Make a Contribution to Remove NSFW Ads

Muhammad Ali vs. Lenox Lewis

Muhammad Ali vs. Lennox Lewis

  • Ali

    Votes: 138 90.2%

  • Lewis

    Votes: 12 7.8%

  • Not Sure

    Votes: 3 2.0%
  • Total voters
    153
  • Poll closed .
DoncarloNY said:
Ali Too Small, He Fought At 208 Usually. He Won Olympics At 178.lennox To Big, A Good Big Man Always Beats A Good Little Man. As Far As The Greatest Monicker, He Called Himself That,being From The Hood U Know U Get Ur Name From Other Cats. If He Was The Greatest For Winning Title 3 Times,what Is Holyfield Who Won It More Than That. Hell Watch The Sonny Liston Tape,the Phantom Punch Was Just That, He Never Hit Liston But Liston Layed Down. How A Guy That Doesnt Have A 1 Punch Ko Knock Out A Bull Like Liston With A Breeze, Lewis Beats Him,holyfield Gives Him Fits And Tyson Woulda Broke His Arms With That Rope A Dope Shit..
Click to expand...

First of all, Ali beat Liston's ass the year before too. Did you see Liston's face afte that fight? Second of all, Ali didn't fight at 208. he fought at between 215-220. check your stats playa. Thirdly, ali was the greatest by the time they took his belt. He would've worn that hat even if he had never fought again. Big man/little man? would you call George Foreman a little man? Ali knocked his big ass out. and oh, by the way, ask karl mildenberg if Ali has a one punch KO punch. ali knocked his ass out backin' up. Ali would have beaten Tyson's little ass to death.
 
Id give it to Ali everytime with the exception to Lewis when he fought Rahman the 2nd time. I'd pay a few g's to see that fight. I still give the edge to Ali but Lewis was in the most impressive form I've seen any modern heavyweight fighter in. When all is said and done, Lewis on HGH doesn't have the power of a prime Foreman. If Ali can rock with a broken jaw there's not really any hope of Lewis KOing him. Lewis on the other hand does not have a jaw of stone.

I don't think Lewis could beat Liston either.
 
nick177th said:
First of all, Ali beat Liston's ass the year before too. Did you see Liston's face afte that fight? Second of all, Ali didn't fight at 208. he fought at between 215-220. check your stats playa. Thirdly, ali was the greatest by the time they took his belt. He would've worn that hat even if he had never fought again. Big man/little man? would you call George Foreman a little man? Ali knocked his big ass out. and oh, by the way, ask karl mildenberg if Ali has a one punch KO punch. ali knocked his ass out backin' up. Ali would have beaten Tyson's little ass to death.
Click to expand...
^^^^^^^^^ Cosigned for truth
 
nick177th said:
Not questioning your boxing knowledge Bruh but, when did Jimmy Ellis beat George Foreman? Foreman didn't turn pro until somewhere around '69 or '70. he won the gold in the '68 Olympics in Mexico City. Ellis got KO'd by Frazier in the box off to name a new champ after they took Ali's title. I'm just curious as to when they fought. As far as I know, Foreman was undefeated when he and Ali fought in '75.
Click to expand...

not jimmy ellis my dude...jimmy young....the dude who beat george foreman in 1977 and sent him into the 10 yr retirement...who easily defeated ron lyle twice...and gave ali and kenny norton hard fights that he should have won and arguably beat earnie shavers in the rematch even though it was a draw (first fight shavers knocked him cold though)..gerry cooney stopped him too but couldnt even knock him down although he gave him a sick ass cut though...he was a tough fighter
 
patscorpio said:
not jimmy ellis my dude...jimmy young....the dude who beat george foreman in 1977 and sent him into the 10 yr retirement...who easily defeated ron lyle twice...and gave ali and kenny norton hard fights that he should have won and arguably beat earnie shavers in the rematch even though it was a draw (first fight shavers knocked him cold though)..gerry cooney stopped him too but couldnt even knock him down although he gave him a sick ass cut though...he was a tough fighter
Click to expand...

someone brought it to my attention earlier. my bad. I stand corrected again. Jimmy Young was alright. he wasn't on the scene that long though. Big George was a shell of himself after Ali knocked him out. Ali could get in your head and stay there. he was a master of that shit. I truly believe he psyched Liston out in the first fight. Liston was so angry, he tried to come out and take Ali's head off. When he saw he couldn't do that, he lost his confidence and just gave up after the sixth.
 
Diamels said:
I am not sure on this one. The thing about it was the better you were the better Lewis got...
Click to expand...

Lewis couldn't beat Ali if he HAD to playa. He's too slow. He has to set you up for a punch. he telegraphs that shit from a mile away. Ali would've danced away before he even loaded up. Look at some VINTAGE Ali. Not that stuff when he got older.
 
The fact that people are talking about Ali's power...power in general lets me know that they are no students of boxing. What made Ali great was 1st his intelligence and 2nd his speed. Ali was not even in the top five in power in his generation or anyone else's. What made Ali great is that once he figured how to pick you apart it was a rap. He would not go toe to toe with Lewis, thats stupid. Lewis conditioning was always suspect so he would pitter patter his to death. BUT if Ali knew he had more power, he would swing to the fences hence knocking people out spectacularly.

Ali is cold because he beat you before you ever got into the ring.

Oh and by the way, Evander would have given Ali fits...Holyfield in his prime knew no giving in. A person who is fearless is always a danger.
 
nick177th said:
First of all, Ali beat Liston's ass the year before too. Did you see Liston's face afte that fight? Second of all, Ali didn't fight at 208. he fought at between 215-220. check your stats playa. Thirdly, ali was the greatest by the time they took his belt. He would've worn that hat even if he had never fought again. Big man/little man? would you call George Foreman a little man? Ali knocked his big ass out. and oh, by the way, ask karl mildenberg if Ali has a one punch KO punch. ali knocked his ass out backin' up. Ali would have beaten Tyson's little ass to death.
Click to expand...

ali.jpg
 
If you look at generally all sports, over time athletes have got better, due to past experience of past athletes, better training schedules etc.The hundred metres is run faster now than it was 30 years ago, long jump record is further now than 30 years ago, weight lifting record is heavier now than it was 30 years ago...I would therefore argue that boxers are stronger and faster than they were 30 years ago, so in answer to your question I would have to conclude that both Mike Tyson in his prime and Lennox Lewis would have beaten Muhamad Ali.
Ali was great in his time but these are different times.
 
chillwillwonka said:
The fact that people are talking about Ali's power...power in general lets me know that they are no students of boxing. What made Ali great was 1st his intelligence and 2nd his speed. Ali was not even in the top five in power in his generation or anyone else's. What made Ali great is that once he figured how to pick you apart it was a rap. He would not go toe to toe with Lewis, thats stupid. Lewis conditioning was always suspect so he would pitter patter his to death. BUT if Ali knew he had more power, he would swing to the fences hence knocking people out spectacularly.

Ali is cold because he beat you before you ever got into the ring.

Oh and by the way, Evander would have given Ali fits...Holyfield in his prime knew no giving in. A person who is fearless is always a danger.
Click to expand...

CWW, Holyfield was too little to challenge Ali in his prime. Ali would've TKO'd him. he would've cut him up. Evander may have kept coming. Right up until the ref stop the fight for cuts. And on the fearless note, how many fearles opponents did Ali send packing? As a matter of fact, people FEARED for Ali's life twice in his career. The first Liston fight and the Foreman fight. He put the "Bear" in hibernation, and settled all that rumblin' in the jungle.
 
charlie dark said:
If you look at generally all sports, over time athletes have got better, due to past experience of past athletes, better training schedules etc.The hundred metres is run faster now than it was 30 years ago, long jump record is further now than 30 years ago, weight lifting record is heavier now than it was 30 years ago...I would therefore argue that boxers are stronger and faster than they were 30 years ago, so in answer to your question I would have to conclude that both Mike Tyson in his prime and Lennox Lewis would have beaten Muhamad Ali.
Ali was great in his time but these are different times.
Click to expand...


Young Brother, let me tell you something. Ali's talents and skills trancends time. No fighter before nor since could beat Ali in his prime. That scientific and statistical stuff you speak of is great and probably holds true for mere mortals. Ali is a God in the ring. You look at Ali against any opponent before they took his belt. What you were seeing was not a training regiment or anything at all to do with strength. Ali was pure talent. Few men have ever come close to having his skill in the ring. VERY FEW. You aske anyone on this board or anyone you know that knows the "sweet science" and they will tell you that Ali (in his prime) could fight right now and beat any fighter alive. No doubt about it. No man before or since could match Ali's footwork, speed of punches or accuracy of punches. he had one of the best chins ever. that left hook Joe Frazier hit him with in the first fight would've knocked out a horse. Ali got right up off the canvas and continued the fight. I respect your opinion. everybody is entitled to one but you are DEAD WRONG on this one.
 
nick177th said:
Young Brother, let me tell you something. Ali's talents and skills trancends time. No fighter before nor since could beat Ali in his prime. That scientific and statistical stuff you speak of is great and probably holds true for mere mortals. Ali is a God in the ring. You look at Ali against any opponent before they took his belt. What you were seeing was not a training regiment or anything at all to do with strength. Ali was pure talent. Few men have ever come close to having his skill in the ring. VERY FEW. You aske anyone on this board or anyone you know that knows the "sweet science" and they will tell you that Ali (in his prime) could fight right now and beat any fighter alive. No doubt about it. No man before or since could match Ali's footwork, speed of punches or accuracy of punches. he had one of the best chins ever. that left hook Joe Frazier hit him with in the first fight would've knocked out a horse. Ali got right up off the canvas and continued the fight. I respect your opinion. everybody is entitled to one but you are DEAD WRONG on this one.
Click to expand...

An passionate defense, but if we agree that we can not prove the case one way or another, then we are left with no other choice other than to review the case rationally.
Man is bigger stronger healthier fitter than he was 30 years ago, so the laws of probability would suggest that the odds would be stacked in favour of a modern heavyweight great.
No matter how great you are anyone can get knocked out.

I'm guessing your not gonna agree with me on this one but that's cool.
 
charlie dark said:
If you look at generally all sports, over time athletes have got better, due to past experience of past athletes, better training schedules etc.The hundred metres is run faster now than it was 30 years ago, long jump record is further now than 30 years ago, weight lifting record is heavier now than it was 30 years ago...I would therefore argue that boxers are stronger and faster than they were 30 years ago, so in answer to your question I would have to conclude that both Mike Tyson in his prime and Lennox Lewis would have beaten Muhamad Ali.
Ali was great in his time but these are different times.
Click to expand...

Well, how was it then that old ass George Foreman and Larry Holmes went 12 rounds with Holyfield?

Ali knocked Foreman out in his prime.

Steroid boy (Evander) beat Mike Tyson, but couldn't knock out the "Grill master?"

Get the fuck outta here.

Ninjas are faster and maybe, maybe stronger but they are definitely much more bitchmade.

All this training and medical/nutritional advances and pussy ass bitches are still using roids, greenies and HGH?

Back in the day athletes ran on Pussy and beer and still put up numbers that can't be fucked with.
 
Which Ali?, speedy conterpunching Ali, or rope-a-dope punch yourself out Ali.
 
charlie dark said:
An passionate defense, but if we agree that we can not prove the case one way or another, then we are left with no other choice other than to review the case rationally.
Man is bigger stronger healthier fitter than he was 30 years ago, so the laws of probability would suggest that the odds would be stacked in favour of a modern heavyweight great.
No matter how great you are anyone can get knocked out.

I'm guessing your not gonna agree with me on this one but that's cool.
Click to expand...

If you took Ali and gave him the same technological advances in sports that Lenox had in terms of supplements and whatnot...he'd win.
If you took Lenox and trained him the the way fighters were trained in the '60's and '70's...Ali would still win.

Ali was just a better fighter.
 
DoncarloNY said:
Ali Too Small, He Fought At 208 Usually. He Won Olympics At 178.lennox To Big, A Good Big Man Always Beats A Good Little Man. As Far As The Greatest Monicker, He Called Himself That,being From The Hood U Know U Get Ur Name From Other Cats. If He Was The Greatest For Winning Title 3 Times,what Is Holyfield Who Won It More Than That. Hell Watch The Sonny Liston Tape,the Phantom Punch Was Just That, He Never Hit Liston But Liston Layed Down. How A Guy That Doesnt Have A 1 Punch Ko Knock Out A Bull Like Liston With A Breeze, Lewis Beats Him,holyfield Gives Him Fits And Tyson Woulda Broke His Arms With That Rope A Dope Shit..
Click to expand...

George Foreman fought at 235.
 
Brother Blues said:
Patterson was an Uncle Tom Punk...and Lewis would have knocked his weak ass out...but you can certainly add Jimmy Young to that list.
He was a pitty-patter who never knocked anyone out,but he was a defensive wiz who once beat George Foreman.
Click to expand...

Patterson was an uncle tom punk but he could fight and had knockout power in both hands. He would probably be too small for Lennox. Slippery cats like Jimmy Young always gave Lennox trouble.
 
Brother Blues said:
We are talking prime here....and a prime Ali is not beatable by anyone.

The prime Ali had middleweight speed at six-three,two twenty...
Also was under-estimated was his chin,as in his later years after his speed had left he took some hard shots from some true heavy hitters.So ever if he had gotten hit...it would not have mattered.

He would have sliced and diced a prime Holyfeild,a prime Foreman,a prime Lewis...and any of these current Russians he would have made look stupid.
Click to expand...

:yes: Co muthafuckin sign
 
Brother Blues said:
I didn't say Jimmy Ellis beat Foreman...but Jimmy YOUNG did.After he fought Ali..as Foreman will admit he went a little nuts.Ali took his manhood...Foreman trying regain it,even fought FIVE guys in one night!!
In 77,he lost to Jimmy Young in a 12 round dec...Young could not hurt anyone,but could make you miss and kept smacking George.
Click to expand...

When Ali was old Jimmy Young was robbed when they fought. It was the fight before Ali lost to Leon Spinks
 
LordSinister said:
Well, how was it then that old ass George Foreman and Larry Holmes went 12 rounds with Holyfield?

Ali knocked Foreman out in his prime.

Steroid boy (Evander) beat Mike Tyson, but couldn't knock out the "Grill master?"

Get the fuck outta here.

Ninjas are faster and maybe, maybe stronger but they are definitely much more bitchmade.

All this training and medical/nutritional advances and pussy ass bitches are still using roids, greenies and HGH?

Back in the day athletes ran on Pussy and beer and still put up numbers that can't be fucked with.
Click to expand...

Just because you can find exceptions to the rule doesn't mean the rule is invalid.
There are many factors that can determine the result of a fight and not all of them quantifiable.
So ignoring all that can't be quantified, if the fastest man in the world is faster than he was 30 years ago why not the best heavyweight in the world better than he was 30 years ago?
You'd have to define 'bitchmade', because I feel that boxing is the one sport you don't get many people you could categorize as a bitch, just because it's the one sport where you can't hide, it's as real as you can get.
 
charlie dark said:
If you look at generally all sports, over time athletes have got better, due to past experience of past athletes, better training schedules etc.The hundred metres is run faster now than it was 30 years ago, long jump record is further now than 30 years ago, weight lifting record is heavier now than it was 30 years ago...I would therefore argue that boxers are stronger and faster than they were 30 years ago, so in answer to your question I would have to conclude that both Mike Tyson in his prime and Lennox Lewis would have beaten Muhamad Ali.
Ali was great in his time but these are different times.
Click to expand...

I think that is true of most sports except this one. I think that athletes get bigger but the art and style of boxing has remained the same forever. When Ali got old and foot slow he still had great hand speed and look eerily like Jack Johnson who faught 60 years before. Mike Tyson fought just like Floyd Patterson. Ray Leonard fought like Ray Robinson. The only real innovator was Ali, you never saw a fighter before him, no less a heavyweight run backwards the whole fight while dodging punches and landing jabs, right crosses and a sneakingly powerful half left hook half uppercut. These heavyweights today are worse than the ones in the 60s and 70s. Size would be the only difference here and because the weight classes are no different heavy weight is the only class where that would matter.
 
Brother Blues said:
I didn't say Jimmy Ellis beat Foreman...but Jimmy YOUNG did.After he fought Ali..as Foreman will admit he went a little nuts.Ali took his manhood...Foreman trying regain it,even fought FIVE guys in one night!!
In 77,he lost to Jimmy Young in a 12 round dec...Young could not hurt anyone,but could make you miss and kept smacking George.
Click to expand...

Although Jimmy Young didn't have power, he knocked down Foreman.
 
Originally Posted by charlie dark
If you look at generally all sports, over time athletes have got better, due to past experience of past athletes, better training schedules etc.The hundred metres is run faster now than it was 30 years ago, long jump record is further now than 30 years ago, weight lifting record is heavier now than it was 30 years ago...I would therefore argue that boxers are stronger and faster than they were 30 years ago, so in answer to your question I would have to conclude that both Mike Tyson in his prime and Lennox Lewis would have beaten Muhamad Ali.
Ali was great in his time but these are different times.
Click to expand...

Big Philly said:
I think that is true of most sports except this one. I think that athletes get bigger but the art and style of boxing has remained the same forever. When Ali got old and foot slow he still had great hand speed and look eerily like Jack Johnson who faught 60 years before. Mike Tyson fought just like Floyd Patterson. Ray Leonard fought like Ray Robinson. The only real innovator was Ali, you never saw a fighter before him, no less a heavyweight run backwards the whole fight while dodging punches and landing jabs, right crosses and a sneakingly powerful half left hook half uppercut. These heavyweights today are worse than the ones in the 60s and 70s. Size would be the only difference here and because the weight classes are no different heavy weight is the only class where that would matter.
Click to expand...


I'd have to agree on some level about today's athletes and at the same time recognize that boxing styles have a lot to do with it. No one today would argue whether Joe Louis could beat Tyson. Louis fought at what ...195lbs. He'd gotten killed. Jack Johnson fought at 210-225 and was 6'1.5". Lewis fought at about 20-25lbs heavier than Ali in their primes ...and was more muscular. It would have been interesting.
 
charlie dark said:
An passionate defense, but if we agree that we can not prove the case one way or another, then we are left with no other choice other than to review the case rationally.
Man is bigger stronger healthier fitter than he was 30 years ago, so the laws of probability would suggest that the odds would be stacked in favour of a modern heavyweight great.
No matter how great you are anyone can get knocked out.

I'm guessing your not gonna agree with me on this one but that's cool.
Click to expand...

my man, you talkin' like a scientist here. if we have to play with numbers, i can do that too. First of all, I'll ask you to look up the poster of Ali when he knocked out Liston the second time. You know, the one when Ali is saying "get up chump". Look at his physique. I challenge you to show me one picture of Lennox Lewis when he was that "fit" as you put it. Ali was a specimen playa. Lennox Lewis in his prime was never that fit. And as far as today's fighters go, you show me one fighter, just one, that was more fit then Ali in his prime or George Foreman in his prime. These guys weren't just fit, they were chiseled man. Look at Kenny Norton in his prime. lennox Lewis was "cut" (somewhat). Mike Tyson was chiseled, and Evander. Who else? If you could clone a boxer and train one old school and one new school, the new school fighter may win. Where I'm gonna kill your theory is the fact that once again, nobody, and I mean nobody has or had Ali's skills. That wasn't taught to him or shot into him with an injection. He was born with that. You see, the sweet thing about boxing is, when you get a in the ring, it's man on man. nothing else. I could train Ali and Lou Duva could train an average opponent for Ali and Ali would whoop his ass. All that high speed training that Lennox got could never give him a chin. Could never make him fast, and could never give him Ali's foot speed. Lennox had no chin man. Can we agree on that? And why you bullshittin' Lennox heart was in question to me. Now that's subjective but I'm entitled to my opinion. Now, the chin thing, that's a fact. Some things you can't teach or train into someone. Now, let's try this angle, you tell ME where you think that Lewis had an advantage over Ali. And I don't mean the tale of the tape. I'll await you rebuttal. LOL! I love this shit.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

parisian
Every M.O.P. song ranked
2
Replies
42
Views
1K
Nonfiction
Nonfiction
DC_Dude
The Black Panthers Cubs: When the Revolution Never Comes
Replies
9
Views
922
DC_Dude
DC_Dude
blackras9
Muhammad Ali...the Greatest of All Time...Dead at 74
Replies
4
Views
168
ugk
ugk
ORIGINAL NATION
Ali dead at 74
Replies
0
Views
112
ORIGINAL NATION
ORIGINAL NATION
playahaitian
Music Debate: All 285 Jay-Z Songs, Ranked From Worst to Best
Replies
16
Views
792
Nonfiction
Nonfiction
Back
Top