your high school sweet heart at the prom or what but ya'll need to deal with that envy ya'll carrying around. I bet ya'll lame ass niggas(who are obviously failures in life to have so much hate) throw snowballs at niggas wearing kobe jersey's

 

[wantyme]

^^^

Horry is not a great player but damn he hits some big shots when they count...I think you were the only person to have him... but I can respect that choice...mofo is deadly on game winning possessions in the playoffs..

yeah, as far as a team and not just a collection of players, you need the horrys and coops. if i had an IR spot id probably add d-fish. he was a better laker imo than byron scott because of his defense and fearlessness. the way he bytched up in '91 against jordan made me lose some respect for him.

 

[PimpstarP]

Hey Vern Mikkelson, was the games first PF. I didn't say he was better, justthat he was a trailblazer. There have been numerous PG's that could bump Van Exel out the lineup, and I like Van Exel, ever since Cincy. Kobe is Vinnie Johnson. The backcourt of West and Magic is more deadly than any lineup with Kobe in it. My opinion. West is Mr. Clutch and the symbol of the NBA, that alone trumps mr. shoot a bunch. Kobe is not the best player in the history of his team, let alone the greats of all time. Some of you Laker fans (not saying you) have no clue of all the great players in the Laker organization, just on the Kobe bandwagon.

Reason why people can make arguments of Jordan being amongst the greats of all time, is because he was the greatest in the history of his team. Like Magic, like Bird, like Dr. J and the Nets. Like George Gervin in San Antonio. To be in the greats of all time conversation, you gotta be better than the greats in your teams. That's why I made this thread, to give perspective to bandwagon Laker fans and Kobe dickriders.

But what do I know, I'm a hater.

First off...what does it matter if I have Jerry West on SF instead of Kobe...He's still in my starting lineup. A position doesn't nessecarily define a players role on the floor...just look at the offense being run by Lamar Odom. Or Allen Iverson being the main scorer as a PG (Even tho he's not really a point gaurd anymore). Both West and Kobe could play 1-3. Your acting like i'm saying Kobe is better than West...or even Elgin...(which I am not saying...I'll save that for another argument)...just saying I think that starting lineup is more deadly. Nobody said Kobe was the greatest of the Lakers. Cause he isn't...but your naming teams like Chicago...and The Nets...which are franchises equivilant of Turds compared to the greatest franchise of all time...the Lakers. First the bulls have only like 6 retired numbers...None have MVPs besides Jordan and Pippen...None have Championships besides Jordan, Pippen and Phil (who got his for his coaching)...No real competition...Same goes for the Nets...And alot of people don't consider Bird to be the greatest Celtic. And least not alot of people who remember Bill Russell...Or Bob Cousy. And you could argue a few others like John Havlicec...or Kevin McHAle. As for the Spurs...Gervin is the best, but is David Robinson not one of the greats in the game...will Tim Duncan not be considered a great...that argument is dumb. Kobe's career isn't even over and your comparing him to hall of fame Lakers...He will undoubtly be one of the greats. Even if he isn't the considered the greatest Laker. You makin this thread to give perspective to Kobe fans instead of having an intelligent topic for basketball fans to discuss just sounds retarded. Thats why your labeled a hater...cuz you got Kobe and his fans on your mind...some of us are Lakers fans...not just fans of Kobe...maybe you need some perspective.

 

[PimpstarP]

Individually in every series and collectively Shaq's numbers trumped Kobe..not to mention he was the dominant force in the middle that anchored the entire offense. Take Kobe off that team and have him put up inconsequential and they don't skip a beat (2000 is a testament to that).

The first finals' stats not only go to show the huge range in output...but goes on to show that the Lakers..even with Kobe being a non-factor like in the 2000 Finals, were a good enough team to win a title solely on the back of Shaq.

That message was a direct response to the myth that Kobe LED those teams. That was the claim made. He was apart of the supporting cast.

Shaqs numbers trumped Kobe's the first year. And Shaq was the leader of the three squads...who in here deny's that...who was arguing that...put a quote up of someone arguing that. Thats why i didn't wanna discuss this cause you cats always do this. You always assume every Laker fan is dickriding Kobe to the third power and saying he's the greatest of all time...not true. But I got a problem with your reasoning...Your summarizing an entire 3 year run with one series...and your talkin about they wouldn't have missed a beat.
First off...that finals went to seven games...Lakers almost didn't win that series with Kobe's scoring so low...not to mention he hit numerous clutch shots to keep us alive...but the stats don't show that.
2nd off...A championship run is more than one round...Kobe's playoff numbers for the first ring was 21.1 ppg... 4.4 apg...4.5 rpg...1.4 spg...Not really expendible...next season...29.9 ppg...6.1 apg...7.3 rpg...Definetly not expendible. Season after that...26.6ppg....4.6....5.8...thats why you cats need to stop actin like Kobe was just a role player...if you watch those close games...around the fourth Quarter the announcers were saying..."No suprise Lakers are gonna try and get Kobe the ball" cuz he had that reputation...something you non Lakers fans don't see lookin at stats from the past. Stats don't tell the whole story...Like game 4 against the Kings...when the Lakers where down 24 and Kobe exploded to bring the Lakers back. You just see the 25 points at the end of the game and think he played average. (for Kobe's standard).

 

[Spectrum]

Shaqs numbers trumped Kobe's the first year. And Shaq was the leader of the three squads...who in here deny's that...who was arguing that...put a quote up of someone arguing that. Thats why i didn't wanna discuss this cause you cats always do this. You always assume every Laker fan is dickriding Kobe to the third power

Check Blunt's post. He was the one who said Kobe LED the Lakers to 3 titles. My post was in direct response to that. Furthemore, I had not called anyone a dickrider in this thread.

Next, I am not just referring to stats I watched the entire playoffs all those years. No one is denying an input from Kobe. However, we need to keep that in perspective. Blunt specifically said KOBE LED THE LAKERS TO THREE TITLES.

That statement is just not true.

First off you are wrong. The 2000 Finals was a 6 game series..not 7.

Kobe was inconsequential in the 2000 finals. Again, the play of Shaq is what determined that series. Despite Kobe's increase in output, he was still apart of the supporting cast. That team lived or died on Shaq's back...aint no way of getting around that fact.

Now Kobe has to prove that he can LEAD a team. He has never done so in his career.at least in terms of leading them to success... unless first round playoff exits are considered successes.

This is how he LED this year..in the forth quarter when it counted...this is what Kobe produced this year. I am going to quote from another post that someone posted on the sports board:

MaxFly, let's go one step further and isolate the sterling 4th quarter play from Kobe in the playoffs, since you're under the delusion that he had a good/great series. Here are Kobe's 4th quarter numbers this series:


Game 1: 1-10 FG, 4pts, 1 ast

Game 2: 0-0 FG, 0 pts, 1 ast

Game 3: 5-10 FG, 15 pts, 0 ast

Game 4: 1-3 FG, 3 pts, 4 ast

Game 5: 3-10 FG, 10 pts, 0 ast


4th quarter averages- 6.4 pts and 1.2 ast on 30.3% shooting


Now, let's go a step further and take away the one great game he had this series (game 3) and see what his 4th quarter play (again, when it matters most -- certainly much more than against bottom-feeders in the regular season) looks like:


4th quarter averages minus game 3: 4.3 pts and 1.5 ast on 21.7% shooting


For the mathematically challenged, that's a 17 pt/6 ast pace for an entire game...on 22% shooting. Yeah, this is what we should expect or be content with from "the best player in the game." I mean, look at those numbers. I won't even go into the numerous (and crucial) TO's.


But you're right, MaxFly -- he didn't have a poor series.

 

[PimpstarP]

Check Blunt's post. He was the one who said Kobe LED the Lakers to 3 titles. My post was in direct response to that. Furthemore, I had not called anyone a dickrider in this thread.

Next, I am not just referring to stats I watched the entire playoffs all those years. No one is denying an input from Kobe. However, we need to keep that in perspective. Blunt specifically said KOBE LED THE LAKERS TO THREE TITLES.

That statement is just not true.

First off you are wrong. The 2000 Finals was a 6 game series..not 7.

Kobe was inconsequential in the 2000 finals. Despite his increase in output, he was still apart of the supporting cast. That team lived or died on Shaq's back...aint no way of getting around that fact.

I have to correct myself...i was thinkin of the series with the Blazers in the WCF. That was the real finals...thats what always gets shown in the highlights...not so much the Pacers series. Kobe actually outplayed Shaq in 2 of those games especially game 7...but yeah Shaq was in his prime while Kobe was still developing so of course Shaq was the best player...But from the gate the Lakers were known as a two man superstar tandam...I'd say Kobe lead the team in certain ways and shaq led the team in certain ways...Shaq was the captain tho. Blunt never said that Kobe did it by himself or even implied it. He responded to the statement of someone calling Kobe "just a teamate". Which is the whole thing alot of Lakers fans have a problem with hearing cuz we damn sure no Kobe's contribution to those series...even if outsiders dont.

 

[cranrab]

Re: My All-Time All fakers team

I have to correct myself...i was thinkin of the series with the Blazers in the WCF. That was the real finals...thats what always gets shown in the highlights...not so much the Pacers series. Kobe actually outplayed Shaq in 2 of those games especially game 7...but yeah Shaq was in his prime while Kobe was still developing so of course Shaq was the best player

damn. do people get whiplash from backpeddling this hard?

But from the gate the Lakers were known as a two man superstar tandam.

that would've been pretty difficult, considering tobe didn't join shaquille o'neal on the starting squad until shaquille o'neals THIRD season with the fakers.

 

[PimpstarP]

Re: My All-Time All fakers team

damn. do people get whiplash from backpeddling this hard?

No backpeddling...He was 100 percent right...I just had the game 7 WCF in mind. Without Kobe's contribution in that, there wouldn't be no finals. Oh and an important note that needs to brought up...Kobe was injured in the 2000 finals against indiana...he injured his ankle in game 2 and didn't play most of it. He didn't play game 3 at all so I don't know where that guy got them stats. Game 4 he came back helped the Lakers get overtime and when shaq fouled out he carried the load...he hit the game winner as well. Something you niggas prolly dont remember when your readin them stats

that would've been pretty difficult, considering tobe didn't join shaquille o'neal on the starting squad until shaquille o'neals THIRD season with the fakers.

He was also an all star by his 2nd season...And he had won the Dunk contest and set the record of 31 points for the rookie/sophmore challenge his rookie season...not to mention he was MVP of the most prestigious Bball camp...Adidas ABCD summer camp...how bout when he averaged 35 ppg in high school to lead Lower Merion to its first state championship in 53 years...how bout averaging 30.8 points, 12.0 rebounds, 6.5 assists, 4.0 steals and 3.8 blocked shots in high school...how bout surpassing Wilt as Southern Pennsylvania's alltime leading scorer with 2,883 points...How bout being named Naismiths player of the year...in high school. Everyone had him as an inevitable all star which is why he's been under the microscope since he was in high school. Which is why Lakers traded Divac in his prime for him. If you don't believe me...i'll put things in perspective since you obviously don't remember

Mr. Excitement - Los Angeles Lakers' star Kobe Bryant
Sporting News, The, Dec 8, 1997 by Bill Plaschke

Tonight he made an assist with an over-the-shoulder pass. Juked the defense and dunked behind his head. Drove the middle and threw in a buzzer-beating layup. Heard the crowd chanting his name. Saw opponents staring at his moves. Felt the sort of magic that sometimes, it seems, only he can feel.

Kobe Bryant is the most exciting player in the NBA, if only because the players on the league's most exciting team constantly are distracted by him.

"He gets into the game, and you just look at him," Eddie Jones says. "Every play, you look at him and you wonder, `What's next?'"

"He amazes me," Nick Van Exel says. "I see him every day, and he still amazes me."

You know exactly what Jordan will do, which makes him the greatest player in history when he does it. With Bryant, you have no earthly idea.

It is these moments of brilliance that have transformed a 19-year-old kid--one year after breaking into the league as the second-youngest player in league history--from an oddity to a star.

Although many say Bryant could start for 20 other teams, the most exciting player in the NBA comes off the bench. Plays point guard or shooting guard or small forward. Sometimes the 6-6 kid plays all three at once.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1208/is_n49_v221/ai_20077218

A star is born; His name is Kobe
By Jim Murray
Editor's note: This column originally appeared in the Los Angeles Times on February 15, 1998.

You hear about Kobe Bryant, the Lakers' 19-year-old basketball whiz, and your first reaction is, the last time anyone this good appeared there was a star in the East. I mean, you want to say, "Come on, what are you trying to hand me? Nobody's this good!"

Technically, he's what they call a "sixth man." He is meant to come off the bench at key moments and spark a turnaround in the team's fortunes. It's a role pioneered by the Celtics' John Havlicek.

He plays to rave notices. Says Hall of Fame broadcaster Chick Hearn, who has been known to restrain his enthusiasm for the modern player on occasion: "Kobe is a 28-year-old in a 19-year-old body. The things he does with no college experience is beyond belief. He has total confidence. He'd walk up to Michael Jordan or a backup guard with the same degree of skill and enthusiasm and expectations of success. He's a star on and off the court. I've seen lots of them come and go but none with the potential of Kobe Bryant. Someday, we'll be able to brag, 'We knew him when!' "

Even rival coach P.J. Carlesimo of Golden State bows, "He's scary. Then you realize he should be a sophomore in college, and it's real scary. He's their sixth man, but he's not a complementary player. He plays a big role on a great team and makes it greater."

Any way you look at it, you might want to get his autograph before he ascends into hoops heaven. He won't be hard to find. He'll be the one walking through doors without opening them. Michael Jordan may be Air Jordan but Kobe is Heir Jordan.

Jim Murray, the long-time sports columnist for the Los Angeles Times, won the Pulitzer Prize for commentary in 1990. He died Aug. 16, 1998. http://espn.go.com/classic/s/2001/0509/1194066.html

Blazers' dry spell allows Lakers to take Game 7
Click here for more on this story

Posted: Monday June 05, 2000 09:32 PM

Bryant, the other half of the superstar tandem that is supposed to lead this franchise back to its historic greatness, had 25 points, 11 rebounds, seven assists and four blocked shots

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/2000/playoffs/news/2000/06/04/blazers_lakers_ap/

That should pretty much put an end to that nonesense...BTW what does this have to do with the thread?

 

[freaky_1]

I thought i seen freaky make a post about having a sister named kate this confirms it. It amazes me how people can have so much hate for a man they never met or spoke to nigga sgot issues for real i don't know if a 6'7 guard fuvked your high school sweet heart at the prom or what but ya'll need to deal with that envy ya'll carrying around. I bet ya'll lame ass niggas(who are obviously failures in life to have so much hate) throw snowballs at niggas wearing kobe jersey's

I have no hate for Shobe, just putting him in perspective in relation to the greats in his organization.

Log off my dick and go back to lurking, bitch

 

[freaky_1]

First off...what does it matter if I have Jerry West on SF instead of Kobe...He's still in my starting lineup. A position doesn't nessecarily define a players role on the floor...just look at the offense being run by Lamar Odom. Or Allen Iverson being the main scorer as a PG (Even tho he's not really a point gaurd anymore). Both West and Kobe could play 1-3. Your acting like i'm saying Kobe is better than West...or even Elgin...(which I am not saying...I'll save that for another argument)...just saying I think that starting lineup is more deadly. Nobody said Kobe was the greatest of the Lakers. Cause he isn't...but your naming teams like Chicago...and The Nets...which are franchises equivilant of Turds compared to the greatest franchise of all time...the Lakers. First the bulls have only like 6 retired numbers...None have MVPs besides Jordan and Pippen...None have Championships besides Jordan, Pippen and Phil (who got his for his coaching)...No real competition...Same goes for the Nets...And alot of people don't consider Bird to be the greatest Celtic. And least not alot of people who remember Bill Russell...Or Bob Cousy. And you could argue a few others like John Havlicec...or Kevin McHAle. As for the Spurs...Gervin is the best, but is David Robinson not one of the greats in the game...will Tim Duncan not be considered a great...that argument is dumb. Kobe's career isn't even over and your comparing him to hall of fame Lakers...He will undoubtly be one of the greats. Even if he isn't the considered the greatest Laker. You makin this thread to give perspective to Kobe fans instead of having an intelligent topic for basketball fans to discuss just sounds retarded. Thats why your labeled a hater...cuz you got Kobe and his fans on your mind...some of us are Lakers fans...not just fans of Kobe...maybe you need some perspective.

Dude please, you haven't been paying attention around here. Do a search, one dude started a Kobe greatest ever thread. So what I said is legit. Lakers, greatest franchise ever

I know the history of the teams I mentioned. Like I thought you're just a bandwagon fan. I put my team together based on the position they played during their career, not where I want them to be because I have to put Shobe in the starting lineup. Any true basketball fan will tell you, unless they are Shobe dickriders, that any all time Lakers team, begins and ends with West and Magic in the backcourt, Baylor at SF, debatable PF, and a toss up between Wilt and Kareem at center.

 

[thellc]

here it is,
starting 5-
C- Karem
PF- James Worthy
SF- Elgin Baylor
SG- Kobe Bryant
PG- Magic JOhnson

 

[freaky_1]

here it is,
starting 5-
C- Karem
PF- James Worthy
SF- Elgin Baylor
SG- Kobe Bryant
PG- Magic JOhnson

First off, learn to spell. Second, you can't bump Jerry West for Kobe, no real Lakers fan would do that. The rest is fine.

 

[jiggylo09]

Kareem Abdul Jabaar C

Bob Mc Adoo PF


James Worthy SF


Kobe Bryant SG Jerry West over Kobe please!!!!!!!!


Magic Johnson PG

 

[PimpstarP]

First off, learn to spell. Second, you can't bump Jerry West for Kobe, no real Lakers fan would do that. The rest is fine.

at this cat spinning into a rage anytime someone puts Kobe over Baylor or West... Thread backfire...he was tryna piss Kobe stans off and ended up reversing on em.