My All-Time All Lakers team

freaky_1 said:
Vern defined a position so that's why he starts on my team, not a personal favorite.

So are you basing the list on OBJECTIVE standards based on research or personal feelings? You keep switching your perspective.

Which is it?
 
Tripster said:
How was his comment "prejudiced"???

LOL. You really must be trippin'. He obviously has some idiotic hang-up about Bryant which makes his overall judgement questionable. If he's "reluctant" to put Bryant on the list (but not so with Goodrich, or anyone else) then he's clearly "prejudiced" against him. You have to wonder from what other deep well of bias his other choices come from.

This list was just an excuse for him to diss a guy he hates for some dumb reason.
 
man Basically Fuck The Damn Fucking Lakers Basketball Team. I Hate The Damn La...no...la-lackers Basketball Team. Fucking Team Think They Can Have Their Entire Schedule Be The Fucking Game Of The Week Every Fucking Week On National Television. Not Only That I'm Fucking Sick And Tired Of Seeing Jack Nicholson, His Prostitutes, And His Vain Actor Friends Comming To The Game Like Some Fucking Promotional Advertising Banner Telling Me To "oh Go Watch The Fucking Lakers" And That Fake-jordon-wannabe-arrogant-no Team Player-shitlevel Of A Basketball Player Kobe Bryant Who Really Is Nothing But A Overrated Piece Of Shit

So Fucking What About The Damn La-lackers Basketball Team? Fucking Nba Organization Think That Is The Only Fucking Team. That Is Why Nfl, And Major League Baseball Is Doing So Much Fucking Better Then The Nba. If The Nba Give Equal Coverage To All Teams, Maybe The Nba Will Be A Little Bit More Exciting.
 
pimp187 said:
Both Shaq and Wilt should start over than white-whore loving nigga.

Huh? Both Shaq and Wilt had far more "white whores" than Kareem (who was one of Pam Grier's two great loves) ever did.

Shaq is a freak of nature and a force, but he's no way near the truly great b-baller, nor the skilled center, that both Kareem and Wilt were.
 
First off,I don't know who Vern Mikkelson is even if you tell me....is that Phil Mikkleson's daddy?

Me,I'm starting Wilt in the middle...then I'll put Kareem at the power foward,where he probably wanted to be all along.You know Kareem wasn't much of a rebounder,much as I liked his game.

Then of course its Elgin Baylor at the small forward.

With Magic and West in the backcourt.

Kobe will be my 6th man,with Jamal Wilks,Michael Cooper,Stormin Norman,Big Game James Worthy making up the rest of the bench.

Bob McAdoo does not belong on the team.He was just a role player with the Lakers.
Same with Connie Hawkins...

And Greedy Gail Goodrich???...a nice player,but....
 
freaky_1 said:
Thank you!

For people making the case about Kobe.

For all of Kobe's individual ability to score points. He has not proven that he makes his "TEAM" or that he is a great "teammate".

The only reason I would personally put Kobe on my "All-Laker" team would be for the sole purpose of having instant offense coming off the bench...when you bring a player off the bench to purposely focus on offense and give the team an offensive lift and he is not burdened with other responsibilities. I am not comparing the level of ability of these players..but I am just giving an example. The Pistons had Johnson as their 6th man. He was a streaky shooter much like Kobe. He came off the bench and his sole purpose was to score points and lift the offense. He could come off the bench and either be broke or on fire and give you instant points. His role was not to stack up assists, rebound, etc.. his sole purpose was to put the ball in the basket and take shots.

Kobe, as he has played his entire career, would fill that purpose well on an "All Laker team".

However, putting him on a starting 5 with Magic, Kareem, Baylor,etc would do nothing to help that team..they could already put points up... Kobe would do nothing (in the style that he currently plays) but fuck up the offensive flow of the team.

I wouldn't him want him on my starting All Laker TEAM either..if we are talking about constructing a TEAM and not just throwing together players based on individual talents.

Magic and West would be perfect. And I damn would not replace Baylor with Kobe. Baylor could do anything that Kobe did and better and didn't need to control the ball or the offense..
 
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Brother Blues said:
.You know Kareem wasn't much of a rebounder,much as I liked his game.

Playa... Kareem has over 17,000 career rebounds. He lead the league in rebounding MULTIPLE seasons and has a career average of over 11 per game... he was a great rebounder.. not like WILT..but he was a great rebounder..

the sick shit is that Baylor averaged almost 14 boards per game...which is more than rodman...but he also has the 4th highest scoring average 27.5 ...sick combo
 
Brother Blues said:
First off,I don't know who Vern Mikkelson is even if you tell me....is that Phil Mikkleson's daddy?

Me,I'm starting Wilt in the middle...then I'll put Kareem at the power foward,where he probably wanted to be all along.You know Kareem wasn't much of a rebounder,much as I liked his game.

Then of course its Elgin Baylor at the small forward.

With Magic and West in the backcourt.

Kobe will be my 6th man,with Jamal Wilks,Michael Cooper,Stormin Norman,Big Game James Worthy making up the rest of the bench.

Bob McAdoo does not belong on the team.He was just a role player with the Lakers.
Same with Connie Hawkins...

And Greedy Gail Goodrich???...a nice player,but....
That's a good team, and it makes sense. I'm glad you have an understanding of these players.
 
eewwll said:
For people making the case about Kobe.

For all of Kobe's individual ability to score points. He has not proven that he makes his "TEAM" or that he is a great "teammate".

The only reason I would personally put Kobe in my "All-Laker" team would be for the sole person of having instant offense coming off the bench...when you bring a player off the bench to purposely focus on offense and give the team an offensive lift and he is not burdened with other responsibilities. I am not comparing the level of ability of these players..but I am just giving an example. The Pistons had Johnson as their 6th man. He was a streaky shooter much like Kobe. He came off the bench and his sole purpose was to score points and lift the offense. He could come off the bench and either be broke or on fire and give you instant points. His role was not to stack up assists, rebound, etc.. his sole purpose was to put the ball in the basket and take shots.

Kobe, as he has played his entire career, would fill that purpose well on an "All Laker team".

However, putting him on a starting 5 with Magic, Kareem, Baylor,etc would do nothing to help that team..they could already points up... Kobe would do nothing (in the style that he currently plays) but fuck up the offensive flow of the team.

I wouldn't him want him on my starting All Laker TEAM either..if we are talking about constructing a TEAM and not just throwing together players based on individual talents.

Magic and West would be perfect. And I damn would not replace Baylor with Kobe. Baylor could do anything that Kobe did and better and didn't need to control the ball or the offense..
My point exactly.
 
Brother Blues said:
Me,I'm starting Wilt in the middle...then I'll put Kareem at the power foward,.

That's not fair man... you can't put Wilt at Center and Kareem at power forward..imagine going up against that shit :lol:
 
eewwll said:
Magic and West would be perfect. And I damn would not replace Baylor with Kobe. Baylor could do anything that Kobe did and better and didn't need to control the ball or the offense.

No one would replace Magic and West with Kobe, but to not rank him third (without question) among all-time LAKER guards is just plain irrational.

BTW, Bryant has shot better and dished out more assists than Baylor, though you shouldn't compare those two anyway.

Bryant has also averaged around 6 REBs and 5 ASSTs over his last 9 years. The 20-6-5 combo for a career is rare. He does more than shoot, when he has someone else to work with.
 
Frank Wilson said:
man Basically Fuck The Damn Fucking Lakers Basketball Team. I Hate The Damn La...no...la-lackers Basketball Team. Fucking Team Think They Can Have Their Entire Schedule Be The Fucking Game Of The Week Every Fucking Week On National Television. Not Only That I'm Fucking Sick And Tired Of Seeing Jack Nicholson, His Prostitutes, And His Vain Actor Friends Comming To The Game Like Some Fucking Promotional Advertising Banner Telling Me To "oh Go Watch The Fucking Lakers" And That Fake-jordon-wannabe-arrogant-no Team Player-shitlevel Of A Basketball Player Kobe Bryant Who Really Is Nothing But A Overrated Piece Of Shit

So Fucking What About The Damn La-lackers Basketball Team? Fucking Nba Organization Think That Is The Only Fucking Team. That Is Why Nfl, And Major League Baseball Is Doing So Much Fucking Better Then The Nba. If The Nba Give Equal Coverage To All Teams, Maybe The Nba Will Be A Little Bit More Exciting.
Damn, tell em why you mad son!
 
Blunt said:
No one would replace Magic and West with Kobe, but to not rank him third (without question) among all-time LAKER guards is just plain irrational.

BTW, Bryant has shot better and dished out more assists than Baylor, though you shouldn't compare those two anyway.

Bryant has also averaged around 6 REBs and 5 ASSTs over his last 9 years. The 20-6-5 combo for a career is rare. He does more than shoot, when he has someone else to work with.

I said I would have him coming off the bench as a guard. I would probably put him as third...maybe.. but I still would take a different player..because Kobe is not a good teammate. I would fill the position with a defensive specialist like Cooper..since I already have all the scoring I need with Baylor and West... I respect his scoring ability but I am not a fan of his style of playing.

If you meant..you shouldnt compare the two because Baylor was so much better I agree.. but considering that Kobe has often been listed as a small forward...and Baylor was a 6 foot 5 small forward who often played shooting guard..you can compare the two easily..
Baylor averaged 27.5 his entire career (5 more than kobe) and 13.5 rebounds per game (almost 8 more than kobe) ... but kobe only give you 1 more assist per game... so Baylor wins by a long shot in terms of total contribution.

Kobe has been a form of anemia for offensive fluidity. If the Lakers shake the team up, we will see what he does with a different squad... but he has definitely not exhibited great leadership ability...and even his scoring is a bit suspect because he went on scoring rampages against weaker teams... however..in the playoffs..when it would have been the time to take over..especially in second half..he was non-existent for the most part..not as bad as Dirk though for Dallas... but that is another discussion.
 
:hmm: :hmm:

i wasn't even gonna comment.. on this shit but yall made me....

kobe??? :confused: :lol:

I would rather have a team without him on der.. kobe does not know the meaning of how to pass the ball... kobe is a good player no doubt.. but just not on the all star team that u have listed above.. kobes style of play does not match the style of play for that laker's all time ever team..

u have alot of people that share the ball up there.. and u have rapest ass kobe the only one that doesnt know how to pass...

I aint hate'n on kobe but the dude dont know how to play TEAM BALL..

side note... Wilt at Center and Kareem at pf... :lol: I mean daym.. i would not even run to the side of the court.. that would phuck up any lay up/dunks attempts any player in the nba would have now and forever..

the thing about the lakers and Celtics is that they are 2 teams that have had historic big men in the paint..


great list doe.. but i would leave kobe ass off of it... because like football and baseball, basketball is a team game.. and kobe is not a team player..
 
ARDMORESTAR said:
:hmm: :hmm:

i wasn't even gonna comment.. on this shit but yall made me....

kobe??? :confused: :lol:

I would rather have a team without him on der.. kobe does not know the meaning of how to pass the ball... kobe is a good player no doubt.. but just not on the all star team that u have listed above.. kobes style of play does not match the style of play for that laker's all time ever team..

u have alot of people that share the ball up there.. and u have rapest ass kobe the only one that doesnt know how to pass...

I aint hate'n on kobe but the dude dont know how to play TEAM BALL..

side note... Wilt at Center and Kareem at pf... :lol: I mean daym.. i would not even run to the side of the court.. that would phuck up any lay up/dunks attempts any player in the nba would have now and forever..

the thing about the lakers and Celtics is that they are 2 teams that have had historic big men in the paint..


great list doe.. but i would leave kobe ass off of it... because like football and baseball, basketball is a team game.. and kobe is not a team player..
I hear you man. Putting him last on the list was more a wakeup shot to his fans, than where I would really place him. He is a great scorer and the Vinnie Johnson comparison was dead on. The Lakers have had great players at all positions and I'm not even a fan. It seems that most Kobe fans are not even real Lakers fans. To even suggest breaking up a backcourt of West and Magic is beyond idiotic. They have no respect for what players have contributed to this game. All they know is now. I would not start anyone over Kareem. He had game and a shot that no one has came close to perfecting and hasn't been seen since he retired, (with 38,000+ points) You gotta respect him.

Wilt was great and you can make a case to start him and if you stared him on your list, I wouldn't be mad at you. Mickellson is the only one who would come off the list, but he trailblazed the position so that's why he started on my team. It's cool to disagree though.
 
eewwll said:
I said I would have him coming off the bench as a guard. I would probably put him as third...maybe.. but I still would take a different player... because Kobe is not a good teammate.

Such a list is about ranking the best players by position. Kobe is obviously the third best guard in Laker history. "Teammate" Kobe led the Lakers to 3 straight titles (going 30-7-6 in the 2nd playoff run).

I would fill the position with a defensive specialist like Cooper..since I already have all the scoring I need with Baylor and West... I respect his scoring ability but I am not a fan of his style of playing.

Huh? Bryant has made the All-Defensive First Team as many times as Cooper did (5), and he's still only in mid-career.

If you meant..you shouldnt compare the two because Baylor was so much better I agree ...

Different eras. Different positions. Different types of players in the league.

... but considering that Kobe has often been listed as a small forward...and Baylor was a 6 foot 5 small forward who often played shooting guard..you can compare the two easily..
Baylor averaged 27.5 his entire career (5 more than kobe) and 13.5 rebounds per game (almost 8 more than kobe) ... but kobe only give you 1 more assist per game... so Baylor wins by a long shot in terms of total contribution.

Rebounding was much easier in those days as the shooting (and defense) was poorer. More rebounds available to get. Kobe is a better shooter from the Field and the Line than Baylor was. But still, these two shouldn't be compared. Compare Kobe to West, if you have to.

Kobe has been a form of anemia for offensive fluidity. If the Lakers shake the team up, we will see what he does with a different squad... but he has definitely not exhibited great leadership ability...and even his scoring is a bit suspect because he went on scoring rampages against weaker teams... however..in the playoffs..when it would have been the time to take over..especially in second half..he was non-existent for the most part..not as bad as Dirk though for Dallas... but that is another discussion.

Kobe's lifetime record is clear. He's performed consistently, year-in-and-year-out, during the regular season and during the playoffs. He's won 3 titles. He's got nothing to prove. Nitpicking his every move is truly silly and really incomprehensible, especially when there are so many other TRUE underachievers out there among the big names.

Not sure where this personal animosity comes from, unless folks simply identify more with the goofy Shaq than the so-called "golden boy." But make no mistake about it, Kobe is 100x the pure b-ball player that Shaq is.
 
freaky_1 said:
C: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
PF: Vern Mikkelsen* (The games' first Power Forward)
SF: Elgin Baylor
SG: Jerry West
PG: Magic Johnson

Bench

C: Wilt Chamberlain
C: George Mikan
C: Shaquille O'Neal
F: A.C. Green
F: James Worthy
F: Connie Hawkins* (Number retired with the Phoenix Suns)
G: Gail Goodrich
G: Kobe Bryant* (Didn't really want him on it, but he's a good scorer so he makes it.)

Coach: Pat Riley

There's my team, let the Shobe dickriding begin. :lol:
Nigga you started this thread beccuz secretly you love kobe...get off his and let him enjoy his offseason talk about something thats relevant TODAY...let it go faggot
 
You brothaz are letting your personal opinions of a Man cloud your judgement of his skills on the court. I don't fuck with Tim Duncan AT ALL!!! But i would never dispute his greatness on the court! Period. You are putting perimeter players out there that NEVER guarded anyone in their life and your knock on Kobe is that he doesn't pass? How doesn't he? He averages 5-6 assists per game on a fucking team that is full of players that couldn't make any other roster in the league. SERIOUSLY. Doesn't make his teammates better? Are you shittin me? That team is a playoff caliber team? Fuckouttahere. Study the game more before you guys start commenting.

Someone who makes his teammates better is a player who has those around him playing to the best of their abilities. If you honestly think that Smush, Luke Walton, Brian Cook, Vujacic, Kwame, Farmar and em' are really better than I'll back the fuck outta this thread. But you have to look at things for what they are.

Did Kobe do some fag shit by bringing up his teammate in the middle of a fucking interrogation about rape to the Police in Vail? Hell yeah and I don't fuck with that shit one bit! But is he THE BADDEST MUTHAFUCKA THAT LACES EM' UP RIGHT NOW? Without a doubt. Every player, coach and exec in the NBA knows it, but for some reason fools on messageboards think otherwise. You are naming guys that were great in THEIR ERA. Now if you wanna argue that they would've been much better with weight training ect.. than that's something else. But if you are talking about pure skill-set and physical abilities your on Heroin if you think that Jerry West wouldn't get outplayed by MICHAEL REDD, let alone Kobe. Jerry talks about his shit all the time about how the game has progressed and how freakishly good players have gotten. It's inevitable.

I named a few of the big men and Guards like Magic, Big O, Iceman etc.. that transcend era's because they were that great. Rebound statistics etc... are null in void because NOBODY could fucking shoot back in the 60's and 70's. There was no incentive to shoot long range shots is what I'm saying, so guys didn't attempt to develop long range shots.

Also defensively guys weren't as talented. You cold clearly see in the 80's guys became more and more gifted defensively. This cause guys like MJ to develop fadeaways etc.. to keep an advantage offensively.....Guys are sooo athletic now that it's forcing offensive players to come up with countless amounts of moves to score.

I'm kind of cheating because I've had the great honor of building with many of the games greats from The Big O on down. I dealt with Larry Bird every day in while he was coaching the Pacers and frequently now while he's the GM. This man literally told me that Johnathan Bender would be in the Hall of Fame if he played in his era (*disclaimer* most people don't know, but this kid was ridiculously talented but the team physician screwed up his knee surger after his second year and he's never recovered forcing him to retire early, but he still got about 36 million out of them and he will ALWAYS have a job in the organization).

Unfortunately for all of us who enjoy watching the game though is that injuries will become worse and worse. The shit that is in the food we eat (steroids etc..) is making athletes BIGGER and BIGGER and the shit doesn't make things easy on joints etc... Guys are pulling muscles, tearing ligaments etc.. at a ridiculous clip due to this.
 
Blunt said:
. "Teammate" Kobe led the Lakers to 3 straight titles (going 30-7-6 in the 2nd playoff run).

Could be nothing but further from the truth. You are a stat person. You like to look up stats.

Look at the 2000 NBA Finals Stats

Per game stats

Shaq

37 points 18 rebounds 4 assists

Kobe

12 points 4 rebounds 4 assists

Shaq was the leader of those teams. Kobe was apart of the supporting casts. He didn't LEAD anything..and as he began to play more and take more shots..the winning percentage of the lakers decreased. Now one could question whether this is a cause of confusing correlation with causation..but the numbers definitely correlate. Playing on a great time hid Kobe's flaws.. now they are being exposed.

Even quotes ALL three title runs... individually and collectively... Shaq had better numbers... and also factor in the first title.. Kobe hardly contributed and it had NO material effect on the outcome of the Final's series. The reality is that you could have plugged any moderately skilled 2 guard on that team and it would have been ok.

However, if you took away Shaq, that team would not have even gone to the conference finals.
Blunt said:
Huh? Bryant has made the All-Defensive First Team as many times as Cooper did (5), and he's still only in mid-career.

Like the Nash example. it is a testaments to level of play in the league than that player's individual talent level. Nash is MVP in today's league but he wouldnt even be a starting point guard in the all star game during the 80s or 90s for any conference.

Same thing on the defensive in with Kobe. No one in their right mind, despite the myths and gifting of Kobe's defensive accolades, would call Kobe as good of a defender as Michael Cooper.





Blunt said:
. He's performed consistently, year-in-and-year-out, during the regular season and during the playoffs. He's won 3 titles.

Simply is not true. All of his number decrease in the playoffs. Look at this stats..scoring, rebounding, assists, field goal percentage, free throw percentage ALL go down in the playoffs. The only thing that RISES in the playoffs are field goal attempts and turnovers.

You tend to quote stats and data. I can appreciate that. Now go review the regular season and playoff data on Kobe. Your statement is clearly erroneous.

In terms of the 3 titles... I already posted the 2000 NBA stats..that clearly showed who led those teams and there is no secret as to why Shaq walked away with 3 Finals MVP awards.

And he does have a lot to prove in terms of his legacy..or matching the proclamations of his fanboys..because without another title...he will always been seen as Shaq's sidekick.
Blunt said:
Not sure where this personal animosity comes from, unless folks simply identify more with the goofy Shaq than the so-called "golden boy." But make no mistake about it, Kobe is 100x the pure b-ball player that Shaq is.

I have no personal animosity towards Kobe. I could care less anything about his personal life or personality. I do not like his style of playing basketball. He is a selfish player who zaps the life out of a "TEAM" because of his lack of basketball IQ.

Who is talking about Shaq? I didn't mention shaq until you brought him up. We WERE talking about guards.
 
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Re: My All-Time All fakers team

got some time to kill, so:

FIRST TEAM

C: kareem abdul jabbar
F: maurice lucas
F: james worthy
G: jerry west
G: earvin johnson

SECOND UNIT

C: wilt chamberlain
F: horace grant
F: adrian dantley
G: jamaal wilkes
G: nick van exel

C: shaquille o'neal
F: sam perkins

INJURED RESERVE

F: elgin baylor
G: byron scott
G: eddie jones
 
Vern Mikkelson

:lol:

My team would be

C- Wilt
PF - Kareem (I'd have to slide him to PF...he'd still dominate)
SF - Jerry West
SG - Kobe (here comes the hate)
PG - Magic

2nd string

C/PF - Shaq (Imagine him and Wilt in at the same time abusing niggas
PF - James Worthy
SF - Elgin Baylor
SG - Michael Cooper
PG - Gail Goodrich

3rd
C - George Mikan
PF - Lamar Odom
PG - Nick Van Exel
 
To All You Bitch Ass Haters In This Tread ..i Will Only Say This..im Sorry Kobe Hurt Your Feelings..i Mean What Else Could It Be?..i Simply Dont Understand The Pure Bias Hatred Towards The The Dude!! I Hated The Detroit Pistons When I Was A Kid , But Even I Can Admit There Greatness As A Unit!! Simply Put Ask Any Gm,any Commetater,anybody Who Knows Anything About Basketball(cause Its Obvious Yall Haters Dont,only Thing Yall Know Anything About Is Stupid Jealousy,and Envy)who Is The Best Player In The N.b.a Today? They Will All Have The Same Answer ,kobe Bean Bryant.
 
Blunt said:
Huh? Both Shaq and Wilt had far more "white whores" than Kareem (who was one of Pam Grier's two great loves) ever did.
Shaq is a freak of nature and a force, but he's no way near the truly great b-baller, nor the skilled center, that both Kareem and Wilt were.
I agree that Kareem is a more skilled player, but Shaq just dominates even though it may not be pretty.
As for Shaq having dem hoes, the main difference is that he goes home to a black woman every night.
 
johnnybills said:
Nigga you started this thread beccuz secretly you love kobe...get off his and let him enjoy his offseason talk about something thats relevant TODAY...let it go faggot
Bitch please
 
PimpstarP said:
Vern Mikkelson

:lol:

My team would be

C- Wilt
PF - Kareem (I'd have to slide him to PF...he'd still dominate)
SF - Jerry West
SG - Kobe (here comes the hate)
PG - Magic

2nd string

C/PF - Shaq (Imagine him and Wilt in at the same time abusing niggas
PF - James Worthy
SF - Elgin Baylor
SG - Michael Cooper
PG - Gail Goodrich

3rd
C - George Mikan
PF - Lamar Odom
PG - Nick Van Exel
West at SF? just to put Kobe on the starting lineup? Invalid

Van Exel and Odom on an all time Lakers team? Even bigger joke.
 
LURK DAWG said:
To All You Bitch Ass Haters In This Tread ..i Will Only Say This..im Sorry Kobe Hurt Your Feelings..i Mean What Else Could It Be?..i Simply Dont Understand The Pure Bias Hatred Towards The The Dude!! I Hated The Detroit Pistons When I Was A Kid , But Even I Can Admit There Greatness As A Unit!! Simply Put Ask Any Gm,any Commetater,anybody Who Knows Anything About Basketball(cause Its Obvious Yall Haters Dont,only Thing Yall Know Anything About Is Stupid Jealousy,and Envy)who Is The Best Player In The N.b.a Today? They Will All Have The Same Answer ,kobe Bean Bryant.
First off you should'v learned in grammar school that you don't have to capitalize ever first letter in a word. Second you misused the term Hater. My list showed you Kobe man crushers where he would rank in my view. Just because you beat off to his posters don't mean he's an all time great. He's not the best player in the history of his team. For all your dickriding on him, he still can't start on the all time team, period. West and Magic is a deadly backcourt and you can't bump either one for him.

You seem to have taken this very personally, to call people you never met and never will meet bitches because they express an opinion that doesn't flow with your dickriding. Get a life.

And log off my dick
 
eewwll said:
For people making the case about Kobe.

For all of Kobe's individual ability to score points. He has not proven that he makes his "TEAM" or that he is a great "teammate".

The only reason I would personally put Kobe on my "All-Laker" team would be for the sole purpose of having instant offense coming off the bench...when you bring a player off the bench to purposely focus on offense and give the team an offensive lift and he is not burdened with other responsibilities. I am not comparing the level of ability of these players..but I am just giving an example. The Pistons had Johnson as their 6th man. He was a streaky shooter much like Kobe. He came off the bench and his sole purpose was to score points and lift the offense. He could come off the bench and either be broke or on fire and give you instant points. His role was not to stack up assists, rebound, etc.. his sole purpose was to put the ball in the basket and take shots.

Kobe, as he has played his entire career, would fill that purpose well on an "All Laker team".

However, putting him on a starting 5 with Magic, Kareem, Baylor,etc would do nothing to help that team..they could already put points up... Kobe would do nothing (in the style that he currently plays) but fuck up the offensive flow of the team.

I wouldn't him want him on my starting All Laker TEAM either..if we are talking about constructing a TEAM and not just throwing together players based on individual talents.

Magic and West would be perfect. And I damn would not replace Baylor with Kobe. Baylor could do anything that Kobe did and better and didn't need to control the ball or the offense..


FINITO.KHALAS
you just nailed it and no need for anyone to continue with som useless arguments on the subject
 
freaky_1 said:
West at SF? just to put Kobe on the starting lineup? Invalid

Van Exel and Odom on an all time Lakers team? Even bigger joke.
My list...not yours...Any Laker fan could understand why I got nick the quick on my list...it aint like he's first string...u'd be pressed to find a Laker pg that i didn't list thats a whole lot better than how nick was playin on the Lakers. Same goes for Odom...lets not talk about jokes mr vern mikkelson. Dude never averaged more ppg than Lamar Odom has this year. Never had more RPG than Odom has this year. And has only tied Odom in assists...this year...i havent even gone to Odoms past seasons...oh and Vern led the nba in personal fouls for 3 str8 seasons...and he holds the tech record. As for fittin in Kobe...no I don't have to fit him in nowhere. I believe thats the most deadly lineup to win...too many weapons. Magic with his court vision giving everyone the ball where they need it. Kobe and could score at will...whenever he has trouble shootin...magic could get him open shots and high percentage shots on the fast break. And Jerry West could be the shooter if Kobe goes cold and vice versa. Whats your argument b. I know u hate Kobe an all but it aint that serious.
eewwll said:
Could be nothing but further from the truth. You are a stat person. You like to look up stats.

Look at the 2000 NBA Finals Stats

Per game stats

Shaq

37 points 18 rebounds 4 assists

Kobe

12 points 4 rebounds 4 assists

Shaq was the leader of those teams. Kobe was apart of the supporting casts. He didn't LEAD anything..and as he began to play more and take more shots..the winning percentage of the lakers decreased. Now one could question whether this is a cause of confusing correlation with causation..but the numbers definitely correlate. Playing on a great time hid Kobe's flaws.. now they are being exposed.

Even quotes ALL three title runs... individually and collectively... Shaq had better numbers... and also factor in the first title.. Kobe hardly contributed and it had NO material effect on the outcome of the Final's series. The reality is that you could have plugged any moderately skilled 2 guard on that team and it would have been ok.

However, if you took away Shaq, that team would not have even gone to the conference finals.


Like the Nash example. it is a testaments to level of play in the league than that player's individual talent level. Nash is MVP in today's league but he wouldnt even be a starting point guard in the all star game during the 80s or 90s for any conference.

Same thing on the defensive in with Kobe. No one in their right mind, despite the myths and gifting of Kobe's defensive accolades, would call Kobe as good of a defender as Michael Cooper.







Simply is not true. All of his number decrease in the playoffs. Look at this stats..scoring, rebounding, assists, field goal percentage, free throw percentage ALL go down in the playoffs. The only thing that RISES in the playoffs are field goal attempts and turnovers.

You tend to quote stats and data. I can appreciate that. Now go review the regular season and playoff data on Kobe. Your statement is clearly erroneous.

In terms of the 3 titles... I already posted the 2000 NBA stats..that clearly showed who led those teams and there is no secret as to why Shaq walked away with 3 Finals MVP awards.

And he does have a lot to prove in terms of his legacy..or matching the proclamations of his fanboys..because without another title...he will always been seen as Shaq's sidekick.


I have no personal animosity towards Kobe. I could care less anything about his personal life or personality. I do not like his style of playing basketball. He is a selfish player who zaps the life out of a "TEAM" because of his lack of basketball IQ.

Who is talking about Shaq? I didn't mention shaq until you brought him up. We WERE talking about guards.
I love how people always put up the first championship numbers and claim that as the summary of the entire 3peat instead of the second 2, where the numbers were closer to Shaqs. Thats all i gotta say about that issue.
 
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PimpstarP said:
My list...not yours...Any Laker fan could understand why I got nick the quick on my list...it aint like he's first string...u'd be pressed to find a Laker pg that i didn't list thats a whole lot better than how nick was playin on the Lakers. Same goes for Odom...lets not talk about jokes mr vern mikkelson. Dude never averaged more ppg than Lamar Odom has this year. Never had more RPG than Odom has this year. And has only tied Odom in assists...this year...i havent even gone to Odoms past seasons...oh and Vern led the nba in personal fouls for 3 str8 seasons...and he holds the tech record. As for fittin in Kobe...no I don't have to fit him in nowhere. I believe thats the most deadly lineup to win...too many weapons. Magic with his court vision giving everyone the ball where they need it. Kobe and could score at will...whenever he has trouble shootin...magic could get him open shots and high percentage shots on the fast break. And Jerry West could be the shooter if Kobe goes cold and vice versa. Whats your argument b. I know u hate Kobe an all but it aint that serious.I love how people always put up the first championship numbers and claim that as the summary of the entire 3peat instead of the second 2, where the numbers were closer to Shaqs. Thats all i gotta say about that issue.
Hey Vern Mikkelson, was the games first PF. I didn't say he was better, justthat he was a trailblazer. There have been numerous PG's that could bump Van Exel out the lineup, and I like Van Exel, ever since Cincy. Kobe is Vinnie Johnson. The backcourt of West and Magic is more deadly than any lineup with Kobe in it. My opinion. West is Mr. Clutch and the symbol of the NBA, that alone trumps mr. shoot a bunch. Kobe is not the best player in the history of his team, let alone the greats of all time. Some of you Laker fans (not saying you) have no clue of all the great players in the Laker organization, just on the Kobe bandwagon.

Reason why people can make arguments of Jordan being amongst the greats of all time, is because he was the greatest in the history of his team. Like Magic, like Bird, like Dr. J and the Nets. Like George Gervin in San Antonio. To be in the greats of all time conversation, you gotta be better than the greats in your teams. That's why I made this thread, to give perspective to bandwagon Laker fans and Kobe dickriders.

But what do I know, I'm a hater.
 
PimpstarP said:
I love how people always put up the first championship numbers and claim that as the summary of the entire 3peat instead of the second 2, where the numbers were closer to Shaqs. Thats all i gotta say about that issue.

Individually in every series and collectively Shaq's numbers trumped Kobe..not to mention he was the dominant force in the middle that anchored the entire offense. Take Kobe off that team and have him put up inconsequential and they don't skip a beat (2000 is a testament to that).

The first finals' stats not only go to show the huge range in output...but goes on to show that the Lakers..even with Kobe being a non-factor like in the 2000 Finals, were a good enough team to win a title solely on the back of Shaq.

That message was a direct response to the myth that Kobe LED those teams. That was the claim made. He was apart of the supporting cast.
 
eewwll said:
Individually in every series and collectively Shaq's numbers trumped Kobe..not to mention he was the dominant force in the middle that anchored the entire offense. Take Kobe off that team and have him put up inconsequential and they don't skip a beat (2000 is a testament to that).

The first finals' stats not only go to show the huge range in output...but goes on to show that the Lakers..even with Kobe being a non-factor like in the 2000 Finals, were a good enough team to win a title solely on the back of Shaq.

That message was a direct response to the myth that Kobe LED those teams. That was the claim made. He was apart of the supporting cast.
Yep
 
freaky_1 said:
Please. Kareem's shot was indefensible.

Freak. It took Kareem 20 years to break a record Wilt made in 13. Kareem dragged his career on long past his prime to break the record. Wilt was alot more indefensible than Kareem ever was. I'd give Kareem the nod as a Laker because he did more for the Lakers but overall? Hell nah.
 
starters
magic
(goat pg, clearly)
kobe
(west is the original kobe as far as "gunning" many old head have told me his refusal to defer to elgin & wilt. 9 finals appearances, 1 title...plus he played no defense, you can have him)
elgin
(nipsy's the second best pure scorer in laker history)
mcadoo
(maybe he didnt have his absolute best years in LA, but this is one spot, amazingly the lakers aren't elite/deep at)
kareem
(alltime leading scorer, most dominant player from highschool through the pros. if he had magic's charisma, he'd get the respect he deserves)

bench
shaq
big game james
logo
rob horry
gail goods
coop
mikan


only weakness on this team is defense at the pg. a small guard would have a chance to get off, but he'd get killed on defense. his ass would be in the post, every possession.
 
^^^

Horry is not a great player but damn he hits some big shots when they count...I think you were the only person to have him... but I can respect that choice...mofo is deadly on game winning possessions in the playoffs..
 
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